 OK, good afternoon, everyone. I hope you all had a chance to grab some afternoon tea. And welcome to our session on learning from Indigenous engagement. Before we begin, I'd just like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the beautiful land upon which we meet, the Nanamal people, and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging. I'd also like to extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people joining us today, both in person and online as well. My name's Rachel Vavra. I'll be your facilitator for today's session. And I am a Torres Strait Islander woman with family heritage from Dunley Island, Stephen Island, and the Saibai Islands in the Torres Strait Islands. I work at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in the New Colombo Plan Secretariat alumni team. Last year in Darwin, our then secretary, Francis Adamson, launched our Indigenous Diplomacy Agenda to provide an approach to Indigenous Australia, a systematic place within our overseas engagement, and to more effectively advance the interests of Indigenous people in Australia and overseas. Her keynote address during that launch highlighted that Australia's international diplomacy is increasingly shaped by Indigenous cultures and people. And we must continue to build Indigenous culture, Indigenous Australia, into our diplomacy. Its people, its culture, its languages, and its history. Today we are joined by a distinguished panel of speakers, many who have traveled far and wide to be here today, to share their epistemological and lived insights on learning from Indigenous engagement and how we can champion and draw on the wealth of knowledge, systems of learning, and practices of engagement from our first-nation Australians. I'd now like to invite our panel up to the stage. Great, so our panel today is made up of... We have some online participants and also in-person participants, as you can see. So firstly, joining us online today, we have Mrs. Joy Balcanaway. And Joy works as a researcher and senior lecturer in Aboriginal Studies at Child Darwin University. Joy has 20 years of Youngu Health professional experience. We also have joining us online is Mr. Garawa. Garawa is a researcher and senior lecturer in Aboriginal Studies at Child Darwin University as well. And both Garawa and Joy work closely with CDU's Northern Institute researchers, as well as Youngu teachers providing guidance, cultural authority, and education. We also have Mr. Willie Wignerth, who's traveled all the way from Thursday Island in the Torres Strait to be here today. Willie is an acknowledged elder and leader in his tribe. With lifelong ecological knowledge and native science, Willie has over 30 years' experience working in Australian law and order at state, national, and international level. Next, we have Mr. Jordan Ivy, and I'm sure many of you know Jordan. Jordan was a New Colombo Plan scholar to Fiji in 2019. And he also undertook an internship to the Philippines through Child Darwin University. Jordan was also our 2019 Indigenous Alumni Ambassador. Mr. Ivy holds a Bachelor Degree of Marine Science and Management, and since graduating, Jordan has been a Research Assistant and Indigenous Engagement Officer on various coral lava restorations projects on the Great Barrier Reef. And he currently works with the Australian Institute of Marine Science as the Indigenous Training and Capacity Building Officer. Next, we have Ms. Lily Kennedy, and Lily is a 2020 scholar and a passionate member of the NCP community. With an undergraduate degree in public relations, she's worked in a variety of roles across Brisbane, London, and New York. In 2015, Lily undertook an Indigenous Cultural Immersion Program in the APY lands in South Australia. And last but not least, we have Mr. Greg Williams, and Greg is the coordinator of the Master of Public Policy in the Northern Institute, and he also works in the College of Indigenous Future Education and Arts at CDU. And Greg has worked as a lecturer for over 20 years, both in vocational education and training and higher education as well. Now, I'd like to begin this session today by handing over to our first nation elders from Yongu and the Torres Strait, Joy, Gara, and Willie, to show us first hand how they conduct cultural diplomacy. So Willie, I'm gonna hand it over to you now to begin. Thank you. I'm a Kapu Batainga, Nithuman Pamurath. Good afternoon to all of you. Ngau Nel Niaungu. My name is Niaungu. Ngau Markai Nel is Willie Wigness. My English name is Willie Wigness. Ngai Kanamuri. I come from a clan of Kanamuri. Ngau Mabaygal Kaurarayk. A tribe of Kaurarayk. Ngau Lag, Kedatarapa, Kaewalagal. My traditional boundary and country region is called Kaewalagal. It's a pleasure to stand here and talk to all of you. When I look into the crowd, I'm talking to a nation of people. Nation of beautiful people here, intelligent people. I read some of your bios. Wow. The amount of subjects you got, three or four, I said, wow, why shouldn't I have that when I was in the 60s? So my friends, Gaurah and Joy, from Yulu country, respect from Yulu as well, respect to my panels, from where they come from, respect to everyone. Diplomacy, what is diplomacy? Cultural diplomacy, what is that? That's my traditional title, butu au gar kuik, from a governance, a traditional setting. Is that diplomacy? A diplomacy is you've already learned through life, diplomacy, each and every one of you changes to one another. Yet, your communication with one another to find a very principal, the same. When I go on to Yulu country, that diplomacy, like what we've done here in the same facility, ANU, we had to look for that same very principal. But when I meet Joy and Gaurah and the others, we join straight away because our principal was the same. Our governance was the same. Our mohiti was the same. In the Torres Strait, we head hunters. That's just it, we take heads, regardless. Modern days, like me and now, how do I practice that in a modern setting? You can't, honestly. So I had to adapt because of the laws, L-A, L-O-R-E, and the rules of laws, L-A-W, they don't see eye to eye. So I had to balance. My old people, elder said, we need to change if you want to survive. So we did that, basically that. To survive, we need to change. But we kept the principal alive. My university is not like this, what you guys are going through. Our teaching, our university is out there. It's nature. Our laws is governed by nature. Our setting is governed by nature. The four elements, the four winds, the seasons, how the animal reacts, the settings of the suns, the moons, that's our university. Never got the chance to go to places like this. Gaura enjoys the same, but cultural diplomacy, a window into First Nation people's governance. We have it here in Australia itself. Majority of Australians don't know we have it. It's only through sessions like this. We have moaties that we follow. My moaties, the Hamid Shah, and the dugong. We are patriarchal. My tribe is patriarchal. It's not matriarchal, but I had to balance that. We had to change in this world as well. Balance the woman side with the man side. And we've perfected it. We're still here. We pushed our woman into the world today as well. Go get education, build yourself up. Go be a CEO, go be a manager, go further down south. But when you come home, don't forget, your other foot is in the cultural arena as well. You gotta respect that. You're positioning. Positioning of everybody within the cultural diplomacy is very sensitive. It puts you in a different degree. Like for instance, my title, Gaurav and Joy's title, we're sitting in the inner circles of our governance. Is that the same as Canberra's parliament? Is there similarity? We look for similarities. You'll find this when you go out into the world. You'll do this as well. Other tribes, other nations, tell off different things. Habit, body language, character of the person. We call it Wakai Wian. Wakai Wian is what we're doing now. We're learning from each other. Sitting next to a stranger. How does that feel? Insecure. Insecure, you don't want to do anything wrong. Communication, well, how can I make some conversation, make some friends? Is that diplomacy? Simple things will start everything off. Little things that you miss, that grinds things together, will form that foundation. Don't take it for granted. If you miss it, it's gonna be like now. What I'm saying now, most of you don't know that First Nations people have governance, or we have moieties, because you haven't been in that world. Because of statecraft, Commonwealth craft, how you've been structured through family structures. We haven't got all these things in the education system. All the sensitive stuff. But cultural diplomacy is the key. We started here in Australia. You go overseas. You'll have to talk to those people overseas, cultural diplomacy. Australia culture to their culture. My colleagues will tell you their experiences. Gaurah, you're right to say anything. That's my turn now. Yeah, no, you talk. Forgive us, this is our first time in situations like this. Me and my other colleagues from Yulu country, facing so many audience like this. All right, Gaurah. Yo, thank you. Uncle Willie, first of all, I would like to introduce myself. Just a quick one. Gaurah, I'm a Yulmo, Yulmo person. I'm a Yulmo person. And my name is Gaurah. Marangoh, my clan group is Marangoh. I'm from North Sarnamland, Bungala. I'm from North Sarnamland. I'm from the city of Yungor. Same with my colleague, Chui Bulkunawai. You're first of all, I would like to acknowledge him to the Yawang and Wartangumala. Acknowledging the custodian's degree. I'm from Canberra. First person emerging. Yo, yeah, cultural diplomacy. Just to sort of add Deepali to that. Deepali is to that. Uncle Will. Yo, sorry that English, to be honest, like English, is not our first language. For me, it's probably the 10th on the roll. I speak a lot of other Yulmo languages. And on top of that, it is English. So you will sort of experience something that is very different to how it is. Englishman took into another Englishman, hearing English from a black fellow like me. Sorry to say this, but yeah, some of our English are not so unique. So anyway, we just have to, and we always try our best to sort of give as much as we can. Anyway, cultural competency, sorry, cultural diplomacy. Cultural diplomacy for Yulmo. For Yulmo, like we, most of the areas, because we Yulmo correct Uncle Willi and the others, we met there at Canberra once. And then we know a number of people from there, from Canberra. We met there once for this diplomacy, your biggest diplomacy. And we did a lot of workshops together. So I think most of what's been said by Uncle Willi is very uncommon, very uncommon, especially to Yulmo. Now, for Yulmo, especially for Yulmo, this is Yulmo up the northern territory right at the East Tarnam Land area, right up, even the West Tarnam Land. Now, as Uncle Willi was saying, that we've got, we've got moieties, we've got two moieties, Towa and a Yirike moiety, Towa and a Yirike moiety. And there are so many in there, so many in there. When we talk about the diplomacy, when we talk about the name diplomacy, what is the diplomacy, the integration diplomacy up that way in Yolmo. In Yolmo way, Yolmo way of seeing the diplomacy, how we don't sort of create something new. When it comes to diplomacy, we've already got it. It is in us. We've got it. It's been with us. We are being born with it. It is there. What I mean by it is there already that we are being born with it. It has been placed there by our ancestral beings that we believe by, Towa moiety ancestral being and a Yirike moiety ancestral being. That has sort of given everything for us. They've created it to be as a diplomacy once and for all. They created it once and for all to sort of for us to use it, to use it. Most of the diplomacy is to do with ceremonies when we get together. The big connections that we've got, the alliances that we've got, the ceremonial connections that we've got, that is there. It is shown that it's been placed by our ancestral beings. It is there already. We don't call other tribes when there's a big ceremony. We don't call other tribes. They know that there is a ceremony and that connection that there needs to be a diplomacy that to go and reach and sort of be in that diplomacy that has been placed, that has been created there by our ancestral beings. So for Yolmo and for any other indigenous Yolmo, every new people around the country, I think it is that's how it is. It's been sort of placed by our ancestral beings once and for all. We've got it. It is to do with our culture. It is to do with the gatherings that we do for our ceremonies. That's diplomacy. It is to do with our kinship, the kurutu, what we call the kurutu. Everyone, every Yolmo is related to each other. There's no one Yolmo that is on its own, on our own, on its own. Everyone is related to each other. Everyone has got that connection, ceremonial connection, alliances. That shows that that's how it is. That's the diplomacy. I know it's a bit different how it is in the non-indigenous system where you can sort of engage or witness someone that you don't know, a stranger that would be there. And then you'll probably know that person and work on whatever after a while. One country, a meeting with another country, coming into an agreement on whatever, two groups of people. See, it's with Yolmo in our system of diplomacy is very different. It's been placed there. It is already there. It has been placed. It is in us. We are always, every Yolmo is being born with it. We are sort of born to it. It is there. That's how we sort of understand how our diplomacy is. It is there. It is in our culture. It is in our kinship, it is in our land. It's not only us. It is our land as well, the place, the states that we've got, every clan group that's got their own states. It is to do with the land as well. They are also related to get there as well and has got that monetization. Now, this is all shows. It all shows that this is diplomacy. It is a Yolmo diplomacy. Yo, kallik kalli njindju vanga? Yo. I handed over to my colleague, Joi, to add more into this, Mark. Yo, namir bok, Mark. Yes. Hello. How are you all? Maraya Ko Bolkanaui. My name is Bolkanaui. Ngarra Yolmo Galewin Oye. I am from Galewin Oye. Ngarako Wanga Horyorikyoro. My interstate country homeland is Moryorikyoro. And I work close with my colleague, Gaurah, and others. And I know Uncle Willie. When I first met him at Canberra, he was a great man. When we went over for diplomacy workshop, and we found many things during those time when we was doing diplomacy workshop with Gaurah, Willie, Valani, and Gabriel, they were just great people that we met them. We found that something was there for us already. There was a connection with them for us. And they had that connection with them for us as well. It was so wonderful that we met and find something that is great to work together in that area in diplomacy, indigenous diplomacy. And that's how it's very interesting. Someone like Uncle Willie, he is from Torres Strait. But there was a connection back to where Gaurah and I come from. And every day when we meet, going to start preparing ourselves for diplomacy workshop, we go through flows. Because there was a connection, as you heard about Uncle Willie, what he was saying before earlier, that's what it is. That's how indigenous diplomacy works. And now we are looking forward to see how we can engage with other all nations to work and show that. Thank you. Thank you, Gaurah, Joy. You all must remember from the views, the window of First Nation people, like me, descendants, like the descendants. Our ancestors, our old people, had never succeeded through any colonization. The truth of it, we were forced. There's no documentation saying that. Our governance, we don't work in silos. We work with this, then work with this. No, it's like a circle, in a circle, in a circle. When I see, Gaurah and Joy see this, and we look how the parliament works, lower house, upper house, and we start to think, wow, it's similar. What's the difference? I am from the inner circle. These two are from the inner circles. We're governance of our own tribe and laws. We look after them. We haven't got one portfolio for this person, another portfolio. Tribal system, clan system, are totally different. When you go out into where the doors open, you'll find the same thing. Listen, seek those that understand. You'll get those that come across you that will lead you this way, and then that way, then when you come to see the old picture, they're the wrong people you talk to. The right ones are sitting over there, under the tree watching you. What the hell are you doing? They are there, but it's for you to look, read, but God has given you body language, tilting of the head, fidgeting, nervousness. You've all got it. There's no doubt about it. You've all got it. We've got it. You've got it. You're practicing diplomacy, communication, from the very day you were born. That's cultural teaching. It's there. But when you come to put an arena like this into a departmental stuff, it's up to you whether you take it with you or you lose it and you get in the silo effect. I will leave it like that. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Just thank you so much, Willie, Joy, Gara. Just hearing your insights on cultural diplomacy, how you will do it together coming from very different places is just so amazing and was really insightful. And I think hearing lots about the connections and similarities, Willie and I just met. We'd spoken online, but just met together for the first time about an hour ago. It was really interesting just chatting, finding out that both being Torres Strait were related and Willie's family had come and stayed with my family and a small Torres Strait-owned community in Cape York. So just building that connection straight away. And I think for a lot of scholars and alumni, I've seen there's often a connection when you come back based, and I've seen it today as well, like based on where you've been. And it's great to see languages coming out as well, based on the languages that you've spoken or learned where you're going or come back. So lots of similarities, those connections being formed today, which has been great. I'd now like to hand over to Jordan. And Jordan, it would just be really great building on from today's discussion to hear a little bit about you as an indigenous man, how you used your cultural knowledge going overseas to Fiji on your NCP scholarship program. And also just to hear about your work with the Australian Institute of Marine Science. And I know you do a lot of work with indigenous communities and how you work with indigenous communities during that role. Yeah, no worries, it's working. So I'm a bungalow man. I've come from Northern New South Wales. Also I have South Sea Islander heritage stemming back to Vanuatu. So I'm a 2019 scholar. I went to Fiji as that's already been told. I used a lot of my cultural understanding from my country where I worked on country working with some of the mob doing bush regeneration. And I utilize that knowledge throughout my scholarship. I ended up doing an internship where I'd done a research component studying coral reefs and the impacts of coral restoration on fish species diversity and abundance. I used my cultural knowledge and my understanding and went into the village and asked for consent before I actually went into the sea country to do any work just because back home I know that's what you're supposed to do. I didn't want to upset anybody. I want to make sure I went through all the right avenues. So I've done that, got consent, done my research out on their sea country, monitoring their corals and their fish and supplied that report back to them for their ongoing monitoring programs and management of their fish. Funny thing is we also got some consent to do some coral spawning monitoring while we're on that trip, which is really good. And it shows you the importance of the consent process there because in Fiji they run their sea country a bit different to what they do over here. The villagers look after their sea country there. So they're in charge of policing it because they don't have the same police mechanisms in place to do that. And so we went out coral spawning, had torches. We were looking to see what corals were spawning trying to monitor that. And we got dogged in a couple of times by the islanders there, they're like, oh, there's people out with lights. And because the worry is that people go out fishing at night time to try and spear fish that are resting because they're quite easy to spear. When they're resting, they'll just sit there. They won't move. And it's not appropriate and it ruins the local food source for them. And so we got dogged in, which is good to know that they're policing it. The chief said, oh, you guys are out, won't you? He's like, yeah, that was us. And they're like, oh, it's all good. We knew you were going out there. So it was really good. And having that experience was great. It built on my cultural knowledge and my cultural journey that I'm going on as a young indigenous man. I've ended up bringing all that knowledge and that experience from the New Colombo Land Scholarship to my current workplace now, where I'm working at the Australian Institute for Marine Science. I started off in indigenous engagement. So we have a policy where it's called FPIC, our free, prior informed consent. So for any researcher to go out onto country, they have to engage through our team to engage with the indigenous group to inform them about the research we want to do on their country so they can make an informed decision about whether they want that research to happen on their country. And so we've done a few ones. Some people do say no, which is fine. And then we just go back to the research and say they've said no, you're not allowed to do your research on that country. It's really good. It's putting decision making back in the hands of the indigenous people up and down our coastlines. Ames, like the Australian Institute of Marine Science, is mostly tropical, so tropical north Australia. So that's where we go there. And it's actually helped me a lot having that little experience in NCP and obviously my background working on country as well has really helped me through that role. And now I've moved on to a different role where I'm doing training and trying to work with TOs to develop training modules to see how we can bring traditional knowledge together with Western science knowledge to try and develop management plans that are gonna benefit both the Australian Institute of Marine Science and the true Australian group that we'll be working with in multiple sea countries. So that's kind of where my journey is and it's led me to here right now. So I can't really tell too much more until I have the rest of that journey. Yeah, thank you. Oh wow, thanks Jordan. That's such an amazing story and it's great hearing about your journey and how you used your cultural knowledge overseas but then you're also built on it bringing it back to your community and the work that you do today. So it's just a really fantastic story to hear. Thanks for sharing that with us. Thank you. So I'd now like to hand over to Lily Kennedy. So as I mentioned earlier, Lily undertook a cultural immersion program, indigenous cultural immersion program to the APY lands in South Australia in 2015 and then she subsequently travelled overseas and then she's about to head over hopefully soon on her NCP scholarship. So Lily, it would be great to hear from you just on how you use what you learned in your indigenous cultural immersion program on your overseas travels and how you plan to use it going overseas as a 2020 scholar when you head out. For sure, thanks Rachel. And I just want to begin by to acknowledging the elders past, present and emerging and the people that are here with us today and it's so special to have, yeah, Willys, you guys haven't heard about the travel story, but I mean, it's been quite the mission to come down here. So yeah, just extending how grateful we all are on behalf of the NCP community. But yeah, so my role on this panel today is essentially to give you an insight as a non-indigenous person on the cultural immersion program I did and how that kind of impacts my relationships when I'm overseas and how I present myself. And I'd say that firstly, talking about the immersion program, the sort of things I learned, obviously, I can't summarize it all in five minutes. But I suppose that deeper understanding of community but also cultural structure and the way, the sort of things Willie was talking about before in terms of how their governance structures are but also how the different communities are, what they value, the different roles people have and obviously sort of women's business and men's business. I know a lot of scholars or I would hope that a lot of scholars would know what I'm talking about here. But yeah, I think as well understanding the issues that they do face and how we as non-indigenous people can try and bridge those and assist them but even we know things like land titles, I know that makes the news a lot, the sort of legal land titles and challenges like that but there were some things that I noticed while I was in this indigenous community that I hadn't before. So for example, like groceries, if you went to the grocery store, people say, oh, get fruit and vegetables and they have these health programs coming out telling them to eat healthy and then you go down to the supermarket and a leaf bunch, whatever you call it, of lettuce is like $11 and it's like the practicalities and the way that policy and the real life interact was really insightful. But even just down to story lines and understanding how land matters and why the land matters and those sorts of things. And then I guess I remember most how it felt and how warmly embraced I was or my small group that I went with was by that APY Lairns community and I suppose knowing sort of what colonization's done, I had thought fair enough if they don't want us to be there and they don't wanna share certain things but they were so welcoming and so warm and so embracing but also understanding and feeling their connection to country in the way that they were so deeply rooted and grounded was really incredible. But then the second part of when I'm overseas and I think it's, my comments will be pretty much the same for the times I've been overseas since then but also how I plan to conduct myself in Japan. I'd say that in terms of, hi, in terms of our role when we're overseas it's obviously there's things that are not ours to share there's stories that are not mine to share but equally it's sort of about planting that seed and in conversations if someone says like, oh, Lily, where are you from? It's not just saying, oh yeah, I'm from Brisbane in Queensland, Australia. It's like talking about that Brisbane's called Miangin to the local people, talking about saying, oh yeah, it's not just Queensland, there's actually however many language groups there's all of these states, there's not just defining Australia as what people overseas think it is and I think even just those little tiny seeds just planting those seeds and often I've found that people are inquisitive and they'll say, oh, so what happens over there? And particularly I know when I've been in some countries they'll wanna have people from other countries or wanna have discussions about how their relations are with their local people and ask about Australia and oh, what's it like for you? Do you have Indigenous friends, those sorts of things? So I think just being ready to answer those questions and expect those questions and yeah, just sharing what's appropriate but starting conversations and yeah. Yes. Thanks Lily, that was really great to hear and it's really great to hear how you're using that overseas so thank you. And now I'd like to hand over to Greg just to tell us a little bit about the work Greg that you're doing at Charles Darwin University. Sure, hi everyone, Greg Williams and I've been working at Charles Darwin University for nearly 30 years actually in the job in the Indigenous Studies area. Some people would probably say I'm a bit of a slow learner that I've been there 30 years and still haven't learned very much but I guess when I listen to what's happening here I think the thing that you'll notice is that what we're actually doing in this space right now is the sort of diplomacy work that Willie's talking about. Each one of us is telling a little story about ourselves because we're strangers and we don't know each other and like Willie was saying before you're sitting next to someone now and you're all the little things that you're doing you're doing sort of go, you know, giving people space, smiling, nodding, that's all diplomacy and it's the little stuff and the thing that I think is important to remember is that we're all diplomats in that space because we're all working with people who are different to each other. The other thing that I think is really important with this too in this 30 years of me being a very slow learner is basically to pay attention to what it is that's going on because often people with brains like mine are trained in the silos that Willie's talking about on a job when we're doing stuff but you've got to look around, you've got to pay attention to those little things and to keep paying attention to them. And the third thing I think that's really important and hopefully this is useful for you is that often, I mean maybe you might have been listening to Gara and Joy and Willie listening and speaking, talking in this afternoon and you might be going, I'm not really sure what it is they're talking about. Some of you might be in that sort of boat and it's really important I think to keep in mind and to pay attention to the times when you don't understand what's going on, when you don't get what's happening to you and this experience is sort of washing past you and you're going, what the heck was that? I spent 30 years working with indigenous people and even still now there's times when I just, I'm sitting in a room and people are talking about stuff and I'm just going, I must be stupid, I just don't get what's going on here. Pay attention to those times because those times of disconcertment, those times when your gut's feeling a bit strange because you don't know what's going on, those are the times we're gonna learn and I think one of the things that I've learned over time is in the teaching that I do which is about people working in spaces like this, working inter-culturally and trying to make sense of the way in which they work together, particularly respectfully in inter-cultural situations. Those are probably the three things that I've learnt. Probably hard learnt because I've made so many mistakes but those are probably the three things. If you can remember that you're all diplomats and that you're doing diplomacy right now, right here, every time you meet with someone, it requires you do a lot of work to pay attention and it's those hard, those complex, those gut-wrenching times, stick with them because they're the times that you're gonna learn and that's really important. Did you want me to talk about? Yeah, one of the things that I wanted to offer today in partnership with DFAT and the NCP program is to offer some positions in some of the programs that we run. We have an on-country program that we're running this year and I'd like to offer some places for people within that program to come and join us for a week where we're out on-country engaging with people in learning how to work inter-culturally and additionally we're actually Garra and Joy and Willie, hopefully as well, we'll be running a workshop in Darwin in July where different nations, indigenous nations are coming together to enact diplomacy. So what we'd like to do too is to offer some positions for people to come and join us in those programs this year. First one, we're running in the first week of July and then the second one we're running in the second week of July. So yeah, I'd just like to open that up and be looking forward to, we'll organize some processes for how we can organize people to apply for that but I just want to put out there that that's available and looking forward to people coming and joining us. Fantastic, thanks so much Greg and thanks so much for your valuable advice. It was fantastic. And I'd just like to also add that DFAT in partnership with CDU was so excited to be able to offer these opportunities to some of our NCP scholars, their pilot programs and we will be conducting an expression of interest around for the pilots. We have a few minutes left and I just thought we might finish today's session with either Willie, Garra, Joy. It would be really great if, you know, for you to provide some, any tips or advice you have to some of our scholars who are heading out overseas on how they could get a bit of an understanding of indigenous culture before they head out overseas. I know you've talked about a lot today but if there was just, you know, one piece of advice that you could give them before they head out, you know, what would you recommend? Or how? Wow. Well, first thing you're gonna say, wow, I'm going overseas. No. Just be yourself. Know the principle you stand on. Respect the principle you stand on. Respect other creed, races. Be comfortable in there. Body language, habits, tilting, fidgety will tell all. Relax. Just go with the flow. You will make mistakes, there's no doubt about that but you will correct them again. That's just life. Yo, Gaurah. Your time. Yo, yo, mangymak. Yeah, just sort of now and I can put the way out here. You're gonna go in a way to be friendly. Always welcome strangers, anyone, anyone that you don't know. The meeting has to be for the first time but not to sort of, necessarily welcome that situation. Always be open with that's how you need to find and sort of create that diplomacy place there. So I guess that's what it's the thing that can sort of create that place. Always to be, not to be hard, really. Always need to be open in spirit to allow and to welcome whatever whoever that needs to communicate. Yeah, to be just open spirit person, like, you know. Thanks for that. So that there's no, there's no co-op who really said, yeah, there needs to be some, there's gonna be some mistakes but there are areas that somehow you need to sort of learn from those mistakes by doing right and doing it some other way, the best way, the good way. Thank you, Uncle Willie and Gora, I think you already touched all the base that we need to say. Thank you very much, Ta. Great, thank you very much. I would just like to really sincerely thank our panelists for sharing their knowledge and insights with us today. It's been a really invaluable session and I know I've learned a lot from today's session and I'm sure our audience has as well. So just one final round of applause. Thank you so much.