 So this is our final session of the day for Big Talk from Small Libraries 2019. This right now is Betsy Evans, who is from the Sul Ross State University in Alpine, Texas. FTA about 2,400. Just about, yeah, on a good day. Yeah, on a good day. And she's going to talk about graphics workflow and doing some branding and things for your library in all different ways, with some really cool software and things that I can use, knowing, looking at her print leather show notes here, our description. So I'm just going to hand it over to you to tell us how we can do some great marketing for our libraries. All right, well, I do have to admit that now that I've been working on this presentation, that it's going to be a show that this is a big work in progress. But I'll just get started and we'll kind of work through it together. So like Krista said, my name's Betsy Evans, and I'm the education and outreach librarian at the smallest public university in Texas. And for those non Texans in the room, you know that Texas is a very large state. We, I don't know, Texans have a thing about us. We like really think that everybody knows a lot about Texas. So my apologies in advance. But I'll share more details about Sulras in our small town. But I'll first tell you that what I'm presenting today is an ongoing case study that revolves around something that all of us are familiar with as library people. And that's doing more with less. So it's inevitable for librarians to need and to want to do more with less because our budgets are always decreasing and there never seems to be enough people power to accomplish all of our big amazing bright ideas. And it's kind of sad that that's become a cliche in the library world, but that's the way it is. So I've been in my position at Sulras for about two years. And our universities had some issues with enrollment. I said 2400 on a good day and that's definitely accurate. Last fiscal year we had to cut $2 million from our budget so we are definitely in the time of pulling out all the stops to increase enrollment because a more enrolled and engaged student population means a half year and healthier university. So part of this initiative is rebranding. But as a university we don't have an official public relations officer or even a very well-established creative services team. So it's been a rough few years. But luckily, and you can see in the slide, I live in a really beautiful place near Big Ben National Park and I really love my library colleagues and I love our mission. Our university serves many first generation college students. And our goal is just to instill lifelong learning in the students and in our faculty and staff and in the greater Alpine community. So we as a library and those other academic librarians out there probably agree. I think libraries tend to be the heart of a good thriving university. So instead of letting myself get totally burnt out with all this negativity, I looked inwardly and thought about how I could increase efficiency in my own workload and refine my process and my work day so that I could focus on the big part of my job as education and outreach librarian which is the information literacy aspect. And one way I realized I could do that was to cut down on the time that I spent creating promotions for our services and resources. Oh, pardon me. So in an attempt to do that, I was just trying to streamline and schedule content creation. Yeah, so I didn't skip ahead too soon. So the goals for today then are I'm going to share how I defined really the big problems that I'm having in my own workflow and set about fixing those problems. I found tools that I've shared that I'll share along the way and definitely I will show you my graphic creation and digital asset management in Canva and in SharePoint, which I do understand that SharePoint's not something that everybody has access to but there are other digital asset management type of like cloud storage that's available for free and most institutions have something like that. I've continued to find areas where I need to figure out solutions. So I'm just going to say it a bunch of times. This is definitely a work in progress. But you know, most importantly is that I've really adjusted my attitude, especially looking inward during this time of trying to improve my workflow and remembering that working in any organization is just thinking about things and sometimes thinking big is about really just thinking small and refining and just moving forward. So if there's one thing that you take away from today from me talking it's that you know we all have really good work to do as librarians and looking towards other librarians is so helpful and that's why I really value opportunities like this and I've used a lot of past talks from this specific conference to Jettison ideas forward in this library. So even today during the lightning round I learned a few more tips from Courtney Hicks and Jennifer Shimada for marketing and working smarter and those things are going to apply how I move forward with this workflow. I'm going to share my process with you in a traditional case study format. I'll define some of the problems, provide more background and context and then I'll transition into the ways that I'm trying to solve those problems and provide some recommendations and then of course we'll look to the future. Okay, so the biggest concern that I have is how much time I've been generating and regenerating promotional content for our library. That's for our website, on social media, for print promotion and physical displays and for a new LCD screen that we just acquired. These things are definitely separate and in other libraries different staff might be assigned different tasks related to organizing and public relations but in this library it's mostly me. So an important question to ask also at this juncture is why bother with all of this extra work? We've been able to show on our campus that these promotions and this time that we spend on social media and the time that we spent redesigning our website have made a big impact in our usage stats and are in the door stats. So we've seen the door count increase exponentially in the past two fiscal years and we've just watched the library grow as a place that people really want to be on campus. So in order to honor our mission and continue to grow those services we think that having that consistent voice is really important. What I'm looking for seems simple. I'm looking for template-based signage so that anyone in the library who wants to make a sign can make a sign that follows our branding guidelines. I want an easy approval process for those templates and graphics so that our dean knows what's going on. I want content that transfers and translates easily between formats and platforms. Those include displays, print promotion and online graphics, in other words a consistent brand. I want a timeline so that we have things planned out and we don't have to drop everything to get something done at a moment's notice even when it's a really good idea. And I would like to reduce waste and save resources by printing less, using free software and making the most of social media. And that all sounds really easy but here's what I still need to do to get there. Obviously more foundational effort, more time to build more templates, just getting all of that stuff ready so that I can present it to the rest of the crew here. And I need buy-in so I need to be able to promise them that it's worth their time and people have emotional connections sometimes to their design processes. So I have to overcome those feelings and make sure that people feel confident and understand the point of moving toward a more consistent and cohesive voice. Then buy-in for an approval process. I'm thinking that I need a little bit more of a concrete approval process maybe outside my own building so getting more stakeholders and administration with the various different people who work together to plan and promote events on campus. And then of course I just need more assessment so a better understanding of how my audience of students mainly but also staff and faculty and community how these people interact with promotions of services and resources and you know just like the question of is it worthwhile to create all these printed paper advertisements. That's the way it's always been done but these are the times when we need to push forward and ask those questions. Okay so let me share a little bit more about Solras. The Bryan Wilden Fall Memorial Library is here at Solras State University based in Alpine. It's a town in Far West Texas. I should have put a nice map on this slide with a population of about 7,000. If you can visualize Texas, El Paso is over on the western point and we are three hours east of El Paso. Then if you think about Austin which is kind of in the middle of Texas we're six hours west of Austin so we're really kind of in the middle of nowhere in Texas. If you've heard of Big Bend National Park we're two hours north of that and we're 30 miles down the road from the internationally known arts community of Marfa which people tend to know more than Alpine. So we at Solras are designated as a Hispanic serving institution meaning more than 25% of our total undergraduate full-time equivalent enrollment is made up of Hispanic students. We serve a population of about 2,400 students and many of these are first generation. That means that something we find is that library staff spends a lot of time with our students making sure they are generating skills that they need for those early composition classes and other coursework and generally providing an additional outlet for student and moral support on campus. I think for me it's just been an adjustment coming from the public library world to this education heavy job where there's a lot more hands-on and a lot more one-on-one support with students, which is great. I never thought I'd like doing it so much actually. So Will and Fall Library is the only university library on this campus and on the other three campuses that we serve. So we've got a staff of 11 serving under our dean and with the dean included there are four reference librarians each with drastically different roles outside of reference service. So administrative and leadership, technical services discovery services and then education and outreach. So a few big areas of current interest that pertain to our library and make sense to bring up here are that we are the Seoul Library but there are three other campuses located in Del Rio, Uvalde and Eagle Pass with students who are also entitled to use our resources. In that great description of the physical geography of Texas, it's important to note that Del Rio, Uvalde and Eagle Pass are at minimum three hours driving distance from Alpine. So those students are not driving to use our library physically but using our library mostly online and connecting using Blackboard Collaborate and a lot of those virtual services. So these students have access to resources at a junior college but that reciprocal agreement is not very formalized. So we serve these students at Seoul Del Rio, Uvalde and Eagle Pass but outreach is definitely lacking to those students. This will eventually mean that our brand and our voice as a library and as a university needs to grow to be strong enough to support itself in these other locations so that the services that we provide mean the same thing in the four different geographic locations. The other thing is that we also house the archives of the Big Bend which is its own entity in a way but not on any kind of budget. So it's really important and truly the gem of our institution in my opinion but they lack the time and resources to really be the best that they can be. So that's just another thing that we're thinking about especially as funding becomes more and more precarious. And then of course for me specifically the drastically different role that I play as a librarian is the education piece. So Sorry about that. I meant to, it's 4.15. That's going to happen potentially two more times while I'm talking so I will try to keep an eye on the clock and maybe mute it next time. That's okay as long as you don't get kicked out before you're done. I will not. I warned them that I would stay after they turned off the lights. Okay. So kind of in the why bother category I think that and in the other duties as a sign category I ended up even though my role is education and I spend a lot of time in the classroom and a lot of time working with faculty to develop ways to incorporate information literacy into assignments. The kind of obstinate of the spectrum is all this PR and outreach and events planning and programming that I'm doing. And I think that this is such an important aspect of my job especially in terms of getting the faculty to answer my emails and to do the things that I want them to do with information literacy is just growing the popularity of the library and making the library a place where people want to be and where people feel comfortable. So sometimes we just do these things because nobody else is doing them obviously and oddly enough my dean is a librarian who's, she's really interested in design and graphics and she wishes that she could be doing all of this stuff but she's so bogged down with administrative stuff but she started a design blog called library and design chair and I'll share a link to it as well when I share these slides because it's been a really great source for me as I've once I found out that she was in charge of it too. She doesn't run it anymore but it made me really want to share that any kind of graphics or promotion that I was doing was really up to her level but I started doing all of this stuff when I first got to this library because I took over the social media accounts and I started by just kind of building cohesion between our different platforms so we're on Facebook and Instagram and a little bit on Twitter but it's not really a Twitter community out here how I could grow the popularity of that like the followership and the engagement online and then kind of leverage those numbers to show that okay if we can do this online and increase clicks into resources and clicks into services you know on our website then it could potentially work in the library too if we were kind of having a cohesive voice and a brand okay so obviously in terms of also context and background we have to do research because we're librarians so some of the things that have been really helpful for me are learning more about workflow mapping I joke that I'm like definitely a public services librarian because I'm not nearly as detail oriented as any of my tech services counter points so I'd have to work really hard at doing things like workflow and creating charts and using Excel and all that stuff and that's just a personal problem but other things that have been really important are the Solruss branding guide of course because that helps us to decide what the library's specific branding guide will look like this article in College and Research Library's we used it last excuse me we used it last semester with our acquisitions library and retired after 26 years and we used this five step process to go through several of her processes to modernize them and it really worked well so I'm using it again in this process and I definitely think if there's anything that you're looking to increase efficiency with definitely check out this article by Orna and Warfield and then of course this marketing for special and academic libraries it's a really good source book but the scope is a little bit bigger than what I'm looking for right now but I have used it quite a bit and it's just part of our collection so the actual building a workflow part is kind of a big chunk of what I've been doing and like I said with that source book it's really easy to get bogged down in the moving parts of library marketing and promotion and then even how that fits into a broader organization if you're part of a broader organization like I am so with different aspects of promotion requiring slightly different workflows I'm finding that I still have a lot to do before I get everything ironed out considering planned displays, planned events and planned resource promotion or service launches you can kind of start to see the workflow coming together but of course the keyword is planned and so much of the work that I do and probably all of you do is not planned so it really points to the original problem but building a more solid workflow for the things that I can control should free up time for the things that inevitably come up last minute and so here's where I am with that workflow. First of all planning backwards in advance. This semester I mapped out displays month by month using an Excel spreadsheet actually in my OneDrive on SharePoint so I picked some themes and input titles and call numbers of books that would be transferred from the general collection to displays and then I brainstormed how to connect those resources and services to those displays. It saved me so much time it's only February but it's already really been a high return on my investment of just a few hours on a Sunday reference desk shift. So this I also felt is funny because it's kind of an old school way of doing things as planning out a physical book display but it's helped me shape the whole academic calendar year in terms of what I want to promote and when and there's also how but we'll talk about that later but just connecting actually the physical books to all these virtual resources and programming that's coinciding as we move along throughout the year. So in terms of planning backwards it's important for me to know how much padded time I need to add to promoting an event, a display, a resource, or a service because of the other workflows that exist on campus. So in my case if I want to have posters hung all over campus I have to get them printed which means I need at least 24 hour lead time to get something to the print shop and I have to have them ready and distributed to my student workers and the residential living office within two weeks of the planned promotion period to give everyone the time that they need to do what they need to do and I also have to have my posters stamped by our campus activities office once they're printed but before they can be distributed so I have to add in time to walk posters over to that office before final distribution. So that sounded like a lot of work right so knowing your audience is something that I've been working on and I've come to question a lot of times that's a lot of work just to get stuff hung up on a wall so who's even reading these signs. But through anecdotal evidence through talking to the assistant director of residential living I've learned that yeah people are talking about these things that they read on the community boards over in the residence halls and there are 1100 students who live in those halls so advertising in the residence halls is worth the extra effort because it seems to really work. But maybe advertising on the event boards that are located like all throughout campus might not be worth my effort unless I'm really doing a big push for some kind of big annual event like the open house that we had on Valentine's Day where we did just the whole campus and we had a nice turnout. So that's kind of leads into knowing your cogs and that's an affectionate term for the people who make the workflow work for the library. So collaborating with people like the assistant director over in ResLife or the manager of the print shop who the more that I talk to her and she's convinced me to save paper by creating bookmark advertisements and printing on 8.5 by 11 flyers rather than tabloid size which is 11 by 17 because the argument is that it's still a flyer even if it's only on a regular 8.5 by 11 sheet. So connecting with these different cogs has definitely increased my efficiency and there's just the human aspect of it. So appealing to the kindness of these people and really listening to what they have to say and trying not to reinvent the wheel while still trying to build a more efficient workflow. Of course I'm going to show you on Canva in a little bit what I'm doing so you can get an idea of what we're trying to achieve but the main simplification I'm working on right now is just to work with standards. So I'm talking about templates but also about shapes. I really like squares because they look nice on our social media and they don't look too bad on our LCD screen. You just center the square right in the middle of that big rectangle and I am trying to kind of figure out how I feel about putting squares on promotional flyers but I'm working on that and probably just would really increase my efficiency if I could just give into the square all the time. I think it's important to start with this seems so sometimes more obvious to some people than others but one thing that I do is that I build a lot of graphics in like PowerPoint or Canva I used to work in Microsoft Paint a lot so you don't have to have fancy tools. Microsoft Paint has a lot of pretty good capability as long as you're starting with the graphic the biggest graphic first so the thing that you need to be the biggest like your flyer that needs to be printed it needs to be the highest resolution and then you can kind of cut pieces out of it and work down from there but I can't turn an Instagram post into a flyer because everything's just going to be distorted and not ready so that's just a simple tool always start with the biggest one. Okay also saving to the cloud so like I said we're going to look at Canva and SharePoint because I'm trying really hard to better organize my digital assets so that the programs I'm doing every year I can keep coming back to them and not having to rebrand programs over and over again every year every semester. The cloud service has been really helpful for me because I move around the library building a lot I forget my thumb drives so I can access what I'm working on from anywhere and even on my phone so your organization doesn't have to pay for an expensive service like SharePoint you can use things like Google Docs or even Canva's free storage for me has been enough so far I haven't had to upgrade because of that. So of course the last part of building a workflow is following that workflow it's never an A to B or linear process so we follow the workflow so that we can maintain it and continue to refine it Okay so before I go over to Canva more about graphics would be just like the keep it simple approach is definitely where it's at and why I intend to transition all of my graphics to templates moving forward and if you've never heard of Canva it's a cloud based software with drag and drop functionality that allows you to make some really nice signage and graphics and they offer paid accounts but so far we don't have one I actually just have a free individual account and then some of the other staff have individual accounts for the other things that they do with Canva but an institutional account is only $12 a month so it wouldn't be crazy and I would think that if you were working with a team it might really be worth the money so the greatest part about Canva is that they allow you to upload your own images so that the most out of it I've uploaded our logo and brand mark sets to the website and I also use the hex codes to find the exact colors that I want so you can change there it is we're pausing for the announcement to finish yes sorry about that yeah so I love that you can custom it you can like take something that's existing and change all the colors so that it just fits with exactly what you're looking for and I'll show that to you in just a second our school colors are red and gray so luckily our university branding guide that came out last December they chose some complimentary colors so not everything that I do has to be red and gray because it's just really intense but I am one of the most universal adopters of these secondary colors so I try to do everything on the up and up following what the university is asking us to do so one of my favorite things when we get in there so bringing over Canva to show you guys if you haven't used it before when you I'm logged in already but it will give you the opportunity to create a design and it gives you lots of different size options which I think is great but it also will let you create custom designs so recently I made some lights for the whole university I made these like sliding lines that go in some plastic holders the university already owned so I was able to build custom dimensions so that the sign would print perfectly and it's amazing that a librarian can do that and we don't have to outsource it to somebody else but for the library so here's an example of a square and I think my favorite tool is that you can come up with something that you've made previously and you can clone it so you can clone something and just make a new thing and somewhere around here I have all other 9 tips from EBSCO for interpreting media but yes so I really just wanted to show you how it's evolving and how I think I'm getting a little bit more uniform with trying to follow this workflow that I'm setting out for myself and what I think that we're really just going to move toward is utilizing our collection of flicker photos which is a new thing for us so we recently got a new director of publications and news and he has a fabulous photo for us so I only take photos of my iPhone but he luckily just is everywhere on campus taking photos all the time and uploading them for us so I have this great library of photos that are available to use for these promotions and what I really like about them is that students get excited because they can see themselves on these posters when they're out and about and I've actually heard good feedback of students being, I was worried at first that they weren't going to like it but they do like it and they feel like okay I'm part of this community now and there I am, look I'm on a poster so it's going really well and then I guess I can show you also with all these different logos that you have more organized and then the other thing is okay so over on SharePoint I hesitated to show you guys SharePoint because it's so personal for my organization but at least you can see my file naming system so in outreach and promotion events you can just see it's helpful more the more organized that I am the better and one of my time management things that I've been doing is just setting aside time I'm not, I took a class on this in library school, you're supposed to just get in the habit of putting things in the right folder at the right time but I'm a big save to desktop kind of gal but what I can promise myself to do is put those things in the correct folders at a special time so on Monday mornings I usually look forward to the clearing off my desktop time of the day when I put everything where it's supposed to go and I tell my students it's just about what finding what works for you in terms of research management and organizing okay what else was I going to show you over here alright I think that's it I'll show you okay so that was kind of the back end of or behind the scenes of what I'm doing but what I'm doing is just trying to compile and internally publicize our local style guide and that's based off the university branding guidelines I've also got a philosophy that I'm not changing based off this workflow and I thought that it might be interesting to share that like I have this philosophy about social media that I think even though there are a lot of great tools to manage social media now that I still want it to be organic and I call it my social media plus mental health philosophy and that is what keeps me doing it and keeps me coming back to it so I use posting to social media as an opportunity to get up and leave my office and walk around the library and see what's happening and see what people are doing and sometimes I take photos and save them for later sometimes I post right in the moment but I don't think I'm going to change that part of my workflow because it really does just kind of helps me to engage with the people who are in the library at any given time when I need to go up and get up and get out of my office. The other thing of course is talking about time management with all of this and I thought it was funny in the blurb for this talk that I mentioned creative time as if we all have like a daily appointment in our outlet calendar so it's like creative time which we don't most of us some of us might be lucky but I tend to save a lot of this kind of work for when I'm at the reference desk so much of the other work that I do working with faculty and writing proposals for like grant funding and all this stuff that requires a lot of thinking I like to do that in my office but I can do social media and I can play on Canva when I don't mind being interrupted so at the reference desk is really when I get a lot of my outreach and programming stuff done we've talked a lot about what I'm doing but our concerns for the future are of course to stick to these habits not to drop everything at once I'm really trying to stick to the schedule so even if I notice something on the LCD screen as out of date when I go to the restroom because I have to pass by it when I go to the restroom I'm not going to stop what I'm doing and fix it then but I'm just going to wait until that scheduled block of time when I'm on the reference desk and fix it on the reference desk and that is hopefully going to train me to be a lot more proactive about it also we just know that our university branding is going to continue to evolve so the new R example seems to be silly on my slide but recently all of our logos for the entire university were tweaked slightly but just enough to where we're going to have to change everything again from what we changed last December so there's a lot of stuff going on in our administration that's kind of trickling down to us there's a fear about what we're doing in the library and how we can make sure that we are doing our best to be part of the university branding but also we're so afraid of just doing the same work over and over again so that's an issue that's kind of coming up and then growing those graphics into our bigger service footprint outside of Alpine is going to be an issue as we move forward and continuing to just assess this workflow as we move forward so to recap today I presented our ongoing case study it seems to have led to so many more questions and answers I've talked about some of the progress that I've made and I showed you Canva and kind of where I am and graphic creation and then talked about what's going to happen in the future and how we just don't know what it feels like when I put this presentation together that I just started whining but know that it was really therapeutic for me and it's great that I still have a lot of work to do so thank you all for coming on this journey with me and thanks to the Big Talk from Small Library's conference and thank you Krista for organizing everything especially when you're just getting over an illness Oh yeah any questions I made it almost to the end of the day great thank you so much Betsy you know that was awesome I was very much appreciative of all your organization tips and everything about how to do because there are so many things and this is what's great about your presentation too that it's not just for the academics everything you're doing applies to any kind of library that's going to need to organize all these different places that you're doing things and how you're trying to market things and how you're trying to brand and like you said they just slightly tweaked our logo and now we got to redo everything I didn't think you were whining at all it's very understandable everything you're doing we did have a couple of some questions that came in if anybody does have any questions type them into the questions section of your go to webinar interface and we'll get Betsy to answer them for you so everyone has a question here and I think you made a mention of this but I think I want a little more explanation do you print these posters yourself or do you take them somewhere to print them for you or do you do some a little of both well luckily for us we just got these nice new 0x printers so my color printing has gone from zero capability to pretty high quality here in the library just in the past few weeks we do have a print shop on campus so for those anything that I want on bigger cardstock or bigger format I have the capability of using our print shop oversized posters or banners or things yes I would have to do for you yeah okay for a small community as Alpine is do you advertise beyond the campus and the community for some of your events we do it's actually our Facebook page is mostly community members and faculty so we get a lot of engagement with community through Facebook but we do the local newspaper picks up many many of the things that are going on on the university campus but especially in the library so none of the students using Facebook then no the Instagram is definitely more popular with our students Snapchat is really really popular but I just can't get into Snapchat myself I don't know that it's very much something for marketing it may be one of those places you just don't it yes I'm looking for a student to be my ambassador into Snapchat but I haven't found the right student yet absolutely there was a site you mentioned so once no of you share the link to the Librarians design share site that you mentioned yes definitely and it's very Googleable too but when I give my slides to you I'll make sure I have all of those additional resources oh great okay great so you have all the links that might be linkable you'll have it there great let's see what do we have here I'm just reading this one question here see okay this is when you're working with a team this is yeah how do you emphasize the need for using the templates for sticking to the brand when other team members want to be quote more creative this person is needed to convince team members that they need to stick to the program of what we're doing even though they might have some of their own ideas it's a really sensitive process I previously worked for the Austin Public Library oh there it is again sorry well I hope they won't turn off Betsy's computer as she said she'd let them know she's there they promised they wouldn't so what I was saying is I worked at the Austin Public Library in Texas and during their big rebranding so in their office of programs and partnerships and there was just the most amazing amount of pushback because if people were just worried they were losing their opportunities to be creative in the workplace I think here I've had a lot more success and the best way that I can say like the easiest way is just that you're saying like you don't have to do this I'm making it so easy for you so that it's just one less thing for you to do you're definitely going to come up against people who are creative and want to do what they think is creative and luckily in Austin I had a co-worker who was willing to lay the hammer down and it might be that I have to be the person who lays the hammer down eventually but so far so good here it's a hard thing to give advice on because it really is just going to depend on your relationship with that person who really wants to be creative and sometimes you've got to take that tough love approach. And then where is it being dictated from the brand or the template as well for example is it your university or your city if you're a public library says everything that you put out that relates to you has to have this logo or this header on a web page or something because you are representing us the bigger picture but then beyond that you can get more creative with your specific information potentially but you still need to work within the guidelines and so it may depend if there's some past the buck kind of thing where you can say that like we as a state agency have to have certain things at the top and bottom of our pages no questions asked because we're a state agency in between those two things you can do whatever you need to do what you're doing for your agency but it didn't come from us it came from above yes and that's it it's great to be able to blame policies sometimes we as librarians know that and I think also finding that space to let people creativity in the middle of those two guidelines is really important too because you know we want people to like their jobs sure oh yeah and have fun doing these creative things yeah I think also pushing the fact that this is for the brand of the library is something we've all could be if they're all involved together in creating this picture of what the library is going to how the library is going to present themselves so giving them the power to be part of the process too might be helpful definitely part of something bigger help do it you know maybe if they care if you can ask them well together let's create something and then we all have to make sure we follow it yeah it is a difficult situation alright any other questions for Betsy here before we wrap up type into the questions section there I will say for myself personally I have used Canva before as well and I also highly recommend it it's such a slick as you said you can be a I'm sure people who go to school for this and schools that teach this don't like me to say it but you can be a graphic designer without having the training oh it's surprising how nice it is some of the things I've seen some libraries and some colleagues of mine come out with and I just assumed it must have been their PR person or their their communications department that you know an expert graphic designer they hired and they're like no I just use the software and I click and drop things and it's got a lot of that built in knowledge in there for you so yeah and free as you said alright well it doesn't look like anybody has typed any last minute desperate questions for you but um you can contact Betsy at her library if you do have any sorry so many years out of a little coughing no worries so I think that will wrap it up for the day thank you so much Betsy for finishing things up for us here thank you Chris but wait one last thing a name of the site that you said your director manages about graphics oh that's library and design share that's the one that the previous person mentioned and it will be included in the slides when they get sent to us yes alright so that will wrap it up for this year's big talk from small libraries