 It's a regular schedule meeting of the town of Berlin Development Review Board. Robert Wernick, I'm the chair. On the right is Tua Nelson. On my left, the board member, and the vice chair is Carla DeWiesel. We have on the screen here John Beatrice, board member. And Polly, our recording secretary, Carla Preston. And his own administrator, Tom Medowski. Orca is on the widget as well as Orca's over here. OK. Orca is recording this. Very good. And to the applicant, we have? I'm Matthew Avera. I'm the one purchasing the subdivide. Your name is what? Matthew Avera. Matthew Avera? Yep. OK. And do you have permission to represent the applicant? Yes. He does. We do. At the top of that ball. OK. Yeah, I can see that. OK. Yeah, because we've already paid for the land. So we're kind of working backwards here. Matthew, and we have someone guest here. You are? Julie Slater. I'm sorry? Julie Slater. Julie Slater? And? She's daughter to Brad Slater, the owner. We have somebody else joining here. Do we have somebody else joining us? Come to somebody. We can keep going Bob there and sort of get in here. There's no name on it, besides Motorola 1. OK, Tom Christiel, a pen from you, please. Thank you. They're still not connected yet. OK, well, we'll proceed. They join us. We'll ask them to introduce themselves. First thing I want to do is swear in. Anybody who tends to give testimony in this manner before the board tonight? You're very quiet for some reason. Is that is that true for anyone else? They weren't a minute ago. I know, but now it's I'm not getting much volume. I can hear Carla laugh. This is there you go. No, barely. Well, I may have put my hands over my mouth. Oh, there. Yeah, it is much quieter than it was. Yeah, I don't know what happened. What is Mike? The only mic that we're using is the one on there we go. Perfect, that's it. Who knows? It's magic. That's right. Excuse me. We have somebody on Motorola 1.5. Can you introduce yourself, please? Hello, 1.5. Could be ace. G ace. A C E ace. Motorola 1.5 G ace. I like to go old days when I had to show up at the door, Tom. Well, what we do now is swear in everybody tends to give testimonies before this board tonight. Would you like to give testimony tonight, Julie? OK, if you do, we can swear you right now. But I need to swear anybody who tends to speak before the board tonight. We swear to tell truth, nothing but truth, matters before this board tonight. Another penalty is a perjury. I do. Yeah, it's gone quiet again. Where's the megaphone there? It's funny because it periodically, the sound is good. Yeah, right? Right now, I can barely hear you. Can you hear me? Yeah, there we go. Bob, you need to sit here and then just speak a little louder. All right, I can speak louder. Can you hear me now, John? As soon as Tom starts speaking up, but then I think the microphone adapts. Yeah, go in and out or something. I don't know. Now you're quiet again. The important thing is that Carla can hear you so she can take the minutes. Right. Carla, can you hear us? You fade out. But I can hear you at this moment. Do I need to move, John? Tom? Can you hear me now? There we go. We can. Yeah, too far away from that speaker. Motorola is not working. I've been to Motorola, it's not working. Thank you. What's Motorola? It's not working. It's a person or whatever that is. Oh, yeah. OK, not working. I see. OK, so we've sworn in the applicants representative and zone administrator and Julie Slayton. Julie, I'm sorry. You get to go. So why don't you tell us? Excuse me. Party status? Party status? Do you want party status? She probably doesn't. Party status means you get to not always testify. And in fact, you have to testify on the matters that are important to you. But if you don't like the ruling we make, you get to appeal our ruling if you have party status. Are you a neighbor? Or a wife? I'm just the daughter of Brett. And the future may get a lot as well. And then just kind of learning, observing, and just trying to understand the whole process. I don't know if she'd be eligible for a party status. Probably not. Probably not. But she's not requesting it. We can always deal with that if something comes up. John, can you hear me all right? Yep. OK, just too far away. Please, if you would start by giving us an overview. We obviously have standards that we're going by for subdivisions. We're going to review those standards criteria. Yeah, this is why. But I think it would be helpful if you explained what's there and what's being proposed. OK. So this is actually my first time doing something like this, too. So I'm kind of learning as we go as well, but. You get your name. Your name is? I'm Matthew A. Bear. I'm the one purchasing this chunk of land. So this chunk of land meaning? The lot that's being subdivided, yes. The whole, both? Lot two. No, just the little. Just the four acre parcel. Yeah. So explain to us what the subdivision is. So basically, we had to go as the size we did because of the lay of the land. There's some areas that aren't useful, right of ways, things like that. But we've paid Brad for this lot of land already. We're kind of working backwards because I think there was maybe a money issue not to not be able to pay for the surveys and everything that goes with it, the septic design. So we had a Trudeau engineering come in. They did the survey for the lot. They also did a wastewater survey already, but that's down the road. There is a chunk of this land that perked very well. It's right in the power companies right of way. But we've had Green Mountain Power come up, walk the site with us. And they've said that we're good to put a septic in their right of way there. Basically, they were saying it benefits them because us building the road, the driveway up into this area, they can now get their trucks up in there in an emergency. So we're helping them. So they're letting us put that septic in that right of way. Are they going to give you a formal easement or I think we'll have to get one before we're done just to cover our bases. Yeah, what if I were you? Just stop. Yeah. But that's down the road. Yeah. No, just make sure you, yeah. This side of the, well, I know you guys can't really, the southeastern side of the property line here, it's pretty steep. So there's not a lot that can be done there. There's a lot of ledge up in here. Also, this western side, it gets kind of steep and wet too. So there's a lot of areas that aren't useful in there. Can you show me the boundaries of the existing lot? So the existing lot goes. It's not on here. Oh, it's not? Oh. It's a very big lot. Yeah, it goes down, it's all of this area and then kind of up and it comes down. And I think it goes to the brook. Or does it go to the other side of the brook? OK, so it goes past where this is. OK. So this is here at that parcel. And the access is? Our access would be the right of way, going up Brad's existing driveway. There's a power company right of way through here. So we're just kind of using that existing right of way, which was it was a logging road up. And we've, so you can get up into here now, crush it down through here. And it actually runs back down onto the main road over here at some venture. It does horseshoe, if you wanted to really start digging and tearing. So Brad Slayton is subdividing off this 1.64 acre to sell and hassle it to you. Yeah. We have our. And he's retaining the remainder of his lot, which is 35 plus or minus acres. Yeah. And I think, I believe, he wants to sell some of that too, but that's down the road again. That's later. But for the time being, we're buying this chunk right here. OK. And access to this lot will be the existing right of way that the power company has coming up, Brad's driveway. There is another right of way access that the power company has over here on the main Velco lines. We've been asked not to use that because it does cut across the property for above us. I can't think of a nice name. I've met him. Donald Blanchard. Donald? Thank you. Donald has. And he asked us not to use that because he's afraid using that will erode his driveway. The traffic coming down that steep of a hill will erode his driveway. So that is his right of way. He has a little shot through the middle. Like you have to, you go up Brad's land and then you have to cut through a portion of his right of way and then back into this lot. And so you'd be cutting across his property. And it's his rights. And I don't want to. That's not shown on this drawing. No, it's just a stone road that Velco put in so they can access their lines up through here. They're good at that. Yeah. So the best right of way is to come up the Green Mountain power access right of way. So that right of way is a right of way for Green Mountain power to get to there. Yes. OK. And that same right of way serves how many other folk? I think it just goes up to the rest of this land up here because these other neighboring properties are all along the main road. Right. How do you get to the cemetery? There's a cemetery there. Oh, the cemetery is below Brad's. So that's still Brad's existing driveway. Cemetery's right here. So you turn and you come up past the cemetery and you go up past Brad's house. And then the right of way would keep going and up into the upper lot. So that easement is that so the Green Mountain power has an easement that goes up through there. Yeah. You have a right of way to that. Our agreement we talked about was using this Green Mountain power right of way and making that the right of way to this lot. So you're agreeing with Brad. Yes. But did you purchase that right of way, easement? It was in the purchase agreement. It's in the purchase agreement. Yes. I'm going to say this. There's a criteria later on where to go about access and so forth. I realize that by making a third lot off of this access, that's going to make this a private road. That's where I'm headed. And you have to meet road standards. And what you have here does not meet road standards, but we get ahead of ourselves in terms of criteria. No, that's something we have to kind of create an association or whatever amongst. Well, yeah, there's more to it than that. We'll get that because I'm going to go through the criteria and just make sure we cover all the bases. The bylaws are somewhat new to me, even though we've had for a year now. But we're just we're still working through them because previous bylaws we had for dozens of years. So I'm going to go through the individual standards. I want to get an overview. So you're purchasing the slot and you're going to use this right of way. And so there's going to be issues about that. I did have a question, though. That cemetery, what is that cemetery? That's a town cemetery, I gather. Yeah. And how do people access that cemetery? There's a little patch of grass lawn area right in front of it where people can park a car. So they use the same right of way. Yeah, they use that driveway right now. It doesn't have access to Junction Road. No, they have to come in through Brad's driveway to access the cemetery. Is that a steep road? Yeah, when you get up into the actual lot, it gets a little steep. I mean, I drove a F-250 truck with it pulling a 40-foot fifth wheel camper up there. So I mean, it's not like steep like you can't. And we had tri-axles bringing stone to put on the road up in there. Where does it start to get steep? Right in Green Mountain Power is right away under that bend, that curve. It's a little steep. So most of it until you get up to the right of way. Yeah, you're in the middle of the lot by the time it gets a good. OK. Other than that, it's all pretty straight. And it did have a lopsided when we first, the access road was kind of tilted. And so if it got icy, you'd slide and go down. But we've since corrected that. So now you can. Well, that'd be tomorrow. So going through the subdivision standards. Am I missing something here, Tom? Capacity of community facilities and utilities. This has to speak to impact on municipality. Anybody have any questions on any of those issues? I didn't receive any comments from police or fire. Yeah, I don't anticipate police, fire, ambulance service. Although this goes back to the road in about a minute. Obviously, the road has to be serviceable if somebody wants to come up and provide a virtual services. And that becomes a bit of an issue the more people are living on the road right away. We even had a this week, and I had to get a flatbed wrecker up there to pull me out of the mud. So you can get a good sized truck up there right now. Water supply switch. There is a spring on this lot. There is another spring over about 300 feet, 200 feet down. And what will be still Brad's property after. His existing spring is right about, I don't know if you can. It's still on his property. In the wastewater survey, there is some overlap where the septic. Whale shield. Yeah, it was just barely within the 250 feet. So they've said if we do put a septic in, we will probably have to redo the spring or the well. So that's part of the wastewater. So you were going to rely on the spring, you think, initially? For this lot that I'm buying, there is a spring in the middle that's not affected by anything. So yeah, we're going to end up putting a drilling well in there. But you're not using municipal water or municipal sewer. So it's going to be on-site, watered on-site. For which you will be getting a permit from the state. Yep, that's all after we divide it. I understand you are applying for that or going to apply for that. So Trudeau Engineering, who did the survey, has the application all ready to go. But we have to do the subdivision before we can submit the application for that. So they have a plan drawn up. We've got to check this box before we can do that box. You said Trudeau. Is it Trudeau? Or Trudeau? Trudeau. Trudeau. Trudeau's, yeah. John Petrowski. Because there is a survey company called Trudeau. Oh, is there? Yes. No, John Petrowski came up and did it. I was on Waterbury Fire for 24 years. And John's on Waterbury Fire, so I knew him. But you were saying true line, I think. Oh, I thought I said Trudeau. He did. He did, OK. I heard what I wanted to hear. I don't know, I go all over New England, so I've been told I talk funny sometimes. The design and configuration of the parcel, I have no issues there with that. That's logical. You are? It's in a RL40, so the lot size is more than adequate. More than adequate, lot size. It does have a fair amount of utilities on it, which means there's a lot of area you can't build. Yeah, and that was part of the problem when finding a buildable spot and also a perk. And we found, we basically, the wastewater design that's going to be presented, sorry, you can see we've got a spot. So here's the existing road that comes up in. Here's where it bends. This is Green Mountain Powers right of way. This is Velco's right of way. We've got a spot right here between the two that it's a pleasant piece of land. There's the septic design over. It's actually, I think it ended up just outside of it right away. But it's close, so that's why we kind of. Piping will have to go through. Yeah, the piping will have to go through. So we have a proposal, basically, for a three-bedroom, two-bath home. It'll sit right between those two right of ways. So your intention is to build a home on it? Eventually, yeah. Probably a year or two down the road. We're kind of doing it slowly so we can not go deep into debt over it. We're trying to do as much of it ourselves as we can to take the foundation ourselves. I didn't have any issues with the lot dimensions, particularly, again, it's a full rakers. And the zone we're doing requires an acre. So it makes sense where it is. I do have one issue here. 3504C says you're supposed to put a building envelope. In other words, you're supposed to draw on the drawing where you tend to build. What part of the property you build? So we had that in our, and it looks like the printout was kind of cut, but this shows where. So the right-of-way comes up and it curves and it comes up to the power line and it flattens out. And we're basically going to turn and come in and we're going to build right. There's, the land kind of comes to a point right there where there's a notch and it goes down. We're building right on top of that. So it appears that this is your building envelope here? Yeah. That needs to be reflected on this. Oh, on this? Yeah. Okay. Typically, a building envelope is showing an area, approximately one acre or less, of where it is suitable to build based on easements, slopes, and everything else. So I have a sense that- Can I just draw on this paper and give it to you or do you need something official or? It should go back to you. It should go back and have them add that to that. Okay. I thought this was good enough for a position. You couldn't even read that, to be honest with you, because it's an EF, which I could hardly, I could not expand it on my screen or anything, so. That one had the topography on it and everything too, so that's why we- Which is great, except for if we don't have a good copy of it. Yeah. We had a good copy of it, that would be helpful. I have it in my phone. I mean. Yeah, I know that. It needs to be on here. Okay. I'm a paper guy. Okay. It needs to be, this is what you're gonna file with the town on a mylar for the subdivision and the rights away and the envelope need to be on here. Okay. Typically, this little dash line says this is the area intend to build. Yeah. Okay. And it- And it doesn't have to be just the size of the house. No, it could be a whole area. Yeah, I get it, I get it. Yeah. But for lots more than two acres in size, which is yours, a building envelope must be limited to not more than one acre. Yeah. So one acre area where- That's definitely well within that. Yeah. Even if you fill the septic in there, we're not- So you've thought it through, you just, it's not on the drawing. Yeah. And we need to have it added to the drawing. Okay. Because we don't have this yet. This is not- It's not an official. Not an official document for us. Okay. Until it's been reviewed and approved by the state and so forth. Okay. So that's just, it's a technicality, it's about all it is. Yeah. Because you've obviously thought through the building envelope. Yeah. Like I said, we worked with Trudell to come in, you know. And they've done this a hundred times so we were kind of relying on them for what we needed. Next is beyond building an envelope is the design layout of necessary improvements. And this is the road, access road, right-of-way issue. It says that a vehicle way that provides access to more than three lots, six dwellings or, you know, the rest of it, will be considered a road, not a driveway. Yeah. So the- Is it more than three or three or more? It's more than three. To more than three, in other words- And I was familiar with that one before, because- We talked about it. Yeah. But there's not more than three out there. Being on the water very fire, right? I know that's a nine-on-one thing is why they- That access that serves- I think Matt said it's gonna come back around and serve the balance of this lot over here. Well, I think Brad's plan was down the road if he sells this, that this lot would be accessed from Junction Road down here. Because there is a logging road down just past Dan's house. And didn't you say that is Blanchett's off of this as well or no? No, this doesn't- No, that was over here, right? Was that the one that they used the- Does Blanchett use- Blanchett, they share the first little bit there. Oh, okay. The driver goes around the cemetery. That's the fourth lot there. Oh, the cemetery is a- The cemetery's a lot. A lot, one and a lot, two are each lots. Okay. Blanchett. Brad's lot and your lot. And then Blanchett's lot is number four lot. So a segment of this road is basically serving four lots. In other words, more than- We'll be serving- We approve this. We'll be serving more than three lots. Right now it only serves three lots. I knew that was going to be part of it. I just didn't know how we go about that process. So in order to permit that, that section of road that's going to be considered road. And we understand Blanchett is possibly thinking about adding lots. I don't know about- Oh, you don't know? Okay, so that's- We're either here or there. We're only dealing with what we know so far. Yeah. Okay. Brad wants to divide a few more lots eventually. If he does, then that's not in this evidence. But if he does, we're going to have to improve other areas. Yeah. Any portion that's going to serve more, any portion of this road that's going to serve more than three lots needs to be brought up to town road standards. Okay. Okay. And that's the issue. The first thing I notice is that the right-of-way is only 30 feet. And that does not meet town road standards. The right-of-way is only 30 feet. Is that width? The width, right. Okay. In other words, the property in which that the road can be built and improved. And road consists of the road, drainage for the road, steady slopes and all that other stuff. So we typically insist on a 50-foot right-of-way minimum just because you need that much area to work a road. I don't know if that'd be possible on this lower end because you've got the cemetery right here and you've got a brook right on the other side. So that area is a little, and this is all steep uphill to that cemetery. So if you start going into that bank too much, you're going to start encroaching on the stability of the cemetery. So I don't know if you can go 50 feet there. Well, the right-of-way, the right-of-way has to be 50 feet. Oh. The road doesn't, the road's on 50 feet. Oh, okay, okay, okay. In fact, the road width, the standards the town has for road width is 22 feet. Okay. So you have to have a traveled way, which is 22 feet. Okay. Okay, the right-of-way, but beyond the traveled portion, obviously you've got any side slopes or cuts that you have to do for the road. Yeah. And you have any drainage you need for the road. Yeah. And by the standards, you're going to put the utilities also in the right-of-way. Yeah, the utilities, they currently, the utilities right now are currently, there's a pole with a meter on it right by the cemetery. And we were going to drop our meter at the same spot and run underground up to this lot. In the right-of-way. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So any portion of this road that's going to serve more than three lots, and the cemetery is a lot, needs to meet the town road standards. Okay. Okay, and I have copies of them if you have seen them. Yeah, no, I'd appreciate it. I can get that bit, I mean, it's honest. But looking at the thing that we're missing is an understanding of what's there. Yeah. And can you make the improvements necessary to get to where you need to be? Does that have to be done before you can divide or can you do it as a, we'll have this done in a year? It'll be a condition of a permit. Okay. Well, I won't talk about that. Okay. So can I ask which portion of the road are we talking about? Well, right now, if nothing else. We basically have to come up to about this fork, I guess. Correct. If nothing else happens and there's no further lots created off of this road or this road, then up to here. And after that, beyond that, all you're serving is one, two, three lots. Up here you're serving one more lot, so. Okay, got it. So this portion here has to have, but if I'm doing this and I'm looking ahead and I got any intention of doing anything more, it's the time to do it now, not later. Yeah. But yeah, but for now, from my perspective, we need to have a 50 foot right away from here to here. And we need to have a road design from here to here that basically meets town road standards. Yeah. I worked for VTrans for five years and I owned a landscape company for 25, so. So you understand. I'm pretty well versed in this area, yeah. Okay, so that's the thing I've seen missing at this point in time. Now, we can either make that a condition, and I'm talking to the other members of the board here. We can either make that a condition of the permit, and I'm not sure how we enforce that, but or we can ask to see plan and sections of the road to tell us what's going to happen. Can it happen? Can it happen at number one? So what I'd like to see is, I personally would like to see some typical sections, at 100 foot distance or something like that that tells me what you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And a profile. It says I can get 22 feet of roadway here, and I can get the drainage on each side I need to get, and I don't need a full design, but. Yeah. What about the issue of the easement? What? What about the issue of the easement? And the easement. Right now there's only a 30 foot easement there. So that will need to be negotiated as a part of this transaction. Because I'll be honest with you, with a 30 foot easement, it's pretty hard to get it in a 22 foot roadway. But who owns the, who owns the. They're talking about ditches and everything. Who owns the easement? Who owns the land the easement's on? The land surrounding the easement or the land of the easement is lot number one. Oh, okay, so, okay. I thought I didn't know if it belongs to the land. So it's lot one owns the land from which the easement is conveyed to. Now this document did not show me that Green Mountain Power also had an easement. It just simply talked about the other ports of the easement. Didn't talk about Green Mountain Power. Yeah, when we purchased it, he included the agreement with them and Green Mountain Power originally. But this plaque doesn't talk about it. Okay. I don't see any reference to Green Mountain Power easement. But it was hard for me to read it because of the screen. Yeah. But there's nothing on here that says GMP. Maybe it was just a Velco one then. I'll have to look back at that. And I think you said the Velco one is the other one. Velco's this bigger straight line in the back. Yeah. Yeah. Green Mountain Power has this. I mean, typically they don't always have easements crossing the land. I have, you know, I've got properties and I've got friends with properties where Velco, the only way they get to their, you know, their right of way, their easement is literally up to easement, which isn't always convenient. So they usually negotiate agreements with front neighbors. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I was looking at a Velco agreement. But this plaque does not say there is an easement by Green Mountain Power. Okay. I'll have to look into that then. Because there is one that should be replicated. Yeah. It may be they, maybe I was looking at Velco and there's no Green Mountain Power and they just have their lines running through there. But I'll research that. If they have their lines, they have an easement. Well, for here, but not necessarily to get up there is what you're saying. Not the road to get up there though. Oh, the road to get up there is, they may not have an easement at all. Yeah. Because they were using four wheelers in the past to access up there. They would just take a four wheeler up and. Up there right away. Well, my experience has been there go across about anyways land to get there. But they have a right of way. Well, they have their easement. There's no question about that. It's just how they get there. But how do you get there? That's the question sometimes. Yeah. Unless they were looking at the Velco access up here and coming in. It's not material to this application because other than the Platonies are sure if there is an easement the Platonies are showing. Yeah. Which I'm guessing is the surveyor, the LS would have recorded that, but maybe you missed it. So I would like to see Trudell cut a couple cross sections for us here. Okay. And show us the grades that says we can get this from here to here, 50 foot right away. So I think you need to modify that part of agreement to get a 50 foot right away. And need to provide enough evidence that says I can get a 22 foot wide road surface there. Yeah. I also would suggest that if there's any intentions by anybody to go beyond that, despite the time to deal with it. Yeah. But you don't have to. That's not for the, your applications is independent of that. Yeah. Okay. But we did talk about a shared maintenance for you too. I haven't got there yet. Yeah. But yeah. I realize that's something we'll have to do too is. Yeah. That's a couple of criteria down, but I just want to cover this and I sort of wanted to throw up to the other board members. Anybody feel differently about this? We're not making a judgment here. I'm just saying this is what I think we need to see. Yeah. I think it makes sense. Yeah. The other road standards we have, deal with connectivity, dead ends and so forth. But I don't see that there's, this is not going anywhere, at least for your part of this problem, it's going to end with you. Yeah. And your lot. Yeah. And the way this lot is laid, it's right in the corner. So there's really no going past it anyway. So. Because that was, if we went a little this way, not only was this land over here not usable, but it would also have created a little pocket here and it was just, so it was decided to move it right into the corner for division purposes. Now you said the grades are modest up until the last little bit. Yeah, it's a little steep right here. And I mean, you could avoid this corner and go straight that way and come up and it's not as steep, but this road was already there. And it wasn't steep enough Let me ask you this. If you need an emergency vehicle to come up your fire engine. I was a fire truck. I was a firefighter for 24 years and I could drive a fire truck up there. Thank you. Yeah. Like I said, we had a flatbed wrecker up there to winch me on. But that's what we, that's our concern is, you may know how to do that. You may be able to get a large vehicle in there. But the future owner, because we're approving a lot, not you. Yeah. And fire engines are not as small as they used to be. They've, those cavovers, those ones are a lot bigger than, so yeah. No, you could definitely get a fire truck up in there if you had to. And I'll be glad to provide you with copy or I can, I can send you a copy of the design construction standards for town of Berlin. But that has to do with the roadway standards, depth of gravel, Yeah. Drainage, slopes, all of that. But if you work for V-transfer, you don't even know what I'm talking about. Yeah. But that's all part of those standards. Street trees, it seems to be a lot of natural vegetation there now. Anybody feel strongly about the street tree? No. Polly? No. No, I think it's fine. I mean, it's bad. Is it not? It's not on the street. Yeah. This is a two lot subdivision. That road will need to go through and be named a road now with this. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, is it? And that I have to get with Donald. I'm horrible at names and I apologize. Donald, I'll have to get with him and Brad to see what they want to do about naming it because I do realize that it would, because of it being a private road, we'd have to have a separate name which would change his address. Oh. Okay. The other criteria that has remained is water and wastewater. Obviously you will need approval. Yeah. But we'll condition our permit on the fact that you will be able to obtain approval from the state for water and wastewater. If you don't get approval from one, then our permit's not available either. We've already started that. We, Trudeau's done their legwork on it already. It's ready to put to paper and submit. We're just kind of waiting for the subdivision to go through so we can do that process as well. We have erosion control standards. We're bringing in any work that you do to get a site work but it's probably not really an issue with this. We've not done about a lot of site work. No, we really just. Even the road improvement for the first, what is that, about 100 yards up to the fork? I don't think it's even that honest. Yeah, maybe 100 yards. So it's just 700 feet. And I gather that grade is pretty flat. Yeah, it's flat right up to the fork and then it goes up to Brad's and it's still kind of flat up to the right of way for the power company there on the other side. So it's not. I'm gonna skip over storm water management but somebody's got issues there. Obviously monuments and lot markers will need to be put in accordance with these bylaws which is also in accordance with the survey standards. Yeah, they're waiting for this all to be done so they can stick those in but they're. So the last thing that you're already aware of is this issue of joint maintenance of roads. Yeah. And are the thought that you're gonna have a owners association agreement or are you thinking about? I think that's the easiest way to do it because I mean like I have a tractor and knowledge in the industry and Donald up top has a tractor and he maintains his own section already. So, you know. The portion we're talking about right now frankly is. It's just that first 700 feet. Yeah, I mean you really should have a portion because there's a portion beyond that that will serve Slayton and you and you really should have an agreement between the two of you. Yeah. But that's only again that's then beyond that it's all about you. Yeah. And I've made the offer I said I'll maintain that in the winter if I have to and Brian Brad's helper said that there's a neighbor that comes over and does it for him. I'm more than willing to fork something out with them as far as maintenance on it. You know. The issue is you don't own it. Right. Once permits issued, you may or may not own it and then. Yeah, I guess it's just getting something and writing that this is what. Even if it's allocating percentage based on the length of the road or something just. I can give you a draft copy of it. I gave it to somebody recently. It helps when people sell it. It's going to be a condition. Yeah, because it comes back to haunt the community. No, yeah, you definitely want it all in writing to cover your bases in case something down. Give your whole litany of town roads in this town that have gone that way. It's been an ugly situation. So yeah, your best off putting in writing to begin with. Yeah. No. Whether there's a shared responsibility, it goes with a lot. And the next lot owner has the same responsibility. And they're aware of it when they buy it. Because it's part of it. If it's in the deed, it's based on that much easier. That way they don't, they're not surprised. So that's now. Yeah. So you're going to maintain it? Have we been requesting to see copies of those transactions? Yeah. So we'll make that a condition. We'll also want to see a sample of what you intend to do. OK. I can give you a draft. Yeah, that'd be great. There's several ways to go, whichever works best for you guys. Creating a owner's association sometimes is more clumsy than dealing with deeds. But that's really up to personal preference. But can't the owner's association be something as simple on paper as, hey, this is the association of XYZ Road? That's for your attorney to do. Do your $1 a year. And then we all. You and your legal. Really brings your attorneys involved. So. I mean, it is honestly, in my opinion, best to put it on the deed. So that, like I said, if any buyer is aware of the agreement. So I saw a lot of cases in law school with fights over roads because it was just no, nothing was written down, and everybody was arguing about who had to maintain it. Yeah, because it can get expensive. Yeah. Especially on some of the roads that were wrong. I think I've put 4,000 in to put the road up into there already this summer. And that was with my equipment. So I didn't have anything else with the other criteria. There are seven more criteria to have to do with character of the area, but it's a residential area. Seven pattern. So I'm hearing the need for continuation then? Yes, I think so. I think we need to continue this so we can see the easement issues resolved on the portion of the road, which needs to have 50 foot right away, which needs to have 22 feet of road surface. Through that first little up to the floor. We need to see some evidence of what's going to be built there. The building on the road. Yeah. Well, the building on the road, but I'm talking about the road. I'm back on the road. Just cross sections, distance, profile. I take your word for it, it's relatively level. Just want to see it. Yeah, it's level. I mean, it's pitched a little, but it's level. Yeah, well, nothing's really level on the bottom. Yeah. And building a little bit upon it. Building a little bit upon it, which you know what it is. It just needs to be put on the drawing. So that's a simple drafting exercise. Verifying these other rights of way that may not be on here. Yeah, you brought up some right away issues that I don't understand. But it sounds to me like there is, my guess is there's not a little green mountain power right away on this. But if there is, it should be mentioned in the flat. Okay. To be accurate. Okay. And maybe, you know, Trudeau probably, I think they talked about that some, but I guess maybe I should have pushed him a little away to make it here tonight. Then I thought I'd be able to answer everything. No, they cost money when they come to meetings. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's another $4,000 to get him here for the night. So we want to see the building level. We want to see how you're going to apply the road standards. The 50 foot right away, 22 foot roadway section, which seems like it overkill, but if there's future development, you know, which is likely to be, it needs to be there. And we want to see a sample maintenance agreement. Okay. That's right. So obviously some measurements for the road. And then yeah, it's just some discussions with neighbors. I'm okay with the maintenance agreement being conditioned, but for being, I don't know that he's gonna have time to get that for. Okay. I mean, that's just my personal. I mean, the road's wide enough now. Like I said, I have a 40 foot fifth wheel that I pull with a crew cat truck. So it's a monster long setup and the truck's actually lifted. So that makes it that much worse. And I can pull it up into there. So we have some recent precedent requiring the maintenance agreement in advance. We do? Yeah. Point over here off of Scott Hill Road. And ultimately when they file a plot, it's going to have to be with, it's going to be with the filing. So whenever they file a subdivision final plot, that has to be there. So it says in the bylaw that the DRB may require that provided draft of the covenants or agreements. And that's what we're asking for is a draft of the Covenants Agreement. But ultimately when they go to file it, that filing will have to be, it'll have to be with that filing. But they have like six months to file, right? They have six months to file, correct. Was there anything I missed? Date certain? Or yeah, how long do you think you can take you to deal with us? Changes to the billy of all. I mean some of this is weather dependent at this point too with snow coming, for road design measuring, that's going to be kind of weather dependent. But you know, a month, six weeks, I could probably get this all together. What's our schedule like? I could scramble to get it in for next week, next month. Well, we're not here. You're here. It depends on how much for her you're in. Oh, well, like we've said, I want to get this done just in case, God forbid something happens to Brad to wish anything. But if something did happen, that's going to make this a whole lot messier. So I'd like to finish it up sooner than later. You want to say about a month? We've got regular schedule meetings on December 6th and 20th and then the first Tuesday in January, that's probably the second, the third, January 3rd. So it's, I guess. Here's pick a date of our next meeting that you think you can make it and you can't, you always ask for a continuance. I would do December 20th, sounds like. I was thinking December 20th, it's good too. That's right between that four and six week. So it gives me time to kind of get some measurements and do some research and yeah. And just for the record, if you have to get a continuance, basically we just meet on the widget to continue. Yeah, I mean, we would say I need a continuance. Okay. And we go another. We'll graduate soon. So we can do that online. January 3rd and then January 17th. The advantage of setting a date in advance is that you don't have to re-warn it. Yeah. It's simply now set, it's already been warned and anybody that's partying here today. You go to the original warning, you go to this meeting and you see it. Yeah, that makes sense. Let's go for the 20th then. Okay, I'm going to continue this application to December 20th. Second. Most have been made and seconded to continue this meeting until December 20th. Any discussion on that motion? Paulie, John? John, you're still with us? Oh yeah, I am, I see you. Okay, I didn't hear you. My apologies. All those in favor of that motion, please. Oh, the kiddies with you too. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? Abstentions. Thank you. We are continuing this till the 20th to get those items ironed out. Yes. Louder. Louder? Yes. No one's ever told me to be louder. Nobody's ever said to be louder. I'm usually here shut up. If I ever... Well, most of the people I know now are hard of hearing, so I'm used to screaming. So Carla, what Bob said is continue to December 20th. Thank you. And did John second that motion from the Carla? No. Tore. Tore did. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Good luck. Yeah, we'll work on getting that. Good luck with that. Yeah. So you're most the way there? Yeah. Yeah, it's, well, we originally bought it in December of last year. So it's been about a year now, just getting all the legwork done to get to here. But yeah. It's a process, it's a process. I don't wanna ask you what I saw on Google Map up there. Oh yeah, when we bought it, it was a mess. I think we took out two truckloads of just garbage. There was an acre up there that a kid was gonna buy from Brad before. And he went up there and set a camper up and just destroyed it. Just basically made it a landfill. And it was, yeah, I'll spring when we did the test holes. I had the excavator up there and it was just clearing up that trash and spent most of the summer just moving dirt to get roads built and pitches and trash cleaned up and brush and everything else. And it's actually, it's put a lot of effort into it. So. All right. Good. But I'm not owning the property. God bless you. Yeah, right. The thing I do love about it though is where it sits, where we wanna build the house, you look right up Sunnybrook Road Valley and my uncle and my grandparents' house is right here. So I look right at their houses. So that's the best part about it. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. All right, thank you. Any questions you feel free to call Tom because I'm joining help room. Okay. Yeah. All right. What else we got? Well, we have one more item on our agenda and that's the approval of minutes of September 6th. You know, it's funny. I thought, were these the last minutes? I looked back, we haven't met since then. That's correct. So we have actually issued the findings of fact for that hearing, but we still need to approve the minutes formally. And I had one small edit. Which I shared with Carla and she actually made the change, but it was that she had said in the minutes that the, I can't even remember now, something had been provided, but the applicant did not provide it. He simply said he had it and he could provide it. And I believe Carla made those changes. The lighting. What was that, Carla? It was the cut sheet for the lighting. Correct, thank you. And so let's see, I would make a motion to approve the minutes, subject to that one change. Okay, most have been made in second to approve the minutes of September 6th. No, I can't hear you. I don't understand that. But anyway, most have been made in second to approve the minutes of September 6th, subject to that one small change. Hi. Thank you. I lost track of where I am. Sure. Does anybody feel we need to go into a deliberate session? We pretty much did our deliberate. No, it's pretty straightforward and we'll probably get the missing pieces in six weeks or whenever the 20th is, five weeks. Okay, then I will retain the motion to adjourn. Who made it? Some moved. Toured. Second. And second by John. John's ready to go. Yeah. Not debatable. All those in favor of that motion, please stand by by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you.