 Think Tech Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. Welcome to Hawaii Food and Farmers Series, where we meet with Hawaii's farmers, foodies, and everyone shaking up the local ag scene here in Hawaii. I am your host today, Matt Johnson, and as always, you can tweet in and join the conversation at Think Tech HI, and you can also join the conversation by calling in at 808-374-2014. As always, we have great, interesting guests, and today we have with us Lizzie Porter with Green, or Bees Green's company, and talking about her new container farming venture. I just recently started back in October of last year, and recently I just met you, Lizzie, at Apahana last week, and I was kind of eavesdropping your conversation, and you're kind of talking about your venture, so I was very excited to meet you and hear more about it, so thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for having me, I'm excited to be here. Yeah, so we have a lot to talk about and not nearly enough time, so we're just going to jump right into it. So yeah, what is Bees Green's company? So Bees Green's company is a farm and a box, basically. It's a vertical hydroponics inside of a shipping container that we started back in October, and it's located in Waipahu, just in a parking spot, basically, in front of a self-storage facility. We're growing leafy greens in there right now, and the idea is really just to be as resource-efficient as possible and space-efficient as possible, and doing it in a really kind of tech-forward way. So for example, I didn't actually come from Ag, but because of the way that the system is set up and how facilitated everything has been by the good tech, I can monitor all from the phone. And so far, no big disasters yet, and I'm selling in farmer's markets, and yeah. Cool, so I think what's really fascinating is that you're combining a few different things. People are familiar with hydroponic farming, and people may be even heard of container farming, but I think what was really caught my attention is how everybody knows accessing land can be really hard in Hawaii, and even if you are able to access land, then you have all these other challenges of irrigation and the equipment that you need and being outdoors. So talk a little bit about the, so you have this container. Why don't we start with, talk a little bit about the container setup. So you have a farm in a box, and you've purchased this from a company that was already existing, or what is that set up like? So yeah, we got the container from a company called Freight Farms, who's based in Boston, and they have been in business for a few years, and they retrofit shipping containers, like insulated shipping containers to be these really efficient growing machines, and it's called the Leafy Green Machine, and they, because they've been doing it for a few years, they have a lot of really good insights about it, and have been a really great support. So we bought the tech from them from Boston and had to get it all shipped over to Hawaii, which was kind of an adventure, but yeah, so now that it's here, the way that it works is it's, we'll start plants horizontal, like as normal plants are, but once they are a few weeks old and they're strong enough, we can put them into these towers. So more of a vertical growing method. Right, yeah, so then we can just hang these seven foot towers from the walls, and that's what makes it so space efficient and water efficient, and because the whole thing is a container, we're not losing any water to evaporation or to ground soil, we can control the whole system. We don't have to use any spray, we know we're not getting any of the neighbor spray, and because of our location and sort of just the environment inside, we don't have any risk of slugs or the rattle and worm threat or any of that, so. Wow, so talk a little bit more about the technology, it was Freight Farms, is the name of the company based out of Boston. So talk a little bit about the, so you have the hydroponic technology, but what else is happening in the space you mentioned before, that there's software that you're using, so imagine there's monitoring systems, talk a little bit about that. Yeah, so pretty much everything is controlled, we have a power hookup and a water hookup, and then we have it on, so there's sensors that can tell me when the water is low, when it's high, and the water will automatically go on once the reservoirs get too low, and it'll fill back up until the little high sensor goes on and then it'll shut off, it monitors the pH levels in the water, it measures the electroconductivity of the water, and through those it can monitor if it needs more nutrients, if the pH is too high, we have a pH upper, we have a pH lower, so we can adjust everything that way, and I get all the data on an app on my phone, so it's a software built by that same company, Freight Farms, it's called Farmhand, and that, yeah it's a really interesting tool, so I can see all of that data, I can also control everything, I can turn things on or off, if I get a call, as I said in front of a storage facility, and this actually happened once where I got a call saying, there's a lot of water coming out of your farm, and I was living up on North Shore, but I can get on the app, turn off the water that was flooding and make sure everything's okay from there, so that's been really important, but the other great thing about it is it keeps track of all the data, so there is an analysis tool in there, so I can go back in, and if I'm noticing that the plants aren't looking the color I want or whatever, I can sort of look in and see, oh, you know what, the EC levels have been getting low, maybe they aren't getting enough nutrients, or I notice that every time the pump goes on, the humidity is going up, oh, maybe there's some leaking going on there, maybe dripping, something like that, so it's been a really important tool to the business. That, I mean, that's all the kind of information that any farm would love to have, but if you're out in an open field, I mean, it's much harder to be able to capture that information and be in control of the different gauges where there's irrigation or things like that, especially if you're on the North Shore and your farm is in Waipahu, that's amazing to be able to have that control. Talk to us about, so what are the kind of things are you growing? So right now, we're mostly growing lettuces, we've done a little experimenting with herbs, starting to get into microgreens, did some edible flowers, just kind of feeling it out, but because we can keep the whole thing a little colder and a little more controlled than the outside environment, it's really kind of been something where we want to find the right lettuces and things that people are interested in and can't already grow traditionally. The point isn't to come in and kick out farmers who are doing well. The point is to bring down the amount of food that's getting imported because some stuff's not going to grow as well here traditionally. And if that has to be imported, that's a big cost just in the quality of the food that's being imported, but also the environmental cost and all that. So we've been growing, like Butterhead has been doing really well for us. It always looks like a pretty green flower and tastes great. It's pretty soft and always does really well at the farmers market, sells out first every time. And then we've been doing some Romaine, which has been good. And that's typically a cooler climate group. Yeah. I mean, I think you can grow here as well, but it's been interesting to just the setup of the farm being its own little controlled environment. That whole Romaine scare on the mainland. We know that we're our own little system. We don't have any worries for that. So between those and then a couple other varieties of lettucees, leafy greens and things we've been experimenting with. So talk a little bit about your actual location. So basically, I know we have a picture in here at some point we'll be able to see the actual container, but it's basically just a regular shipping container. And you have it parked outside of storage. Yeah, store quest and there's a picture of it right now. So to me, I think this story in itself is fascinating. So basically you're parked right now in what is typically set up as RV parking for the storage place. Right. So it was parking spots in front of the building that could be rented out. And they just didn't typically have tenants on those spots and it was kind of challenging for them to rent it out. And so I got to talking with them and basically decided that it could be a beneficial partnership for everybody. So yeah, we got this container. And after the whole hassle of getting it here, we got it could be in front of the spot, which has actually been really nice to just to be kind of on the side of the highway, you know, and kind of be like this odd little odd little place on the side of a highway that's not, you know, not necessarily beautiful ag land or any of that. But it's this is in Waipahu off of Farrington Highway. Yeah, that's Farrington Highway in the photo. Yeah, there's gonna be a subway stop there when the whenever the metro opens. But yeah, so it's been really good there. And that's kind of another reason why I'm doing it the way I'm doing it is I really came to this whole project from the perspective of a futurism. And there's some really interesting questions about what's what the future is going to look like. And one thing that really kind of has been a question for me and for my family is, as cars become autonomous and car ownership goes away, like there's going to be these parking spots, there's going to be parking lots, there's going to be, you know, car ports and garages that are not necessarily needed to be for cars anymore. If you were all just effectively ubering in an autonomous car all the time. So it's kind of a question of what it can we do with that space and still have, you know, if people want to live on the ag land or grow stuff that can't be grown the way that I'm growing it on that land, it can stay for that. And we can sort of take these other less beautiful places and turn them into really productive. Like the side of Farrington Highway. Yeah. I'm like the picture in the background right now. We definitely want to talk about the future of all this, but we want to get a little more background on, you know, how did you get into this? And I know you've got some, you have some partners and and what, you know, how did this all come about? So, yeah, I mean, it came about because sort of looking, trying to answer these questions of what the future is going to be like. And one kind of, you know, big, big thing that keeps coming up is in 2050, there's going to be 10 billion people. How do you feed 10 billion people? And so because of kind of being curious about that and wanting to know more about that, that's how I came to know the company Freight Farms in Boston. And I kind of had that in the back of my mind. And just being out here and really hearing that, you know, knowing that 85% of the food is imported and the cost of, as I was saying, you know, the cost of the quality and the environmental cost of that, plus, you know, the insecurity of when it dumps rain and takes out the windward side, you know, that's really challenging. And there's some scary, you know, rat lungworm stuff here. And it kind of all just lined up really well that this little efficient box, this safe little box could fit really well here and help with a problem of, you know, answering the question of helping now of bringing down the amount of food that's imported, but also kind of helping to experiment and answer the question of like how are we going to grow more efficiently, more consistently, and sort of just decentralize it, you know, like have it don't have to be one big network that can be in trouble and make it having a system that's really turnkey enough that someone like me who didn't come from Ag can kind of just step in and start growing. So that's that's sort of how I got started. And then yeah, just just knowing that it seemed like a really good fit here. And the more I kept pushing on it kept trying to find the problems of the idea. And there weren't any ones that I couldn't over come so far. So I'm here doing it. So I'm curious, what is your background then? So you just started this, you know, obviously by planning for a couple of years, but yeah, had the container arrived last October. What is your background? You said you didn't, you don't come from an Ag background, but yeah, no, I studied science in school is always kind of a science and tech person. And I had done a little bit of hydroponic gardening on my own. So I was kind of familiar with the concepts and how to do it. But I don't know, I've never really been an office job kind of person. And I wanted to do something that really got me excited to talk about it, you know, and something that I really believed in. And so I've had a lot of sort of crazy ideas that don't always work out. And, you know, like teaching scuba and all, but for a little while, and a lot of different things. But this is, yeah, this has been the one that like, every time I kept coming back to it, it kept seeming like a good idea. And yeah, no major roadblocks and people really, the people I really trust and you know, that are my support system really agreed with the idea and they helped me help me get it going. Yeah. Awesome. Well, we're going to take a quick one minute break and then we're going to come back and talk more about the future and talk more about the systems. And yeah, so we'll be right back. I'm Ethan Allen, your host on think tech's likeable science show. Every Friday at 2pm, we delve in the magical, magical, fascinating world of science, how science applies to your life, why you should care about science, what impact science has on you and on those around you, why you need to know some science. It's a fun, interesting, painless way to learn some good science that you can use. See you there. Hey, hello, everybody. Thanks for joining us on think tech Hawaii. I'm your host, Andrew Lanning, the security guy. I host a program called security matters Hawaii. And I hope you'll join us on Fridays. We are at 10am. And we're going to be talking about those security things that really should be important to you and maybe get behind the scenes on some things that you may not know about the industry or about products or even about your habits. Security is all about people, processes and products. We hope to bring that to you in an informative and hopefully a useful way. So again, 10am on Fridays, security matters Hawaii on think tech Hawaii. Join me. Thank you. Aloha and welcome back to white food and farmer series. I am your host today, Matthew Johnson. And we were talking to Lizzie Porter with bees greens company and talking about her new venture of container farming at store quest in Waipahu. And I'm very fascinating. And we were kind of talking about how you got into it where this idea came from. What I want to talk a little bit about is just kind of like the, what's the operations like? So you found a farm, what's the name again? Free farms. Free farms. Yeah. So you found this company in Boston that kind of had this, you know, in a box farm system set up. So you made that investment and then you went through the process of shipping it here in Hawaii, which is no small feat. And then you had to truck it to store quest parking lot. Actually, but yeah, what you were telling me before, like where are some of the challenges you ran into with that? Yeah. So just there, it's almost a totally normal container on the outside. There's a couple modifications to it, which unfortunately means that it was like non standard to ship it over. So that, you know, just starting there made it a little extra extensive to get it because they had trucked it to the port of Long Beach in LA and then getting it shipped from there to here. So that was sort of an adventure. And then I was a challenge to get someone to truck it up because of basically to get it into the spot was a little, there wasn't quite the runway that a truck would need to just truck it straight in. So in the end, we had to find someone to crane it in, which was pretty wild to see this big old shipping container going, it had to go over some power lines and you're just kind of seeing it like up over the power lines. Yeah. So it was, it was, it was, it was awesome to see it, but it was definitely an expense that I hadn't expected. And yeah, making me a long term tenant in my location, making me not want to move again. Yeah. So that was a little bit challenging. And, you know, with any new business, there's always going to be some surprises. So in the end, you know, it wasn't something I couldn't overcome. And, you know, sometimes it's a bummer to take that hit in the beginning, but I really, you know, I really believe in the idea of what we're doing. And I think it was worth it in the end. Well, it's cool. So you're also talking about just, just being an entrepreneur and kind of, you know, running a business that you just kind of have to be prepared for the grind. And there's always going to be these things that pop up that you can never put in a business plan or even think about. And so, yeah, having that problem solving. So it seems like you're really doing a good job at that. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's been good. And then, you know, and honestly, just once we got it all up and going and getting into the farm, it's great to be in there. And I've had a couple of people come start working for me. And, you know, I think that they would agree that it's nice to be in a refrigerated box in the middle of the day and, you know, have all your plants just on one tower right there next to you. You can just grab them. You don't have to be walking acres. And so it's pretty nice in there, too. It's a good sound system in there as well. Good work environment. Yeah, it's fun. Nice. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit about the actual kind of operation. So, yeah, you got the container in there, and you hooked up to the water to the power. And then you have your hydroponic systems going. So you mentioned before, like, so it's a container. So it's about 230 square feet. It's a 40 foot container. So it's 320 square feet. Yeah. And so when it's at maximum, maximum efficiency, which we're not quite at yet. We're still kind of ramping it up extremely. But it can get to almost two acres of annual yield, is the stats they give. Two acres. Well, I think it's 1.8 to two, depending on what you're growing. You can round up. That's okay. Sounds good, right? Then I'm going to come back and really check on others. Yeah, right. Yeah, I know. So it's really efficient and maybe not exactly in my location, but it does have the opportunity that when time comes to expand, maybe you just put another one on top. There are others around the world that have the same setup that I have, these freight farm boxes. And I know some of them are stacked. Cool. So, yeah, it's the same 320 square foot footprint. You get three of them. That's almost six acres, five and a half, six acres of growing, and a very, very small footprint. Cool. So, talk a little bit about that. And so you've got all this fancy software, and you've got these systems that you're putting the nutrients in and tracking the water. So how much manpower does this take? Do you have to go there every day? Or can you just do everything from your phone? I mean, what's the reality of it like for you? Yeah. So, you know, there are weeks when it feels like something's going wrong and I go in every day, but there was times, especially before I had hired anyone. And I had actually, my brother had come out the first two months of me to help me get set up and get going, and then he went back to LA. So there was a couple months there when it was really just me working, and I would go visit my family for four or five days and just monitor from my phone, you know? What? So I wouldn't, you know, I'm not trying to do that all the time, and I did hire people. So, you know, at least someone's on site if something's going wrong. But yeah, the reality of it is that when things are running the way they should, I go in twice a week, maybe a third time during the week to just kind of check on everything, to plant, to harvest, and then I will go to the farmers markets on the weekends and sell there. So that's kind of just picking stuff up and dropping off the end of the day. But in terms of actually going into work, it's probably two or three days a week, usually. Wow. That is incredible. That's like everybody's dream, really figuring it out. So then kind of talking about going from there, do you foresee like once everything is kind of maximized for efficiencies, is this going to be, you know, this one container? Is this going to be able to generate enough revenue to cover costs and pay back on your investment and also provide you and your workers with living wages? Yeah. So the one container probably wouldn't be able to do, you know, me and several workers. It might take a while. But really the idea is to kind of dial it in this year, kind of the first year to figure out what people want, what people like. And honestly, it was a lot of tech that went into it in the first place to figure out how much of that tech we really need and want to put in again if we're going to expand. And, you know, do we want to get the same system again? Do we want to build it out ourselves kind of more specifically to what we need? So that's kind of all what we're still working on and still figuring out. And it is kind of an experimental way to grow out of the walls like this. And, you know, it's kind of interesting to see the way things react to gravity when they have to kind of go up and then out. So it's kind of just a question of figuring out what we like and what we don't like. But the plan is definitely to expand. And again, not necessarily into containers. Containers are really, I think, a really interesting idea and really nice. And if push comes to shove, if you need to pick it up and move it, you can. So that's nice. But then, you know, really kind of the mission behind the whole business is reusing space. That's a big part of it for me. It's just kind of using space that otherwise wouldn't be used for something like this. And so maybe that does mean like a warehouse or something in the future instead if that makes more sense and can be more efficient. And again, it kind of is like, you know, do we want to have a couple containers that have slightly different environments in there? And that could be a nice way to really isolate and maximize for specific crops. Yeah. Very fascinating. So unfortunately, we only have like two minutes left. So why don't we just kind of finish off and without giving away too much of your proprietary visions for the future. But, you know, it seems like you are a futures type thinker. And this is kind of where, you know, impetus for everything. But just kind of thinking about, you know, how far do you think this can go with, because right now you're just kind of testing it out in its one container. And there's some other small farms like Metro Grow with Kerry who's growing inside of an office space, really. Like where do you see this going? Or where do you see the potential? I mean, I think the biggest potential with it is really is the decentralization a little bit, you know, is just kind of to make it more accessible to people so that kind of anyone can grow like this. And maybe, you know, maybe that means restaurants have their own little systems like this. Maybe it means that neighborhoods have their own little systems like this. And if you, once we can kind of dial in the tech and kind of on a big skill, really bring the cost of it down a little bit, it can become pretty turnkey. And it would be great to just see like, you know, each neighborhood kind of has their own and, you know, whether it's like the kids that want to come in and kind of help out with it or there's, you know, a manager or two can kind of keep an eye on it. I think that's really kind of a big potential of it so that everyone can have, you know, really safe food and really local food. And yeah, and not have to worry if it's a dump in rain or it's a super hot summer or whatever, they're still gonna get their salad that week, you know. Or if there's bugs crawling across the greens and all those other issues. Yeah. Well, cool. Lizzie, thank you so much for allowing me to eavesdrop on your conversation last week and coming on the show. Look forward to having you back here maybe in a year or so to talk about where you are with the business. Sure, sounds great. Thank you for having me. And yeah, thank you so much for joining the show and we will be back two weeks from now, Thursday at 4 p.m. Aloha.