 Can we have the lights? Everyone ready? Thank you so much for your patience while we figured out the logistics to make sure that everyone's comfortable the concept of the EDI panel is to bring together a group of people of color who are deaf and deafblind and to Explore some questions Patty and I will be the moderators and I invite you to relax sit back and listen and Those who identify as people of color in the audience if you'd like to make a comment You're welcome to do so, but make sure to follow the communication rules so that everyone Has access and let's demonstrate what that looks like If you come up front Do this rest your hand on Someone's shoulder from the group and that lets them know that you'd like to switch in and participate Okay, is that clear? And then when you're ready to leave the group do this I don't want to come back here anymore. I'm gonna leave for being our model. I love theater people Just the best so dramatic so we're going to be talking about equity diversity and inclusion and And We're ready to start if you need to adjust your seating to be able to see better do what you need to do people Whatever you need to do. We need you. You're part of this process. We need to help each other This is a group effort. So do what you need to do make sure you can see Let's create a space where everyone can feel open and we can be our brilliant creative selves So work together to make sure this is working well for everyone There's also the video screen if you have trouble seeing just look up front and Again, feel free to swap in those of you who are people of color and do it in the way that we just demonstrated. All right Let's get started This is patty speaking Again, just a reminder about a communication rules when the camera appears upon you then you are able to make your comment So the first question Intersectionality many of you have gone through so much in terms of the question of intersectionality But the specific question is how have you experienced Oppression within the deaf community? How would you respond to that? Monique well There are several barriers with within an intersectional experience and I'll speak personally as an Asian-American woman Who is also deaf the first thing that is observed about me in any encounter is first that I am Asian of Asian descent And that I'm a woman and then lastly that I'm deaf So often I find myself split between those groups that experience degrees of oppression And intersectionality essentially means that I cannot separate myself out. I am married interlocked into all of those identities It's a Gordian knot of sorts That can not be severed and who would want that anyway, so that's how I approach the term intersectionality now in terms of today Each community has its own agenda and often agendas have hidden agendas. They may be a fiduciary agenda There are certain stakes that are at risk There are often elite groups that have agendas and how do you fit in amongst those and my experience is that I've been able to participate in all of those groups But each person of color has a very different experience participating in those groups not all persons of color have the same experience in serving themselves into those groups as Sabina might mention So your question was why is there oppression in the deaf community? Can you lean back just so that I can see you? Thank you. You're lovely here though. Don't want to miss anything That's a really difficult question actually I'm deaf. I'm Indian and Muslim so in the world there's a lot of hatred toward groups That I'm a member of and in the deaf community I feel people judge me based on my appearance and The color of my skin sometimes I have experienced that with deaf people and hearing people There's stigma I'm judged for being Muslim in the broader world there's so much stigma about being Muslim and in the smaller community the deaf community there's no positive representation of Muslim deaf people or even in the wider world And it's a really difficult question for me to answer because that lack of representation means Where are people like me sharing our story? It's a lonely experience and that's my life It's really hard. It's a hard question for me to talk about. This is Alexandria speaking Intersectionality That really makes us try to divide ourselves up into different categories and labels and that's a really impossible thing to do because as human beings we are whole people and There's a subtlety of Being human how we look Aesthetically how we behave so I'm female. That's something you can see about me But my race is more ambiguous. It's harder to pin down for people when people look at me they can't Identify my racial identity and I haven't actually talked about what my racial identity is so you still don't know But those snap judgments can't apply those assumptions that happen instantaneously aren't so easy when it comes to my racial identity and so it doesn't coincide with people's vision of what they think I should be so I'm female I'm half Black and half white and I'm deaf I Live in two worlds the hearing world and the deaf world on a daily basis. I walk that line and I'm very custom to Navigating pretty effortlessly between those two worlds and that's just my daily experience in my life But in that navigating to a world I do experience people judging me You know people making me feel like an outsider No matter which group I'm with Because of my affinity with the other group I'm not Totally settled within one identity. I live within two worlds. So I'm judged by both The bottom line is I'm me That's who I am and I can sleep well at night with that and if you don't like it That's okay because I have to live with myself. You don't have to live with being me I do So I think it's important that we remember the whole person and That I want to be a wholesome representative for people like me who can't Be pigeonholed into one label that we defy those labels and we just are who we are So feel free to chime in So yash speaking Identity as a person of color within the deafblind community. It's an interesting thing to speak about and Jasper may add to this To talk about our journey We or I have struggles struggles of oppression Yes, such as Within the Latino community Latinx community Am I enough? Or do I get enough access to language? Do I get access to my traditions of the Latinx community? How am I stigmatized because of such cultural traditions within the Latinx community and there's also Concerns or questions about how I Intersect with the deaf community because I'm a protactile person. I am a protactile deafblind person So there are so many things to to speak about and I wish I had time to unpack all of it but People don't take the time to unpack all these things that I'm bringing up and it does take time and I can unpack those things later for anyone who wants to speak to me directly about it But there are so many stories that get untold So it really comes down to the essential question of humanity and How do I interact with all of those worlds and Often these worlds try to Separate to me out and that's where my struggle is trying to be a part of all but all of those pull me in several different directions And there's also always an interest to communicate with everyone. Yes To be included. Yes, there's always an appetite to be accumulated in more communities But I do understand that there's going to be oppression as part of that effort to be a part of those communities And as Alexandra and Sabina mentioned We do want to have those connections, but a part of pursuing those connections is the experience of kinds of oppression This is Jasper Boy, this makes me reflect on a lot that I've been through and I remember when I first came to this country My family first came here. That was a time of huge challenge for me my family didn't speak English and I had No language until I entered the school for the deaf and everybody was signing around me and I was completely overwhelmed and it was pure culture shock and I was Used to communicating trying to lip-read Spanish and at that time I had more vision And I could try to do that, but then I came from and Lip-reading an oral background and entered the school for the deaf where Signing was happening all around me and I didn't know the language, but I was surrounded by all white deaf people at that school And I felt looked down upon because of my language because I didn't have the same level of English ability at that time that they had and I was judged for it and when I think about oppression I think about language oppression and how people have Privilege because they have access to the English language and I was seen as less than because I didn't have that and as a deaf-blind person that's My identity and along with that comes Barriers and frustration and oppression systematic oppression deaf-blind people Experience a very white world often when we're accessing services and trying to participate in things and we want to be true to our Hispanic culture, which is very physical and a warm tactile experience and You know, that's not something that white people are accustomed to usually so it it's a it's a cultural difference, right? So, you know the way we communicate People can be rubbed the wrong way by because they just don't understand that that's our norm, you know, we're very physical We're very expressive You know, we wear our heart on our sleeve and and people think whoa, you know, are you angry at me and can misread? our cues because of the cultural difference and that's something that we struggle with and it's a scary thing to have vision loss to not be able to see and to feel that you're Being misunderstood Especially as a Latino man people seem to perceive us as aggressive when we're not necessarily aggressive. We're just affectual so I fear that being misunderstood and being mislabeled and misunderstood and and ostracized because of my membership and In a group and I don't feel comfortable in those circumstances you know and You know an example, you know, I feel like I can be myself with Yash because she understands me We're both deafblind. We're both from the same community the Latinx community and we have that common experience and so I feel home, you know, and I'm talking with her and so It's a struggle. It's a struggle really is Just take a moment Patty speaking I have two siblings who are deaf our parents are hearing My parents learned sign which is wonderful that I had that access to communication at home Many in the deaf community do not Who have been mainstream? They only get exposure to sign if they're in school But I did find my deaf identity In college because I participated in many student organizations Deaf student organizations and I realized that in those deaf student organizations there still was not enough representation of people of color Or women in leadership roles in those student organizations and that's still a circumstance today. You might agree Well, you're talking specifically about Asian women. Yes in Southeast Asian as well so it's not often that there are individuals like myself that have chosen a path of leadership and Actually when we are in that position we're perceived as inspirational But we actually are inspired to actually take leads in terms of other artistic activities festivals events etc But it's a lonely place to be it's an isolating place to be and that's where I encounter most of my intersectional issues Especially when it comes to my work in terms of it being recognized as a person of color I don't want my work to perceive be perceived only from the white majority view and Sabina has something to add one thing I've noticed in the deaf community is White deaf people seem to fixate on one Part of their identity being deaf. That's the one thing that gets all the focus and And When you want to talk about another identity People like me, you know, I'm brown-skinned. I'm Muslim and I don't want to isolate myself with the deaf community I want to be a part of lots of communities and cultures and I get frustrated when deaf people just want to Be with other deaf people only and isolate our community that to me is lonely Monique speaking. It's interesting Working with TCG a theater communications group conference and organization the headquarters is in New York I've been hired to be one of the co-facilitators of Their EDI programming equity diversity and inclusion Pardon me if I haven't paced myself. Well, I'll slow down a bit Again, I've been hired to be Co-facilitator for the equity diversity and inclusion component of TCG two years ago, there was a National conference in Portland, Oregon The organization focuses entirely on theater There wasn't a significant population of person with disabilities there. I really there's perhaps Less than a handful if not two people of color present Out of 700 and there was no comment about disability at all and marginal comment about people of color in those conversations So disability was marginalized excluded not considered but more often than not the conversations Rested on the issues of people of color more Now I wouldn't say there was a complacency in the room, but there was a speaking up happening in the room There was no passiveness It was not allowed to be Something that was swept under the carpet. This was an opportunity for folks to speak up And I was a facilitator of that conversation and there was a lot of question in the room about what we do based upon what we see and Often there were individuals in the room who may have had disabilities But they did not want to speak upon it and they would not consider themselves as Disabled and often this happens within the deaf community in terms of the majority perspective and how we fit into the world we avoid talking about Disability or folks saying that I don't consider myself deaf or I don't consider myself hard of hearing Well, can we actually collaborate as opposed to? avoiding certain labels We know the metaphor that only one strand of one thread is considered weak But when you weave them all together there is more strength and that density So in our capacity of aligning ourselves with these different populations we can be stronger We can be louder the visibility can be augmented Those are my thoughts This is Alexandria the idea of collaboration, you know, that's a Great metaphor to think about the one thread being weak, but many threads woven together become strong and That's I think what we're doing in this room, right? and the way we're Running this activity with all the observers looking on These are allies What does it mean to be an ally? and how can we Maximize the opportunity to Continue to make an impact with the strength of our numbers that we've started having here this weekend so Collaboration How can we come to a shared understanding? So that we're all on the same page to move forward and make change in the community whether it's in our employment or in our daily life experiences Everybody has their individual journey, but how can we come together and create death gain and how do we spread more awareness about that and and How can we take this? experience of being in this unique space where we've all come together and create international impact, how can we design things for the future and Give credit where it's due for the community where the work is springing from Including deafblind people. I mean we're learning so much from this experience as we go through it So not only as a deaf community, but also with our allies You know, how can we work together to just make things better? I? Want to shift a little bit to talking about intersectionality and the word inclusion Patty and I Don Jenny Burley Bailey Patty and I were talking about this with her and we were talking about the difference between intersectionality and inclusion in theater in the theater mainstream process, how can we apply this to Practice in American theater. She was interviewed for a recent project Monique. I think You were a part of that would you want to share some more about that? Feel free to add to this so dawn. What's her name sign? Okay. Thank you She was a part of Hamlet the Shakespeare production and She played Horatio in that production and when she was interviewed I'm sorry. Let me repeat the name of the play for the interpreter Hamlet and the character that she played was Horatio and She was interviewed for some type of media outlet radio or an article and I have notes based on that interview and her response the director was Ravi our AVI is the name of the director and In that interview Don was asked about the difference between intersectionality and inclusion in theater and she said that in Inclusion involves inclusive thinking and what that means is That people come together and focus on a problem and try to target a particular issue Or a problem to be solved and the focus is on the individual that's different From the majority in a certain setting and that becomes the problem to be solved the person who is different The key word being different on the other hand the entire Approach in terms of into intersectionality is completely different than that It takes into consideration each person everyone is different and We're all the same in that way and people come together as a group to address a common challenge in a mindful way And in a way that is transparent people are honest with each other throughout the process and That's the difference. So when you think about inclusion and inclusive thinking again, that is fixating on Oh, we have a problem here because this person is different. How can we solve that problem and make it work in? Intersectionality is how can we bring everyone together in a way that works for all? So, what do you think about that? Just pausing for a moment Monique speaking looking back at my past experience. I do feel that I have practiced that Approach of intersectionality. There wasn't necessarily a word for it and I'm looking back into the 92 when I was involved with The production our town this was a production that was produced in Milwaukee rep Milwaukee Repertory Theater The director was not deaf. However, the director did work Collaborate with Lee with NTD in the past. So the director was not unfamiliar with deaf culture in fact that that individual became the artistic director for the MRT in Milwaukee Repertory Theater as an aside Martha survived the Martha's Vineyard story correction Martha's Vineyard story Five deaf actors as I segue to talk about that five deaf actors were hired For this production of The Martha's Vineyard story correction in the back of our mind while we were in the production of our town The Martha's Vineyard story was the subtext that we were operating off of while we were in this production So as we're working on the production, we know that the director had this artistic vision of what was to appear on the stage All five of us deaf actors again had this subtext of Martha's Vineyard the story there and that in Martha's Vineyard Folks a new sign but on stage The majority of the hearing actors did not know sign language of course now Because equity rules are what they are we had a very limited amount of time So there wasn't a consideration that the actors all learn sign language, but we actually did figure out a way to insert Some sign language instruction as a part of the day So that the hearing actors Apart from their equity bound hours Participated in sign language classes with enthusiasm. It was wonderful because the question was posed and There was a rotation of the deaf actors Teaching some of the other actors sign language. It was a crash course Within two weeks they were doing beautifully signing so wonderfully. It was my first and I think best Experience in a union theater. We know how union theaters are But definitely that was a great example to me of an intersectional approach where difference was not the focus but Everyone was involved and there wasn't Where's the interpreter relying upon a secondary or another interlocutor or another mediator? All of that went way down because people were able to communicate with each other directly and of course the interpreters were happy to see that happen This is Alexandria That's a great example Yeah, and I think we can relate to that experience and that's the type of thing we hope to see happen more and more That's what intersectionality in theater can look like So it starts with an attitude and how do we make that attitude? Flourish, I think it starts with the director right in the theater world. That's It trickles down from there so What's your perspective as a working artist, you know, where have you seen? that level of acceptance and that open attitude and Where does that acceptance come from? How does it start? I'm blessed to be one of the co-founders of deaf spotlight and Then from a to z at all levels from our administrative staff to the board to casting We have the support of involvement of deaf artists through and through So when we think about the notion of you know, deaf heart or deaf centric empathy It's an automatic thing We're designed to be inclusive when it comes to interpreter access or direct communication access. There's no question Often the audiences that attend our productions have never met a deaf person before hearing theaters very different than deaf theater and often when they see These different levels of professionals and practitioners who are deaf who work in the theater Then we often get opportunities to work in other places by these other Hearing theater companies. There are so many aspects to the production process whether it be technical theater other parts of the production process We've created space where others can Be seen apart and through our oppression This is Alexandria Hold on one second. Let's take a moment to switch interpreters Okay, I Want to hear Jasper's comment and then return to my comment. So I'll hold and pass for now Jasper I'd like to share my experience thinking about theater and Looking back on my experiences Sometimes shows are advertised on Facebook And that's how people find out something's happening, but what about deafblind people, you know, how do we? attend a publicized event we need advocacy for services Dawes is an organization D a w s That can help do that advocacy But it involves a lot of work Logistics and planning we can't just show up I've done that before where I just decided to show up for an audition and you know, the director was caught off guard that a deafblind person was showing up for an audition and Yes, I faced barriers and it was hard, but I took a deep breath and I just thought okay I'm going to explain my culture and and I and what I I needed and we Brainstormed how to figure it out without using an interpreter without needing an SSP And We had to make changes to the stage so that it was safe but I had support in physically moving around the space safely and learned my way around the stage and Practiced and during rehearsal I learned things tactically and people supported me in doing that and we figured out Some cues and in the beginning during the first week or so it was really tough But we figured it out as we went through the process and in the end the outcome was successful and We were able to break out of the old habits where you had to have a hearing actor shadowing a deaf actor and Doing it the old way we were able to innovate and figure out a new system in a way that that worked That's outstanding it's making all these other ideas bubble forth and I've actually changed some of the comments But I wanted to talk about based upon what you just said Jasper It seems that a key virtue is that we have to be assertive if there's a fire in your gut We have to move with it. It's this concept this notion of speaking up. Yeah It already exists that it being the idea is the innovation But getting it out there to present ourselves in a space in place that is equitable starts with speaking up So we have to find certain ways to not only speak up once But also continue that because we know that the barriers of the obstructions to our innovation are going to continue to come up So we need to find ways to get through that and perhaps an institution that we're working with isn't ready Perhaps we can move on until that barrier is moved Then we move on to another entity that might be a little bit more ready And this is something that happens to me all the time in my interactions with hearing people or hearing institutions, but The point is that not everyone has the answer Often they think we may have the complete answer, but that's not necessarily so We always are on the spot to remind people hearing people About how to work with the deaf person I Do it all the time. I'm your source. I'm your answer. I have some consistency. I'm used to hearing people It's not about you having to figure out how to work with the deaf people. I know how to work with you follow my lead I can educate you and I can encourage you and Often the response is when we give them a drop of advice It says oh, you know what that's so obvious the common sense I hadn't even thought of that and we want to give these hearing people that opportunity to have that light bulb go off So the approach is ongoing. There will always be some kind of obstruction So we all always need to maintain responding with some kind of resolution so that allows everyone to grow allows all the possibilities to happen Allows for the catharsis to happen for each and every one of us in that community in that space As opposed to just the fractured spaces Fractured spaces isolate people we are not alone So we need to elevate and open ourselves up to these other identities is specifically in this case people of color being present to tell Each story not represent one not every one representing an entire group. There are different individual stories And I add something before we are replaced by others from the audience. I want to make a comment about Intersectionality and inclusion. I've been involved in lots of different festivals, you know fringe involves People of color and it's very diverse and supportive of deaf talent in theater and I've been invited to perform at Festivals because they want to include deaf artists and Though that type of festival tends to be very intersectional in Their approach. They have all kinds of different shows About different communities whether it's the deaf community or the black community gay community all kinds of different communities and the whole thing is designed around the idea of intersectionality and I'm thinking that might be an Opportunity for the deaf community to create a festival Again that show me how to sign that sign. It's new for me intersectionality. Yeah, thanks but to create a festival We're hearing Artists and deaf artists can come together and share stories and performances to Decrease the isolation and make people feel welcome Okay, thank you. I Appreciate that comment, but I am also mindful of the other voices in the room who haven't been part of this circle yet And I want to make sure that people know they're invited in But with that said You wanted to make a comment Patty oh Yash Talking about inclusion. There are many ideas about Including or being included in theater one theater company wanted to set up a space For us to fulfill our dreams and fulfill our vision of what inclusive theater Would look like and we want to be more collaborative But the question is with who who can we collaborate with who's ready who's willing? Who wants to be a part of this supportive inclusion environment? Just where are they? Who's ready to do the hard work? This is subina With the fringe festival. I was just talking about There's a special selection process of a group It's like a lotto where They want to make sure that they're choosing people who represent lots of different groups And so it's not just deaf, but it's you know gay black all kinds of different groups And there are people from Toronto at the Toronto Festival They are eager to support Deaf artists they want to include deaf artists in that diversity If I may this fringe festival is it a national festival? Oh, it's worldwide And it tours to different cities yes, and my point is Indian black Gay all kinds kinds of groups have been represented, but not deaf historically. They're interested, but you know, I'm thinking why not Get more deaf people involved in the fringe festival and that would be an opportunity for us to show our work So the question Stays there, you know, is it a why aren't deaf people Applying or we can flip that to what can we do to encourage deaf people to apply? I'm bringing this up today because I think it's an opportunity for us to approach the fringe festival with this new idea That they may be Really interested in pursuing. I think it's something that it's an idea that we could Look into and and do together. I certainly think it's a great idea So these this diversity lotto It's government funded There the government wants to support Disabled artists having more opportunity so it's part of that effort And some people see government support as a good thing and some people well, that's open to discussion This is Patty. I haven't been a part of the fringe festival But my understanding of that is it's an opportunity for new people new directors producers people who haven't had a chance to make a name For themselves to gain some exposure Opportunities, but yeah, I think it's a great idea. I think it's an opportunity Okay, we have someone else Switching into the group a couple of new members of the circle is the camera in position This is Fred. Okay. Go ahead. I could stay here or you could have Interpretation you like me to stay you're doing great Seems I'm not going anywhere. I'll do my best. It's working Here we go. I'm African American and I identify myself as African American Because that's how I was raised to Acknowledge that identity first and foremost now as I get has as I got older I began to consider myself as deaf first and foremost And I began a struggle of Identity within my family and I felt that my deaf identity Was not getting recognized and that began the battle within my family about the identities that I lived with until again, this was a maturing journey Until I Resolved with who I was in terms of my identity my culture as a deaf person and The deaf community who often would perceive me first by the color of my skin and not my common deaf identity with them first It began an additional struggle of trying to fit in with my new found family I'll give you a concrete example Often in the deaf community when someone is born deaf there's celebration but in my African American community the celebration of Identity as a deaf person was not there deafness is stigmatized often and the African American community but It's a male dominated world. So I had that advantage of being born male But the disadvantage is I'm a black male in this world. So it was a constant struggle of Leveraging one identity versus another clearly not one of them can be separated out of me So I've resolved To say that my first identity is that of the one that is seen first that I am a black person second to that I'm a deaf person and third I'm male, but now I Do not have to separate those identities because I accept that there's a unity in the term being black deaf Which is who I am? And I want to populate this conversation with that word Black death one word So in my black deafness, I say to you my people was up. It's good to see you Thank you who are welcoming in this space. I want you to feel me I mean literally feel me and understand what I'm saying you're feeling me. I am not going to be this passive academic signer That's not how I roll and if you can't get with it. That's on you Another word. I want to populate the space with is The problem is it their problem or my problem? The answer to the question is implied in the way I said it now I'm black deaf and I have an accountability to educate people about me to be a model For my community and other communities like mine Now in the world of theater Often people only see the deaf identity on the stage and ASL ASL everything's about ASL and I say hold on Where are the other identities that are clearly on the stage, but we're not using the words to talk about We're not being specific. We're not specifying the things that are being celebrated on that stage the Asian identity African-American identity Latinx identity is also on that stage, but you're not saying it There's no such thing as the deaf community. There's no one deaf community So what we have to do as Alexandra said Be assertive Create the shift to create the space that we want to be in and if we want diverse communities We got a push for it and not wait for something to be given to us and be Complacent in our own little space in our own little world We need to get out of our bubbles and be present in certain spaces and that includes within our deaf community That also needs to learn about our intersectional identity. So it's not necessarily a my problem It's a the problem that we need to address and this is the right time to do it to define What intersectionality is it's multi-layered and in that definition There's no purity to it it's not a default definition it also changes and evolves and when we're talking about the theater specifically deaf theater By default it must mean that there are all these other additional layers into it and that the definition of those layers Trickles up. There is no elite determining who we are we identify ourselves. We push up Change happens both ways people and it doesn't stop. There's no checklist The work continues. We're never at a place of being complete. It's an ongoing dialogue. It's always active It's alive now. I'm gonna stop. I could go on. I don't know how long I could do this two-handed thing With love I'm just saying with love. I'm just being real. I'm with you. I'm with you. Thank you beautiful Can I say something? Josh and Jasper book. Yeah, that's okay. Wait, let's switch seats we need to Change the setup Actually, another person has joined the group. We're making everyone aware. Great. Okay this is Jasper boy, man. I related to that. Whoo Yeah, you know, I get it. You're talking about being a black man. I Get it, you know and to add to that protactile, you know Communicating by touch You guys know most interpreters are women, right? That's just how it is and you know, I Got my natural way of communicating my language and Use of the sense of touch is is just part of that that's just central, you know, that's how I Experience my world, right? But I got to think about sexual harassment Because I communicate by touch and I'm comfortable with touch and you know, that's part of the human experience for me And and I have that open way about me Well, that's you know, I got to think about being perceived as a threat potentially as a person of color who's male Whoa, what about that? You know am I a target for being perceived as potentially dangerous to a woman? I Need to have physical contact with my interpreters who are women What do you guys think about that? Just give us a moment to reorient Getting to Jasper's comment about being a target My answer is yes I get stigmatized and targeted the same way when it comes to interacting with other female interpreters There's an avoidance a desire not to be in proximity to necessarily me or the things that I'm involved in And it's definitely a conflict It's a circumstance when direct communication needs to happen But an avoidance inevitably comes up and that's a barrier definitely a barrier as as a person as humans we Want to show that we are part of the whole but When we're assertive then we're seen as aggressive or conflicting or agitators and People want to avoid agitation, but we want to persist to be involved and connected, but that causes further division so How can we support each other Through the complacency and there's always going to be something there's always going to be something We're not looking for the perfect ideal. We have to expect some of this friction, but thank you Natasha's in the room and Natasha has some things that I'm gonna swap out with her. I just want to make a short Comment, you know, I there are two words Black and deaf that were put together to become one word. That's interesting deaf-blind Latinx I want to see that come together in the same way, you know, we can't pull apart these words They really do belong together like one word. I Just wanted to mention that And before we go ahead It's very important that there is no separation between The terms deaf-blind. It's one word as Fred had mentioned earlier. There's black dev There's these identities so in separating that that's not appropriate to separate and they must be together Thank you for emphasizing that. Hi. I'm Natasha. Oh my god. Oh Damn, this is hard. They got people holding on to my hands while I'm signing. Okay Let me try this Natasha is my name and I just wanted to add to what Fred said. Okay, this is new for me My experience is different than his my family's from Africa Sierra Leone and I'm a first-generation American. I understand identity because I already know my cultural identity my family comes from Africa my name is Natasha and My mom my mother taught me about who I am as a being as a human being I Know about my culture food Music respect for other people My mother taught me how to treat other people as equals as a deaf person My mother had no problem whatsoever with me being deaf There was respect for my language. I can talk. I can sign. It's all good and Now those are my tools. I can use my voice as a tool and you know for me, it's not about Status or anything. It's just a tool. It helps me in communicating with hearing people As an African-American woman, I know I'm an African-American woman. I don't need to explain that to other people You know, I don't have to tell people what that means. I know who I am and I know what it means to me and how Important that is to me. I think when I meet someone the first thing they notice First time they meet me is the color of my skin and when I went to college. It was the first time I really noticed that my skin color was even something to think about that it was even an issue and I Talked with my mom about it and she said yeah, that's something you're gonna face in the world as a black woman As a black deaf woman, so yeah I'm trying not to get too emotional here Thank you. I'm sorry. I'm crying. It's hard It's just because it means so much to me You know who I am my identity and the opportunity to try to Explain that to other people. I don't usually need to do that It's very special Especially in this world theater, you know, it's hard as a black deaf woman in this world To be an actress, you know when you have a passion and you want to show what you got and You have talent to share Then you face the same barriers over and over and over because you're different and you don't fit the norm You know, you don't do this right or you're different in that way You know and it's hard to hit that wall over and over and never give up It takes a toll you get tired and it does make you feel like crying But you have to be strong. You have to keep going not just for yourself, but for other people, too And so how can we? Change things for people of color who are deaf performers deaf artists We need to focus on Making a space where people can be welcome to share their talent You know, that's what it's about. It's not ego. Oh, I want to be famous. I want to be an actor. No We need to give people the opportunity to show who they are and what they bring to the table So to add to what Natasha said amen. Amen It's all heart all amen to everything that was said there We need to create a space. We have created space to have our voices illuminated Our heart illuminated we put ourselves out there to be seen not to be token And it's not binary. It's not this or that black or white. It's everything all of it tools that's a key word. That's a fabulous way to Talk about our abilities our gifts that we each bring We each bring our gifts and to use the tools to Help us navigate and thank you for saying it that way. So it's critical for everyone Knowing one we have so little time so much to say and so much more is has emerged from this conversation if You want to express yourself some more Please take advantage of the opportunity to go to the reflection booth at the rear of the room now or during the break There are several opportunities to do that After this session, so please don't forget that there's more to say and there's a place to say it I how do you follow up on that Natasha? You just said it. You are the punctuation. However There are still some ongoing issues and some practical things to talk about inspiration porn namely inspiration porn So that may be unfamiliar to some what inspiration porn means But I feel safe secure to talk about it in this space In the world, especially on stages or visible spaces There are one or two things happening and this will be something very familiar to many of you I'm getting some laughs here because some of my colleagues know what I'm talking about and Maybe Monique do you want to unpack it or Yash? Do you want to unpack it? Okay We'll let one of you take a stab at inspiration porn and what that means and how we speak to it Well, first I want to just acknowledge Natasha. Whoo. I felt that deep deep in me and I think it's important to you know say that and You see the way that the communication happened with Jasper and me on each side of Natasha and the way we were connecting and Channeling feedback as she was talking we feel part of this We we can feel what you're saying and it We're part of this process Completely because of the way this is happening. I'm not sure I think sometimes people think You know that deafblind people can't do things stuff happens like maybe we drop our cane and You know 99% of the time there's somebody there who wants to grab it and pick it up for you and You know, they expect me to say thank you but you know what I do is I drop it again and then they're like wait what and You know am I always supposed to be saying thank you for? People when they want to help me, you know, maybe I dropped it on purpose And so, you know, we drop our cane again and again to you know Make a point and this connects to inspiration porn because people just want to feel good that they're helping us You know, and that's not what I want is to go through my life saying thank you to everybody all the time Can I talk about what I think that means, you know, is this your sign for porn? Okay? Inspiration porn. What kind of porn are we talking about? There's lots of ways we could sign that, huh? Okay This is Sabina, okay. Well Yeah, I'm from India So, you know people think we're dirty sometimes they think oh, that's a dirty poor country, right these Stereotypes and film can reinforce those stereotypes, right and so, you know There's the savior complex like oh, you know, I'm the white man who's gonna come in and you know save you poor dirty Indian People and clean clean you up and show you the right way You know, I'm here to save the day especially for you deaf people, you know And this stuff makes hearing audiences feel good about themselves, right? Well, they watch the movie they watch the play they go home feeling inspired and happy like everything's perfect in the world And there are no problems and they feel so good, but fuck that shit. I'm sorry, but that's just not the real world I When it comes to the word porn, I mean there are multiple interpretations of however Let's focus on inspiration porn in the theater and what that means It's a burning hot topic, right? You know How does the world perceive us? That's where this inspiration porn issue is really coming from and how are we seeing? And then I'm speaking for myself as A black deaf man one word don't get it twisted black deaf Every time I'm on the stage in the theater space. There's this tendency To let's say select a woman of color on the stage to be the the stereotype The weaker of the two sexes. Oh, and if they're disabled, oh even better Because when you look at it from the predominantly white male perspective, oh, this is the one that needs saving So let's put a disabled Woman, oh, let's even make them a person of color to make it more of a tragic theatrical experience Now look at who's controlling the world. I hate to say in the deaf theater world is going to be white deaf men predominantly So if they're operating off of that construct that's pervasive in the world then what kind of character is going to be on the stage And I'll just put it right out there Let's say it's an African-American woman a particular character or the person that needs to be slave a saved Let's say it's Hamlet. Let's talk about Hamlet. Can that person? Hamlet be a black person Do we have to base it in certain constructs of Western history? Okay, that a black person or a person of that skin color can't be in that particular character in the leading role Wait, hold on a second. Let me just ask you. This is Alexandria You're talking about deaf theater Fred Let me just interrupt you to ask. I'm curious Have you had the opportunity to prove people wrong? You know by taking on characters that people are surprised to see go to a black man Yeah, let me talk about that my journey Has changed the way I find work and that journey has Focused me on creating my own work to create spaces and change people's minds about us And that has been done by creating my own work as opposed to waiting to be cast into something traditional The white construct no I don't want to necessarily spend most of my good energy my creative energy in that space of trying to create or adapt for them I'm creating my own stuff Which then segues and influences the traditional space To change the vision so I'm a black deaf man changing the space that way so it's basically about changing original works and not being Married to the script as it comes to you But being able to innovate and make change to that Creating my own work creating my own scripts that I direct that I manage that I produce that I do all the adaptations I design a to z and That way I'm giving people of color creating opportunities for people of color That are not based upon the male dominant power construct The white male dominant power construct And forgive me your name again. Yash. Yash. Yes so challenges is and how we get that representation in Some of the plays I want to produce Andrew Foster for example the story of Andrew Foster Can be played by anybody it doesn't have to be a deaf person to play that role It could be white deaf deaf blind actor could be any of I as long as we're telling the story of Andrew Foster Anybody can be portrayed because the feelings those natural human feelings the spirit of the character can be portrayed by a Person who can act so that's one way. I'm changing things. I'm shifting it in the theater. That's how I'm doing it Thank you Fred This is Alexandria So we're talking about inspiration porn and I think that You know as soon as that word was said people Sat up straight and we're like what are we talking about here? Let's be clear what we're talking about the idea of inspiration porn has to do with outsiders coming in and their perception of a community that is different not one that they're familiar with and the idea that that outsider wants to save The members of that community and it's not necessarily for the good, right? they think that The change needs to happen to the group that they're perceiving Because it needs to be fixed to be like the norm, right? There's a lack of respect for intersectionality and and difference and there's the idea that change is needed because people need to assimilate That's where it's coming from it comes from a Desire to help but that help is a double-edged sword and so Fred was talking about roles in contemporary works and Theater is an opportunity to challenge people's assumptions and make them see things in a new way Mixed-blood theater company in Minnesota is an example they put on a play called gruesome Just gruesome that was the name of the play and it focused on injuries Injuries on the playground It's a two-character play in the script The characters are written as a male and a female and it spans a 30-year friendship So that's the way the script was written Written by Rajiv Joseph What mixed-blood theater did? Was to make that play a death play So I was chosen for the role and I worked With an LGBTQ person as the second character both of us are deaf and we took on those roles and made them our own and Changed the original script There was nothing particular to the deaf experience that was in that theater, but we performed it in our language and We made it accessible For sighted people There was no interpreter at all But we made it accessible the way we used our language and Our skills as deaf people to make it visually accessible for everyone was very rich and It was a demonstration of how you can take an original script and you don't have to ask the question You know, oh Who can play this role? No, we can fight for people to expand their ideas about who can take on what role and anyone can have The opportunity an earlier question about what productions have been done That are classic Shakespearean pieces in which I performed I was in a production of King Lear Michael Kahn was the director the vision of this production Was that Cordelia was deaf? But that there was a counterpart Spoken English counterpart and an American sign language counterpart There was a backstory that was created for these identities You know now King Lear is a busy guy, right? And that Cordelia was raised by Lear So we had this particular counterpart character the the fool. Let's say maybe the ego of Lear be a musician That would also represent in English The lines that I would sign on stage So the issue of deafness was not an issue This was a character as it was developed now Regardless of the fact that we did not make this a deaf role There was still an opportunity for inspiration porn there that the audience would perceive This particular role the deaf person the the one signer on the stage is something to be inspired by and unique And look what they did to include that person That's always a struggle that because you're gonna have an audience who is perceiving sign language as something as a novel idea or exotic One actor in the production wanted to sign certain parts of it So this opened up another possibility of how to get this actor in A position to be in the space to not think about me as Different as the only one needing to sign, but how can other actors be involved? And it added an additional layer of complexity So I was not no longer Concerned about that layer of complexity. I don't necessarily like being the only deaf actor on the stage. I'm done with that, but We should go to a space of having other deaf actors in these productions and not just Stop at the casting when you have that one deaf actor perhaps two or three or understudies as deaf actors should be involved This is Alexandria. Oh, I know we're just getting going here We have so much to talk about and unfortunately I need to say it's time for a break But I know there are so many more things people want to share So please use the reflection booth to share those Gems with us. So I want to say thank you to everyone both in the circle and in the wider audience for your attention and your Participation and this is not the end. This is just the beginning We need to embrace our differences Passionately embrace our differences. So thank you and now we'll have a ten minute break Take care of what you need to take care of and Then we'll set things up for the next part. All right Very good