 Okay, so Joel, lots of people in permaculture want to get onto the land, so what advice would you have to them? Well, fortunately with the kind of information dense, light level infrastructure we can create now from electric fencing to nursery shade cloth to, you know, lath on bandsaw mills, we can create totally portable infrastructure, essentially creating a mobile farm. And that completely disengages land from the farm. One of the big fallacies we have is that you have to own the land in order to farm. And of course land is extremely capital intensive, making it very difficult for a young person to get in. If young people can't get in, old people can't get out. But if you can create everything portable, then you can be any place. You can be on a rented place, a friend's place, an uncle's place, you know, you can squat, you can whatever, but the point is that all you have to have is a place. And so now you can build a farm, for example, a pastured poultry under somebody's orchard. You can build pastured poultry on a dairy or a beef cattle farm. If the housing and the shelters and the control systems, electric fence, I mean, you can put pigs in a wood lot on somebody else's place where they're running a timbering operation. And you can grow pigs in the woods while the trees are growing with just a wheelbarrow full of electric fence and an energizer and a little water buggy, you know, with a gravity fed water system of some sort. These are very, very simple low capital systems that allow a young person to be able to get in with a low capital investment. So Joel, could you tell me, what have been your big influences? Well, of course, you know, the number one influence on me was my dad for sure. And he was, you know, he was an early adherent to ecological farming, the controlled grazing out of, from Andre Voizine. And then after him, it would certainly be, you know, the shoulders on which we all stand. Bill Mollison, I mean, I read his Plowboy interview in Mother Earth News in like 1974 or something. I was in high school and I just remember reading it and just, yes, this is it, you know, and that was my first introduction to that concept. And ever since then, there's been this never ending, how can we, how can we put more different kind of species together and can we, you know, can we make these beautiful complex relationships? Certainly Sir Albert Howard got me into composting, understanding the beauty of that, including J.I. Rodale and the complete book of composting. And then you've got Charlie Walters at Acres USA, who, you know, who that magazine for 25 years has been just relentlessly banging away at soil, soil. How do we, how do we create healthy soil? Alan Nation, editor of Stotman Grass Farmer has, has, has gone into the grass farming thing and the, and the finances, you know, Stan Parsons, Alan Savry with Holistic Management. And then, you know, I read a lot of business books, you know, and, and I find that one of the weakness of farmers is that it's so much in our blood that we don't want to mix the blood with the business. You know, it's almost like, and, and it is a business though. It's not only a business, but it is a business. And so I really enjoy, you know, doing gross margin analysis and, and, and trying to, you know, tease out, as we would say, suss out the, you know, the margins on the different enterprises and set up those books that way. Okay. So that's really interesting. Can you say a bit more about how you measure the financial viability of your businesses? How do you know if they're going to turn a profit? Well, the way we, the way we decide that, that an enterprise is going to work is by categorizing our accounting. So we have, I don't know what, 300 categories of accounting. So we don't have just, for example, a, a chick, a chick category. We separate whether it's a broiler chick, a layer chick, or, or a turkey chick poll, okay? And, and that way we can, we can tease out each one of those enterprises, turkeys, eggs, ready to lay bullets, broilers. We can tease those out and, and get a gross margin analysis. And it, it helped, and there are some enterprises that we haven't been able to make successful. You know, Pheasants was one. We tried three years, couldn't make it successful. So, you know, we got rid of that enterprise, you know, there are absolutely things we've done. But knowing, knowing each enterprise's, you know, profit and loss figures helps us to make that decision. In permaculture, a big emphasis on observation and design. How do you do that? What's your, what's the way you observe? Well, I would say that from a design standpoint, what keeps us awake at night is trying to figure out a more a simpler way to do something. I think, I think, you know, the, the challenge of our lives is that we make them, we make them complicated when they don't have to be complicated. We, you know, we tell lies, we have agendas, we cover up, you know, we're not honest with our spouse, you know. And then, and then we have to pay for it later, you know, it complicates things. And so, we have been very blessed in that we have not been wealthy. We have not been moneyed people. And so, a lot of, you know, necessity is the mother of invention. So, a lot of what we've done has been in trying to figure out a lower cost way to get something done. This is certainly how I came up with the, with the Piggerators, with the Pig Compost was, you know, I didn't have a front-end loader at the time. And I, the first year I did that composting, I physically shoveled, you know, whatever, 20 tons of compost down the middle of the barn and made it. Well, it's a lot of work, can we do this simpler? And my neighbor had a front-end loader, so then I started hiring him, and then we made these Windrow compost piles. But that was still double handling. I had to pay the neighbor. And we do this a different way. And so, a lot of this is simply, how can we simplify this and do it easier, letting animals do the work, closing the carbon loopholes, not paying anything off the farm? How can we generate our own fertilizer and not buy anything from outside? Those kinds of closing the loops and doing it yourself, you kind of a DIY kind of thing, has, you know, really driven a lot of the innovation. I think that actually a lot of the innovative design grows out of some very basic principles. For example, if you assume that animals need to be on pasture and they move, then obviously you need a very simple control mechanism, electric fence if you will, and B, you need portable shelter. And so it's not that I'm that clever, it's just that you start from a couple of basic assumptions and then design grows out of that philosophy, that pattern. Great. Well, it's very inspiring. How do people find out more? Well, the best way to find out more about us is to read one of my current eight books. I've got a ninth one coming out this summer, Fields of Farmers. And then, of course, we have a website. We're launching the Polyface Primer, how-to series in literally a couple of weeks. And that can be acquired on the website as well. So primarily go to the website polyfacefarms.com or just put in Polyface and it'll come right up, Polyface Farms, and you can see anything that you have there. There's a lot of YouTube stuff and a lot of spontaneous things on there, too.