 What's up, everybody? Ricky Kruth here. Welcome back to another incredible interview on the zero to diamond show. We're reducing the failure rate in the real estate industry, one agent at a time. Hope everybody's doing super well. Today I have a really special guest. Two people that are making a huge impact in the industry, Mr. Michael Carr and Tanya Eberhardt from Brand Face. These guys specialize in personal branding. Get this just for real estate agents. So how you guys doing? Fantastic. Great. Thank you so much. We're so happy to be here. Absolutely. So I guess let me just dive in here. Tell me a little bit about you guys like where you came from and then we'll dive into this personal branding topic. You got it. Okay. I'll start with that. I came from a humble career in vacuum cleaner sales, Ricky. Okay. It all started. I was selling vacuum cleaners door to door. I did that for three years to pay most of my way through college and I learned the basic principles of personal branding there. Basically, instead of just walking up to a door and saying, hey, you want to see a vacuum cleaner demonstration, I had to learn to craft a story coming up to the door, right? And then one day I demonstrated and sold a vacuum to an engineer that worked for a radio station and he said, you know, there's a sales position available at the radio station. You should try out. Fast forward 18 years later, I was still in media sales and that was really where personal branding really just kind of came true for me. It became a passion of mine because I noticed right away that local business owners in the area were like rock stars. And those were the ones who were the voices of their own radio commercials. They were in their newspaper ads and on TV commercials. And I noticed right away the impact personal branding can make on a business. That's kind of how then fast forward even further to the concept and the founding of brand face about seven years ago. So that's kind of my journey. And I'll let Michael share a little bit of his. Okay, so you started out selling vacuum cleaners. And then like through the journey of that, you just kind of, if something hits you at some point, you realize, you know, like personal brand is a real thing. Not only is it a real thing, but it is really the only thing, right? Because as we like to say, people don't do business with a logo, they do business with a person. And they don't do business with a Kelle Williams or a Coldwell banker or, you know, an exp necessarily or a remax, they do business with the individual that represents that that company. And as such, they also represent their own set of ideals and values and and points of differentiation that make you want to work with them over other people. So it was that that differentiation factor in all of it, too, was because we're all unique as human beings. Right, right. Cool, cool. So Michael, give me your little backstory. Yeah, I come from the other side of the world. The cool thing about Tony and I is we grew up about 45 minutes away from each other and had no idea had no idea either one existed. And I actually, it's a tighter knit thing than that because I played basketball in high school with the son of a guy her father played basketball in high school with, but we had no idea of all of this. And so I started off as an auctioneer in 1992. I came out of high school and said, I don't want to be anything but an auctioneer. I was going to be an automobile contract auctioneer. I still am one to this day. I love it as part of my life. And but my mentor told me get my real estate license. And he said, if you'll do that, and you can make a little extra pay check on a Saturday, you know, cell phone sales, something like that, you know, get you an extra paycheck. It's sort of the way I approached it. And then from 1994, when I got licensed as a real estate agent to 2000, I worked on the other brokers and did exactly what he said. I just picked up an extra paycheck every now and then. And I would save on commissions on rental portfolios and stuff like that. Then in 2000, open up my own brokerage, but I still didn't do anything with it. I just got my brokerage license and opened a firm. I still wanted to just keep it me. Didn't even have any agents with me at the time. In 2006, pre the mortgage debacle, I come out of a car auction and I got a call from a person on the West Coast and they said, look, we're going to have a big auction. And we're going to auction off like 300 properties in Atlanta. Will you help us broker the deal? And I said, well, yep, we'll get to talking about it. I flew out to California met with them. They were like, everything lined up good. We had a 300 property auction in Atlanta like mid 2006. It went fantastic. This and like 1000 people show up. Everything was wonderful. And I'm like, you know, the whisperings of the mortgage debacle are coming. You know, we should start doing this in every other state. We did that. And then over a course of the next seven years, I ended up with 27 brokers licenses in 27 different states. I had an office in Atlanta and office in Irvine and office in Seattle, Washington. And flying about 250,000 miles a year driving another 60 70,000 miles. And during the course of all that sold about 65,000 properties. But we knew we were working ourselves out of a job. And we needed to come back. I wanted to take a breather and open up my own shop here in town in a little bitty suburb town of Atlanta about 45, 45 miles northeast of Atlanta. And why did that I hired an agent. She had been a broker herself over many years. And she came aboard with me agreed to help me get started. And the first thing she saw was my marketing was failing miserably and like effectively had none. And what I did have was sporadic scattered and not any good. She said, you need to talk to my niece. This is what she does for a living. And at that point, I was still traveling winding things down from the from the work that we had been doing. And, and I just put it off and put it off like so many agents do and I put it off. And finally, I get a phone call from Tony. And she said, Hey, I don't know if I'm supposed to be calling you or you're supposed to be calling me. But Carolyn says you need help with marketing. And of course, I put my hands up, said, we don't need your help. We're fine. We'll figure it out herself. And she kept pecking on me a little bit. I got some ideas you need to listen to my proposal. I listened to it. I said, you know what, that makes sense. I was in San Bernardino, California. And I said, you know what, Tony, we're going to do business. Let's get started. And that started my brand face journey. And then it went so well with our brokerage and the growth and all the different things that we'll talk about on the show here, that she brought all those principles that she brought to us work so great, we did them like she said to them, we saw success. And she asked me to co-write the second book in the series. And that has led us to you. Awesome. Good story. So, so you guys have a three step process here, right? Yes, we do. Personal branding for real estate agents. So take me through this. I think this is what everybody wants to hear. Like what is the three step process? How do you where do you start? Okay, the three step process is actually pretty simple thing, you know, it's defined, develop and display. So the first thing we'll take a look at is who are your ideal customers? Because as we like to say, if you try to help everyone, you'll just help yourself write out a business. So you got to know which ideal customers that you want to work with and we take you through a whole formula that we've created to figure that out. And then we take a look at your point of differentiation. Like what is it that sets you apart from everybody else? Because we focus we strive to help people not state how they're better but state how they're different, right? So because different better is subjective, but different isn't arguable. And so you want to you want to reach out to those people that you want to do business with every day because the whole point of a brand is to present yourself in a way so that you attract exactly the kind of people you want to do business with. So we do that in the defined phase, then we get to develop phase and that's where we create everything about what this brand looks like sounds like and feels like from photos of the agent to brand colors, logos, imagery, and most of all brand messaging, that is what allows us to communicate what it is that sets you apart in a way that is very clear and concise and powerful, very compelling. Then when we get all those puzzle pieces together, we move into display and we make sure that that new brand is displayed correctly and consistently across every marketing platform. And that's really what it means in that three step process. So audience, what makes you different and display? Am I missing something? And development, the branding elements that will develop, you know, as we go all those parts and pieces that we're able to pull together in a beautifully graphic way to display. So you guys have graphic designers and you build content around people's personalities. Is that what is that what I'm hearing? I'd say that's a fair enough way to put it. Yeah, that's a real good way to put it. Yep. We take the this is the position we take everybody has something special, right? Everybody is different and unique in their own way. But you know, as humans, we all have the same emotion, right? So we all battle the same things. Life is pretty much in in many ways the same for everybody. I think we got to deal with life and how it comes in kids, spouses work, all those kind of things that come in. So but we do know that everybody's unique and individual. And if you take those points of differentiation from life experiences that are different for everybody, then everybody has a unique position. But because we're all you, you know, we're all bonded as human beings, and we're all a part of the same, the same process of being human, that same traits that make you who you are in that point of differentiation is very valuable to many, many, many of that exponential amount of other people that you now become attracted to because of your point of differentiation. Yeah. So what kind of I see I see on the cover you don't have a beard, but now you have a beard. Like, are you now going to brand the beard? Or like, where are you going with this man? Well, we just it's funny, we just had the conversation on one of our webinars about that. We were talking about, you know, how long does a branding element last? And I'm like, Well, look, you know, this is sort of a bussman's holiday. But we do have a photo shoot for the new look that is scheduled to come up in October, November. So if that's going to change, we're going to stick with the beard. You're going to start with a new brand here in a little while. Everything is saying, that's what you're saying. But now I'm going to be recognizable instead of that young kid. All right. All right. It's checking on you. So how many agents do you guys serve in your, in your, like in your company, the brand face, like how many agents are you guys helping develop your personal their personal brand as we speak? As we speak, there's probably about 15 to 20 at any given time, Ricky. So we try not to take on too many in any given time. And we have clients throughout about 36 states in the US and three other countries. So we've been doing this for several years now, exclusively in the real estate industry. And we usually only work with about 15 to 20 at a time. Okay. Okay. So you only work with about 15 or 20 at a time. The workshop area that we have, we have a couple of different products available. And there's a course that people can take. But then there's a workshop where we're super actively involved in day to day. And that's where we kind of live, we have to limit it there. Okay, so if you guys, we're going to go deeper with what they do here. But if y'all are interested in working with these guys to build your personal brand, there's a link in the description here, I think it's brand face real estate.com backslash Ricky. And you guys can go there and start the connection and start working towards building your personal brand with brand face if that's something you want to do. But like, give me some give me a success story, like tell me tell me an agent that you took and built their brand and now they're, you know, just crushing went to the moon. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, there's there's a few one that probably stands out to me right now that is just an awesome brand. And she's just embraced it so very much is we've got an agent in the Fort Lauderdale area named Teresa Stark. And she came into it. She was living the waterfront lifestyle. But she was having difficulty really breaking into that mindset of the people who are buying those luxury waterfront properties. There were so many agents after that, after that type of customers you can imagine. So what we did with her is look at, okay, Teresa, who are you when you're not selling real estate? You know, who are like, who is Teresa? And how can we bring that out to get people to identify and connect with you beyond just being a real estate agent? And she was actually living that waterfront lifestyle that she was trying to sell to everybody else, but she wasn't really making that connection. She and her husband are competitive anglers. They have, they boat all the time through the intracosal waterways. They know all those properties in that area. And so, and they participate in a lot of the fishing tournaments. And so we really brought that out in her story. It's all about the story and getting people to connect to you. And I would say, and she's doing fantastic today. She said she's already hit every goal she had for this year. And that was back in June when I talked to her last. But within weeks of pulling her brand together, she already had about $6 million in referrals in this in just the first few weeks. And that was as she says it, that was because people started seeing her differently in a different light. That's part of it. But Ricky, the other part that I think you're going to appreciate when it comes to this too, because I know we know what you do, is that not only does a great brand change how other people see you, it changes the way you see yourself. And that change for her. And no matter how much confidence somebody comes into this program with, they leave with so much more. She's a good example of that, too, because she'll tell you right quick. And even her husband, Randy, I'll tell you, they're fantastic people. But he's like, I don't know what y'all told her. But she's a different person now. And where she was timid before about what she does, there is no intimidation now. So yeah, well, I mean, when you get your personal brand out there and everything starts clicking and people start to recognize you as that waterfront agent or or however you differentiate yourself, then yeah, I'm sure you just start kind of living it. Yeah, you do. Like we've got another client in Pennsylvania and she and her brand, she's a part of a big brokerage. So they've got a billboard that they'll just throw up. It's a national brokerage. So they've got a billboard. They'll throw up opportunities for like RELOS. And she said that it came up and she was going to pass it because she said, you know, I know that's a little bit out of my area. And I know the guy that's over there that works that part of town. And she said, I was just going to let it go. And she said, then it dawned on she's wait a minute. She said, this is my brand. You know, this is the perfect person for what I do. I've attracted this. And so she clicked on it. She went after it. But she was, you know, she'd been meddling with real estate for a couple of years and had really got serious about it. She got a personal brand and started living it. And yeah, for sure, for sure. So let's talk about like social media platforms like so you guys have content creators that work under you that create this content. Are you guys content creators? What's going on there? OK, we are content creators from the standpoint of telling that real estate agent story. So it's probably helpful to know what we are and what we're not. OK, we're not like typical real estate trainers or coaches, right? We don't really help people to say, OK, come into this program, do these things and you're going to get, you know, do these all these things each day. And this is how many clients you're going to get. We set the story that separates them from the pack from the very beginning. And what that does is it puts their their message and their image out there everywhere. So everything they do moving forward, where they market whatever they do is impacted and pushed and driven by that story. And so the ROI becomes so much more impactful. So in terms of content, we don't do necessarily social media management. We're considering that at the point at this point, but we don't do that right now. What we what we do is come up with their brand messaging, their story to set them apart. And we do have content writers that do that for us. But there are social media management companies out there. There are people that do advertisements, the anything beyond beyond branding that moves into the advertising phase. We let other people do that. We are branding agents. So we stay pure to what we do best. So you literally do not create pictures or videos or blog posts or you don't create any content. You basically just come up with the concept of what separates this agent from any other agent. That is correct with the exception of the of what we call the messaging content that actually helps them express what makes them different. So, for instance, like an elevator pitch, something we call signature sound bites, which are bullet points, their highlights of the of their brand at a glance, their entire biography and then frequently asked questions is something we help them as well with as well. But it's all centered on who are they and what can they do for their customer. And, you know, I'd like to say this aligns so well with what you do because we love how, you know, how you focus on don't don't talk about what's in it for you, the real estate agent, talk about what's in it for your customer. And we always like to say, we come at it from the angle of it's not look at me, look at me. It's look what I can do for you, my customer, because that's what it should be about. Yeah, no, I totally, totally. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the process here. So an agent comes to you, you help them identify how they're different. And then you basically just let them figure out how to get that message to the customers. OK, good, good point. Thank you for asking that question. So when they come out of our program, what they will have is they'll have an entire brand asset library is what we call it. They'll have photos of themselves from a recent photo shoot that we help them go through. We have a stylist on staff. They help them prepare, choose their wardrobe hair and makeup tips, all that going into a photo shoot. We have a brand display specialist who will take their photos, the the collection of images we've chosen to represent their brand, their logos, their colors, everything. Our brand display specialist is going to make sure that their social media channels and their website are all customized with that new brand. And then we'll have we have designers on staff who design business card, personalized note card, things like that. So what we call when they come through our workshop, their their new brand will be displayed on all of their everyday marketing platform. So things that you use every day, your website, your social channels, your collateral materials, when it comes to where they advertise, if they're going to do Facebook ads, if they're going to do postcards or newspaper ads or whatever that may be, they can then take all of those brand assets that we've already aligned for them and put into their library and they say, OK, it's time to do a postcard. It's going to be as simple as this Ricky. They sit down and they say, OK, I want this picture of me on this side. I want this elevator pitch here. The logo goes here on the backside here. My soundbites. I want those there. Here's my call to action. And so all of that sitting in their brand assets folder, they just put it in there, give it to a designer, whatever they need to give the designer access to. But everything that will communicate what sets them apart and put their message and image out there, we create here and then they disseminate it wherever they want to. OK, yeah. So you help them get a photo shoot. You come up with tag lines and and what differentiates their self and what kind of help them articulate a better message and you help them with their colors and their design and their business cards. Right. And and stuff of that nature. A logo is a logo. Social media cover photos and profile pics to make sure that all across the board, we've got a consistent look and feel. OK, and then do you a lot of people with brand? I mean, nowadays it's, you know, it's on Facebook, it's Instagram, it's, you know, all the different, you know, platforms. Do you guys help them in terms of like I mean, OK, I've realized obviously you don't create content from them to post daily or or, you know, you know, do it yourself. But do you help them with what they things that they should be posting and kind of help to consult them in that manner and is your program like a one time deal? Like you pay they pay a one time fee. They go through this program and at the end they have their branding asset liability and then that's it. That's a wrap. They kind of just take that and now they kind of know they have a direction to go in and now they say bye bye brand face and then they go in this direction. Is that kind of the am I catching that correctly? Couple of different options. You want to go ahead? No, go ahead. I'll let you. OK, there's a couple of different options. So one option is exactly as you described. They can come in. We can create something that's unique to them. They can move on and do their own thing, right? Most of the people that come into our workshop will come in what we call our personal power brand workshop. And what we what we've done is we have creative brands all over the world and we've carefully watched these last few years. Which brands rise to the top and agents get excited about creative with which give our agents a fast start out of the gate. And so we have trademarked a certain number like a lot of what we call brand identifiers or taglines like Lifestyle Locator is one that's that we use a lot. Home Navigator like Teresa's that's a trademarked brand that we have. And so we do give agents the ability to license one of those exclusively in their market. And when they come into our program they fill out a questionnaire and we put it through a system or an algorithm that will tell us which of our personal power brands they match up best with and at what percentage. And then Michael and I take a human eye to that work with them to figure out OK is one of these right for you. If it's not we can create something super unique to them. If they do one of the license ones that we have then they're protected in their market with that brand identifier and we have all of this collective intel from all over the place with other people throughout the world using that brand identifier. So there's different options. So there is an option to stay in the brand based family. Honestly everybody that has ever come into brand face. We have we're still in touch with 99 percent of those people today. Right. We always like to say it's like Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave. Right. Yeah. We find that we've got clients that started with us six years ago still they still show up on our webinars. They're very active with us were constantly and they're still using the brand with great success. So it is it is something that the program itself is very it is content rich. I want that I want to be clear about that. Like we teach a whole lot of ancillary thought processes about how to use your brand. So it's not like it's not like you know here's your box of cracker jacks dig for the prize. You know and then we're done. It's there is definitely a a development of thought process that goes along with being a brand face. And I was the original real estate brand face. So I'm speaking from experience here. I was a client before I was asked to write the book and then long before I became a partner in the company and long before we grew to four provinces of the Canada and the UK New Zealand and 36 states in the United States. They we I started off down this process. And it's and it's it's simple to say hey you know we got a logo. We got a picture. You know we could have done that back at glamour shots. You remember the glamour shot days when everybody real estate had their glamour shots and stuff. We're not talking about that. We're talking about something super content deep. But so there's a development in a thought process. Right. Because what we find I'm a broker so I'm constantly recruiting people and you run into this all the time Rick I'm finding people all the time that won't take the next step. Like I can't tell you the times that people sit in my office and they're like well I just need training. I'd be ready to be a real estate agent. I'm like you've passed your test. You've gone through the work. You've got a broker that will support you to spend money on you. Now the thing that you've got to do is take that next step. So we have a lot of that thought process inside all of our programs whether you come in to one of the smaller programs or whether you take the whole workshop. We work with that because it's all 90 percent of us up here and you've got to get that out there so everybody else is attracted to you, the individual. Are you guys exclusively for real estate agents or do you guys build brand for other industries? We do build for other industries. Yeah. Yeah, we do. We don't get hands on right now. Mostly they go through a course that we that we have but we do like we absolutely do work with other industries. But we're only hands on with real estate agents right now. Right. Exclusively worked with them. We purposefully went down that road because we had a very clear track record of what works when you start to do that whole process. And frankly, real estate needs this. It is an industry that very naturally goes to a brand face driven type of concept. Naturally, our pictures are on business cards and they're on the yard signs a lot of times in the billboard. So we all see that. But what what we're coming in is to do is help refine that and get people to understand that branding does not mean just being known for your profession. It means being known for being different in your profession. And so that's what we want to get across just because you're known as a real estate agent. So we're 5,000 other people. Right. We don't want you just being known for real estate. We want you to be known as the real estate agent who and then fill in that blank for what you want to be known for. Right. Right. So tell me about real estate personal brand versus company brand because I feel I mean I'm with Remax. I feel like they're the strongest brand out there. They have the they have the highest income per agent. I mean, hands down, there's not a close second place when it comes to that. Sure, there's been a company, you know, surpasses the number of agents. But I mean, if you got a bunch of agents and you know, we're still crushing them on the income per agent. I think that's what matters. And I think because the income per agent, the way that they have it set up, it breeds a it breeds a top producer because you got to pay to play. I mean, it's a it's an expensive you know, you pay for what you get. It's an expensive thing to be a Remax agent. But you're standing on one of the the best brand out there which can go a long way with clients. I mean, it can go a long way with clients. And I think that yeah, I could go crush it anywhere. You know, I could be with I was with a really small company for a second when the market crashed and I came back and I was making you know, I was making really good. But however, when I took what I was doing at the small company and I combined that with a big brand, then I really went to another level. So I was building my building my my personal brand, you know, but then when I combined it with this other incredibly awesome brand, that's when that's when I really went to the moon. So tell me about tell me your thoughts there. I mean, I really want to know what you think about personal brand versus company brand and how you can use the two to really take your business to another level. OK, I'll tackle that first. I know Michael has thoughts from that from from actually being in it himself. I just look at it from the marketing angle of things. And and I think, you know, remax is a highly reputable brand and very well known for that balloon, right? I mean, that is just a branding image part of the branding imagery that you can recognize anywhere in the world, right, which is super smart. We love that. And it is a very well known, as I said, very reputable brand. What we focus on is is if you really think about it, people don't necessarily do business with remax or somebody else in general in general. They do business with an individual at remax or at wherever they're from, right? So that's the first thing. Now, given, you know, what you said, do they take a look at it when they don't really know an individual and they're just looking at the market in general and saying, OK, it's remax is these couple of boutiques. It's this big, you know, giant conglomeration here. I mean, what do I choose? And they may gravitate toward remax because remax has a great brand. And that is the beginning point at both of those together is a powerful combination is what I'm trying to say. I think I'm trying to agree with you here. But I will like I would like to say this. I would like to say this because a lot of people ask us or they tell they tell us, look, I just lost to sell to and just fill in the blank. Keller Williams, Coldwell, whatever it is, I just lost to sell to them. And I said, no, you didn't, no, you didn't. And I'll tell you why you didn't because you can't lose a sell to a logo. You can't it is. It is a great brand. No doubt about it. But what that really means is if you had FaceTime with this person and you lost to and you lost to a company and not another individual, you didn't build your own value up enough. And I think. Yeah, I think that I think that maybe you could probably say there's a really small percentage, maybe one percent, two percent, three percent of people that I mean, I have had people that, you know, they're like, we chose you because remax. But then there was a sense of we like you too, you know. But when I think when when prospects or clients or customers say, you know, you know, we're going to go with this other company. Really, they're saying we don't like you very much. Or you didn't build enough value at the worst set. Exactly. Exactly. They just they just didn't like that's a nice way of saying we just like this other person better in my in my opinion, it's just an excuse that they just like the other agent better. The other agent acted like they cared more or seemed like a more of a go-getter or provided them with more information or whatever the case may be. It was something that clicked that they just liked the other person better. I wouldn't say most of the time, you know, 90 99% of the time it's it's it's just an excuse. And they're just they're basically telling you that, you know, and it's not to I'm not saying that so that agents listen and say, oh, well, people don't like me. No, it's fine if people don't like you. You know, the thing is, is 70% of people you deal with are either not going to like you and not tell you to your face, but they're either not going to like you or they have another agent they want to work with what you need to focus on. You're focused on those people and what we need to focus on is building our brand with the 20 to 30% of people who love us and who want to do business with us. But the problem is, is that we have to go through those 70 percenters to get to the 20 to 30 percenters. And that's what everybody hates. They hate the rejection. They hate people not liking them. And it all comes back to them worried about what other people think. And I think that's one reason why a lot of agents don't take take a step out and really tackle this personal brand, you know, path because over the past five years, personal branding and branding has become so big and it's going to get even worse over the next five years. And agents are scared right now. They're sitting back and they don't want to put their self out there because they're scared of what people think. You know, they don't want to they don't want to put theirself out there. They're scared of what they look like. They're scared of what they sound like. They're scared of what, you know, putting their image out there. They're scared of people won't like them and stuff like that. So what do you tell people that are just kind of scared to take that next step, put their self out there, put their put their own personal personality on display, what differentiates them from all the other agents? What do you tell people they're scared? I got the answer to that. I tell people that prosperity favors the bold. So be bold, especially with your personal brand, like that is like what I was talking about when we recruit. You know, and I want to actually go back if I could, Ricky, and talk about from a brokerage standpoint, what I think about a big brokerage, small brokerage name, big name. I am 100 percent. Some brokers do not agree with this. I'm 100 percent on board with any of my agents putting themselves out there personally. I'm 100 percent behind it. The brokerage wins every time, every time. And we're in Atlanta, we're one of the small one of the small boutique brokerages. We don't go after the whole market. I don't want the whole market. I want to work with people that I know are going to do the job and represent my face as the brand of the overall umbrella brand of the company in the way that I would do that. And then after that, I want them to put their face, their likeness, their phone numbers, their tagline, their their acumen to let them know to support them. Because in our small farming areas, you know, when we think about real estate, we're going to go in real estate, we're going to take over Atlanta. That's impossible. Let me tell you, it's impossible from Metro brokers, the largest brokerage in the state of Georgia. It's impossible for Emacs, it's impossible for Keller Williams, and it's impossible for Michael Carn associate. So you've got the biggest all the way to the smallest. I tell agents when they want to get started with me, farm a small area until everybody knows exactly who you are and what you stand for and then expand that area. Because that's how you build your brand and that's how you put yourself foot forward in it. And as far as the fear, you just got to get over it. We are a forward faced forward business and people want to know your story. They want to know what made you who you became and believe it or not, there are millions of people that are going to identify with period for all types of personalities. And that ideal customer is looking for you. And like you say all the time, and I love it, why are we messing with the people we're trying to convince to do something that is beyond their thought probably convince a man against his will and he's of the same thought still it's impossible. And so look for those people and be attracted to those people that want to do business with you. Yeah, I love it. I I've got my own thoughts on the fear thing. I'm going to save that for you guys as podcasts. What is you guys as podcast, by the way? It's Fearless Friday. And we we usually premiere those on Facebook on Friday. And then we premiere in the following Tuesday on on YouTube as well. But yours is and we haven't got you scheduled yet. We're gonna get you scheduled ASAP. So is that on iTunes and all that? It's not yet, but we're working on that right now. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, we've been doing it for about a year. And we thought this will be fun for a little while. And then we realized, oh my gosh, this is actually fun. Not only fun, but this is pretty powerful. Pretty good. Where is it now? Where is this working people watch this? Yeah, it will be listen to it. It's Facebook live. And we usually do those premieres at 10am on Fridays. Okay, okay, cool. Cool. Um, okay, Chuck Higgins here. He's wondering, should he make his Instagram page personal or business? Ah, okay. So, um, so you we have some people that try to toe that line. We feel like he probably should make it business. Like if he doesn't want to manage two of them, if he decides, you know, how am I going to spend most of my time on Instagram? Is it mostly going to be real estate oriented? Is it mostly going to be personal? If it's mostly personal, then you're going to have to have to. But, but if it, but I would suggest he definitely start a business page on Instagram because it there are things that you really should share from a business standpoint that really don't belong on your personal page. People follow you for certain reasons. They follow you because they believe in your like that you're fun. You're entertaining. You're, you know, you're inspirational on a personal level on a professional level. I don't know that they always want to see the listings and, you know, and all of that stuff in between the personal stuff. So you need to get let people make a decision on their own on their own behalf. Do I want to follow you personally? Do I want to follow you professionally? Even though on the professional side, we teach people to weave in the personal things about themselves. It's just not going to be everything personal that they put on their personal pages. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it can be a blend of both. Like, like if you, if he decides to go, I'm going to make Instagram totally personal. I'm also going to make another one of business Instagram that you can always cross. So you can lead people from your personal to your listings. So they see your business and let them go do what they want to do, you know, because one of the things we teach in brand face that's super important is it is who you are. Like we tell our clients all the time, we're not trying to give you something that's a mask you're going to put on in the morning and then you're going to take it off at five p.m. It's not like that. This is so important that the personal of personal branding be who you are. And at the same time, we don't want to beat everybody up if they follow us because they are kids play on the same sports teams or something like that. And that's what they're more interested in. You don't want to bombard them with your business, business, business. They know what you do. You know, you're probably already sponsoring the team or something like that. So you have to sort of make that determination, but you can still blend the both because personal is what makes for sure. And Chuck, you're saying that you got to pay for exposure if you're a business account on Instagram. That's not true. And the way I see it, I mean, I have a my my Instagram is business and I get plenty of organic traffic on my Instagram. So yeah, I pay for some exposure as well. But it's mostly organic. So just hit me up, Chuck, if you have any further questions about that. So take me through this. If they click on the link in the description, brandfacerealestate.com backslash Ricky, they go to a page and what happens? What is there? OK, it'll be a short little video where I tell them the importance of personal branding and they have and encourage them to register to receive the full training video. So they get a full training video on what we call the six C's, six six core elements to become the face of your business and a star in your market. So that takes them all through those six C's and even addresses at the end of that video. Some of the reasons they might be holding back from that a personal branding approach. And then from there, if they decide they want to join the course, they can they can jump in and take our course. It is step by step. Every secret we put into play for every agent we've ever worked for is in the course and they can go in and that is more like a self guided course. But if at any point in that self guided course they would like to upgrade and have us get our hands dirty and jump in there and do it for them. They just click the upgrade button and we're right there. So so either option, you know, that's the best way to enter through that door is just kind of take a look around. If you like what you see and you want to go a little bit further, we're a snap away. Great, great. OK, so I like what you guys are doing. I mean, it's different, right? I haven't seen a company out there doing quite what you guys do. A lot of the companies out there doing what you do actually are media companies creating, you know, they they're actually creating, you know, managing social medias and, you know, handling all kinds of different things. So you guys are more focused on the front end. OK, what's the story? What makes you different? Who are you after? Let's get some professional pictures. Let's make sure your business cards and websites and everything are are lined up according to your brand and your color and the fonts and the pictures and all that good stuff. So you just kind of get them set up, if you will. And then from there, it's like they're part of a brand face alumni, you know, they they get in there and, you know, you guys are there and and, you know, if they need you, they got you kind of thing is, you know, six state or network. Yeah, we have we have agents between us all the time, you know, so it's sharing information between each other. So it's a good group. It's a good group. I've said it's more like there's a little community added community atmosphere added to network with other agents that have also been through the program and to swap referrals and so on and so forth. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, we we're we're we try to live authentic ourselves, you know what I mean? Like I just want to see the success of everybody around me. I love being around successful people and people having a good time. I one of my tag lines is every day Saturday and people are like, I want to live in that world. And I'm like, well, you just have to surround yourself with right people, because that's a big part of it. And, you know, but like you said earlier in the program, like brings like and so with a group is good. No doubt than your community and a fantastic people in the industry. So Monday, Monday is Saturday. Every day is Saturday. Who's day is Saturday? That's that. I tell people all the time that they might today might be grass cutting Saturday and next to tomorrow might be golf playing Saturday. So, you know, but it's still Saturday. My favorite moment of the week is Sunday evening, Sunday night. I feel like I'm getting I'm going to bed, I'm getting ready for war. There you go. I was so excited. Sunday night. I'm just so ready. I love that. I love that. Hey, and I want to address one thing real quick, quick, Ricky, because you've asked it a couple of different ways or alluded to it a couple of different ways. What might be holding people back and you said people are afraid of what others might think about them. There's really two main reasons that people are afraid of a personal branding approach. Number one is the fear of focus. It is the number one mistake in business is a fear of focus. You've got to be able to focus in on what sets you apart and who you want to work with. What do you want your life to look like? Right. And so a lot of times people come into it and they think, well, I don't want it. You know, I don't want to be boxed in to just work with first time home buyers. Well, newsflash, we don't do that. So so that we start there. The other thing is they are afraid that people will see them as arrogant or egotistical if their face all of a sudden appears on billboards and and all over their website and everything else, right? And the way we look at it is it's done in a very authentic way. It's not about look at me. It's about look at what I can do for you. And we take that approach with everybody and even the people who have been the most frightened will will come out of this with such confidence and pride, the pride. It just it almost brings me to tears thinking about this because when we unveil people's brand messaging for them, Ricky, I can tell you that about 95 percent of the people over the last six years that we've been doing this have literally shed tears on that brand messaging reveal. And that is because for the first time somebody has been able to pull their story together in a way that makes them proud and and is authentic to them. And they all of a sudden look at us and say, oh, my, who is that person? You know, they say, I want to be friends with that person. Who is that? And and they don't. And it's just stunning to them that that is who they are. They've just never really seen it from the outside. I think what's cool about what you guys do is that some some people need a third party to step in and look at who they are from a different angle to, you know, to build this message or this this branding, this this asset library you're talking about. Some sometimes you need it's kind of it's kind of like for self-owners. You know, they think they can do it with their self. Same exact thing. You know, I mean, you wouldn't have, you know, you know, you want the best that you're not going to go to the dentist to work on your foot. You know, you're not going to roof your own house or plumb your own house or build your own house. You know, you need professionals to do that. And that's what you guys are. You guys are professional brand builders like you. You look at people from an objective point of view and you say, OK, this is what's going to make you stand out. Right. Have you ever thought about this? And they're like, hell, no, never thought about that. That's genius. I think that's probably what you get a lot is, wow, that is that that is genius. Am I right? We actually we actually have heard that. And we're, you know, and that's what I told Tanya the first time I started working with her. I'm like, oh, that's genius. I got it. Pat me on the back and say, just listen to me. Everything will be all right. Yeah. But you know what makes it all genius is what really makes the whole concept genius is you're just taking that the what's what's making these people real like everybody, we always like to say, we don't make stars. We unveil them because everybody has that star inside. They don't always know how to get to it and they don't know how to make it shine once they do get to it. And so and that's really what we do. And we're so blessed every day to work with the people that we work with because they really are stars. They're incredible. And we just had another brand messaging reveal on a webinar that we do as part of the workshop today. And it was just it was it was just such a great moment. And we get to live those great moments every day. Yeah, trust me, I know all about those moments. Um, so OK, guys, check this out. I'm sitting here with two professional brand building people, whatever you want to call them, whatever they call themselves. They build your brand. They help you with your message. They give you a different angle to look at what you do, what separates you from everyone else. And they package it in a way that you can take it and start advertising around this new you. They create a new you, basically, and they they make you shine and stand out in your markets. And I just I think it's really cool. So I really appreciate you guys coming on today and sharing this. I hope a lot of agents hook up with you. And and I can't wait to see any results that comes out of that. And yeah, I just appreciate you guys's time. Well, thank you. Thank you for having us on. We are honored to be on this show with you. And we appreciate what you do for the industry, Ricky. Absolutely. So just before we go here, let me know where everybody can find you or where where you want everyone to go so on and so forth. Yeah. Yeah. Well, first and foremost, you know, you'll learn a lot about the program and exactly what we do in it. If you just go to brandfacerealestate.com slash Ricky. That's that's where we start. And and once, you know, just dig into that and then you can reach us through any of the other avenues through there. You can hit us up on our Facebook page. We've got a group that we're hoping to really grow big brand build your real estate brand is what it's called a Facebook group. So you can jump in there too. But that first link brandfacerealestate.com slash Ricky. That's the one where you'll learn a lot today. I like that. Build your real estate brand. It's a Facebook group. Yep, it is Facebook. And we literally just started it like two weeks ago. So absolutely. Yeah, we chose the first few years. It's like, OK, we've got to be focused in what we're doing. We've got to build the concept, the proof, get the tribe all together, this big community, this big family. And then we launch it. And literally, guys, we've just been launching our own brand probably the last few months and really getting it out there and growing social media platforms. So hey, we can use the followers come on over. Awesome. Awesome. Well, again, guys, I really appreciate it. Everybody, thanks for tuning in till next time. I'll talk to you guys soon. Let me know if there's anything in the world I can do for you. And I will talk to you soon. Let's go.