 Committee will come to order. Before we begin, I have one housekeeping matter. As soon as we adjourn the public hearing, we will immediately move upstairs for a classified briefing and we'll also be asking questions in reverse order seniority today. Today we begin our fiscal 2025 posture hearings for Northcom and Southcom. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today and for their service to our nation. In eight months, President Xi is expected to visit Peru, inaugurate a brand new 3.6 billion dollar megaport. It was financed by China, built by Chinese workers and it will be owned and operated by the CCP back company. It will be used to ship South American lithium and other critical materials to China to further their military modernization. This is just the latest effort of China's efforts to displace American influence and build a strategic footprint in our backyard. 25 of the 31 countries in the Southcom AOR are welcomed or have welcomed infrastructure investment from China. 22 have formally joined China's Belt and Road initiative. China is investing in critical sectors across Latin America including sea, space, telecommunication, critical minerals and energy. CCP back companies currently own or operate mines in Mexico, Argentina, Peru and Venezuela, electrical grids in Peru and Chile, 5G wireless systems in Costa Rica and Bolivia, Brazil and Mexico, space launch and satellite tracking facilities in Peru, Venezuela, Bolivia, Argentina, as well as 40 ports across 16 Latin American and Caribbean countries. That includes ports on both ends of the Panama Canal, one at the tip of South America and one just 100 miles away in the Bahamas. None of the agreements governing these port, space and telecommunication projects banned the collection of intelligence by China and none of them banned the PLA from using them for military operations. In fact, many of these countries already share intelligence, host port calls, buy military equipment and receive training from the PLA. Unfortunately, China is not the only malign influence in the Western Hemisphere. Since Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine, Russian propaganda efforts have increased across Latin America. Russia continues to invest heavily in Cuba's communist regime and military and its military continues to provide training and arms to Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, where Russia has over 200 troops operating a satellite tracking station. Recent unrest and Southcom AOR is also very troubling. Over the weekend, U.S. forces were sent to Haiti to help evacuate nonessential embassy personnel. Meanwhile, Venezuela continues to threaten its neighbors by moving thousands of troops to its borders. We need to do more to encourage stability in this region. This means we must build and enhance partnerships to further our security interest in the region. We also need to focus on real-threat transnational criminal organizations based in the region and what they pose to our nation. These brutal criminals prey on thousands of vulnerable men, women and children. They steal their money and endanger their lives with perilous attempts to gain illegal entry at our borders. Last year, CBP encountered nearly two and a half million migrants trying to illegally cross into our southwest border that set a new record. And to make matters worse, that number includes at least 169 individuals on the terrorist watch list. 598 known gang members and 178 of which were MS-13 gang members. Keep in mind, these are just the ones that the CBP caught. CBP estimates that another 1.7 million illegal immigrants got away. South and Central American criminal organizations are also the main source of fentanyl and other dangerous drugs smuggled across our southern border. In FY23, a record 27,000 pounds of fentanyl were seized at the southwest border, enough to kill 6 billion people. And that's what was seized, not what got in. Nearly 3,000 military personnel are deployed to the U.S. border, the largest U.S. deployment of forces in the Western Hemisphere. Northcom and Southcom are doing their best to try to provide support to civilian authorities to address the border crisis, but the real solution rests with our President. He needs to drop the excuses and secure our border. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and getting their best military advice on how to overcome these security challenges that we face. And with that, I yield to my friend, the ranking member, Mr. Panetta, for any questions or comments he may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this opportunity to sit in for ranking member Adam Smith, but I'd also like to welcome our witnesses for our hearing today, Ms. Rebecca Zimmerman, performing the duties of Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense and Hemispheric Affairs. General Laura Richardson, welcome back as, again, the commander of U.S. Southern Command. And General Gregory Guillo, commander of U.S. Northern Command and Northern North American Aerospace Defense Command, in his first appearance before the committee after taking command in February. It's appropriate for our first posture hearing to be focused on the defense of the United States. What happens here at home and in our neighborhood is of the utmost importance to securing our national interest. I appreciate Ms. Zimmerman's focus on the new Homeland Defense Policy guidance in her testimony and look forward to additional detail about what the department intends to improve in its resilience across DOD, the interagency and our civil society to ensure that we can deter and, if necessary, survive and prevail against any adversary who chooses to test our defenses. I also look forward to hearing about the progress of General Guillo's initial review upon taking command, as well as his and Ms. Zimmerman's views on the department's support to civilian authorities at the southern border, unidentified anomalous phenomena, and DOD and national interest in the high north and north calm. Further, I hope to understand NORAD's posture and future requirements with respect to integrated air and missile defense particularly in regard to increasing our domain awareness regardless of the type of threat or origin. I expect to encourage General Guillo and Ms. Zimmerman to speak to the threats to our national security in strategic cyber and traditional domains and across the full geographic breath of our country. Strategic competitors are active in the south calm region and often engage in activities that undermine the rules-based order. Despite other global events that require our attention, we should not ignore our own hemisphere. The department needs to engage in agile and adaptive ways in the region where resources can be limited. In south calm, the department continues to pursue security cooperation activities that enhance our partner's ability to address challenges in the region, like drug trafficking, migrant flows, and the fallout of the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela. Such activities can effectively build the capacity of our partners while also deterring malign activity and aggression in the region. I am interested in hearing how such activities build capacity and to the extent to which they reinforce human rights. And yes, we are keeping an eye on the situation in Haiti. The department is currently supporting the Multinational Stability Support Mission and augmenting security at the U.S. Embassy, and I encourage General Richardson to speak about these missions. Finally, I will repeat my concluding question to our witnesses from last year. How do we continue to protect the United States, continue to build our partnerships with the countries of the Western Hemisphere, and continue to keep an eye on efforts that may undermine the United States' interest? I thank the witnesses for being here, and I look forward to hearing their testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Now I'd like to introduce the witnesses. We have the Honorable Rebecca Zimmerman, is Acting Principal Deputy Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense and Hemispheric Affairs. It's a pretty long title. General Laura Richardson, Commander, U.S., United States Southern Command. General Gregory Gillo, how do you pronounce that? Chairman, it's Gio. Gio. Thank you. All right. General Gregory Gio is the Commander in the United States Northern Command and Northern Aerospace Defense Command. I welcome the witnesses. Ms. Zimmerman, we'll start with you. You're recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and Congressman Panetta standing in, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. I'll highlight how we're putting Homeland Defense and other interests across the hemisphere front and center to implement the 2022 National Defense Strategy. But I want to first acknowledge the tragic helicopter crash on the Southwest border on Friday afternoon that killed two New York National Guardsmen, Casey Frankosky and John Gracia, and also a U.S. Border Patrol agent, Chris Luna. On behalf of the Department of Defense, I extend our sincere condolences to the families of those lost. The 2022 NDS states that the department's top priority is defense of the homeland, paced to the growing multi-domain threat posed by the People's Republic of China. Per the NDS, the PRC is the pacing challenge for DOD, while Russia remains an acute threat. The PRC and Russia currently pose more dangerous challenges to safety and security to the U.S. homeland. But the NDS also ensures vigilance of other persistent threats. North Korea is expanding its nuclear and missile capability to threaten the homeland, Iran is testing space launch technologies, and global terrorist groups require continued monitoring. Emerging technologies pose new challenges to strategic stability and demand that we adapt and adjust our posture, deterring adversaries from employing advanced threats by denying them the benefits of their aggression. As small, uncrewed aircraft systems proliferate in the open market, and their costs decrease as their capabilities rapidly increase, the threat of these small UAS is becoming more prominent. Our nation also continues to face the challenge of natural and man-made hazards. Last year, the U.S. homeland endured 114 incidents, 24 more than in 2022, caused by natural hazards including severe storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, and wildfires. In December of 2023, Secretary Austin approved a classified homeland defense policy guidance, updating the department's approach to homeland defense to account for major changes in the global security environment. We have shared this classified document with the Congress and plan to publish an unclassified version later this year. The guidance looks to meet the challenges we face today by driving action across the department to deter threats of aggression or strategic attack to the homeland across multiple domains and the spectrum of conflict. It identifies initiatives that contribute to DOD's ability to project power, defend the homeland, and in the event of a conflict maintain continuity of wartime operations. Those initiatives linked to the 2022 NDS and ensure that DOD will deter aggression against the homeland, improve resilience to an attack across the spectrum of conflict, focus on defending defense critical infrastructure against attacks, ensure continuity of operations and continuity of government, build resiliency against the impacts of climate change, and ensure resilience in chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear response capabilities associated with homeland defense missions. Defense support of civil authorities, or DISCA, is an important activity supporting the American public and our partners, responding to disasters, public health emergencies, and securing our borders. Per the NDS, DOD is prepared to support DISCA activities that do not impair warfighting readiness. Today, between 2,500 and 3,000 military personnel are deployed to the Southwest border, supporting U.S. Customs and Border Protection activities. DOD has supported DHS's border security mission for 18 of the last 21 years. The United States derives immense benefit from a stable, peaceful, and democratic Western hemisphere that reduces security threats to our nation. We're deepening partnerships with Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, and Chile, while reinforcing democratic institutions, civilian control of the military, and respect for human rights and the rule of law. In February, Secretary Austin participated in the North American Defense Ministerial, with his counterparts from Mexico and Canada. DOD is working to fulfill and sustain the department's supporting role in Central America and the Caribbean, institutional capacity building, and humanitarian assistance and disaster response. In addition, the department is participating in U.S. government efforts to support a UN-backed multinational security support mission in Haiti to assist the Haitian national police. Our relationships in the hemisphere help ensure we can conduct humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, bolster cyber defenses, promote climate resilience, and conduct pandemic response. To conclude, the department is committed to defending the homeland and pursuing U.S. interests in the Western Hemisphere and the Arctic. Thank you for your support of the Department of Defense, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you, Ms. Zimmerman. General Richardson, you're recognized. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Panetta, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you with Assistant Secretary Zimmerman and General Guillaume. I am honored to represent the dedicated men and women of U.S. Southern Command to discuss the challenges we share with our neighbors in Latin America and the Caribbean. Our national security strategy recognizes the direct link between this region's security and our own security. We are harnessing the power of partnership from Team USA in support of Team Democracy by leveraging all instruments of national power, diplomacy, information, military, and economics to expeditiously assist partner nations in addressing the challenges that impact our collective security. This region, which is our shared neighborhood, remains under assault from a host of cross-cutting, transboundary challenges that directly threaten our homeland. I have seen these challenges intensify since I met with you last year, and this remains a call to action. In almost two and a half years in command, I've made it my priority to meet our partners where they are and to listen and understand the challenges that affect us all. The world is at an inflection point. Our partners in the Western Hemisphere, with whom we are bonded by trade, shared values, democratic traditions, family ties, and increasingly impacted by interference and coercion, I've learned that our presence absolutely matters. The People's Republic of China has exploited the trust of democracies in this hemisphere using that trust to steal national secrets, intellectual property, and research related to academia, agriculture, and healthcare. The scope and scale of this espionage is unprecedented. Through the Belt and Road Initiative, the PRC aims to amass power and influence at the expense of the world's democracies. Here in the Western Hemisphere, Latin America and the Caribbean have the potential to feed and fuel the world. Understanding this, the PRC is already busy extracting and exploiting. Predatory investment practices, construction of mega ports and dual use space facilities, and criminal cyber activities are just a few of the PRC's malign activities that jeopardize the sovereignty and safety of the region. Russia remains an acute threat and seeks to increase its foothold by bolstering authoritarian regimes in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. In the last year, China, Russia, and Iran have increased their presence diplomatically, economically, and even militarily in the region. These activities undermine democracies and challenge their credibility. Both China and Russia exploit the presence of transnational criminal organizations and amplify their destabilizing impacts on democratic governments. TCOs, traffic weapons, drugs, people, gold, lithium, rare earth minerals, commodities, and counterfeit goods, while contributing to the surge of fentanyl-related deaths here at home. The good news is, working with our very willing partners leads to the best defense. We must use all available levers to strengthen our partnerships with the 28 like-minded democracies in this hemisphere who understand the power of working together to counter these shared threats. The United States remains the preferred and most trusted security partner in the region. We build trust through investment in security cooperation programs that train and equip our partner militaries and security forces, a robust joint exercise program to build interoperability, and the development and employment of emerging technologies. Moreover, we maximize the resources allocated by the Department of State's International Military Education and Training Program, or IMED, for military financing, for military sales, to build interoperability and counterbalance the PRC's military engagements and investments. As the National Defense Strategy states, the U.S. derives immense benefit from a stable, peaceful, and democratic Western hemisphere that reduces security threats to the homeland. U.S. Southcom continues to innovate and adapt, putting integrated deterrents into action every day. We remain committed to working across all domains with allies and partners, combat commands, the Joint Force, the U.S. Interagency, non-federal entities, and the United States Congress to guarantee safety, security, and prosperity throughout the Western Hemisphere. This work and promise of U.S. Southcom as a part of Team USA in supportive team democracy is our pledge. Thank you for your assistance in resourcing this team. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. Thank you, General Richardson. General Gio, you're recognized five minutes. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Panetta, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. It's a profound honor to command and represent the men and women of North American Aerospace Defense Command and United States Northern Command. And I thank Ms. Zimmerman for acknowledging the sacrifice of two soldiers and a Border Patrol agent, as well as remembering the injured soldier from last week's helicopter crash along the Southwest border in Texas. As we speak this morning, American and Canadian military and civilian personnel from both commands are actively defending our homelands against significant, persistent threats from multiple vectors in all domains. Although I have only been in command a few weeks, it is readily clear to me that the United States, Canada, and our expansive network of partners are facing an extraordinarily complex strategic environment. Competitors seeking to diminish our military and economic advantage have fielded advanced kinetic systems designed to strike military and civilian infrastructure in North America, both above and below the nuclear threshold. Meanwhile, competitors have rapidly advanced and routinely used non-kinetic capabilities targeting our critical infrastructure and essential networks. Threats to the homeland are present in all domains along all avenues of approach to include the Arctic region. As stated in the National Defense Strategy, the People's Republic of China remains our pacing challenge as the People's Liberation Army modernizes and grows at a rapid pace. The PRC's expanding nuclear capability and capacity, along with its development of modern submarines, missiles, and hypersonic weapons all present significant challenges for homeland defense. While the PRC's capabilities are growing quickly, Russia remains a threat to the homeland today and is an immediate nation-state concern. Russia retains the world's largest stockpile of strategic and non-strategic nuclear weapons, along with significant capacity to strike inside North America with its air and sea launch precision conventional weapons. Despite heavy losses to its ground forces in Ukraine, Russia has invested heavily in systems that can threaten the United States, such as advanced guided missile submarines, hypersonic glide vehicles, ICBMs, as well as significant cyber and undersea capabilities and developmental systems such as a nuclear torpedo and a nuclear-powered cruise missile. Meanwhile, North Korea continues its bellicose rhetoric while test launching increasingly advanced long-range missiles and expanding its ties with China and Russia. While Iran currently lacks the capability to strike North America with long-range missiles, it is investing heavily in that capability. Iran also supports violent militant groups in the Middle East and maintains a worldwide network of operational surrogates. And the most prevalent and growing threats include cyber and small unmanned aerial systems that are being employed inside the U.S. and Canada against civilian and military infrastructure in ways that were not possible a few years ago. With those risks firmly in mind, NORAD and NORTHCOM strive to begin homeland defense well beyond North America. To do so, both commands are working with the services and Congress to improve domain awareness in order to detect, track, and defeat threats ranging from long-range ballistic missiles to small unmanned aerial systems. The defense of North America is an active endeavor that requires NORAD and NORTHCOM to campaign against all threats in all domains along all approaches. That effort requires seamless exchange of information with combatant commands, conventional and special operations forces, and the intelligence community, and the spectrum of interagency and international partners. The importance of collecting and disseminating information quickly cannot be overstated. I strongly support the Department's work to advance the combined joint all-domain command and control concept as we seek to detect and track potential threats and share information as quickly as possible with analysts, operators, and decision makers around the world. Finally, upon taking command, I began a 90-day assessment to inform the Department, the Joint Force, and Congress on NORAD and NORTHCOM's ability to execute assigned tasks and make recommendations on where the command could or should do more. Once complete, I look forward to sharing my findings and updated vision for how NORAD and NORTHCOM will best execute the noble mission of homeland defense. The challenges facing our homelands are real, but there should be no doubt about NORAD and NORTHCOM's resolve to deter aggression and, if necessary, defeat threats to our nations and our citizens. Again, thank you for the opportunity to appear this morning. I look forward to working with the committee, and I am happy to take your questions. Great. Thank you all, and I now recognize myself for questions. General Richardson and Gio, you heard me outline and you all talked about China's infrastructure investments throughout Latin America and the Caribbean. Are you all concerned about them taking those infrastructure investments and using them for military purposes? Chairman, yes. We are worried about that. And being able to flip the state-owned enterprise, critical infrastructure, what looks to be investment in the region, deep water ports, 5G, clean energy, the safe city, smart city technology, and space enabling infrastructure. General? Chairman, I completely agree with General Richardson from the NORTHCOM homeland defense perspective. It is something that I am watching very closely in the 90-day assessment, and I look forward to sharing what I learn as far as the specifics of what we can do to address that threat more completely. Well, obviously, I am concerned about it, and I am particularly interested in both you all. What would you like to see Congress do to help you counter those malign influences in the Caribbean and in Latin America? So, Chairman, I would say that we have got to be on the field competing for the tenders and the contracts that come out from the countries. And so, the countries put out the tenders, and our team USA, U.S. companies have got to be competing on that critical infrastructure. And so, over this past year, I have been partnering U.S. Southern Command with more closely with the interagency to try and break down those barriers that are there. Also, through the Inter-American Development Bank, Development and Finance Corporation, and all of the projects that come out of there, those are big money projects that can compete with Western solutions, team USA solutions, and support of the countries, and be a counter, an alternative to the Chinese companies, state-owned enterprises, that are competing on these contracts in the countries. General Giles, or anything that you need from Congress to help you counter those influences? Chairman, thank you. First, we will continue to cooperate with General Richardson and her command as the seams between Southcom and Northcom are seams that cannot be, we need to make sure cannot be exploited. Our approach to partnering with Mexico is primarily through the mill-to-mill arrangement. And with that, our Special Operations Command, which we call Sock North, works side-by-side with Mexican military to build capacity, capability, and eventually interoperability. What I would appreciate is continued support for those efforts as we strengthen that relationship on the south side of our border. Are those mill-to-mill authorizations that you have the funding levels adequate at present? Chairman, at the present time, they are sufficient. General Richardson, are yours? So on the security cooperation, not just yet, and with the bill, the defense bill that will be coming out for 24, we hope to receive what we did last year, and that would go a long way to meeting our requirement if we were to receive the same thing as we did in the previous year. Well, I appreciate your loyalty to the administration, but both of you are undercutting how much I think you need. I think the amount you received last year should be doubled at least this next year. With that, I will yield to Mr. Bonetta for any questions he may have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think, obviously, Russia has been occupied recently. However, they're still pretty active in the Arctic. And General Gio, I want to focus on that area. Obviously, with the expansion of NATO, creating more opportunities to secure the Arctic, it's becoming more critical that we leverage our Special Operations Forces capabilities and ensure that our personnel are trained, readied, and equipped to project power. However, I've had some discussions recently with some Special Operations Forces officers who talked about the difficulties that they've had, be it in resources that they have to operate in that area and the extremes that they have to deal with, but also that their training in Montana and Colorado no way compared to the actual environment of being in the Arctic. So we can't address the tactical-level difficulties without appropriately defining our mission in the Arctic. It remains unclear to many of our personnel what we mean when we say Arctic, which differs significantly by season and what Arctic readiness is versus Arctic capable and how we should operate in an austere environment defined by both economic and military interests. So, General, can you describe what our Arctic mission is and the Department's efforts to better align that mission across services? Congressman Panetta, our approach to the Arctic is— Could you pull the microphone a little bit closer, please? Yeah. Thank you. Sorry, Chairman. Congressman, our approach to the Arctic is vital to our overall homeland defense, because the Arctic comprises about 52 percent of the entire area of operation for NORAD and North Combs areas. And although we frequently talk about the Arctic in terms of Alaska, it is important to note that the high north and then also the northeast approach, which we call the 2 o'clock position, is extremely important. What you mentioned about the training of the forces is exactly right. We have well-trained forces, but unfortunately they train often in the United States and not up in the Arctic in Alaska, and therefore they need to have specific equipment, gear, and kit to make sure that it can operate in that harsh environment. As we speak, our Special Operations Command is conducting two operations in Alaska, Arctic Edge and ISACS, both of which are identifying the unique capabilities that we need to equip our forces to be able to fight there. And on the same—you pointed out the Special Operations on the other side, even with our Air Forces and Army Forces that operate very well in Alaska right now and are equipped for that. If a conflict in the Pacific would cause them to push forward, I am concerned that the forces back that would backfill there may be well-trained, but not specifically in Arctic techniques and then also with the gear necessary. So that is something that I will address with the services to ensure that we have depth in our Arctic capability. Great. And as you know well, with the expansion of NATO, including Sweden and Finland, how will using them as reliable partners, how do you think that is going to help us in our mission in the Arctic? Congressman, I think the immediate benefit will be strengthening that two o'clock approach that I just mentioned. If I could use a quick example for last week. We had two times where Russian bare bombers flew along that avenue for the first time in over two years, I should add, approaching the Canadian and United States air defense identification zones off the Northeast United States. As they approached, our ability to share intelligence and radar picture with NATO partners to include Norway were vital for us to have the situation awareness as those bombers approached our area. Great. General Gio, thank you for highlighting an area that I think we have to focus on a little bit more. I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. We will now yield to the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses and also thank you for the two sergeant majors in the Marine Corps because we know that four-star generals and admirals are nowhere without their sergeant majors. I want to address the fact that our forward deployed military performs a critical task in defending us in this Western hemisphere, which is often neglected in this conversation. I think we cannot take this for granted, especially as the People's Republic of China and the pacing straight threat that we have increases its influence over Latin America. Honduras recently joined the Belt and Road Initiative and Peru announced the construction of a massive Chinese financed deep water port. Now by my estimates, I think China has over 50 deep water ports like this. We have about two, but it's a tremendous disadvantage in what's growing over the past 10 years. China has replaced the U.S. as Latin's top trading partner. This means that they basically have greater influence in the Western Hemisphere and some of the most populous areas in this region to include Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Cuba, Honduras. The list keeps on growing. My concern is that as their influence continues to grow in the Latin America, how has it impacted Southcom's mission? How do we reestablish ourselves as good friends and the choice between two nations, one that I believe is very nefarious versus one that should be friendly as a global leader, especially in the Western Hemisphere? And General Richardson, if you could address this, please. Thank you, Congressman. So in my opening, I said, you know, the 28 like-minded democracies that we have in the region, we've got to partner better with them. And close to 15 to 20 years receiving less than 50 percent of my security cooperation requirement, as I mentioned last year's funding that we got in the 8068 section was very, very helpful. But we can't just get one year of additional funding to meet the requirement. And I would say that our presence absolutely matters and our security cooperation program is my number one lover in the Southcom AOR to partner with our militaries and the public security forces in the region and to provide the counterbalance to what the PRC is doing. And so, as I said, our presence absolutely matters. But when we're not there, with this additional funding last year in the 8068 appropriation, we were able to get further into the Southern Cones, so the countries of Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay with exercises and more engagement other than just a visit every once a year has really made a huge difference in terms of the partnering. But we have to be there. We have to have good security cooperation programs. We have to have flexible authorities that has opportunities open because they're only open for a short period of time to allow Team USA to be able to be responsive to our partners. And I'd say we also have a neglect in AFRICOM too for the same reasons. We just seem to look in different regions. We forget the places that we've in the past been very dominant now we are losing ground. Secretary Zimmerman, according to Customs and Border Patrol, so far this year we have encountered almost 19,000 Chinese nationals at the U.S.-Mexican border a more than 50-fold increase since 2021. I might add we have a record number crossing the northern border from the Chinese nationals as well. We acknowledge the threat from the People's Republic of China and it seems our poor southern border is in crisis already, which we've acknowledged. The American people are absolutely concerned as one of the number one issues in America. We know this is potential devastation to what could be terrorists, activities, stealing information, smuggling things in. We have almost 2 million people that got away. We wouldn't even know who they are. We don't know how many of them are Chinese nationals as well. On top of that, 258 individuals on the terrorist list have crossed the southern border since the start of 2021. And oh, by the way, we have a record number of Chinese coming in from all over the way, whether it be by air or by sea or by across the borders. Would you agree that this suspected terrorists and their potential PRC spies crossing the southern border are a national security threat? Congressman, you speak of a very important challenge. I think the crisis at the border includes a number of dimensions to include what we call extra hemispheric immigration. I think that any time we talk about those actors that would be they, terrorists, be they. I hate to cut you off. I'm almost out of time. I'm just going to make my point. I know you agree it's a threat. I just want to point out that when we talk about the difference between undocumented versus documented, just to clarify. Gentlemen's time has expired. Chair and I recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Veezy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the panel for being here today. And one of the things that is surprising to me around the issue that we're having at the border right now is people talk about it as if it's something that is brand new or something that just happened. But, General Richards, I wanted to ask you. I'm sure that you have studied the history. And remember when the Cali cartels and the Medellin cartels and Columbia was having issues dealing with far-left paramilitary organizations in that country created a great deal of instability from estimates that I've seen, depending on who you talk to, whether it's the Columbia government or from outside sources, between 1985 and 2002, perhaps anywhere from one to almost 3 million Colombians were displaced, some internally, but some sought refuge outside of Columbia. And one of the things that I wanted to talk with you about was playing Columbia that proved to be very effective in helping deal with a lot of that regional destabilization that happened, a lot of the mass migration that happened by improving security measures, economic development, and other areas that really helped finally bring and rein in some of the issues from the Wild West days under those two cartels. And I was hoping that you could perhaps tell us what additional steps you think the U.S. can take, including its military forces, to assist other unstable countries in the hemisphere in managing migration flows. And I'll answer that one first and then I'll have a follow-up to that. So there's a lot to unpack there, Congressman, because the effects of Venezuela and the seven and a half million migrants that have poured out of Venezuela as a result of the conditions there. And then coming into the region that is already economically impacted from COVID and still trying to dig out of the hole. And so as some will go through the southern cone all the way down to the southern cone and back up to only go through the very dangerous Darien jungle and make that trek. And so as we see the insecurity and the instability, families are on the move at unprecedented numbers. There used to be a lot of single movers, but now there are families with young children trying to find a better life. And so in my opening I talked about the potential of this region. A lot of talk about it 10 years ago to feed and fuel the world. That's the potential of this region. And if we can help this region realize that potential to slow down the migration, to have families feel secure and stable. But there's a lot of work to be done in order to do that. Ever since last April, prior to the Title 42 expiration, the United States signed a trilateral agreement with Columbia and Panama. That investment that you referenced planned Columbia was huge and our security relationship continues to be extremely strong with Columbia. And the operations that both Columbia with their military and Panama with their public security forces going after the criminal networks that are trafficking the humans. But they're not just trafficking the humans, it's drugs and all of the other portfolio, illegal mining, illegal logging, counterfeit goods. And so as we continue with the migration, a lot of the countries in the south com AOR have laws that that migration is a human right. And so they don't try to, their laws don't allow them to stop migration or slow the flow. So that's why our investment in the region with the safe mobility offices, the legal pathways, the administrator power said at best, I think that everybody knows how to get in touch with a smuggler to get an illegal pathway to the United States. But we have to have that campaign that folks know how to legally get to the United States. Our policies matter in this respect. And again, families are trying to realize the American dream. But how do we realize the American dream in the Americas with the potential to feed and fuel the world? So I think economic investment as well as security investment is absolutely necessary. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. Chair and I recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Alford. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm honored to represent two distinguished military installations, Whiteman Air Force Base in Fort Leonard Wood in our district. As you know, the Chinese spy balloon that penetrated our airspace last year flew above Whiteman Air Force Base, the sole home to the B-2 stealth bomber, and soon to be home to the B-21. General Gio, I want to start with you. The Chinese spy balloon last year highlighted disconcerting gaps in our all-domain surveillance and system of sensors that protect our homeland. What steps has North Command and NORAD taken to eliminate these gaps and mitigate risks? Congressman, I outline three immediate steps that I have shown promise and have been successful in identifying balloons that in the past we probably would not have seen. First and foremost, my predecessor, General Van Herk, directed the radar sensitivities to be adjusted, which would allow better detection of low radar cross-section, slow moving, and high altitude objects. Although it introduces some clutter in the system because the system is receiving more, it does allow us to detect threats like the one that you just mentioned. Second, when our operators see intermittent hits that in the past would be passed off to most usually weather or other phenomena that would cause an inconsistent hit, they are now continuing to track those more carefully and more consistently to ensure that it is not a balloon or some other phenomenon. And third is better domain awareness between the other combatant commands. As we get JADC2, the all-domain command and control system, the ability to share data from one combatant command to another instead of stopping at a black line on a map that divides the regions, now we can seamlessly share that information electronically to increase our awareness further away from our shores. General Richardson, you've highlighted the attempts by the People's Republic of China in our hemisphere, the investments they've made. What is their in-game in these investments? That's to gain a foothold in all of the critical infrastructure. We've seen it. It's not new in just South America and Central America and the Caribbean. It's happened in Africa and in Europe as well. But this is an intermediate step for what end? So I look at it as their way. In this region, we worry about basing for the PLA and the, as we have seen in other areas, but I look at the state-owned enterprises and the ability to be able to flip the use of that to possibly military application being sort of a basing strategy through critical infrastructure in the region. And if we were to become in a conflict with China, this would be very useful for them. And that's my concern is exactly that. Ms. Zimmerman, have members of Hamas or Hezbollah cross our southern border? And if so, how many? Congressman, I think I would have to take that back to get you rough numbers from DHS, since they have the lead on securing our nation's borders. But I'd be happy to talk to you in general about ours. But have they cross? Just without a number. Can you give me any information on that? I can't speak to that. As has been said earlier, I know that there are members of the terrorist watchlets who have been detained while crossing the border. Back to General Gio, what is the current nuclear threat in space from Russia? Congressman, the threat of nuclear weapons in space primarily from Russia is a constant and real concern. If I could, I'd like to address the specifics in a closed session. If there is an actual threat, should Americans know about it? Congressman, I think that it's important for all Americans to know of the wide variety of threats that face the homeland in all domains. Thank you for that. I appreciate your service to our nation. With that, I yield back. Chairman, I recognize Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. First, I apologize for being late this morning. Believe it or not, I cut myself shaving, and it simply would not stop bleeding. And that's the reason I wasn't here. I wish I had a better story, but that's basically it. I don't want to cover a lot of ground that's already been covered, but I did have an opening statement talking about it. I mean, obviously, the number one issue that we're facing out of both your regions is the migration challenge coming up out of Latin America, how that's certainly pressuring our border, but it is also putting a lot of pressure on nations throughout your AOR. I know Columbia, Panama, Chile, amongst others are facing that challenge and just the overall instability, and of course now instability coming out of Haiti as well. I think it's crucially important that we try to figure out some way to work with these countries to increase stability. We can talk about the border and what should we do to secure it, what laws should we pass, but at the end of the day, as long as there are millions of people desperate to get out of where they're at and come here, there's no 100% fix to the problem in that situation. There just isn't. So getting greater stability in that region, understanding also that many of the migrants come from outside of your region, get into Latin America and work their way up, is number one thing. And also I think Mr. Alford's point about China, the answer to the question of what is their in-game, China wants more influence in the world, and very specifically they want more influence than us. They want to build partnerships and relationships wherever they can to undermine our ability to have influence in the world and put themselves in a better and stronger position. They can see what that means. It would put them in a better position to bully their way into, gosh, a half-dozen countries where they claim territory, the Philippines, Indonesia, India, ironically, even Russia. So that's really what we're fighting for, is influence in the world and what they want to do. And I think it's really important that we build our relationships in Latin America to try and prevent that. And then on the North American side, again, I agree with Mr. Alford, trying to protect our airspace. Certainly we've learned of some model abilities in the last couple of years. I know General Guilio, you have addressed those and I appreciate that. But those are the broad concerns. One question I would have is, you mentioned the potential that exists in Latin America. I'd like both General Richardson and Ms. Zimmerman to address what can we be doing, what partners can we be working with to better realize that potential and reduce the chaos, reduce the drive that is pushing so many people out of so many countries in enforcing this migration? Ms. Zimmerman, why don't you go ahead and go first? Thank you so much, Congressman, for that question. I think you speak to an important set of things which is not simply what can we do to respond on America's worst day if we find ourselves in conflict with China, but how can we actually build the relationships now? Because that speaks to the values that we share as democracies. And the department, in conjunction with other departments and agencies across the U.S. government, is really working to reinforce those democratic values, is working to build strong defense partnerships. So, for example, the Secretary just attended the North American Defense Ministerial, which is a trilateral conversation involving Canada and Mexico. We have the Conference of Defense Ministers of the Americas, which will be coming up later this year, so to ensure that the department represents those values in those forums. But I think there's also work that we do in building partner capacity, and I'll let General Richardson speak to that. But I would also second what General Richardson said earlier, which is that some of the development finance, corporation efforts, our other economic efforts where we can nest those, where we can nest our activities in those common efforts, I think we can realize a lot of gains that would otherwise working in silos in the government not be possible. Thank you, General. So, Congressman, thank you for that, and thank you for the question. Certainly, the funding that I received last year and the 8068 funding, additional funding on top of what I received, really helped, and it had flexible authorities to help us be responsive to our partner nations. And as you know, and as I've testified before, and working with the DOD team, but also Department of State and the interagency to speed up our processes and form military sales, access to defense articles, and not take years to deliver a capability because these, our partner nations are, these heads of state are in the seat, generally one term of four years and they're working on a stopwatch, not a calendar. They need results within months, not years. And so that's what has led me to also partner with Department of Commerce, Department of Treasury, the American Chamber of Commerce because our economic security is really, really important here. So when you're talking about the realization of feeding and the fuel in the world, when half the soybean for the globe comes from this region, 30% of the corn and the, and the sugar comes from this region for the globe. You've got the Amazon, you've got 31% of the world's fresh water, you've got light sweet crude, heavy crude, you've got gold, copper, rare earth elements, the lithium triangle, 60% of the world's lithium is in this region. The potential is there. So how do we help with the economic investment? We have a lot of foreign direct investment from the United States already, but our U.S. companies in the region, we need to brand and start bragging about what Team USA does for the countries already. And then we have to help streamline the, how our companies, and if there are barriers to competing on the tenders for critical infrastructure in South America, Central America and the Caribbean. And that is part of that partnership that we've been doing. National security rests on economic security. Yeah. And just one comment, one final, final question. I think the security piece of this is crucial. And I know it's something that Congress writ large is wrestling with right now. You know, we, we have concerns when we sell arms or security equipment to other nations, what do they do with them? And those concerns are legitimate. But I hope everyone understands that every nation tries to figure out some way to provide for their own security. Okay. There is no nation out there that simply lays down their arms and hopes for the best. Okay. They try to maintain security and that's never easy. And it's always a very difficult balance. A partnership with these other countries, part of it is helping them provide that security. And our slow walking of arms sales is undermining our relationships throughout the world and opening the door wide for China and Russia. It is not like these nations are not going to get weapons if we stop selling them to them. They're just going to build different relationships. We've certainly seen that in the Middle East. And I hope we're mindful of the trade-off. Final question is our relationships in Latin America, you know, one of the big things Russia and China have an incredibly aggressive messaging machine. They are out there 24-7 denigrating us basically. It's a, it's a massive worldwide negative campaign that people here domestically pick up for a variety of different reasons. And one of the things they play off of is historical concerns about what the U.S. has done in a bunch of places, but particularly in Latin America. So when you're working with Brazil and Argentina and Chile, how do you push back against that negative campaign? Because it does seem to be having an effect. I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong on that point, but I think it is, it has hurt our relationships with a number of countries in Latin America, the battle with Cuba, the battle with Nicaragua, what's going on with Venezuela. How can we better varnish our own image so that we can have a better chance at building the partnerships we need to build? Well, I would, I would say, Congressman, thank you for that question, because the, we've got to be trusted partners. And we have a, we have the American Partnership for Economic Prosperity, APEP, which is a program from the Summit of the Americas. And APEP hosted at the White House in early November, 11 Latin America, Latin American heads of state that came. And for a week, they discussed the challenges in the region, but then also rolled out the programs of economic help in terms of, in modern ports, clean energy, and digital technology. And billions of dollars of programs and efforts of infusement of economic investment into the region through the Inter-American Development Bank, and also through Developmental Finance Corporation. And so with that, there are some shares, 75 million in shares that are coming up for vote this month that I would recommend that as we had this APEP in November and hosted these leaders at the White House, that we have got to, we have got to recommend that we purchase those shares from the United States, so we don't give our adversaries an opportunity to purchase them as part of the investment that we rolled out in the November timeframe. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman, I recognize the general lady from Virginia, Ms. Kiggins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for our guests for being with us today. Just a comment about the security potential that we have in Central and South America, and I think just prioritizing our funding so that we can put our money where our mouth is. The defense budget is always inadequate. And just making sure that we are, again, prioritizing that funding because it is so important. I wanted to speak and ask a little bit about Cuba. In my district, I represent Virginia's second congressional district, so we have Naval Air Station Oceana there. And they have recently moved their Strike Fighter Advanced Readiness Program or SFARP exercises back home to Virginia Beach because they are worried about activity in Cuba from the Chinese. Could you speak a little bit just about what concerns you have about Chinese activity in Cuba and what approaches we are taking to fortify the security and counter of our adversaries in this region? Thank you, Congresswoman. And certainly that concern being so close to the homeland is very concerning. The U.S. Interagency is working very hard to counter that effort, and I can talk to more about that in the classified session afterwards. Great. Thank you. And then I also want to talk about Haiti a little bit just because of the unrest and maybe Ms. Emberman, you can answer the question. Just with the recent news about the prime minister stepping down and understanding that we have increased our $300 million in just under $33 million in humanitarian assistance going to that region, and then talks of sending perhaps military as well. So can you just speak to what is going on there? Is there a possibility of us sending our troops to that region? Absolutely. I'm happy to speak to that, Congresswoman. So the situation in Haiti remains obviously very tense, and the U.S. is participating in both its own efforts and also efforts in support of CARICOM and other allies with respect to Haiti. So in terms of a troop commitment of U.S. troops, we are talking there only about security augmentation for our embassy in Port-au-Prince. There isn't discussion of sending in our military, but we are in support of the MSS, the multinational security support mission for Haiti. This is the Kenyan-led mission to train and support the Haitian national police. So there, the Department has increased its funding from $100 million to $200 million in order to better support the logistics and sustainment aspects of that mission in order to get the mission fielded as soon as we can. Thank you. And then also briefly, we see China adopting some of our tactics that we've developed, that we use to develop alliances with military exercises specifically with some of those 28 democracy countries that you mentioned. And that's kind of been how the United States has developed our friendships, and we have done military exercises together so that we understand each other's capabilities that were there for each other if needed. So we see China kind of adopting that and now doing their own types of exercises. Can you speak to where that is happening? Are those 28 democracies, are they steadfast in their relationship with us or are they turning around and then participating in exercises with potential adversaries of ours? I would say Congresswoman, in terms of you're absolutely right, the PRC is utilizing our playbook as well and not just in exercises, but key later engagements and things like that. So they're upping the ranks of the PLA that are now showing up to the exercises and the marines. And I would say that the way to, when I say our presence absolutely matters, it really does. And us being able to have an exercise several years ago, my exercise funding to get me down into the Southern Cone, Southcom and all of our components was reinstalled with the additional funding last year. And so happy to say that we're able to be there. But I would ask for that continued funding. I don't need to outspend the PRC to out-compete them. We just need to be there. We've got to be there. And I would say on the economic side of the House, if we're not there from Team USA, and responsive when opportunities open up and they need help, if we can't help them, then they're going to look to whoever has the cash or the loans or things like that in order to fund what they need. Again, for the presidents that are in the seat for a very short term of four years. So those, the 28 democracies that you talked about that are the friendly countries, are they pretty steadfast though in those relationships? Are they questioning our alliances just based off kind of what they're seeing with Russian, Ukraine, and our ability to provide aid to allies throughout the world? Is it having an impact in your- Genly's time has expired. Chair, I recognize the Genly from the great state of Alabama, Ms. Sewell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. And as the emerging threats environment facing the United States become increasingly complex, I really do appreciate your dedication to protecting our homeland, our citizens, and our troops. General Gio, is that right? General Gio. I first want to discuss hypersonic weapons, which have become a key component for both Russia and China. Hypersonics, high speed, low trajectory, and maneuvering capabilities pose a major challenge to our ability to identify and warn of inbound threats. With your priority of detecting, classifying, and tracking potential threats to the homeland, are we providing enough resources for reactive threat representation from hypersonics? Congresswoman, I share your assessment on hypersonics. I think that they are probably the most technologically challenging threat that we're facing, as well as the most destabilizing because of where they operate between established norms and weapons, specifically for NORAD and NORTHCOM, because both commands have a role with hypersonics. I'm comfortable with the trajectory that we're on to build systems that can detect and track. We have some capability today, but as the threat advances, we need to advance. And so staying on track with our over-the-horizon radar and some space-based systems, which will give us hypersonic detect and track capability is essential here in the coming years. So what about next generation technology with respect to hypersonics? Do you feel like we have enough resources around that? Because I really don't think we do. I understand that we don't have to outspend them, but we do have to be protective and show foresight. And so talk to me a little bit about that. Congresswoman, I agree. We need to double the efforts in, like I said, we can detect what we have today, but that's not where our adversaries will be in just a couple of short years. And that's on the defensive part. Obviously, not directly my realm, but then to deter keeping pace on the offensive side is important. And I know that my fellow commanders are looking at that as well. And I've also had some very good discussions with the Missile Defense Agency, MDA, about some of the systems that they're developing, both in the future as well as adapting current systems today to be able to defeat hypersonics. I'm highly interested in those. I just want to make sure that you know that there are those of us who are really quite concerned about that and would welcome the opportunity to talk further about it. Ms. Zimmerman, at your testimony, you discussed the impact climate change has on our military readiness. You highlight the Global Water Security Center at the University of Alabama, which utilizes DOD funding to provide education, training, and research-related water, food, energy, and natural disasters. Can you discuss how the Global Water Center assessments help combatant commands, strategic planning, and contribute to our national security? Thank you very much. I think in terms of some of those specifics, I'd like to get back to you in a little bit more detail. But I will say that our ability to get on the same page as a Department and as a government in our analysis, our understanding of the problem, is what is right now allowing us to begin to take action with the goal for the Department of really ensuring seamless operations when we need them, where we need them, regardless of the impact of climate change and extreme weather. Great. General Richardson, we continue to see our adversaries target our partners in South America from China's Belt and Road Initiative to Russia's Disinformation. With China emerging as South America's top trading partner, how can we use our trade initiatives like the America's Partnership for Economic Prosperity to deter China? I would say that we have to be what we said that we're going to do. We've got to follow through with that and do what we said we're going to do. And I think that that is a huge investment in the region. Eleven presidents from this region out of the 31 that came here to Washington, D.C., that shows you, I mean, I look at that as just a foot in the door to expand that. I mean, what a great first effort. And I'm so excited about this program, the attention, the investment. It's huge for Team USA and Team Democracy. And so if we can just make that even bigger and better, that's what we need to do. Thank you. I yield back now. Generally, it's time to expire. Chair, I recognize you're from Texas, Mr. Trill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to thank everybody for coming today and thank everybody for your service. Everyone in uniform and our veterans. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you for what you do to keep our families safe. Mr. Guilla, this is your first time in front of Congress. I think you missed an absolute great opportunity. Ms. Richardson, you failed on that one too. If the chairman of Hasks says, I think your budget should be doubled, your immediate response is you will have it by the end of the day. Tracking? Okay, good. Let's move on. My colleague from Alabama hit it on the head with hypersonics. It's very forward-leaning, and I think that's a very high-risk profile that we need to be addressing. But my other, my concern besides that is cyber. So I was hoping General Richardson and General Guilla, can you give me a kind of a high-level briefing on where we stand with cyber risk, cyber threat in both of your AORs and the advances in AI that we're in placing and how we function and the functionality with our partners because their footprint is far inferior to ours. It is. And the 14 major attacks on government networks in 10 countries over this past year, we can't respond fast enough and help our partners with training. The additional funding I received last year helps with the Security Cooperation Initiative, SSCI, for cyber. But our authorities in institutional capacity building, Triple 3, are not responsive enough. So I would say what help does the COCOMs need help with? Is that flexible funding with Triple 3 to help our partners? So when these opportunities, they're crises, but they're also opportunities to help our partners. And so they, that's what they rely on us for, being fast and being quick to help them. And so I would say that that would be what we would need help with. In the process of line-writing those exact things, we're going to need to present that to us so we know details. Yes. And in our Security Cooperation Initiatives for cyber, we're laying that out. And I have what's called a JCAT, a joint cyber assessment team from Southcom. It's like a quick reaction for us to help our partners and then do the institutional capacity building of training with them on cyber. But we need to do more on cyber because they're, the level of technology is, and how quick technology is happening, they cannot keep up with it. And so that's why they need our assistance with that. We're more than willing to assist you with that, especially giving the advancements in cyber risk and cyber threat. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, ma'am. General. Congressman, first thanks, message received on the funding. Solid. As far as cyberspace, with all the threats that we face in the homeland and all domains, the most persistent and present threat that we face is the cyber threat. We see attacks every day on or attempts to attack our networks every day on both the, we have four networks in Northern Command that we use to, you know, conduct our mission that we protect. And then also across the DOD network that we work in primarily with cyber command to make sure we're defending, as well as with CISA and the FBI on the defense critical infrastructure. So I share your concern on that. That is certainly the most persistent and challenging threat that we face. I have confidence in our detect, but you don't know what you don't know. And then so continued emphasis on this is something that you'll see from NORA and Northcom. Perfect. This is a language not very many people speak. And it seems as if, as these attacks happen daily, every half second, they are so repetitive. I don't want it to be siloed in a way that the Armageddon happens and like, well, we've been, this has been happening for years. We just, we didn't know how to number one address that up and out of the organization or combat it. So I'm asking you to share with us as best you can where we stand, where we need to move, how we need to flex left, right of center in order to not become victims in this space. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Jimmy yields back. Chair and I recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Davis. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and to our witnesses today. I've actually taken my second trip while serving in the 118th Congress to the Southern border. I visited most recently the Del Rio sector to witness the evolving crisis firsthand. While there, we had the opportunity to meet with those who are working on the front line. So we definitely appreciate the service and all the work that's taking place that's going into it so far. Mr. Zimmerman, while on Eagle Pass, we learned there have been more than 120,000 known guideways so far, fiscal year 2024. How do you compare the threat posed by these individuals, some of whom are on the terror watch list, with those who are actually unknown? I couldn't understand your last question. Yes. How do we compare those to those who are unknown? To those who are unknown. Yes. While Congressman, I think the work that we're doing, not just in Eagle Pass, but in other places in support of the Department of Homeland Security and our CBP colleagues, is intended to minimize that number of known guideways. We do a lot of detection and monitoring in support of CBP, which helps to ensure that CBP can respond where they need to, when they need to. In terms of those who might be affiliated with terrorist criminal organizations, et cetera, I think it's a small number relative to the other guideways. But of course, as General Kio said with respect to cyber, we can't know what we don't know. Is it safe to say if we know that what we don't know, that there are some unknowns? I mean, is it only an assumption that there are likely some who may have been on a terror watch that could have been unknown or identified as unknown? Congressman, I think this is really a question for the Department of Homeland Security, which leads those efforts. Okay, thank you. Moving on then, Ms. Zimmerman and General Gio. When we talked in terms of transnational criminal organizations like the drug cartels, my question is how can we better predict then the next epicenter of the crisis based on resources that may be at our hands? Congressman, with regard to countering the TCOs, NORAD has some very specific guidance from the Department on how we can assist. And the way we present that is through partnering with various lead Federal agencies in the area of intel support, more particularly by targeting the network using some of the techniques that Special Operations Command and Central Command have used effectively overseas with terrorist networks using some of those same techniques to help illuminate on the cartels. And so through our JTF North, that's where we present that capability to the interagency. It's hard to add to that. I think that was a very comprehensive answer. But broadly speaking, we work in conjunction with other departments and agencies, making sure that we're breaking down those silos. I was also on the border just, I think, the week before last, speaking with our colleagues from JTF North and hearing from them that our cooperation with CBP and by extension the Border Patrol I think is more thorough and deeper than it has been in many years. Okay. In general, Gio, you're men and women who've augmented in terms of the Department of Homeland Security for, I believe, 18 years now. It's my understanding that this was never intended to be an enduring mission as it's become. Can you describe the impact that it has on those who continue to serve? Congressman, while it hasn't been intended to be an enduring mission, we recognize that our partners need help and the Department has tasked Northcom to do that. The readiness that you alluded to is a very big concern of mine. We operate in three primary areas. In the aviation, I think that we can maintain our readiness for other worldwide missions in the course of the support missions. But some of the other ones, the logistical support and the detection and monitoring, require us to take them off the line and conduct other trainings so they can keep their worldwide readiness while they're conducting the Southwest Border Mission. And that's something that I and JTF North track very closely. Thank you. You'll back, Mr. Chair. Thank you, gentlemen. Chair now recognizes the General from Alabama, Mr. Strong. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank each of you for being here today. General Gio, the next generation interceptor will play a critical role in U.S. Northern Command mission and Homeland Defense. Your predecessor, General Van Herk, told the Senate Armed Services Committee on March of 2022 that the United States needs to deploy the next generation interceptor, NGI, by 2028 or sooner to keep pace with our adversaries. What is your assessment of the current NGI schedule given the evolving threat picture? Congressman, I agree with General Van Herk's assessment. It's one of the first things I looked at upon taking command. I still feel that 2028 is the point where if we have not fielded this system by then that we run the risk of falling behind the advances of competitors most notably North Korea. But at this time, I feel that we have the capability to defeat that threat, but we must stay on time with NGI in order to preserve that capability. Thank you. Just to confirm you agree that fielding the NGI as soon as possible is critical for defense of the homeland. Congressman, I absolutely agree with that. Thank you. If the NGI program failed, like its predecessor, what would that mean for the homeland defense system, missile defense system? Congressman, I will go into details in the closed session, but it would mean that we are not keeping pace with the rogue nations in particular North Korea. That would be a very bad thing, correct? It would be a very bad thing, sir. As we have seen others now canceled portions of the ground-based mid-course defense system, maintaining competition as long as possible is critical. The acquisition strategy for NGI is the gold standard and the plan has always been to carry two teams through at least critical design review. This is why I'm extremely concerned by reports that the department is now officially planning to conduct an early down-select for NGI. NGI is the future of homeland missile defense and we don't have another capability in the pipeline if these programs fail. Are you concerned with the amount of risk that hasty cost-cut measures would add? Congressman, I'm concerned with anything that would give us a less than capable NGI system. I'll defer to the department and MDA on the specifics of the contracting measure, but I do have frequent and thorough discussions with MDA to ensure that the operational requirements that were established by Northcom are being met. Thank you. I understand that you're not going to go against your balls, but would you say that the next generation interceptor is a no-fail mission? Congressman, I believe NGI is a no-fail mission. Then why would we put all our eggs in one basket earlier than planned? Congressman, to the specifics of the contract and the procurement, I have to defer to the MDA experts. Again, I'm very concerned by the proposed major change to policy for NGI and I look forward to continuing discussions with the DOD on how it intends to mitigate the extreme risk of an early down-select. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. I recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. DeLuzio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for being here. You've highlighted examples today in your testimony and in your written testimony of how the Chinese Communist Party is increasing infrastructure investments in the Western Hemisphere, certainly concerning what also concerns me, though, is their access to our own infrastructure here in this country. Our maritime ports, for example, the Wall Street Journal highlighted just last week nearly 80 percent of our ship-to-shore cranes are Chinese-built, many containing unexplained covert communications capabilities and equipment. I think the vulnerabilities there are obvious. I was happy to see last year's NDA, Section 7405, require an assessment of the threat posed by these cranes. I support HR 3169, Mr. Jimenez and Garamendi and others as well, the Port Crane Security and Inspection Act. So, General Guille, I'll start with you. Given that much of our ported infrastructure is privately owned and we see these vulnerabilities in public reporting, what is Northcom's responsibility here and where is private or corporate responsibility lie as well? Congressman, primarily the defense of the ports is a private matter. However, in particular in the cyber realm, Northcom has a very vested interest in it because of our defense of critical infrastructure role. In particular, this is where we on behalf of requested support from the private companies, if they request help in the cyber in cooperation with CISA and Cyber Command, any support given to them with cyber defense from DoD would be synchronized and presented through Northcom. Do our adversaries care for our infrastructure is owned by a private or public entity? Well, I don't believe so. I think they, Congressman, I think they worry about their own interest and not ours. Related to that, and my district and many others saw Nation State Actors attack critical infrastructure, the Alequipa Water Authority in Western Pennsylvania, my district experienced an attack. I'm not alone in that. How do you see those vulnerabilities to our critical infrastructure not just threatening our way of life, our prosperity, but undermining defense? Congressman, the way I see it undermining defense is it could potentially, you mentioned water, the ports, electricity, any number of rail, any number of those systems that aren't considered to be military or defense department actually are very important to us as we look to project forces overseas. We would use all those capabilities to support combatant commands around the world. So that's why in my Homeland Defense responsibilities, I take a special interest in that. Thank you. And Ms. Emmer, I'm going to come to you. I'll just say this. I mean, you outlined the Homeland Defense policy guidance in your testimony. A quote here must be a quote, focus on defending defense critical infrastructure against attacks and all domains and build resiliency and redundancy. And the general went to it. There are pieces of non-defense critical infrastructure that Defense Department military facilities rely on. Can you tell me more about that and how you worry about those vulnerabilities? Congressman, I'd be glad to. This is a major effort that the Department is undertaking now in support of the resilience of defense critical infrastructure. And we recognize that a large part of the infrastructure on which the Department of Defense relies is not defense owned. Some of it is federal infrastructure owned by federal partners and some of it is in the private sector. The Department of Defense is the sector risk management agency for defense critical infrastructure. There are SRMAs for all of the varieties of critical infrastructure. We come together in the Federal Senior Leader Council, which is managed by CISA, to talk about cyber threats. And we talk about those in a cross forum where we're able to talk with those agencies about the infrastructure on which the Department of Defense depends. And so we're able to make decisions. We're able to make sure that the risk management constructs that those agencies are pursuing accommodate the needs of the Defense Department. But in addition to that, we're making efforts to reach out to our federal, state, local, tribal and territorial and private sector defense industrial-based partners. So we've recently reformed some of our guidance about how we're able to talk about these issues in order to allow us to have classified conversations and unclassified conversations in a much more fulsome way with those partners so that they can understand where our dependencies are. We're also working in conjunction with CISA, some of our FEMA colleagues, to support the better mapping of critical infrastructure in order to draw out what those dependencies look like. Thank you. And I'll just close with the question I asked to General Guillaume. Do you think our adversaries care if the thing they are targeting is defense, civilian, private? Does it matter to them? I think they absolutely do not. I think they will target the areas that are weakest, and we have to be prepared. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Chairman, I recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Laloda. Thank you, Chairman. I represent a district in New York, and I want to start by offering my condolences to the families of two New York National guardsmen, Chief Warrant Officer Casey Frankowski and John Gracia, who were killed in the recent helicopter crash on our southern border. Their services and sacrifices to our great nation cannot be forgotten. Generals, Ms. Zimmerman, we have a problem in America's southern border, and crises at many of America's cities and states. And I want to use my time to address the impact of your areas of operations. Southcom, especially, General Richardson, have on our security at America's southern border, and in states like New York. Just a few years ago, MS-13, with many roots in Al Salvador, had a massive and destructive presence on Long Island where I represent. The motto of MS-13 for folks at home who may not know is kill, rape, and control. And while MS-13 was largely eradicated on Long Island several years ago, credit to a good partnership between the Federal Government and local law enforcement, I am concerned about the resurgence of MS-13 or a group like it. And I am concerned because there are two policy choices going on that are exacerbating the flow of migrants across the southern border and to states like mine. Those policies are the administration paroling millions of noncitizens into the United States and New York City's migrant crisis, which is exacerbated by their sanctuary policies. In light of these concerns, I am eager to explore how we can bolster our defenses and ensure that Long Island continues to contribute effectively to our national defense architecture. General Richardson, the administration states that are properly vetting all the migrants who come to the United States before paroling them in the United States. Yet critics contend that the proper vetting would entail much more, would entail full cooperation from the migrant's home country and awareness of that home country and what that individual's background is, cooperation between that host nation's law enforcement and intelligence services. General, in your capacity as Southcom Commander, is it safe to say that you've become familiar with the El Salvador military? Yes, I am familiar with the El Salvador military. Are you familiar with the El Salvador government? No, Congressman. How about some of the local police departments? No, Congressman. Given your expertise with the military component, can you tell us how the intelligence apparatus in countries like El Salvador compares to the United States? It's definitely not as robust, Congressman. Scale of 1 to 10. If the United States is the 10 standard, where would you put nations in your AOR? In terms of the intelligence capacity, I would say they have the advantage of having home turf advantage, but I would say inside their country it would be a 10. And then as we encourage our partners to work together across their borders to share information, because all of them are experiencing some form of all of the threats that I've talked about, and so them working together better, not just within their own borders, by national operations that we see taking place between Columbia and Ecuador, the work that Columbia and Panama is doing cross-border on migration as well. So inside the home country, you're saying they have a decent awareness. I appreciate that. You also said that you don't, there's no fault of your own. Your command doesn't necessarily have a relationship with the government there, or law enforcement, I understand as well. What would you say with respect to the intelligence sharing from countries like El Salvador to the United States? Is that a mutual thing? Is it one way? Is it minimal? How would you characterize the intelligence sharing between us and El Salvador? I would say that the work that the ambassador has done on the ground, our U.S. ambassador to El Salvador, and the work that we have and the relationships that we have with El Salvador, we have a robust relationship, military to military. And so the sharing of information, I think, from El Salvador with the United States is good in that respect. But you don't, are you aware of any relationships that either State Department or other U.S. officials have with some of those more national or local law enforcement entities? Uh, you'd have to speak to them, Congressman. Okay. Focusing on drug trafficking, narcotics, transitional organizations like MS-13, what sort of intelligence have you shared in this setting, I understand, with countries like El Salvador with respect to entities like MS-13 and drug trafficking? I have relied on the State Department and the U.S. ambassador in terms of the intelligence sharing that they would do with the country of El Salvador. Thank you. Appreciate your service. My time has expired. I yield back. Thank you, gentlemen. Chair, now I recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to share my sense of the situation with respect to fentanyl production in Mexico. And if I'm wrong, I'd like you to correct me. My understanding is that there are two cartels that are producing the vast majority of the fentanyl that comes into the United States that we know where these cartels are, that the Mexican government, more specifically the President of Mexico, has been very reluctant to acknowledge this problem, let alone respond to this problem, and specifically has been very reluctant to enter into any kind of military partnership with us, that we could be much more effective and helpful than we are being allowed to be by the Mexican government. Is any of that wrong? That's my understanding. Feel free to correct me. Congressman, I can't refute anything that you said. I would point out that as part of the 90-day assessment that I'm undergoing, I am looking very closely at the operational environment, specifically with Mexico and how we address that transnational criminal organizations. At the conclusion of this, I will brief the Secretary on my findings and then I'll be happy to share after that with this body. My sense is that part of one of the success stories that we have to tell with the introduction of drugs and combating cartels is with Venezuela, because many years ago the Venezuelan government accepted our help, accepted our military assistance with respect to running offense on the cartels. Senator Richardson, am I right in my understanding of that, that we were able to be very helpful there? So the Giorgio has Mexico and his AOR in terms of with the cartels, and I would say with the transnational criminal organizations in my region and the insecurity and the instability that they continue to create and their portfolio has diversified and they become more powerful. As I was saying before this, our country is working together to try and eliminate those threats and share the information on those threats that are in the South America, Central American region is extremely important. I think what I'm driving at is I think there are good examples of times in which other countries have entered into military partnership with us in order to run offense on cartels and it feels like that would be an appropriate partnership right now with Mexico and the president of Mexico is resisting this for reasons that I'm sure none of us fully understand and at the conclusion of your 90-day assessment, this is going to be a point of extreme interest for a lot of people because I have people who are dying every day in my state, every single day. And the sense is when we hear statements from the Mexican president like this is not a problem, this does not exist as a problem, we know that's not true and it colors all of our thinking about well what does the solution to the problem really look like? Can we solve the problem when the president of Mexico refuses to acknowledge its existence, let alone refuses to accept our assistance in dealing with this as other nations have to their benefit in the past? Can you describe and I know you're still within an assessment the current scope of our assistance to Mexico with respect to running offense on cartels? What does it look like right now, such as you can? Congressman Northcom is authorized to participate in the counter TCOs by providing intelligence support. We run the Info Analysis Center in Mexico City where we coordinate with the lead federal agencies for the U.S. as well as cooperate with General Richardson's Giada South for a full approach of South of our border to include into Southern Command's AOR. So in that center we target the network, we assist with targeting the network with our intel specialists and then distribute the information to the interagency which- What I hear you saying is purely intel at this point, nothing tactical. Is that rough for the assessment? That is correct. Thank you. I yield back. The gentleman yields back to you and I'll recognize you. I'm from Texas, Mr. Fallin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, when I saw the topic of the hearing a few days back, you know, security challenges of North America, South America, I immediately thought about Venezuela. I want to take my five minutes to ask about Venezuela and Cuba in the MS-13, like my colleague from New York did, or the Mexican drug cartels. And then it dawned on me that I did pay attention in elementary school in America as part of North America. So why aren't we talking more about focusing my five minutes on securing our own border? And what I wanted to do is ask General Guillaume, do you think that if you had- I would- I assume we all agree that border security is a national security issue. Just do we agree on that, General Guillaume? Congressman, I do agree. Yeah, okay. I don't think that's a real reach. And what concerns me is when I look back at prior administrations and the two prior administrations before the current one, at this juncture in their administrations, they had about 1.7 million illegal border crossings. Unfortunately, that's now, depending on exactly what status it's hovering around, 8 million. Would you agree that that is a troubling trend? Congressman, the role of Northcom on the border is to support the Department of Homeland Security and the Customs and Border Protection in support roles that don't relate to the law enforcement. Sure. But General, I count eight stars on your shoulders. Do you think that that's a troubling trend? Would you rather- the fewer illegal crossings we have, is that- would you agree that that's better? The fewer, the better? Yes, I would agree with that. Because we don't know who a lot of these folks are. And in the prior administration, we had a couple of years where we had three three individuals on the tariffs watch list that were apprehended. And then this past fiscal year, I believe it was 169. That is an alarming difference. Would you not agree? Congressman, I agree that any threats that come into the U.S. would be concerned to me as the Northcom commander. So with- let's talk about the Mexican drug cartels. Clear and present danger to the United States? Would you agree with that statement? Congressman, I would- I would say that it's certainly a national challenge and a national concern. So I'd say you would agree with that. That the cartels are a danger to the United States. The Mexican drug cartels- Cartel activity does pose a danger to the United States. Okay, so we don't want to embolden them. We'd like to have them weakened because the more the stronger they get, the more they endanger American citizens. Would that be accurate? That's not a trick question, General. Well, but it's- Really? I mean, all right. Well, General Richardson, do you think that that is a clear and present danger if the Mexican drug cartels are emboldened and make more money? Does that endanger the United States? Yes, because they're getting stronger, more powerful, and they're diversifying their portfolio. So they're not just doing drugs and trafficking people, but it's illegal mining, illegal logging, counterfeit goods. Some of the worst people on the planet. It is, and they're getting stronger. So we have to- we really have to band together with all of our countries, all the countries in all of the- across the globe to counter this, because they're taking advantage of countries that haven't experienced this kind of activity before, and this kind of crime, and they're behind the eight ball trying to counter this before trying to get ahead of it once it occurs. And I apologize for interrupting a little, but I just have limited time. And as a 03, I don't usually interrupt 010s. But so Mexican drug cartels present a clear and present danger, and they are charging, depending on who you talk to, between four and $7,000 per illegal migrant coming into the country. So it's standard reason that the more illegal migrants crossing the southern border, the more emboldened the cartels get, the more power they get, the more they endanger the American people. And that's exactly why we want to limit the illegal crossings on the southern border. And that's why, for instance, I'm also very concerned, and we'll give it another go, General Guillaume, with Chinese nationals crossing the southern border. There was a couple years back where we had 450 apprehended, most of the military age men, now depending on who, again, what you talked to, it's $43,000, $50,000. Is that an alarming trend for you, General Guillaume? Yes, Congressman, it is. Yeah, it tremendously so. And that's why, again, we have to do everything we can. Director Raven said that there's ISIS elements that are also crossing the border as well. So I just can't emphasize enough how important it is to take this seriously. I don't think it's a political matter. I think it's an absolute matter of national security. And I thank you for coming today. And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thanks. Chairman Hewitt's back. Chairman, I recognize Jen Lee from California. Ms. Jacobs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As one of the few members on this committee who actually represent a border community, I feel like I just need to make sure we are setting the records straight on these issues. First of all, San Diego, the community I represent, is one of the safest cities in America, not despite being on the border, but I'd argue because of it. And I think my colleague from El Paso would likely say the same thing. And despite the fear mongering on display here today, on my regular trips to the border, I think it's clear that the best way to actually weaken the drug cartels is to make sure that we have more legal pathways for people to come here and to make sure we can let our Border Patrol agents actually focus on national security by, for instance, funding the child well-being program so that we're not having Border Patrol acting like social workers. And I would just, you know, all the people they're saying on the terrorist watch list that we've seen come through, we know that because we have caught them, which means the system is actually working. So in any case, just wanted to put that at the top. General Richardson, I'd like to ask you actually about the Southcom Human Rights Office. You know, it was established in the late 90s and I think it's been a clear success in how we integrate human rights directly into daily operations. Could you speak to how the Human Rights Office has benefited Southcom, how it's improved the Command's relationship with human rights advocates in civil society, and if there's anything more you need from us to best be able to utilize the Human Rights Office? So thank you for that, Congresswoman. The Human Rights Office in Southcom that we've had for over 20 years has been a huge enabler. And the ability to, you know, everything that we do, it's baked in. It's a core foundational principle. And human rights, the rule of law, and the professionalization of the militaries as we work with our military partners in the region, that is at the top of the list. And then just infusing that in terms of all of the programs, and then it dovetails nicely into women peace and security, the integration of women into the forces, the militaries and the public security forces, our enlisted leader development program, which is a rock star program. That's what makes our US military so strong is our enlisted force. And what we do is we bring that program to the region and help our partners make that stronger. And so with my sergeant major sitting behind me today, very, very proud of that program. And but our Human Rights Office, I just did a human rights engagement last Friday. And I try to do that just about every six months. I meet with human rights organizations when I travel in the region as well to hear their perspective, because it's a perspective that you have to understand not just our military to military perspective, but what is happening on the ground, what they're seeing, what they're concerned about. And because that factors into everything that we do to help countries. And I think with the Human Rights Office that we've been able to over the years with the relationships we've built, but actually, as our partner nations have had to be mobilized to help their police. And we talk about honoring their constitution and the importance of honoring their constitution, not just a person that might be in the leadership seat. When those gray zone areas come into effect, that's where we really see the benefits of the hard work of our Human Rights Office in Southcom. Thank you. And could you share a little bit about the 25th anniversary celebration that happened in Miami in 2022? So thank you for that. We had numerous countries close to 20 partner nations that came and there were so many people that wanted to come and it was we had just really extended an invitation to the militaries, but ministers of defense wanted to come. A couple of congressional folks from the countries wanted to come too because they were so excited about it. And then we've had a couple nations join the Human Rights Initiative. It's a non-binding agreement. It's just a commitment to double down on supporting human rights and being aware of it. And the training that goes into the partner nations, militaries and public security forces. Thank you. And in my last 30 seconds, could you just share how the Human Rights Office interacts with the civilian harm mitigation and response policy? And so the the chimera as we call it for the as an acronym, but the those meetings occur regularly with our office of the Secretary of Defense, so with OSD and the joint staff. And so the engagement and and the importance of that only brings that up to a higher level with broader engagement strategy. And so I appreciate the work by the joint staff and OSD to do that forum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I go back. Thank you, Mrs. McClain for Michigan's recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all for being here. General Richardson with the recent breakout in violence in Haiti. The administration has done has seemingly abandoned Americans again. The administration was able to pull out state department staff in our embassy this weekend, but made little attempt to rescue other Americans on the island. While I appreciate the part the departments announced additional funding for the MMS mission, the additional funding will not solve the problem. So General Richardson, my question is, were you contacted or consulted by anyone at the White House or the State Department about Americans trapped in Haiti? Regarding Americans trapped in Haiti, no, we had we were pulling out nonessential personnel. So you didn't have any discussion regarding the Americans that were trapped in Haiti, just government officials or nonessential government personnel to reduce that number. Was there any conversation among your staff on the rescue of the Americans in Haiti? What was the plan for those? There possibly were discussions above my level regarding that. And I know that as the political negotiations continue in Jamaica with our with our Secretary of State and curacom leaders to try and get to a political solution on Haiti. So as of right now, what is the plan for the Americans trapped in Haiti? And so the as we work forward the as the administration creates a requirement for DOD to to bring out trapped Americans in Haiti. We will absolutely do that from South Com. And I can appreciate it. But as of right now, we don't have any plans to get Americans home. That's what I heard you say. I don't have a request for support to bring any Americans. I appreciate that. Thank you yet. And what is the situation in your opinion in Haiti right now? Well, in terms of the violence that the gangs over 300 gangs, about 7,200 gang members that were tracking and the activities that they've taken over this past week to create violence. They've made four demands for the Prime Minister to resign for elections to be held within 90 days that they be given amnesty for the crimes that they've been committed. And again, ma'am, I don't mean to cut you off. Is the situation pretty dire over there? Or is it business as usual in Haiti? No, I would say that they because of what the gangs have done and taken advantage of the Prime Minister being out of the country, they've consolidated and conducted simultaneous attacks across. So pretty dire. Is that a fair assessment or am I over exaggerated situation? The security situation is dire in Haiti. Thank you. Was there any intelligence indicating the potential threat of a violent takeover prior to last week that was not expected that the gangs would we had not seen the gangs really work together or coordinate together before the once the Prime Minister left, there was no indication that they had done that before or that they were going to do that once he departed. So prior to there was really no indication or no intel that we would end up in this situation that they would be working together and conducting simultaneous attacks. Okay. Ms. Zimmerman, did the Secretary of Defense consult with the Secretary of State regarding any options on protecting Americans in Haiti? Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of State along with other members of the U.S. government have had numerous discussions about Haiti as this situation has continued to evolve. With respect to Americans in particular, of course, the Department maintains prudent planning for evacuations wherever we have diplomatic processes, but the embassy remains open as of now. Okay. I'm asking these questions because this is the third time this administration has abandoned Americans abroad in dangerous situations. We don't have a plan to get them out. You just said that. Last night I coordinated with Congressman Corey Mills to rescue several Americans trapped in Port-au-Prince. Congressman Mills actually participated in the rescue of those Americans abandoned by the Biden administration and the State Department. So I ask you all, what exactly is the plan to get Americans trapped in Haiti out? We don't have one. Mr. Chairman, this administration doesn't seem to have a problem with abandoning Americans overseas. This is now the third instance where President Biden and Secretary Blinken have decided that American lives are irrelevant. First in Afghanistan, Israel, and now Haiti. I yield back. With that, Ms. Escobar from Texas is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I'd like to thank our witnesses for your service and for your presence here today. This is such an important conversation. I'm eager to dive in. But first, I want to say we recently lost two New York guardsmen and a Border Patrol agent, and I'd like to express my condolences, especially to the families and recognize their incredible service. General Richardson, I want to thank you in particular for all of the engagement that I've had the honor and privilege to have with you over the years. Thank you for your leadership. I have the incredible honor of representing El Paso, Texas, which is home to Fort Bliss. And over the course of that time, I will share, one of the frustrations for me has been that Congress has not focused on the Western Hemisphere to the extent that I believe we need to. And when we are encountering challenges at our nation's front door, that's an example of us acting too slowly and not quickly enough. And as I listened to one of my colleagues on the other side of the dais talk about the border, which again, I agree with my colleague, Ms. Jacobs, presents challenges, but border communities like El Paso are among the safest in the nation for a reason. But as we think about challenges that we face at the border, we've got to think about investments beyond the border and strategies beyond the border if we want to be successful. And that's what I'd like to focus on actually with my first question, beginning with you, General Richardson. Southcom, in particular, is one theater where our dollars, though small in comparison to investments in other theaters, can stretch quite far in terms of return on investment. There is immense value in looking to secure our homeland and address these threats at the source before they arrive at our door. Can you give us some insight on the feedback you're getting from our personnel in Southcom, as well as the counterparts of our cooperating nations on the value of these dollars? What risks do we take on by underinvesting in these efforts, especially in an era of great power competition? Yeah, so thanks, Congresswoman, and thank you for your service. And so certainly the investment that we make with our partner nations and security cooperation, and I mentioned the work that Columbia and Panama do together. So as migrants flow out of Venezuela looking for a better life and being able to get food and healthcare and be safe, the operations that the military is doing to go after the criminal gangs in Columbia, and then the border forces, Center Front and Sonan and Panama, as they work to do the same thing, to go after the criminal groups that are conducting all the crimes, the drug trafficking, the human trafficking, illegal mining, logging, all of it, counterfeit goods. And as they've done these operations against these criminal groups and transnational criminal organizations, they've actually been able to find all these other things, all these counterfeit goods, the drugs, the human trafficking. And so they've actually doubled down operations and continue those operations, which they started last April and 2023. And they've continued those to get after helping in their respect to try and reduce migration and the criminals that are doing the human trafficking. And so the investment that we make with our partners is huge in terms of them being able to counter the threats inside of their countries. And I think that they're doing everything that they can to get after that. But as their laws, some of their laws don't facilitate stopping migration and stemming the flow. We see activities to do that, but their laws don't support the military and police to do that as a see human right, as a migration, as a human right. Thank you, General Richardson. In my closing few seconds, I would just say I am equally alarmed by the growing sophistication and power of the cartels. They are a global threat, but one of the ways to address the cartels and undercut them and take vulnerable humans out of the hands of them as human traffickers would be for Congress to open up legal pathways instead of what I consider a dereliction of our responsibility to reform outdated immigration laws for decades. Thank you all again for your service. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you. Mr. Walts from Florida is recognized for five minutes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Two weeks ago, the FBI's Miami field office issued a public alert seeking information on Majid Farhani, a member of Iran's Ministry of Intelligence and Security, who's been recruiting individuals, quote, for operations in the U.S. to include lethal targeting of current and former government officials. Those are the Trump administration cabinet officials that to this day have to have security because of the threat from Iranian operatives on American soil, and they're seeking to avenge the 2020 death of Qasem Soleimani. As you all know, the Justice Department has convicted an Iranian operative for cooperating with Mexican cartels and conspiring to blow up a restaurant here in Washington, D.C. some years ago. So General Richardson has Iran attempted or is Iran using Venezuela as a springboard to launch clandestine operations in the United States? The I'd be able to talk to you about that in a better in a closed session, but in terms of the we I mean it's publicly reported General that the Maduro regime is cooperating with with Iran is providing documentation to help them get into the United States. I mean this is for the American people to understand with the we have a public notice. Yes of their cooperation and activities with with China, Russia, and Iran. Can you comment on the level of cooperation? I mean the Maduro regime is sponsoring facilitating these activities, right? Yes they are sponsoring activities and and allowing visits to occur and the cooperation that they do with these countries. So let the record show the Maduro regime where we have now are easing sanctions this administration is easing sanctions under the Barbados Agreement is facilitating assassins to come into the United States to assassinate senior American officials. General Richardson also changing topics to the narcotics that are flowing into this country. Jied of South currently employs a special a ship special mission which is essentially a refueling resupply ship to allow our partners to extend their range. We have one which is I think incredibly valuable but Miss Zimmerman I'm surprised that we've received a report back from the Pentagon that adding another ship so that we can interdict on the Pacific and the Caribbean. The Pentagon is basically saying there's a there's a low return on investment there. Can you explain to the mothers and fathers in Florida the families that are being devastated by the flow of fentanyl and other drugs into this country? Why one resupply ship? Not for the U.S. Navy but to help our partners extend their range and interdict these drugs is is not a good investment of their dollars. Congressman I'd like to take that back and get you a more detailed answer. You don't have an I mean you have a report saying that it wasn't a good investment. We do I understand that we're working to make sure the best use of our resources but I'd like to get you a more specific answer. Thank you I'll look for that for the record and I do find it disturbing you don't have that you don't have that information given your portfolio. Can we just talk a bit more about Haiti? U.S. citizens are trapped in Haiti. We have a member of Congress leading a group down to rescue U.S. citizens from orphanages. We've had multiple members of Congress rescuing U.S. citizens that were trapped in the West Bank and elsewhere in Israel that were trapped and are still trapped in Afghanistan. We have a breakdown here between the State Department and DOD in terms of having assets and resources available to go get Americans. I mean it's just a basic function and at this point I was informed last night that the State Department revoked the clearance for these individuals to land in the Dominican Republic. So can you can you just talk to me more broadly about our not a neo for just the embassy. The embassy personnel get taken care of. I'm worried about Americans that are trapped in this deteriorating situation. General Richardson, Ms. Zimmerman, can you just talk about what we have positioned because we have a mass not only to get Americans but is Guantanamo ready to take on what could be a mass refugee flow onto Florida shores. So we have plans ready Congressman in terms of a noncombatant evacuation a neo plan also a mass migration plan that we would establish but about for U.S. citizens on Gitmo and if we get a request from the State Department in order to do that we have a plan to do that. Thank you. I'll take that up on state. Chairman I recognize this gentleman from California, Mr. Carbhall. Thank you Mr. Chairman and ranking member and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. The political crisis in Haiti Venezuela and other countries in the western hemisphere have put the United States in a difficult situation at the border. I'm eager to hear your plans to overcome some of these challenges as well as plans to influence and sustain advantages with China and Russia to gain foothold in our backyard. Thank you Congressman and so certainly the funding that I received last year to increase my security cooperation initiatives was hugely helpful and the funding that we would receive this year as soon as the defense bills are approved will be extremely important to continue that effort but I would say 15 to 20 years of getting less than 50 percent of the requirement for security cooperation for Southcom and the investment that that brings that it can't be made up in just one or two years so the sustained funding and the predictable funding is very very important and so but it's not it's not just the security cooperation it's the exercises it's our ability of the of the process with foreign military cells excess defense articles as our nations are dealing with very old equipment outdated ground-based radar systems so they can see threats and things like that we've got to continue to work hard and the secretary of defense has led a program to speed that up with the foreign military sales and things like that to deliver capability much much quicker and I appreciate the interagency's work on that and then the work we've done with the whole of government and the interagency to bring together all those instruments of national power that I talked about in my opening statement not just on the military side of the house it's working together the diplomats the information environment the military and the economics because we are we are doing a lot of things we just got to integrate and synchronize a little bit better from team USA and support of team of team democracy thank you general general Richardson as the ranking member of the coast guard and maritime transportation subcommittee I am focused on giad of south this detection and monitoring operations in your aor what support do you need to accomplish your objectives for better drug introduction so the work that giad of south has done with the interagency we have just a huge synergy with giad of south and the law enforcement community and the interagency and so to continue to build that and every year our partner nations abilities to utilize that detection and monitoring both our law enforcement but partner nations too because we want that in terms of them being able to increase the the interdictions as a result of that information and that continues to go up every year it's 76 percent by our partner nations and so we see that they're very effective this the ship special mission was brought up before that a second SSM would be hugely helpful and would definitely raise the bar for giad of south and the ability to work with partner nations and so the funding and the resourcing that's provided for giad of south and that ability for them to only continue us enable those interdictions and disruptions is very helpful thank you general guill congratulations on your new command as china continues its goal to project power outside of its borders what new developments have resulted from china's risky and aggressive intercepts of us aircraft operating internationally that concern in regard to your primary mission to defend the homeland congressman fortunately we haven't seen chinese aircraft operate near our defense or excuse me air defense identification zones yet but i think that that's coming as early as this year that shows a overall concern i have about the growing capability of china not only with the aircraft as you just mentioned but also with ships and even submarines being able to range further from china and closer to to our shores thank you general richardson with the 25 seconds i have left hundreds of thousands of venezuelan migrants have made their way north uh due to years a long economic and humanitarian crisis can use can you speak about how southern command is collaborating with the state department to alleviate this crisis so the work that uh that we do a very strong relationship with department of state with all the ambassadors in the region and then the work that that we've done to work with our partners jenna's times expired chair and i recognize jenna from florida mr gates so what's the difference between hady and a failed state it's telling right we can't really identify because the gangs are in charge the government has been thrown out and as a florida man i'm deeply concerned about this wave of people that we're about to have that we are having coming from hady and it will accelerate because i've gone to opalaka and i've spent time with the folks that are engaged in operation vigilant sentry and they say the number one push factor that drives these Haitians into broward county paul beach county where they don't disperse throughout the country they stay in southeast florida that that driving factor is the deterioration of conditions in Haiti so what are we doing to prepare for that wave and to ensure that these people are not paroled into the united states as the administration has done with people on the southern border but instead are repatriated back at the dock at port of print congressman we're doing a number of things to ensure that we're keeping track of the situation and we're prepared at the moment we have not yet seen large numbers what we would characterize as a as a maritime mass migration but we are alert to that mass migration though we are we are alert to that possibility i think you're right that the the driving conditions in Haiti could very well press more people so we've recently approved some additional assistance that we can provide to the coast guard i i think that that has now fully been approved we'll be providing notifications if we haven't already uh to provide additional shipboard assistance because i've talked to the coast guard and what they say would really support them would be more naval vessels would be do d support and because i think you correctly said that there is an anticipated mass migration here there are specific legal authorities that we can access that i would implore you to access specifically george w bush signed executive order uh 13276 and in that executive order there is the ability for any president to designate an anticipated mass migration and then get gray hull naval vessels into the straits of florida to deter that migration and then to reach patriot those people before they get to florida so general richardson is it your best military advice based on what we just heard from miss zimmerman that we activate the authorities anticipating a mass migration so i think that we need to be postured appropriately uh for that exactly what you're talking about and i have put in a request for increased capability to do exactly that and uh and we are ready if a mass migration if we need to deal with a mass migration we did a full walkthrough of our contingency plan on gitmo last summer with all of the interagency and all of my components when i talk to the coast guard folks they seem to say that we don't have to go drop these folks off at gitmo where they they become a burden on the us taxpayer we can interdict at sea and then repatriate directly at port of prince when you say you're preparing for that does that specifically mean do d assets so for what happens on a daily basis that the coast guard is doing and the repatriation under homeland security authorities back to cap Haitian happens on a daily basis yeah no i got that but what the coast when i go down to opalaka and get eyeball to eyeball with these folks they say congressman we really could use the do d assistance not more money for the coast guard not more meetings conference calls and committees but gray hull vessels in the straits of florida doing the interdictions doing the repatriations so when you say you're you're anticipating that i think the zimmerman laid it out correctly so given the the fact that any anticipated maritime mass migration is specifically contemplated pursuant to 46 usc 70051 can can i leave this discussion believing that it will be your best military advice uh to the administration to utilize do d assets for this purpose general richard if i'm requested to do that i will definitely do that no i want you to make the request not be requested that's what i'm trying to ascertain okay yes congressman yes you you will make that request for do d assets so i will talk with district seven and our coast guard on the on the atlantic side atlantic area and see if they need additional gray ho do d gray holes they have not requested that specifically from south com and so but if there's a need for that i would absolutely request it thank you for that because i i really think getting ahead of this will ensure that the humanitarian conditions um uh will will be far better that we could perhaps deter some of this uh because i mean it's tragic conditions when you talk to these folks and there they say that these Haitians are pouring gasoline on little babies and doing everything they can to deter interdictions um it it sharpens the minds of my fellow Floridians to want to make sure you guys are doing everything possible and i greatly appreciate the exchange today you'll back jimmy yields back she and i recognize general from Connecticut mr corny thank you chairman rogers and thank you to all the witnesses um for your testimony today general gill um again it was a pleasure to meet you and congratulations again on your uh new assignment in your testimony you spoke about you spoke about the ability to detect classify and track potential threats to the homeland from the seafloor to space in the cyber domain is a critical need for us north com and norad and that investments and capabilities such as the integrated undersea surveillance system the i uss will significantly enhance domain awareness to limit competitors ability to approach north america undetected can you speak a little more again i know in your written testimony you mentioned the fact that now um russia is about to deploy another severed events um which again would be um on the west coast they already 2014 they deployed their first severed events which again has been um you know a real challenge for anti-submarine warfare and our allies working together to to um you know keep an eye on that and the i uss um is again another capability um again could you talk again about you know the the homeland's facing something that we really haven't seen since the cold war in terms of the undersea and and would appreciate your thoughts congressman you're you're exactly right the uh the underst ability to detect with undersea sensors is more important today than ever before because of the advances in the sev as you mentioned now a threat to both coasts uh and and the quiet nature with which those submarines can operate mean that they could very easily get much closer to the uh us and then deploy their uh a large arsenal of cruise missiles uh to a point where if that were allowed to happen the first detection we would likely get would be could be the explosions of the uh of the cruise missiles so uh keeping our undersea advantage is imperative and i think the the first step in that is to increase our undersea sensor capability to allow us to detect these threats further away from the us shores than we can today well thank you and as we discussed i mean the the present um situation at least on the atlantic is uh is a team sport with our allies um in the air on the surface and under the surface in terms of trying to track um that that threat i remember um amal roughhead who was the former cno uh one time saying that the the best anti-submarine warfare is another submarine i mean that obviously also has to be kind of um viewed as a priority uh if again we're going to have an effective um system of defense is that correct sir it is absolutely correct and uh we get great partnership uh especially in the atlantic we have a one atlantic uh technique tactic technique and procedure where north com u com and southern command with general richardson all share information and we don't use the strict line that you see on the ucp map as a way to limit our capability we allow forces to flow freely across all those lines wherever it makes sense for that other uh you know for the overall situation even if it goes between combatant commands to ensure that we can detect and then once we get those uh undersea uh submarines track and follow them uh to ensure that they don't become a threat to the united states and with the severed events now on the west coast again that's just another mission um that again we don't quite have the same um team lineup uh in that part of the world so it's uh if anything it's more um uh demand to the navy uh yes congressman you're right and and the fact that the pacific is so much larger and you know we're now facing two threats there with uh with a russian specific threat and then also the uh chinese uh makes the pacific threat a particular concern of mine and and north coms well thank you um you know again your timing in terms of this discussion is um you know very apt since we got a budget yesterday which talks about cutting a virginia class submarine um from the navy shipbuilding plan and uh obviously you know not just in north com but and frankly every command that's going to just again make a uh high demand uh platform uh even more stressed so um you know this is going to be very helpful for us as we move towards uh markup later um this session data yield back thank the gentleman uh before i recognize mr bacon uh one of the mounts we're going to be going up to the classified portion of this hearing in about 15 minutes uh mr bacon you're recognized thank you mr chairman i welcome all three of you here thank you and i've enjoyed work with general richerson in recent years so i appreciate seeing you and john guill and i were fellow commanders of the fight in 55th wing uh the largest wing in air combat command third largest in the air force i think for two decades that knows busy up tempo up tempo that the air force had so congrats on your new position my first question is for john guill uh how does hypersonic weapons affect your warning times because i think it's important for the americans to hear with china having nuclear armed hypersonics russian building them what does it do for our warning times uh thank you congressman uh good to see you and and uh thanks for recognizing the fight in 55th contributions worldwide uh hypersonics are probably the most destabilizing weapon that we face now and uh one of the prime reasons is is what you mentioned the shortened detection time uh and the fact that they don't follow a traditional ballistic track means they're very unpredictable and the area of uncertainty is is huge based on their speed and their maneuverability that's what makes them such a such a challenge to not only detect but to track and eventually defeat is it fair to say we have about a 15 minute warning time i know i'm just trying to give our citizens a sense how this changes intercontinental ballistic missiles gave us about a 35 minute warning time and i'm just trying to how much is this warning time reduced uh yes congressman there are cases where it would be about half and but i would add to that though is the unpredictable nature of their maneuvering even with a icbm if it was 30 minutes very quickly we could figure out just about where exactly that's going into a you know very small circle of error probability however with the hypersonic not only is it faster giving us less time to detect it can fly lower which which gives our sensors problems and then that maneuverability means it uh you know a typical threat warning could be something as vague as western united states as opposed to a particular city and mr chairman this is why i think it's so important that we address this with strach calm and the pentagon and our just our national command authorities i don't think we're positioned right with our nuclear command survivability and ensuring that we always have a survivable element not at a base i think we're making ourselves vulnerable it's one of the things i'm trying to push our dod i know this is not a north comms purview but i think we is in this in the hask here working with senior military leaders we have to come up with a plan that ensures we always have a survivable command element that can be caught flatfooted because i worry about the current our current posture and i think at least is vulnerable and i want the russians chinese to know no matter what they do we can always respond uh so i so i appreciate your aspect of this is very important in this discussion so thank you john ritchison i was talking to the previous ambassador from jamaica and he was telling me that the jamaicans would like to have our coast guard assigned there and they would help with facilities and it's in the perfect position for interdicting drugs coming out of venezuelan colombia can you comment comment on that at all or if you heard any of this dialogue i have not heard that dialogue uh but we work we have a very good close working relationship with jamaica and uh and the chief of defense there who is a coast guard officer well i'm hearing this is indirect not direct from him but via the ambassador that this is an opportunity is from the jamaican's perspective that they'd like to work with us and that that location is would be important you know for the drug routes coming out of colombia venezuelan so i hope you take a look at it i would be grateful for that i'll go back to georgio how's our surveillance radars do they need investment they current congressman they do uh we do have some programs in place most notably the over the horizon radar system uh that would give us uh capability against cruise missiles traditional air tracks as well as the hypersonics that you and i just discussed keeping that uh program on track is the number one priority uh from north com because of that great capability that it would bring how would you prioritize the abm elements that we have in alaska do they need upgrading as well the uh yes all all of the systems that we have that allow uh give us the domain awareness that we need uh are at the top priorities of mine the um there would be one of these over the horizon systems there the l r dr the long range discriminating radar is key uh for us to defeat uh missiles from north korea thank you very much i appreciate all three of you how you all back chair not recognized gentlemen from the bottom mr horseford thank you chairman rogers and to the ranking member uh for holding this important hearing um general richardson it is uh good to see you again um last year i was in trinidad and tobago attending the care com uh heads of government conference uh during that trip and in meetings afterward i've had uh several conversations with regional partners uh discussing how the united states and the caribbean must work together to address challenges in the region today's resignation of prime minister henry of hady as a result of increased gang violence really further highlights the fact that regional security economic growth and addressing the climate crisis as well as energy resiliency are all imperative to the success of the region so general um how do you believe that the united states uh would work with caribbean nations to address these shared issues and to create long lasting partnerships in order to show an alternative to china's influence in the region yes so the uh thank you congressman and the uh the work that we do with the caribbean is extremely important because of uh obviously how close the caribbean is to our our homeland and so the security cooperation the exercises the regional conference uh that i do to bring leaders together uh but not just talk about things actually have deliverable deliverables on getting after those challenges that we identify during the conferences um is is what we have really put emphasis on and so uh with cyber with critical infrastructure and the activities that we do in the exercise program well i'm glad to see that the department is taking these challenges seriously i i look forward to continuing to work with the department and this committee to address the threats uh facing our national security and the immediate risk uh that that faces us uh with the situation in haiti assistant secretary zimmerman i agree with you that the challenge of natural and manmade hazards do not wait for us to resolve other ongoing national security crises we must act now how is the department of defense taken into account climate resiliency in its everyday decision making process congressman thank you so much uh climate resilience has become an important part of uh how we do business not just in terms of looking directly at climate change as as an issue but really in terms of how we integrate across the range of activities that the department does in order to ensure that we have the operational advantage wherever we need it so an example would be in the pacific uh the ronald reagan missile defense test range sits on a site that i think is only six feet above sea level and uh with the challenge of sea level rise we have to make sure that we're taking the steps to enforce that infrastructure so that we can continue to do what we need to do from a security perspective likewise i think another example i would give would be in the arctic where climate change happening at a rate uh three times that that we see in certain other places has opened up new approaches and has made it really an arena for strategic competition so we see the militarization of the arctic by russia china considering itself as a near arctic nation and that creates a lot of dilemmas that i think we have to ensure that we're on top of and then the last i will say is that um when we see extreme weather here in the homeland uh that is something that we need to respond to in support of our uh civil authorities when they ask for it and when we can do so without affecting readiness but that uh that increasing challenge the number of incidents that we are now responding to i think also creates um the possibility that will be stretched more thinly i would add obviously the western hemisphere the devastating storms droughts and flooding which have inflamed conflicts and contributed to instability and mass migration uh so how can the department then assistant secretary zimmerman uh better partner with these vulnerable countries so that existing risks are not exacerbated by these extreme weather events um one of the ways that we're looking to do that is through our security cooperation efforts so uh we have uh recently initiated a program called doric which works with partners right now in uh the western hemisphere in africa uh to try to gear some of our we have i think 10 million dollars uh this year and we'll be renewing that uh which works with our partners to build partner capacity in areas that affect climate change or affected by climate change jim stanzik sir chair and i recognize jim from florida mr himines thank you mr chairman um we could put the entire entire us fleet in the entire assets of the coast guard in the florida straits and it wouldn't matter um if we had the wrong policy so mr zimmerman mr zimmerman do you know what the biden administration policy is towards if we if we face a mass migration from hady what is the uh biden administration policy i think our policy remains as it has been that we will endeavor to conduct repatriation as as soon as practicable as general richardson outlined if the president does declare a caribbean mass migration we have additional tools that the department will be able to leverage in terms of directly responding ourselves so you expect to expect if anybody interdict it uh on the way the united states will be will be returned back to hady to their country of origin uh that is pursuant to to laws and policy okay and you haven't heard otherwise from the biden administration uh i have i have not okay uh switching gears here uh general richardson good to see you i've been down to south america and and i can say that everybody really really appreciates you down in south america and fentanyl who's who is who's producing it who's who is transporting the fentanyl into united states and so what what we see in uh in the south com aor in terms of fentanyl is more of the medical fentanyl that's being stolen out of the hospitals and things like that in terms of the uh precursor chemicals that are coming in we're starting to see a little bit of that i think that that is just the beginning possibly in this region and so um obviously working with our partners as they're discovering this and those sorts of things of where these precursor chemicals are coming and then putting together by the cartels and then funneled into mexico or put together in mexico and i only got five minutes so i have to i have to go center i'm sorry general guillot is that's your name yet general okay so mexico the fentanyl is flowing in from mexico who's who's bill who's who's manufacturing it who's uh who's transporting it congressman as general richardson said we see the uh the precursor elements being brought in from a broad uh many or much from china and then assembled there under the um under the cartels and then distributed from there so if i were to tell you that the fentanyl has killed more americans by far than all the americans we lost in vietnam and afghanistan and iraq uh would that surprise you unfortunately congressman it would not uh i'm aware of that so so the chinese are are shipping the the the precursor chemicals to their allies the multinational criminal organizations based out of mexico and other places they then manufacture it then send it to united states and kills americans is that fair to say yes congressman um and since back in 2001 a group of 19 terrorists came and killed 3 000 americans and then we waged war like 7 000 miles away for 20 years what do you think our response should be to some organizations that are killing tens of thousands of americans every single year sir i think uh north com is is ready to support within the within the policy and as directed at this point to address the threat we're we're providing uh intelligence support to the lead federal agencies that are that are addressing that and working with the mexican agencies and our contribution to that is is intelligence support i think our this government is failing the american people in a very big way failing to protect our our children it's the big it's the largest cause of death of men and women from 18 i think to like 49 in the united states and our duty our collective duty is to protect the citizens of the united states that's the number one duty that we have and we're failing miserably at it not you because you you only follow orders but this administration is failing miserably at protecting united states um my time's just about up so thank you and i yield back thank you gentlemen we will now adjourn this open session and reconvene the classified session in room 22 12 in about five minutes