 Welcome to this podcast and podcast brought to you from the Australian National University's College of Asia and the Pacific in Canberra. My name is Nicholas Farrelly and I'm a researcher here in our college where I study politics in Southeast Asia. It's for that reason that it gives me great pleasure today to welcome Nurul Isar Anwar, a rising star of the Malaysian political scene here to Canberra. Nurul Isar, it's really wonderful that you could take the time to join us today. So first of all, welcome to Canberra. It's really wonderful to have you here today. Absolutely, having me. Cheers. Our pleasure. So I know that there are millions of people out there who know a great deal about your story already, but for those who don't know the details, can you perhaps just give us a quick rundown of how you first became interested in Malaysian politics? Where did it all begin for you? It all began in 1998 during the sacking and eventual arrest of Anwar Ibrahim, who's at the time former Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister of Malaysia after the 1997 economic crisis that engulfed the region. And of course, I was a young student then and Anwar Ibrahim was my father and it was a real political awakening, not just for myself, but for hundreds of thousands of Malaysians, especially young people, as we term the reformasi generation because 1998 was really the start, the spark of a reform movement in Malaysia. And it began from there. He was incarcerated in politically trumped up charges in the year 1999, which has been alluded to by the International Commission of Jurists in their report. And I personally got involved to fight for his rights as a political prisoner, as well as others who were victimized in Malaysia, especially with regards to their civil and political liberties. And I worked alongside with the opposition movement and eventually I was a natural progression to contest in the last general elections. And now I have succeeded in being elected as a member of parliament from the People's Justice Party, which is my party, which came to be in 1999. In Malaysia's 2008 general election, you were elected to parliament. In doing so, you actually defeated a sitting government minister. I'd really like to know, how did that feel? As a culmination of many, many feelings, actually, you know, we, a lot of us, myself, a lot of younger candidates from the People's Justice Party, we joined the elections because we wanted to continue the legacy of multiracialism in Kuala Lumpur, my party. And we wanted to really encourage young people, especially voters, to at least, you know, cast their vote in the elections and just give sort of a message that we'll do this. We're courageous enough to try to do our best to fight for change. So when, during the last three days of the campaign period, it began to dawn upon me that there was a real momentum against the ruling government. And it hit me then, perhaps I might really get through this. So when it actually happened, of course, you know, it was a huge shock and pleasant surprise. And I think what was important is what then, how can you do to ensure that this becomes a lasting change towards the creation of a possible two-party system in Malaysia? Many people watching this interview will immediately appreciate that you are still really very young. What in your view is the role of youth in a political system like Malaysia's? I think, you know, right now we have about 4.1 million as yet unregistered but eligible voters, majority of which are young people. And you can see post-2008, post the last elections, all political parties actually trying to compete with one another to get them registered, to win over the young people. And for us, for the People's Justice Party, we have actually moved to elevate a lot of younger personalities at the forefront and key positions. I also ran for the vice presidency of the party in our last direct elections and I won. And I think it's important to say that youth-related issues, mainstream issues because we are a young nation, Malaysia, and we must continue to be relevant with the aspirations and needs of the young people to continue to be supported by them. And I feel that for me, for my political party, we are a new political party. We were created in 1999, the youngest in, well, among the youngest, there's so many political parties since then. But we have the opportunity to shape the direction, the agenda in the party. And I think that should be something we should work on consistently, especially in trying to project a new Malaysia devoid of racialist or racist rhetoric. Are there any particular challenges for a young woman starting out in politics in Southeast Asia? What advice would you give for those out there who are perhaps hoping to follow in your footsteps? Advice, I sound so condescending. I'm still learning every day. I think, of course, the whole landscape is very much made to fit a man's role. I must say that. But having said that, you've seen so many developments and success by many, many other women leaders. Aung San Suu Kyi, of course, she remains an inspiration to so many in Southeast Asia. And the fact that for our party, Wanaziza is a woman, my mother, she's a president of the party, that helped create a new sense of awareness where you see in public rallies, very rarely, people, hundreds of thousands that you pay attention to a woman speaker. But right now it's the norm. We've even influenced the Islamic party to field a female candidate in the last by-election in the state of Johor. So for me, it's really important to understand women, including Muslim women, we have so much to give. And our role as homemakers only adds on such an important dimension on the understanding and the agenda on how to elevate a particular society. So I take it like, if my involvement can inspire others to join in, I would say, please, please do, because women also are very, very successful in the professional field in Malaysia. We have a female central bank governor. We have a female head of the Securities Commission. So we've made all these inroads, and why not politics? And I feel that at the end of the day, we are the best representatives to bring up the issues affecting women, which are not really, you know, it's not related to women alone. Women, really, the issues are mainstream issues. Your father, Anway Ibrahim, is still a major player in Malaysia's political life. And of course, as many of our viewers and listeners will remember, he was here himself at the ANU not that long ago. Your mother is, we shouldn't forget, a renowned political figure in her own right as well. Do you consider them to be your mentors? Well, certainly, they have left such a lasting impact on me. I grew up with this larger than life vision of my father, who was the Deputy Prime Minister, Finance Minister. But I feel that when I got involved in politics, it is a vocation that you would have to own yourself. I mean, I think it was a decision I made because I believed in the struggles that we were fighting for. And it's not because of any particular individual. So that journey, you know, trying from being Anwa's daughter, Azizah's daughter, to really just being a politician in your own right, making your own mistakes, you know, based on your own judgments and learning from them is also equally important, if not more so. So for me right now, the challenge is how do we survive and how do we make sure that the ideals brought about or brought by my parents will live on not just in me, but a whole generation of leaders? You see, because we want to further democratise the country. So it is important to cultivate a whole set of generational leaders with progressive ideas, with ideas to continue this democratic path. I appreciate that this is a slightly personal question. But I'd really like to know what's it like in your family? Say, when you're all sitting around the dinner table, do you discuss anything except for politics? Well, I think we've gotten to a stage where we try to be as professional as possible. I think I did a dinner table to keep our sanity. We must talk about personal things and about family, about I have two children. So my grandfather, my father dotes on them. And we try to really reduce talking about either his court case, the second political persecution he's facing, or even party politics, because again, we're very busy individuals and we meet each other during the political bureau meetings of the party, as well as the opposition coalition meetings. So I think it's always important to have a balance, you know, and at the end of the day, I think he would enjoy me as his daughter at home on the dinner table rather than, and of course, you know, having to put up with certain arguments with me in the political scene. So, yeah. Now changing the tone somewhat, what are your greatest fears for the future of Malaysia? I think right now we've really facing a challenging terrain ahead of us, the opposition, I mean. Of course, one is presented through the case that they have fielded against my father, which, you know, smacks of political conspiracy similar to the first sodomy case in 1998. And related to that is, of course, the continuing efforts to circumvent the opposition's work in communicating with the public. You know, we do have various legislation, the Sedition Act, the International Security Act is continuously used to curb the space, the freedom of speech by many opposition leaders as well as other non-governmental leaders. So I view the current administration of Najib Tunadzah as, you know, going back somewhat to the Mahadirist years, a little bit more hard-liner, but very well-masked in a very effective and sophisticated communication messaging. So certainly it's not going to be easy for us. We have lost somewhat some momentum to the opposition post-2008 and we have to regain the momentum and remind the Malaysian people that the opposition is the only coalition that is committed to implementing political reform. And we have prepared a series of legislation to this effect, including our promises in an orange book-themed manifesto. So for me, it's a castle of time. If we manage to meet and communicate these ideals and our promises and our credibility is sort of extended to the electorate, then we have a better chance at winning. But at the end of the day, we must make sure we have sufficient observers in the next election because I fear it will be riddled with a lot of fraud and fraudulent practices. So that, of course, you know, it's important how the election is conducted. One is campaigning, but one is also making sure that there's no fraud taking place. Recently, when Malaysian political activist Raja Petra Kamaruddin was here at the ANU, I had the opportunity to ask him about how he'd like to be remembered. I think his answer was somewhat eye-opening. So to finish, I should really ask you the same question. Nurul is, when all is said and done, how would you like to be best remembered? I think I'm lucky if people remember me at all. I mean, you know, you have to put things in perspective. You know, what you do is not for... You shouldn't personalise the struggle. You're only a player in the bigger picture and bigger scheme of things. That's one. But I'm actually, right now, with my colleagues in Pak-at-an-Rakyat, the opposition coalition, we've submitted a bill to be discussed in parliament, which is entitled the Emergency Revocation Bill. Now, Egypt has had its 30-year emergency declaration revoked after Mubarak's fall. Malaysia still has an emergency declaration after 47 years. So I feel this is the best time that we could very well offer this alternative, a bipartisan possible cooperation with the government to revoke our emergency declaration and return and ensure the laws that are implemented in the country are in line with the spirit of the constitution. So if I can do that, and perhaps my name can be attached to the effort, then it's something that I look forward to. But again, you know, like I said, it's not a person, it's not about the individual, it's about the collective effort. Thank you once again for taking the time to talk to us today. Thank you.