 The main idea of this is, as you will see in the slides, I'm not like all your developers over here ever having these very clean code with all the commands you need. Easy to read, easy to do. My slides are kind of fucked up. Mainly because my arrival was, the last slide was edited about 20 minutes ago. So excuse me, typos and something like that. And the idea of this is I consider myself never a hacker. As for example, I don't know how to click through that. Yes, exactly because of this, I'm neither a hardware or software engineer. I nearly, I do things my relatives would consider coding. I wouldn't dare to say it here. It's stealing shell scripts and something like that. What I do was introduced by our stage manager's name or Harold, by the kind Harold, while I was freckling around with my notebook. Oh no, my daughters, by the way. Mine has no proper output for the display. By the way, the second sentence of the describing of my daughter after the IT synchronous, but the relevant thing is, and then she starts with the funny things. I loved that because I couldn't have done it upfront because everything was messed up. I also built recumbent, that's in Germany, it's Ligereder. I did stuff, I rebuilt my house and things. So, but actually hardware. First thing is, how do you find interesting projects? I recommend to say, oh, that might interest me. If you're not interested in it, it kind of wouldn't work out, I guess. So, of course, the easiest way to make open hardware in some kind happened as crowdfunding. This, I don't know who knows about this device. It's a project on Hackaday. It's a little Arduino device. It has an OLED screen, if I remember correctly, and a touch field and it's an offline password keeper. Most of you, as I see, are very young and can remember all the passwords and usernames. I'm too old for that. This device is nice because it acts like a normal keyboard. It has USB output for that. It's an Arduino-based smart card reader. Oh, let's go in a minute. So, it's kind of, I still don't know what it is. I say it's free factors because you need the device. All your credits are stored and encrypted in it. This is shit. I always have to read up and have a slight idea of what that means. And you need a smart card and a pin for your smart card. So, from my counting is three. Other people only call it two because of the smart card and the pin. I always get confused with that. Nevermind, I said, that's fine because I hang around on so many inputs. Sometimes I stumble up and say, was I locked in here? Do I have an account? I don't know. And maybe this will help in the future. For people who are interested in that, that's what sort of smart card it is. No idea what that means. Developed at Helge Day. And the founding was done through Indiegogo. Yes, that might be the first typo in the slides. So, they did it kind of in the right way, I think, because they started where already hackers are gathered. I guess Hackaday, who knows the site Hackaday? Yeah, I guess that much. I kind of get on cold turkey if I don't read it two or three days. So there was kind of existing community, lots of input contribution from the community, saying, oh, this would be nice, or that, with size and all these. They had working prototypes, which I really recommend to look out. Kickstarter often hasn't, and often fails with projects. They don't, there aren't prototypes. Even though the funding kind of gets close to failing. And then you come to a point, if I ever would do a campaign, I would think about nice perks to do. Something like, oh, I really want this, but I don't want to buy two devices for 150 euros. Maybe there's a little perk I can add to, so if several people do so, it will happen. And they actually have that. They allow you to design your own smart cards. What you see here is actually a part of a colleague of mine. And some weird fonts I found. The upper one is something Bernard Shaw invented, and the other one is Shadow from Babylon Five, some mice know. It nearly failed anyway. It was a lot discussed, oh, do custom perks. But they choose wisely, because the Indiegogo is allowed to expand the deadline. So if you aren't sure about that, you may think about maybe I want something with a deadline that's allowed to expand for reasons, or maybe there is something where you don't have to reach a goal and communicate what happened. Yeah, there it is, the fucked up slide. Okay, next thing, Crown Fun, I did that with a multi-path, and I did it with a Nuvena. I guess I didn't have to explain that much about the Nuvena project. And I think Bonnie's Block is known by enough nerds. I kind of stumbled in different ways about it. Sometimes I look, oh, what open hardware is there? And then I found it very early as he was driving us as a hobby project. And I think I stumbled across, I told a friend about another project, and that was on 30C3, and I said, oh, maybe you have a, give Bonnie's project a look. He makes a little gathering, and he had these prototypes here. There was only two Zops and Bonnie's, and they showed it around and asked people. And that's very important, because if you want to do, you finally want to do something people actually want to have. And that will only happen if you talk to them. Otherwise, you have to do these weird stuff companies do, ah, we are guessing and we are doing marketing. And afterwards, if they fail, we just convince the people they want to have it anyway. So I think it's better to do it the other way around. So crowdfunding started. We have here Motherboard Only was one thing, then the desktop thingy, which you just carry on, have to plug in. Then there was a laptop version where you had a battery, a little daughter board with those all the charging and recharging stuff of the battery, taking balance of the gas goke and so on. And I really like to have one of those, but $5,000 was a bit over my budget. I actually saw when Bonnie has with him, it's really beauty things. So, does anybody see the missing link? Imagine you want to build a notebook of your own. You have the main board, but you missed the battery management board. So you can't have it. And I was kind of one of those guys and said, yeah, okay, I come back to this battery board, we'll hear about it later on. So meanwhile I said, okay, then I buy the board, that's affordable, and I have the board, and then I look, maybe it's open hardware, let's look how it works out. So, that's really easy. You contribute to the crowdfunding, the crowdfunding ends, the things get produced, packed and sent. That's very easy, until you stumble across these guys. It's customs for those English speaking people. So that's kind of the multipath, and my multipath, spend it five weeks in Frankfurt, for reasons I really can't understand. So I still think I might ask around in the form, how can I figure out if nobody could put weird stuff in it to spy on me? So I'm kind of, not comfortable with that. And I said, yeah, that would be fun when the Nurena arrives. And suddenly I said, oh, I called him and said, yeah, I founded it about half a year ago, I have no idea which way I paid it. Yeah, never mind, was it, oh, that was crowdfunding. Oh, it was Kickstarter. No, they're not, it's about the other platform, it's crowd-supply in that game. Yeah, yeah, just send us the screenshots, describe what you might, and work down a center. Okay, on the one hand, five weeks, on the other, yeah, yeah, no problem, we know about crowdfunding. These guys are normally kind of behind. So crowdfunding, I don't know. So I was really proud of it, so conclusion is, they're completely unpredictable. My daughter has a girlfriend, and she came up with a sentence that might best fit these guys. Kill them with kindness. I confess, I fail half of the time, but they seem to have a training how to make people really angry with three sentences. I try to get, so any time you get something across the borders, you need to figure out how it works this time. Oh, another five times for this. So the idea says, use the right platform, look which one works for you, your project, communicate as much as you can before, in forums, in on CCC events, whatever, so that you find out what the people like and want to have everywhere. As said, the Nurena project came from two directions, one I didn't even expect that it would come back that way. If the community really exists before, it's a lot more helpful, we'll come to that later. Sometimes it's essential. Oh, that was too fast, nevermind. So that was the crowdfunding part. This is kind of the beginner's part. And the next part is kind of learn from others. I guess some of the people having a Pandora and waiting for the Pyrite in the audience now, from some I actually know. This is not something I really did, but this is a nice project to look and learn things, how things fail, how you correct them, and we're going through that right now. The storyline of this is, they started from little gaming handhelds. That was Nintendo all the way. I really hadn't contacted this era with anything. And then there were devices like the one on the right side and then the hacking started because you had a point where you can link in. These are smart media cards. Half of you wouldn't know about it, I think, without looking it up in Wikipedia. It's now SD cards. And then there was a gaming console that had an embedded Linux kind of, it was an accident from the producer. They just took it and don't really know about it. There was a lot of hacking with these devices, which I didn't know about before I found the Pandora project. There were several deviates of it and there was a big community about that. And the next device about open hardware is, just think about, oh, can we build something really big? And that's what the guys of the community from the handhelds did. They simply said it was original and April's food joke to say, oh, what was the perfect gaming console look like? And then they started, oh, I want keyboard and I want that and that and that. And they just, and then I was like, yeah, well, why not? So they sorted out what might be realistic, what is useful, what's really doable. And they actually found 3,000 people spending 300 euros, completely aware that it would take several, lot of months, maybe several years. It took in the end much longer than they expected. And that was the idea, what it should look like. It's a kind of be ahead and I didn't find a better picture. So the idea was making an ARM mini computer using Linux. It's in some ARM CPU, I forgot I have to look it up again. It's not water. And the hardware finally was freed in 2015. The project started in 2008. No, the hardware was freed. The devices were produced earlier. There was, it had lots of beautiful things like a little PDF that was a hardware hacking guide where you can look, oh, we can solder LED here and put it to this GPIO and make funny stuff with it and something like that. It has two full-sized SD ports, two USB ports, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, touchscreen, resistive, which I like a lot more than the other one. Because your screen stays clear, a clean, it was, so they started already with an existing community so it was a complete community project. And as it added the things missing on the other consoles, you had to have a full keyboard to operate on so you can use it for work as good as for gaming. So that was the easy, oh, it kind of reminded me that this slide is work in progress, I guess it's now done. So there were several problems. The first one, crazy as it sounds, they first thought of, oh, how expensive should it be? And then they try to reach a goal. That's a really bad idea. Then they still have that completely figured out in my head. They kind of split the responsibility. They had Evil Dragon, one who was very active in the GP2X forums, had an own shop for these consoles and something like that and he was attached to take care of the community and they had another person in Project Lead. So whenever something happens, he kind of was only the guy communicating to the community. Then very, very bad trick is if you have one guy designing the case and the producer on a different continent, I think in this case it was the designer was a US American and they tried to produce it at low cost in China. These things, I think they only can fail because whenever you have a problem, the designer says, oh yeah, yeah, the producer guy's doing it wrong, the producer says, oh no, no, no, we know about producing, you did something wrong in the design. And then you have half a day time lag in between. You have probably one or three languages in between. So if you have somebody you personally know in China in the producing company, that might work. But this setup didn't. So the cases kind of had a problem all the time. Then he dropped this, oh, that's a cool job. I cancel my day job and try to earn the money with that. Also a bad idea. And because of that, because he kind of was, oh, this must work. He kind of started to not tell people about the problems. He kind of was anxious that he loses trust from the community. The thing is, quite the opposite happens. Oh yeah, and if that's not enough. Of course, if it started that way, it goes only down from there and he even tried to hide that and said, oh yeah, we have problems in delivery if you pay about, not 240, but 440, you will be privileged and get one of the first devices. And finally, that came to the total stop and the mentioned Evil Dragon took over the project, lead two and said, so now sort these things out. And first thing he did is, okay, what went, the what? Yeah, that came to the, yeah, that's what I mean. Repeat the first three places. Oh, sorry, the funds was frozen. Yeah, yeah, so it was really as many as could go wrong did go wrong. And so Evil Dragon started to say, okay, I was bound to this point and now I'm taking project lead and he starts, that went wrong, that went wrong, that went wrong. And I have several ideas how to get this done. First thing was he took the production to Germany, which is of course, more expensive to produce it here, but he says it's about 20 minutes bicycle ride to the facility where they're producing the PCB boards. So whenever a problem happens, he's there on the instant. And he communicates everything. Whenever there is something, I have kind of the idea and he can't be sleeping anyway. And whenever he comes to a problem, five minutes later it's a post in the forum. And that builds trust because they say, okay, of course there are problems, but if we know about it, we might even have. And that happens a lot. Nearly the whole software. And for the new project, there wouldn't have been a keyboard, if not a hint from the forum members. He took in investors to get rid of the prayer so he got more time basically. He said, okay, we have that and they rely on him and he even thought, so now the guy said, kind of hang in there by the others because they had two selling points. His kind of work and the other funds were thrown. So I think in 2010, the project or 2011, finally the first devices came out. So two or three years after the first starting point. And there are still guys hanging kind of in the air because they still didn't get their devices they gave money for in 2008. And Evil Dragon is kind of a person who even holds them. They say, okay, if you're doing it, we are patient and wait even longer. So community is a central. Even better when it exists. One point, for example, is that's kind of something the developers will most likely understand best. There's an open source driver for one of the GLS chips that was originally invented for the Pandora and was then taken over in the Armharff Debian tree. If I remember correctly, I'm not that deep into it. Direct consumer input is good. Things can go wrong anyway as I showed. Of course it was developed partially by the future consumers. So you have no steps in between these development. And what they did, they made it very easy to contribute. They made a known kind of packages team for the Pandora. So it was very easy to convert all retro gaming or retro games and had a system where everybody just could copy it on the SD card plugged it in in the Pandora and could play. And the last step just, it was on Christmas. He merged all the forums, the GP2X, the Pandora, and the new Pyva4 so that they are all in one place. So that you have to follow the history at one place to look at. The software development is done, I say 90% by the community. Here are a few shots of what there is. That's just the most downloaded apps that are there. Just to hint you what happens there. There are a few screenshots of nearly 1,000 games, development, 60 office utilities, all you want to play around with an open hardware Linux device, you can imagine. So then you come to a point where it's kind of start difficult to produce things because certain chipsets aren't produced anymore. And at that point he said, yeah, well, we can't produce them anymore. We have about 200 left we can produce. How would a successor look like? And they started discussion, he said, oh, when keep the good things and fix the bad ones, you have to endure a lot of communications. There are about 30 threats about the keyboard layout. The problem with that is you can only afford one keyboard layout in these small amounts of devices. And then you have the problem you have German, English, French guys all contributing a lot so you should listen to them to lose them. I kind of lose interest and said, oh, there will be a mapping somehow and I, then I'm forced to learn typing blind, which I want to do for about 20 years now and didn't manage to so far. Maybe the device is forcing me to. They then said, well, the next problem was the case design. And he simply said, I let it design by company. So it's kind of hard to blame someone else. Oh, the company did that. Yeah, that's the one you work for. The machines are right to your next door. You should get it done. And that works perfectly and it's now in Greece. And he said, that's fine because if there's a problem, if I have to go there, I can simply fly there by plane. That's from Germany to Greece. It's kind of more easy than to go to China. And they speak English and German so the communication is a lot better over there. The PCB design was done by Nicholas Schaller. Lots of you will know, he's the one who made the last upgrade of the OpenMoco phone. He has his own company developing embedded Linux devices. And so they took him in to make the PCB design for the new one. They even live kinda near and Nicholas is living near to the producing company of the PCB boards. If there's any problem, he just goes over there and fixes it. And from what he learned before, he said, well, with my other job and the selling of the gaming devices and so on, I think I have enough money to finance until the prototypes. So he said, I will never, I will take money from you when I've working prototypes, not before. That's the idea. Working prototypes that can calculate what prices it might be in the end and wouldn't fail on that point. The next step is the hardware is now upgradable. You have a main board and you have a daughter board where the SOC sits on and the memory. So the machine will be upgradable. It might even be able to change platform so you can simply buy a hardware switch or go from ARM to AMD or something like that. But that's future talk. First is you have an extra daughter board and they have a third PCB for the display. So if the display has a problem, you don't have to change something on the main board. You have the same communication channel. OS will be Damian ARM instead of Angsturm because the NAND storage was kind of too small and it's now an EMMC chip. I have to hurry a bit right now, I see. So the main things, at least from my view, it's OMAP 5432. The interesting part is there will be a 3G, 4G, UMTS chip on it. But now we're having open hardware and this chip is closed. Lots of discussions again. And the solution is this chip is switched off by completely cutting the power on a GPIO pin of the main processor. So it is off because it has no power. I don't know of any other device having that. And if you're more paranoid, you can get it without. There's a mentioned 8GB EMMC chip. And now the operating system will run. Sound is nice, that says nothing to me, might be to you. But the interesting part is you have a volume wheel. It's a resistor, a changeable, and you have a hardware where you can turn power. I love that. The keyboard will get better, it has three rows. Now it will be backlit. And four lateral buttons, we will see that very soon. 6,000 milliampere lithium polymer. It's good for 10 hours gaming, as it's not now guessed. That's what the backside will look like. And there you see the three lateral buttons. That means if you're typing on the keyboard, you have all your modifiers key on your fingertips tool. So you can do the modifier text with two of your fingers and the keyboard with the thumbs, that's very cool. It will have an E-Sata port with an adapter to one of the USB ports. It's for space reasons. Additional to the operating system card, you have again two full-sized SD card slots. And it's all designed to be on the backwards. So you can later on plug it in an cradle and use it as a full desktop with keyboard and monitor because it's that HDMI too. That's a step in between. On the right, you see the old Pandora. On the left, you see the Pyra. It has now a bigger screen with the configuration you see over there. There's something about these screens are produced for smart phones and something and they have to be portrayed. And there's something weird technique to make them landscape. I don't understand. So if anybody knows about this screen with a landscape, might be Bunny is over here somewhere and he's in Chen-Zen next time and finds a display for us. And there we have it. That's a live view of the production, I'd say. That's a few weeks ago. The PCBs on the left are directly the first one ever soldered in the oven. And he is simply the second photo is the one from the daughter board with the CPU. The first one, yeah, they come out here and they failed. Then, and he said how they corrected. The other one is the backlit keyboard they tested online and the others are pictures from milling the molds for the Pyra or nearly online. He was there and posted directly from the facility. Great. There was this story. It took about three posts after, oh, should we do a successor? The first one came up and shut up and take my money. And that started from day one. And every time he said, oh, we solved that. Shut up and take my money. He said, no, I said no pre-orders. And no fixed release day. We release when we liked that again. And quite a while ago he said, okay, for you guys always crying around, shut up and take my money. I give you 200 pre-orders numbered with the extra PCB signed and eight of the prototypes the developers don't need. They will be 1,400 euros. The pre-order is 290 and the difference is when you get it. And he said, he thought he might sell 40 or 50. Three days and everything was gone. That's what trust does. So because I'm a bit in the high, you remember the missing link. So I thought, yeah, they did something. I think I learned something. I did crowdfunding. So first thanks for Bunny to making the flower with a battery board. And that makes me encourage myself and said, well, let's open hardware. So planner, I just need to find the info that produces and go on easy. First thing is it might be polite to ask, are you planning to produce them? Otherwise I produce them, maybe they might be pissed. So I asked him and he said, yeah, go on. Nice, cool. That's what open hardware is about. So I get the info and first I asked for the bear PCB. So say, oh, we populated ourselves by hand or something like that. I have a very cool shortcut here. My wife is working at the company doing PCBs. So I said, hey, you're working there for 25 years. Did you ever get some, did you ever take a fortune of that and said, go to your show and ask what is the record that very cheap. And she's actually at the point where you collect the data and check if they are producible, if there are any errors. That was not an error. There was a slight thing to improve. I forgot what it was. I have to ask her and maybe pass it on to Barney. Then you ask. I said, oh, I asked. It's, there's something of, you have a standard measurement you put through the machines and you normally say, oh, you have the standard measurements. How many boards fit in it? And then you have a price for a whole lot to produce. And I simply asked in the community, I would say interest for that. And there was enough interest and I said, so it's easy, make it, get it, send it, done. Yeah, produce it. This is the picture of the nice board. But then it's coming, it might be wise to buy these parts in a lot, isn't it? Because it's cheaper then. Hey, yeah, okay. Let's look at it. So it's, okay, you produce PCB, you order parts in a lot, put them together and send it anyway. So then we're done, right? Yeah, there are lots of inexpensive parts and they're very small. What about to ask, how much is it to populate it anyway? Okay, you get the info, yours prizes. You order together and then you're done, right? Yes, nearly. Because if you do something like that, if you populate the board, you do it like it's on the left side. There's small pieces as told from the Pandora film. You see something that looks like it's broken off after producing. And that is how they adjust the boards. There are the signs, the board is here and then the machine can know where the actual component is to be placed. But that was already missing. Okay, some of the company said, yeah, no problem, we can't do it anyway. It's a bit more complicated. With every of this information, you communicate to the producer and you go back to the community. Well, I heard that and that and that and it might be a bit more expensive. Yeah, yeah, go on. So then you go on, you send them the bonds, build material. And the next pain you get from that is easy to describe it by two words. That's annoying. Okay, you go through it. I asked, yeah, everything is in metric. The interesting part, I found a comparison sheet. So the first point people normally stumble upon is this one. Said, oh, might that be a typo because the very small one is in, we can't do, no, no, no, it's metric. It's okay. Not that we have the problem, not in another point or another. So, yeah, you go through it again and then say, oh, it's a metric. Oh, four or two. Oh, no, sorry, then we can't do it. And I was back to the firm and said, oh, no. We had everything together and now they say they mixed up the imperium, it's a metric. So they can't do it. So we won't get it. And the interesting part is if you communicated what I learned from the Pandora guys was, yeah, no problem. Then it's bare PCBs and we populate them themselves. And that was kind of something I said, oh, that's so cool and so refreshing. Okay, I go on and ask and search for the next populators. For slightly higher prices, they say, yeah, we can do it. We need to, they use other points to fix the board then. Then use your testing spots on the board and things like that, so they can do it. And then you're done. Same procedure, yes, then you're done. And one day, these things actually arrived populated at my home with other two pictures from them. I did that very close before the 31C3. I went to Bunny and that's one of the interesting points. So I imagine I want a Samsung phone. I found the schematics. I said, oh, I want to build it myself. Yeah, yeah, go on. And when I have done it, I go to the chief developer on something. Oh, can you flash me the phone there? Yeah, well, of course. That's kind of what happened here. I like this one much better, expect the other won't happen. So sending it then, it's a bit tedious work. You have to pack 30 parcels, look just a bit of custom stuff, but it's easy. You would finally have to find a number. To kill them with kindness work. I said, oh, if something like this, can you give me some number? I have to write on the customs declaration. It said, yeah, no problem. That worked kinda. But then I looked at my bank account. It's German there. At AVM Meldeflicht beachten Bundesbank. There's something of, beware of the obligation of AWV. It's Außenwirtschaft, it's something foreign transfers and first thing you see. What the fuck? With this hotline? One, two, three, four, one, one, one. My spam alert triggered by that. And by the way, then I go to the bank teller clerks, whatever they want to say, I have something weird here on my, can you explain it to me? Yeah, yeah, well, that's what the guy who's sending the money is like. So I don't think so. He's Belgian. I don't think he's telling me something of the German Federal Bank. Oh yeah. Oh, wait, I ask a colleague. Colleague is coming. I have some weird stuff here. Yeah, yeah, that's the stuff the guy who's sending the money is. No, he's Belgian. I don't think he's writing me something in German. But oh, well, let's ask a colleague. But the third one was one. Yeah, we are writing that down. There is the obligation. You have to, if you get a certain amount of money from foreign countries, you have to report it. Do you think it's something about washing drug money or something there, then? Yeah, most likely. Nine euros. That was a guy with a blank PCB. There was one who wanted to bear a PCB anyway because he bought the components already. So it would have been very easy to find that information. I think the bank guys took about 10 minutes to google the link to find it. Easy, you go to Bundesbank, Federal Bank. There's a point of service. There's a reporting system, male division, that's even not a light word for Germans. Then there's external sector. Then you have FAQ and notices. And then you have cross-border payment reports. And there you find who's subject to reporting requirements and what information has to be provided. And then there it is. If you have a amount of 12,500 euros, then you have to report that you get the money and what for? Yeah, nice, that's only 1,388 transfers of nine euro. Yeah, okay, to be fair, it's only 80 for the battery board prices. But that's kind of... What? So, cool, we are finally done. Until you find a guy in the phone and said, well, I got your battery bought, but it kind of has a weird problem. Okay, I transferred with him. Zops was looking into it, reading logs and things. And this was kind of, no idea. So, next nice point, I planned a meeting with Bunny again, who designed the plan to say, well, we have this weird problem. What do you mind if we look it up, if I get some tools over there? And there's guy in the nearby Hecker space, Jochen, he's kind of the quiet guy. But if you ask him, I know you have some experience with a microscope and a soldering iron with a fine tip. Yeah, yeah. And he comes with about this aluminum box of tools. Then there was eight dot and another guy who bought a new Vina, who was bringing his new Vina and his battery. And we fixed that yesterday. Was a lot of fun to do. And it was important that everybody else was there. Maybe I was the most sparrowed part there. Bunny was there looking the schematics, eight dot provided, so we can bridge it with C report to find it. And we find the error. It was a resistor. If I remember correctly, measuring the voltage, and it was labeled wrong. It came from the rail and was one magnitude off. We resoldered it and had to fix it. Do that with a broken Samsung phone with a head of development over there. So now we are done. Yeah. Until somebody asked, oh, are there still boards left? No, but if there's interest, and that was the week ago, there were 15 guys growing up again, so I might do the next one too. It means probably it's never done, but it's fun. So what do you get back? The people thank you everywhere, even if you say, oh, I failed. They can't produce it. Yeah, never mind. Thank you for your work and gives a bad PCB. Interesting payment behavior. I said, it's 160 for the board, and I suddenly had something to it. I said, well, that's to it. Yeah, yeah. If something went wrong, so that you are not spending your money on it. And something like Bunny said, oh, well, thanks that you produce what I designed. I love it. You have a lot of fun. You get unique devices as you see with the Pandora and the Nuvina. So some conclusions, mine personally, is communicate. Have patience in the discussions. In the end, something good will come out. Talk a lot. Start as a hobby, of course, to not be in a kind of forced situation. Start copying someone like I did with the board. But calculate the spare. The working battery board was mine. I finally gave to the other guy with a broken one, and now I have one back again. It's a fixed one. Release when ready, and never hide problems. Worked out for me and others. So I had to think a bit philosophical. So was it worth all it? I think so. It was fun. So what to do for me? I think doing these old stuff and doing that might even start me with not a lot of knowledge to start our own project. Little one. Start little ones. Planning to do a little board that can put the old sync pad keyboards to convert that you can plug it in on USB and use it as a Vino or something like that. So was it hacking? Yeah, well, I didn't design a board. I didn't write a single line of codes. I know people who say that wasn't hacking. Yeah, well, I kind of sometimes think it's like a carpenter saying, you're a plumber, then you're not a craftsman because you're using other tools. I think for my point of view is to bribe them. If I teach, for example, if I teach somebody a craft, whatever, gold smithing, black smithing, whatever, I open a gated community. These were the communities where when you finished your education, you were forced to swear to tell nobody, so I opened that a bit, I guess. I see hacking as a state of mind. Change something, do something yourself. So finally, I come to the thanks to let it there. Of course, my children, they teach me some lectures of the Impress, which I didn't know, who didn't do it. Read the text my daughter wrote about. I couldn't have come near to it, not 5%. The multi-pass developers, of course, or the Pandora guys mentioned some of the four notars, linux, boss, and just read it through because we are kind of on tight schedule here. Oh, that was wrong. Yeah, 10 minutes, so we have, I tried to get the thanks slide back, so we have that in the background. Yeah, thanks for the talk and thanks for sharing all your experience points you gained on your mission on the way to these devices. If there are any questions, please go to the microphones on the left and the right and are there any questions from the internet? At the moment, there are no questions from the internet. Okay, then. So, either it was too confusing or too good? You have explained everything, so, oh shit, no questions. So, why did I hurry when there are no questions? What's next? Yeah, I guess, I'm first going for the, I guess there might be some more guys growing up now for the next Nuvina Xenocobots. If there's enough demand, I think I can do that easily and there are no obstacles like you have seen. And I kind of like the idea to first step, the old palm foldable keyboards. The mentioned little converting boards should be for work for the foldable keyboards to make them a USB device and for the ThinkPad keyboards to convert them. Yeah, there is a question on the left microphone. Did you have any problems with the EU recycling legislation? Not yet. But now the question is on the internet. Thank you for that. I think there was a talk at one of the second conferences about that. If you want to look it up, it's on media. Oh yeah, thanks. There is a question, can you share best practices to set a price? Producing in Germany might be much easier but might cost so much that no one will buy it. It's for the Pandora project, it's not true, actually. And the target price for the prior is 600 euros and the people growing up as you have seen. Three days, throwing money around. So I think that's important, that the communication beforehand was that they say, this device is so cool and is that what I wanted? So people simply say, it's worth the money. And they know whenever you come back, people like Evil Dragon and like Bunny are always determined to fix things because they like that. We had two hours of fun finding the arrow. Imagine the possibility on a rail of resistors. We had 30 boards and we picked one fold to resistor from that rail that was 10 times off. And we had fun. So then thanks a lot at the end and give a big shout to Mr. McLean.