 Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to this IIE webinar this afternoon. My name is Mary C. Murphy and I'm a senior lecturer in politics at University College Cork. On behalf of the Irish Institute for International and European Affairs, I'm delighted to welcome you to today's webinar. This webinar forms part of the IIEA's Global Europe project, which is supported by Ireland's Department of Foreign Affairs. And for that reason, it's open to the public and free to attend. And we're delighted to be joined today by Christine Schreiner-Bergener, who is the United Nations Special Envoy on Myanmar. And the Special Envoy has been very generous in taking time out of her very busy schedule to speak to us today. The Special Envoy will speak for about 20 minutes or so, then that will be followed by a short, moderated discussion before we go to a Q&A session with our audience. Now you can join the discussion using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should be able to see at the bottom of your screen. And please feel free to send those questions in throughout the session as they occur to you. And we will come to them once the Special Envoy has finished her presentation. A reminder too that today's presentation and Q&A are both on the record. Please feel free also to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle at IIEA. And we're also live streaming this morning's discussion or this afternoon's discussion. So a very warm welcome to all of you who are tuning in via YouTube. Today's webinar focuses on the current turmoil in Myanmar. The coup earlier this year has reversed the progress of the democratization process there. And as we speak, conflict on the ground is escalating. The economic situation is deteriorating. And the near collapse of the medical system has completely undermined any ability to effectively confront the COVID-19 public health emergency. Today Myanmar is facing the very real prospect of a looming and large scale humanitarian and human rights disaster. So today is a very valuable opportunity for us to hear from UN Special Envoy Schreiner-Bergner about the situation in Myanmar and how Ireland and the international community might help to avert political, economic, public health and humanitarian crises. Miss Christine Schreiner-Bergner was appointed Special Envoy of the UN Secretary General on Myanmar in April 2018. She has over 25 years of experience in diplomacy, having served in various high level government positions in the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs. Miss Bergner was the ambassador of Switzerland to the Federal Republic of Germany from 2015 to 2018. And before that from 2009 to 2015, she served as ambassador to the Kingdom of Thailand and led efforts to mediate between the two sides in the violence that erupted in Thailand in 2010. The Special Envoy also has a connection to Ireland. She served as deputy ambassador to Ireland from 1997 to 2002. So it's a great pleasure to invite the Special Envoy Christine Schreiner-Bergner to address today's webinar. Thank you very much. Thank you for the invitation. It's a great pleasure to be in Ireland virtually again. And I hope to get in only around 20 minutes to the audience about the complexity and the challenges of Myanmar. And I would like to show you some slides and most of the pictures I took myself in Myanmar. So I started in 2018. It was based on, maybe before, yeah, it was based on the GA resolution in 2017 and the Secretary General Antonio Guterres appointed me as the Special Envoy on Myanmar. Clearly, it's a very challenging mandate because it has a whole range of issues which the mandate has as the TORs. It includes the peace process all over the country. It includes Rakhine to make the conditions conducive, to bring the refugees back from Bangladesh, the democratization in all over the country, good governments, human rights promotion, human rights protection, helping or supporting combatting corruption, accountability, but also the election 2020 was part of my mandate. Next, Myanmar is clearly geopolitically very important and many countries like China, India, but also Thailand are very much worried about the ongoing conflict in Myanmar. And that's the reason I had also to travel a lot to meet those governments who are interested in. It's the country faces clearly a lot of difficulties based also on the history. They were only 1948, they had independence, but 1962 the military coup which led the country to more than 70 years of isolation, which is still the root causes of the many other problems like poverty in the country, but also the lack of real democratization in the country. Next, this isolation clearly led also to a lot of poverty of the people. About 55% of the population lives under the poverty line. Now with the military coup and the ongoing conflict, the UN counts that we will have next year 50% of the population lives under the poverty line. When I started on my Monday, there were only around 40% of the people were connected to electricity so the country is very poor and not well connected so from to travel from one point to another is very difficult. And this is now more difficult than ever with the ongoing conflict. Myanmar is also very diverse we have 14 states with 135 ethnic minorities, several different languages, and clearly they were never really united there was always a civil war between the ethnic armed organization and the army. At the beginning of my mandate I had clearly to make for myself a strategy how can I fulfill this mandate with so many issues to deal with. So, I decided to learn the country to travel to meet the people to listen, and to be a bridge between the NLD government and the military we call them Tamador, between the different states with the different ministries, and the government in Napido to be a bridge between Myanmar and the international community because they didn't really like to work with the UN, but also in the ASEAN that we have the bridge also to towards the ASEAN countries. Next, the strategy was also what I forgot to say is to keep quiet in the public because I wanted to gain trust and wanted to have a connection where I can start to give recommendations. So this was also on the peace process overall, I think many people only concentrate on the Rakhine and Rohingya issue, but normally we forget that the country had always a peace process problem with around 21 ethnic armed organizations. You see here on the map the all the 21 organizations mostly at the border on the east coast, east border, and they have sometimes 30,000 soldiers, so they are also quite heavily equipped with weapons. And they fight it in the past against the military and in the last five years since the NLD government was in place, not really since moved in a satisfactory way. Next, clearly under those conditions, many civilian people suffered and especially children you can see here, child soldiers, and fortunately in the last three, four years when I started my mandate, we could quite solve this problem. But now we are almost back to square one, we heard already that they restarted to recruit children to have them as soldiers. But clearly also all civilian people suffered under the conflict and the isolation and it created 336,000 IDPs in all over the country. Next. So when I started to travel I went also like in the region of Kachin where I talked to two women they were all victims of the conflict. And I wanted to hear from them what they can expect what they want to expect from the UN what can I do. We have around 2500 staff members in Myanmar from the UN that's the UN country team. They are working on the humanitarian assistance. They had to care for around one million people before the coup. Now we have around three million people which the same team has to deal with. But clearly my mandate was separately to the UN country team. So my team was in the beginning only two staff member and I had to be home base that means I live in Switzerland but I traveled back and forth to Myanmar and then to New York but I also visited the P5 members so I went to Moscow, Washington, Paris, London, Beijing but I also visited India, Bangladesh and almost all ASEAN member countries. Next. Here I also spoke to the local governments here in Kachin but also in other states to listen to them because it was really not the unified country where every state had separate wishes and clearly they all wanted to create a federal structure in the country but that was not easy with 21 armed organization. Next. This was on the Panglong conference. This is the peace conference because in 2015 there was a national ceasefire agreement but only 10 out of 21 ethnic armed organization joined this national ceasefire agreement. So the Panglong conference where we discussed how to move on in the peace process was regularly held and I was invited in 2018 by Aung San Suu Kyi to be part of this conference. As you can see on the left hand side, the leader of the KNU and clearly I had contact with all ethnic armed organizations. Next. Clearly I had also visited Myanmar, I visited him or his deputy and the discussions were always very open, frank, critical. So this I could do because of my strategy, I never went in the public to tell what we really discussed, but clearly inside the UN I informed regularly my boss secretary general, and also in close contact with the UNCT so the UN country team. And I had always open openness from the army and they were quite constructive with me on my recommendations, but clearly I had to change also the narrative on the Rohingya issue. It was not easy but I think it helped that I grew up in Asia, I lived 10 years, the first 10 years of my life in Japan so when I go to Asia, I have clearly an Asian approach when I talk to the people. Next. I also visited every time and San Suu Kyi, the first two, the first two, three meetings where with her entourage, but then I realized that they even have mistrust between the people in or the members in the ministries because they were also the former army people worked in the ministries and they didn't have really trust inside the ministry so I decided to have meetings with her alone and each time when I traveled to Myanmar, I had one or two hours meeting with her. Next. My task was also to inform the Security Council on demand. This was normally three times per year. Since the coup happened on the 1st of February, it was already seven times and maybe there will be a next one in the coming next two weeks. But I also had to brief the General Assembly twice a year and especially also on the Rohingya issue. Next. If you heard all my tasks, then I had to prioritize a little bit what I can do with only two staff members in the beginning. Now I have five at the end of my mandate, but it was not so easy to have a complete staff. But when I started, I decided to concentrate on Rakhine, which is the state in the west of Myanmar, where the Rohingyas lived or still live, some of them, and and Sonsuji agreed that I concentrate my work on this issue to help to implement the Coffee Anand's recommendations and to make the Rakhine conducive for the return of the one million refugees. Here you can see a picture which I took from the helicopter. The army always provided me a helicopter and I could really go wherever I wanted to travel in Rakhine. Here you see that was in 2018 when I started my mandate, you see still the burned villages. When I last time I traveled to Rakhine before COVID, it was difficult to see those burned villages again because now the nature took over and yeah, so, but that's the reason it's important to have the evidences also for the accountability issue. Next. In Rakhine, I talked to the Rohingya people in the IDP camps. We have all over the country, we have 140 IDP camps alone in Rakhine, we have 127,000 IDPs and they live in camps and I had to talk with them, what can I do for them, what they want from my mandate to be changed for their situation, especially on the citizenship and therefore I traveled around in 24 camps, but I went back almost in the same camps to see if my recommendations worked and if the situation changed. Next. This is the zero zone, this is the zone between Bangladesh and Myanmar, where the people cannot move because it's a closed zone. I think only ICRC can provide them with assistance, so I had to talk with the Rohingyas over the fence. In Rakhine, I clearly also had discussion with the people from the Buddhist community but also from the Hindu community. It was important to have a social cohesion on the ground that they learn to accept and respect each other because the army made this divide for many years, that was a strategy to create a scapegoat that they were the Rohingyas and therefore my task was also to bring the communities together again. Next. And we have another challenge in January 2019, the civil war started in Rakhine between the Arakhan army and the military, the Tamadol. The Arakhan army has not a Muslim background, they have a Buddhist background and they are fighting for a certain independence of Rakhine and they want to leave the Arakhan dream and therefore they started to kill a police which were engaged by the military from Napidore and then the army came back to Rakhine to fight against the Arakhan army. So from that moment on I had to travel under protection because it was really a civil war but I was glad that I still could go to Rakhine to talk to the people and Ansan Tsuchi agreed that I can send one of my staff member regularly alone to Rakhine to talk to the people and to come back with recommendations to implement them. Next. Here you can see Cox Bazar, this is the biggest refugee camp in the world with one million Rohingyas. I visited the camp in the beginning of my mandate three and a half years ago and I thought I'd just go there to know the conditions that I can talk to the Rohingyas what they want and that I can concentrate my work on Rakhine. But then I realized that the bilateral relationship is not so good between Myanmar and Bangladesh and I talked to many people not only in the camps. Next. So here you see the conditions how the Rohingya live in Cox Bazar. Next. And I talked to the women especially because that was maybe also an advantage to be a woman as a special envoy. As a man you couldn't talk to them alone. That's a Muslim community. And so I could hear really the challenges of the life in Cox Bazar camps. Next. I went to DACA Prime Minister Shea Cassina and her foreign minister asked me also to mediate between the two countries to have a better implementation of the MOU which was created between Bangladesh and Myanmar for the repatriation of the Rohingyas. I asked my boss secretary general if I should do this as well additionally to my mandate and he said yes please so then I have was six times before Corona or COVID-19. We seated Bangladesh DACA but also Cox Bazar. Next. Yeah, then we had the Civil War started in my view again on the first of February with the military coup. This was really so sad because I am my team and I we could really improve the situation on the ground and many recommendations were implemented. The election 2020 was a success. It was a transparent fair election with a clear victory of the NLD party. So the military coup started on the first of February. I say started because it's not ended. The military has not the upper hand and they couldn't create stability after the first of February. Next. In the beginning the people demonstrated peacefully on the street and the resistance was very heavy and it's still very strong. So the people created a CDM civil disobedience movement. People didn't go back to work, especially not the health worker. So the banking system collapsed the health system collapsed. And the military has still have still difficulty to gain upper hand and to create stability. Next. The military came really quickly with huge violence on the street and I can tell you I receive every day a very heavy video clips from the people in Myanmar, which shows the scale of the violence going on in Myanmar. Next. People started also to take arms and they first self made weapons but then they were also provided by the ethnic armed organizations with weapons because now they have a common enemy is the army in Napido. And they also get training from the ethnic armed organizations and therefore we can really see every day heavy clashes between the army and the people. Next. So the situation is very bad now. And, as I said, the UN has now to care about 3 million people. And it's very difficult situation because the military wanted to gain legitimacy as the government, but now it's the credential at the UN who has the say who is really the government for the moment both sides wanted to be seen as the legal government. Therefore, the situation is very difficult and very violent and my, my view in the future, unfortunately, for the moment is very pessimistic. But I hope that my idea of full of all inclusive dialogue, which was not responded positively by the army, maybe the special envoy of ASEAN or my successor will have more success to implement because the country needs peace. If you see this picture it shows we need to continue to stand for the people because the children should not have a lost generation and they should finally live in peace in this very beautiful country. This is a little bit in a nutshell but I hope to get a lot of questions of which where I can give you more details. Thank you. Sorry, thank you very much indeed special envoy. That was a really detailed contextual overview of the situation in Myanmar over the period when you have been special envoy and and some really rich insights in relation to your role and the efforts you have gone to to to address the situation there. And it's, it's particularly interesting to hear about your engagement on the ground with the displaced communities and with the ethnic groups and also with the army as well the Tath Madhau. And watching and seeing the mobilization of people on the streets of Myanmar and is is is is quite extraordinary but of course highly regrettable that that has now descended into into a violent situation and and all that comes with that so. So, so thank you very much indeed for a really rich presentation. I might just ask you there are lots of questions in the chat but I might just ask you a couple of questions before we move to the Q&A session. There have been sanctions imposed against Myanmar by the international community. What's your assessment of those sanctions and to what extent could they be, could they be strengthened even further as a means of confronting and combating the situation there. Yeah, sanctions clearly it's up to the member states of the UN and not on the UN to decide on sanctions. In my view, sanctions can be effectful if they are targeted, because we should not punish once again the population. But if it's targeted against the people who made a unlawful military coup, then it can have an effect. And therefore, I think, until now many countries took sanctions. But the lead had always the US and then the EU followed that's also reason I traveled several times to Brussels to talk with the EU, but then also other countries who followed sanctions but there is clearly still space for more sanctions but as I said it's up to the member states. The most powerful sanctions clearly would come from the Security Council. But I doubt that the Security Council will have a resolution because in the Security Council we have China and Russia who are normally against sanctions. And you haven't been to Myanmar since the coup and nor indeed has the asian special envoy been there yet either. And to what extent do you expect that, you know, given that you have engagement with the army, to what extent is there any prospect of that engagement being reinforced. I had always contact with the army also since the coup like in the in the night of the coup in Switzerland night it was already early in the morning in Myanmar. One of my staff called me and she said that who happened and then I asked to talk immediately with the army so I could talk at three o'clock in the night with the deputy commander in chief for three hours. And afterwards I had several meetings with him virtually, but clearly the army was not keen to invite me back to Myanmar because I was, I'm still very well known in the country. And once there was a rumor special envoys in town and thousands of people went to the airport to greet me. So therefore the army has no interest that the people are again encouraged to continue their resistance with my presence on the ground. My last meeting I had was end of July with the deputy commander in chief virtually, but I also met the commander in chief in Jakarta because I went back to the region in April, May, June. I was based in Bangkok then and I traveled to Jakarta and Japan, and in Jakarta I could have a long discussion with the commander in chief. And then I proposed an all inclusive dialogue where the SAC, which is now the government of the army, they would also be included in such a dialogue. The ethnic armed organization agreed to this proposal, I spoke to almost all of them. The NUG, which is now the national unity government of the people of the former NLD government. They were also in favor of my support, but clearly they had some conditions like the release of the political prisoners, including An San Suu Kyi and the president, but the army didn't give me any answer back. So the special envoy of ASEAN has also the task from the ASEAN to have a dialogue. He traveled in, I think it was in June before he was appointed special envoy. And now he wants to go back to Myanmar as the special envoy, but he couldn't because the conditions he made were not fulfilled by the army. And just before I move to the Q&A one final question, you've talked a lot about the political process and the diplomacy around the situation in Myanmar. But isn't it true as well that there is a role for commercial interests, like for example oil and gas companies, some which are headquartered in the United States, for example, that there's a role for the textile industry. Some of the biggest and most luxurious brands in the world have had large textile factories in Myanmar, which are now effectively closed down. And a role as well for communication companies, some of the largest communication companies in the world like Facebook, for example, and others in terms of maintaining open access to communication in Myanmar as well. What's your view on the role, a more, I suppose a more robust role for some of those interests in confronting the situation there? Yeah, the economy is suffering really. If we see probably next year, the health of the population will live under the poverty line and will also start to starving and this situation is really dire. And as you mentioned that the companies from outside also suffering because people don't go to the work and they want to have these disobedience continued. The people also started to attack such constructions like the telecommunication and items and also the pipelines. And therefore the countries involved in this business have an interest that the country finds back to a stability. And in the forefront is clearly China, who has also the interest to implement their Belt and Road Initiative. And therefore I hope also that such countries will help to get stability in the country but to respect the wish of the people because if I get messages every day from the people on the ground then it's the more or less they would rather like to die and go back in a military dictatorship. That's very sad, but that's I think not a no turning point, because it's not the same situation as we had in the past like in 1988, because people live now in the last 10 years more or less under a certain freedom, and they could see how the world looks like over the border, and they have social media, they are very well connected which they were not in 1988. So people don't want, they want to stop the cycle of violence. Yeah, that's been very clear since February the resilience of the Myanmar people and their, their intent that that this situation will be will be reversed. Let me just go to some questions now from from the Q&A we have a question, excuse my pronunciation here. A question from Nien Nien Pi. And the question is, if the international community is current diplomatic approach fails to prevent the worsening situation in Myanmar. What is the likelihood that the international community will take action and intervene in the near future so I suppose, what what do you think the prospects are for for resolution as if the situation deteriorates. Yeah, I always in my statements in the Security Council or in the GA made an appeal to the international community make action to really reword the situation. If this, if that doesn't happen, then it's it's really difficult for the people on the ground. So, I still hope that we have good decisions from the Security Council or from also from the ASEAN to help the situation change and also from big players like China, Russia and the US. But clearly, we have to stand with the people and also Secretary General who cherish content very heavily the coup happened. Thank you. Question also from Niall O'Keefe from Trocra here in Ireland and NGO. And the question is, what can Ireland do to ensure Myanmar, and in particular the humanitarian situation is raised more urgently in the UN Security Council. The humanitarian situation is really bad and clearly the COVID pandemic is still going on and it's completely out of control. So the the UN together with donors want to bring vaccination to Myanmar, but this is not easy because the providers of the vaccine also asking a certain contract with the government, but who is the government and we should avoid to give legitimacy to the military junta. And on the same time, we need access through the army because if not, we cannot reach the people. And this is now a very delicate balancing act, how we can bring the vaccine to the to the people without also neglecting their voice and choice that they don't want to get the vaccine by the military junta. And this is an ongoing discussion which we have and that's also reason why I travel next week to New York to discuss this inside the UN. I was two, three weeks ago also in Geneva to meet the global fund and coax to discuss this and I mean almost every second day in contact with the UNCT on the ground on this issue. So this is an ongoing challenge. And in terms of Ireland's role specifically now with a seat on the UN Security Council. And what what sort of advice would you have for Ireland in terms of bringing these issues on to the agenda more robustly. Ireland is really active in the Security Council and I really appreciated always the discussion with your PR Geraldine and I think the E10, the non permanent members, they can really do a lot. And they can also be a breach between the strong ones who don't want to have any action and to that they can discuss with them to bring action from the Security Council. And I know Ireland is also very strong on the issue of WPS so women peace and security, and the women also play a very important role in Myanmar so Ireland is a very good support in the Security Council. A question from Alex White who's chair of the IEA's energy group. Thank you for your excellent and informative presentation and asking about your sense of how or whether the legal system is functioning under the current crew regime. Has that also collapsed and he is particularly interested in whether you think there is any functioning system for the resolution of labor disputes, which, which did exist prior to the coup. Yeah, that's very difficult because now we have so many political prisoners, 82% of them we don't know where they are exactly. So they don't have any protection so the legal system in my view doesn't work and we have a chaotic system. There are some trials, like against Ansan Tsuchi and the president, but we just heard today that the lawyer of Ansan Tsuchi was now forbidden by the CUNTA to have contact with the outside world so I cannot contact him anymore without harming him. So this is a very bad situation and I don't know exactly what means it for other people who want to have justice but honestly also before the coup it was difficult. Remember the Reuters journalists who were sentenced. So the army had in fact always the upper hand even before the coup and this is sometimes forgotten because the army created in 2008 their own constitution, which says that the army has 25% of the seats in the parliament. If they want to change the constitution, then the constitution says in another article it needs more than 75% of the votes in the parliament. So the army had always like a veto right, and that was the reason that Ansan Tsuchi could never change really the constitution or laws, because she was always clear that she wanted to change the system to have a real democracy in the country. So the army had always the power and that was also the root causes of the coup. They didn't want to accept that Ansan Tsuchi was really determined now to change the constitution. A question from David Joyce who's the equality officer with the Irish Congress of trade unions and David thanks you for your great insight into your work. He says the trade union movement has been calling for a number of actions, including recognition of the CRPH and the National Unity Government at the UN General Assembly. Establish formal contacts and channeling of humanitarian aid with and through the National Unity Government and moving from sanctions and restrictive measures on individuals to the State Administration Council as an entity to sanction, especially in the oil and gas and the timber sector and all international financial flows via European companies. The European Parliament's resolution adopted on the 7th of October shows support for such measures and the question is, do you agree that in order for real change to happen. Real must start to feel the pressure because it's not okay for business to funnel resources to the military and it's not okay for banks and others to invest in these companies and that action is needed if we're going to save lives and and restore democracy. I agree that action is needed. That was also always the voice of Secretary General, but how and what it's clearly up to the Member States from the UN we cannot do any recommendations, but you, I can assure you that I'm in contact with so many governments and like I when I heard that the Senate of France just now accepted the NUG as the legal government. Maybe others will follow, but at the UN, it's the Credential Committee which is composed by nine Member States and in those nine we have three permanent members this US, Russia and China. And they had, they came together but they didn't make make an any decision yet, but they decided to postpone the decision and until then, the Myanmar Senate ambassador in tune and and then there could be that the Credential Committee makes another decision in the maybe in November. So it's up to them but Member States can do if they think it's enough and they should have action. It's up to them. Okay, thank you. We have a question from for Rosa Dada, and by way of background here for Rosa's wife is a panda from Shan State, and they have set up a UK charity some years ago to help the power children at Inla Lake. This is a very practical question because given the political situation they are unable to send money through to the bank to help those people. Have you any suggestions as to how assistance can be sent to me and more at the moment. Yeah, I know there are some channels, but maybe not here in public. So, yeah, she can write to me we I can connect her. Okay, perhaps we can facilitate a connection after today's event and thank you special envoy. And we have another question from Niall O'Keefe from trokera, who's asking how do we facilitate Myanmar civil society to speak at the international level. What risk mitigation measures, can the international community provide. Yeah, I think the international community should continue to be loud. Otherwise, this conflict will be forgotten because we know, sometimes it will get normal for the international community. But I think we are in a very critical period, because the stability was not gained by the army. Therefore, we can reward the situation. So the international community should stay be loud, and to give support to the people. And what strikes me that from the outside that what's very much valued by people on the ground, and particularly the civil disobedience movement in Myanmar is that people stay attuned to what's happening in Myanmar, and that it remains on the international agenda. And, and I think that's a very important message which which civil society in Myanmar has been has been seeking to to spread. I have a question from Niall O'Keefe as well about the EU and what the European Union can do to increase pressure on on on the military to return Myanmar to democracy. Well, the EU always also followed the sanctions from the US. They just made a resolution. I think it's the same day. It's up to them if they want to do more. Clearly, we should be careful not to harm the people again. And as I always said, violence is never a solution, but I also cannot really say to the people you just accept the situation how it is. So we have to understand that the people are very angry and frustrated. So I hope still that we find a peaceful solution through dialogue but for the moment it seems very difficult. Alice Allen, who's a researcher at the IIA asks, what steps could Myanmar really realistically take to ensure successful integration with equality and inclusion for the ethnic minorities, alongside the Bama majority. Yeah, maybe that's the only positive thing from the coup that the the Bama majority with the Buddhist background had never faced the violence from the army from Tamil. But now the Tamil is attacking them as well in the same manner. The four-capped strategy is the same. They're burning villages now in Sagay and in Kaya, Kain, in Chin. So it's not anymore in the in the region formally in Cajin or Shan. And that brought the people now together. Many Bama people are sending me messages that they said we were not aware how much the ethnic minority suffered in the past and how much the scale of the violence was. And also on the Rohingya issue, they said, oh, we are ashamed that we didn't help them in the past. And we are really sorry what happened to the Rohingyas. And this is new. And therefore the unity of the people is higher than ever. And that could be a chance for the country. And if we have a stability once in the country, I really hope, and I'm sure that if the right people are in the government, then they will also protect the ethnic minorities in the in the future. Well, that is, that is, that is one positive to cling to. We have a question from Quiva de Barra, who's the CEO of Troca here in Ireland. And it's a question about women, peace and security. And she asks, would it be useful for Ireland to hold a discussion on women, peace, security and Myanmar at the informal expert group on women, peace and security at the UN Security Council. So I suppose in terms of Ireland actually leading on an issue. Yeah, I was briefing this group in New York several times. And I think it's always important to talk about the situation of the women, because normally they are really under the vulnerable group, but also they are very strong. And they are strong in resisting the military coup. And I spoke yesterday, three hours nonstop with women in Rakhine. So I'm still in contact with the women on the ground and they really appreciate the discussions that they are not thinking that we have forgot them and that we lost them. So it's always good to discuss the situation of the women on the ground. And that has been a priority issue for Ireland through its membership of the Security Council. So a question from Sobu. How can the UN help vaccination programs in Myanmar, and in particular, what's your position on COVAX delivery? Yeah, we work the UNICEF and WHO, but also my team is present at such meetings on COVID prevention and protection measures. And we hope that we can bring the vaccine through Global Fund and COVAX to the country. But clearly, without legitimation the SAC, and that's important. So we hope that the discussion will be fruitful, that we can help the people on the ground in the respect of the wish of the people. And a question from a master's student, Neva Sullivan at University College Cork. And she talks about the shrinking of the humanitarian space since the coup having been alarming. And asks about your insights from your dialogue with the Tatmadaw on, I suppose, their willingness to facilitate and allow humanitarian assistance and to allow humanitarian organizations to carry out their activities. Yeah, the Tatmadaw, they want to have the delete on humanitarian assistance, and that's not what the people want. So we have to continue to discuss with them to find a solution which is acceptable. So clearly, we will be very careful. And this is also a discussion which I will follow next week in New York. Thank you. Well, we're close to the end of this afternoon session and special envoy, we're very grateful for your frankness and for your insights and for your advice as well. Could I maybe conclude by asking you, you've mentioned that you're pessimistic about the prospects for the future, could you talk us through that a little bit more. In terms of how you see the situation transpiring over the next few months, and what efforts could be made here in Ireland at the Security Council or by the international community to to avert the worst, the worst of those crises that maybe come. Yeah, if both sides don't want to give up and use more and more violence, then clearly we will have a scale of a full blown internal armed conflict. And this to solve and to change will be more and more difficult. So therefore, I still hope that the ASEAN special envoy will be allowed under his conditions to travel to Myanmar, and to reason the Tamador to discuss and also to release the political prisoners. Otherwise, I think it's up to the Security Council to take action. Well, thank you very much indeed it's really been, it's been a fascinating discussion and we're very grateful for your time and and for your insights in relation to the current situation in Myanmar. As you can see from the number of questions coming from the audience there is a very healthy appetite and interest in the situation in Myanmar and an eagerness for Ireland to to play a role, whether it's humanitarian organizations, the Irish parliament or the Irish Council. So I know that you have just two weeks left in your role as special envoy so can I take the opportunity to thank you for your service as special envoy and to wish you the very best for the next stage of your career and I think it's safe to say that here in Ireland will be watching you for the interest for some years to come and and hoping that the situation there stabilizes and improves, but for now, special envoy sincere thank you. Thank you to the IIA for hosting today's session to the Department of Foreign Affairs for sponsoring sponsoring the global Europe program and to all of you who joined us online for today's webinar. I hope you found it interesting and valuable and thanks for your participation. Thank you very much weekend and I wish me a more peace and thank you, Ireland for your continued support. It's great. Thank you.