 We all get dealt a hand at the end of the day. And it's not my job to look over shoulders and say, oh, his hand looks really good. Oh, that hand looks really good. My job is to play that hand as best as I can. In my story, my journey, there's an element of it that defies logic. It's not logical for somebody to go through the route that I've gone and got to level that I've got to. In the UK, remind me, is it the third fastest? Four fastest. Four fastest, seem to be third. Yeah, or first. I've got this sort of duality of being an accountant, being a sprinter. You can try to pursue both things to the absolute highest level, but at some point, something's going to break. Yeah. And it's going to be you. Is it fair to say, based on what you've just said to us, that if you want to be great, then you can't have it all? That's a good question. How many times have we been told that it's never late to start? We've all seen the viral posts of Oprah Winfrey or Jacob Olin and even Jeff Bezos getting started in their 30s. And Steve Carrell as well as Samuel Jackson getting their big face in their 40s. Although we have these examples of practical dreamers, we all know that in reality, it is not that simple. Between dependence, bills, nine to five and all these other things that come with adulthood, it can feel impossible for us to take the time to really explore some of our ideas and our dreams and our passions. In this episode, I'm speaking of Eugene Amodadzi, the world's fastest accountant. He is the fourth fastest bit of all time. Most people get started in track and field at a really early age, whereas Eugene started at 26. Jonathan's episode is we explore how he turned his dream into his reality. That is terrible people to stop. The 16 digits. Imagine, I know three. That's all I know. What are the three that you know? No, I know the number three. Three points. I don't know the rest. I don't know the rest. I don't even know what pie is for. Is it like something to do with a triangle? It's triangles and circles. I think you use pie to... I think you can use it to work out the circumference of a circle. That's it. But when would you ever need to do that? If I'm not an engineer, obviously, if I'm not an engineer or something like that, then... Okay, okay, that's terrible. If I'm an engineer, people might be important. I don't know, do quantity surveyors do that kind of thing? But are they not just types of engineers? I don't know, are they? I would have assumed that they are. I would have assumed that they are. Remind me, in terms of your weight, in terms of being fastest UK-wise, where are you from? Number four. Your number four. Yeah, joint fourth with a fellow named Rhys Prescott. Okay, and where are you... Do you know where you would be all time? In what, as in... UK. Oh, wait, no, fourth. Your fourth all time in the UK? Yeah, my fourth fastest British runner ever. There's only three people currently. He've run faster than me. James Osalu, Lin Fikristi, and Zahner Hughes. Damn, that's... I knew you was good, but I didn't realize it was that. No, it's a while to me, because I grew up watching, like, Marquis Francis, Marlon Devonish, Christian Malcolm, Dwayne Chambers, Daryl Campbell. You're faster than Dwayne Chambers? I'm faster than all those guys, I just mentioned. Dwayne Chambers ran 9.97. So he's number... Where's Dwayne? I think Dwayne is number seven. That's insane. All the time. That is literally insane. I knew you was good, but I didn't actually deep view you as that good. Okay. I don't think I've deeped it myself. Because, like, Dwayne Chambers, like, is fully, like, some massive guy. No, I don't know. I had to get what you're saying. He's an imposing figure. Physically, and also just, like... Personality-wise, or that. But then, I guess, even in Dwayne's case, like, obviously, he also had the drug allegations and stuff like that, so... You know which he talks about? Yeah, yeah, a lot. He'll speak about it at length now. Yeah. I feel like a part of what he does now is... I mean, I'm not sure I feel like it is him. I feel like he needs to give back from a sport like that. So he did actually do it, didn't he? Yeah, he did it, yeah. He did it. He came out and said, look, yeah, he... It's interesting, you know, when people say, like, they're willing to do anything to win. Yeah. And I'm not willing to do anything to win within the confines of, you know, the parameters set by, you know, wild athletics and whatever else. Yeah, yeah. But he was willing to do anything. Right. So that meant, like, I need to cheat, I need to do what I mean. So how does it feel to be faster than not only like a legend like that, but a legend that also cheaters? You know what? It's interesting, because the way I am, I don't... People say, oh, you doped and then, like, especially the British public, they can be very unforgiving. Me, I'm not really like that. So it's weird. I can separate the human from the act. So I don't necessarily, like, I love Dwayne Chambers because I grew up watching Dwayne Chambers, I was a big fan. So, okay, he had his dope and scandal, but he's had his ban, he did his time. And to be honest, he's paid for it, you know, materially and as well as, I'm sure, like mentally and all the things he's gone through since. So, but yeah, like, I don't think I've really... I still think there's elements of it that's surreal. Like, Dwayne Chambers, what do you mean? I was a little kid watching this guy doing great things. And I mean, he's done things in this sport that, of course, I aspire to do in terms of major championships and stuff, but it's wild to me to say, okay, yeah, he's actually below me. When it's all said and done, I'm actually... Higher-ranking, higher-ranking. So that's wild to me. That's mad. So, but Linford Christie's currently... Number two. Number two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, obviously, he then got found for dope and stuff towards the end of his career, but after he set that time on the scene then. Yeah, so I think back in his time, of course, there was a few issues with a lot of athletes then. But again, to me, Linford is like the go, you know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm trying to say. So it's one of those things where for me, even like with Justin Gatlin, another example, I'm a big fan, you know what I mean? I loved everything about Gatlin, you know what I mean? Okay, but he took, you know what I mean? He did what he did. But again, he served his time and he came back, you know what I mean? And that's all you can ask, okay? The sport has said, if you are found guilty for this offense, you get a four year ban, whatever it is, and they've done that. So I'm very much like me sitting here under the lens of Christianity and the fact that being born a sinner, but God's saying, you know what? I'm gonna forget all of those things against you and accept you because of the sacrifice of his son. How dare I then now start to be judged, jury, executioner, it's never gonna happen because by the measure we use, it will also be used against us. If I'm out here being judgmental, writing people off, counting them out, whatever, because of something that they've done or a mistake they've made, then my goodness, when I make a mistake, do you know what I mean? What can I expect to come back to me? So that's kind of like my mindset. So all of these guys I just mentioned, they're always gonna be legends, you know, to me. Before I do jump in, I do have one question, which is off script, start with a no. Do you feel that you could be number one by the time you retire? I'm trying to be top two, not two. Yeah? Top two, not two. Love it, love it. That's gotta be the ambition though. That's gotta be the dream, that's gotta be the mindset. I'm not here to just make up numbers. So yeah, by the grace of God, when it's all said and done, why can't I be regarded as the greatest, the fastest, the best British printer of all time? Yeah. And if it doesn't happen, I'm not gonna be like crushed and disappointed. It will be a great journey regardless and God will get the glory regardless. But no, I'm an ambitious guy. For me, it's like, why should I put a limit on what I could or could not achieve? Yeah. Just enjoy the journey. Yeah, that's beautiful. When we spoken before, one of the ideas that really came out or came from what you're saying to me is the idea of leaving this life with nothing left in you, like really utilizing all of your gifts and all of your talent. And when you're explaining it to me, you used like a parable to explain kind of where that idea came from. Could you tell us about that? I can. Yeah, I believe it's Matthew 25, the parable of the talents. And it speaks about a harsh master who's about to go away on a, let's say a business trip and paraphrasing. And he leaves a certain amount of currency or money and it's called talent with his servants. So to the first one he gives, I believe five, to the next one he gives two and to the last one he gives him one. And he goes away for some time and he returns. So the first guy comes and says, hey, look, you gave me these five talents and look, I've got five more. And he says, okay, well done. Good and faithful. You've been good and faithful with small things. So now I'll put you in charge of many things. The next one comes. You gave me two, I've got two more. He said, oh wow, you've been faithful with small things. I'll put you in charge of many things. And he comes to the last one, who gave one. And he says, I need to be a harsh master and I was fearful. So he buried it and the master was furious. And he said, if you knew I was a harsh man, why couldn't you at least take it to the bank and some interest and you could have given me something? Because of this evil that you've done, I'll take this one you have and give it to one of the guys who's got, however many already. And it's just stuck with me forever. Ever since I heard that parable. I mean, growing up in a Catholic household, I guess I'd heard the parable before. But I guess the weight of it didn't really hit me until I'd made a decision to start track and field. And I thought, my goodness, I was the guy and this is almost unknowingly, I'd buried the talent. I was sitting on a talent. The talent would have been buried in the ground with me and that's what I spoke about. I don't want to go back to the grave with unspent potential. Every day I wake up as an opportunity for me to get out there, get after it. So I said, okay, God, you've given me this talent, this passion, all of these things I'm feeling, all these ambitions I have, I believe is from Him. So what am I gonna do with it? I'm gonna give it to Him and then I'm gonna get after it. I say all the time, this isn't a passive situation or passive faith. It's active, it's proactive. So that's what it is. So I wouldn't say that that is like a biggest fear or anything, more like a daily motivation. I do not wanna go back to the ground. I want to go back to the ground empty, completely release all the potential and all that talent God's placed inside me. I wanna spend it all for His glory. So when it's all said and done, I hear those words, well done, good and faithful servant. That's amazing. You did say, however, that there's a point where you was the person that was burying that potential, that talent, that gift that you had. What was causing you to do that before? You know what? So I was the guy, you always hear those people, who could have been footballers and they say, if not for their, you know, don't you need it, they could have made it. And I guess for a period of time, I believe that same sort of thing of, okay, if I wasn't doing track and field from when I was a teenager, when I was young, then okay, by the time I got to 25, 26, 27 years of age, that's when people are sort of at the peak of their career, the peak, you know, the peak of their powers is too late. So I think there was an element of me feeling like, you know, that ship had sailed for me. I think there was an element of believe in my own legend. So people used to tell me all the time that I was quick. And I was playing football socially at the time. And I don't think I ever met a guy on a football pitch that could beat me. That is not a draw out. So anybody's listening to this, I'm not trying to draw anybody out. And when you say beat, you mean beat to the ball, it's just beating to the ball. Yeah, exactly that. So, you know, certain things came easy to me in playing football, you know, literally just old school, knock it past your man and beat him. And it was just like that. So again, believe in my own legend of, okay, I was quick and if I tried, I could have made it. So for years, that was good enough. It's good enough to know, it was good enough to think I could have done it. So I remember when we had the home Olympic Games 2012, watching it, seeing Adam Gimini burst onto the scene doing chambers, made the Olympics that year too and thinking, okay, if I had done it, I could have been that guy. So yeah, I think it was a few different things. Fear? I don't know, would fear have been there too? I think fear of being found out, fear that you go into the track and field space, everybody to a degree anyway, it's talented. Everybody is fast. So maybe I'm not as fast as I think I am, you know, maybe I couldn't have made it if I tried. So if I just, I've never tried, I'll never find out. So your own mistake was more comfortable for you to not actually put yourself to the test so you can continue to believe this legend because of the moment that you try it and if it turns out not to be true, then that means something else. Yeah, no, absolutely. And look, for somebody who, I guess, I spent a large period of my upbringing and childhood finding my value system or like placing certain value in, I guess, things that are essentially gonna pass away. So whether it was my reputation, the things that I could do, the things that I owned, I guess the type of people I hung around, I was trying to find my identity in a bunch of different things. So, you know, to your questions, to your point, if I then go into the world of track and field and I'm not as good as I thought I was or good as the teachers and my friends thought I was and said I was, then what's gonna happen to my identity? Am I still gonna feel the same way I feel about myself, you know, walking along thinking I could have done it and then finding out, oh my goodness. You know, so I think all of those different things probably played a part in why, up until the age of 26, I was sort of sat on this talent and essentially buried this talent. Right, so it's almost before 26, your potential meant more to you than your reality. You sound like one of those, you know, when women say, I love women, by the way, again, before people try to come from my neck, about not dating men with potential or like, you know, the whole thing about a man who speaks about potential is that you need to see the action and yeah, I guess in a way, yeah, I guess that was true. The idea of it was kind of enough and I didn't bother too much about whether it could actually be a reality or not and maybe I didn't really want to find out if it could or not. And if I'm honest with you, I think a lot of people that just live in exactly that same space where the minute we have to really put our, I guess our actions in line with our potential, our words or things of that nature, that's when it becomes tough because, yeah, if we're not who we think we are or who we think we could be, then that means essentially you've been living a lie because happens to that point where your potential is this unmeasurable, unknown thing, then anything is possible, but until you actually get in the arena and actually try to give something a go, then it doesn't really mean much. Yeah, no, I'd agree with that. I'd 100% agree with that. I think it's one of those things where I think a lot of people will sooner think about the negatives of what if I fail or what if it's quite a lot, I thought it'd be. And I think one thing that I learned by taking that step of faith is, it's fun. I am having a blast. I'm having a great time, you know what I mean? A really, really good time. And that's not just when things are going well. I was about to ask you, are you having fun because you're winning? No, because this is the beauty. When you get hurt, so in my sport, of course, health is everything. If you're not fit, you can't compete. You can't compete, you can't do anything. And the sport quickly moves on. So when I'm injured, and I've had a few periods in my career where I've been injured, but what I've grown to learn is these are opportunities to grow. These are opportunities to sharpen other skills that maybe you wouldn't pay attention to as much if you were fit and healthy and everything was great. Do you know what I mean? I'm working on my mindset, my mentality. Okay, if I can't run, okay, I'm gonna be the best in the gym. I'm gonna be the best sleeper. I'm gonna be the best with my nutrition. Do you know what I mean? I'm gonna be the best with the recovery, post-session. It's just other areas that I can optimize and get better. So when I'm back running, my base level is improved. So that's, I mean, look, I'm speaking to you after a few years to get to that point. That's not how I was at the beginning. So how was that at the beginning? I was like a spoiled brat because, so you start the sport and you think, okay, this is what God wants me to do. So there's this part of me that thinks everything's just gonna be plain sailing from that point. And I didn't have any expectations of like, you know, I guess becoming what it's become and God willing will become in future. But it was just, okay, something new started. But I picked up an injury. So my first season, I started winter 2018 and I had my first 100 meter race in April, 2019. I ran 10.93. And then I think my coach reckoned I was in 10, four, 10, five shape. So for a bit of context, that kind of time would probably put you maybe in a top 70 or so domestically. Yeah, yeah. So again, for somebody who came from my background to be in considered in that kind of region, that was exciting. So I'm gearing up training for this next race after I've run 10.93 and he's telling me I'm in 10, four, 10, five shape. And I tear my hamstring. Yeah. Literally, I don't think, I don't remember the last time I'd cried before that, but I hit the floor, I beat the track and I was literally saying, God, why? Like, I thought you wanted me to do this. You gave me this talent. You know, for all these years, I've been playing football kind of, I enjoy football, but track was like a different level of passion. Why has this happened? Why am I injured? Like, and I'm thinking about, okay, my coach has told me I'm capable of doing XYZ. So I feel like I've lost an opportunity now. You know, am I gonna be able to come back from this? When I do come back, am I gonna be the same? You know, like, all of these doubts start to come. Did I make the right decision? Like, should I just get healthy and go back to playing football? Because I never taught my hamstring playing football. Do you know what I mean? I don't think I had one real serious injury. At the same time, it was in your comfort zone, ultimately. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. I think almost with the story in the little bit of what you were talking about before, there's like an idea that's starting to come through for me, which is, it's not until you begin to, like, push yourself into something and you step out of your comfort zone, try and actually see how far your potential and your talent can go. That's when you get all these side benefits. Like, yeah, like things like you spoke about before, your maturity or all these other kind of habits and routines that even if you wasn't gonna continue to go down the next pathway, they'll make your life better. True. Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah, and that's what I mean about when I say to people that, you know, all these things, all these things that you're gonna think are gonna go wrong and negatives that keep coming into your mind and it's just a lot of the way we're geared that way. You know, when you think about stepping out of your comfort zone, you tend to think about the things that can go wrong and not what you can learn and how you can grow. But honestly, as I sit here with you now, and I'm talking in the context of sport, but it can really be applied to anything and everything. My faith has grown. I thought I'd get stronger, I'd get faster. Do you know what I mean? Those are kind of things, like tangible things that I knew. Okay, yeah, if I train, I'll get stronger, faster. But my faith growing and resilience of my character, discipline. So being able to set out a goal and stick to it, do you know what I mean? Accountability, I have coaches who set a program and I've got to show up and do the training. And there are training sessions when I'm not with my team. Okay, so I'm at the same in the dark as I'm in the light. When my coaches and stuff aren't there, am I disciplined enough to still do those sessions to the same level? You know what I mean? There are so many beautiful things that you can pick up in the pursuit of your passions, in the pursuit of your talents. But if you're not even willing to step out and see, you miss all of that. And that's kind of like when I talk about my stories, trying to encourage people to step out and do it. Because if a chartered accountant can go from, you know, like I said, in 2018, when I qualified as a chartered accountant, which interestingly enough was the same year that I started Track and Field. But if I can go from a nine to five situation, probably similar to a lot of people, you might have a little hobby on the side or you go gym recreationally, something like that, to for people who don't understand Track and Field, I'll say it like this. I went to the World Cup of Athletics of Track and Field. And then not only did I go there, I placed 10th in the world. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? If I can do that, then why can't you do whatever it is you've set your mind to, you know, we let our minds get away. I think that's a fantastic point. And I guess it's interesting, you say it was the same time you started Track and Field, same time you qualified, but something else important happened that year as well. Yes, same time I got married. So three, you know, massive things I'd say in terms of shaping the type of life that I would have. And it's probably also speaks this interest in like, those are free competing demands as well. Like, because we just got married, meant to be like the honeymoon period. And one of the early conversations was, oh, hey, babe, like, I know we've been married a few months. I want to pick up this new hobby. It means that I'll be out of the house on Tuesday and Thursday evenings, you know, would that be okay? And I think when we both agreed that, yeah, that's cool, no problem. I don't think either one of us realized. And at the same time, I've just become a qualified accountant. So I'm trying to forge a career in that field and, you know, step up the different rungs of the ladder that, you know, you start off at low level. And eventually you become like a director or, you know, chief financial officer. So again, figuring out how that's going to work. And, you know, okay, I'm at the bottom now. How am I going to get to the top? And then, okay, I'm in Track and Field. So no, there was no expectation or anything like that to do anything. But again, because of my mindset, I still want to excel at everything I do. So I think from 2018, it's just constant competing demands of like family, career and passion. And, you know, and how do I make sure that neither of these things, like none of these things suffer. You know, how do I make sure I'm the best for the family, best at work, but also, you know, improve as an athlete. And yeah, very much something still to this day that I'm, you know, juggling. And I think in terms of you being able to balance all these areas, it does. And also I guess one of the reasons why a lot of people don't start is because they don't have that support system around them in order to like really make that work. And from your story, I feel like you definitely have that there in place. Could you tell us a little bit more on that? Sure, yeah. No, I think of course, like it's not just I just got up and decided to be an athlete. And then, yeah, I've elevated myself to this level. For sure, big shout out to the Mrs. I always call her my MVP because literally she's like the key cog. Like if you take her out, everything manages, collapses. Because for me, and it's an interesting one, and it's a word to people when they're out and they're thinking about, you know, getting married and spouses and whatever else. Like for me, I have this peace and comfort and confidence. I go away on a warm weather camp for three months. Three months. Three weeks. My Mrs. would say three months. And I know that the house is good, you know, that my daughter is cool, like she's taking care of the household. So I think with her supporting the talent and me having that comfort that, you know, even when I'm away, she can hold it down and we can get make it work. Like you say behind every, you know, man is a great woman and I can testify to that. Without her, this just does not work. And then my employers like, you rarely find a situation where, especially when it's eating into their time and I've signed a contract with them and they're paying me. Right now I'm not a professional athlete. I don't have like a professional contract, but they've been, even when I was at a level, that just domestic supported it. You know what I mean? Whether they need to move around things in my contract and stuff like that. They've always been really, really supportive. Really, really encouraging, you know, short notice. I need to go, oh, my agents just come through. I need to, you know, go into this race in Europe. Okay, no problem. You know, go for it kind of thing and just helping to work around my schedule. So I think, yeah, I've got different people in my network who I guess grace me. But I think also, yes, like a strong support network is obviously needed, but I guess me being the pilot of my destiny, God is the pilot ultimately, but me being, I guess, hands on deck, the one on the ground, I certainly, I need to steer those support networks in the direction that I need them to go kind of thing. So I think for me, it's having those open and honest conversations like, we've all got different, you know, things that we may perceive as obstacles. Okay, I've got this obstacle. I've got this hurdle in the way. How do I work around that? And that's the question people don't ask. They just say, well, there's a hurdle there. Oh, surely I can't get past that. So they don't even try. So I think a supportive network is definitely important and it's good, but there's a part of, okay, if it's not quite where you feel like it needs to be for you to do what you want, okay, how do we get it there? And then again, look at me right now. Okay, great support network, but I compete. So I was 10th in the world. I still was my coach today. And he reminded me that the guy who was number nine was the world champion from last year, Fred Curley. And I think the guy who's number eight is the Commonwealth champion, you know? And I'll go further down the list and all of these guys live and breathe track and field. That's all they do, you know? Whereas I'm competing against these guys in a completely different setup, you know? But I've not looked at the fact that I've got, you know, responsibilities as a husband and a father or the fact that I work a nine to five, you know, I'm still a full-time accountant. I've not looked at these things as, ah, I'm not gonna be able to get to that level because of that. I'm like, okay, cool, that's my situation. Okay, how do I make it work? I'll say to my team, okay, this is my situation. I can only see you guys two times a week. So how do we make that work? And that's what I'm about. We all get dealt a hand at the end of the day. And it's not my job to look over shoulders and say, oh, his hand looks really good. Oh, that hand looks really good. My job is to play that hand as best as I can. So that's what I'm about, really. No, I love that. I think kind of going on that point about playing the cards, you've been dealt. So yeah, like we all, like at different points in our lives, we all have different things, good, bad, et cetera. I know like in my case, like dyslexia is a big thing that has impacted my life. But it comes with disadvantages, 100%, but it also comes with certain strengths that go alongside that. And I think no matter what it is that somebody has, like it could be the home situation, it could be the where they grew up, it could be whatever is their finances right now. It's like, yeah, they will pose and they'll con to each one of the situations. And even when you just have cons, that's still your card. So regardless, it's like you can either complain about it or we can find a way to try and make it work. And I think another thing that you've been saying that I really, really love, reminds you of a quote that one of my favorite artists says, like he's like really blown up in the last few years. And he has a quote where he says something online, sort of you'll be surprised by a number of people that will be willing to help you push when they see you actually get out and try and start something for yourself. And with your story, you talk about the support networks and opportunities and people that have been willing to invest into you. They, none of those people could have got on board with your story if you didn't make the decision for yourself, this is where you want to go. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely want to commend you on that. Thank you, brother. Thank you for listening to these episodes. If you haven't already, make sure you sign up to our mailing list at dreamnation.co forward slash mailing list. And from there, you'll be able to find out about all the things that we have coming for you. The question I do have now is great that you have your support, but for people that are listening right now who don't have that support, it's more than just an obstacle that literally the support is not there. They don't have that network around them. Do you have any advice for them? Don't let the dream die because, so I started when I was 26. So maybe somebody might be listening to this and thinking, okay, as the situation is right now, there really is no way out right now. And then they might sell themselves, okay, cool, if I can't do this thing right now, then it can't happen. But I want to encourage them that if I can, because everybody keeps saying I was a late starter and I'll tell you a story. So at my first British Championships, people who listened to this might know who Steve Cramm is, like a legendary distance runner. I think he ran 1500 meters or 800 meters. And on commentary, just from seeing my age, he says, you know, my dad's, he's 27 now, getting on a bit, but running as fast as he ever has. Because he saw the age and he thought, well, I know track and field and if somebody's going to do something in this sport, I'm going to know about them when they're 19, 20 years old. So for that person, I'll say that it's never too late. So maybe right now, your situation doesn't allow, but keep the passion alive, keep the dream alive. If it means that you just do it at a lower level, and I say to people all the time, the first thing you need to do is understand what the fundamentals are of whatever your field is and just work on that. Literally, just work on those things. And then when you get into a situation, maybe where God willing, some of those obstacles start to move, then you can revisit it and just know it's not too late. Because like I said, to me, I keep saying my story, my journey, there's an element of it that defies logic. It's not logical for somebody to go through the route that I've gone and got to the level that I've got to. There's no logic to it. So like I said, and I wasn't even somebody who was sat there sort of thinking, okay, when I was younger maybe it wasn't the right time, and then 26 was the right time. There's an element of, I'd say God used people around me to push me into that situation. So I'd say to that person, yeah, just don't let that dream die. Because it really isn't ever too late. I genuinely honestly believe that. And I wouldn't sit here and just empty words. That's not what I'm about at all. Yeah, that's a great advice. And the topic of once again, utilizing all the skills that you have, one thing which I definitely encourage people to do is think about how they invest in themselves. And you've had to make a lot of investments and a lot of sacrifices in order to now be in the UK. Remind me, is it the third fastest? Four fastest. Four fastest, seem to be third. Seem to be first. Yeah, or first. So with that said, tell us about, I guess, some of those sacrifices and investments that you needed to make to be where you are. I think, I mean, there's obviously, with everything, unfortunately, money makes the world go around as they say. So I think there was initial, initially probably the first big investment. I mean, money, I'd say. So obviously I used to be, when I first started the sport, I was with club coaches. So the club that I run for just have coaches that obviously give their time. So it's more of a charitable thing on their part. You pay a club fee, but it's nothing crazy. And I transitioned after a couple of years in the sport to like a professional private coach. And that was a significantly greater sum of money. And again, I look at it as an investment in track and field, but then it's also on the other side, a sacrifice because I'm taking that from the family pot of goals that my wife and I would have had and said, okay, hey babe, my contribution is gonna be X amount lower because I'm gonna invest in this thing. And I guess at the time, and this is what the tricky thing with investments is as well because it's not like I started making these investments at the level I'm at now where I know I'm one of the best in the world. I started making it when I wasn't even one of the best in my country. Probably not even one of the best in my region, but that's the nature of an investment. It really is. You know what I mean? Your worst beautiful is that you're talking about investments in terms of yourself, your body, your sport, but this is I guess a mentality with about investments that everybody should consider whether it's business or whatever it is that you're going into where it is a risk. Like you have to take that step to faith, do your research, hopefully make a good calculated risk, but it still is a risk. There's no promises, no guarantees at all. And another thing that you already just touched on as well. And I don't know if you like quite put the two together but every investment is a sacrifice. So in order for you to invest, you have to take out or somewhere else and then that's obviously what you've done for yourself. But Kia, could you tell us a little bit more about your investments? Yeah, so I think money is obviously the big one and just to touch on the risk side of it because I start investing and then get injured. And then it's like, well, I've just made this level of monetary investment and I actually can't even take advantage of the investment because I'm injured. So like you said, that's the nature of the investment. I think of course, having a family as well, it's almost like you said the sacrifice or the time element again, taking time away from family, pointing to the sport. Also my career progression is another one in terms of if, because I've got this sort of duality of being an accountant, being a sprinter, you can try to pursue both things to the absolute highest level, but at some point, something's going to break and it's gonna be you. That's a short story. Something's gonna break, it's gonna be you. So you have to, there's a balancing act to be done. So I think for me, could I have been further on in my career now? Had I not been pursuing track and field? Most likely. Could I be earning a bit more money in the corporate world? I mean, I earn good money, but could I be earning a bit more if I wasn't doing track most likely? But again, that's a decision, a sacrifice, an investment I've decided to make into the sport of track and field. When you have children, they grow so quickly. So when I go on a three week training camp or when I was at Worlds, it was a three week, so you have a holding camp and then you have the competition itself and then you come back, so that was a three week. You miss so much because they're so young, they develop so quickly, you come back and you think they're almost a new person. So of course you're talking to them, phase time and stuff like that, but it's not quite the same. So these are some of the things, but I took one of my training partners, it's an inspiration to me, his name's Felix String, he's a para athlete, he won in Tokyo, 2021. And we were speaking about some of the things that we feel separate, good from great or great from the greatest is, isn't talent or how hard you're working or any of the things that people might say, first off, it's actually what you're willing to sacrifice in our opinion, because there are certain people who are willing to go to a place that maybe you're unwilling to go. And I'm talking within the confines of the sport in my case and the legality of society before anybody misunderstands me. I'm not, again, we spoke a little bit about offline about I'm not willing to do anything it takes to succeed. I'm willing to do anything within the parameters that have been set out. But yeah, we spoke about, yeah, the thing that we feel really separates the greats is what they're willing to sacrifice, because everybody has a story I guess of things they've sacrificed. And to be honest, when people see us on the start line in my case, you may not necessarily really understand what it's taken for me to get to that point, other than if I get on a platform forum like this and speak a little bit about it. Is it fair to say, based on what you've just said to us, that if you want to be great, then you can't have it all? That's a good question. Because I'm somebody who feels like it's so funny because I was speaking to myself today, like, it's gear coming up, I want it. Ooh. But you're right, I think there's an element of, it's not so much that you can't have it all because it comes down to what your expectation is. So I've already, I expect that there'll be certain areas of my life that for a period or for a season, they may not be as fruitful as this area. But I'm ready for that. And I know how I'm gonna manage that and get through that with the people that I've got in my support network, et cetera. So I think you can have it all within reason. And to be honest with you, brother, is having it all even good for you. Do you know what I mean? Like one of the things that, one of my biggest prayers is, as we elevate and as I become more well-known and different things like that, because it's funny, I once upon a time, oh, I want to run sub 10, which is kind of a big deal in this world of track and field. I want to do that all without the things, like the fame and like partial celebrity status or whatever that goes with that. And then my training partners laughed at me and said, it's not possible for you to run that fast or to have such an achievement and not start to become known. But one of my prayers is I don't want to, like, and track and field isn't a big enough sport for this to ever happen. I don't think maybe it might happen. I don't want it to happen, but I can go to Tesco. I can go shops and okay, a couple of people might spot me and be like, oh, you're the accounting guy. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's me. But there's certain people that can't even leave their house. I can have people that beyond say, whatever, they can't do normal stuff. Because so I'm like, be careful about wanting it all because can you handle it all? And it's one of the things I say when people say, oh, do you wish you did it earlier? No, because maybe at a young age, showed a bit of talent, got a little contract, got a little money, I would have gone nuts. Maybe I wasn't mentally where I needed to be. The setup I had around me wasn't what it needed to be to allow me to thrive. Whereas when I did start being married, having worked in a corporate world for a few years, I was a lot more mature and I feel like I could handle a little bit better the rigors of all some of the pressures that come with elite sport. Yeah. What do you say is a common misconception that people have about you? About me? About you? That I'm an extrovert. Okay. And people, I think people's gonna laugh when they hear this, but anybody who knows me for way back, I was the kid who used to go to parties and I'd wanna stick with my mom or if people come around my yard, I'm trying to stay upstairs and not really come down to say hello. I remember my first day at secondary school and I went to secondary school, one of my really, really good friends and his brothers went there. So he just rocked out in the playground, 100 mile per hour playing football, just getting stuck in and I stood outside the gate, looking in at all the kids playing and I don't quite know how to introduce myself or go in. So I think one of the most common misconceptions is that I'm this extrovert. I have extrovert tendencies. I think over the years I've learned how to behave as an extrovert, but naturally at my core, I believe I'm an introvert. But like I said, it's gonna be controversial. I don't think people are gonna believe that. I don't know. So your story obviously being a, having your corporate career as an accountant and now being one of the fastest people in the world right now, that is quite a duality as you've already mentioned. Like how do you, I guess, juggle, like holding those two identities at the same time? It's crazy because I literally have to be both of those things. There are very few instances where I actually have to be both of those things. So if I'm training and work, I obviously know I'm training, but there are times where things that work might just become a bit crazy. So I'll literally mid-session pull out my laptop, jump on a team's cool AirPods in coach. I'm really, really sorry, but I've just got to step out. Cars in the car park and I'm gonna jump in. And I think for me, one of the ways that I handle it is not seeing these two things as things that are competing against each other. Just it is what it is. So if I need to literally wear both hats at the same time, I'll do that to the best of my ability. If I need to stop a training session and jump in a car and do a call, then so be it. I'll do that. So I think it can be a tough balance, but I very much celebrate it because when I'm on that start line, I think I've got a competitive advantage in that. A lot of athletes, that's their life. The outcome of that race could be food on the table for them. I mean, they might have a contract that stipulates certain, whereas at least right now, I'm not in that kind of situation. So I celebrate the fact that actually there are far more significant and serious things going on in my life than track and field. Amazing. So I can enjoy track and field. I can have fun with track and field. And I can celebrate the fact that just to try to count on who happens to find himself in the world of track and field, that's what I keep saying. And yeah, so I think that's probably the way I've just, my mindset towards it makes it, I don't want to say it's easy, but I don't really stop to concern myself about the difficulty, so to speak of juggling it. I'm just, that just get on with it. That makes sense. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you are, please make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube or wherever platform you're listening to this podcast on. Don't forget to like this video as well. I guess just to give my viewpoint on that as well, in terms of having been multifaceted, having different elements to you, it's been a struggle that I've had to myself. It's not easy to describe what it is that I do or who I am because I don't fit in the box similar to you or you've kind of got yours down nicely now as the world's fastest accountant. So I love that Brandon might have to come to your PR person at some point. Well, for myself, I guess I'm balancing, building this business, I'm balancing, sitting on different boards of different organizations and having my day job would be in a directive innovation. And sometimes it feels like, okay, because I can't easily describe what it is I am or things that I do, it almost feels difficult to make the most of everything that I've got in front of me. And that's been something that I struggled with. So you know what, let me even ask you, do you have any advice for me on that? I think everybody, you need to celebrate the fact that you have been gifted in such a way that you are able to do these things but not just do them, do them at a higher level. I think you need to celebrate and tap into that more. And I feel like once you get into a situation where you just accept that that's where you're at and actually it's a strength and not something to concern yourself, it's hard to do. Your results in terms of all the different fields you're in are gonna speak for themselves. And I think again, that's another thing that people concern themselves about. Don't worry about, like literally just be you, be great at what you're doing. And it will all speak for itself and celebrate the fact that you have all of those different things that you can, because at the end of the day it's just an expression of all the different elements of your character. So you're gonna learn different things from one of the different streams or one of the other streams. So continue to celebrate it, continue to go down that road of discovery. And you're just gonna create great, beautiful things that are gonna help people, bless people, encourage people and ultimately enrich you and your life. Yeah. Thank you. But I think as you were speaking, that even better question came to mind for me, which is I'm sure there's gonna be somebody who's listening or watching this right now. He's gonna say part of why they can't feel they can maximize all of their gifts and similar to you, like go to the grave empty is because they don't know what direction to go in because they're good at so many different areas. How can they maximize that? I think, again, we all have been dispensed the level of talent and the gifting. And I think for me, so of course, there's the academics, being able to go out there, become a qualified, tried accountant. And then of course I found myself in this track and field world. And I continue to excel as an accountant and excel at being a runner. And for me it's focusing in on the fact that those are the things that make you a legend. Those are the things that make you the goat of your own life. You're the goat of your own life. You're a legend of your own life. And when we focus on those different, because I think for us, the question I always say to people is you're not sure what direction to go to or if you're not sure, if someone's listening to you, they say, you know what? I don't even know what my talents are. What are the things that just make you smile without effort? What are the things that you find occupying most of your thoughts? What are the things that supposedly just seemingly just come really, really natural to you? What are the things that you've heard one of your friends or people around you say, oh, I wish I could do that. Oh, I find it, I wish that it was as easy as for me to do X as you. Those are the things you need to be looking at and those are the things you need to be stepping into. A lot of people want to look at, and we spoke about it a bit earlier about the cards, and their hand looks really, really good. I wish that was something that I could do, but there's one or two or just one thing or whatever that you're really good at. And I think if you take your eyes off of the things that you think you cannot do and start focusing on those areas that come natural and just feel right and you don't, then no real effort needs to come into it kind of thing, then you'll find kind of where you're meant to be at and then you can go down that path of discovery. So with what you're saying, there's almost an assumption that the things that you're good at are also the things that you enjoy or that you care about, and there's gonna be a lot of people out there who have these gifts and these talents that they're commercially viable, people think they want, people want this from them, but it might not be what you find any joy or passion in. What would, what does somebody do if they find themselves in that situation where they're talents that I guess their passion don't line up with each other? That's a good question. That is a very good question. I've heard people say, I've heard footballers talk about the fact that they're good at football and but they don't really enjoy it. But what they do enjoy is the lifestyle that it gives them. And I guess the material wealth that they're getting from it. So I guess if someone's in a situation where they feel like they've been gifted or something and for whatever reason there, level of passion towards it isn't quite the same, I would say what are the by-products of that talent? Is there something in what that talent produces that you enjoy? And it literally could be as simple as money. I'm able to monetize this thing. I like money. So you pursue it for that reason or you like talking to people. So maybe your talent allows you to relate to people and build relationships and collaborate and that kind of thing. Maybe that specific thing that you're good at, you may not necessarily enjoy it, but it gives you an opportunity to build and collaborate in such a way that you then end up doing off the back of something you're just good at but you don't necessarily enjoy as much, you then end up being able to do something that you actually genuinely enjoy. I don't call myself the world's fastest accountant but I wouldn't necessarily say joy is the first thing that comes to mind when I think about, okay, summarizing board reports or putting together a deck to explain how well the commercial division is done in my company or anything. I can't say I get excited about crunching numbers, smashing through Excel spreadsheets and formulas. I don't get excited about any of these things but what it does do is give me a certain level of income that allows me to pay my coach, that allows me to do things in the track and field world that I do enjoy. I think that's such a beautiful level of practicality because if I'm being real, I've coached many people, spoken to many people and the one to go the furthest, the one to be able to separate what needs to be done in order to accomplish what they really want and in reality, I think when sometimes we start a business or sometimes we pursue like a creative endeavor, et cetera, we get so swept up with, no, I need to enjoy every moment, I need to love every moment of this. That's just not the way life works. 100%. And like, we need money, we need those resources, we need those things in order to invest into the things that really do matter to us. And I think if we kind of develop the mindset of let me make my income or whatever you need from one area of my life so that you can invest it into the area that you want to eventually become your life, then that's when you get the results that you want and I feel like your answer practically gives people that example. Yeah, no, that's a beautiful way to sum it up as well. I think that's exactly it. There's one more idea or one more concept that you've spoken about to me, which I really do love and I just love to, I'd love you to share a little bit more on that with our audience, which is no one can beat you at being you. It's facts. What does that, what does it mean to you though? It's facts, nobody can beat you at being you. What it means is that when you're authentically yourself, when you're your truest self, nobody can replicate it. It's literally impossible. I mean, I think we live in a society of comparison and there's a scripture that speaks about comparison being the thief of joy and it genuinely really is. And the other thing that comparison does is it takes your eyes off of your own lane. And so for me, like I said, when I say nobody can beat you at being you, I'm encouraging people that there are things that are unique to you. There are things that only you can do, legit, genuinely, things that only you can do, the way you do them, the way you look at life, wherever it may be, that's unique to you. And these are things that you need to celebrate. And when you do that, when you pursue those things, you've really won. You've literally already won. So for me, at the end of the day, if I'm true to myself and I'm authentic and I've been honest with myself and I've pursued those things that are in my heart and my mind, I've already won. You know what I mean? And that literally is as simple as that. Yeah. Comparison being the thief of joy. I think that's an expression we have so much, but I don't think, I think really deep it, like just how true it is. Listen, so when we spoke offline, and I spoke about, and there'll probably be people listening who watch the ultimatum show in Netflix, rubbish show, but just something to watch. And it's just interesting because they go into this experiment and then the other people on the experiment and they swap styles. And then all of a sudden, some of these people just get a little bit lost in the source of, oh, well, this person does that what my... And they stopped appreciating things that has even got to them. They might have been with their partner for X amount of years and had good time. They don't think about any of that stuff because they're thinking, oh, well, oh, I'm sleeping with this guy and he don't snore, but my guy snores, or oh, she knows where she wants to eat when I ask her where we wanna go, but she's my, you know what I mean? And all of a sudden, now you're looking at your whole relationship as negative. And that's what we do in this society. In your life, have you ever struggled with comparison? And if yes, how did you get past that? Yeah, I think 100%, I didn't expect you to ask me that question. That's just like that. No, 100%, it's funny because I'm the type of guy, you'll see me, I'm obviously an optimist and I'm very forward. But no, for sure, I think even little things like not having a brother and having friends who had brothers and thinking, oh, what would that be like? Because I had two sisters. I love my sisters, by the way. But yeah, so I think, no, I think I have been in that situation. I'm trying to think what the most significant one I can think of. I mean, even in my track and field space and looking at, especially when you're injured and seeing people go to certain tournaments and achieve certain things that you believe that you can achieve too. But because you're injured, I can't do it right now. And it just makes you feel even worse about the situation that you're currently in. And those things I spoke about, about growing and it just doesn't happen because you're too busy just lamenting the fact that you can't do it too. So how did you get past that? I think have a good cry, you know? Let the emotions work their way through. I think that's the thing people miss sometimes, especially for somebody like me who's very like, go get a kind of person. You almost don't want to stop and let the emotions flow the way they need to, but it's only going to trip you up later on. So in terms of getting over those things, I think for me, yeah, stopping and feeling, letting those emotions work their way through and then when that's happened, allowing the people around you to also speak life back into you as well and help you out sometimes. You kind of just want to get through it yourself. You don't really want people to be getting involved. Without a doubt. No, no lie. I was not expecting an answer from you, but I think if I'm honest, I can't think of a better answer that you could have given because for a lot of us, especially men, like we're not often allowed that space even by ourselves or sometimes the world around us to, yeah, process those emotions, processes, things that we're feeling like, if you're disappointed, if you're angry, you're angry. If you're sad, you're sad. And I think allowing that space for yourself to really understand what it is that you're feeling, like feel it in that moment, let it and let it pass is so key to be able to move forward. So yeah, I think a lot of people are going to benefit from you sharing that. I hope so, bro. Okay, so I do want to say thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today. Thank you for having me. You have been a fantastic guest. Your accomplishments, they speak for themselves. I'm looking forward to which you become number one in the UK. Amen. And hopefully number one in the world. Amen. But what you've all said and done, then you keep on pushing. Thank you, brother. But before we do say goodbye to our guests, my final question to you is, who should I have my podcast in the future? I have an answer for you. Do you know Imani Simpson? I know Imani, yeah. Yeah, I think he would be an, I don't know if you've heard his story. Not fully. I've heard bits and pieces, but yeah. I think he has a very powerful story, particularly for the youth. But I think just generally, if you hear aspects of his story and somebody who almost lost his life and made a particular prayer. And you know, I think, yeah, I think Imani Simpson with all the work he does, you know, makes the short films and stuff. I think he would be a really, really good person actually. All right, Imani, we're gonna come for you next year. All right, bro. Thank you so much for staying. Thank you. Take care. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode. We release a new episode every Sunday. So make sure that you subscribe and follow us so that you never miss out. If you'd like some more inspiration while you wait for the next new episode, then check out the recommendation above. Don't forget to follow us on social media and you can send us a question or a dilemma that you'd like us to answer on the podcast. This is Clue Williams, you've been watching Behind the Dreams and we look forward to seeing you at the next Dream Nation event.