 There are quite a lot of conspiracy theories I have time for. Often elites really do collude to defend their own power by telling elaborate lies. But some conspiracy theories genuinely are quite silly. And when you're a Labour MP, you should really be careful that you have at least some evidence before alleging any sinister plot. This was Valerie Vaz on Politics Live. Dominique was at the right hand of the Prime Minister at the time. I remember the Prime Minister was in hospital for a while. Not quite at death's door that we were led to believe. But he was there, and I think it's quite important. Valerie, that's a extraordinary thing to say. Are you impugning the Prime Minister's integrity in that way? I think it's quite important that we don't forget the 127,000 people. I mean, really to say that, I think it is genuinely wrong, Valerie, to question how sick the Prime Minister was. He was in intensive care and very, very ill. And I think we shouldn't allow that to pass without comment. That was simply wrong to say that. Valerie, do you want to take back what you said? I mean, there's no evidence is there that Boris Johnson wasn't seriously ill. He was, or he was? I don't know. None of us were in the room. None of us, he was in intensive care, Valerie. Okay, so he was in intensive care. I don't know. I can't. I can't honestly. I'm not his doctor. But what's the point of saying that you're not sure? People have died. Dominique Cummings was at his right. And we're talking about Dominique Cummings giving evidence, aren't we? We are. So where you seem to imply that perhaps the Boris Johnson... When the Prime Minister was in intensive care. And I don't know. I mean, honestly, I don't know. But that's not the issue. The issue, he was there and running the government and he will have made judgment calls with or without the Prime Minister at the time. And yeah, quite frankly, the Prime Minister was actually left there. It was left to carry Simons to alert the medics to look after the Prime Minister. But that's not the point. Why are you making it, Valerie? That's the right hand of the Prime Minister at the time making important decisions. And he was there. There are 127,000 people who have died. Absolutely. Then why are you making the point? You know, she had no evidence for it. She admits she's like, I'm not his doctor. You know, who am I to say? I kind of think British politics needs more of this because it does make it way more insane. It's a very Trumpian thing to do. It's to put out this crazy theory, which is that Boris Johnson wasn't actually that sick. And the reason he went to ICU, I presume, reading into our argument, because I assume the conspiracy theory here, is that he went to ICU and pretended to be really sick to generate some public sympathy for him because he fucked up COVID. I mean, it is completely implausible because Occam's razor, which is to say the simplest explanation is probably the best one. The simplest explanation here is definitely that he kind of overweight and he got COVID-19. Not that there was this elaborate plan which involved all of these nurses in guys in St Thomas's Hospital to pretend that he needed to go to ICU when he didn't. But Ash, what do you think about this? I rate Valerie Vaz for going, you know, she said it and then she's challenged it. Do you have any reason to say that? She's like, I don't know. I'm not his doctor. Who am I to say? I'm not his doctor. But, you know, questions have to be asked. But Michael, you always like people who just say shit. Like, that's your favourite genre of politician. It makes much better TV. Is just say some shit and let the chips fall where they may. Whereas I personally, I like my conspiracy theories to at least have, if not a shred of actually existing evidence, at least Valerie tell us that you played a Black Sabbath record backwards and it said Boris Johnson faked it, something like that. Just some crumb of, you know, imagined connection or causality. That's all I'm asking for. I mean, look, I think that what this speaks to is an unfortunate tendency amongst Labour MPs to snatch a negative headline out where they could have had a positive one. Here is an open goal, which is a former ally of the Prime Minister really going in on him for his handling of the pandemic. And instead of joining in and saying, yeah, this confirms what we knew all along, Valerie Vaz decides instead to step on a rake on national TV. And she's just like, seeing that segment unfold, it is like sideshow Bob just again and again walking into it. She can't just go, yeah, you know, I tried that. She has to go, I'm just asking questions, just raising it. But I'm not making that point. Somebody else is making that point. They pulled the string on my back and now I am incapable of saying anything other than maybe the Prime Minister wasn't at death's door. And obviously, you know, when you have a very, very ill Prime Minister, it's a useful moment politically because it provides a kind of buffer for criticism. For that time, people did have to tread carefully about how hard they were going on the government's handling of the pandemic because you couldn't look opportunist when the Prime Minister might be gravely ill and indeed his life could have been hanging in the balance. We didn't know how severe or not it was at the time. So of course that was something which was, you know, I think taken advantage of by senior people within the Conservative Party, by cabinet ministers. But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. You know, it just meant that, well, okay, as well as being something that's dreadful for us because our main guy is in the ICU, it also gives us a bit of a breather because he did really fuck up the handling of the pandemic.