 Thanks for being here to listen to me, thanks to Christoph Petos who invited me and to Stephen Nancy and the organizers and volunteers who have set this all up. I should say before I go on that actually I'm pretty jet lagged and at midnight last night I woke up in a terrible panic thinking that it was midday and I'd slept through my alarms. Also, I can't see properly because I read swing this morning at 6 o'clock and the chlorine reacted with my eyes. I'm also getting deaf because I can't get the water out of my ears and I gave myself a few nasty cuts while shaving this morning so I hope the cleaning staff don't feel the need to call the police feeling that it's been a bloodbath in my hotel room. So I'm not entirely the perfect physical specimen I try to be. So with those coming outside to do me, I'm genuinely honoured to be speaking here. It's really a pleasure for me and that would make it a real shame if I upset anyone with anything I have to say but I'm afraid that I might and I'm going to use some words that polite people don't like to use especially in this industry and talk about some unpalatable concepts and say what I think are some hard to swallow truths. So before spilling everyone's morning with my talk, let me introduce myself. I'm Daniela Prachida. I live in Cardiff in Wales and I work at Divio. I work remotely for Divio of Zurich in Switzerland and I am one of the core development team of Django. So I work for Divio. It's a small Swiss company. They're extremely active in the world of Django. They both have enthusiastic users and supporters of it and I work on Django CMS which many of you probably are familiar with and on something called Aldrin which is our cloud-based platform for Django CMS sites. And I honestly have to say that I couldn't ask for a better job. It's a super company to work for. And the work they want me to do is the work that I really love doing which actually includes speaking at events like this because part of my work is to liaise with the open-source development community behind projects like Django CMS and of course Django itself. And if I may quickly say so, Divio is hiring. Have a look at our website, divio.ch, remote and on-site positions in Zurich. So please come and talk to me afterwards if you're at all interested about any of that. As I said, the other thing I am is one of the Django core developers and I still can't quite get over the fact that I was invited to join that team. And, you know, right now I could hardly be happier with where I find myself in my work. So the question I ask myself quite a lot sometimes is how did I get here? I'm actually a slightly unusual programmer I think by most people's standards because I didn't even start as a programmer until about five years ago when I was already 39 years old and had had a couple of different careers, neither of which had anything whatsoever to do with programmer. And I'm not even a very good programmer or software developer. I'm slow, inefficient, inexperienced and fumbling and I have to work twice as hard doing mostly poor work in order to do the same things that other people can do in a much better than I can. So when I look back at what it took me to get here, what I see in my review mirror is hard work and a lot of it. It wasn't easy, but it's amazing to be here now. It's great that it paid off. It's wonderful that it all worked out. I'm delighted that the things I've worked on have turned out well and I'm enjoying every bit of it. And the final reward for it is recognition in, for example, this fantastic job that I like so much. My invitations to speak, to participate, even the congratulations that people offer. So it's extremely nice to feel you deserve something and to be told that you do. Can you just please raise your hand if you feel that your successes have been due to your hard work? Yeah, okay. It is a very good feeling to feel that you deserve your success. And I think I have an extremely healthy capacity for recognizing merit where it's due, especially when it's my own. I want to say there's some small but, that small part of my consciousness is available to ask. And that is, do I? Do I really deserve this? And when I think about that in all honesty, the answer is yes, actually I do. Because I have worked extremely hard and I've managed to do things that a few years ago I wouldn't even have imagined doing. And I honestly do think that I deserve the successes and rewards and I think the same goes for your successes and rewards and the successes and rewards of other people following their hard work. But there's still another but and it's this and it's the key. Even when we get what we deserve, it's not always because we deserve it. In other words, just because we've worked hard doesn't mean that it's actually the reason for our success and I think that certainly applies in my case. So for the sake of argument let's accept that hard work is at least a part of it. But what else do I have? What else do we have going for us? What actually is this recipe for success? Well let's admit that hard work's there. But also education, I've been lucky enough to have a fantastic education. I've been to good schools, good universities which I didn't even have to pay for because that's the kind of society I live in. Good teachers and parents who care very deeply about my education. I have intelligence or let's say at least well functioning powers of analysis, synthesis and comprehension. I have excellent social skills. I know how to get along with all kinds of people, make good impressions, behave appropriately in different situations. I'm comfortable in most of them. I have the imagination required to function well in creative and problem solving work. I've had excellent employers actually who have been willing and able to support me in my work. Sorry if I've hit them on one there, haven't I? My excellent employers. I've got self-confidence, partly as a result of some of these other things that I have. Here's one that might not occur to you. I have English as a first language. Now most people here in this room have English as a first language but that's not the case in our industry generally. I say that 90% of the people that I meet in this sector are not native English speakers. So it takes me zero extra effort to read documentation or speak with colleagues or speak to you. I don't have to do any extra work and the other thing is that my colleagues then praise or congratulate me for having a gift for communication. Well, that's quite easy when you're doing it in your native language. So I'm always at an advantage there. I have good health. It's hard to be successful when you're too ill to work. I have no disabilities. Daily life is never a struggle for me nor do I have to deal with other people's prejudices or assumptions about it. Try being successful when you don't look normal. I have no excessive burdens. I don't have to look after other people. I have done and I know what that entails and I know that the people who do have excessive burdens simply sink from view when it comes to success. I have a safe place to live. No walls, no disease, no floods, violence, corruption, no danger that all my efforts in work could be swept away arbitrarily. In fact, where I live is so safe that if I did become ill, if I did, God forbid, lose my health, I live somewhere where there is free medical care to sustain me. So I won't have to, for example, start cooking illegal drugs and sending them to gangsters like on a documentary television I saw. So I probably share most of these with most of you in some measure or another. You know, we are all different, but I suspect that you too could tick those boxes. And I'm sure we can come up with others, but I think you get the idea. So in other words, we're well equipped for success. It would be more remarkable if I were not successful because, in a way, I've been too well equipped to fail. Succeeding is the least I could do, and not succeeding would be like being rowed across a lake in a safe and comfortable boat with everything I needed and completely dedicated to my well-being and then drowning because I couldn't be bothered to swim the last 10 meters to shore. So if we accept that these things I've just talked about are the things that bring us success, where do they come from and to what are they owed? And I think the answer is that they are gifts, all of them. I was given those things. I did not work for them. I didn't earn them. I didn't struggle to attain them or achieve them against the odds. I didn't achieve them at all. In each case, they were given to me. They were provided to me by someone else, whether parents, teachers, schools, my society. And so we come to that L-word that nobody likes to hear. It's not a word that's used in Polite Company and to avoid causing offence, I could just say that it begins with L and rhymes with fuck. But I'm going to have to say this bad word a lot so you might as well get used to it, that all you need is luck. And the truth is that I've had a lot of luck and you have had a lot of luck and I am here and you are here because we are, because we have been lucky. We are successful because we are lucky and we are rewarded for our luck. Okay, but I don't want to leave you with an argument that just sounds plausible when you hear it and then in the cold light of day starts to fall apart when you reflect on it later. So I want to show you that I'm prepared to go into this a little bit more deeply. There are important nuances and qualifiers and all this that can't possibly go through all of them but let's just briefly consider a few things to show that it stands up to some scrutiny. So, for example, setbacks. Of course, being lucky doesn't mean that everything is simply granted to you that it's plain sailing easy. Most of you, like me, I am sure, have had to overcome setbacks or even failures because success is not guaranteed even to the lucky. In my case, for example, a few years ago, I decided to become a high school teacher and I gave up quite a lot to do that and I was full of high hopes and determination and it wasn't a very successful experience so we can call it a severe disappointment. It did not last very long and that was a hard time and my lucky gifts, however many of them I was able to enumerate for you were simply not enough to make it a real success and by definition a real setback I think is one that you simply don't bounce back from, recovering from a genuine setback like that was for me is a struggle and your lucky gifts won't make that easy. Similarly, whatever lucky gifts you have been given, everyone has limitations and sometimes you have to work extra hard to get around your limitations or work around them, find different approaches to your problems or sometimes find ways to turn your limitations to your advantage. So in my case, I'm a rather poor programmer as I said, I have a weak and hazy understanding of many key programming concepts I have to spend much of my time reading and rereading documentation, asking people for explanations and then having other people explain those explanations to me. At the time I've painfully made my way to comprehension, I'm actually in a position to write a better explanation of what I've just learned, one that even people like me can make sense of more quickly. So I'm certainly not a member of the Django core team because I'm a better developer than other people because God help us all, if that were the case. But one of the reasons I am is that actually I can write better documentation, I can improve it and that's because of the perspective that my limitations have given me. Or another example, when I approach a problem, the solutions, the programming solutions are not obvious to me. I choose all the wrong ways at first but that means that the problem that I need to solve for the person, for the user who needs a problem solved always remains at the center of my perspective. I'm not distracted by tools and methods and techniques. It's the problem itself that has to stay at the center of my thinking because the tools and methods and techniques don't come naturally to me. And that has served me well. So again finding ways to turn your limitations to your advantages is not easy, it requires work and it's not a skill that everyone has. And of course, hard work. Please don't think that I am saying that hard work doesn't matter, of course it does. Even if it's not sufficient for success, it's still almost always necessary. And if I had not worked hard, I wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be here if you hadn't. People do have to work hard, even the ones with older free and lucky gifts. But let's take each of these three points seriously. They're recovering from setbacks, dealing with limitations and the necessity for hard work, respectively don't seem to involve luck. Well, the resilience to recover from setbacks so the recovery from setbacks requires resilience. But where does that come from? Is resilience of our own making? I think the fact is that if you're not already equipped to recover, you won't recover. If I wasn't equipped to recover from serious setbacks and I simply would not and my resilience was not conjured up out of nowhere by me, it was invested in me by other people in exactly the same way that for example, my social skills were invested in me by other people, by my surroundings by what I was given. So resilience to recover from setbacks is itself another lucky gift and the resourcefulness that makes it possible to turn a limitation to our advantage is also another lucky gift. It's only acquired because someone else in the education system or some social order made it their business to ensure that we had that resourcefulness. Our having it is not our own doing. And finally, do you think that working hard is simply a matter of having the will to work hard? I don't think it is. I think that working hard requires knowing how to work hard. Now by nature my inclination is to and enjoy myself. I had to be taught to work hard and I think it's deeper than that. I had to be able to work hard depends upon knowing how to work hard just like being able to play chess depends on knowing how to play chess. It's something we have to learn something that has to be taught inculcated in us. I was born knowing how to work hard and I don't think it's natural. I'm a hard working person thanks to the painful efforts of other people parents and teachers again that I was lucky to have who could teach me and show me by example and by doing all of me as my children say what it means how to do it, how to work hard. So yes it's us it's up to us to work hard but being able to work hard knowing how to work hard knowing what it means is itself another lucky gift. So even hard work is not truly our own I don't think. So here's our lucky gifts and we can add resilience and resourcefulness to them and even hard work is not simply a matter of just working hard. Okay what do other people think? This is typical and it's amazing how often people think there is a secret success other than hard work and I've got 300 or 400 pages of Twitter slides to show you on this subject and so on. There's more. Do an image search if you like for the terms hard work and success or a video search you'll find all kinds of things that are exactly in this mold that success equals hard work. Success is the result of hard work. Hard work is the guarantee of success. You'll find some descent sometimes a little nuance or qualification but not that much and people really do believe this. They really do take this seriously. So here's a good one I want to mention briefly. I found a TED talk by somebody called Richard St. John who I've never heard of him but it was one of the first things at the top of a web search he's an entrepreneur, a millionaire he's won all kinds of rewards and he writes books about the eight things successful people have in common and that sort of thing. He has a black belt in judo and runs marathons and climbs mountains. He probably wears his bears at the top of mountains with Vladimir Putin you know so and here's a really popular TED video called Riot Pays to Work Hard and it's really just popular and people are lapping this stuff up they love it and he tells us after interviewing 500 over 500 very successful people that hard work is a secret of success. Trust me he says I've interviewed over 500 successful people not one of them said it came easy well no shit What exactly did he expect them to say did he think they might say I have to admit the secret of my success that I was in the right place at the right time and made friends with the right people and had the right kind of education and the right kind of natural talents and the right kind of parents and the right kind of face and went to the right kind of school and had the right kind of health because that would be a surprise if that's what they want to say that would be worth a TED talk so I didn't want but this kind of lured faturity of these six ghastly minutes in his TED talk because I find it rather hard to stomach and in each case it's clear that he's talking about someone who alongside their admittedly Herculean Herculean hard work which by the way was only possible because they didn't have other burdens to attend to and with people who have been generously provided lucky gifts and abundant quantities so there's this top independent Wall Street analyst who says he thinks about investments 24 hours a day, 7 days a week well guess who's not looking after a disabled child or sick parent guess who doesn't have to worry about the health or fragility of his own body that much and he talks Richard St John about how enjoyable all this hard work is, how much fun how amazing, how extremely astounding the well-paid labour in the most comfortable possible surroundings labour that's valued and recognised and congratulated and richly rewarded should be found enjoyable what a surprise and so on and I really don't want to be personal about this but what I would love to ask him and the other 500 smug faced facile self mythologising congratulating and complacent very successful people is if you're so hardworking how is it that your thinking is so unbelievably lazy I don't know of and I don't know any successful person who has not had generous helpings of lucky gifts and on the other hand there are plenty of people who despite vast quantities of hard work will never attain success there are people who work harder, for longer in nastier jobs than I could ever dream of doing and will never enjoy anything like success in that work and no matter how many extra shifts you work for pittance doing unpleasant and underroading labour that will never be fun you will never achieve very much doing it you will never be successful if hard work were the secret of success the most successful people on the planet would be women living in sub-Saharan Africa not top independent wall street analysts and if you want to know the real secret of success you would gather useful evidence by interviewing 500 hugely successful people and swallowing whatever they have to say because the evidence is in plain sight everywhere in the lives of a hundred people and not thousands of millions but billions of people and it's pretty inescapable I think that hard work is not the secret of success the secret of success is luck I'm going to skip a few slides actually just so that you don't have to listen to me too much if I can find my right side I'm just going to skip a little bit about failure you can probably work some of that out for yourselves here we are so let's say failure if you are lucky it's quite hard to fail only really bad luck will dent your success only really bad work or behavior will bring you down if you've got time in the talks ask me about that afterwards because I've got an unpleasant anecdote to tell you and if you're lucky failure matters less in the end anyway as it did for me I wouldn't necessarily call my teaching career failure but it wasn't a success and it certainly wasn't a permanent failure anyway what does this mean for us because I've spoken for 25 minutes and I haven't really come on to us yet so this applies especially to our pathway industry and also to us in the world of Django for these reasons our industry believes very deeply in this mythology this ideology rather of success and hard work people in the industry the successful ones and also the ones who are not yet successful the ones trying to be really do believe that it's a meritocracy where their hard work grants success and our industry is a very influential one its ideas, its values its attitudes and practices are noticed and emulated by others and other industries our industry determines how people live we are building the world that the rest of the world has to live in increasingly so what we build and the way it works is going to reflect our ideals and values our industry is not working very well for the many who are to live in it its exclusive and lacks diversity it disadvantages the less lucky compounding their ill luck while insisting to them that it's a meritocracy and what they need to do is work harder its infatuation with this notion of hard work harms even many of the lucky and the successful 80 hour weeks however much you earn is not good for you and this is why burnout and exhaustion and depression are a real problem in this industry so its I think a dangerous lie in other words our industry believes in a dangerous harmful lie that obscures an important truth about success and in failing to recognize the world that luck plays in our industry and our success in that industry we risk allowing that industry to harm us and to harm the rest of the world and I think it's really a very effective lie it's a brilliant one because it covers up its own tracks it focuses attention on the individual and what they have to do away from the conditions that made the individual and under which the individual must work it makes it easy for the successful to rewrite the history of their success and not worry about what gave them that success it makes it easy for them to fail to see what's holding back others it makes it easy for people who are trying to succeed to believe that they have to do it entirely on their own and it makes success into an exclusive club forcing people on the outside to sacrifice themselves doing useless things in the attempt to get into the club now of course I quite like exclusive clubs especially when I'm a member and being a member of an exclusive club I have to admit doesn't just make me feel good it makes me feel better than other people which is great I do know that that's natural but it's not very good it's not right it's unjust and it's untrue but it's really seductive and this lie is really seductive whether you're on the right side of it somebody said something very helpful to me he said well when I was talking about this what happens to responsibility in your picture of things doesn't that fall out of the picture actually I think that it doesn't fall out of the picture I think that we have to find a different place a proper place for individual responsibility in this a place where it can make sense not be fetishized not be part of a dangerous lie and it makes room for a new kind of responsibility collective responsibility there's actually more responsible there's more burden of responsibility on us not less this is not an abrogation of individual responsibility it's an acknowledgement that we are responsible for others responsible to the world we are a part of so what does this have to do with Django specifically well we and I mean the Django community want to be an inclusive club when anyone can join and participate in we want it to be possible to be successful while being Djangoists and this is built into Django's ethos so the problems that I've spoken about are problems for the Django project Django right now is being affected by these problems by this ideology you can trace them right back to this ideology of work and success in order to be contributors to Django to participate in the project to be engaged people need to have at least a little energy and time to spare but we're losing valuable people in the project even in the core team through burnout and exhaustion, frustration and dismay we're losing contributors who give up because they've tried to get into this club of participation and have their work acknowledged and so on and have failed and we're losing them we're failing to gain new contributors because some of the barriers are too high for people who are not already on the inside and we remain horribly undiverse and we failed to gain new contributors and new ideas and new approaches from people who are not like the people who are already in the club so the exclusive general club is not some hip new jazz club in town it's what we are in a danger of becoming I'm a member of the Django core team what do you think we talk and think about the carpets or the new lasers for our island hideaway the bunker in the middle of the sea or do you think we talk about fiendishly complex aspects of the ORM that no one else could possibly understand well actually no, what we talk about what we mostly preoccupied with is the Django community especially of late questions of inclusivity how can we gain more participation how can more people contribute, feel that they're a part of it how can we make Django better by having a healthier community and what we're most worried about is that committing to Django a successful part of this project is more difficult than it ought to be for many people even in the on the website for this conference now I'm not criticizing this because of course it was entirely well intentioned but it was unfortunate somebody referred to the core team as the god, this is your chance to meet the god, the core team, the gods of Django so we were a bit shocked because that's not how we see ourselves absolutely it's not how we want anyone to see us or what we're doing, that's not what we are we're the caretakers of the community and that's the kind of idea that's out there that's the kind of barrier that's being raised even if people don't realize it so in a way actually it's quite useful that was posted onto the website because there you are it highlights a problem for us that we need to deal with so he's our friend I'm Eric Augustine he's one of the core developers and he's recently been trying to lead some changes now what's interesting that he has very different political ideas from me he's probably quite sick of hearing me talk about ideology although he's much too polite to say that but he agrees with me that we are hurting or our project is being hurt by ideas about work and successful participation that aren't for many people who aren't already lucky enough to be part of it really true and one of the things he said when I was talking to him he wanted to expose the hidden power structure within Django so that we can do something about it so that's interesting the hidden power structure maybe he doesn't think he's got an ideological analysis but perhaps he doesn't know what realizing it so have a look it's on the development documentation so it's not yet gone into a Django release but he has done a lot of work in the last months to rewrite some of that to reset the tone to reset expectations with the hope of bringing more people in and lowering some of these barriers to success and participation and it's the kind of thing that we in the core team are really concerned about so we're really grateful to Eimeric for this hard work it's really reassuring to me to know that even though as I say we're very politically different we are thinking on the same lines when it comes to this why should you care about any of this you're probably pretty lucky already otherwise you're sitting downstairs in a nice hotel in a nice town with a nice computer in front of you and all this stuff why do you need to care about this Django is not just a bit of software it's also a community of software users it has an ethos and one of the main principles of that ethos is that participation engagement and success with Django should not be reserved for a lucky few ethos was built into it and it's a way to make sure that the developers and the founders it's expressed in for example Django's outstanding documentation that successfully achieves its aim of lowering a barrier to entry the documentation I think expresses consideration and respect for even the most novice newcomers to Django so that's quite an interesting thing and I think it's a great thing to do in the project on our email lists in our IRC channels on our ticket tracker where communication is friendly, courteous and helpful it's expressed in the codes of conduct which govern the conference events like this one and the actual conduct of people at these events which is welcoming, inclusive and friendly and I don't know if it's real or not something else because the amount of extra brilliance I've been given by Django and its community can't be overstated just that was one of the luckiest choices I've made in my life and I made it because I thought the website was a nice color basically I wrote a 52 page document from my manager rationalizing it but I think that was the real reason we should care because I think nobody wants to live in communities for the privileged only or in the burning towns of communities in the burning towns of communities whose unlucky populations have lost patients so it does matter for us and what can we do about it we want more people to be more successful we want them to be active and engaged, satisfied rewarded participants in our community in our industry, in our world what can we do about it well it's a tornado it's not something let's not focus on the individual none of these things are things that we as individuals can do these are the responsibility as shared what can we do to make more people lucky to give them more lucky gifts well we can be the good employers and collaborators people need we can share our skills we can help people develop the self confidence they need to participate effectively we can be a part of this in small ways but mostly this I think is a wider and deeper political aim it can't be the responsibility of individuals it requires a shift in our collective thinking about success and the role that luck plays in it but we can only do our bit everyone who's giving out a talk at an event like this where they share something they know we can do our bit to pass on their luck to other people I do my own bit as Russell said I'll be running a little tutorial on the first day of the sprints called don't be afraid to commit if you want to participate in contributing to Django but don't know how to get started come along to that we can make luck matter less we try to do this already and with fewer lucky gifts has to leap we write our documentation for the non-native English speaker we lower the barriers to participation we try to make different routes available into participation in Django so you don't have to be a top flight programmer to make a useful contribution and we want people who are not top flight programmers to be making useful contributions there's more than one way to be a successful person and we recognize that some people don't fit so neatly into our industry as others and for example our codes of conduct are intended to ensure that they're not made to feel too uncomfortable to be there and another thing we can do is to change what success actually means so for example our friend Richard St. John of that talk managed to interview over 500 very successful people but neither he nor they seem to have considered the possibility that for example thinking of finance 24 hours a day 7 days a week is actually a pretty shit way to spend your time yeah and that when you're spending your life working 80 or more hours a week that's not a life that's really worth aspiring to however much it earns because something else is missing from it some people talk like that our reaction should be to laugh in a kind of embarrassed horror not to applaud them for their crazy quantities of hard work this is Alexei Stakhanov he was a minor in the Soviet Union he was a hero of socialist labor in 1935 he set an extraordinary record of 227 tons of coal in a single shift it's an astounding quantity that no one could match and it demonstrated the superiority of the communist production systems so the Stakhanovite movement was a huge propaganda tool for the Soviet Union this is how the system works this is how we work this is communist labor those who opposed this movement were called now he was upheld as the model for workers to follow people were awarded all kinds of medals for huge amounts of production and so on but in fact all kinds of things made it possible for him to achieve this record like being given the best teams to work with the best tools the best seam of coal to work on and apparently having other miners production quantities counted in his own which kind of helps and here again is an impossible ideal for other workers to measure their success against and it's what we're seeing here in our industry it's ideologically motivated propaganda we are facing a modern day Stakhanovite movement in which the Soviet methods have been replaced by individual hard work but the effects are similar though of creating exclusive clubs making it hard for people to succeed making it easy for people to drive themselves in the ground in the attempt to do so so I would say don't be beguiled by this lie and don't worship propaganda heroes whether they're Soviet miners or Wall Street analysts be aware that success depends on lucky gifts whether it's your own or other people's and share your lucky gifts and don't be afraid to demand that other people share theirs too so thank you very much for listening to me I'm Daniela Prachida you can email me if you want to get in touch I'm organizing DjangoCon Europe next year in June 2015 which will be held in Cardiff Wales you are all cordially invited to come you can come talk to me about that in fact if you'd like to talk to me about anything if you'd like to talk to me about Divya or the jobs or about the core team or about don't be afraid to commit or the sprints or Soviet miners talk to me because you're a mutant DjangoCon and you don't have anyone else to talk to please come and talk to me I'll be really pleased to talk to you thanks very much for listening to me thank you very much Daniela we've already got time for a couple of questions if anybody's keen on a question or two I'll throw one out here just to get the ball rolling because if anyone knows for me no one ever gets out of a room that I'm in without a question and there's a backstory so come and talk to me if you want to talk about that one of the reasons I posit that that success is measured in this way is because it's easy to measure for example people historically people have become members of the core team because they have contributed a lot of tickets or they have posted a lot of messages to Django developers and that is something that they're only able to do because of the the luck they've had to have the free time to have the expertise to have all the other factors that you've posited there and that's probably the reason that it's become the thing that we use to judge whether someone becomes a member of the core team is fundamentally because it is something that can be measured it is a quantifiable that number is larger than someone other's number what do we replace that with what other metrics can we use that aren't based upon sheer quantity of contribution that take into account some of the luck factors that other people may not have I mean that's just thank you for asking me such an easy question to answer you know because really I think if I had a very good answer for that I would have spent some of the last 45 minutes giving you that answer and I don't really know I think that we have to keep talking and no I think that we the core team have to keep listening the community have to keep talking and we have to hear your complaints and frustrations and sometimes people get frustrated and express their frustration for example on the Django developers list about their work and how it's been ignored and this is a closed shop and so on and I'll tell you what my natural instinct is fuck off asshole because that's how exclusive clubs work and these reactions are really dangerous we must be aware that they are natural reactions and we have to look at what's happening and you know think with humility you know I'm Eric I'm Eric has the gifts that could be forgiven if he were supremely arrogant with those gifts but he's not actually he's undertaken a very humble piece of work and he's really to be applauded for that and I think that's the kind of thing we're doing I think there's no single thing there's no one single answer there's no heroes going to come and solve this that's the whole point there are no heroes it's a little patchwork of effort that everyone has to take part in thanks again I'm sorry we're up against the break so thanks again