 That's about it for some plus CV Africa. We head straight to a second conversation right here in what could be best described as a major milestone and significant boost ahead of the commencement of port operations like a deep-sea port. On Friday took delivery of three STS cranes and ten rubber-tired granites and also witnessed the arrival of the vessel to Beth at the port. The cranes and the RTG equipment will be used in the container terminal which will be operated by the lekkie free trade uh you know free port terminal. The vessel left Shanghai China on May the 17 2022 and arrived at the lekkie deep-sea port at about noon Nigerian time on the 1st of July 2022. Would you have a guest joining a conversation this morning? He'd be very but manual. He's an entrepreneur and investor. It's good to have you join us. Thank you. All right we probably seem to be having some feedback from your end but I'm hoping that that can be sorted as we proceed in the course of the conversation. But what do you make of all of this development with the lekkie deep-sea port and the free uh the lekkie free zone? Well it's it's indeed the welcome development for us as um as Nigerians because um our seaports have over the years become very much um incompetent. They've not been competitive for quite a long time. Going to the algae life span that they were built with. If most of those ports we have in Nigeria had stayed beyond the 100 years and every project that had lived as long as that would definitely make it enrich it. That's why we find out that the revenue that have been accrued so people have actually no dive over the years. So if the port coming on stream sometime later this year first quarter of next year is a welcome momentum for us as investors. Okay but you know those who actually reside I mean we're talking about residents of this area now in a complaining of the roads we're talking about access road to the seaport and the fact that apart from the deep seaport you have older businesses in this axis so you have the dangote you know refinery and all the businesses around it. Number one on the least concern is that there are several consensus regards you know congestion and norther is the fact that the road is not motorable. Access road to this uh sport is not motorable so do you still think that this is a welcome development? Well it's um overall it's a welcome development because um it's obviously going to improve on our intelligent revenue of Nigeria and it's going to improve on the index for doing business in Nigeria because most businesses would have made a deep call to other neighboring countries like western African countries and central African countries like Ghana, Togo, Pennery, Portugal and the lots so with this seaport coming on stream it's definitely going to impact positively but from the structural point of view and the people living around that environment being plagued they would definitely get a backlash of such an investment because such investments are properly thought through and you should ordinarily would be situating such an investment in the developing area that has a very good um uh what do you call road network. I think that's part of the problems that uh their papa and the thinker is currently uh faced with whereby where the weather are now fully grown fully built up and it's now a major beam of concern to to residents around the neighborhood but from a global point of view from an investment point of view and from the federal government point of view meaning they would have had they it's going to be a fantastic thing of them because generating revenue but from the point of view of the residents around Lagos and around the west generally they will be having a boom with business related activities and it comes with its own negative and the negative it will come in with would be such negatives as around um um for for infrastructures and um they weren't you know such infrastructures so it's going to be a major ask from people living in Lagos to have to contend with a third major support and sort of a support that would most likely attract a mob of other business related activities from the west and central african countries back into the 90s so it will come with its own attendance at cost because pretty soon when this has all right but moving forward i mean uh a lot of Nigerians in different parts of the country have acted differently and some people are saying they congesse you know the Lagos ports and the populate Lagos that's you know the arguments right here uh that would actually be a solution some people think that with all of the concentration on Lagos it renders all other ports across different parts of the country useless and non-functional absolutely absolutely i tell you one of those school of thoughts that feels strongly that um the over concentration of the seaports and the ports related activities in Lagos it's obviously counterproductive to not just Lagos to the country as a whole because you're looking at infrastructural layout that Lagos would be subjected to it's huge it's huge and it it's not feasible for that to happen immediately because it's funds related and even if the funds were to be available it will take the Lagos state government and the federal government a couple of years to be able to achieve that okay so let's get straight to it now we're talking about uh you know lekkie deep sea ports how operation and all the you know deep sea ports across the country yeah um we think we from the investors foreign point of view we think um it's good development but i think the federal government needs to spread its um search and its investment to drive towards um um drive process in other parts of the country because if investments are not that diverse for the country you'll find out that there will be a clock and when there is a clock states like Lagos would begin to suffer because structural um were adhered to suffering and the government would obviously not be able to achieve its set of codes you know and for as much as possible right from um the year 1912 when the protocol seaport was um um came into existence as far back as that it just took it to Lagos about three years of four years for them to come on stream with the Lagos and Papa and the thinker they think that behind such investment and behind such direction thought that there was a need for them to displace the port operation in the country for if not to have the kind of effects that we're suffering and of course from the investment point of view we think that should be revisited and that should be looked at thoroughly because in a case like river states you have two three seaports and out of the three seaports they're doing like 40 percent of their capacity or you have a case in Lagos where the seaports in Lagos are doing as much as 150 to 200 percent of its install capacity that's why you see the problem around the grid logs in river things in Lagos as against what you have in Lagos in rivers so what the Lagos what the um port authorities simply needs to do is to pay attention to the other seaports like Potacos and see how they could grab them up to 100 percent then you find out that the the development and the growth of businesses in the country would become diverse and they become more will become more efficient in doing business because most businesses most of our businesses the challenge we have is the fact that we're all plugged up in one little space called Lagos so with this one now with this entry the commissioning of the negative seaport is even going to make that same situation even worse the way it is that's basically what it is so but for us we think it's a welcome development but we still think the federal government need to do more by dispersing the investment around the country for efficiency because for every investor what comes to mind first is what's going to be my turnaround time if my turnaround time is going to be too long then I begin to think about that's why you find out that different different investors are rather making use of around um then a republic and gana and gana because we find out that the turnaround time is shorter if they go through that route even if it seems that they will still use that same route to come back into Nigeria but they still prefer it because they feel they turn around the short so if the federal government now feels that it feels as much interest as what we're recommending for them opening up the seaport in Portugal to be able to have about 200 percent you find out that are internally obviously the federal government will be generating far more from the NPA than what is generated but should you also blame you know the situation of where the port is you need to consider that the importers and where their warehouses are it's very important in this business so it's a business that's number one and so if you have if I have my business in Lagos and it's easy to have my warehouse here we're also looking at revenue generation we're talking about the traffic uh what business do I have um you know moving to other parts of the country where my business will not be thriving and then I don't have all of that traffic that's another school of thought no no no I think I think you you you've got it wrong this time the bottom line of it is from from the ports in Lagos in any opinion of the ports be think and apapa and was of a leaky today to your to your warehouse you'll be paying for hauling your goods from the neighborhood of between 500 000 to a million area just from the seaports to where your your your what they call your your warehouses but as against hauling from portacol to Lagos that you have a flat rate of 500 000 to all that input from portacol to Lagos so it really does not make too much of a sense for you to do that but what is really driving the the annual for for setting up in Lagos as against this person and spreading the investment across the country simply is the fact that you have a seaport close to you and you want to have that same facility around where the seaport is but if those other seaports in other parts of the country are made to function efficiently you'll find out that just like in the 70s and in the 80s and in the late early 90s you find out that you have most of these factories and most of these facilities in other parts of the country not just also concentrated the way it is in Lagos today because you find out that prior to this time other parts of the country's had their own fair share of contribution to all of this when it comes to maritime related activities but for now it's all clogged up in Lagos because of this policy and I think it's something that the state government and the federal government need to have a handshake and see that they could they could move in need of because that is the silver bullet that's the way we could solve our problem because the seaport is far far the NPA is the contribution from the NPA is far below par as against what is expected from a prior stator like the NPA because if you just suppose what the NPA generates to what a small country like the Republic their seaports or what Ghana or what Togo generates you like we're doing far below par from what is expected it be fair and where that problem is is over concentration in Lagos it's not just selling on the ports now it's selling on the citizens and the people that live in Lagos well so you're saying that importers do not determine where you know this seaport I mean all of this is not a factor as to where you know seaports should be situated is that what you're saying the importers don't really have a say on where do they have a say I think they don't authorize that set of those policies are basically the ones that no they don't have a say the importers don't have a say the importers basically what we do is to follow the direction that the federal government would have would have placed if the federal government policy is concentrating all of the important Lagos then obviously the investors and the importers would concentrate the activities around Lagos that's basically what it is you know if the other ports were to be incurring to perform better then obviously the investment will be dispersed across the country well but some of other concerns why you have you know all the ports in the country you have the worry I mean you won't talk about a worry you want to also talk about the Calabar port as well and all the ports that you have apart from Lagos not been very functional is that the issue of dredging is also number one on the issue and the capacity to dredge and the cost of dredging do you think that that that's also a concern is it an issue yes for us and the investors from where where research based investments for the investment group and all of what we do we get centered around the researchers now that same story was shown to all of us prior to this time in the late nineties and yeah before now that the draft of the seaport had a problem around the eastern border seaports but we took out a case study of that of the seaports in Portugal and from all our studies we discovered that had that had no business the draft of the seaport in fact to tell you the draft of the seaport in Potacot has one of the best drafts in the country next to none and we had such back and forth we had to engage to go to the point where we had to engage the federal ministry of transport we engage the NPA and we're able to be I mean we're able to convince them and today will be indicated because the kind of vessels that have called Potacot seaports and on there are interesting because they're about the biggest vessels that have called the port of Nigeria in the past um in the past hundred years so that leads to rest the story about the draft of the seaport in Potacot I will not be able to extend that same research to order seaports like Calabar and um and the one you're not able to do that but in Potacot we were able to establish that and it's only part of that discovery of that that those vessels called Potacot and um and um and yeah so we'll be indicated on that so Potacot port has no business with issues around the draft or the death of one of these seaports well so so do you think that um the question here is if if this is all you know the answer to it then why is there so much concentration on Lagos why is there so much concentration and why have we not been able to decentralize the ports because some people think that the popular you know the congestion that Lagos has faced with will be solved if we decentralize the ports now those who leave close to you the free trade zone the lekkie free trade zone or the free zone however you want to put it and uh the fact that you're also going to be having the lekkie seaport which is in in process right now uh also very worried about you know movement the roads are not very uh motorable and so the issue of congestion traffic which would also trickle down to every other person cannot be overlooked because you can take for example what's going on in a papa you know the tinker port so why is there over concentration in Lagos and why can we decentralize the ports what's really going on well from a business from a business from a government business point of view it's good business for Lagos governments and um I think the Lagos government I must give it to the Lagos government over the years they've they've had their eyes on the ball and they've looked at the big picture and the big picture for them obviously is to drive the internally generated revenue and they've seen the ports as one soft tool that they should be able to use to achieve that and believe you me you can take it any day the Lagos government had done very well in thriving internally generated revenue through the seaport because if you check the protocol ports as against the Lagos ports in the 80s you find out that the internally generated revenue of river states and that's of Lagos where more or less neck to neck within about the same grain but ever since with the invent of the the boom and of oil the state other states like rivers and the other states in the delta lost the ball so the Lagos state paid more attention to that of other investment related areas like the seaport and they were able to attract further investments around the seaport and they were able to work very much well with the bureaucratic system in the country and they've been able to drive the IGR now if you look at the level the amount of the IGR Lagos state they are the things that of other states you find out that they are they are incomparable but all of those groups in those IGR is now coming with its own backlash and it's the backlash that the people in residence in Lagos are facing now faced with now where you find out that the infrastructure can't really carry the amount of business that the Lagos state attracts so it's the situation whereby the federal government would have to look at the bigger picture because if you over concentrate all of this investment and you play along with the bureaucratic maneuvers of the of the players and Lagos as against the other parts of the country you find out that Lagos will be in where it is today and it will keep you anywhere it is today because for Lagos state to attract the kind of investment in infrastructure to open up other parts of Lagos or to open up the major infrastructure that would carry this amount of business that are going to flow into the city it will take so much but on the other hand you can blame them for what what they have what they have today on the other hand you would expect that the other states that have that same potential should begin to look at sit-off and begin to look at the crystal ball and see how they could attract such kind of investment around the maritime sector in the state so that's what I think they should do so I don't think I would be here well thank you so much for all of the insight that you've brought but I was just hoping that we have more time to talk about this there's several concerns a lot of persons have questioned whether you know the leaky port is actually you know the work the handiwork of the state government as it were or it's actually the maritime pattern that we're in you know with the private sector to have this but you know it would be a conversation for another time and how can the states you know come to that point where they look at the crystal ball where you have all of this concentration that you say it's also responsible I mean it's the federal government's responsibility what can these states really really really do you know to ensure that you have this decentralization because it would also trickle down you know to population and the stress that's going on in the city of Lagos many thanks for being part of the breakfast we appreciate your time you be very pop manual is a president rivers entrepreneurs and investors forum thank you so much well that's the size of a conversation right here we take a break when we return hopefully we're able to come with the second topic right here 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