 All right, good evening, everyone. I'm Sarah Marshall. I would like to call this meeting of the Community Preservation Act committee to order at 602 p.m. on October 28 2021. We are continuing to meet remotely. I think at this point, because of the town council's decisions about remote participation, so I'm going to take attendance, make sure everybody can hear and be heard. So, Dave Williams. Yes, house and Amherst house in the park. Thank you. Can you unmute and just announce that you're present? Thank you. Okay. Thanks. That's all right. Tim. Yes, president. Okay. Thank you, Katie. Yes, here. Andrew. And Sarah, I think you're so thin. Thank you. Great. Good to see you, Sam. Yes, can you hear me? Yes. Very good. Thank you. And we also have Sean Mangano and Sonya Aldrich and Dave Zomek. So Andrew was kindly agreed to take minutes for tonight. So of course Andrew you can always just look back at the recording if you want to focus on the discussion. So thanks. So our first task now that we are fully, the committee is fully staffed, which is wonderful. And I want again to welcome Heady Startup from the Historical Commission and Tim Neal, an at-large member. Welcome you to CPAC. So because we did not have all the permanent members, we could not elect a chair or vice chair last time, so we might as well do that now. Any nominations? Yes. I would like to nominate Sarah Marshall and Sam McLeod as a team, if you will accept that, is one nomination to continue as chair of the CPA committee. Chair and vice chair. Vice chair. Yeah, chair and vice chair. Thanks. Yeah, I think that's necessary. Is anyone second? Second. Thank you. Any other nominations? All right then. All in favor, would you raise your hands? Oh Sam, are you in favor? Can we do roll calls just for a minute? Okay, okay, he put his yellow hand up. Okay, so I believe that is unanimous. Thank you. So that's eight people in favor. Thank you, everyone. Sarah, can we do roll calls so I can get in a minute? I'm sorry, you're very echoey. You sound like you're in a barrel. So all right, let's do it formally. So all those and I'm going to count, I'm going to call on you and you say aye to the motion or I mean yes or no. So Sam? Aye. Heddy? Aye. Dave? Aye. Kim? Aye. Katie? Aye. Andrew? Aye. Sarah? Aye. Thank you. Sam? Did I already do? I already spoke. Okay, you moved on the screen and I'm an aye. Did I miss anyone? Kim? Sorry? Kim? I was, yes, aye. Kim, I'm sorry, yes. The gallery view reshuffled. All right and thank you. Okay, so that's eight in favor and there are only eight of us present. Thank you. Great, so let's move on to the next order of business which is sharing our method to tell the public how we propose each one of us proposed to evaluate proposals. We spend a lot of time talking about two different tools, one of which is in the packet, this form, CPA proposal review form and the other one is a spreadsheet that Andrew designed and if we need to, maybe we can share the screen. I don't know, Sonia, if you found that. Sean Manganos, our tech guy. Oh, you're our tech guy. Okay. I'm zoom illiterate. Okay, it's fine. So Sean, maybe you could just display it so the public can see it because it wasn't in the packet. All right and I hope our new members have had a chance to look at these if they're not ready to pick the tool. That's fine. We'll deal with, we'll ask them again at the next meeting. Okay, so all right, that's the document, but we also have a spreadsheet that sell spreadsheet with a similar title. It was not in the packet, but it was in last, it was in the August materials. Is it Andrew's spreadsheet? Yes, it is. Yeah. So you can, it's a three page spreadsheet. All right, so I hope folks have had some time to think about this. I'm just going to ask you to say if you're ready, which, which tool you propose to use as you go through the various proposals. This is not necessarily to have been done for tonight, but after we've heard all the presentations, we'll, we'll, we'll have all the information we need to make our evaluations. So Katie Zobo, what is Alan Zobo, what do you propose to use? I'm going to use the spreadsheet. Okay. Thank you. Sarah Eisinger, do you have a? Yeah, and then my, my, my question before I answer is, are you, are we expecting, are we turning them in or? No, no. Okay. I converted the one pager into a spreadsheet. Okay. So I'm doing, I'm using that tool, but I've converted it to a spreadsheet. Okay. Okay. That's fine. Thanks. Andrew? Can you hear me better now? No. I mean, if you can speak slowly, better, better. Okay. I'll, I'll try down. I can, I'll use the spreadsheet. And I also have an updated version, which has this year's projects loaded in it. So I'll email it. That's nice. That's wonderful. Save people. Andrew, it just sounds like some, for some reason, you're, that you might be using that, you know, the volume is still up on your phone or somewhere or you're not muted on your, on your computer. And so the phone, it's just, we're hearing you kind of in double. Yeah, I'm not connected with my phone. I'll just, I'll come back in and fingers crossed. Yeah. Okay. All right. Dave, how about you? I have a question before I answer that the, the evaluation, the form that you showed, showed a few moments ago that you said it wasn't in the packet. Did I receive, was that sent to me? A packet, Sonia? No, the packet was. Yes. You have the spreadsheet from the previous meeting. Okay. From our August meeting. That's, that's, that's what I will be using. Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, Patty. Gosh, I'm not sure I can even answer the question. Okay. I don't think I have the wherewithal yet to evaluate properly. Okay. I'm going to have to just observe and, and I, you know, do my best tonight. Oh, well, we're not going to use them tonight. We're not going to use them tonight. This is just so that the public and the applicants know that we, that each member is choosing a uniform way to assess or, and record the thoughts about the proposals. So I'll get back to you. Let's see. Tim, are you able to state a preference? Yes. I did receive them, Sarah. Thank you. And I prefer the spreadsheet. The only issue I have with that is uh, how I use it. I like the concept. I mean, I would probably print something out and fill in the blanks. And I'm not sure I've never done that yet or haven't done it yet. And I just am a little concerned that I'll be able to have all the proper pieces of paper in front of me. And if I have some issue with that, I guess I would need some guidance that I ask to help me with that. I would say that the downside, besides trying to print out wide tables is that I believe there are calculations embedded in the spreadsheet. So if you printed it out, you wouldn't have the benefit of okay at, you know, summing the scores or, or whatever. Actually, I would, I will use that the spreadsheet and I'll just have to play with it and figure out how to complete it. Okay, that is fine. Sam? Yeah, I'm kind of using a hybrid. Essentially, I'm using the upper level, you know, the final level of the spreadsheet with some adaptations. I'm going to determine if the project's eligible. Then I assume we're going to use a one to five rating scale. I'm going to rate the projects based on the primary goals as outlined in the plan and on that spreadsheet. From there, I'll adjust based on the additional goals plus or minus if needed. And I'll also have an adjustment based on budget implications, which is kind of the adaptation from the budget. Then I'll generate a final rating, listen to the members and vote accordingly. So a hybrid version, kind of at the macro level, not the pure spreadsheet. Okay. Thank you. And I will use the one pager. So let's see, Anna is not here yet, right? So I've asked all the committee members, I believe. So Sam, Sean, sorry, has his hand up. So can I just clarify, is the process going to be every individual member will use the method they said, and you'll use that to prioritize the projects, and then we'll take those priorities and plug them into the spreadsheet that Anthony used to set up? Yes. At least my vision is that, yeah. So each of us privately uses a consistent method of reading and assessing each proposal and then brings, we'll bring our ratings to in the meeting as we've done in the past. So, all right. And I see Councilor Shane has joined us. Hello, Kathy. Sam, you have your hand up. Yeah, I just have a question. Given that the spreadsheets referenced, and in the past, we used to use a one to five scale. And I'm not certain if a scale has as of yet been determined that we might use. I'm planning on using a one to five scale for my ratings at the macro level. I don't know if that's your intention or not, but I'm bringing that up because at some point when we aggregate all of our discussions, we'll need, if somebody chooses the spreadsheet with a one to 10 scale, we're going to have to make sure they're proportional. Well, thank you for bringing that up because if we're hearing all the housing proposals tonight, then people could start doing their evaluations. So, yes, our process for the last few years is that we've given each project, each person gives each project after assessing, according to however, ultimately a one to five rating, where five is the highest, highest score, most enthusiastic about recommending that project, about approving that project. One don't want to, don't want to do it. Okay. Yes, Tim. Is the rating supposed to be within each category or is it ratings across categories? So, I might find there are four proposals in say the housing and I rate of the four, one of them five and so on, but that is less important to me than say something in recreation. So, we don't rate within the categories because the committee is free with some small constraints on minimum of funding for some of the categories. We're free to award everything to one category if we want, practically. So, yeah, we just rate across all the projects. All right. Thank you. Yes. All right. Sarah Isinger. Yeah, I was just going to say to that question. I mean, within your own brain, you can come to the meeting with your own sort of ranking order, Tim, like how in each category, I mean, that's a kind of methodology I use, where I'm like, I like this one a lot. But you're not, we don't as a group. We, you know, what we, I don't know, Sarah, if you've explained, we sort of come to a meeting with our own sense of what, yes, no, how we've rated them. And then we have a discussion about it and we interview the the grantees. So, your decision on your own sheet of paper could evolve and change over time, which is fine. And we ultimately at the end vote on these as a group. So it will certainly evolve from day one, proposal one that you first read to the end of this process. This evaluation system is meant to be a tool to help you organize your own evaluation of these proposals. Great. Thank you. So, Sam, your hand is, I don't know if it's still up or you have something. Yeah, I raised it anew. And thank you, Sarah Eisinger, for your explanation. I think it was very helpful to folks that might not have voted in the past. And thank you, Andrew, Andy, and Robin, prior member for coming up with templates for consideration. The one other thought that entered my mind that new members and existing members might also consider is that in the past, we voted internally on the scales. We've come up with our own ratings and there's a discussion of project by project. And the one factor that also gets discussed thereafter is the budgets associated. They may, there may be a request of a certain dollar amount, but not all projects necessarily have to get approved at those budgets or not. That's a discussion. And that's from my ratings mechanism, an adaptation in terms of how I might consider them. So there's flexibility as Sarah Eisinger said. And, you know, I think it's a great benefit to the committee to have a few different templates and to make it clear as Sarah Marshall has to applicants that there's consistency for individuals in the process. Thank you, Sarah, for calling me all over my hand. I'm sure we could and I will make sure we do discuss our process again at some point, but we have our applicants waiting. So I think we should move on. So I'll ask Sonia, I don't know if everyone is here. Do we have, probably have, I saw Nate briefly. So the first presentation, the town of Amherst, Acquisition and Development of Transitional Housing. Are we ready for, Sonia, you're muted. I believe that Dave Zomics here for that, correct? Actually, Nate is going to take the lead on both of these. So I hope he was here and we just lost him. So I'd love to have one minute and get him back. I'm going to contribute to these discussions, but he is going to take the lead. So he was here and now he's gone. Well, should we? Do you want to start, John? Yeah, if John wanted to. You could start with John and we could wait a few minutes for Nate. Well, I don't want to start John and then stop. Oh no, I mean go for John and we'll go afterward as soon as Nate gets on. He may be having some connectivity issues. Okay. All right. In that case, we will move on to affordable housing development projects. Welcome, John Hornick. Thank you. Anybody doesn't know me. I'm John Hornick. I'm the chair of the Amherst Municipal Affordable Housing Trust. We have two proposals before you and actually I wanted to flip the order if I might. Sarah, I prefer to talk briefly about the request for $30,000 for consulting services first since it's the simpler request and then go on to the request for $500,000 for affordable housing development. If that's okay. That's fine. Go ahead. Okay, great. Thanks. So my first presentation will be brief. For the past four years, the Housing Trust has been very fortunate to be receiving consulting services from Ms. Rita Farrell. She is an ideal consultant prior to her retirement from the Mass Housing Partnership. She had over 30 years of experience assisting communities, including Amherst, in the development of affordable housing. There are few problems or questions about what she is not very knowledgeable. And in those rare cases where that might occur, she has a large Rolodex of former colleagues and friends whom she can reach out to. Our contractual agreement is one in which she only works in response to requests from the trust or the town, primarily me, but occasionally Nate Malloy. She only builds us for the time that she works on trust business. It is for us an ideal arrangement. We are now requesting funds to extend her contract for two additional years. The request describes the task that she has undertaken in the past, as well as what we expect will occur in the future. There is no one in town hall with either the knowledge or experience or the time to undertake this work. So I think all that is pretty straightforward, so I will conclude and take questions before moving on to the second request. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you, John. So I'll ask people to either raise an actual hand or the little yellow hand so I can call Andrew. Can you hear me better now? Yes, yes. All right, cool. Hi, John. Thanks for the presentation. Thank you, Andrew. I would just want to real quick. What would you say would happen if you didn't have this money? What's plan B for you? Honestly, Andrew, I haven't thought about that. I really don't have a plan B. If we don't have Rita to work with, it's going to be a barrier for us. I mean, I guess we'll limp along. It's not like we're going to close down the housing trust. But honestly, I haven't thought of what would happen if we don't receive this funding and we aren't able to continue to contract with her. Sarah, thank you. John, thank you. I have two questions. One is I believe we've given or you've requested $40,000 in the past. Can you speak to what and haven't spent that all? So can you just speak to the amount that you've requested? And if that's really a more accurate level that you're spending level, is the first question then? Could someone maybe, Dave Zomak, explain the difference between this role and the proposed housing coordinator within the town? So either of you. But let me answer your first questions, Sarah. Sure. Yeah, I think $40,000 was the amount that we requested when we first began to look for a consultant and eventually hired Rita in that role. Our experience over the last four years is that we don't need that level. And in fact, I think there have been years when I simply drew the request because I realized we didn't need any new money. But now we're at a point where we definitely do. And I feel pretty confident that $30,000 will stretch us over the next two town fiscal years. I'll also comment on your second question. And Dave can comment as well, although to some extent you may want to wait until we hear the full presentation on that. I mean, from my point of view, the town is proposing to hire somebody new part-time but who would be a town hall employee and who would work regular hours and work presumably under the supervision of Nate Malloy. What we have is something different. We don't have somebody new. We have somebody with extraordinary knowledge and experience who can really fill gaps that nobody else can. And I would be very surprised if the town was able to hire somebody with over 30 years of experience working on affordable housing in this part-time probably lower paying position. So I think we're talking apples and oranges honestly. Hi, Nate. Welcome back. You're muted, but go ahead. Sure, thanks. Yeah, I had to restart my computer. Sometimes my Zoom camera doesn't work. I have problems. So I had to leave for a minute. The second question, hi, I'm Nate Malloy. I'm a senior planner with the town. I'll just introduce myself. I help staff the housing trust. And I was going to add that the funding that is recommended by CPA isn't necessarily dedicated to Rita. It's to a consultant position. So although we've been fortunate enough to have Rita, we still could hire her through a procurement process, but the money is also available for a consultant to help with other projects. So if staff weren't able to assist the trust, the trust could have a consultant do other tasks such as engineering or architectural drawings for a project. And so that's different than say what a staff person may do. So the trust money could hire expertise in certain fields to further a project in a different capacity than staff would have. So I think, you know, that's also a difference. I just wanted to clarify that. Well, I would say that John's proposal is, does not include that flexibility. I mean, I'm not saying, yeah, I think it's pretty specific as to the nature of the consulting. Yeah, I just want to say we can't name a person. I think it's a position so that, you know, it, you know, Rita is hired through a request for quotes process, you know, for a contract term. And so although we, you know, she's willing and she's a local resource, I just want to make sure it's, you know, it's a consultant position. So Sarah, could I jump in there? I just wanted to respond to Sarah ease question, you know, and I guess I would agree with what John said a few moments ago. I think these are, these are really talking about apples and oranges here. But I think what's important, really important to recognize here is that we need more capacity. We have a crisis in town with housing. It is not unique to Amherst. It is happening all over Massachusetts. We need to, you know, if you read anything about from Boston to Worcester to Springfield to the Berkshires, housing is a crisis in communities, cities and towns all over Massachusetts. We have a very talented staff. We have a very committed housing trust. We've mentioned Rita Ferrell, who happens to want to work with us in retirement, which is wonderful. I think we ought to look at this as capacity building. How do we raise the capacity of the town and the trust to secure more housing, to protect the housing that's already in permanent protection in town, and to get production going in Amherst. We've been at this a long time. This is not a problem that's going to go away overnight. You all know that. We need to dig in, roll up our sleeves, and keep acquiring properties, keep working with partners like Valley CDC and Wayfinders, and the list goes on. We need to keep going for grants. All of those things need to happen, and whether it's Rita Ferrell in the trust or a part-time person for the town, to me, it really doesn't matter. Both of those things will help us increase our capacity to really produce more housing. We need to produce more housing in town, and there are creative ways to do that. My staff and I rolled up our sleeves last year and came to you and said, we think we can acquire some property on Belcher Town Road for the town. We collaborated with the trust, but by and large, that was my staff doing that work, from wetlands to purchase and sale agreements, and the list goes on. We can do that, but there's no designated housing person. There's a piece of Nate, there's a piece of me, there's a piece of Rob Mora, a piece of Chris Prestrup. I guess my point is, if we had somebody over the next couple of years, and maybe we start with three years and see how that goes, a three-year position part-time, we may come back to you in three years and say, this has worked so well. Here's all the outcomes that we have seen, as John has seen, with Rita Ferrell and that consulting, that this is something we want to do in a bigger way. But there's opportunities to be had out there. From Belcher Town Road, Hickory Ridge is a great example. I've been working personally, professionally on Hickory Ridge for four and a half years. I've spent literally a few hundred hours, I'm sure, of my own time, of my staff time and my time trying to acquire Hickory Ridge. One component of that might be, may be affordable housing, but it's taken four and a half years to get that project to where it is today. So it's all about, in my mind, capacity. Thank you. I think the question inevitably is led us to be talking about two proposals at once, but I would like, if I can, just to ask if there are any more questions specifically about the housing trust application for consultant, money for consulting services. Yes. Sam. Good to see you, John. I'm sorry, my video is not working. And Dave and Nate, and I see that Kathy's here as well. Those are the new attendees since I last spoke. My question briefly, John, reading your proposal and the responses to the questions. My understanding is there's about an $18,000 balance currently from prior funds allocated. You referenced that they'll be mostly used by the end of June 2022. Is it your thought that the funds that you're applying for currently would be for 2023 and 2024, and or also, is it possible that you're providing flexibility for the potential for there to be more needed work given the various projects that are being discussed beyond the referenced budget so that you'll have flexibility? Does it make sense what I asked? Kind of. I mean, I think it overlaps a little bit with Sarah's question. When she asked, well, why didn't we ask for more money? Yes, we have in the past. And the answer is we think we can manage with a $30,000 budget. So and we think that the current balance of funds will probably be drawn down pretty low by the end of the current fiscal year. So we want to be assured that we have adequate funding for the next two fiscal years. I mean, I can't tell you whether there'll be $8,000 left or $4,000 left or whatever at the end of this fiscal year, but I think we'll be covered if you recommend the $30,000 we requested for the next two fiscal years. Thank you, John. You did answer my question, 23-24. I appreciate it. Okay, then let's move on to the larger ask, John, the Affordable Housing Development Projects, requesting $500,000. Okay, thank you, Sarah, and that's the fun one. I'll cover some ground I've covered before for people who haven't heard it, but mostly mostly say some things I haven't before. It's the principal responsibility, the Housing Trust, to focus on the development of affordable housing. We do this so that the kinds of problems that individuals and families in Amherst space today can be better addressed in the future. You, the Community Preservation Act Committee are our primary partners in this endeavor. Without the commitment of CPA resources, we cannot encourage or support appropriate affordable housing development in Amherst. As I have said to this committee also before, this is one of, if not the most important investments that you can make. Not only will the dollars you commit support the development of housing for individuals or families who are homeless or at risk of homelessness, but it is the most highly leveraged use of CPA resources that you can make. For every dollar you invest in affordable housing development, $8 to $10 are added from the Commonwealth Department of Housing and Community Development or other public resources. Nothing else you fund has a multiplier of $8 to $10 times your investment in affordable housing development. One year ago, as Dave noted, I came before you with him with a request for CPA funds to purchase the property on Belcher-Found Road. We closed on the purchase last February and this past month the Town and the Trust released an RFP for development on both Belcher-Town Road and East Street together. Once the developer is selected, they will go through the necessary planning and zoning processes leading to our request for the State Department of Housing and Community Development for major funding needed to construct, I would say, 50 to 60 new units of affordable housing. CPA funding is critical to accomplishing that, so I thank you for your support. I also want to acknowledge the use of CPA funds to create the COVID-19 emergency rental assistance program from July 2020 through June 2021 to assist individuals and families who were at risk of eviction as a result of their loss of income to pay rent. Again, I thank you. So now, why ask for $500,000 without having a specific project in mind? There are two reasons. First, we have a number of specific projects that we are pursuing, but none are at the point where we know what funding will be required to support them. They include the following, home ownership project on town-owned property off Strong Street, a second home ownership development with which one of the not-for-profit developers in the Valley is pursuing, and third, an affordable rental development on the southern edge of the former Hickory Ridge Golf Course along West Bromory Lane, which the town is in the process of purchasing. Second reason is if an opportunity to move ahead occurs within the next six months, we cannot come back to you to request funding at that point in time. Because you have an annual process, we would have to wait more than one year to put in a new request, hope that you recommend it to town council, and that they then approve it. Under the circumstances, we would much prefer to have the funds reserved so they would be available when needed. If they are not available in a timely way, we could lose an important opportunity. What is the risk to you? Really little or none. If we do not spend the money in the next year, we would probably spend it within the next year or at most two years. Moreover, it never actually leaves the town CPA account until it is spent. All other things being equal then, I think this is a very reasonable request. Now, I have to acknowledge that when the Housing Trust submitted the request, we were not aware that the town was preparing to submit a similar request. So you were faced with two requests from the town and the trust, each for $500,000 to support development of affordable housing. And I expect that you cannot fund both. What should you do? Very simply, support one of them. We need more affordable housing in Amherst. If you want to support the town's request, honestly, that's fine with me. If that is what you choose to do, then I would ask that you give the Housing Trust at least $100,000 so we are able to continue to do due diligence on sites that we need to evaluate or to contract for preliminary architectural studies of sites that we wish to develop. Also, should emergency circumstances arise, we would again be able to create a short-term mental assistance program as we did last year. So having that flexibility is really important. While we are primarily, sorry, reliant to fund CPA resources, a changing environment should give us the opportunity to tap other funds. These include the town's recent ARPA allocation, that is American Rescue Plan Act funds from which we are requesting support, the town's short-term rental fees, no actual allocation yet, and the community development block grant, which has historically been used to support housing development. Given the great need in town for affordable housing, I should say that I see this as an opportunity to expand what we are able to do, not replace CPA resources. That concludes my second presentation. Thank you again for your past support and for your attention this evening, and I am ready to respond to additional questions. Sarah, can I make a clarifying statement? CPA, the money for the affordable housing trust, does leave the CPA account and it goes into the trust, so it doesn't stay in the CPA account. However, it is tracked and it is marked that it is CPA funding and all of the restrictions that you have with CPA funding and how to spend it go with it, but they are on two separate funds. Thank you, but it remains under control of it down. Absolutely. It can take it back after however many years if it wanted to like happens with other projects. Okay, thank you. All right, so questions from the committee? I see Sam has a question. Yes, thank you, Sarah. Thank you for the presentation, John. I've got two questions for you, one of which I'll also ask to Dave if he happens to be here when he assuming he's presenting. One is you mentioned the southern end of the Hickory Ridge project as a possible, West Pomeroy Lane as a possible location. My understanding is the entire stretch of Hickory Ridge Southern end of that would be Pomeroy Lane. It's a very long stretch. Is there a particular location within Hickory Ridge that's being considered? At first, I was thinking it was another parcel separate from Hickory Ridge such as the one between Taylor Davis and Civis, but do you have a spot in Hickory Ridge that you're considering? Not that this is major, but I'm just curious. The spot will actually be defined by the planning staff. As of right now, that long stretch along West Pomeroy Lane is clearly not all developable. Some of it is wetlands and so you couldn't build on that area. So we have to wait until the town defines what is developable in that area. The estimate is five to nine acres. Okay. And my follow-up more pertinent question and it's really for both you and Dave when you have time and I think it would assist viewers who may watch this meeting at a later time and our members as well. Can you describe or explain to those in attendance the relationship or the distinction between the housing trust and the town of Amherst because there are multiple proposals that arrive. We saw last year there was a significant proposal on an urgent time period where the CPA was able to fund the purchase and sale, but how would you describe or define the relationship between the housing trust and the town? I think that would assist a number of folks in general understanding and from a different perspective. Similarly, Dave, I would ask the same too. I'll give my shot at it. The housing trust is an arm of town government. It is not separate from town government. It is in one ways like any other town committee, but what makes it exceptional is that it has the power to write contracts, to collect money, to spend money, et cetera, et cetera. As a practical matter, the trust is not exercised many of those powers. For reasons, frankly, of efficiency, we have relied on the town to do that. For example, I mentioned the most recent RFP for the East Street School and Belcher Town Road sites, which are bundled together. In principle, the trust would have the power to have developed and released the RFP and decided who it should go to. If you look at the statute and you look at the regulation, that's all possible. In my judgment as the chair of the trust, I think that I won't say is impractical, but it's inefficient. We rely on town staff to do various things, and there's no reason to replicate that. The town has a procurement officer. We don't need a procurement officer. The town has legal counsel. We don't need legal counsel. The town has a financial staff. We don't need a financial staff to do these occasional tasks. We rely on the town. In that sense, it's hard, if you like, to distinguish between the housing trust and the town. I think the added value of the housing trust is that we look for opportunities for projects. Not that the town doesn't, but this way you have more eyes looking and working on this problem. We talk to developers as the town does. We do the primary draft of the RFP as we did for East Street and Belcher Town Road. There are a number of things that we do, either ourselves or in collaboration with the town, but then there are also many things that we rely on the town for operating as if we were an ordinary town committee. That's my brief explanation. Thank you, John. Andrew. The question was directed at both of us. I just wondered whether I could briefly, I can do it after, I can wait till after Andrew. Yeah, why don't we get the committee's questions on the table? Go ahead. Okay, thank you. Mine hopefully be quick. Thanks for making note of that multiplier effect. I was curious when you'd mentioned the fact that we could sort of go either route. Is that, and not to make you answer for someone else's proposal, but does that multiplier effect with that applied to both this proposal as well as the town proposal? Well, I expect that it would, but Dave or Nate may contradict me. It depends on exactly what you end up doing with the money. If it's the housing trust, but in collaboration with the town, we generally look to bring in a developer who will pursue the development and as part of that responsibility, we do expect the developer to find outside money above and beyond the value of the land or whatever else the town grants in order, frankly, to demonstrate to the Department of Housing Community Development or other public funders that the town has skin in the game. We are less likely to be successful honestly with DHCD or others. If there isn't a town commitment, even if it's only 10 or 5% attached to a project. Did you have another one, Indra? No, I will say. Thank you. I see you, Katie. You mentioned putting skin in the game and you're releasing RFP or half for Belcher Town Road in East Street School. It's my understanding that the town is providing both of those properties. Are you saying that the town will also be expected to put in cash as well as the land and possibly a building or a building? Not at this point in time. I think those are substantial contributions. On the other hand, we would obviously have to evaluate as you would if whoever the chosen developer comes back to us and said, well, we need another $300,000, which we don't think we're going to be able to secure from another public funder. And here's the reason why. But at this point, no, I don't anticipate that. Thank you. Katie, you wanted to. Yes, John, thank you. I really appreciated the information that you shared in addition to the application. One thing you did mention, and I'm not seeing it here, I saw this reference to CDBG, but the ARPA request, did you note how much you've requested and the timing of that? And can those dollars sit in a trust? I didn't note that because the housing trust has yet to finalize its requests. We are meeting next Thursday evening. Anyone is invited to attend. And at that point, we'll talk about what we would like for the projects that at this point, we think we're going to request. I will say that the town has set aside roughly $2 million out of the total of $11 million. One million of it would be for possibly a year round shelter or a transitional housing program. The other million dollars is allocated to things of interest to the trust, which would include the home ownership projects that I mentioned earlier and something else that we wouldn't go to you for. That is a program in which we would encourage owners of multi-unit buildings in town to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of heating systems through weatherization and through switching the form of heating from something that's outmoded, less efficient to heat pump technology. Thank you. What we have and what we get, I don't know. Sorry. Dave Williams. Yes, John, clarify something. I don't know if I heard this correctly, but you made a statement that the housing trust and the town of Amherst are competing with each other for property? Would you clarify? Did I hear that correctly? I hope that's not what I said because I don't think we're in competition. No, that's the reason I'm asking. I think what I refer to is the fact that we submitted our request for $500,000 for program development at a time before we were aware that the town was going to submit a similar request, but what I also said about that is that I doubt you're going to be able to fund both. Then I said, what I would hope you to do is at least fund one of them because of the great need for affordable housing development in town. Thanks for the clarification. I thought I saw that Sean had his hand up earlier. Yeah, I was just going to say, Sarah, just to clarify the ARPA money. We have tentatively earmarked $2 million for housing and homelessness initiatives. This month of October, we've gotten a lot of feedback and we've done some listening sessions. The plan is to bring back a final version of a spending plan for ARPA to the council in November. It's not finalized yet. I just wanted to clarify that we're getting feedback and we'll bring back that final plan soon. Whatever ends up being approved by council, is it going to be very specific? It wouldn't be just housing funds, but it would be this certain kind of housing or this certain kind of... So for housing and the homelessness issue, what we've identified is that the town would work collaboratively with partners on how to allocate those funds. We don't feel like we have enough time to allocate them to very specific programs right now, but we do know we want to earmark those funds for those initiatives. But we did outline that we would work with groups like the housing trust to come up with those programs. Okay, thank you. Tim? Yeah, I'm obviously new to the conversation, but the question I had was, if housing is determined by this committee in the town as a very, very high priority, is it fair to say that there could be a need for both 500 and 500? Or as you are, John, do you feel that there's something less than a million in total? Thanks, Tim. Yes, I do think we could easily spend a million dollars. No question about that. On the other hand, I think you would be in a difficult position given the competing requests that you have for CPA dollars to fund both of those requests. I mean, I would be delighted if you did that. What I was saying is I really don't expect it, but my hope is that you definitely fund one of those requests. Okay, because as I said, we hear all the other projects and we may have our own opinions in terms of priorities in the town. That was the purpose of the question. Thank you. Thanks. Dave? Sure, I'll be brief. I think this has been a great conversation and I look forward to Nate talking a little bit about the town's proposal. But I think through all the questions and answers, it kind of illustrates the different roles that the town can play and the trust can play and the complementary nature of the two organizations really as part of the town. I also wanted to just put a little cautionary note out there in response to Sam's questions earlier about Hickory Ridge. I just want to make sure we don't get ahead of ourselves on Hickory Ridge. We don't own the property. It could be some months before we do own the property. As I said, it's been over four years in the making and hundreds of staff hours collectively have probably gone into this acquisition. And if everything goes well, which I hope it does later on in the calendar year, and we are the owners, we are planning, the town is planning to do a master plan for the site. We did have three events recently where over 225 people came to visit the property and we're generating a number of ideas on our engage Amherst page. I think the town's role will, as John said, will be to complete that master plan with all the different ideas that are coming from the community and to consider proposals by the trust. The trust may have ideas about what kind of housing might go there. I suspect that town planning staff will also have ideas about what kind of housing might go there, whether it's over 55 housing, whether it's rental, whether it's owner occupied, etc., etc. So stay tuned on that and be patient. It's going to take some months to figure out next steps with Hickory Ridge. But Dave, thanks. I thought there was no decision yet even as to housing versus a senior center versus anything else. That is very true. That's why I'm asking for, yeah, I'm asking for patience. We've had, I can tell you, for the limited frontage on West Palm Marie Lane, we've had people talk about affordable housing. We've had people ask us why we can't put a fire station there. What about a BIPOC community center and the list goes on and on and on. So no decisions have been made. We're looking forward to input more input over the next couple of months and hopefully all will go well and we'll acquire it before the end of the calendar year. Thanks. Thank you. I think we need to move on. Sam, I'm sorry, but we've got three more. I have a very brief question that can be answered later. Okay, thank you. My question relates to what are the $298,000 encumbrances allotted for and it might be a question for Sonia and or for John, but it's information that might be helpful. I assume it's a depletion of the prior award of $400,000, but it'd be helpful to know those details at a later time. Yeah. All right. Thank you. All right. Sonia, where are we? Are we now back to the town of Amherst? Start with the, what was first, the transitional housing. So I believe Nate will. Sure. Yeah, that was very, that was pretty on the agenda. Sonia, you're muted. I don't know if you, the, hi, I'm Nate Malloy. I'm a senior planning with the town. I just, I want to say something quickly too about the role of the trust in the town. You know, John said the trust is mid of the town, but the trust has statutory authority. You know, it's in the general bylaw of the town. Mass, mass general law provides that it has a number of powers and responsibilities in the town adopted all those. So in some communities where the town government may not have the capacity that Amherst does, the trust, you know, acts on its own in terms of it can hire a consultant, an attorney, an accountant, and it has all those abilities. It can hold property. It can rent property. But in Amherst, there's a collaborative relationship with the town and the trust. So I think John's right. I think the trust, we work together really well, but you know, the trust, although it is a part of government, it has a lot of legal responsibility and powers that it could undertake and, you know, it doesn't, but it could. So in some communities, the trust is very active. I also think the trust in Amherst plays a really good role in outreach and education and facilitating projects. So not saying the town government doesn't do that, but the trust holds forums a few times a year. John has a great outreach, you know, process. And so it keeps people apprised of housing. So the trust, you know, is also very good at that. So I guess moving on, you know, the town, this is Nate Malloy again for the town, we requested $500,000 for transitional supportive housing. And I know in the application, we didn't name a property and we can't yet, you know, staff has been working on that. So I think, you know, what's happened through the pandemic, especially made very clear that, you know, seasonal shelter and congregate shelter is still important, but really what's important is transitional housing and supportive housing with services. And so we've known that, but I think, you know, the time right now is with, you know, with ARPA funds, with possible other federal funding. We think this is an opportune time to request CPA funds to help support the acquisition of a property and the rehabilitation of a property for supportive housing. In Amherst, there isn't any supportive housing right now, you know, maybe a century ago, there was more boarding houses and lodging houses and those have been converted to market rate apartments. Valley CDC just recently received a comprehensive permit and funding for 132 North Hampton Road. And that's 28 studio apartments. And only about half of those are really designated for extremely low income. And so, and some of those will, you know, be able to help tenants find services. There'll be a coordinator there to help tenants find services. But right now, in Amherst, there are no kind of transitional supportive housing. You know, the housing authority owns property. Most of those are not, you know, earmarked for, you know, this population for these residents for that income level. And so, you know, we're asking money in general to support a project. And I'll say that moving forward, we hope as, you know, because it's so early right now in October and the funds wouldn't be available until July, you know, we're anticipating that through this process, more information could become available. And the CPA committee could meet an executive session, if necessary, to learn more about a specific property or project if that becomes available. So, you know, we're anticipating using these funds, you know, in the coming, you know, a few fiscal years, but we need to plan now for it. Thank you, Nate. Could you, before we have questions, just to explain what transitional housing is and supportive housing and how this is different from other kinds of affordable housing. I don't know that everybody is aware. Sure. Yeah. I mean, some people consider it a continuum of care or continuum of housing. If you, you know, if you don't have a place to stay, there can be a shelter. And then there's transitional or supportive housing, which is kind of entry level housing, it could be for extremely low income. So individuals or families that are earning 30% or less of the area median income. So that's, you know, you know, that's so, you know, then there's affordable housing, capital affordable. And usually that's between 50 and 80% of area median income. So transitional housing is really supporting, you know, extremely low income individuals and families. It often is coordinated with service providers so that there can be wraparound services for tenants, you know, and the housing itself is affordable, it could be deed restricted. And the units are permanent, permanently affordable and the tenants may have, you know, a two year window where they can help stabilize their lives. And then they may move out of the housing, you know, in Valley CDC project, they anticipate that, you know, some of the tenants will be long term and some may use it as a stepping stone to find more permanent housing. But, you know, the units themselves would be affordable and they would support, you know, tenants as they move through this continuum of housing. Sarah, could I add just a couple of things? Just to round things out a little bit, just to let you know that the town has been working with Craig's Doors, the organization that supports and has run our shelters in town, and we've been working closely with them for years. In fact, we should have some very good news coming out, perhaps this week, early next week, about a congregate shelter site in Amherst. But suffice it to say that during the pandemic, the number of homeless individuals in Amherst, you know, really skyrocketed. Right now, our goal for sheltering for this coming winter is probably on the order of 40 to 50 individuals. And as you know, Craig's Doors has been renting rooms at the University Motor Lodge in the northern part of our downtown. But that is not going to be enough. And I want to say, you know, very positive things about Craig's Doors. They've been a wonderful partner through the years as we work with them at now three different locations, the First Baptist Church, the UU site in downtown, and then the University Motor Lodge. And we're working on one additional site for this coming winter. But the mission of Craig's Doors is really not to house those people they are helping. So we've been meeting with Craig's Doors. We've been meeting with other providers in the region. And this is where we really came to this conclusion. And I think, you know, John would agree that there's really a void in the housing market here. So this idea of this proposal was really to fill that void with permanent supportive housing units. Because Craig's Doors is keeping people safe in congregate housing for six months of the year. But where do they go after that? And our goal here over the next three to five years would be to decrease the number of people in congregate housing, sheltering in Amherst, and get people housed. And this isn't new. The state is really pushing for communities to do this. The state has some money out there to help. And as Nate said, we're hoping that maybe CPA dollars, ARPA funds, and maybe some additional state funds from through DHCD could allow us to buy another property and go through the process of creating more units of permanent supportive housing. So I'll stop there. Thanks. Good. Questions from the committee. Andrew. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for the presentation, me. I'm trying to just understand general scope. And I know you can't share details relative to properties. But trying to get a sense of how many, like, units we might think of this, like, does that 500,000 in your mind convert to, like, two units, three units, 10 units? Like, what's a general sense of how much we would get from that? And then also, you know, I saw in the write-up that we would be getting funds from federal state resources. Is that probable or is that something that could be uncertain? So I will, yeah, thanks, Andrew. I think in recent years, the town has provided about 80 to $100,000 per unit in subsidy, whether that CPA block grant or some tax relief. And I think, you know, I was envisioning this 500,000 would be more than two units. I'd love to say, you know, 10 to 20, you know, but it really is dependent on the property. But, you know, I'm thinking, you know, more than single digits. You know, and so, you know, if it was more than 20, that'd be great. But, you know, I think 10 to 20 is a safe estimate. In terms of the other funding, you know, I think it's probable, you know, nothing secure, right? So the towns had discussions with different stakeholders, different entities. And so, like I said, it's kind of an opportune time in terms of funding. There is funding, you know, out there, federal and state funding. And so I think, you know, our thought is that over the next six, eight months, things could coalesce and there would be, you know, a feasible project. And so, you know, CPA is one piece that would help show local commitment. And so I think that it's a really good, you know, bargaining chip to have to say that there's local support. And then it can also leverage, you know, other funds. Okay. Do you think the 500,000 would be enough to at least purchase an adequate property? I think the 500 would, I think there'd be additional funds needed to purchase the property and renovate the property. And so, you know, the CPA funds would be used for, you know, the housing piece. And, you know, what other funds are available, we would, you know, we'd have to augment the CPA funds. So. Okay. Thanks, Nate. Katie, I said a quick question, a clarification question in the, thank you for answering a lot of questions already in writing. My understanding is that the town would continue to own this property, but in the, is that correct? So I think, you know, that hasn't been decided. So and sometimes the town leases the property. And then, you know, there's a nominal annual lease fee, but then basically the management of the property management of the housing and the tenants is all through, you know, a private entity that the town would secure through a procurement. So, you know, that hasn't been decided. It could, it could dispose of the property or at least the property. So, you know. It just said it's not the town's intention to own and operate the housing. So it hasn't been decided yet. I mean, typically the town isn't a landlord, right? So we don't want to necessarily own, own a property. You know, especially if it's for housing, we, you know, there are other entities that specialize in that. So, you know, depending on the situation and the type of property, it could be that it's, you know, there's a disposition to an entity. If I could, I would see this very similar to Belcher Town Road, that we would perhaps enter into a long-term lease. But as Nate said, we don't, we want to work hand in hand with the developer, who then we lease the land to and they manage the property. And essentially we, we are not, Amherst does not want to get into the business of leasing and being a landlord. Maintaining property. That was my question, sort of maintenance going forward. Okay. That clarifies it. Thank you. By getting in the mix, as we did on Belcher Town Road or Hickory Ridge and being the purchaser, we can act quickly as quickly as government can and we acted very quickly on Belcher Town Road and really be that catalyst to secure property when it's available. And as Nate indicated, we are looking at a couple of properties that fit this, this profile right now. Yes. Thank you, Nate and all. And Dave, would someone give a quick response brief regarding the, to help our viewers and just general understanding regarding the status of Belcher Town Road projects that we provided funding for last year? Sure. So the town, working with the trust, you know, the trust developer request for proposal that is now, you know, was made public in responses are due November 19th. There was a site visit on October 6. There were three or four developers that attended. And so, you know, we're anticipating having responses by the end of next month. Responses to find someone to develop, right, right. The request for proposal is seeking a developer. So, you know, as part of the response, they would have, you know, concept plans, a management plan, you know, the town would have to review and accept those. But the idea is that there would be a developer selected over the next few months that would actually then go through permitting and develop housing on those two proper on those sites, you know, Eastview School and Belcher Town Road. Thank you, Nate. That's quite a quick A to B on that project there. Thank you. Well, yeah, I just say that we will, we could select a developer. It may be though, you know, two years before the units are built, but at least there would be the process of, you know, getting it done. Yes, thanks. I have a couple of questions. This proposal mentions the shelter but says this money is not for the shelter. So I'm wondering why it's mentioned. Is this, are you anticipating both functions in one building or the shelter really is just totally separate property and it's not CPA money? So yeah, I think as Dave raised in his hand, I was going to say that it could be that the property supports both, you know, and so we would, you know, be specific that CPA dollars are spent only for the housing piece. We could pro-rate it or, you know, have something, but it could be that it's advantageous to have those services together on the same property. And so we didn't want to exclude that in the proposal or, you know, just for transparency that, you know, it could be a really great opportunity for Craig's doors to also, you know, or a shelter to be on this site. Okay, thank you. And my other question was, is this award or rather, is this contingent on landing the million plus in other funding or you'll just take 500 and then figure out some other funding plan? So I think, you know, this funding is, you know, specific to this project. And so I think, you know, the town would have to make sure the budget can work. And so, you know, my thought is if other funding is secured or available, then if the product doesn't proceed, the money doesn't, you know, doesn't leave CPA. So I mean, I mean, you can say it's contingent. I think that, you know, we'd be working to figure out other funding sources. But it's not like the housing trust, if I could say, you know, we just, we have some pot of money and then then we can act when opportunities arise. This is for a specific project. Right, right. So the housing trust can legally, you know, it's mentioned in this, in this CPA statute that the housing trust can bank CPA money, you know, so they're, you know, that's one of the few entities that actually can, you know, capitalize CPA money and hold onto it. You know, this is for a specific project. So that's a little different than how the trust can hold onto their money. Sarah, if I could, I would also add that our request, as John indicated, there's approximately $2 million in the draft list for the first Pulse of ARPA funds. And we have a similar wording in that, that it is one million of a 2 million, if approved by the council moving forward, could be used for finding a permanent shelter location slash permanent supportive housing. So we saw these in parallel, that if we came to the CPA asking for half a million, and we put in our ore in the water on ARPA funds as well, that those two sources could be complimentary. As John mentioned with his proposal and the other million in ARPA funding. So I would encourage the group to take a look at that ARPA list if you haven't already. Any other questions from that? All right. Thank you for that. We've, you have the second proposal for three years of staff support. We've talked about it a little bit, but perhaps you'd like to say something more or present it in its own right? Sure. Thanks. Yeah, name a way again. I'll present it. So the town's requesting funding, you know, $100,000 for approximately three years of a part-time non-benefited position 15 to 20 hours a week. And so this would be, you know, an employee of the town. It reports the planning director and work with planning staff. It's on the second floor of town hall, there's inspection services with the building commissioner, conservation planning, it's, you know, conservation development. And so, you know, this position would work actively to, you know, preserve and promote affordable housing. I think there's a lot of roles, as Dave and John have mentioned, that are needed to increase the supply of affordable housing. So, you know, the position could help plan and assess properties. It would also be doing, you know, necessary steps. For instance, with the 132 Northampton Road project staff helped the project through permitting. We're also now, you know, working with contracts for CPA and other, you know, regulatory agreements, getting it included with the state subsidizing housing inventory. So there's, you know, a number of steps needed for a project. And this staff person could be involved with all of those. You know, and I think in one of the questions it was asked, would they be working on CPA eligible projects? And I think the, what we're envisioning is a staff person that works only on housing. So it would be all CPA eligible. So there, you know, whether it's senior housing, whether it's home ownership opportunities, or rental housing, this position would be involved in a number of projects. It could also be working with, you know, education and outreach components. And, you know, it could work with the trust. I mentioned that in the answers that, you know, there are times where staff and the trust work together and then there are initiatives that are taken independently. So, you know, as Dave said, I think I see this as, you know, helping increase the capacity of both the town and the trust and, you know, increasing the supply of housing in town. Any more? Dave? Yes. Nathan. How will, have you given any thought to how this position, or will this position, coordinate any of its work with Amherst House and Authority? That's a good question. I'd say that we haven't yet. I think, you know, I often communicate with Chad and we, Chad Howard from the Housing Authority, they, you know, they also apply for block grant funding, which I help manage. So I think that, you know, the town and the Housing Authority do work together. And I think that this position, you know, would be a town employee, so it wouldn't be, you know, an employee of the Housing Authority, but they could help the Housing Authority. So if there are certain projects or funding that the Housing Authority is looking at, you know, I often will have conversations with Chad or Pamela. So I think that, you know, this position would be available to help, you know, if there are certain projects or funding. Any thoughts to the Housing Authority, coordinating it all of it for the town? So that was your question, that the Housing Authority would coordinate this position? Coordinating it all for the town of Amherst. All housing initiatives for low income or whatever level you're talking about? No, I mean, we, so I think the Housing Authority, that's a good question. So the Housing Authority, you know, for everyone listening is quasi-public. It's not, it's not part of the town government. So I think, you know, the Housing Authority owns property, right? They administer a lot of vouchers. And so, you know, we have not, my thought is that the town, we also work on housing in a different capacity or different, you know, different perspective than the Housing Authority. And so in terms of, you know, like Dave said, the town was able to help purchase Belcher Town Road. And it's my understanding that the Housing Authority, you know, they're not undertaking those types of projects, right? So they're not researching properties and assessing properties for future development. You know, they're not helping projects through permitting or getting projects on the subsidized housing inventory. And so they're, I think there's, you know, parallel tasks in terms of affordable housing that the town undertakes. It's different than the Housing Authority. Okay. Thanks. Sam? Yes. Hi, Nate. Thank you for your, your communication so far. Two questions. I think I know the answers, but it'd just be helpful to hear it. Is there an existing job description for this position you're considering? And secondly, would this position, would this potential employee be hired without the funds? Were the CPA funds not to exist? Is the intention to hire somebody to do this? So, two parts. Thanks. Yeah, a job description hasn't been developed. I think we've, you know, in the past, we've considered whether or not we have a housing coordinator for the town. So I think, you know, there are examples out there, but we don't have one specifically yet. And right now there are no other funds for this position. So it's something that, you know, we think is, as Dave said, it's a, I don't want to say it's a trial, but it's a three-year position. And it's something that the town would use CPA money for at this point. And, you know, I think after, you know, if, you know, if awarded in, if after three years we could, you know, then have a time to reflect and see what's the, you know, the right approach for funding this position. But for now it's, it's only a CPA request. Thank you, Nate. You provided the information I needed to hear regarding the question. Anyone else? I'll ask one little final question. Is it possible to use ARPA funds for this position? I don't know, but that would be a Sean Mangano question or a Sonia question. It's possible. Yeah. ARPA funds can be used for, can be used for anything the government can spend money on. There's one category of eligible uses. There's some restrictions on it, but, but it could be part of that housing bucket potentially. Thank you. As could, just real quick, as could many other projects just to round that. Yeah, many other CPA projects or just in general things that. Anything again that there's, there's lots of different eligibility criteria, but one of them is general government expenditures. Okay. All right. All right. I think we are done then with the town of Amherst proposals. So thank you. You can stay on if you want. But I think now we can invite Chad, is that right? Into the, into the meeting to speak to the John C. Nutting building envelope preservation project. You're muted. Welcome. Hi there. Just went through a little warp when he was bringing me. Thank you very much for having me. My name is Chad Howard. I'm with the Amherst Housing Authority. I'm the asset manager with the housing authority. Amherst housing is seeking approximately $88,000 in CPA funds to supplement a building project, a preservation project of a housing development that we have off of East Pleasant Street on Chestnut Court. It's the John Nutting apartment complex. It is an 18 unit congregate style apartment building, five group homes that house 18 individual congregate units, specifically designated under the 689 development. It's a state development for congregate living for disability, individuals with disabilities. And this approximately 6,000 square feet of siding at these two housing buildings. And we'd like to reside these buildings. We've maintained them since the building was originally built in 1980. And it's reaching its end of its useful lifespan. And we'd like to partner with CPA in the preservation of those apartment buildings. We have secured 50% of our estimated budget through the Department of Housing and Community Development, DHCD, our capital funds that are allocated to the housing authority. And we would like to partner with CPA to potentially undertake this much needed construction project, preservation project. Thank you. Any questions from the committee? Andrew? Thanks, Sarah. You re-muted somehow. Sorry about that. So one thing I was wondering about this relative to CPAC is that is this really a community housing project to renovate a structure? And so that's Chad. Maybe you can answer that or just someone else on the committee. But this one seemed a little bit different to me than going out and acquiring property or adding net new units to assist with housing. I'm just trying to understand how this fits into the rules. Thanks, Andrew. Yeah, I believe you know, development is certainly an eligible activity for community housing, but preservation also is an eligible activity. And I would say that, you know, we're prolonging the lifespan of existing housing, preserving the existing housing. So we have, there is precedent where this type of project, it's not exactly, I wouldn't classify it as a renovation per se, but certainly a construction project for preservation of existing housing. I know that that is an eligible activity. Okay, I mean, because whatever saw it, what had popped in my mind was more historic preservation than community housing, which to your point is something within CPAC. So I'm not sure if it fits more squarely within that or not, but I don't know whether any of the any other members of the committee or Sonia or Sean could help provide some clarity. Thanks. Sonia is unmuted, so she's ready. Yeah, I'm ready. I'll resend out the allowable project spending chart, but on there for housing, there is preservation, protect personal or real property from injury harm or destruction. So it is covered under there. And we have done that, there is precedence from that. Under community housing or under community housing? Okay, very good. Thanks. Is that it? All right. Anna, welcome and go ahead, you're muted there. I think Tim was ahead of me though. Sorry. I don't even see. Oh, there you are. Okay. People move. Gosh. Tim. Do you want me to go for that one? Okay. Go ahead, Tim. Is this a common kind of request that this committee will receive every single year? Because there are many projects in need of, quote, his preservation renovation. And then if we kick this down the can, are we going to have it compete against others the next year and the next year and the next year? Or is this an unusually like unique project that that we're asked to consider? Yeah, we have partnered with CPA. I believe the last CPA grant that we did receive was in 2014's grant cycle, if I remember correctly. And so it's not, I'd say the need is great for the housing authority. But we don't, you know, we don't always reach out to CPA for this type of need. We thought that this project particularly fit well with the goals of the town and the CPA and within, you know, eligible activities that would function with a CPA grant. So that was kind of the root. It's not the first time that we've come to CPA and but we haven't applied for this type of funding each and every year. Okay. I was somewhat asking if we determined there are greater needs this year and we punt for this one to the next year. We're going to have two or three others next year that we have to consider as well. And we keep punning and punning and punning. That was kind of the just to my question, maybe somebody else on the committee can ask, answer that question. I'm just not familiar with how this would would fit with other projects. I think Sarah Eisinger wants to say something. Well, I was just going to say, I mean Chad said it, but I've been on the committee for three or four cycles and I've been in a request like this. So I don't think they stack up the requests that we've already seen are pretty familiar and pretty routine for us. You heard from, so, you know, when we're talking about evaluating the proposals, we can have that conversation more amongst ourselves. But for me, this is the first time I've been on the committee to see, you know, to me, this would be deferred maintenance or just a regular, this is like a maintenance asset management kind of project to upkeep an existing asset. It's obviously critical that it get done, but right. It's the first time I've seen that. Thank you. All right, now to Anna. Thanks. Hi Chad, can you tell us a little bit about if this project or how this project can also help us reach some of our sustainability goals. I know that's not the purpose of this, but when we think about building envelopes, when we think about, you know, how we're updating and renovating our spaces, I'm curious if any thought has been given to the sustainability and component of this project. And if so, what thought has been given to that? Sure. Well, I'd say just by nature, I mean, you know, our footprint would certainly be decreased in the sense of being able to upgrade a failing asset per se. You know, when we partnered with CPA, we actually was at the same property several years ago, and we had put in, you know, we had converted gas boilers, fossil fuel boilers to electric and we had installed solar. Now, I think that in my sense, it's kind of like the next step. We will be increasing, and our value, we will be, you know, tightening up the building envelope in general. But I think from beyond that, I think that that's about the extent of sustainability that I think it's significant, but that's about what this project has to offer on that realm. Yeah, that checks out. I was curious if the our value was going to increase. I was, and I apologize, I'm looking back through it now. I just wanted to check, are you replacing it with wood again? Well, that we would like wood, you know, rigid foam with sheathing and vinyl is also an option for cost. Lumber costs are extremely high currently. So our current model of estimate is with foam insulation, sheathing, and vinyl siding. Great. Thank you. Dave, you want to add something? No. Your hand is up, Dave. So, great. Yeah, just really quickly, I just to make sure everybody's aware that the housing authority units, of course, are for low and moderate income people in our community. They're also permanently protected, if you will. I mean, there are restrictions on those properties. So, and as Chad mentioned, we, as the town, have funded the housing authority in two categories, at least that I know of. One is CPA dollars, but also is through community development block grant dollars in years past for projects like this. So, just wanted to put that out there. Nate, again, has been coordinating that effort for probably the last 10 years working with the housing authority on various projects. Thanks. Thanks, Sam. Yes, thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Chad. My comment is a follow up to Andy's inquiry of the committee regarding eligibility. I had a similar question or internal thought process that I attribute to you, Andy, but I did locate in the plan under eligibility for community housing. It happened to fall on my printout on the subsequent page. So, at first, I thought it wasn't there. The maintenance and repairs of existing affordable housing units that require repairs, upgrades or renovation for code compliance. So, it was under the eligibility section E, rehabilitate. That was my internal response to the question I asked myself, similar to yours. That's just my aside. A question for you, Chad. I'm not sure if you have the information at present. Is there a general maintenance budget affiliated with the property? My assumption is that it's spread out over all housing authority properties, but I'm curious if there's any budget allocation for these types of activities. Yes, Sam. Certainly is. I do not have the public budget before me, but the 689 development, John Nutting is one of two physical properties that we own under that 689 development. It does have its own allocation of maintenance funds annual, within the annual budget. So, I don't have the figure before you, but that certainly has contributed to the 40-year lifespan of this original siding that is on the building now and the means that we would proceed to continue to maintain the new siding that we plan to put on. Thank you. And I'd also like to thank Anna for her prior question regarding our values, et cetera, because it didn't bring it to my attention or prompted you to respond that you're considering foam insulation. I was going to ask about insulation once I heard Anna's question. So, it's good to hear from you, Chad, that that's a component of the project just for my own deliberation on all the different projects. Thank you. Thank you. I have a question, and then that's probably, then we'll wrap it up, I think. If CPA does not recommend this award, will you lose your DHCD funding? Yeah, not entirely. We need prior appropriation of the full construction estimate in order to go out to bid on this, but that 87,000 won't go away. It'll just restrict us from being able to move forward with this project at this time, and we would need to seek other funds. Right now, it would probably, quite frankly, just come down to delaying this project to a future fiscal year. When it would cost more, no doubt. Correct, and reevaluate funding available to us. Okay, but you could still make use of the DHCD? Certainly. That 87,000 is a member of our overall capital improvement plan that is annually revised. So, that's our money, and it's allocated towards this project. It's not easy to pull that away from this project. We've identified it as a need, and certainly that 87,000 will remain towards this project until we're able to complete the funding. Okay, thank you very much. I don't see any more hands. So, thank you, Chad. I think we're done. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. Any of our other guests want to stay or leave? They may. We're going to turn to other business. Sonia or Sean, do you have to take them out of the room if they wish to leave? I don't know. That's a Sean question. Yeah, he said he was the tech guy, so where is he? I'll work on it. Oh, okay. All right, then let's move on. Concluded the presentations for tonight, so our next item is public comment. Do we have anyone in the audience? Do we have an audience? Looks like we have no attendees. Is that right? Okay. All right, in that case, we will move on to review draft letter to council. I hope you all had a look at this. I hope it's clear what my concerns are. The number of requests this year, the very large dollar value of those requests and our limited funds, and then how our decisions, any input we could get from council that will make sure we are not proposing things that they're just going to reject, I think that would be helpful to us. So one of my questions is to ask for any guidance about what priority the council wants to give to housing projects since they've recently passed this comprehensive housing policy. And using CPA funds is one of the strategies. Is there anything specific for us to know or be aware of because of that policy? So I know Kathy's out there not looking for answers, but this is something I would like to put in front of council to see if they want to say anything. Maybe they don't want to say anything and just let us use our best judgment. So and then the other question has to do with somebody has mail okay has to do with the request from the high school to resurface their track as I hope is clear from this letter and the questions and answers that were developed. There was a master plan put together a few years ago for the fields near the schools and one of the central elements of that design was to turn the track 90 degrees which would then allow all the other fields to be reconfigured and relocated. So that was a big element of that plan, but this proposal that we will be looking at I don't know next meeting or the meeting after proposes resurfacing the track where it is now. And because it's such a large amount of money, I think we should be told whether council would not think that's a good idea to sink so much money into something that doesn't comport with the plan or whether the plan is it's just a plan and we don't have to pay attention to it. So that's the purpose of the letter. Does anyone have anyone on the committee have a question or suggestion about this Andrew? Not a question, but I agree what you proposed. I think the track was one that really jumped out. I think the letter that you drafted is clear and is important for us to send out. I will want to make it clear we're not asking council to weigh in on specific projects, right? That's our job but just the guidance is to how to interpret that master plan and the comprehensive housing policy. Sam and then Sean. Thank you, Sarah. So I read the letter. I read the thoughts relating to the track and the master plan. I found that to be a well-posed inquiry having seen some of the developments. I know Dave a number of years ago with the recreation committee had the meetings where there were options developed and one of those would be potentially rearranging the fields. And we did give some money in prior years from CPA for the engineering design of that. So that question jumped out at me as well. Regarding general guidance from the council, my own belief or my own posture is that the committee is one that we should be providing recommendations from us to the council as opposed to them recommending to us. I see the committee's charter as one of this is what we consider. I do understand the significance of town priorities such as community housing although I'm not sure if the councils, if there are an appropriate, I don't know if guidance is the right word, advisor relating to which of the different categories the committee thinks. That's just my posture. I like the concept of the committee providing our recommendations based on the project but I understand the inquiry. I might change the word guidance to the council's internal opinions perhaps, meaning just sharing with us their thoughts as opposed to guiding us because I see our role as one of providing recommendations for them to consider. That's my comment. Thank you. I think I see that. All right, Sean, thank you. Thank you. So I'm sort of thinking along the same lines as Sam. I'm a little concerned about the process of asking the council for priorities after submissions have already been sent in. I think clarification is fine but I do feel like it's sort of, if we're going to ask the council for their priorities or their preferences, it'd be good to have that before people submit proposals because people spend a lot of time on these proposals and maybe they come back and say we want a lot of housing projects and that could influence who would have submitted proposals. So that's one concern and then to clarify the school request, I did talk to Doug at the schools who's their business manager and I think you'll get more clarification when they present that project but I don't think they intended for that to preclude turning the field and moving forward with elements of the strategic plan that was put together. I think they're sensing some urgency to complete the track project because it's been a number of years but in talking to them, they're still consideration to turning it and replacing the track in a different orientation. I think they need to move forward with getting cost estimates of what that would be and depending on those cost estimates that might dictate what they do next. And again, I think Doug will provide more clarification on that piece but again, in talking to him, I did not get the impression that the project from the strategic plan was completely dead at this point. What I would feel very badly about is if $800,000 of CPA funds were spent on resurfacing a track that was then demolished four years later in order to turn it. And I understand I'm not at, I don't want council to think we're asking for recommendations about projects but just what do you make of this recreation plan? Like is this something you hope we're going to do? Or so, I mean we could not ask for any suggestions or recommendations or clarifications at all. We haven't in the past but there's so much. We're going to be making some very hard decisions and I want to make sure we are recommending a slate in the end that council will be happy to support. That's really my concern. Dave? Yeah, having worked on that, the plan, the fields plan a few years ago and coming to talk to you all and you, CPAC funding, some of that plan, you know I would agree with Sean and just kind of support where he was going on that. I guess what I would add is I think Doug will be presenting in two weeks on the 10th of November and I wonder if it, does it make sense to hold on that part of the letter until the committee hears more? Sean, Doug and I have met I think twice now to talk through where the town is and where the schools are and I think I think we're in a pretty good place and I think we would, Sean and I will both be there on the 10th to support Doug and make sure there's clarity about where we're headed on the field project and absolutely Sarah, none of us would ever want to spend $800,000 and then four or five years later say, oh we need to, now we're going to implement the master or the overall plan for the fields. We would, we would never do that. I think that would be terribly irresponsible. So I don't know if there's an opportunity to, does it make any sense to hold on the letter until the committee has more information from Doug? I just put that out there. I'll get to Sarah in a moment. I would just say that council's very busy and it only meets every other week so and if we're going to make, start making our decisions after that, you know starting the next meeting after we've heard from Doug and all the other rec projects, there isn't any time for council to, to provide any clarification or input. Maybe I should just call input. So if we're, if we think we might want input, I think we got to ask for it now. But, but maybe the hope, maybe it's just not necessary. But I don't, I don't think it'll be helpful to send them the letter, you know, the week before Thanksgiving. Sarah Isaac. Yeah, what I was going to say is I think in the past, Sarah, when we've had, we sort of come to a bring, a moment of brinksmanship, we've sort of asked someone to come back in like a content expert like Dave or I think John Hornick has come back on some and we've, we've gotten that specific. We've asked those kinds of questions. I'm wondering if we want to just have the process play out and hear the track proposal. And then do our process and see where we end up and then maybe call back experts back in. Is it your concern? I guess, does that not satisfy you? Is that not feeling like those experts from the town, are they, are you not feeling like that's aligning potentially with the council? Is that, are you seeing a difference there? Well, specifically with the housing policy, that is something that council just formerly, formally adopted, I think in September. And I have no idea. None of us do. What, if anything, does that change in any way what they expect from CPA in the way it has or I mean, I guess we could say, well, you should have told us if it did, you know, my point is, I think we have representatives here who are advocating in the best interests of the town and guy and helping guide us. That's my point. I see. Okay. All right. John. Obviously, I can't speak for town council. But as you pointed out, Sarah, just a little over a month ago, town council did adopt the new comprehensive town housing policy. And it includes a clear, clearly stated goal of adding 250 new affordable housing units. So I don't know what you would say in the letter rather than, did you really mean it? I think they did. Well, what it has, what council has not done is say, as far as I can tell, and this trumps all of our other concerns for how CPA money is spent. That's all. Kathy's here. I don't know if she wants to say anything feels it's appropriate or not, but I would welcome Yes. Hello. I can. I just see Tim's hand went up. So I'll wait. Okay, Tim, you're muted. Tim. Okay, I'm going to go back a number of years when I was on the finance committee and we were doing a lot of work on the four capital projects in town. And we never as far in my opinion had guidance from the town in terms of what they might determine priorities. And that made our light and to me, that made some difficulty in terms of trying to decide perhaps the order which the projects might be introduced, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm just using that lesson. And again, I'm a newbie on this committee, but having some guidance in terms of what is the overall town priorities, I think would be extremely helpful, at least to this person, in terms of making some judgments in terms of competing projects and priorities. So when I read the letter, I thought that was an excellent thing to ask that the the town council to provide us is the general guidance. I mean, do they really feel housing is a number one top priority and so on and so forth. So that would be just my few comments. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Kathy, do you have anything to say? It's all Sean's hand. Yeah. Yeah, Sean's hand. Maybe I'll, I'm gonna wait for Sean because I'll, I have to use my, say my words very carefully, Sarah. So I am just a liaison. There's been a lot of discussion on that. Can I go, Sarah? Is that okay? Yes, please. I just think it would be really hard for the council to give those priorities without knowing the specific projects. I think they're gonna have a hard time. I think they do value housing tremendously, but I think it's gonna be hard for them to say above all other categories without knowing the, without getting into the projects in those other areas. So again, that's one reason I think it'll be challenging for them to give guidance without getting to that, to that level of detail. Okay. Thank you. All right. You don't have to say anything. I'll just say a little bit. I think because the housing policy paper was passed, you have a sense that that is a priority, but it didn't say just CPA money, CPAC money. It said, you know, ARPA money, get, grab federal money, grab state money, you know, bring, bring it in. So it didn't specify sources. And it was not in the context of what else is a priority. So I think asking for this, and especially if you have the track where it has never come before the council before. So it would be asking for information that no one would have except for a few of us who went and saw, oh, there was a $6 million plan. How did we think that would happen? You know, I mean, some of us read the big document and I go, where'd this come from? But, you know, we have a joint capital planning committee where regional might come in, but the big, big one in is the elementary school, which is going to be coming in. So this is one among many. I think you could be, I think you could be quiet on this right now and make a judgment among your competing proposals for the dollars. And I have no idea whether you've ever done anything like come in with, here's your recommendation, but in the wings, you have alternatives in terms of a mix, because I can't remember in the time I've been on the council where anyone went back and looked at the projects you didn't take. You know, there was, there was more, a lot of discussion about the merits of some you've presented. I mean, all of us can go and look at the whole gamut. So, so right now, the other thing the council did weigh in on in the, a few months ago was the notion of participatory budgeting. It allowing residents of the town to come up with ideas and one of the places they can come to is CPAC. There aren't a lot of places that are flexible. And the council kind of said, yeah, that is a good place, you know, within the categories you can fund. So I don't think the notion is above everything else. So I think I would just, if you want to send a letter, I would do it very carefully, but I can't imagine what will, I guess I'll say, I can't imagine what we'll do with it right now. Because the agendas I've seen coming up, I mean, we're about to do the whole budget and, you know, the indicators, and then we go into, you know, before we know it, it's December and it's giving. So I'm not sure you would get feedback that would be helpful as opposed to going through your own process. So I'll just, that's me giving a, I'm on the finance committee too. So it's, I see it through two pieces for this, this money that sits out there that everyone looks over and say, oh, you have a lot of money that you can be spending on behalf of all of us, you know. So I think, I think I would just really weigh the sets you have here, which is a pretty rich set. It's, I think it's healthy this year, you have a lot more than you can spend in a few years. You've been, you know, stretching yourself, say, you know, so I think it's kind of a healthy mix you've got tough to make decisions. And I'll stop. Okay, thank you. I think, I think then that I would like to just withdraw this letter. I think the time, yeah, it's, it is very late in the year. That's just when we have to do our process. But I think at this point, Kathy is in a good position to, to say that it's unlikely that we would get healthy feedback. Okay, so, so what I would say though, I mean, Sean's idea, if, if you want that this spring meeting, when you're looking before you've done the request for next year's proposals, if you want to see whether there is anything that would be, you know, this year we're particularly interested in would be a way you could be framing, you know, if, if you wanted to do that, but doing it in advance, so you were sending the word out to the broader community, would might make sense if that was something the committee wanted to do. Okay. All right. Thank you. So unless there's strong objection, I will draw this letter and we will move on. I only have a follow-up. I don't have an objection, but I'm wondering based on the subject being raised, if it might be beneficial to, since it's, whether it even be somebody who's proposing community housing, I don't know if they have submitted the town's recent vote or vote relating to community housing, perhaps the committee members could simply read what was referenced in that prioritization of community housing. You mean housing policy? Sure. Yeah. I'm just, I'm just suggesting that as a possibility, the relevant section just for members to look at. That's all. That's all. All right. Okay. So on to, so we'll throw that away and go on to minutes from August, which I took. And I think some people had already sent me little comments. So if we can have a motion to accept them and then we can talk about them. Thank you. I move that we accept the minutes. That's Sam. All right. Is there a second? Andrew, are you seconding? I'll second. Put your hands up for, all right. Does anybody have anything to add or change with respect to the, Heddy, I see your hands. Sorry, I was just raising it to accept minutes. Oh, okay. We're not, we're not actually voting on it. We just can't talk about it formally, you know, until there's a second in motion. So. Can I confirm? Yes. I was not at the meeting. I am abstaining. Is that correct? I have been told that you don't have to abstain. You can go to accept the minutes. It's an incorrect impression. Thank you for clarifying. I mean, why not? Why would you protest, basically? I just can't speak to their validity. Right, right. Well, it's all on tape. Okay, so I'm just going to say all those. I guess I have to do a roll call. I'm going to take now, ask you if you approve the, if you're in favor of the, proving the minutes. Dave, you approve the minutes? Yes. Yes, thank you. Tim, if you want to vote. I was going to, after that last comment, I was going to abstain because I'm, I'm going to abstain because I. Okay, you may, you may. It's fine. Andrew. I was actually going to abstain because I left this one early after like a couple of minutes for the fair that didn't even happen. So. Oh, right. Well, let me put it this way. If we don't get at least four votes, the arm is not going to pass. So you're abstaining. All right, Anna. I'm going to say yes. I. Katie. I. Is Sarah still there? Sarah Eisinger? She's having internet issues before it's possible she got bumped again. Okay. Sam? I. Heady. I'll abstain. Okay. All right. Well, and I'm voting. I. So, two, three, four. Actually, there are nine of us. I need, we need five. If Sarah Eisinger is no longer in the meeting, does that change the quorum total? We're down to eight. So no, it would be a, I mean, that's not it. It's exactly half. So. Are you sure we don't have five? Dave. Anna. Katie. Sam. Sarah. Yes, we do have five. We do have five. We do. Okay. Good. I couldn't read my own handwriting. Thank you. All right. So the next thing, the financials. We get to see what we know about the money. Do you want Sean to share something or yes he is? Okay. Not much has changed from last time. There's just some more firm numbers. So fiscal year 22, we're still in fiscal year 22. So the bottom line on that is an estimate. We will most likely take in more in surcharge than the million, but we're conservative in our estimates. So right now we have 686.72 coming in from estimated for the end of this fiscal year, which will carry over into the new year. Again, we estimate our surcharge and what the state's going to be in. I put the state at 20% this year. They came for 22. They came in at 32%. But we can't count on that every year. So new revenue will be a million too. That brings us to 1.8, almost 1.9 million. And then we have about 500,000 in debt, 488, 720. And that debt's firm. And that is on the, there's more detail on that. I think I sent the sheet out of debt for more detail on that if people wanted to look at it. We did go out for permanent bonding. So a couple of things move from bands to bonds. And that leaves us with about 1.4 million for new proposals. However, you still have the 600,000 that we have as budgeted reserve. If you commit to using that, then you'd have about 2 million. But once you commit to using that for this year, it's no longer available in 22 if something comes up. So I just want you to think about that. It's kind of like free cash. You use it, it's gone. As of June 30th, it goes away and it has to be revoted in the next year if there's excess budgeting. Is it possible for us, just wondering, there's $600,000 in the reserve, but we could take out $400,000 of it? Or do we have to take it all if we want to use it? That's up to the committee. But it's possible. I always encourage keeping a budget reserve, because something could come up and if you don't have a budgeted reserve, then you'd have to borrow the only way you're going to be able to fit in a project within the fiscal year that you need it is if you have a reserve to go through or you're going to have to borrow. All right. So I imagine that for the new folks, this may be quite mysterious because we're going to be deciding on how to spend the FY23 month. And we don't even know exactly what we've gotten for FY22. And we've already made all the decisions. Just like the regular operating budget. That's how it works. Right. So we try not to spend it all because we're not even sure we're going to get it all. So in any case, the number to keep it. If you make good faith efforts, that's what you can set your budget on. All right. So we have no decisions tonight. This is just information. Right. So probably safe to say that we have a minimum of $1.4 million. A minimum, a maximum of $2 million. Yeah. Okay. All right. Anybody have, well, the agenda says decide on budget amount, but I don't think, do we need to? No. No, not at all. I just. Okay. Before I ask Tim to speak, can you just tell us our numbers, any of the FY23 estimates, anything likely to change over the next two months when we're making our recommendations? Typically, not unless the state tells us that we can have a higher percentage or a lower, they're estimating a higher percentage or a lower percentage for their state match to come back in. If that happens, then yes, it will change. If I've closed most of the balances, I've closed all the balances and I know I could close based on. You mean for older projects? For older projects. They didn't use all their money. Yeah. Right. So if you look on their sheet in 22, you'll see return to preparations closed. Closed in 22. It's 87,978. That added to that. I doubt there'll be any older, any more old articles that are going to close in this fiscal year. So it's a pretty firm number. The only flexible number is the state. So Tim, you had a question. Yeah, I was just going to make sure I was clear on this. The letter that you just withdrew referred to the fact that we had about 3.6 and requests and available about 2.1. We're now saying we're going to have available a range from like a minimum of 1.4 to around 2 million. Is that a fair conclusion of what we just talked about? Yeah. Okay. Yes. And the reason it was hard is the last estimate that I put out was really, really a rough estimate just to get that helps. That helps us. Yeah. So task even harder. Okay. Thank you. Sean. Yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to make the committee aware. So the African Heritage Reparation Assembly group. It's the committee that's studying reparations in Amherst. They just started meeting and one of the sources of funding they may look to is CPA in the future. They know that they are, you know, they sort of missed the window for CPA for this cycle of CPA for next July 1st, just based on the timing of when the committee was formed. But they may come back with a request for like the reserve. So if you have that budget reserve, they may come off cycle with a request to access that reserve. So I just wanted to make you aware of that. So you're not surprised that that comes up. What CPA eligible kind of... John, I can tell like maybe... Yeah, if you want to go ahead, Anna. I was going to say, so this is, I mentioned that they should look at CPA because here, and here's the story behind it. The food bank farm out in Hadley that Hadley and then the conservation land that was in Amherst. So one of the things that they're looking into is leasing land back to black farmers in an effort for reparative justice to kind of restore that land that was stolen from black farmers. And so in terms of CPA funds, there could be a variety of uses. I think they're looking at it as open space and agriculture primarily, but that was one of the things that they started looking at. I don't know where that conversation has gone. It also could go within historic preservation depending on what they find. I mean, it really could go... I don't think that they, as far as I know, and Sean, this is where I'll toss it back to you, but I think that it could go a variety of directions depending on what type of reparative justice work they decide they would like to look to. Yeah, they're looking at reparations broadly at this point. There's sort of direct payments, but then there's also broader expenditures and projects that they're looking at that would be supportive. So I think what Anna said is exactly right. Okay. Any other questions on the numbers? Okay. Thank you. So Sonia, we have already then heard about update on prior year project balances or those the activity reports. You're muted again. Well, I'm pretty much assuming that all the activity reports that went to the committee along with the report that I sent out with the balances was sufficient. I didn't think we were going to sit through and go through each one. No, no. I just don't wonder if it's on the agenda, if that's what that item is referring to, update on prior year project balance. Yeah, that was part of the agenda that I got sent. Right. Okay. So I'm very glad that those activity reports, that's now a thing, and we're going to have those once a year, right? And I notice, of course, they didn't go out to the projects that were just awarded because they had all of like three months maybe in which to start spending money. So we will hear about FY22 awards in a year. Yeah. Good. I have no topics that I didn't reasonably anticipate. Does anybody have any suggestions or requests for future agenda items? We'll be hearing more presentations next time, of course. And maybe some minutes by then to have this meeting to review, but don't push it. Don't push it. All right. All right. Okay. Well, there's one question. So the minutes that are in the packets tonight, those are the final minutes, and I can post them. Yes. I don't remember if I had to draft, Petter, or if you want to just send me the final with the vote on it, then I'll post it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I've never done that. Well, all right. So we will be meeting a week from today to hear, I forget which set of projects is next. The must be the historic preservation. Yes. Must be next. Okay. All right. There's a circle on the back of the agenda for everyone. Sam? Okay. All right. Thank you. Sam? Oh, I just wanted to again welcome Tim and Hedy to the committee. All right. Then I think we can adjourn. Thank you, everybody, for your time. And we'll see you in a week. Everyone. Thank you. Good night.