 Today's episode of the Michelle Show is brought to you by USGoldCoins.com, 1-800-HOTCOIN and MEZZIGRILL, MEZZIGRILL.COM and TRADEHILL.COM. Hi guys, welcome to the second episode of the Michelle Show. Today's Tuesday, July 19th, and boy, do we have a hot topic for you today. Today's topic is the subject of Going Dutch, also known as Splitting the Bill, and who's writing, who's wrong? I mean, women and men have completely different opinions on this topic. It's affected all of us at one point, and I thought it was important to have an open conversation with a number of people just to get a different opinion, and hopefully it'll give you some guidance as to how to make the decision next time you're in the situation. Joining me today is Edgar. Hello. Bruce Wagner. Hello. Chris Diego. Hey. And the founder of DeadSmart.com, the money king himself, Scott. Scott Bilker. Scott Bilker. Yeah. I'm Joe. Hello everybody. Glad to be here. I noticed, I'm sorry, I have to notice that it's all boys you got here. I got all boys here today because I have enough to say about the topic for all the women in the audience. You can speak for all women. I can speak for all women, definitely. This is a very, it's a layered topic because it doesn't just affect dating. It also affects how we approach the group scenario. What happens when you go to dinner or go out to a nightclub with a group of people and suddenly the bill comes, it's over $1,000. Not everybody ate or drank the same amount and somebody usually leaves the party being really upset. They're all on the behalf of them or in the bathroom all of a sudden. I was in there for the alcoholics and I don't drink. I was telling Chris earlier that I have a knack for I can spot when the waiter's coming and I just say, oh, excuse me, I'll be right back and I go to the restroom for 30 minutes. That is just wrong. That is just wrong. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But Scott, a number of years ago, Scott actually did a survey on trends along the lines of this topic and how people approach the group scenario. And I think he has some really interesting insight as to what the protocol is. When you find yourself in that situation, how do you make the decision? When the check comes as to who pays what, what do you think, Scott? Well, I mean, the best thing to do really is think about it before you go. What a lot of people do is they'll even ask the server when they approach the table whether they can do separate checks. But if you're just going and you don't know ahead of time, you kind of want to prepare yourself by knowing who you're going with. Because you don't want to be upset with your friends. But isn't it kind of an uncomfortable topic to the point where people just don't even bring it up to their friends? Who puts in the call to the rest of the group to say, how are we going to manage the situation? Well, typically no one does. But there are other protocols. If you invite everyone out to some type of event, then you might have more responsibility depending on that kind of an event. However, if it's just everyone getting together for dinner, what you want to do is kind of survey what people are eating or what people are going to order. Because in the event that you're going to split the tip with the entire dinner with everyone, if everyone orders around the equal amount, then if they split the tip evenly, you're all right. But if you're there trying to eat on a budget and you're ordering like a salad and I'm ordering filet mignon and lobster tail and a few drinks, the person who orders the salad is paying for my great meal. So if you're the one that's on the budget, kind of get a feel for everyone wants. You can just easily say as you're looking through the menu, so what interests you? If someone's like, well, I'm going to have the filet mignon, then you might be like, is that your cue to order the lobster? Is that your cue to order the lobster when the guy next to you is ordering the filet mignon? When they're ordering like 10 shots of something, then you want to think about what you're ordering. You're just drinking iced tea. Yeah. I'll have 10 shots. I'll start with two. Yeah. Well, you know, I've been in this situation before where we're out with a group and maybe it's multiple couples. And suddenly there's always one or two guys that get up and go to the bathroom, you know, when the check is coming. I mean, am I the only person this has happened to? No, no. People also leave early. They're like, oh, I'm sorry. I got to go somewhere. Kiss, kiss, kiss. They're great to see you. Right. And they just take off. Here's $10. And it's like because what I ordered was $10 or something. And yeah, they take off. But what do we want to describe what we do? Because we have this Sunday brunch ritual that we do every single week. And it's always different people, different group of people. I wanted you to explain how we do that. Well, it's not that strange. I don't think we pretty much all get along and we know that everyone pretty much covers most of their bill. And every so often, yeah, I have to pay a few more dollars. But for me, four or five dollars is not the same as paying a whole meal for someone. That's just paying an extra little tip. But what we do is like, we kind of make it a ritual because we do it every week. We just make it a ritual. We have this little formula based on the sales tax and the tip in New York. It's what is it, 1.25. So we just say whatever your total is times 1.25 and that's what you leave. That should include a nice, you know, like a 17% tip or something or more, or 17.5. And the tax and tip. So with that, we're able to, so we actually, somebody's like designated calculator and they're like, what did you have? And we literally added up for each person, what did you have? This, this, this. So we added up and multiplied by 1.25. And then everybody knows their total. And that covers the tip. Yeah, it includes the tax and the tip. That's the important thing is that people have to know it. You've got to include the tax and the tip. Well, that's a great approach because you're going to include the tip if you include that 25% extra. Right. And in their particular Sunday brunch scenario, Scott, they have this event every Sunday, pretty much. So it's the same group of people. They understand each other. They know each other's constraints. And, you know, it's not an uncomfortable topic. But I find that more often than not, we're put in a situation where you're with a new group or there are new people in the group and it just becomes, you know, it becomes a topic of conversation after the event where you're calling up your friends and saying, what was up with that guy? He got up and went to the bathroom. Yeah. Or so-and-so, you know, eight, $50 worth of food and didn't pay nearly as much as everyone else. Yeah. If you have a situation where you don't know everyone who's there, then it's going to really complicate things. And then you have to decide, really, who's going to take responsibility because when the bill comes, you know, whoever touches it first is now going to be responsible for all the math and collection or deciding on what's going on or you can try to pass it around and everyone puts in, you know, what they want or sometimes people will kind of just dictate like, you know, everyone throwing this much. But it can also work in reverse. I've been in situations where, like, I'll pay with my credit card and it gives me cash and I'll end up with more money than I had. Yeah. That's a rarity. When the credit card bill comes, you're not so happy. You know, I've actually seen people do this. It's so weird. But, you know, we've seen people do that. Like, I don't know the psyche, whatever, but actually not order, like, oh, no, no, no, I'm not hungry. I'm not going to have anything. And then-or they'll just have, like, a little tiny thing. I'll just have a cup of soup. That's it. Somebody else has this huge meal. And then, like, two-thirds of it is left over. And they're like, oh, well, there's plenty. No, help yourself. And then they, like, eat half of it. You know? And it's like, okay, this is interesting. Because they ate half of this, you know, whatever, $25 dinner. And then the bill comes and they're like, oh, no, I only had my little cup of soup. I had a friend like that. Yeah, we should go-every time. We should go on to the diner. Anyone need-are you serious? Eight of us. He would, like, no, I'm okay. And then he would just eat the leftovers. He would finish everybody's thing. It made me sick. I caught him on pig ones. I've never even-I've never even heard of that. That's a totally new scenario. You see? There's a twist. No, I've actually-I've run across that scenario. And, you know, that, again, kind of depends. I mean, if you ask, hey, can I have some of that and eat half the meal? Well, then you should pay something. But at the same time, I've had, you know, people are like, you know, I don't want any more of this, you know? Does anyone want some? And if they give it away, well, then they give it away. Whoever-whoever else is there really doesn't need to pay for it. Yeah. Okay, so let's move on to the real controversial topic. The most controversial topic. Wait, wait, wait. I wanted to add to that part where there's another scenario where I think you're-well, I have two scenarios, but one of them is when someone who ever ate the most usually suggests at the very end, why don't we just split it all halfway? Like, if there's ten people, split it into ten, it's like, I'm the first one to raise my hand and say absolutely not. You're five drinks, you know? You don't ask for that after the fact. You should, like you said, agree beforehand. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing is that if, like, you know, when people go out to eat, they, you know, I guess with us, they always come to me and then I, you know, itemize everything at the end and I give them the bill. But there's always someone in the group that wants to, like, I don't know, like- Split the bill evenly. Well- If they've had to- Like, yeah, it happens like that. You know, you're trying to be frugal and you're like, I'm just going to have a solid. You know, I've got a budget and it's an expensive restaurant or whatever the thing is and then somebody's like, okay, I'm going to have drinks and hors d'oeuvres and appetizers and meals and all these things and dessert and drinks and drinks and then let's just split it in four ways. Is that okay? Yeah. Wait a minute. Yeah, well, what I was going to say was that like, I know this is kind of tacky on my part but like if I'm- but if I'm paying then I think I have the choice to decide how much I'm going to spend on whoever I'm inviting. Right. I mean, I try to be, you know, nice but sometimes if I have a budget then I have a budget. So, like, I'll go to a specific place because they have a certain special and I'll say, well, we're all going to order the special today and this is what we're all going to have. He does. And then that's the way I know for sure that I'm only going to spend so much money and it always works out well. So that works pretty well. Well, just to add to that, like one time I had a birthday party. I didn't want anyone to feel like they had to contribute to the bill because I invited them and I didn't want any awkwardness. So I invited them to one of my favorite restaurants in New York City that actually offers a pre-fixed menu for that kind of event. Right. So that way you can completely control what they drink and what they eat even though they will have a variety to choose from. Right. And there is no awkwardness. If anything, at the end, when my guests saw that I was trying to pay the bill, they were rushing up to me trying to contribute to the bill. Right. I didn't take anybody's money that day but maybe next time I will. Yes, of course. Yes, of course. It's a plan that stands in advance. You know, if you can do something like that, plan in advance, that's always your best scenario. Now, in the study that I did and the survey that I did, I found that 37% of people said that they do split the bill. 31% said they have separate tabs. So for the most part, you're going to be in that, you know, almost 70% in that group of either splitting the bill or having separate tabs. I always, my philosophy is when you go into that situation, assume everyone's going to just split the bill. Yeah. That way you know what to order. You can always bring it home. You know, if you're like, ah, you know what, I'll have that tiramisu to go. If you're like, we're splitting the bill and you know you ordered five bucks with the stuff, say, you know what, I'll have that tiramisu to go. Bring me over to that. Yeah. Just kind of try to plan for that in advance. A lot of the time, everyone just put money in and that'll work out fine too. I mean, if you know what you purchased, you can keep a mental tab yourself and when everyone asks for money, say, you know, just give them what it should be and that's it. Right. I mean, a big factor in this, Scott, is everybody's income situation. Right. You know, the amount of money that everybody's making and it's important, I think, also to be sensitive. You know, if you're with a group of people where you know each other and you know, maybe you know that not everybody in the group is going to be making the same amount of money, you want to be sensitive to other people's financial situation. Right. So if you know that you're the broke one in the group, you don't need to be ordering filet mignon under any circumstances, right? Yeah. Unless you can put the tab and not whine about it, yes. Right. Correct. And also, I think, also too, if you're the rich one in the group, it's important to be sensitive to the people who you know are making minimum wage or they're unemployed for a long time. They could barely even, they just want to hang out with you, but they don't have money to be eating out. Right. And so, to not go to the four-star, five-star places and to, you know, be sensitive of the place you start out with. I agree. You're going to pay $8 for a cheeseburger, not $80, right? I agree. I agree. Another option is, like, a lot of co-workers will go out to lunch and it might be the same co-workers going all the time, maybe just a few, two or three. In that case, you know, one day, one person picks up the tab, another day, another person picks up the tab and everyone looks and feels great about doing it and in the end, it pretty much will equal out because people will go to places they could afford for everybody. Yeah. The other scenario, I think also that happens a lot, I think in our group, which we don't ever end up paying for one specific person, but like I was saying, I'll end up paying like $2 or $3 extra or even $10 and it's because people don't tip equally. Right. And if I think that we got great service, I'm always going to tip 20% on my part of the bill, but then these other people, some of them, they think that it's not noticed that they're not tipping at all and how the heck are you going to know that? Right. So you end up short. Right. Well, I think, you know, one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to have this conversation and have this group here with me also is so that from now on, people, when you find yourself in this scenario, you can feel free to call out your friend that rushed to the bathroom to not pay the bill. You can call them out when, you know, they're ordering a dish that's four times the cost of everybody else. You know, have the conversation because it's, that's better. Have the conversation beforehand because somebody's, you know, somebody's behavior during the outing is just outrageous. Call them out on it. That way you avoid having the same, you know, the same problem next time around. You don't want to lose a friendship over somebody's brokenness. Exactly. You're calling them out to keep the friendship. Yeah, exactly. Because a restaurant bill will... A restaurant bill can, you know, can create animosity between people. Yeah. Unfortunately, it happens all the time. Once really. Exactly. And, and then you should definitely let them know. And then the next time you make it for sure that you make separate bills because this person has this behavior pattern that they're probably not going to stop because they've been doing it for a long time usually. I agree with Scott about, I mean, that when you go to, basically, when you go to a restaurant, you should always assume that we're going to have separate tabs. That's, I mean, even though, I would assume that, and I think that's proper. Well, I would assume you're going to split it. Yes, split it, split it one way or the other, but I mean, really, I'm going to pay for what I order. You're going to pay for what you order. I mean, that's how I approach it. And then in the end, if I feel like generous and I say, no, no, no, it's on me, that's cool. If you feel generous and you say, it's on me, then that's a gift. And of course, you know, I accept it or whatever, give it graciously. But it's always, from my part, that way, then you're good. But one, a couple of points I want to make. One is, if you ask for, like physically separate checks, there's often this awkwardness now with the server. They're like, oh, they roll their eyes and like, oh my God, we got 12 people and they all want a separate check. You feel like you're asking for, you know, free lunch. Right, in that case, then that tip goes from 20% to 15, right off the top. Yeah, well, I'm a waiter. Okay, so Chris is a server himself. Sorry, go ahead. I'm saying, if you all came in separately, she'd have 12 server checks. What's the problem? Okay, well now let's get the waiter, the server's perspective, because Chris is a server. This is perfect. Well, when it's big parties, it's funny because it looks like a big table of morons. They're kind of like, why can't you just do the math and why don't you can organize with each other? Because there's a lot of different tables throughout the day and as some people, you could just see it's more of an intellectual status. Like, look how organized they are compared to somebody who, right off the bat, when they walk in, you already know how they're going to, they're going to ask for split checks. The minute they walk in, you can just tell. So, I just feel that, yeah, it's just how you... Yeah, but how do you... So it is a table full of morons when they ask you? Yeah, 100%. Like, why can't you just do the math? I don't understand that. Because I don't have a smartphone. Because you have people that do this kind of stuff. It's really nice when you get a server that comes over and says, hey, you know, is this going to be together or separate checks? Right. And that happens. Yeah, that happens. I always appreciate that. Like I said, if I'm with someone that has done it before, I will insist that they have separate checks. Because it's not fair to everyone else. I mean, I don't mind paying a few dollars, but when everyone else has to take to share, it's not fair. So, it's even when paying the restaurant bill, that's like your reputation. And it could just detrimize your relationship towards people just from how your reputation is. So, it sucks when, yeah, it's a ten dollar meal that you're skipping off of, but you're actually ruining, you know, a lot of it. Well, you're saying that quite possibly what people perceive of you now has changed. So, you could be a great guy with a great personality. You dress well. We think you make money. Exactly. You have this big idea of let's all split the check, and that'll leave some people wondering, you know, what about this guy, Chris? Exactly. Because being cheap is an issue. A lot of people, you know, even in the survey I conducted, you know, a lot of people were upset with those who skipped out or didn't pay their share or, you know, everyone feels that they've been in the situation where that's happened to them. So, you want to guard against that, you can take charge also. You can say, hey, listen, I got the thing, everyone give me whatever. And that's it. Okay, well, you give me this much and you give me that much or something to that effect. That's what I do, because I think that it's like, I mean, it's, on one hand, money is a sensitive thing. People are so sensitive about money. And even if it's a trivial amount, it's two bucks, five bucks, 10 bucks, whatever, sometimes it's not trivial amount, but whatever the amount is, it's so silly to lose a relationship for a silly little thing like this. So, I like to do... You're a cheeseburger, right? Yeah, you're a cheeseburger. So, everyone's got one of these. Everyone's got one of these on the phone. Exactly. It's not too tough. You know, maybe it's too complicated for me, but... You had to end up what it acted, but today, everyone's got a smart phone. Exactly. Well, the fact of the matter is, is that this topic and the whole money situation is the number one reason why people break up in the world. Couples, yeah. Couples, couples are plagued by the money situation. So, this leads me to the next half of this conversation, the most controversial part of this conversation, which is, who should pick up the bill at dinner, at the movies, you know, when you go out on the weekends? I mean, it's different when you've already been in a relationship for some time, because, you know, situations change, financial situations change, and I as a woman, if I'm in a relationship long-term, and let's say the guy was well off when we first started dating, but he's going through issues, and I've lived this. This has happened to me before. I don't have a problem picking up the tab and getting us through a rough spot. So, I think, I want to put that out there because I'm also the kind of woman that does expect the guy to pick up the tab. When you're first dating? When I'm first dating. I mean, like, and I, you know, I have a 16-year-old son, and I teach him that when he goes to the movies, if he's with a girl under no circumstances, so she needs to be reaching into her purse to pay for tickets, meals, or anything else. And if she brings a friend, if she brings a friend, I don't want my son allowing the friend to not pay. Right. If she's bringing a friend, and it's not a date. If she's, well... Well, that's true. Well, but sometimes, sometimes we are in a situation where we're going on a date with our boyfriend and we bring a friend, and then the question is, I mean, I don't think a guy... It's true, too, yeah. I don't think a guy is forced to pay, but it doesn't press the girl and it shows initiative on the man's part, you know, to take the role as the head of the group, and it's just the more manly thing to do. Oh, so old-fashioned. So, Chris, I brought you on the show today. Because you said that you usually go Dutch. On the first date, yeah. On the first date? Through experience, through times where I felt like I've... It's almost like I feel like I'm investing on a girl. Right. You know? And a lot of times, I'm not talking about with sex. I'm talking about with just... Not that. Hey, guys, like, on a blind date, you don't know who this person is. And I've gotten all out, like pulled every card, entertained the cartwheels. Right. And at the end, the girl's like, I'm like, why am I even... And then right there, I'm like, yeah, it just right there, I'm like, all right, we're splitting the check. There's no way. I'm going to continue this. So, wait a minute. So, you mean, like you'll take her to a nice restaurant. You'll try to impress her with, you know, the show you put on that night. I'll tell her five stories. I'll take her around. She's not looking excited by the end of the day. She's pain. Half. Half. Yes. 100%. I'm like, then I start feeling like I'm the prize. You start feeling like you're the prize. Yeah, I have no idea. You know, why should I be with her? You know, I feel like the whole, it's a thin line between being a gentleman and being a chump. I agree. I agree. And I'll put that out there. I think even though I have an expectation of the man always picking up the bill, especially on the first date, I don't like it either when women that have an expectation like myself have an attitude about it. You know, where they feel like, you know, you have to do it. Or I think it's a luxury today that a man is able to invite you out and pick up the bill every single time. And you're appreciating it? I'm like, so ready to do it. Okay. Just for a girl appreciating it. I'm like, yeah, all right, you know, like. But you're saying if she comes across everything that you, what are you going to do on a date, then more so, she can expect to pick up half that tab at the end of the day. Immediately. Now, when you've done that, because I'm assuming you've done that before, have women never called you out on it? Has a woman ever said to you, were you crazy? I'm not picking up half the check. No, sometimes too, I'll say, I'll pick up the check but you take care of the tip. Okay. And that's more of a, but no, I wouldn't get mad about that. I wouldn't get upset about that. Right. But when I've gotten Dutch, Michelle, I think, you know, I'm a little old school, I think for sure on the first date, guy picks up the check. I approve. I approve, Scott. Jennifer's, Jennifer in the chat room saying, oh, Chris doesn't get play on the first date. Oh, yeah. Oh, good. Repeat that. Repeat that. Scott, I couldn't hear you. There are many women that really want to pay half. They can't. So one thing you could always say is the guy is like, listen, just get me next time. How about that? Well, that's a very, that is a very interesting point because there are a lot of women that are very independent that have the opposite mindset that they don't want to be made to feel like, they don't want to be made to feel like the little woman that can't afford her own meal. Right. So that's why this is really mindset Michelle, but inside, they still want the guy to pay just from, you know, an emotional standpoint, I believe. That's my opinion. I agree. They might really want to pay and be independent, but at the same time, they still want to be, you know, treated to the day just, you know, for tradition's sake. It's still in our society, I think. So a nice way out of that is just to simply say, get me next time or you get it next time. And, you know, let them next time if they're forceful. I have a question. I have a question on this. Okay. You know, a guy wanting to impress the girl because it impresses her and she wants the guy to treat her in a certain way. But my question is, maybe it's just me, but why does it have to go one direction? Wouldn't it impress the guy if the girl would, for me, it would impress me if somebody wanted to buy me dinner? And what's wrong with a guy being impressed? What's wrong with a guy being treated? Listen, I don't have a problem. If you want me to buy you dinner, I'll buy you dinner. I don't. Are you single? I don't. That's a whole other topic. No, listen, I very much believe in surprising the man you love, you know, not necessarily on the first date picking up the tab. Hell no. Wait. What's the difference if it's the first date? Because... Something about syndrome. Listen, I still believe I still believe as a woman. On the first date, then you pay, then take her out for lobster dinner and let her pay. Look, the thing is that I still believe as a woman that at the end of the day, most women want to feel that they're with a man. And being with a man means that he's the one, you know, that's the head of household, so to speak, in more ways than one. Mentally, emotionally, financially. I'm a very strong woman. I'm very independent. So it takes a much stronger man than myself to make me feel that way. But at the end of the day, I don't want to feel like, you know, everything falls on me financially either. And I think one way that a man kind of gets that out of the way on the first date is making you feel like he's got you on that first date. And like he's picking up the bill. I mean, it creates... And look, Jennifer said it in the chat a little while ago. She says that more than likely Chris is not getting any play at the end of the first date. Let me clear this up. I've never got play on the first date. I've never heard of that. Which is for a faster of the age. You've never heard of that. You might want to change your ways. You might want to change your ways. You might want to change your ways. And let me tell you why. Every woman that's got... This is important. This is a profound thought I'm going to give you right now as you're friend and as the host of the show. Every woman you've ever dated has been on at least 20 other dates. So by default, by default, you're being compared to every other scenario she's been on. And nine times out of ten, she's never had to pay for dinner or for that first date. So, you know, unfortunately, I hate to say it, but you have a better chance of getting play at the end of the date by, you know, romancing her, whining and dining her and making her feel like a million bucks even if you're broke. Okay, wait a minute. What's business? And I'm so glad that came from Michelle from the girl on the panel who's admitting that you actually are going to have a better chance to get some play. I believe so. I believe so. What's your definition of play, though? If it's like a kiss? Oh, okay. I'll change. No, after the four play. At some point, you're going to be found out and it's over. If she's that bad and she doesn't know your name, you could always run out the back door. Who cares? By the next day. Later. She doesn't know you. She's that terrible. Yeah. Listen, on her first date, you're asking her out. So, you know, typically the man wants to go on the date. Look, if the girl's asking for the date and begging you because you're just, you know, not at me all the time. Look, if she wants to go out, she's begging you, well, that might be something different, but that's very... Typically the guy wants to go on the date. He's asking her guy should pay. So let's get down out of the brass tacks. Is it a business deal? Is it really a business transaction that you're buying some play? Okay, because I could just, like, if they take Bitcoin or cash or credit cards, you know, it's just, it's just simpler. No, it's not. Look, it's, it's absolutely, it's absolutely not. We're not talking prostitution. No. We're talking about, we're talking about on a first date, making a woman feel one, like a woman and making her feel like she wants to go there with you. I can guarantee that if you make her pick up half the tab, you might have to wait five more dates before you get some play. Okay. Because for her, her time spent with you is also an investment for a future potential relationship. So it's my condition that it is a business. Hold on a second. Wait, wait, if it's only five more times, then maybe you should split the bill. Exactly. Like the layaway plan. Five times, that's not so bad. That's not so bad. Well, listen, another, another, you know, another layer of this question I want to ask you in the gay community. Yeah. When it's two men that are dating, how is the decision made? Well, you know, it's a little bit different because the play happens before the date. You know, we, the first thing is like, we negotiate about the sexual adult things and then we do that and then we fight, what was your name again? You know, we fight our name and then, you know, if everything really works out long-term, then we go on a date. And that's how that happens. So, we get that part out of the way. But see, So the play, the play is not an issue. No, because that's just going to happen and there's no need for any financial compensation. The other thing is, I have to contend, I have to contend, like cut through the BS and say, look, it's not necessarily, you know, sex for money or whatever, if you want to be so blunt, but to say that there really is a transaction. I don't care what. If you're describing this old school type of relationship on a first date, it is a transaction because even if it's just about feelings versus play, even if it's about feelings, not the money directly, but the feelings. If you're making her feel like a princess and she is the most wonderful, special princess in the world, then she's getting what she wants. She wants to feel that way. Right. And then you want to feel your way and that's what happens and it becomes a transaction. Am I right? I don't, I don't totally disagree. I don't, I don't totally disagree with that. I mean, listen, a woman when she wants to impress a man, she'll go out and she'll buy the best dress she can find. She'll wear the most expensive perfume, you know, because she wants to look good for her man too and impress him as well. You know, I think the whole idea behind the first relationship, whether it's in the sack, you know, or whether it's just a free meal. Right. You see right there, right where you said that. I didn't tell you. You smile in the model way. Like, that's how I'm like, alright. Like, if she comes out on the first day and she's wearing a cardigan, I'm like, uh-uh. There's no way. This is, I don't know what this is, but like, and I'm figuring out, it's a huge strategy type thing. Now what you're speaking of, and if it was for me, Larry, I would love that because it sounds so much easier, but nowadays, there's so much reverse psychology and so it's just been done so many times that now it's just another level, another layer of things. To the point where I even feel like I'm at a bar and I have to say that, you know, dating is about dating and it shouldn't be about worrying too much about who's paying the bill. If you've got to worry about who's paying the bill. It's not a worry thing. It's actually kind of fun when you get into this and the guys worry about it as much as women do because I think when a woman is put in a situation where she's having to pay half the bill, let's say, on the first date, you better believe that she may not have caused controversy with that candidate that night, so to speak, but she's calling all her girlfriends and talking about her, she just went out with a loser and so the conversation is going on behind the scenes and, you know, that could turn into, well, she never picked up the phone again. She doesn't like the game method. We get it out of the way and the money, you keep the money separate from the sex, separate from the dinner and then you get that out of the way. It's just, it keeps it racing. You know what, it's like, it's just like, you know, any product, you get a good product, you tell five people, but if, if you're really mad and you get a bad product, you tell 30. Yeah. Yeah. I've had some so bad dating and so bad dating experiences that I wish I could call a better business bureau on these guys. There needs to be a better business bureau, a better dating bureau. Listen, maybe on DeadSmart.com we can have like a department completely dedicated to taking complaints. Complaint department. But listen, Scott, you did a, there, there was also a compatibility test I found on your site that could, within couples, you can check to see just how compatible you are in your ideals about how to approach money. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think if a lot more people really, you know, took the time to take a compatibility test and figure out if they're really compatible, it would save everybody a lot of hassle. Yeah, that's right. Tell us a little bit more about the compatibility test. Well, you know, you want to make sure that the way you think about finances lines up. Some people are fine with having separate money, you know, his money, her money, and their money but other people want to just combine it all. So, and some people are big spenders and some people are big savers. So you want to make sure that the person you're with, you know, has the same kind of philosophy when it comes to dealing with their finances. I mean, that might not be the only thing you have to worry about, but it's certainly a large thing because trouble with money is the number one reason for divorce. I think you mentioned that earlier, but that is the number one reason why people have troubles, money and infidelities after that. It always seems like you're matching up the opposite. Like, if you're really good at finances, your partner not necessarily is really good at it and that's your dominant feature. So, I don't know about, you know, the compatibility. It doesn't always work, I don't think. You wouldn't want two people who are bad at finances. There's usually always one that's better than the other. Fine, as long as the person who's not as good listens, but everyone needs to be included. They've got to lay an hour on the table so that everyone knows where the money is and what's going on and so it's not just a giant spender. Let's take a minute, let's take a minute to thank our sponsors because we've gotten so caught up in this fantastic conversation, we lost track of time. This is going to be a three-hour show. Yeah, we do want to thank our sponsors because without them we wouldn't be here to have all this fun with you. So, thank, we want to thank our sponsors who have won 800 hot coin. That's Andy Gauss who is actually a monetary expert. He's a genius when it comes to money and investing in rare U.S. gold and silver coins. It's called Numismatic Gold and Silver Coins as investments and he's actually bringing his show The Real World of Money to Only One TV Network on Wednesday mornings at 10 a.m. coming soon. 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Jennifer in the chat room she's got a few good points she says you can only make one first impression which I totally agree with and no it's not about that women just want to be charmed and feel special which I totally agree and I and I times in and says and they should be enough said and then and they should be enough said but they don't want to feel charmed at McDonald's I know this for sure if you take them to the chat room they don't feel you can tell them that they're in a carriage and they're princess and that just isn't going to cut it yeah fry with that please Chris if you're 12 years sold then McDonald's will work but otherwise it's not happening 12 years old 12 years old that's a whole other topic there Scott are you dating 12 year olds now no well go ahead I wanted to ask Chris because Chris said well do you feel that they don't always want to do you think that some women just take advantage I feel like no I feel like women since they were 5 years old have been getting compliments on how pretty are all these things you can't just keep doing that because it doesn't sound like anything I understand like deep down hard they want to feel special and charmed but you can't you gotta be careful complimenting them it's just a thin line you can't just there's a thin line you just can't just say they make them feel special without just complimenting them you're so beautiful there's other ways I guess you know and it's funny you have to attend to the 5 star place and you're pretty how can you make them feel special without just buying it no I'm not saying that no no no complimenting them well what he's saying because beautiful women like what you're talking about is that they grow up getting complimented all the time and being made to feel special all the time so you think that if you come along as a new guy in their life and just continue that pattern of behavior it doesn't make you it doesn't make you different from the rest of the guys I feel like the majority women can't take a compliment really it's weird they always feel weird I'm like yo I'm just saying do you think it makes them uncomfortable? very yeah because they think you're trying to go somewhere with it and I'm like I don't know which you are of course well actually 100% what's the point every 7 seconds in my head 100% yeah every time that's no lie 7 milliseconds and that's what the comment about you like about gay men it's like why the relationship are like that it's because it's two men two that's it like it's just wait wait what you're saying Chris is the reason why the gay men when we talked about gay men go straight to the sex it sounds like that well there's no underlying you know issues like women no games there are no games there are no games I mean well no games in the sense that when I'm assuming that when two men are gonna have sex you don't have the underlying issue that you do with women in my reputation what is he gonna think of me does he think that those are the games that women you know that exist right does he think I do this with everybody of course we do we all do well but then but then doesn't it when it comes to finances shell the bottom line on the dating is that it's more than just paying it's treating her like a woman from the beginning opening the door pulling out the chair yes paying for the meal it's the whole thing if the whole package is not complete it's not gonna work out well for you Scott Scott is probably getting some play on the first date no because listen for women because women are more emotional than they are visual or physical I agree a hundred percent Scott that it's all in the details it's not even just about picking up the bill because if you pick up the bill and you're arrogant or you're obnoxious or you're not you know sensitive to these other things that you just mentioned you know what you're not gonna get any props for having picked up the bill either right it's the whole chivalry it's the whole it's the whole thing of making them feel special that is it's consideration it's thoughtfulness about feelings because exactly thoughtfulness and paying the bill as part of that thoughtfulness yes it's about the thought and the feelings that go into it and for guys it's strictly we know what it is see like when a woman she buys what? lingerie okay when a guy wants to impress that girl he buys her you know flowers and rings and romantic beautiful flowery things I mean you know that are that are expressed like a greeting card or anything that is gonna express his feelings so she's getting fed with feelings he's getting fed with whatever came in the lingerie that's what they want it's a it's a transactional thing see and it's different I mean there's but the thing is that men and women have to play this game because they're not both wanting the same thing at the same time as much it's weird like with gay guys or whatever you know they both want sex they both want sex that's that they both want to be treated with respect of course we treat each other with respect and we're gentlemen towards each other and we do wonderful things to each other and let them know that we love them and they're special for that I give you this you give me this well I also think that you know men and women and this is a whole separate topic for another show men and women's thought processes are completely different you could tell me that you like how this dress looks on me and I'll wonder if you really meant that I look fat in the dress you know what I mean so I'm assuming that in a gay relationship with two men it's really not as complicated in the thought processes as it can be between a man and a woman oh for sure we're much more blunt about it but I mean the other thing Ellie brings up a good point because I think that women obviously invest a lot into dating like she says women pay for their clothes they make up perfumes manicures to look good for their dates etc men don't do that so women already on the date have invested like lots of money and time to look good and to pay for all these great things and then yeah of course they're almost like expecting for their dinner to be paid after going through all that trouble I will tell you this women I think will get offended to add to what Ellie is saying women will get offended at the idea that the man is not even going out of his way to impress her after all the trouble she went through to get dressed and to look good for him and you know to show him for the date I think it has more to do with that than anything else that I as a woman feel that I bring a lot to the table I'm going to take it as you don't even you don't even want to impress me that you're going to make me pay for half the check and yes a lot of times the guy will show up on the date looking half as good as the woman because he just didn't invest the same kind of time and money into it that's a great point I love New Young Michelle had any first states where the guy doesn't pay or made you pay he had not I have not been in a situation where I've been on a first date and the guy has made me pay no but I've been in many situations where from that point on you know as the relationship because I just don't have I just don't have luck to go out with guys that are wealthier that have a lot of money that always want to pick up the bill but by that time I'm emotionally invested in a yes I've been in many situations where after you surpass the first date and you know after a month or a few months where I've ended up you know picking the bill picking up the bill on more than one occasion because of their financial situation now how do you feel about that how do you feel about that well I don't I don't feel completely bad about it and I'll tell you why if I think that the guy that I'm dating brings a lot of other things to the table if he turns me on mentally if he takes care of me emotionally if I think he's got potential if I think even him I absolutely do not have a problem with that even though as a woman I would yes in a perfect world I want the guy to always pick up the tab I think all women in a perfect world want that but in the in the real world that we live in I absolutely don't have a problem with you know carrying us financially as a couple if I have to for a certain period of time if I really love the person I'm with I believe in them and I think they bring a lot of negative that you can learn from Michelle's story first always have the guy fill out a questionnaire before you date him like she does and interview them and secondly you know don't date the pool boy because eventually you're going to end up supporting them but Michelle let me ask you something further like how far along the relationship would you have to go because you said that you had no problem at a certain point but it still doesn't feel exactly right but when you pay you pay wouldn't matter like you wouldn't think of it in any way in a negative way at all okay I you know just for the record I have not engaged in real long term relationships throughout the course of my adult life so most of my relationships tend to last only a few months anyways so I've been put in that position I've been put in that position Scott as early as a month in let's say I'm one month in and now it's a little too short that's too short for the guy to not you know you know what happens and this is another topic as well you know what happens when you meet somebody Scott you usually meet their representative at the beginning yes at the beginning when you meet somebody you meet their representative they tell you everything you want to hear and at least for me it only takes sometimes a few hours before you really find out what their financial situation is what their professional situation is and you know I use one month as a scenario because in a recent situation it did happen to me well one month in the person fell on a crisis and you know I didn't feel I felt enough for the person that I didn't feel it warranted breaking things off completely even though down the line yes it became a much bigger issue the whole money thing became a much bigger issue over time and through and through you know from beginning to end in the relationship here's a couple comments from the chat room you know one of the things Ellie had said earlier is you gotta pay to play well you know hey what you said Ellie that's what I'm that's what I'm saying and that's a woman saying that that's a woman saying that that's what can I say that's exactly what I'm saying and then later Jennifer is saying remember we live in an area of Starbucks and coffee shops a place and keep it cheap but is a woman gonna really feel special the first day is Starbucks well look I mean it's gonna depend I think it's gonna depend on how you met I mean if you've met online you might want to go to Starbucks correct hold them through someone then maybe a dinner is better what if you've been at a gay bath house Bruce no no it's alright never mind respect the gas respect the gas respect the gas respect the gas respect the gas no no no no but actually Scott I was gonna say that if you meet somebody online and you don't know that you want to spend an entire three hours of dinner with them thirty-eight seconds I think it's a great it is a great idea to meet up at Starbucks or to have lunch because lunch has a beginning and an end and I gotta get back to work no go to Starbucks and go dutch there why get me to don't get down there it's gonna be better you don't get off I say make sure you bring your own coffee and donuts bring your own oh my god picnic in the park it all depends on what she looks like right Chris what no can I just give a shout out I'm actually dating a great girl okay and her name is Jackie she does a show on El Nuevo Latino at the pit which is on new stream as well and we have great dates and you know whatever I'm saying it's a generational thing right you know it's completely different it sounds like what you want it sounds some younger women nowadays will see how you're talking about women as being submissive and it's you know especially New York City women are independent it's so intellectual game and you're from Florida right yeah all my friends say you go down to Florida right now I guarantee you one night I will get pregnant you're from New York that's it they say it from New York in New York I got to play chess with them I got to like bring them to I got to tell them I know these people I got to get the lines it's a whole other game hold on a second I want to hear about Jackie yes how long have you how long have you guys been dating I don't know a couple months two or three months so in the two or three months would you say that Jackie Jackie has is in a higher income bracket than you are she is she works in the hospital okay so is Jackie is Jackie picking up the tab a lot of the times no we go Dutch you go Dutch we go Dutch really listen to me you take that woman out this Saturday you take that woman out this Saturday Chris and you pay for the whole dinner you know what I will 100% Jackie I got you girl raise choice whatever you want listen you know what she's a fun generational thing you know we're bringing up this you know it's generational maybe younger people are going to feel differently but everyone likes when someone pays for them it makes you feel good it makes you feel special whether you're a man or a woman yeah I like it so even if it's not the standard you know a woman is going to feel happier the guy pays yeah I'm not against paying for things either but don't guys like it when women pay is it just me I like it when other people pay listen I think both parties both parties need to bring something to the table it's not just financially a million other other things you want to feel that the person you're with enhances your life in some way I just think that as a woman when you're in a dating situation where it's always going Dutch it's like well you know doesn't he always have to pay for his meal anyway I mean you know you have to I think as a man at least some of the time you want to make her feel like you are the man and you're taking you're taking charge of being in a relationship I mean it's Jack we're all these women that will put up with Dutch time after time I don't think it's going to happen yeah I mean I don't know that many women that are cool with that also I feel like an out generation is a lot about individualism there's not the same woman that all nowadays there's so many different women you just constantly just trying to figure out oh she's about this it's just that's our game in itself but we're just very independent people you know it's a great partner and crime type of thing and that's our relationship I would also imagine just based on what you're telling me if she's not if she doesn't even have a problem with that kind of you know the going Dutch on the dates and it's you're three months in I would also venture to say you've probably connected mentally on a much deeper level hundred percent you probably have a lot of things in common a lot and you really enjoy each other's company yeah I think it's a modern urban thing in the big city it's just a new way of life that it's not the old school anymore on our dates she teaches me about Twitter oh my god it's the best and I've like yes it's awesome both foodies he said I'll show you my Twitter if you follow me yeah I'm gonna you're taking a listen to me Chris you want to take that woman out this Saturday and you're paying yeah what was that Scott she might be tweeting he's not paying again she has a thousand followers I would hate to know though if a girl is calling her friends saying how bad I am I don't know that's like a that is 100% if I just knew it yet well listen at the very least I think that on the first date I mean and listen I feel you because if you're with a girl if you're on a first date and she's just you know she's coming across as not appreciative like you owe her something like she's entitled right and it's kind of an expensive dinner you know and you and if you could care less if you're never gonna see her again make her pay it's happening make her pay let me just just for the sake of argument if a guy was good enough in sex would you mind paying paying for the sex paying for dinner for the dinner listen if I if you brought something to the table listen to me if I'm already having sex with the guy yeah I ain't paying for no dinner okay now if we're in a relationship because that's a whole other topic if we're just if we're just in a casual physical relationship the protocol is different than if we're in a relationship because if we're in a relationship and I care about you and your you know your problems and whatever's going on in your life I may not have a problem paying for dinner but if we're in a casual relationship you know and I think there's a movie coming out about this on Friday Friends with Benefits if we're in a casual situation where we're not in a relationship but we have been intimate I absolutely am not paying for dinner too I think what he's saying is he's asking if he's really good yeah he's really good listen he's still paying he's still paying Scott I don't want to hear I don't want to hear anymore about me putting out and paying for dinner absolutely not and would you be like Jennifer is saying well it's okay to take turns not that big of a deal would you be okay if your date pays for the first date and then says is it okay if you pay for the next one wow on the second date if you're paying already if you're paying already I wouldn't throw that in there because that just ruined you paying this one but you better get me next time listen I gotta tell you the finance will not pay at that point it's over look I gotta tell you because we're making light of the topic but I've been in a situation even with guy friends that I know are in a bad spot financially and I don't even wait for them to pay I tell them listen I got it today I do that more often than not so I'm actually not the one that's always getting you know where I you know where I never end up you know not paying or whatever so really it just depends on the income situation the kind of relationship that you're in you know you gotta be sensitive to the other person I don't think you should just discard you know a man in your life or a woman in your life because of you know one mismatched dinner paying scenario um thank you thank you well I just wanted to say really quick that Emily's on here from my life our match and she talks about Groupon and stuff like that and yeah it's I think it's tacky to use a Groupon for a first date personally I think most people would agree with that I agree we only have a few seconds Scott thank you so much for joining us I'm gonna ask you to come back at a later date because you have a lot of interesting topics to talk about on your website as well okay bye bye stop recording Scott