 Call to order. This is the 11th regular meeting of the 2011-2012 Common Council And as is customary our city clerk Sue Richards will read the quote of the evening When all things are said and done we realize that life is not always as we planned But we are required to do the best that we can with situations at hand Thank You sue real call, please Warren here Carlson here Decker here Hammond here. I'm sorry homin here, and then Hammond here Heidemann here. Ah, yeah, Kittlesen here. Manichuk here Rindflange here Racelor here Samson here van Akron here Vanderweel here and verse here 16th present We have a quorum now if we can all stand and join alderman Hammond in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you done looking for approval of the minutes of the prior Common Council meeting president Rindflange. Thank you. I move that we approve the previous minutes second We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes from the previous meeting Under discussion if there is no discussion all in favor say aye Opposed motion carries resignation's attorney McLean Thank you, Your Honor. The first one is from Heather Cleveland advising that He must resign from the Sustainable Shpoig and Task Force effective immediately and that she's beginning graduate school Milwaukee area and moving down there to reduce the commute Okay, we are looking for a motion On that president Rindflange move that we accept the resignation second motion to accept in file Under discussion There's no discussion all in favor say aye opposed Motion carries There's a letter from Stephen R. Hemsing Date at August 22nd to the mayor advising that he's going to be spending the majority of the upcoming winter months in Florida And is therefore resigning as a member of the plant Commission as of September 1 Do we have a motion? President Rindflange. Thank you. I move to accept the resignation and file document We have a motion to accept and file under discussion Alderman Boran Thank You, Mayor Ryan Mr.. Hemsing is a constituent of Alderman Heidemann and myself and Mr.. Hemsing goes all the way back on this committee to being appointed by Mayor Perez And then reappointed by yourself mayor Ryan and I just want to thank mr.. Hemsing for his dedicated dedicated service on the plan Commission I know he was always at the meetings when he could be and We appreciate him stepping forward and being part of city government. Thank you. Thank you Alderman Boran. I concur Any further discussion? There is no further discussion all in favor of accepting and filing state aye opposed motion carries It's all for resignations mayors appointments attorney McLean Honorable members of the council I hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Greg Ryan to be considered for appointment with sustainable shabuagan task force to fill the unexpired position of Heather Cleveland Whose term expires for 23 2012 signed by the mayor Thank You Steve. I will make clear that Greg Ryan is no relation of mine at this point Do we have in all of you have a short bio on mr.. Ryan along with the letter of appointment? And that lies over Okay public forum sue We have pat a home And pat can I get your home address please 26 or to a Camelot boulevard Camelot Boulevard, yeah, and you will have five minutes. Thank you. Good evening I had a prepared speech written that I was practicing all afternoon, but at six o'clock I decided I would just kind of go from the heart, so I hope I don't fall apart and mess it up too much I Actually voted for Bob Ryan in the spring of 2009 and when I did that I obviously did not know about his background And since that time I have been very disappointed that I did vote that way We have a bunch of different things coming forth tonight that I think kind of Muddies the water or makes it more difficult than it should be to move along the process The one Resolution that's coming forth tonight is the one that was passed by the majority at the committee of the whole meeting And that was the one stating that we should hire attorney Steve viscupic from Michael best and Friedrich he's an excellent attorney with a wonderful reputation and We obviously couldn't get him at a better price than pro bono now. I'm sure he would not even Volunteer to do a job like this pro bono unless he was expecting very good results I Think first of all that for the people that think we should have a recall election to give the people their own vote That is not necessary because the people have voted you all their persons into office to represent us And it is your job To take that seriously and anybody that would vote in a recall election Can also pick up the phone call you and talk to you personally and give them your opinion or send you an email So you're getting the same feedback as if people would go to the poll and vote and this is your Opportunity and really your responsibility to look out for the city of Sheboygan and its residents The other resolutions coming in tonight The ones that basically forgive mayor Ryan for all of these little Public relations things that have been coming up and disturbing the city regular business A City administrator might be a good idea at some point, but this is not the time to be talking about that I believe those are resolutions that were put together in haste and didn't carefully think things through And I think that's a major step and really needs to be dealt with in a more careful manner So that brings us back to the one resolution tonight that the committee of the whole past as a majority and Said we should consider that tonight Because of the fact that attorney Biscoupic is going to investigate the matter first and decide whether there actually is enough evidence To show that we do have cause to go on with a quasi judicial hearing For one thing we have no reason to pay out another attorney on the behalf of the council to Advise him until we know that yes, this is going to go forward as a quasi judicial hearing And if attorney Biscoupic comes back and says no, there's not enough evidence It doesn't pay to go forth. Well, then Attorney then mayor Ryan has already won and he will remain in office. So actually by putting forth this resolution to hire attorney Stephen Biscoupic Everyone should be satisfied by just this one action. If there's not enough, we're going to know that right away Mayor Ryan will stay on if there is enough it will go forward and at that point you can hire attorney Valker to assist you and I Think that would be the best way overall to handle the matter because we're getting it for free If it gets to the point where we do have the quasi judicial hearing for one thing I would sort of doubt that Mayor Ryan would actually want to go forward. He still has the opportunity to resign at any point and Considering that one week of depositions in the Angela Payne case kind of Stressed him out and put him into the drinking weekend I would think that he would want to carefully consider going through with a quasi judicial hearing because at that hearing He will be put under oath Witnesses will be called and subpoenaed and they will have to answer under oath So there's going to be a lot of things coming out at that point that we don't now know about and it's going to be Very stressful and I would think would tax Mayor Ryan's Fight for sobriety at this point So I would suggest that on behalf of all the citizens of Sheboygan. Excuse me Pat. Would you like your extra minute? Yes, please I Would suggest that you Put aside the recall action put aside this other resolution to Make James Amadeo the chief administrator and I think you should just concentrate on the resolution That was brought before you tonight the one that that has passed the committee of the whole Thank you Thank You Pat next Patrick Gillette Yeah, can I have your home address, please? My home address is 915 North Avenue Sheboygan, Wisconsin And you will have five minutes sir. Thank you mr. Mayor and common council members. I Just saved 30 minutes out of my talk tonight My predecessor speakers stole my thunder But what I would like to emphasize is some of the things she didn't speak about All of the issues she talked with deal with the incontinence of this city government You're all to blame neither the mayor nor this council can man up and Accept their responsibilities She talked about that The mayor's use threats and illusions to disrupt what was once a strong direction that this council chose to take Most of the council gender tonight and subsequently most of the discussion tonight All will center on the fact that most people do not want Bob Ryan as Sheboygan's mayor however The mayor has not been the only delinquent in this elementary sandbox You the council have been going delinquent and carrying out the process that you started a Process that complies with the state statute the municipal code of the city of Sheboygan as well as the city and state code of ethics All of which you took an oath to uphold Now is not the time to offer illusions and delusions Diversions from the path you chose to take originally Now is the time to support and proceed with your initial commitment and official duties You have a committed prosecutor that has agreed to work for free You have a prima facie a case to remove the mayor for cause You have judicial notice of the municipal code the code of ethics and the state statutes in All circuit courts of this state including the court of appeals and the state's Supreme Court now for those of you that don't know what judicial notice is is The municipal codes state statutes are ipso facto recognized with judicial notice The only real cost concerning proceeding with the removal process Will be due to the incontinence of this council the failure to hold its water You will then have failed your sworn duties The removal process now is a civil matter But all public officials subject are subject to misconduct in public office No one is immune from actions or inactions as sworn public officials Stop this four-ring circus Get back on track. Let the removal process continue. Thank you. Thank you bad next John Burner John, can I have your home address, please? 1919 Broadway say it again 1919 Broadway And you will have five minutes sir. All right. I Can't use big terms like these other people have used. I'm just a common ordinary person. I Think she buoyant water has been muddied for a long time But I don't understand is Bob Ryan admitted to it He said he is an alcoholic He fell down after the first time After alcohol it gets hard to do to get back up But what I like to know is how somebody with a camera twice can take pictures and get it to the news so fast And so you can watch it at TV the next night. This is what I don't understand Was the council members ever given this before the news media? That I don't know But it's just funny. I mean I mean it's a person with the camera You really want to get something give it to the news go around find out how many drug houses start taking pictures and get The police and the city involved in this This is a minor thing Anybody on this council hasn't said Anything that the mayor hasn't done, right? Anything that he hasn't helped the city with Except for this little episode, which isn't a little to you people it is To him it's not little anymore, and I think he deserves that chance Unless you can prove anything anything he's done to the city other than this to hurt it but put it ahead Everybody deserves a chance you on the council. I Mean it's it's always been known that council members can't say something bad against other council members But the last time somebody had an opinion to the mayor And I think that person who's the mayor of apology the mayor is apologized for his actions over and over What do you want him to do carry across drag it down the street? What he's got to go through isn't easy. I don't think any of you people in this Common council has ever gone through it. It's not an easy thing. I've seen it and I've been through it trust me. It isn't easy. I thank you. Thank you, John Next Mike van der steen Michael I need you Ryan members of the common Michael. Can I get your home address first 320 Lincoln Avenue? 321 Lincoln 320 May I Ryan and members of the common council clerk and in city attorney? I'm here tonight as a regular citizen who has been a 25 I mean a longtime member of the Sheboygan JC's and telling you a little bit about the JC cross-country ski program you've got a map that we handed out earlier and The reason I'm here is because I thought there was gonna be something on your agenda about the Rotary Christmas Lights project Both good projects and actually I'm a member of both of those clubs So it kind of tears me apart but the Rotary Lights project is projected to start in 2012 and There's been some talk of this in the public works committee in the park board The project if it was implemented would seriously impact the ability of citizens to use the ski trail During the early part of the season during the early part of the season We also build base so that we have snow to ski on for the rest of the year And if it was scraped off We wouldn't have any snow there to start with whenever the project got done and cleaned out of the park probably early in January That's when we would start to build base and then many times we get a February thaw in our seasons over with already so these two conflict with each other and Evergreen Park is the hub of this trail It's the lit loop that gets the most evening skiing and it's the only way to get to Maywood from a parking lot if you're a skier Now all there's been some discussions with city staff and the JC groomers and the Rotary the JC groomers and the Citizens that use the ski trail were not made aware of any of these discussions when they came up at public works or the park board I think that these Concerns about this ski trail should be properly aired before you make a decision on this now If we've had the rights to use it during December long enough well then so be it But I still think that we have a right to have those aired in front of those committees before they make their decision on this The city doesn't have to say yes to Rotary's project in order for it to happen They've talked to Randy out at the bid district and Randy has been open to them and talking about trying to house us at South Pier They've also talked to L. Hardison at UWS and he had a Lights project like this with a service club where he came from in another community and he would love to have it out there So there are other places for it to go The city doesn't have to agree to put it at Evergreen Park where it's going to conflict with cross-country ski trail users This project is not set to start till 2012. So I'd ask that You pull this back and ask for some reconsideration now Tonight when I talked to clerk Richards, I find out that on 726 public works voted In favor of recommending this and referred it to park and forestry and an 8 to park and forestry approve the request But as I remember when I was an alderman park and forestry doesn't have the right to make any decisions They're advisory only and if public works is going to refer it They should refer it to park and forestry astra recommendation Take that recommendation and then make a decision and then it should be coming back to this full council for final action so I hope that you can work to overcome the Procedures on this that we can have it brought up in one of these committees and discuss the concerns of the ski trail groups and Bring it back here for final action. Thank you very much appreciate it. Thanks Michael. Thank you Mike next Okay, that is all for public forum on to my favorite part of the evening the mayor's announcements Always my favorite We have a rather lengthy agenda this evening, so I will keep it brief a couple of announcements First of all the next council meeting we will hold an election for the board of water commissioners Interested parties there is one Seat on the the board of water commissioners up for election the incumbent will run But any interested parties that are interested in in assuming that position Can send a letter to our city clerk Sue Richards or to President Brin flash regarding that Moving on our fire department is Helping to raise money For the fire department of New York widows and children's fund They have these 9-eleven shirts, which this is mine Which we will be willing wearing at City Hall in many businesses around town on Friday Pretty cool shirts all the proceeds of these goes goes to the FDNY widows and children's fund and the so far they've raised approximately six thousand dollars For that fund these are fifteen dollars if you require a double XL or more I think they're an extra two or three bucks Extra five dollars according to Alderman Hammond. Now if you get an extra small you don't get a discount They are available at at firehouse number one, which is right behind City Hall here They have a limited amount right now, but they are going to possibly be taking if they get a large demand They've already gone through several hundred if they get a large demand they will order more So that is that we have a couple Big events coming up in the city One thing we have an Erie Hill neighborhood meeting This Saturday, September 10th at 12 30 p.m. Erie Hill is the neighborhood of course Up the hill on Erie Avenue, which would be west of our present Gateway neighborhood It will be at the church at North 15th and St. Clair I don't have the name of that church here But this will be for establishing the neighborhood Association So especially Alderman that are involved in the Erie Hill neighborhood that that is their district Please attend and anybody else who is interested. I know Alderperson Kittleson is is very instrumental in the neighborhood Associations and I believe Alderperson Kauff. I've seen that many of them also So and Alderman Sampson, of course, but that is for there Next weekend not this coming weekend, but the next weekend beginning actually next week from Today Tuesday, September 13th. We have the nation's cup Coming to the city of Sheboygan nations cup is the second biggest boating event in the world Behind the Americas Cup. This is being held in Sheboygan. Sheboygan is one of Four us sailing centers in the country. I don't know if everybody knows this you have Long Beach You have Miami you have San Diego and you have Sheboygan. We are a us sailing center We will have 20 teams from 20 countries that will be competing Tuesday night is the grand opening ceremonies featuring the US Navy Navy band They will have a low fireworks presentation held on the east lawn of the Blue Harbor resort Wednesday is the big brought fry sponsored by Johnsonville and Festival Foods Festival Foods is also the fireworks sponsor for this. We welcome them to our community and They will have Concessions band playing from six to nine. I have the bands coming up here Thursday, September 15th is the taste of Sheboygan on a street going to close down a big portion of a street Taste of Sheboygan will have 15 different food sampling stations all local restaurants Food price from a buck to five bucks and for those who partake there is beer and wine and soft drinks They will have some Bands out there including Daryl Sturmer former Genesis guy from Milwaukee Joel Keether They'll have several other bands going in there basically bands every night. So the taste of Sheboygan will be on Thursday Friday is the South Pier Carnival over on South Pier also more bands on Friday Saturday we're going to have some tall ships in town Tall ships will be able to you'll be able to buy tickets right at the docks take the tall ships out to the race course itself They will have commentary over the PAs on the ships of who's in you know of how the race is going who's in first place and what's happening Most of us don't understand match racing. I know I don't so it'll be a lesson for me to learn Tickets are sold on site Saturday Saturday evening is going to be a Rather large fireworks demonstration Saturday night several bands out on the South Pier area It's an all-day event. It'll be a big event. It's kind of like taking a summertime event and putting it in the middle of September in Sheboygan And then on Sunday is the closing ceremonies like I said, this is Tuesday through Sunday a lot of stuff going on Some of the bands they are going to have will include Let's see Wednesday. I said Jill Keith her Friday is spare time Play a lot of Eagles pink Floyd stuff like that for you folks my age out there in the crowd Saturday is Loxley Sunday strawberry jam band. Those will all be down on South Pier Be a great event the governor has proclaimed that this coming week Nations Cup week statewide I don't know if mr. Walker is going to make an appearance or not and Just a bit of good news on the end of this we got some numbers on our tax dollars Which drives tourism in the city? the first quarter of 2011 our Income on city room tax dollars in hotel rooms is up 14 percent over last year in the second quarter is up 10 percent So we must be doing something right our tourism numbers are going up So that's the good news. I hope everybody the public and especially the alderman can get out for some of these events and support our community Moving on we do have a rather lengthy agenda tonight. I believe there's going to be a couple items pulled forward for the sake of the media We have some big decisions to make tonight on a couple of different issues I am not going to Voice my opinion That greatly as I did in the past And I apologize if I sounded rather gruff the last meeting. I let my emotions get ahold of me. I Think it's time that we move forward That we do the right thing And we put our emotions aside and that we do what is good for the city The city being the citizens of the city in the overall good of the city And with that we will move on To the public hearings which I will call first before we Anything else we have three hearings this evening Three hearings hearing number one for the proposed assessments for water lateral replacement in Broadway From South 13th Street to South 14th Street Hearing number two for the proposed assessments for water lateral replacement in South 13th Street From south of Indiana Avenue to Broadway Avenue and number three for the proposed assessment For water main installation in Eisner Avenue 150 feet east of Halberts of Hubert circle to Lakeshore Road Is there anybody that would like to be heard regarding these three hearings any one of them if you would please raise your hand and step forward Going twice is there anybody that would like to be heard And three times is there anybody that would like to be heard regarding these hearings there's not president Rindflash Thank you. I move that the hearings be closed We have a motion in a second to close the hearings Under discussion if there is none all in favor say aye opposed Hearings are closed consent agenda President Rindflash Thank you. I move from documents 11 1 to 11 9 that all report of officers be accepted and placed on file And all resolutions be put upon the passage We have a motion in a second Under discussion on the consent agenda There is no discussion roll call, please Warren aye Carlson. Hi Decker. Hi Haman. Hi Hammond. Hi Heidemann. Hi Koss. Hi Kittleson. Hi Manichek. Hi Rindflash. Hi Racler. Hi Samson Hi, Ben Akron. Hi Vanderweel. Hi Versi. Hi and belt. Hi 16 eyes motion carries Reports of officers to 1110 Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor In the interest of obvious our friends in the media here. I would like to pull forward document 1158 Okay, we have a motion to pull forward document number 1158 1158 being a Resolution by Alderman Hammond and Racler establishing the position of Chief Administrative Officer of the city of Sheboygan Motion the second on pulling it forward under discussion on pulling it forward only Pulling it forward Alderman Boren. Did you have a nothing all the person Kittleson on pulling the item forward? Thank You, mayor. I guess I'm pulling it forward. I would ask that we refer this document to the committee of the whole Okay, first we're pulling it forward discussion only I'm pulling it forward. Is there anybody opposed to the document being pulled forward Okay, it is pulled forward under discussion on the document Alderman Hammond It's your document if you'd like to I would I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage Second we have a motion a second to put it on its upon its passage now under discussion Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor Again, one of the things just for the interest of those at home. This is just a resolution establishing the position This is not putting the person into the position. This isn't creating the ordinances It's just taking that first step of creating the the position The ordinances will be according to the other items will be referred to salaries and grievances I have no problem if they want to forward those to the committee of the whole as well But I would hope that we could pass this resolution To at least create the position so we could keep moving forward with those other documents Thank You Alderman Hammond Alderperson Kittleson, please. Thank You mayor. I guess That being said I still feel that it would be a good idea for us to refer this document along with the three others eleven sixty two sixty three and Sixty-four to the committee of the whole simply for all of us to have a chance to Just talk about them I Feel that each of us should have a chance to weigh in on what's being said here. What's being offered? I Don't think that there has been enough discussion with all of us and to act to what actually is is going on here Thank You Alderperson Kittleson Sixty-two three and four presently are Scheduled to go to salary and grievances when those come up I'm sure the motion can be made to refer those to the committee of the whole also Basically, what we're discussing right now is referring 1158 to the committee of the whole that is the discussion at this point Alderman Lauren on Referral to committee of the whole or on passage It's we have a motion to refer to the committee of the whole in a second. No Past the resolution motion is to pass the resolution Okay, on discussion of passing the resolution, please Alderman Warren. Thank you, Mary Ann I support the concept of a chief financial officer or a city administrator and But I will not I will not support this document calling for a chief administrative officer I Agree with all our person Kittleson that the whole matter whether it be a chief administrative officer Or we end up calling it a city administrator should go to the committee of the whole first for consideration I appreciate the work that Alderman Hammond and Alderman Raceler did on this document But I won't support it because I don't think we I Think we should have further discussion on what we actually end up with with the title of the officer whether it be Chief administrative officer or city administrator So I won't support this document, but however I will support sending it to the committee of the whole Thank you Alderman Hammond. Thank you. Alderman born. Thank you to the to Alderman born's point The primary reason I put in the chief administrative officer title Call the city administrator, you know, I don't want to get hung up with semantics on this one But is to start to formulate a more of a business atmosphere inside City Hall Part of this process would also as many of you know be restructuring Changing titles again to foster more of an atmosphere of business To kind of echo what's going on in Madison that we're open for business And I think by changing the titles it also starts to change the mindset inside City Hall that we are to operate as a business And we are here as a business and we have customers which are you know our constituents? So that's the reason behind it nothing more nothing less Thank you Alderman Hammond Alderman born once again, please Thank you, and I agree with the the concept that Alderman Hammond said, however I think that the Next excellent place for this to start would be the committee of the whole and I would I would have a committee of the whole meeting on this item And any other items that may be referred tonight regarding this I would have that on Wednesday September 21st I already have a meeting I'm going to be having a meeting schedule for September 14th on some things that Chad Pellecek wants to bring to the committee of the whole's attention from development and that's going to be a full evening So I can't get this in on the 14th or we'd be here all night or they're all night But I plan on doing this and any other documents regarding city administrator chief administrator officer on the 21st and have a full discussion and Dedicate the meeting to that only and have a public forum for anybody that wants to win on this issue from the public also Thank you Thank You Alderman Boren we've heard from to Alderman while wanting to refer this to the committee of the whole Alderman Van Akron, please I would agree and I would like to See this referred to the committee the whole as well Just to give everyone here a chance to ask the questions and get the information But as well as the citizens of Sheboygan to come and get that in get that information and a chance to give their input as Well, I think we should take our time with this as it's a major change to city government And how we're going to be operating and I think all of us need a better chance to fully understand it and fully grasp What's all involved in this so I would too would support a motion to Refer this to the committee the whole Thank You Alderman Van Akron president were in flesh. Thank you Everyone knows I've been a advocate for city administrator for quite some time call city administrator chief administrator officer Chief operations officer. I don't really care for me. It is to bring in professional management within the workings of the city Professional management from a background experience for a business experience or from government experience We've been so close before and it's never happened We have a document in front of us that and all you really need to look at is the be it resolved That's the resolution part of that and it simply states the position of chief administrative officer Shall be created and appropriate actions be taken to establish the position effective October 1st. I Urge you to vote this today We've been close before and I thought we had majority in the past and it's it's failed in the past The appropriate actions can be discussed in the community whole and I look forward to that meeting the various documents Those can be amended in many different ways To fit Well, we come up with within that full discussion but I asked that you know, we're so close we have a document in front of us let's move this document and We can resolve all other issues in the committee the whole and refer it back to the full cabinet council later on So I support taking action on this today Okay, so the question is do we take action on this today or do we refer this to the committee of the whole? Can we take a vote on the We have a motion to put the resolution upon its passage We end a second now obviously if the Document is voted down upon its passage They will die at this point We could have a motion to refer it to the committee of the whole or if somebody would like to make that motion or We can vote on putting it upon its passage all the person kiddles him. Thank you mayor. I You know, I'm looking at your Alderman renfleich has stated here be it resolved that the position of chief Administrative as administrative officer shall be created and appropriate actions be taken to establish the position effective October 1st I guess The chief administrative officer. Are we do we know is it city manager? Is it city? Is it city administrator? I guess that's the discussion as well that I'm unsure of that should should take place Please thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Mayor To answer your question all the person kill soon. It would be more in line with the city administrator And again to echo president renfleich's comments again. What this is doing is just establishing the position All of the rest Whether it's committee the whole salaries and grievances To me doesn't matter can be vetted out, but it just gives us the ability to take the next step And again, that's why we worded it That shall be created any appropriate actions to be taken so that we can make any amendments or changes necessary to take this through But it would be modeled more like a city administrator type position Not a city manager Satisfied with that old person kiddles May I please do thank you. Thank you mayor. I guess is that something we do want to discuss? Again at committee of the whole Maybe that's something if anyone else has questions on that that we can have that open discussion At the committee of the whole meeting Just to put that out there for everyone as well how I'm not certain how other aldermen are feeling on that but Because this came about so quickly. I feel that the full discussion just needs to take place before we rush into any Thank you all the person kiddleson just a little bit of history. I did present a table of organization probably two years ago establishing three positions in the city one being a Director of operations one being Administration one being a director of development because we had people in those positions at that point The only new position was the director of operations That was subsequently didn't fly with the council. I think it fell one vote short Since then we've had some resolutions for city administrator, which I believe we're all within one vote also The way I see this right now The way that these documents are written. I am not opposed to Having Somebody in this position in the city I believe you know if the council wants to vet it out with you know exactly what it's called The title is semantics. I believe alderman Hammond's Title of Chief administrative officer Let's face it, you know, we're trying to get this city more in line with the business world and operate it like a business We have no choice because our revenues do not continually go up So we have no choice but to do that in principle. I do not disagree with this in principle, so You know that helps anybody make their decision now whether Right now we have a motion to put this upon its passage. We have no other motions So I guess we're still discussing at this point putting this resolution upon its passage And we have Alderman Boran again Thank You mayor. I don't want to see this die tonight because I do see a I do support the concept But I do want to have the discussion at the committee of the whole and I if this gets voted down tonight Then it's dead and somebody's gonna have to bring it back again. I would if we get to some of these documents later I think there's three more that pertain to this with more of the meat and potatoes of it And I before I'm prepared to vote on this tonight I would like to have the discussion at this at the committee of the whole I don't want it to see diet. I don't want to see a diet tonight because I do Approve the concept of a city administrative officer or a city administrator But I think it needs much more discussion than just voting on this tonight. Thank you Are you making a motion? Well, I don't like to make a motion of my own committee But if nobody else will I will make that's right. You're the chairman. I will make a motion. Probably shouldn't Somebody else wants to make a motion Alderman versey. You're right next star. Thank you For everyone to kind of make it real simple. This is just The position this is not the job description. This is nothing else to do with that position It's just authorizing us to create the position which we have to do first before we can get the rest of these documents to salary Agreements to go over the job description who we reports to and whatnot. This is just the position So I mean this can be voted on tonight because it is just a position has nothing to go farther than the position being created It's supporting this going through tonight the documents are going through the committee of the whole as well The substantial To hash it through again, but this is just the position again that we can go forward move forward. Thanks Thank you, Alderman versey Alderman Samson, please Thank You mr. Mayor if we need a motion to move this to committee of the whole then I'll make that motion to move This to the committee of the whole We have a motion to send to the committee of the whole that we have a second. We have a second from alderman belt Okay, so the discussion is Putting it upon its passage or moving it to the committee of the whole we do have a motion on the committee of the whole and next we have Alderman Carlson Yes, at the risk of beating a dead horse here and as Alderman versey and Hammond has said we're simply Creating position that the name it's all about semantics. Whatever you want to call it I I still think it's important to pass this tonight and just talk about the specifics and the details of it Thank You Alderman Carlson Alderman van Akron every time you hit your lady goes on off. It's probably the seat I know I very well and Bowers used to do that all very well could be thank you, mr. Mayor probably a faulty switch I To support some of the ideas in here And I look forward to discussing them at length But I do believe it needs to go to the committee of the whole just to discuss all the ideas I guess also a point of order question for City Attorney McLean just like any other resolution bringing this in if we were to act on this tonight Would we need to suspend the rules to move this forward wouldn't every other resolution be? Forwarded as well to some committee. I guess that's that's my question No, it's on there on the agenda properly it doesn't In and of itself it doesn't require it's not a contract doesn't require expenditure of funds or anything like that Answer your question all of them at Van Akron. Yes. Thank you Alderman Heidemann Thank you, ma'am Having been on the short end of the stick on these votes for city administrator well at two three years I'm gonna support this only because I don't want to see it die. I want to see it at the committee of the whole I want to be able to go through this process and make sure we got the right man right job right right obligations, but Having lost what two three votes on this already. I can't afford to see this go away and I'm gonna be in favor of it Thank you Thank You're Alderman Heidemann. Yeah, I lost both of mine by one vote to each way Alderman Boren one last time maybe please. Well, I would I would be to compromise I would be willing to go along with this tonight if I could make a friendly friendly amendment and that would be a resolution establishing the position of city administrative officer or City administrator to be term to be determined at the committee of the whole or I'll leave out the committee of the whole I'll just say a resolution We can we can work on the we can work on the official title later But I'm uncomfortable with calling it a city administrative officer. I've said before I I I like the Chief administrative officer. I like the concept but and I don't want to get hung up on the name But I think it's important That we get it right. Thanks. Alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I feel like a yo-yo all of a sudden I would I would accept your friendly amendment and Change it to a resolution established the position of Chief Administrator officer Such city administrator for the city of Sheboygan in the effort to move this forward and deal with the semantics at the committee of the whole So what is your amendment or your agreement on amendment just the chief administrative officer slash city administrator So we can have the conversation at the committee the whole Does that work for you Alderman born? Yes, it does Okay So we have a friendly amendment calling it the Chief Administrative Officer slash city administrator for the city of Sheboygan and We still Have two motions out there one to Senate's committee of the whole and one to put it upon its passage Alderman Hammond, thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd call the question on putting it upon its passage Okay, we're calling the question on putting the resolution upon its passage turning McLean Out of Robert's rules a motion to refer takes precedence so you need to vote on the motion I'd like to call the question on referring to committee of the whole I would we have a second on that second All in favor of calling the question state I I Opposed the question is called roll call, please an I vote will send this document to the committee of the whole And no vote will not So okay, you've got it. I vote would send it to committee of the whole okay Carlson. No Decker hi Haman no Hammond. No Heidemann. No. Ka. No Kittleson. No Maddochak. No Rinflesh. No Racler. No Samson. Hi Ben Akron. Hi Vanderweel. No Versi. No belt. Hi And born no four eyes 12 nose Motion fails Alderman Hammond Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I call the question on passage Second motion the second on calling the question on putting the resolution upon its passage as amended As amended under discussion All those in favor of calling the question state I Opposed question is called roll call, please Decker. Hi Hammond. Hi Haman. Hi Heidemann. Hi Kat. Hi Kittleson. Hi Maddochak. Hi Rinflesh. Hi Racler. Hi Samson. No Ben Akron. Hi Vanderweal. Hi Versi. Hi Belt. Hi Warren. Hi and Carlson. Hi 15 eyes one no Motion carries Alderman Hammond Thank You, Mr. Mayor Keeping the process moving along. I'd like to pull forward document 1159, please Okay, 1159 a resolution by Alderman Hammond and Racler terminating the removal proceedings by the Common Council against Mayor Ryan Alderman Van Akron. You keep turning it on and off just hit it one time Okay, you're not on right now. Would you like to be there you go Alderman Van Akron? Thank You, Mr. Mayor. I guess I would just ask that we pull documents 1159 through 1163 so we could deal with all of these right away 59 through 1163. Okay, right now we are We had a resolution that were a motion to pull forward 1159 We have a motion in a second on 1159 being pulled forward. Is there anybody opposed to 1159 being pulled forward? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion carries Alderman Van Akron. If I can I'd like to pull forward 1160 through 63 then as well just so that we can take these all in order and get this done Thank you. I think 62 and 63 are actually already going to be referred to committee. The whole of those are the ordinances that deal with the creation of the Precision we just approved 59 1661 deal with the matter Coming forward, so you'd like to pull 60 and 61 forward Alderman Van Akron? We have a second on 60 and 61 they will be taken in order anyway second Second to pull 60 and 61 anybody opposed to 60 and 61 being pulled forward All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay We are back to We have 1159 60 and 61 pulled forward discussing 1159 Alderman Hammond Thank you. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage back in We have a motion in a second to put upon its passage under discussion Alderman Van Akron Mr. Mayor, I guess I would like to call a point of order being that these obviously have to do with you I guess I would question the Conflict of interest obviously with these matters. I certainly think it's inappropriate for you to preside over these Three resolutions, so I certainly would ask you to recuse yourself from these three matters I will recuse myself from voting on these three matters If that satisfies you Okay under discussion on 1159 we have a motion In a second to put upon its passage under discussion Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor I'm gonna kind of read some prepared remarks regarding this, so you know forgive me for this But first I'd like to acknowledge those individuals that came forward with complaints regarding the mayor's actions several weeks ago I believe their actions are to be commended in a city of almost 50,000 people Only a few had the courage to come through with a formal complaint and for again the end for that I commend them and thank them for doing that. This has been a trying and stressful time for the city And this body in particular However now I believe it's time to move forward for the good of our city There are many positive things happening in the city right now, especially from an economic development standpoint And a lot of it many on this council or even in the city may not be aware of and from my standpoint It'd be a shame to lose one job opportunity from a prospective business because we take this process to the nuclear option Additionally, I think this body also needs to consider some of the collateral damage that could happen By taking this process even further First off, it'll be a huge distraction to the good work inside City Hall and secondly to the city's reputation going forward There are some that believe by ending this process the mayor wins. I could not disagree more with that with that assumption He agreed to submit the random testing and the day-to-day operations will now be turned over Possibly to a chief administrative officer slash city administrator that will report to the council Additionally as this body we've taken more we've taken this process further than any other elected body has ever taken this process At least in recent history and I do believe now the mayor realizes the seriousness of his actions Some will say that by any this process. We're condoning the mayor's actions Hardly this body has been very clear that the mayor's actions were indefensible and embarrassing to the city and again This body has taken unprecedented steps to make this point well known Some contend we have an obligation to investigate the complaints filed by our fine citizens However, we also have an obligation to protect the reputation of our city and to move this city forward Again, this process will be a tremendous distraction to this council and to the work going on side inside City Hall We have a budget deficit to deal with ongoing contract negotiations and economic development opportunities to focus on some believe that this is a simple quasi judicial hearing and Let's have an attorney do an investigation and report back to the findings of the report back to findings to the council Anybody believes this process is going to be simple Is my opinion not looking at this process objectively? We are in uncharted waters. This process could last for weeks or months. Nobody knows What we do know is that the good work of the city needs to continue and this will be a huge distraction As far as an investigation, I wonder what we'll find out that we already don't know The details may get more sensational for our friends in the media. However, I'm not sure that we'll find out Anything that we aren't already aware of and again the media circus will ensue Finally, I'm not trying to let the mayor off the hook or sweep this under the rug Any thought of that is absurd. Everybody in this council body knows that I have been one of the more open critics of his behavior on that weekend I've been one of the most vocal about his behavior and the one on this council that spoke out regarding his little Comments to us Indicating that I don't appreciate being lectured by the the individual that created this mess However, I believe we now need to move forward for the good of our city Not for the good of Bob Ryan, but for the good of our city I know that many on the council are angry with the mayor's behavior. I'm not pleased with it either However, this is the time to put the city first and move on I believe we've made our point and we've taken our action and now it's time to move over move forward. Thank you Thank you Alderman Hammond Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Alderman Hammond. Obviously I co-sponsored this with Alderman Hammond my Charge is again the financial Obligation that we're going to incur from this again. I Warn you that there are many hidden costs out there that we are not going to be prepared for We have subpoena fees witness fees mileage Attorney fees for the mayor depending upon what the end resolution is for that and I'm again hearing a lot of Financial discussions that we obviously with the deficit we have for our upcoming budget cannot afford this and again, I Support this again mostly on the financial aspects. I do not Think that the actions that the mayor took initially were proper But again, you have to look at moving on and the financial stability of the city. Thank you Thank you, Alderman racelift Alderman Samson. Thank you, Mr. Mayor as much as I do appreciate The willingness for everybody just want to move forward with this. I I certainly believe we have the obligation to Complete the process of those two verified complaints to the city We never had a chance to discuss with the attorneys that would possibly Represent us to tell us what those potential costs would be We we were taking that away from us last week when we had that opportunity It's extremely disappointing that that did happen that there were discussions going on with very few people Certainly, not the not the council as a whole with coming up with this very nice elaborate conclusion I feel that it's been a disservice for us not to be able to discuss this with those attorneys And I would like to see this complete or continue so we can so then if there is those hidden fees I'm certain that those attorneys would be more than happy to open up if we asked them Are there any hidden fees? I'd like to see that but if we don't get the chance to talk with the attorneys We'll never know what fees are out there in the open or in secret. Thank you Thank you, Alderman Samson. Is there any further input? Alderman born Thank you, my Ryan. I Agree with Alderman Samson that I think we we ought to our constituents that came forward with these complaints to go through and at least do the Investigation and I'm not here to do any mudslinging at all tonight But some of the comments that Alderman Hammond made just the opposite could be true that We have we possibly have been disgraced already where prospective companies That want to come into Sheboygan may not we be willing to do business with us if the mayor is in the chair And that's all I'm going to say on that. I'm not going to get any any other any other explanation other than that The majority of people that I have talked to my constituents are for to go forward and at least do the Investigation find out if we have a case and then we can make the decision and I'm also I agree with Alderman The Alderman that our attorney is going to point out any particular hidden costs He's prepared to do this pro bono Including the quasi judicial hearing Appeal all the way up the ladder of the courts And I think we should at least take the opportunity to find out if we have a case if we do we move forward and if we don't There's the mayor is going to be mayor for another 13 months. Thank you Thank you, Alderman Boren Alderman van Akron Thank you, mayor. I agree with Alderman Boren and Alderman Samson that I do believe we have an obligation or duty to go forward with investigating these Allegations I take no joy in this matter. I don't think anyone here does. I don't think anyone has to be put in this situation It certainly is ugly. It certainly has been a large distraction to the city and I'm disappointed that the city finds itself in this position But I do believe we have an obligation and a duty to the people that elected us to follow through with these type of Investigations just like we would with any other city employee I don't think any other city employee would have a complaint like this brought against them and have the process and before It's at least investigated. I think we have an obligation to go through with the investigation and at that time There's no merit and there's no grounds and it's unfounded. So be it The mayor himself has said that his actions will not meet grounds for removal He should welcome an investigation to say exactly that I think we need to go forward with this especially at the cost of for free from the our attorneys Is there possibly hidden costs if we go further than the investigation? There is possibly But I think we have to investigate this matter to at least Find out what we are going to stop I mean at this point we are dealing with Accusations rumors and allegations that the mayor said won't meet the level for removal. Well, I think we need to find out I think that's our duty. That's our obligation I think we are elected to make those hard decisions and people depend on us to do that I think we need to go forward with this process Thank you, Alderman Van Akron Any further discussion? President Rintlish Thank you Everybody in this council chambers knows how sick I've been of this whole process not something I asked for when I Ran from this position as president of the council, but it's one I accept freely The role of the president is to represent as best as one can all 16 members to reach consensus Reach agreements and move forward As best as we can that's been a struggle certainly in the last 40 days or so And so if anybody finds faults, I apologize simply Doing what I felt is right feels right as we go forward An interesting phone call today on the way here. I was not able to answer the phone They did leave a voice message and the voice message was from a constituent who had said that she thanked me for sticking to my principles She didn't say what she felt my principles were just thank me for sticking to them It did force myself to ask what are my principles? in coming in today and It's always been to do what I feel is best for the city Nothing more nothing less As we sat down I looked at Sue's quote of the day and if I may paraphrase very just a little bit when all things are said and done Life is not always as we plan but required to do the best that we can with the situation at hand Well, what is the situation at hands? We find ourselves where we are because of the actions taken in all Cart Lake the embarrassment caused to the city requests for his losing nation which he denied turned down You also find ourselves here by The mayor and the attorneys Not threatening us the wrong word. I apologize for that, but I can't find a better word right now But discussing perhaps the length of the process To certainly offer a vigorous defense, which everyone is entitled to in our system So knowing that and knowing that we are at the brink And I do respectfully disagree to say that we can take a step over and just investigate and step back I think once we take that stuff over we've taken a step into over the brink And we have to be ready to go all the way So I go back to my question. What are my principles? Is my principle to get Bob Ryan? No, it is not that's politics That is not policy Our positions here require us to create policies and again My principle is to do what's best for the city. What policy is best for the city? Is it best to continue with the media circus that we've had? Although bear in mind is not a circus that this body as a council did not create but the actions of Bob Ryan did I Cannot control the embarrassment that has happened to the city. I can only control the actions that I take going forward Make no mistake. I'm very angry about finding a position where we're in right now It was angry that I'm angry that we're position not by any of actions that the council has taken But the reactions that we've had to take So if this council does decide To reject this resolution and go forward as presents. I will do what I need to to proceed Before we take that step. I do ask its body consider Just consider it first to end the process that that the mayor started with his actions in Elkhart Lake We need to ask ourselves. What are our principles? What is our end game to reach those principles and at what cost I'm not talking financial cost in this case We know pro bono and yes, there will be hitting costs. We know that there will be a cost to the city That's not even talking about I'm talking about the cost to the opportunities to move forward in this city. I Echo all the all the person's Hammond's comments that by no means do I seek to Forgive the actions by no means do I seek to sweep it under the rug? But the cost the city I fear Embarrassment in media circus and lost opportunity. We've already perhaps lost opportunity. How much more do you want to miss? I am convinced that the majority of my constituents want The mayor and Bob Ryan not to be in that position anymore, but that's a political comment. That's not policy. I Think the majority of those that want him removed also want this process ended. That's my phone calls That's policy not politics and that's the decision that I have to look at and take Intend to whatever happens today hold my head up high But I've stuck to my principles that I've done what I felt is best for the city and moving forward There is no deal that I promised there is no Again letting anybody off the hook Instead I think it's the best to move the city forward Again, this is not forgiveness for Bob. There's a price to pay for his actions to his reputation And he is paying that and will continue to pay that But in my opinion the citizens do not need to continue to pay the happy price So at this point with a heavy heart, I will support ending the process. Thank you Thank you, Alderman president Rindflesch Alderman Maddichick I just had a simple question of we're saying precedence here with this if we don't end this now By moving ahead will we continue we're lucky right now to have our attorney offering for bono But perhaps the next time we won't have that same option And will we all it as precedence to look into every little complaint that comes into the city or should we as a council Make a decision about the complaint moving forward or not Thank you Alderman Maddichick Board is open any further discussion Alderman Van Akron once again Thank You mayor. I Guess I would politely disagree with President Rindflesch that Once we take this step that we are committed to going You know all the way through with this I don't think there's anybody that would be committed to following through with this if our attorneys after Investigating this comeback and say there are no grounds and no basis to move forward Again, I go back to the fact that we're talking about ignoring complaints that citizens have brought forward without even investigating them And I just can't see Myself doing that and I personally can't see why this body would want to do that again I think we have an obligation and a duty to at least Investigate these matters and to find out what we're talking about again. We're talking about allegations and rumors and accusations We have a duty to investigate this and I can't see why the council would want to just ignore those complaints and To end this process before an investigation is even completed Thank You Alderman Van Akron Alderman Hammond Thank You first off I'd like to say I respect your opinion, but I think what the city want city citizens want us to do is Come to a resolution. That's meaningful I think We haven't ignored the complaints or we wouldn't be sitting here right now talking about hiring attorneys Because we had to have those complaints before we could even take that step So I don't believe we've ignored their their complaints But I also agree with Alderman Rindflush that by principle I agree we need to move forward There are just too many good things happening to bog this council down for another even if it's a month in This issue again. I also reiterate. I don't know if there's anything additionally We're going to find out through an investigation that we already don't know but now have again spent a month trying to figure all this out So again, I respectfully disagree that we've ignored their complaints. I Think we've gotten to this point because of their complaints And now it's time to move forward Thank you Alderman Hammond Alderman Carlson Thank You mayor I've been pretty clear and I voted against moving forward with this with just about every vote And I think Everyone's pretty much covered it for the most part, but I just wanted to word it in ways my brain functions Winning the battle is not really the important part. It's how we're going to come out after it Sure, we we could we could win this battle. We could remove the mayor, but this wouldn't stop That's not doing good for anybody. It's not doing good for you your family It's not going to do anything good for us and it's not going to do anything for our city So once again winning the battle is not the important part. It's how we're going to come out in the end and It's all I got. Thank you Thank You Alderman Carlson all the person Kittleson Thank You mayor. I too have been listening to everybody's comments and My comment is that As I said, I think that the silent majority of people who who vote us in who have neither the time nor the inclination to run for office expect us to do a job here and This has never been an easy job and and this is even harder and I think this is what we've Been going through has been very sad and it's been very difficult for everybody It's not this isn't easy and we don't take any joy here It's not fun. It's just not fun what we're going through. However, I do believe that we need to listen to what these complaints are We've got a lawyer coming to do this pro bono for us I think we need to hear what he has to say and if there is nothing then As Alderman Van Akron said so be it and there's nothing there and we will carry on and I think good things will happen In the city regardless we as Alderman need to continue to do our jobs and we do them every day So that being said, I think we need to go forward with this. Thank you Thank you all to person Kittleson Board is open Any further discussion? President Rindflash last comments for me on this issue I Don't anybody to think that It's a vote switch for me the I nae vote may appear switched, but it's always been with the same idea in mind was best for the city I've now been a part of asking the mayor to resign twice in a year and a half or so I don't anybody to think that it's because you know granting a Absolution for all past sins But The key is what's the future look like for the city and that's something that I have to keep in mind Say the process begins say our investigator Says there's reason to proceed we proceed Say there's enough cause To vote for removal First thing that has to happen is deal with any appeals process. That's gonna take a while Second thing that has to happen is we have to appoint someone to fill that mayor role We know then in spring probably be appropriate time to hold an election because we want any mayor that doesn't have the will of the people Supporting that person that come in spring within a year away from another election for a four-year term It is possible that including mayor Ryan we could have four mayors within what 18 months 16 months I don't see how that Improves the future of the city Furthermore looking forward in the judicial process any judicial process again, not an attorney don't pretend to be one Well, we heard something very specific when we did interview attorneys and why I spoke to other attorneys unrelated to this case Judicial process isn't necessarily always find a winner and a loser But to reach some kind of settlement some kind of compromise And one attorney had told me that's actually very rare to go all the way through depending on court cases to hear You know a final You know the peers make a final decision that usually cases are solved in the meantime Well, if that's the judicial process and we're doing a quasi judicial process Do we not owe it to ourselves to see if there's a solution available to us now? Before we take over that step over the brink Again, everyone should know my personal feelings But that's neither here nor there at this point in time It is my professional opinion that we need to move on from this and there's probably gonna be a cost to pay price to pay For myself for making that statement Plenty people I know we're gonna disagree with that statement, but it is with Literally probably decision in the last half hour. I finally made To make sure that we move forward with the city, I think this is the best way at this point in time So keep in mind what does the future look like? What do you want the city to look like in the future and? Then whatever the vision is take steps to get there for me that is to end this right now Thank you again president Rindflash Any further comment? Yeah, I have no lights here We will take a roll call vote the question Hand And I vote will mean And I'll see to the resolution is to terminate the process Okay, and I vote would terminate the process a no vote would continue the process That's correct correct everybody clear on that Roll call, please Haman I Hammond hi, hi to men. No, cut. No, kittleson. No matter check. Hi Rindflash Racelor hi Samson. No, Van Akron. No Vanderweal. Hi, Versi. No Belt no foreign. No Carlson. Hi and Decker. No Seven eyes nine nose motion fails Okay, we will now move to 1160 which was pulled forward Resolution by Alderman Rindflash authorizing the Common Council to engage the services of special outside legal counsel to represent the council with regard to a quasi judicial hearing in authorizing payment for said services President Rindflash Alderman born you would like this, please. Thanks, ma'am. I Would just as soon I would make a motion or to deal with 1161 first because if 1161 is not successful then 1160 is a move point So I'd move to I'd moved a vote on 1161 first Okay, we have a motion on 1161 a resolution by Alderman Rindflash Authorizing the Common Council to engage the services of special outside legal counsel to represent the city of Sheboygan in the role of Special prosecutor with regard to a quasi judicial hearing Oh, I'm sorry on a motion day. Okay. Well, they were both pulled forward so Okay President Rindflash you're beeped in on this Thank you. I move that we put the resolution upon its passage second I'm sorry. Who's seconded it? Okay, we have a motion a second to put upon its passage under discussion under discussion if I may please The attorneys as per originally my request but furthermore by their recommendation are not here this evening to answer questions It was felt that with the previous documents on the agenda That the presence with money the waters quite a bit So if there are any questions, I would ask that we actually hold these over if you wish to proceed Again, neither turning our here to answer further questions Excuse me Alderman Rindflash. What did you want to do with it? I made no motion. I think you lost your mic. I Made no motion. I simply discussed my motion was to put a resolution upon its passage I stated though that the attorneys are not here to answer any questions of questions Are are there to be had I asked that someone can make a motion to hold it over to the next meeting or call a special meeting but Originally is it per my request but then under further discussion by their recommendation that they do not attend based on The previous document being on the agenda Thank You president Rindflash Alderman board Thanks, mayor. I don't know if it's appropriate to do it at this time, but I wanted to pull forward document number 1120 That was going to be referred to the committee of the whole however depending on how 1161 comes out. I'd want to Not refer that to the committee of the whole depending on what happens to 1161 1120 is the submitting a citizen complaint from practically Gillette regarding the conduct of the mayor during the August 15th 2011 meeting If 1161 passes Then I would ask that this not be forwarded to the committee of the whole and be referred to the special prosecutor For the time being I just want to pull it forward Okay We have a motion to pull forward 1120 do we have a second on pulling it forward second? Motion the second to pull it forward under discussion pulling forward only Is there anybody opposed to the document being pulled forward? All in favor of pulling forward to say aye. Aye opposed Okay, anything else That's it. Thank you Thank You mr. Mayor The resolution not having the attorneys here as Alderman Rindflush indicated And kind of similar to the conversation about the city administrator Chief administrative officer It would be at least my desire to be able to discuss and ask questions openly with these attorneys versus Passing a resolution to hire them before we've had a chance to discuss them It's you know, there's been three people that have had conversations with them I think you know the remaining 13 of us should have an opportunity to Discuss with them and also ask some of the questions that have been raised by people like Alderman Reisler Regarding some of the additional cost So I'm going to make a motion we hold this to the next meeting or to the committee the whole meeting on the 21st when the attorneys can be present to Ask questions second Okay, we have a motion and a second to hold or refer to the committee of the whole Due to the fact that there are no attorneys present Correct Alderman. Yeah, either one is fine. Okay On those issues under discussion We have Alderman Boren again. Thank you This comes as a big surprise to me and being part of council leadership as chairman of the committee of the whole and I can speak for myself. I can't speak for Alderman Decker This comes so comes to a complete surprise to me that these attorneys are not here tonight and I take a Offense to the fact that president Rindfleisch did not confer was us as council leadership from particular Alderman Decker He's the vice president that these attorneys were not going to be here tonight They were going to be here tonight and they were going to answer any questions that we that we had that we that we would ask and to me Asking to go for this to go back to the committee of the whole is nothing but a stall and I'm going to have to think twice about even putting this on the agenda for the committee of the whole Let's deal with this tonight. Let's get it over the other document 11 59 Failed let's decide tonight whether we're going to hire the attorneys. Thank you Thank you Alderman Boren Alderman van Akron Thank you, your honor. I agree with Alderman Boren that This is disappointing. I think we need to get this underway We have discussed this at length for the you know over the last month We discussed this at length in the committee the whole as to what is involved in retaining these attorneys what the costs are We discussed at length With the council leadership their report as to their interviews with them as well as the recommendations Obviously, I think if something would come up at some point. There's nothing to say that we can't stop that process There's nothing to say that we can't Stop the process which is free at this point with retaining these attorneys. I think we need to get this moving we Have discussed this we have kicked this around long enough It is time to get this process underway again We just voted down the last process to the last motion to stop this process I don't want to see this stall any farther. I think as everyone has stated There is a sense of wanting to get this completed one way or the other and I think we need to get that moving Thank you Alderman van Akron Alderman Maddichek. Oh, I would just simply appreciate the chance to actually get to meet their attorney before we would hire their attorney and Perhaps during the interview process if they could offer up their estimated costs of the Witness fees that transportation and such things like that before we also Make a decision on hiring Thank you Alderman Maddichek president Rindflash Going back to the motion to Was it to hold or refer to the documents? I think he just mentioned 1161 not 1160 So I was going to point that one out as well. It might as take 1160 as well Alderman Hammond, please Wow, that got kind of interesting really quick first off I Take a little offense in the Canadians a stall tactic We're about to take an unprecedented action And you're saying on the will on the on the word of three individuals on a council of 16 We're just supposed to say okay When when we had the conversation about a city administrator, which we all agree is a no-brainer That had to go back to the committee of the whole to be vetted and discussed at length. I Think trying to ram this thing through without giving us the opportunity to discuss this with the attorneys and ask our questions is Inconscionable if you've got a vendetta then express it But don't try to do it at the backs of this resolution Thank you Alderman Hammond I'm all for moving this back over so we can all holding this over We've got to talk to these people I for one am not about to Stake everything that we're going to do that we're planning on doing what we're talking about doing on This without having talked to them Getting the answers to all the questions that do need to be answered We go forward with this and we hired two attorneys in here and oops surprise. We screwed up That's going to rest in the back of this 16 people and that's not going to go away easily We've already got a cloud hanging over the top of us and to go forward without having all the questions answered on our behalf is Ludegress We can't move forward on this without those questions being answered. I'm just as tired of it as everybody I want my life back You know, this has been one hell of a honeymoon period for me and I want to see this done But I'm not about to do this Without having those questions answered Thank You Alderman Hammond Alderman Boren again With no offense to the other Alderman. It's time to move on 1159 said move on let's move on let's hire these attorneys and let's get it over with it We went through the interview process the three of us we agreed to go ahead and In the committee of the whole to hire these attorneys I think Alderman Rindfleisch laid out pretty well what the process is going to be it's going to be pro bono for Michael best And there is going to be a charge for the other attorney I'll talk about that when we get to it But the decision has been made now to move ahead with this and I don't want to wait another two weeks I don't think the city of Sheboygan wants to wait another two weeks. Let's move on hire the lawyer Have them do his investigation and find out what we've got. Thank you Thank You Alderman Boren This is a discussion on what to do with these documents whether to refer them or with it to act on them tonight I'm just stating which I'm not going to affect your vote But I think this council owes it to itself To also hear what my attorneys have to say Before moving forward with this they would have also been here tonight if attorneys were here tonight Alderman born. Thank you I would have I would have called a point of order had your attorneys been here tonight It's not time to hear anything your attorneys have to say mayor with all due respect. That's that's far as I'm concerned That's not on her plate right now, and I would have called a point of order and stop the discussion. Thank you Thank You Alderman born and they aren't here President in flesh, please Oh Alderman born would you like to continue you have your light lit again. No, thank you any further discussion. I have no lights mayor Alderman Hammond you actually made a motion to hold and refer can't do both. Which would you prefer? You want to refer it to committee that is that the motion you want? I mean told them in born's point and when we had it to committee to hold if the attorneys will be here for the next Meeting I have no problem with holding it to the next meeting And have the attorneys to the next council meeting. Okay That's your motion to hold to the next council meeting Yes, that'd be sooner than one alderman born could get on the committee the whole docket anyways Do we have a second on that? Motion the second to hold to the next council meeting any discussion on that item and that issue holding till the next council Okay, we'll take a roll call on that and I vote will hold to the next council meeting a no vote Well, not and we'll be back to discussion on the issue and we are taking 60 and six and six and correct We say we're taking those together We're just on 61 at this point just on 61 just on 61 Hammond hi Heidemann hi cut no Kittleson hi Maddachuk hi Rinflesh hi Racelor hi Samson. No van Akron. No Vanderweel I Versi no Belt no born. No Carlson. All right Decker. No and Hammond I nine eyes seven nose Motion carries so that is 11 61 61 On 1160 Resolution by Alderman Rinflesh authorizing the Common Council to engage the services special outside legal counsel to represent the council with regard to a quasi Judicial hearing and authorizing payment for said services President Rinflesh, thank you. I move that we also hold this documents to the next council meeting second Motion the second to hold to the next council meeting under discussion There's no discussion all in favor of holding state I Opposed no, no told a roll call, please and I vote will hold a no vote will not Heidemann hi cut no Kittleson hi Maddachuk Hi, Rinflesh. Hi Racelor. Hi Samson. No van Akron. No Vanderweel. Hi Versi no belt. No, Lauren. No Carlson. Hi Decker. No Haman hi and Hammond. Hi 97 I don't will be held until the next council meeting Okay, we also had You wanted to pull forward 20. I believe Alderman Let's let's also hold that to the next council meeting to see what happens Okay, that is now referred to the committee of the whole yet. Do you want it to still go there? No, keep it. Okay. You're making a motion making a motion to hold that also the next council meeting depending on what? We'll act on that depending on what happens with 1161 at the next next meeting. So very good 1120 Lies over in a second to hold to the next council meeting. It just lies over Oh, it lies over. Okay. It just lies over till next meeting Very good big time see Okay, are there any other items under discussion right now we have 830 right now We will have a long meeting Alderman Boren Yeah, having to thank you mayor, I would like to pull forward 1162 63 and 64 and Why I don't want to make the motion myself because it's my committee But if somebody else wants to make a motion to send those three documents to the committee of the whole rather Salary and grievances I would appreciate it and we'll have that discussion on the 21st so moved second motion in a second to refer those to the committee of the whole and Salary and grievances committee of the whole only just committee of the whole Okay Motion to scratch salary and grievances send those to committee of the whole the other document is also going to committee of the whole if we recall Just a Hammond police quick point of question for attorney McLean because there's job descriptions in this Can the kiddie committee of the whole approved job descriptions that only salaries and grievances? So if it went to committee the whole could the whole thing be done through that or would it happen? I have to go back to salary and grievances on chat Ordinance is called for salary and grievance to President refresh did you have something on this? Yeah, I'm not sure who made the motion who got the second Between the two of us, but I would ask for them for a dual referral first of course I dislike immensely but that way the committee of the whole can have their say but the grievances can Do the appropriate procedure? So we will have committee of the whole first in a referral post committee of the whole to salary and grievances probably amendments Is that your amendment first? Maybe of the whole first followed by salary and grievances. Is anybody opposed to that Steve does that work? Well, I think that's up to the committee chairman It's the one-day time in the meetings if they want to hold the salary and grievance meeting tomorrow and they can get the notice out 24 hours in advance If it gets referred to that committee We just leave it as a dual referral Second that Okay, we have a dual referral on that under discussion on the referral only Alderman Samson. Did you have something on the referral? Okay, we have Alderman Vercy. Did you have anything on referring these could be old lights? Alderman Boren anything on referring? Yes Is it going to committee of the whole first and salaries and grievances second? I I think that would be appropriate to let us come to salary and grievance with a clean document from all the Alderman Rather than going to salary and grievance first and then we haven't had a chance to discuss it as a group That would be my opinion Alderman Hammond any comment on that? No, I have my lights old. Okay, so we have a it's going to go to committee of the whole And then salary and grievance Doesn't need anything doesn't need anything. It's just a doesn't need about anybody disagree with it Very well Okay, so those three docs are done now. I believe we have our The pertinent business finished at this point It's 20 to 9. We still have a lot of issues to discuss here. I believe we made it all the way to Document 1110 reports of officers to what anybody like to take a Small break here before we continue It's good go on a couple more hours unless The our friends in the media would like to hear about our upcoming sewer projects Any anybody? No, okay Call for a 10-minute recess. We will reconvene If a person who voted to hold over the Documents having to do with hire the attorney rather than holding it over to the next council meeting I would be willing to put that on the Wednesday September 14th agenda so that we could have that discussion with the attorneys next Wednesday providing they can be here and then After that discussion if the council sees fit to make a recommendation either yay or nay on hiring the attorneys then bring that to the council The 14th I got to tell you because I got two things that I have to do for Chad Pelle check I was also going to have a update from Director of Motio on the budget process that possibly I could put off till the 28th I'll talk to director of Motio, but if somebody that made that motion to hold those two documents on the attorneys Over to the next council meeting If they would allow me to Bring those two documents to the committee of the whole on 914. I would appreciate it I believe Alderman Hammond. Did you make the Who made the motion? You can do it all the president Rindfleisch. Yeah, I move to reconsider the vote to hold it over Second Were you on the positive side Joe? Okay Okay, so we have a motion in a second to reconsider the vote on holding it over we will have to vote on that first To reconsider the vote on holding these Documents, which documents are we discussing here Alderman born that was document number? 60 and 61 60 and 61 document 60 and 61 until The vote would be to reconsider first of all Holding them over until the next council meeting that is what is under discussion right now Alderman Raceler just curious. What time are you having the meeting on the 14th? It would be that it would be at 6 30 because it would be after public protection and safety We have kind of we have negotiations on any truth Yes, I think Alderman Hammond mentioned that to me. That's and I also talked to Alderperson Kittles And then she thought she would be done by 6 o'clock but to be on the safe side 6 30 Could we make it whenever that would be done in case she would be done early that we can start early? No, we have to post it. You have to post a time. It can be later, but it can't be earlier We do six o'clock and you want to never I'll post it at six o'clock or after And it's like if it's gonna be a long meeting like to kind of get going and sure I'll post it at six or after public protection and safety. You know, you don't like sleeping at night, do you? Alderperson Kittleson you have a comment on that. No, that's fine. That would be fine Alderman Hammond my only comment would be a little concerned we Couldn't fit the city administrator conversation on the 14th because the agenda is full and now for the attorneys. It's it's not I'd be happy to support this However, I'd like to see the city administrator on that agenda as well fully known that alderman born is the Chair of that committee, but I think You know if it if one if it's too full for one help, you know all of a sudden all this time is created So if director emotio is not going to be there I don't know why we couldn't consider that same time and keep that process moving on as well I don't have I don't have a problem with that alderman Hammond or mayor It just depends on how long the other persons want to be here on their 14th. I want to give Chad Pellecek his do on those two items one of which could possibly be held over but I Would rather do them on the 14th because Chad asked me that a long time ago So if we're prepared to be here late on the 14th, I have no no problem Bringing the other ones forward on the city administrator Also Yeah, we don't it was just a friendly He's willing to do that. I was that held over that was for the whole is right You're talking all the documents that was this is and everything Those were referred to the committee of the whole so it's I guess it's my purview one We're gonna have them and I'll have them on the 14th as long as everybody's willing to stay late on the 14th We don't have to have a meeting on the 21st or if you don't get through it on the 14th You can always have it again on the 21st. No, we'll go into the 15th. I Got that day off. I'm okay with that Okay, so what's the motion Alderman Hammond? Would you like to just like to call a question? Okay, and what is the what is the question to reconsider reconsider? Okay, the question is to reconsider the vote Reconsider holding the document the document 60 and 61 we're discussing here, right and I'm also going to do The what were those other documents those were the I think 62 63 and 64 we're gonna do those all on the 14th And we don't need that in the motion because it's already referred to you, right? Okay, so 60 and 61 We have a motion to reconsider the vote of sending those to the next to hold till the next council meeting So we will do a roll call on this An aye vote will be to reconsider a no vote will not be to reconsider this everybody understand that that's 60 and 61 If it's a no vote, they will be held till the next council meeting if it's an aye vote We will reconsider at which point we'll have another vote Everybody understand roll call, please No, I Born I Carlson Decker Haman, hi Hammond, I'm changing your name. I don't care Heidemann hi, I kiddleson. I mana check. Hi, Rinfleshe. Hi, Racer. Hi, Samson. Hi, Van Akron. Hi Vanderweel. Hi and versey. Hi 69 Okay, motion carries now we need a motion from Alderman Hammond I Move that we refer those documents in question to the committee of the whole Okay, we have a motion to refer 60 and 61 to the committee of the whole And Alderman Boren has stated that will be on the 14th correct Under discussion on that I think so. Yes, all in favor say aye. I opposed They go to the committee of the whole Okay, any further discussion moving on back to page two of our agenda the reports of officers to 1110 through 1129 are all to be referred Alderman Hammond Resolutions introduced 3 1130 by Alderman Hammond authorizing retaining Outside legal counsel to represent the city in several realist real property assessment appeals and authorizing payment for said services Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor. I'd asked that we suspend the rules Second motion the second on suspension of the rules under discussion on suspension only Alderman Hammond Thank you. The reason we need to suspend the rules is when these Requests come in we have 20 days to respond and I think they're about a week old according to City Attorney McLean, so we need to get this law firm on board so we can respond to these requests Is there anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? Rules are suspended. Please continue. I move the resolution be put upon its passage We have a motion to put the resolution upon its passage Alderman Boren Thank You very Ryan attorney McLean. This question is for you in the past these types of things This these types of matters Is this going to be something that drags on for a few months before this is resolved? I'm just was this the one that has to do with Walgreens or am I thinking one in the past? I Know we had one with Walgreens with Walgreens and with Memorial Mall and Did that become rather costly with outside counsel in the past on those kinds of matters not too bad This this firm Madison is representing another number of communities on wall Walgreens is appealing all the property tax assessments throughout the state I think we'll get the benefit of a lot of work that this firm has done Defending Walgreens appeals the last time Walgreens appealed. It was just the one store that they appealed I Handled that internally and that dragged on we ended up doing two years, and we got a settlement That was satisfactory to the city What they're asking now is to go even beyond that and they're asking for significant reductions on their assessment We used Miss Trupke most recently in the Blue Harbor condo case We went to mediation on that and got a I think a favorable resolution they She and their firm Experts in this sort of work. I Recommend hiring them to handle these are big assessments They have millions of dollars Difference that they're requesting so it ends up to be a fairly significant dollar amount on taxes and It's not just one year once you reduce the assessment. It continues year after year If it wasn't so many of them and it wasn't big dollars on these I probably do them in-house But I I really think we'd be well served to have outside counsel Represent the city on this Thanks, if I could just follow up in this type of a in this type of a matter attorney McLean If we are if the city is successful, is there a chance that with the agreement? We can be reimbursed for our legal fees or there has that happened in the past or is there isn't it possible in this kind of a matter Generally if you get some resolution the resolution is that each party takes care of their own attorney fees I haven't seen any sort of settled sorts of cases like this where where the Taxpayer agrees to pick up to the city's Attorney fees. I mean we could ask but I doubt if that's likely outcome Thank you Thank You Alderman barn any further discussion. I Would also make another comment Talk to this Trump key somewhat about these already and talk to Lee Grossnick Especially with respect to the Walgreens. We did agree to reduce the one I believe it was the 14th and Erie one that they appealed a couple years ago But now I Think we're to the point where we're not really looking at Compromising these I think these probably will go to hearing because I in our view Walgreens is requesting a very very low dollar figure and I think throughout the state were we're on the low end of Walgreens assessments throughout the state already And Walgreens is notorious for challenging assessments Any further discussion? There is no roll call, please Hi, Carlson. Hi, Decker. Hi, I'm staying Hammond. Hi. Hi to men. Hi. Hi. It'll sit. Hi, man. Check. I win place. Hi Braceler. Hi, Samson. Hi, Van Akron. Hi Vander wheel. Hi, Percy. Hi and belt. Hi 14 eyes one abstention motion carries 1131 by Alderman Hammond authorizing entering into an intergovernmental Cooperation agreement with the city of Plymouth for IT services Alderman Hammond. Thank you, Mr. Mayor I would also request that we bring forward document 1149 as they relate to each other, okay 1149 Is Document by finance recommending authorizing into into the same agreement with the village of Kohler Alderman Hammond Thank you. I move that the report of committee for 1149 Be accepted and adopted and the two resolutions be put upon their passage second We have a motion in a second. It says on my notes suspend on the 1131 The 1149 you can vote you can do it as is you just did but 1131 Okay, well then I withdraw and I first asked that we suspend the rules on 1131 Let's still pull 1149 forward second We have a motion in a second to suspend the rules on 1131 Is there any discussion or anybody opposed to suspension of the rules? Anybody like any explanations? Alderman born. I don't have any objection to the to the suspension, but I do want to ask a question regarding the IT services, okay There's nobody opposed to suspending the rules the rules are suspended Alderman Hammond Thank you. I'm again I move the report a committee be accepted and adopted for 1149 the two resolutions be put upon their passage second We have a motion in a second to put upon its passage 11 to accept and adopt 1149 put the Resolution upon its passage and to put 1131's resolution upon its passage under discussion Thank you, mayor. I'm gonna ask kind of a dumb question even though I voted for 1149 in finance I believe that's one we voted on and I guess my question is is If our IT department can be going over to Kohler It can be going over to Plymouth to help them with IT services Does that mean that they don't have enough work to do here in Shabuigan? And are we overstaffed in that department if we can be having IT people running all over Shabuigan County to help other Cities with their IT services I guess, you know that might be that might be a question at budget time When we're looking at various departments, I guess our IT department and should be concerned about taking care of the IT issues in the city and Here we're going to Kohler and we're going to be going to Plymouth I believe these are items related to the emergency response system. Are they not and And the spillman spillman and spillman which are City County services They're instituting spillman over there and I believe that's why it is I don't think it has anything to do with their other IT services. Am I correct? Wasn't my understanding in finance that they're doing they're going to be helping out the village of Kohler with any IT issues And they're going to be we're going to be paid 2,150 dollars for that and for Plymouth we're going to be paid 4198 dollars, so it may have something to do with spillman But it was my understanding in finance and I did vote for it, but I'm just asking the question Apparently they have enough time on their hands to be going to other communities And I'm asking the question if we under are we understaffed in IT that they have the time to do that I'm sure we're not overstaffed in IT. I'm sure there's a reason and they would probably be cheap Or for them to hire outside rather than imply the city Alderman Hammond. Do you have any answers? The the primary purpose of this is to support the police department of both of those municipalities There may be opera. There may be times where they've asked or requested to do Some other types of tasks, but the primary focus is to support the police department of both Kohler and Plymouth My understanding is Chiefs, do you concur with that? Are you familiar with this? No Neither is anybody else at the moment president Rinflesch In my opinion, we've made great strides in our IT department with Dave Augustine I believe we've probably got a much better IT department right now than our our counterparts in government No offense to the other municipalities or county Alderman Hammond, did you have anything else? No, I think the president Rinflesch, please Just reading the recitals within the agreements I Think the first whereas cause pretty much spells it out. We're looking for Is that support services for the hardware and software for the police department? Which is connected to the city of Sheboygan's network and computer systems? Well, that tells me if if villager coal or villager city of Plymouth are operating something that's connected We probably have a very big interest in making sure that they're operating correctly Including antivirus and other needs as well so for me Having IT departments, you know make sure that our own internal system is operating correctly because the police departments are linked to our system Makes sense in addition to that. We are actually Small amount we are billing them and getting revenue for the services that we put in which in my mind is Services that we're putting into protect our own system make sure it's operating correctly and efficiently So I think it's a win-win for both and if I recall through conversation We've been providing those services in the past without getting paid for it Supporting me supporting these these networks Steve We entered into a similar agreement. I'd say 10 or 12 years ago that was based on a per hour charge and that agreement was not Kept up to date. So it was a very low amount and with the change in IT the change of personnel I don't believe as mayor has indicated. I don't believe that IT was even charging them When the Spillman project came about They looked at it and this is based on a percentage allocation and It really updates Quite an old agreement that the has been in place To provide for a percentage basis, so it'll be more up to date and IT department will be billing. I think the IT has been providing these services for several years without Thank You Steve any further discussion on this issue take them We can't take them together. We have two simple votes. We take them together. We'll take them both together Roll call, please Carlson. Hi, Decker. Hi Haman. Hi Hammond. Hi. Hi to men. Hi. Coth. Hi. Kittleson. Hi. Maddochek. Hi Rindflash. Hi. Racelor. Hi. Samson. Hi, Van Akron. Hi, Vanderwheel. Hi, Versi. Hi Belt. Hi and Boren. Hi 16 eyes Motion carries 1132 by Alderman Hammond authorizing retaining outside legal counsel to represent the city in the matter of American family mutual insurance company Against the city and authorizing payment for said services Alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Mayor once again I asked that the rule be suspended for this document Second motion the second to suspend the rules under discussion on the suspension Again, we're all obtaining outside legal counsel for a proceeding that is underway So time is somewhat of the essence. Is anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? Rules are suspended. Please continue. Thank you. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion to second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please Haman. Hi Hammond. Hi DeMond. Hi cop. Hi Kittleson. Hi, Maddochek. Hi, Rindflash. Hi, Racelor. Hi, Samson. I'm Stain Ben Akron. Hi, Vanderwheel. Hi, Versi. Hi Belt. Hi Boren. Hi and Carlson. Hi 15 eyes one extension motion carries 1133 by Alderperson Vanderwheel authorizing the appropriate city officials to submit a records retention Slash Disposition schedule to the state public records and forms a board for approval Alderperson Vanderwheel. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I make a motion to suspend the rules second a motion in a second to suspend the rules under discussion on suspension of the rules Any explanation needed anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? I see no lights rules are suspended. Please continue. I make a motion to Resolution upon its passage second motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion There is no discussion roll call, please Haman. Hi Hammond. Hi DeMond. Hi cop. Hi Kittleson. Hi, Maddochek. Hi, Rindflash. Hi, Racelor. Hi Samson. Hi, Ben Akron. Hi, Vanderwheel. Hi, Versi. Hi, Belt. Hi, Boren. Hi Carlson. Hi. And Decker. Hi. 16 ayes Motion carries 1134 lies over 1135 will be referred to finance and PPNS reports of committee 6 1136 by finance recommending filing various documents Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mary move the RCB accepting and adopting second motion a second to accept and adopt under discussion There's no discussion all in favor say aye opposed motion carries 1137 by law and licensing recommending granting various licenses all to person Vanderwheel I make a motion that the RCB accepted and adopted second We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There is no discussion all in favor say aye Opposed motion carries 1138 by finance recommending filing documents submitting the addendum to the intergovernmental Cooperative agreement for the allocation of costs for ongoing Spillman CAD RMS maintenance and approving the addendum Alderman Hammond Thank You mr. Mayor. I move the RCB accepted and adopted Second motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There's no discussion all in favor say aye Opposed one abstention from Alderman van Akron opposed motion carries 1139 by public protection and safety recommending filing a document submitting the addendum to the intergovernmental Cooperative agreement for the allocation of costs for ongoing Spillman CAD RMS maintenance and approving the addendum Person Kittleson. Thank You. Mayor. I'd ask that the RCB accepted and adopted Second we have a motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There is no discussion all in favor state aye Opposed motion carries 1140 by public protection and safety recommending filing various occupants Alderman Kittleson. Thank You mayor I'd ask that the arrow is all be accepted and adopted Motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There's no discussion all in favor say aye opposed motion carries 1141 by public works recommending filing documents submitting a communication from the Sheboygan Great Lakes Sports Fisherman's Club stating their concerns over the emergency ladders that are no longer accessible in the harbor as the water level has dropped and anybody that was down for the Dragonboat races would know Public works Alderman Heidemann. Thank You mayor I move that the RC accept be accepted and adopted second motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion If there is Alderman Hammond. Oh I just had somebody Alderman van Akron Thank You mayor I guess if I can just get some explanations as to I did believe I read that some of the ladders are still accessible and Also, if there's any plan going forward with correcting this problem with the water level. I mean, I guess I don't expect it to Rise anytime soon. I guess I would like to know if there's any plan going forward to Correct these ladders to extend them or to do something with this. Alderman Heidemann, please We did discuss that public works at this time There wasn't any money in their budget to be able to do this and we also felt that there were adequate safety Measures already done on the docks Gallerman Heidemann Alderman van Akron answer your question. I Guess if we can ask One of the members from public works just to discuss My question is is there are there currently ladders that do reach and just some of them don't reach all the way down the water? Or is all of the ladders Basically obsolete at this point Bill Direct answer is is most of the ladders are a little High to reach because they were based on water levels. Those ladders were put in when the Harbor was an industrial harbor. It had sheer steel walls and as common when you build those steel walls You build some side bracing across so if somebody falls off a ship, etc. A lot a lot different now We've got a lot of wood piers that if you fell off you could swim to We are a charter fishing area and a personal fishing area which you were on your way to the lake Which I'm not sure where the ladders are when you so use So it's totally different situation when the ladders were created and and the biggest one is several ladders you just stand up if you Were considered, you know how you would get out of that situation because one side of the river You can really stand up at You might not be able to reach the ladder, but you would not be in danger of drowning So you put those all together and it was it was kind of like this is a very low priority If I can expound on that just a little bit. There are some ladders that do reach all the way down However, a lot of them don't this came about I think I think this issue probably came about the Great the Lakeshore weekend for kids for some reason across the river from the Dragon Boat races somebody either Decided or involuntarily decided to take a swim And was hanging on the ladder, but couldn't pull himself up to actually get on the ladder and the team from plenco in their Bright black dragon boat went and saved them So it was quite the sight but You know, there's the answer is I don't think there's any plans to change anything right now Regarding standing up by the end of next summer. You won't be able to stand up anymore. Hopefully That's the plan by by next fall to have all of that dredged by the Corps of engineers where we'll have 16 feet of water it won't be that deep on the edges, but it will be deeper Hopefully then people standing up out there So might be an issue that needs to be looked at in the future or pray for rain one or the other Okay We have a motion to accept and adopt any further discussion There is none all in favor say aye. All right opposed motion carries We have one no from Alderman Van Akron Okay, reports of committees 711 42 by law and licensing recommending approval of the proposed city of Sheboygan records retention Disposition schedule all the person van der weel. Thank you move that the RC be accepted and adopted second Motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion If there is none all in favor say aye. I post motion carries 1143 By law and licensing. You might as well just stand up for a while all the person 1143 by law and licensing recommending denying beverage operators license number 8390 based upon her failure to accurately reveal all relevant convictions on the application her record of violations Related to the licensed activity and her failure to cooperate with the committee all the person van der weel Move the RC be accepted and adopted second We have a motion and a second to accept and adopt under discussion is Ashley Widmeyer here She's not here. Please continue. We invited her to appear before a committee two different times And she didn't appear or contact us either those times Very good Under discussion is there any discussion? There is no discussion roll call, please I Kittleson I Maddachuk, I Rindflash. Hi Racler. Hi, Samson. Hi, Van Akron. Hi van der weel. Hi, Versi. Hi belt I Boran hi Carlson. Hi, Decker. Hi Common hi Hammond. Hi 16 eyes motion carries 1144 by law and licensing Recommending denying beverage operators license number 9204 based upon a record of violations related to the licensed activity Including additional violation information provided by police at the law and licensing meeting Alderperson van der weel Move at the RC be accepted and adopted second Motion to second to accept and adopt is Linnea Sherman here She's not here your honor. Please continue based on information from the police department that Incidences that occurred this year. They recommended that we deny the license very good Any further discussion? There is no roll call, please Kittleson. Hi Maddachuk. Hi Rindflash. Hi Racler. Hi Samson. Hi Van Akron. Hi van der weel. Hi Versi. Hi belt I boran. Hi Carlson. Hi Decker. Hi common. Hi Hammond. Hi Hi hi 16 eyes motion carries 1145 by law and licensing recommending granting various licenses Alderperson van der weel I move that the RC be accepted and adopted second the motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion There's no discussion roll call, please. We can do an all eyes on them. Oh all in favor say aye opposed motion carries 1146 by public works recommending filing various documents regarding the 2011 bituminous resurfacing program also known as asphalt and re-bidding the project next year Alderperson Alderman RC be accepted adopted second Motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion. Okay, we did discuss this at public works We thought some of the bids came in quite high, so we're going to look at doing it again next year We have more money. Hopefully Good luck Thank you Alderman Heidemann any further discussion If there is no further discussion all in favor say aye opposed motion carries 1147 by law and licensing recommending granting various licenses once again Alderperson van der weel Move that the RC be accepted and adopted second We have a motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion If there is no discussion all in favor say aye One abstention Alderman born abstained Alderman versey abstained Opposed motion carries Born you didn't abstain did you know I didn't know I'm in first. Thank you. I know it's coming from that direction, so Okay, 1148 by law and licensing recommending denying pawn brokers license application number 2832 at pawn and loan based upon concerns regarding issues of public safety and protection and the criminal background of chrisandra gills business partners person van der weel Move the RC be accepted and adopted second Motion in a second to accept and adopt under discussion is chrisandra gill here She's not here But we this was sent back to our committee and this time Chief demigalski was present and he also had concerns about the business partners Lengthy record so again we voted to deny Thank you Alderperson van der weel Alderperson kittleson. Thank you mayor. I guess I did want an explanation I know the person appeared here for that license and it was sent back so The chief was there at your committee meeting and and address the concerns and and it was decided What that you would not give him the license based on the? The concerns regarding Okay, I guess I I just wondered what you know a little bit more about what those concerns were Thank You mayor Thank You chief would you like to speak on that I guess the important thing that I'd like to point out is that the person that appeared wasn't the licensee The licensee has not appeared at at your council meeting Requesting that they even be heard on the matter. That's my concern is that somebody is operating behind the scenes in the business Rather than the licensee Thank You chief any further discussion Alderman Samson. Thank You mr. Mayor. I'm sorry. Did she show up to your meetings to the she was the one applying for it, but then She wasn't the one that was actually going to be running The business he was gonna hold the license sold in the license, okay, but she was showing up at your meeting He did show up at the meeting. Thank you Thank You Alderman Samson any further discussion There's no further discussion roll call, please kittleson. I Maddachek Rinfelsch I raceler I Samson. Hi Ben Akram. Hi Vander wheel. Hi Versi. Hi belt. All right, Warren. Hi Carlson. Hi Decker Common hi, Hammond. All right, right a man. Hi and cop. Hi 16 eyes motion carries 10 20 11 49 reporter for me He is already Disposed of matters laid over 11 10 25 RO number 141 11 12 by the city plan commission amending the city of Sheboygan official zoning map of the Sheboygan zoning ordinance to establish the use district classification of recently annex property Located west of Taylor Drive and north of Indiana Avenue Alderman Samson. Thank You mr. Mayor I would like to move that the ordinance be put upon its passage and the RO be accepted placed on file Second Samson. Could you take the next one also? absolutely Have to say it again the ordinance be put upon its passage in the RO be a RO 142 11 12 is dealing with We need okay, can I just jump in here? Yes, we need to file both of these So it's just a motion to file both of the documents, right? Yeah, these are Okay, thanks So we have a motion to file 10 25 and 26. There's been a small change of plans on those I believe under discussion You have a motion to file Alderman Hammond. Thank you. What were the change of plans? Was there a second just filed second. Thank you. I Believe 10 25 and 6 is that regarding sugar with the annexation and the Voters and thank you if you understand that got it. So This is all dealing with that. There will be others coming forward. That'll be revised a bit Any further discussion? If there is none to 10 25 and 26 all in favor of filing say aye opposed motion carries 1066 resolution number 59 11 12 by Alderpersons racelor Kittleson Decker and Samson lifting the hiring freeze in order to hire a manager of human resources in the human resources department Alderman racelor Thank You mr. Mayor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage second Motion in the second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion. We have Alderman boron Thank you mayor The hiring of a manager of human resources is is this mean we're gonna go out and advertise for the position or is Mr.. Rice going to continue in the position Mr. Rice is awake or not yet, but The idea we are going to be advertising for this position Mr. Rice was brought on as a contractor originally for six months. He's been hanging around for a couple years now He's agreed. It's in everybody's best interest that we do hire somebody and that Tom works his way out of this job And I just follow up please thank you And then Being that this is going to be a manager position rather than the department head is the manager subject to the residency rule Good question Tom Answer is yes. Thank you Any further discussion? No further discussion roll call, please matter check Rindflash racelor. Hi Samson. Hi then Akron. Hi Vander wheel. Hi versi. Hi belt. Hi Orin hi Carlson. Hi Decker. Hi homin. Hi And then I item in hi cut I and kiddleson. Hi 16 eyes motion carries 1061 general ordinance number 2211 12 by Alderpersons racelor kiddleson Decker and Samson amending the municipal code so as to delete the current director of human resources and labor relations and create the job description of Manager of human resources in the human resources department for the city of Sheboygan Alderman racelor. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage second motion a second to put the ordinance upon its passage under discussion Please no discussion roll call, please Rindflash. Hi racelor. Hi Samson. Hi Van Akron. Hi Vander wheel. Hi versi. Hi belt. Hi Warren. Hi Carlson. Hi Decker. Hi homin. Hi Hammond Hi item in hi cut. Hi kiddleson. Hi and manager 16 eyes motion carries other matters authorized by law 1150 an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from the students of Huesburg Christian school Requesting the honor of the council members presence at their honor assembly of political representatives on September 26th at 2 p.m president Rindflash Thank you, your honor First like to thank the Huesburg Christian school for the invitation And second of all I like to make a motion to file Motion in a second to accept and file under discussion There's no discussion all in favor say aye. Aye opposed Motion carries 1151 referred to the committee of the whole 1152 referred to ppns 1153 an arrow by the city clerk submitting communication from manual Lutheran church stating that they will be gathering in D. Lynn Park on September 11th at 1 30 p.m For remembrance and recognizing the military the police and fire departments as well as EMS Personnel president Rindflash Thank you, your honor Like to make a motion to accept and file second We have a motion and a second to accept and file under discussion There is no discussion All in favor say aye opposed motion carries 1154 will be referred to finance 1155 a resolution by alderman Hammond authorizing the issuance and sale of $670,000 of general obligation promissory notes series 2011 a alderman Hammond. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I asked for a suspension of the rules Second we have a motion and a second to suspend the rules under discussion on the suspension Under under the this issue is going to actually to issue So we need to suspend the rules to approve the document Anybody opposed to the rules being suspended? Rules are suspended. Please continue. Thank you very much, mr. Mayor. I move the resolution be put upon its passage So I can have a motion in a second to put the resolution upon its passage under discussion Alderman Hammond Thank you, mr. Mayor as many might recall we talked about going to the state trust fund to pull dollars out for Part of our capital improvements budget in this case these dollars are going to be used towards the funding of the restroom Facilities the various different parks We're able to get a lower cost of capital the state trust fund as you can see the loan rate would have been about three Three and a quarter all in including administrative costs. We're in at 2.435 I believe it's gonna be saving somewhere around 20 grand or so so again director Modio was able to Find us a better deal on the Funds so we have a lower cost of capital So that's the reason you see what you have and we won't be going to the state trust fund for those dollars Thank You Alderman Hammond any further discussion There is no further discussion roll call, please Maddochek Rinflash Ray Slur right Samson. Hi, Van Akron. Hi Vander wheel. Hi Percy. Hi belt hi Boran. Hi Carlson. Hi Decker. Hi Haman. Hi Hammond. Hi item in hi top. Hi and kiddleson. Hi 16 Motion carries 11 56 lies over 11 57 referred 11 58 a resolution by Alderman Hammond and Raceler I believe we already we already took 11 58 That's done 11 59 is done 60 61 2 3 4 all of them are done other other matters authorized by a law attorney McLean 1165 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30 2012 and June 30 2013 that will be referred to law and licensing 1166 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting communication from Dale Berenger Requesting a waiver from the sex offender residency restrictions in order to live at 25 17 Calumet Boulevard And that will be referred to public protection and safety Motion the second to adjourn all in favor say aye. Aye. Most motion carries