 He's an ex-British soldier and six years ago during the final minutes, and I mean the final minutes of the Falklands war He was shot on the head by a sniper. I got out of them by head but he had seven six two During the battle I thought to myself nothing will ever matter anymore. Nothing will ever affect me anymore The white cross grenade fell out And that got translated by the likes of the media into some sort of true grip Firing with both hands, which was pretty much bollocks. I remember the old boys saying that all the Scots girls when came back from You know what up were Normandy with their weapons So at the time in the battle, I run out of ammunition I've got pissed off with trying to get magazine empty magazines back into Bloody 58 pattern webbing which was now all wet and swollen I'd already taken the decision to throw my mags when they were empty And I took to pick you up Argentina in FNs The trouble with that is because you never know what's in it when you bring it up Could be completely empty So, but I wasn't gonna throw away my SLR I then had the misfortune of Stupidly thinking I could change the mag on an FN because it looks so like an SLR But it has a different magazine clip When people are shooting at you things are going bang. You don't stop and start examining the weapon you're holding So that's how I ended up with the two And that got translated by the likes of the media into some sort of true grip Firing with both hands, which was pretty much bollocks. I Like myself on a ridge with my arms in the air shouting isn't this fun. That's bollocks as well I'm glad we cleared that up right from the start Yes, it's it's funny my my friend How he was in four five commando in the Falklands And he said to me Chris all this bollocks about you know safety catch I was essay 80 so it was change lever off magazine check it. It's in the Falklands That was all out the window. He said you fight your fucking weapon as fast as you could get them rounds off Get that magazine throw it as far away as you can reaching your combat jacket get another fucker on Cocky and and yeah, he said when he got back to four five They're the first thing on their program was weapons drill and he said all the labs were just staring at the floor and the the the PW the weapons instructors like Come on lads show a bit of interest like now. It's all bollocks I mean and you know as you said it was I had a small I got hold of a Small and they're the best because with your belt on you just shove it down the front of your jacket And all this idea of nicely in and out of pouches goes out the window Everything is just inside your smock You look like you're pregnant When they cut my kit off when I got injured Much to my amusement the white phosphor grenade fell out I had completely forgotten about the preparation of grenades Before the battle So the first time I tried to pull a pin I really couldn't do it had to crawl back and get another guy to help me pull the pin out because I hadn't prepped it That was my backup And um The one bit of the film I bet they did get right Was your oppo having to shake you because you were still Was it with some girl you'd met downtown or your girlfriend? I was late for the Together at Chelsea barracks and leave to go down to the qe2 um And eventually my orderly my radio operator was spotted with two slrs Which rather gave away the fact that I wasn't there yet I did get given a shit load of extra picket gg's as a young officer as punishment I got out of them by head buddy at seven six two It's um I mean you've had a lot of stuff to deal with Robert, I mean not least of which having a major BBC production brought out about your experience was Was that I mean that Just from my experience of the media and it can really turn on you That must have been Just an issue in itself to deal with I mean it does turn on you and to some degree and I'm sure it's a case for you Because you've got to be an idiot not to realize that you're putting your head above the parapet And the media will do this, you know papers will spend five days Saying what a great guy you are and then they'll do their next two days saying what a complete dickhead you are um And you know you just buy into that my point of view was a few My personal one selfishly was that I was trying to create a new career for myself I continued to film and television via theater Ironically in those days I was still able to meet a lot of the boys who've been members of ENSA the second world war services entertainment system So I got to work with people believably enough like spike mulligan Who suffered terribly? I'm also lots of people I met derrick nimo Lord white ricks of white ball, you know, they're all ex second world war guys who serve My agent was a guy called richard stone who had an emcee from the second world war um So I was doing it to pursue a future life for myself I was also doing it because I think it's important that These things are talked about that events in history are remembered. Um, I was pissed off at the time that Um The standard of post care for veterans was so appalled calling Uh, I was also pretty bemused by the concept that a government could fuck up so badly That we'd end up in a war and then because we an apolitical force that defends the country wins that war They get reelected. I couldn't quite work that one out Um, so those are the things I was doing and it was of no surprise to me That that opened the gates to a few bits of criticism. You'll always get it It's water of a duct back to me. I really don't give a shit the people who often make those christians weren't there Um, I understand the boys that maybe had a few christians that were there, you know, it wasn't a war about me Um, it wasn't a war about any individual or any individual group I also speak up now because Um, the scots guards did incredibly well to go from public duties out there and take on their fifth marines No one's taking anything away from our brothers in the parachute rig or our marine friends Um, they did an amazing job And they carried the fitness that allowed them to do that yonk as they call it. Um Without a doubt Praiseworthy beyond belief But you know, the scots guards did an extraordinary job to go from public duties To being on on the front line in a place that far away And eventually up and against their fifth fifth marines who were well, um trained Well dug in uh, well armed and unequipped in a way that the british army really wasn't them Look at the equipment we took down there the joke Um, but that's what we brits are good at landing on the wrong side of the island with shit equipment And getting on and doing the job that needs to be done Yes, and uh incredibly short notice wasn't it? Sure was Yeah But it's rushed away, you know what it It's the 40th anniversary now. Is this a difficult time for you or do you have to compartmentalize this in some way? Every year on the anniversary, which is quite difficult. I had a bad year a few years ago a number of my boys uh died, you know through alcohol abuse and And not being able to cope in many ways afterwards Plus, you know 40 years on even if you were the very youngest maybe down there There were a couple of naval ratings who were maybe 17 They're now 57 You know the numbers will not be retained for a long so 40 40th anniversary of any event like that is always going to be a big one I mean we're all mortal, you know It's amazing that i'm still here um So to that end it's a big one every year. It's always dredges up a bit that is quite hard um But you know, I feel slightly juicy about For the guys, you know, there are a lot of guys who would not want to do what i'm doing right now Sit in front of the screen talking to you. Um, there are a lot of guys who suffer terribly and families That's the big thing for me Our association is called the tumble down veterans and families association It's the families that have suffered for our eagerness to soldier And we did he we were eagerness soldier, you know yourself You you get the opportunity to go and do what you've trained for you want to go and do it Um, we rush to get joint to join in the families Aren't quite so happy. I now have a son serving scots guards And with all the shit that's going on in europe and ukraine You know, my wife sits there and goes. Oh my god. What happened to this escalates and he goes to the front line I know that as a 27 year old He's partially aware of that And not stupid about that. But as a soldier, that's what you want to do Go and soldier Yes, my um best mate growing up his dad was the Um sergeant major in lima company in the folklans and Every night You won't remember this because you were down there, but for us back here After the news they used to put There they had to put put the news of the dead And my mate had to watch that It's like 10 years old, you know to see if his dad had died that day He used to just take himself up in the bath and run himself up and just cry in the bath because he had You know, he's 10 years old. He's got no one to No one to no one to share this with And to think there's people running off to volunteer in ukraine now Leaving free kids behind and they're laughing about it as though it's Well, a lot of walkers going out there Um, you know guys all my time serving, you know, a lot of them have done a couple of weeks and not knowing anything Uh, you know men will always do this kind of shit What the country needs to understand is This is not news There's one year since the second world war and I think it's many 69 when a british Uh, british servicemen hasn't died Jesus, I'm sort of complex one year We've lost people every year. We've done malay. We've done born here. We've done mal mal. We've done northern island We've done kosovo. We've done, you know, rwanda. We've done Sierra Leone We've done everything And it goes on and it's important that a country is educated in geo politics And educated in what it takes to try and form a better world And maybe had they been better educated, they wouldn't have been so completely stupid about things like british I'm not saying our Our place and our system in europe are the right. I'm just saying that the world has to work together We know it does. We know that's for environmental reasons We know it has to be for geo politics. We know we have to share this planet with too many of us So to my mind a lot of it is about failing to educate People sit there and say oh well My grand dad was in the second world war or my grand dad was in the first world war and they never spoke about Of course, they didn't speak about it. Everyone was involved Why would he talk to the guy next to you in front of the family? When you know, he knew you know, he knew what it was about Where all the civilians had had known what was going on. They'd all lost people. They all have people out there You didn't need to sit to talk about it. And when you did talk about it, you talked about it to a friend who understood it I often found that You know The fathers of girlfriends after the falcons and the dad had been involved in the second world war And he would talk to me And the family would say after oh dad never talked about the war cut. Believe me. He was talking to you about it Of course, he talked to me about it. I had a degree of understanding So I saw it partially as worthy of discussion and portrayal Um, I also know what people are like and if they sit down and can watch a movie Maybe it's easier to do that than it is to sit down and watch a serious hard as informative documentary So that was my aim Uh, the dilemma of course is that movies are drama. They're never accurate. You've only got 90 minutes Um, you've got to try and do stuff, but that was the risk I took that is what I tried to do and hopefully it um Just seeped in a bit Was um, it was Colin Firth wasn't it that played you Yeah, were you upset that he wasn't handsome enough? Absolutely, but um, you know, I've helped him as best I can with his career And I hope he's very happy. He's a good lad. We've got to know each other quite well um You know these actors take it all very seriously and good for them. That's their job You know, here we are all people are suffering PTSD because they watched Will Smith slap whatever his name is well get over it really Go out go out to Ukraine and tell me you're shocked by watching a guy slaps his wife You're the slappers. This guy's commenting on his wife. It's a joke Robert, what was it like for you and your men when? um The Welsh guards took that terrible hit Well, I mean, I think as a soldier I mean you're a marine so you understand it better But as a soldier the concept of sitting in some big metal box That gets hit and goes dark and fills your smoke and starts melting around you It's just one of the worst things ever. I mean, I I wouldn't even think me like to be a tanky My aim is always that I can dig a hole as fast as possible with my fingernails And get my face in it. Um, so it was horrific Uh, and in the minute that sort of thing happens The whole question as to why they were still on board Why they hadn't been got off and put on the ground as fast as possible Why it was sitting there in daylight comes up But you know, that's what war is It you know, if it all ran smoothly Then it would all be done by Americans, you know, which second wave had the coat machine on You know, that isn't the way war happens We lost all our Heavy lift aircraft on the Atlantic conveyor. We lost a lot of our close air Patrol cover on the Atlantic conveyor. We lost our ambulance equipment on the Atlantic conveyor You know What do you say had the Argentinians invaded two months later The winter would have already closed in when we got down there. We would have frozen on the mountain tops Had the Argentinians waited a couple of months later. I think that the British government will look at, uh Getting rid of one of the aircraft carriers. You can't get a war with one aircraft carrier if that gets somewhere to your boys land This is just what happens. It's the way it goes. We've had people out training Ukrainians I've known of them out there doing it for the last year and a half We've known this sort of thing is ticking forwards and moving forward slowly um so You know, that's just the way life is What was it like you were a young lieutenant so second lieutenant Yeah Does that were you troop commander or you two I see of the troop I cut I I'm so long ago for me I was uh, you know as far as I was concerned. I was quite fortunate. I joined very young I I signed up as a potential officer with my o-levels at 16 and a half So I was one of the few paternal commanders That was not even still on my first troop star between sergeant You know, you know what it's like. You're both being sergeant for goodness sake. Listen to the guy He's got so much more experience than you when you start moving on to your second and third Sergeant or troop sergeant You're beginning to have an influence of your own I was already Served and fell fast. I've been in the fourth row for a six and a half months emergency tour I was a jungle warfare instructor in Brunei um so I saw myself No matter how young and how babyish as being one of the more experienced platoon commanders Uh in those days there was an effort on behalf of the recruiting people to try and get in Uh university officers and things like that my older brother joined uh and had cambridge paid for Um, so he was one of these university wallets as far as I was concerned I've gone in through brigade squad At the very bottom level sort of not quite 17 And you know had gone up slowly um, but solidly Served in belfast served in kenya Served in brunei And so when the volklins came along I was bugging if I was going to be standing in the tower of london or outstore or inside the changes palace I wanted to be there in green Not in red a very proud to be a guardsman Uh, we have some excellent soldiers No doubt about it. Um It was important after the terrible of cancers with the world's guards Uh, and the obvious questions that they were always going to be about Was a guards regiment that have been doing public duties able to go straight into combat And I think had we not performed the way we did Then in this current financial climate or certainly one that's been around for a while You might have found the household division turned into a ceremonial unit Which is not what we want to be we are we do ceremony and we do it bloody well, but with soldiers Yes Best um in my opinion the best regiment in the britshami are always the one with dual purpose You know marines are soldiers and they're marines parents are soldiers and they jump out of airplanes You know riflemen are soldiers and they're riflemen Guardsmen are soldiers and they're guardsmen. This is what you need to be you need to keep the boys busy So when you were lined out at the bottom of that mountain Have you already dealt with it in your mind that you're probably going to lose people? Your your your boys, I mean Yeah, I mean you you know And we had done an anniversary attack um it tends to Raise your determination At that point rather than break you is my experience um I was going to be more breaking by waiting around in the cold You know The approach from the start line was you know, seriously You know you're asking through this because they have better night vision equipment than we did We're going a long way in a silent approach And with no Contact happening at that point as we approach which is the aim um My worry was they weren't going to be there You know And why when I'm hold back waiting For the companies in advance of us to do their job Even when the fighting starts I'm there thinking shit. I'm gonna die of cold Waiting for these guys up front who are having all the fun Now that that sort of turns around when you start having the fun And the question is Is it always fun? Well, no, but it goes into that kind of You know, I won't just use the cliches about red mist But you know it does And my job as a tune commander is to Provide the momentum to leave from the front Um And you suddenly have an awareness. I'm not saying first world war because bloody hell. How do you compare to that? But You know, you've got your supporting fire coming Let's say from your left over to your right flanking attack So supporting fires coming from your left Supporting fires coming from your guys behind you And enemy fires coming from you in front You know, this is not the spot to be in it is the required spot for a tune commander And when I eventually was able to look around me on uh, the Uganda the hospital ship Uganda You know being the belligerent shit. I am I said, where are all the other two commanders? Why isn't everybody got up to now we lost between commanders and a lot got injured So it was a rash and stupid comment on mine But that was how I felt, you know, if you're going to get shot The likelihood is the guy leading With people shooting from behind him and in front of him and to his left and to his right Is one of the guys that's going to get hit, but that's our job You can't have it all you can't wear it up here and take the salute And then not go and do what your duty is With it, were there a lot a lot of land mines in front of you? If there were we weren't checking them out. You're taking a chance as the Biversary attack Had gone in They've basically Taken a spot to take a bearing from They assess that that was an entertaining position off in that bearing and they judge the distance That night they advanced from that spot on that bearing Stopped Used our useless iws is to look around couldn't see anything couldn't hear anything to advance again Did that two or three times before they heard snoring Look down and found themselves surrounded by trenches um A message came out of one of their Clansmen radios. It was very loud. I gather because I think it came from one of the Light tanks that was in the very background trying to get supporting fire ready to get supporting fire That of course woke all the argentinians in the trench in front of them Um a firefight commenced in which We certainly had two killed um And a lot of close calls and a lot of injuries Um and to give you an idea that you know what it's like One of the guys who's been shot fell on the ground And his mucka picked him up threw him over his shoulder and as they broke contact and ran out The guy carrying the injured guys when stood on a mine They both went up in the air They both landed The guy who'd been shot then picked up the guy who just stood on the mine and lost his leg And put him on his shoulder and they ran out together What do you say? You don't there's no words are there bloody how? It's all um suddenly got a bit a bit real for you all Exactly and you know that was the case For all of our people down there What the parents suddenly found themselves dealing with at goose green What they did on long done what the marines did um You know listen We as a country and as a nation And I say country broadly because i'm scott some proud of it. Um, we're bloody good at this football We are good at this and So how it was how was it for you when you started to take casualties? Well, as I said, I think the point was that um Really casualties at that point up your dedication your your keenness to contact and pay back um You know, it's afterwards in the cold life of dave with the realities There that it's awful. I mean, it's awful at the time but At the time You just want to avenge what's going on And it increase your determination. So that's that is what it was like for me uh I think afterwards It comes back, you know, it's those also, you know I was lucky. I went back to a military hospital In the days when we had military proper military hospitals And if you can remain in that family fold, no matter how broad you fall in the family It's easier When you end up those years later on without your mates without your muckers Without the family without the career without the structure That's when the devil comes out and dances with you Did you have problems with the booze? I've got no problem with booze as long as I can afford it Yes, good answer Disagree and I've just had to check in with a new doctor And you know, they do that how many units is how many and I said I'm an alcoholic not a fucking accountant But yeah, I think, you know, the family has suffered um I've just always presumed I wouldn't be around that long and you know You're confusing me with someone who gives a shit Well, nobody thought you were going to get off that hill alive. Did they not really know 762 to the head Not not to be recommended um Very complex the uh medics and the surgeons Uh are and have continued to be staggering people um You know things like the severe cold down there Was no doubt an influencing help to survival The fact that it was a closed head injury. I'm an open head injury meant you've got no Build up a pressure in the skull because the skull's broken but uh What can I say I wouldn't I wouldn't suggest it to anyone No, you're not selling this to us Wow So there's Robert, I mean god Forgive me if you're sick of talking about this, but I mean Literally you you had taken that hill, weren't you you taking that Mountain this was just a uh Was it one last trench that hadn't hadn't been cleared I think it was I think it was withdrawing Argentinian troops so the the best ones had hung on as long as they could um And then they started retreating out themselves There's an argument that they were trying to organize a counter attack um If we'd been stopped on that top of that mountain We would have been in clear sight of any foos and there's in stanley They could have pulled down df on us And and we would have been in big trouble. They've had a lot of tricks in stanley So had they managed to keep them disciplined They could have come back I had tried to do a reorg because that's what you're taught to do And then I found that I didn't really have anyone to do the reorg with Um for obvious reasons Um, I also knew from my intelligence report But there was an administrative cave at the end of tumbledown of some sort And I thought there's nothing I'd like to do more than get my hands on a frank cook That's what I was after but uh In the attempt to reorg We came under fire I think they were trying to break contact to it to extract themselves Or they were preparing to do a counter attack And I realized at that point I had to Get the momentum going again And get going up that mountain. So I did so with a couple of guys Uh, those features Are very difficult. Um If they've got the high ground it's very easy to lob grenades down on people If you're at the bottom And you throw a grenade up there's a very good chance it'll bounce back down at you. Um You know, you can be under our cherry fire up on those mountains And you know, a certain number may hit the peat and disappear into it With a big rock But if it hits a rock then it goes off properly. So there's a lot of variation of what's going on Um, and it was purely trying to clear the end of that mountain Keep the momentum going make sure that they really did Sold off and not regroup to counter attack But I was doing with the last couple of guys Um and ran past the guy whether they were snipers or not is irrelevant. I don't And you know the contact of a sniper suggests he'd been lying there very It you know, it's a very well-trained argentinian marine Who's extracting himself off a position that he thinks that they've now lost And either looking at the potential to counter attack or he's trying to keep up perceived often So they're stopping and they're firing at us as we're trying to keep the momentum going and push them off um Ultimately The guy that shot me Stop firing in my direction sat down and faced Away in other words faced the root the way I was running And let me run past him And then he shot me from behind Have you ever met the champ? That ain't happening No, do you know who who it is? Um, I don't know. I mean I'm in touch with some of these and I've had the most extraordinary communications with some of the more intelligent argentinians who've been very honorable about our treatment of them as soldiers our behavior their behavior um, I wouldn't go back there Although it's a lovely place. I'm sure because you just don't know what knob is going to come out and go apeshit and try and do you Or try and do something or charge you with war crimes or something chronic Um, I don't know the guy. I don't believe you got him Yeah, they still take it all so seriously don't they Well, you know, they're driven by Stupid, you know, political You know, if we think we've got tickets for politicians, which we certainly have they've got bigger ones And uh, it's extraordinary that people are Diverse you from their true domestic problems by some historical concept But these islands are theirs and maybe those islands are theirs But that's not the way to do it and the people living on those islands Who cares whether they're british argentina, whatever if they Democratically want to be running the following way let them be running the following way But you really want to encourage your chance of Of putting something like a name to those places then, you know Send some fresh milk send some up to date newspapers and maybe 150 hookahs from Buenos Aires would help that cause as well, you know It's probably a cliche question, but it's probably no more time than the 40th anniversary that makes it appropriate. Um, but Good Did that should do the right thing or is that just so open to interpretation I think without a show as a war prime minister, she did the right thing Once they had landed and done what they did um So not hesitate to crack on and come back with full Vengeance and and determination was without a shut it out the right thing whether They ever should have got to the point where they were able to do that Whether they could have been warned off with a couple of our Naval ships going down to the area in advance of it happening and they would have pulled out of the idea Whether you know sanctions against a guy like galtiary. He was killing his own people And uh, running his own private little domestic war with the missing, um, et cetera You know Whether they should have done something first Without a doubt they should have done Um, but once they stupidly allowed him to do what he did She acted in the correct way I mean all you have to think is sitting in your own home If some guys come in with shotguns And start waving them in your face And try to nick your bits and bobs in your home and front of your family You would expect a team of negotiators to come in And solve this problem and if they felt to negotiate their way out or your way out Then you would expect a team of policemen or whatever To come in and save you We were no different to that impossible to explain isn't it for young people listening now what what it was like as a nation to Sale 8 000 miles to reclaim our territory and gosh, it's just The emotion of it all Suddenly put under Arms control by a group people But yet whether it's theirs or it's ours as a territory Do not walk into people's homes and wave machine guns in their faces And tell them that from now on you speak a different language You drive on a different side of the road bloody, bloody, bloody, bloody, blah If you do that people like you chris and people like me will come and sort you out Yes How how many men did the scots? God's loot losing that battle and and down there in overall nine there um And everyone has a brother sister mother son That's the point, you know when you lose someone on a battlefield one guy goes down When you look at it down the road There are wives children parents brothers sisters uncles um So the one guy Is expanded hugely in reality Um, so yeah, we're not dealing with the numbers that were dealt with in other wars um But it did come out of nowhere didn't it let's be honest Um, and it is more moronic that we can't deal with this kind of stuff Um, there are a few things, you know, I I love soldering So, you know partially when we think of Ukraine and things now I would go back to the old energies that if you want peace prepare for war I've got no issue with war It's not right. It's not good. There's too many people on the planet anyway, so let's have a good dust up How was it come into terms with leaving the regiment? Well, that's the worst bit, isn't it? That's the worst bit You know, you find your place You you do your best um You go from being a fiercely proud young person fit train To being in a wheelchair wetting yourself That does sound pretty much like a Saturday night in the Marines, but that's another story. No, yeah um And you made quite an impact didn't you on that tv show? I don't know It was it gabriel burner of i completely got that right wrong Gabe Yeah Yeah, you that was pretty impressive Media guys, so he had the power to talk to his guests as well You know like one of the originals that I have carpets and jonathan ross is the interviewer um And it was one of the first interviews that I did where I got the chance to sort of talk um, and You know, I was aware that the british government and the establishment were very nervous about me as a young officer speaking out um And that just encouraged me really because I thought why you why you so worried Come and crack me on the back and ask me to say something on your behalf. I'll say it But when you run around being paranoid maybe There's a reason you're paranoid Yeah, my mate used to say if you think you're paranoid it's because you probably should be Yeah, um, you had that audience just in silence. So it was quite um, I don't I've it wasn't a british thing was it really to speak out about the rights and wrongs of war and and you were very you courageously Did and not just courageously did but after Having half your bloody head blown off Well, I saw it as my duty because I think that um, you know I I was a two commander then I still have a duty to my soldiers um And scott's guardsman And people forget What it was like in 82? um You know before any attempt by health for heroes before Henry caught was sorted out at all um And inside running, you know for god's sake charles the first Created the royal hospital With our fantastic guys there You know hundreds of years ago After the Crimea we created the core of um commissioners who gave people jobs running the entrances of big banks of things in london 2020 We have guys sleeping on the fucking streets There is a gg of care by government to look after the soldiers And etc that they put forward and caused to and asked for work for them You know for god's sake it's not that complicated Work out some sort of point system If this person's been a policeman if this person's been a nurse if this person's been a fireman if this person has helped our society Give them some theory points So they go ahead and get the council house when they need one ahead of others The world isn't fair. Let's not try and pretend it is Yeah, I think we all have to get our heads around that one, don't we my my dear old nan always said that Life ain't fair. I think if that's if you make that your starting point Stops us feeling sorry for ourselves and then and then things start to happen Was there a particular kind of turning point for you? Robert because one thing that came clear from the the film was the anger And I'm guessing I mean You you're dealing with trauma that no one else can understand Did did you have an epiphany moment? We thought right hang on. Let's let's take a different direction here I think you know, there was what I called at the time a cynical awakening You know when I came back As I said, I was lucky enough to stay in military health rooms, etc but when you know You discover that the boys who were injured weren't allowed to take part in the victory parade When I discovered that Yes, I could go to the memorial services and pause, but I wasn't allowed away uniform Um, you start saying, well, what's going on here? What why you know, what are they ashamed of? Why are they hideous? Why are they picking the images that suit them? Um, you know, my parents ended up telling for Simon Winston's parent mom Which aircraft he was going to be on? And they found out from Jonas because you know, the British army aren't just useless at PR They don't trust their men And they don't know how to do it. So they end up picking You know people they think they can control and then you they find that they're dealing with someone like me or Simon Winston He's far too bright just to be controlled over the years And they're just not very good at it and they don't trust us. I mean we've seen That in the Falklands, they kept the journalist back kept the journalist back all the time When it came to Afghanistan the Americans embedded them And when these embedded journalists came back from patrols, they said my god Have you seen what the young men are doing for our country? And they wrote them up brilliantly and they they acknowledged that the amazing work And stuff that their young soldiers were doing as long as you hide the guy in the back All he's ever going to do is write the rumors And write the scandal Put him out the front. Let him see where the cross revives grow Um, perhaps you can explain this for an our friends at home We've seen those I don't know if iconic is the right word, but those awful Clip film clips where they're they're burying the dead the the regiments are burying their deads down there I can there's a particular point at one of the parrots Placing placing their men in a trench and What are those? Is that like a temporary thing and then they're Read yeah, that's a temporary set up uh before people are You know taking home again and dug up and taking home Uh, which is the way that You know, we've done it for a long time now Um people need to understand the history of after the First World War It was Politically decided not to do that Because of the massive Massive massive numbers of dead And if for years after the war ended in 1918 They'd been shiploads of corpses Being brought back to england you can imagine I mean all you don't see the war grows now see How many people or what it looks like and those are the ones that were found and identified um So, you know, they didn't bring them back after the First World War for that political reason We have Returned and repatriated the people from the falcons You know, classically the argentinians didn't want to repatriate their own for the same political reasons Um, I've never understood the numbers Suggested by of argentinian dead. I just think it's so inaccurate. It's untrue um But I don't know And Was this one of these ironies where did this bring you closer together as a family? You know, I mean Must be unimaginable for a parent to hear The news that they must have had to hear I'm in awe for I you know, I I do come from one of those kind of You know families. I I had two great uncles killed in the Second World War I had a father in the royal air force a mother in the royal air force a grandfather in the royal air force A grandfather and then the thumb of infusional is a brother in the scots guards. I've got a son in the scots guards We've done this for a while On to brighter climbs. What what? What do you do with yourself? these days, sir Well, I've moved back from france um Mainly because I have a daughter who needs to be in england. You've got some sort of uh, learning dispute issues um So I've just moved the family back from france and we're about to attempt to Start finding a A new home for ourselves. So we're just in rainfall accommodation. Which is very nice um And just trying to find our feet Obviously this year 40th anniversary. I feel I have some duties to do I'll be up to blackpaw Over the anniversary sort of 10th to the 14th whatever because I'm Honorary questioner to the tom down veterans and family association So we'll all go up there. Have a few baddies Have a few checks Do a bit of a march have a few a service remember our fall and uh, and then go our own ways for another year And do you sort of how was how was it after your recovery? Did you Did you get into sports or anything? Was was any particular? I'm guessing I I've got a fully paralyzed left hand side um That's the gymnastics career ended then was indeed and and my piano forte career um Yeah, it comes and goes a bit to spastic. He's not good. I had a fall last year um Because I tripped on my paralyzed foot And trapped my paralyzed arm between my rib cage to the ground I thought I'd cracked a rib or two Um Knowing there's virtually nothing you can do about that. I I sort of got home and suffered for a couple of days Uh ended up in an ambulance six days later to discover that I actually muckled fractures or eight ribs and I punctured my lung um So they cut all my back and spread the ribs taken out a few bits of lung um, which is why I'm smoking Uh, and uh, that wasn't very good news last year Uh, I just ticked by as I can As long as I bloody marry in the morning in an agrisco about lunchtime and then over the bottle of wine um Roll a couple of cigarettes in this outrageously expensive world. You know, I'm all right Yes, well you've certainly um, you've certainly earned it I wouldn't go that far. I'm certainly taking it Hey, you'll be lucky living living in france because I was um I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say this but I was a tobacco smuggler back in the day We used to hit a warehouse in belgium. I think it was not far from the french border and fill up our car to the gunnels then back through the channel tunnel dump it all in a A b&b in in dover and then back back through the tunnel again all with no sleep and um God, we we did so many trips And then finally we we pulled off that channel tunnel off the train. I mean And all the cops and the customs were there waiting for us in there like stop Follow this car, please and um They took us in this big warehouse which was full of God knows how many other vehicles that were all clearly smuggling vehicles that were Toyota the highest is and vans and all this stuff. They said Um, they interrogated us. We said it's personal use Oh, you intend to smoke 5 000 packages golden virginia, mr. Thrill, do you? Well, I'll give it a go And they said right we do your deal Um, you can claim it's for personal use and we'll take you to court and you can drive away now But we tell you you will lose in court Or You leave the car Leave everything in it leave everything in it and the doors there So the four of us looked at each other went next thing. We're trying to find a trying to find a bus stop to Take us back down to bloody devon. It was uh Yes, but uh, yeah, you've got the uh Wonderful cigarette prices over here to adjust to now So now i'm rolling my own Yes No, there's nothing that us guys who've served like more than a bit of drama It is the gray tedious administrative Have you paid a guest bill? That drives mad a bit of claret A few bangs That's what we live for Yes You get one life and if you live it right One is enough Robert listen it's been absolutely wonderful to finally meet you. Um We've been invaded by uh the solar influences There we go, there we go Yes, it it's um Yes, it's wonderful to finally meet you and um your story's just a bit particularly Meaningful and and Simultaneously emotional if I think for any any former service person and Thank you for your kind words about the podcast. It's um gosh I'll say again But the good work and keep putting it out. Hey chris. Yeah What our guys do Wow, it's uh, absolutely. I'll let her to hear that from you robert. Thank you so much Um, please stay on the line so I can just thank you properly, but for the purposes of the tape Thank you so much. Thank you for what you've done for my country uh nation, I should say And um to everybody at home Please if you could like and subscribe Uh, it's probably been a Chat I'd look forward to the most on bought the t-shirt and uh, I really hope You've uh, I don't know if enjoyed is the right word, but you've got as much out of it as I have massive love to you'll See you soon