 Recording. Is it on now? Is the recording on now? Yeah. Okay. All right. So hi everybody. Welcome to the Jenkins Advocacy and Outreach SIG meeting today is June 30th. On the agenda, I have welcome Fatih. So we'll chat with you in a little bit. We'll get a GSoc update from Jean-Marc. Scale 19x update from me and DevOps world from all of us. Anything else we need to add to the agenda? All right. Okay. So Fatih is the new GM for CDF. Welcome again. We're happy to have you. Thanks for joining us. If you wouldn't mind, I guess we can go around the table and introduce ourselves. And then Fatih, you can tell us a little bit about you. What is your vision for CDF and how could we play together going forward. So I'll start with myself. So I'm Alyssa. I've been a long time contributor with the Jenkins project. And right now, my main focus is on driving events and activities for Jenkins. Jean-Marc. Hello, hello. So I'm Jean-Marc Mason. This is the way it's pronounced correctly. I'm located in Brussels, Belgium, where we speak many languages. And I'm what's called the old generation. So full disclosure, I'm two years away from retirement. And although I worked for more than nearly 30 years for the same company and was gearing up for happy retirement, I realized that I was not too old for adventure and trying to change things. And so, five years ago, I decided to change from security, but boring to adventure and joined CloudBees for and because I've been working with Jenkins all those years and love to help people and share the nice things I learned. So I had various functions and joined the community team a year ago. That's it, Alyssa. Thanks, Jacques. Bruno? Hi, Bruno Dachlan from France, in the very northern part of France, just next to Jean-Marc, next to a city called Lille. Sorry, almost neighbors. And I'm pretty new to Jenkins, in fact, but I've been working around CICD for quite a long time now with GitLab. And now my main focus is about the community, of course, developers, users and so on. And my hobbies when it comes to Jenkins is about continuous integration and deployment for mobile devices. So for mobile development and if I ever get time to for embedded platforms. So we'll see. Thank you. Thanks, Bruno. Marc. Hi, I'm Marc Waite. I'm the Jenkins, I'm the community team manager at CloudBees. I'm a member of the Jenkins board. I'm the Jenkins documentation officer. And I also maintain a few Jenkins plugins. And Fatih, it's great to have you with us. Thanks very much for joining us today. Thanks, Marc. And thanks for passing the invite. I think that's like, we met during CDCon and I was like, can I join one of your calls and you sent the invite directly. Thanks a lot. So when it comes to me, as you know, I just, I recently joined CDF my first day at Chappals June 1. I joined from Ericsson, which you probably know, Tarko Vandor, and I've been mostly involved in continuous integration, continuous delivery type of activities from end user site. And well, if you look at Jenkins contributor stuff, you can't find me there because I probably haven't made any contributions to Jenkins because like my focus was around more how to say, cultural social aspects of continuous integration, continuous delivery rather than focusing on tools a lot because when tools and technologies, we start talking about them. That takes the conversation to different place. So that's how I start contributing to open source originally in under Linux Foundation networking communities, which is like Ericsson, Tarko Vandor networking. So that is how I start around 2013-14. And I was kind of surprised to see how much work that we must do in telecom and probably similar in other industries as well. Well, across different communities, I start in one of the project called Open Platform for Network Functions Virtualization and we use Jenkins and I think the community still uses Jenkins and then I start contributing to some other networking communities and then OpenStack and I joined OpenStack community while they are moving from Jenkins to Zool. So I was kind of a witness to that transformation. And around, I think, 2017-18, we start talking about how we can make sure that we have broader collaboration within CI-CD ecosystem which results in a project called cross community continuous integration. Because if you look at different communities, they all use different technologies and sometimes again it is difficult to bring people to higher level to see why we are doing CI and CD at first place. And that resulted in me joining Continuous There Foundation because it was established almost around 2019. And since 2019, I've been contributing to Continuous There Foundation, mainly through Special Interest Groups. The first group was the Special Interest Group Interoperability because like if you look at organizations or communities, they use more than one technology and it's not specific to CI-CD orchestrators and so on, like artifact repositories, they all interact with each other and that kind of became a problem for companies like Ericsson because like if you don't have an alignment or I don't want to call it standardization but kind of standardization, then it makes it very difficult for organizations to establish and to end pipelines which starts from developer workstation and hits the production systems. And that group, Special Interest Group Interoperability was very successful, not because I was taking part on it but because there were lots of people with same concerns. And then that group resulted in three other Special Interest Groups, Special Interest Group events, Special Interest Group best practices, Special Interest Group software supply chain and after two years I said it's time for me to step down and someone else can bring fresh ideas and new perspectives. So I started working on software supply chain area because of my past history with security topics and that's what we formed around February now I am co-chairing that group as well with CDF. And more specifically Jenkins, I had a master's thesis project, I was mentoring two students during my Ericsson base around 2014 and I think I had meetings with Kosuke and a few others from Jenkins community about our idea around achieving highly available Jenkins, active-active Jenkins setup. Again, that didn't become a contribution but that is available on Google, if you search for it you will see the work we have done there but it's like almost 10 years old, it's not probably relevant anymore, but that is kind of who I am, sorry for long introduction. I am here to learn and see how we can collaborate better. Fatih, can I ask a dumb question? I know I could research it but maybe best to hear it from the horse's mouth directly. What are the kind of companies or projects or entities that are part of CDF? Well, again this, now if you ask me the question before I joined CDF my answer would have been the same so just to note that now it has become my job so I don't think that I am, my response is like that. One of the coolest things that made me join the Foundation as contributor three years ago is the diversity of companies, like on industries I should say, like if you look at the member list that's what I looked when it was announced first and all the time I followed that as well. Like you have web scale companies there, you have like Google is there, you have Oracle Clouds and then you have like Netflix is there, you have Talco, Huawei is there, you have Finance, Fidelity and Capital One, they are there. They have like vendors from CICD space, they are there. It's like, it's because that is kind of confirming my thinking when I was joining CDFS contributor. This continuous delegation, continuous delivery develops or whatever you are calling that requires broader collaboration, not specific to a single industry, not specific to a certain type of product structure like it could be embedded, it could be cloud native, it could be Talco, software, it could be mobile banking up on your phone. So that is my answer. I hope I am answering your question correctly. So like, again, the other thing is like I am a true believer of cross-community collaboration. So that's why we named one of the projects we formed like a few years ago, cross-community continuous integration. That is happening within continuous delivery foundation, but another important aspect of continuous delivery foundation is cross-pollination across industries. I think Talco, Talco is still highly specialized, you know, vertically integrated and when you go to a vendor, you are stuck with that vendor because it's not opened up yet, but it doesn't mean it won't open up. So, but if you compare it with web scalers or other companies who are really on the, you know, ahead of other industries, CDFS gives a lot of opportunities for different industries to come and join, learn from others. At the same time, kind of question other organizations approach because what work for that company or that industry may not work well in another industry and that could open up additional opportunities because then that could make what is available even better by bringing new requirements or addressing new challenges. So cross-collaboration across companies, industries and communities is how I see continuous delivery foundation. Okay. Thank you very much. So Fatih, I will take up exception to one of your comments. You said you are not a Jenkins contributor. And I take strong exception because you were a key leader in the event specification that was used in the Google Summer of Code project in 2021. You said correctly, the events work that you did was the seed for that Google Summer of Code. Okay, admittedly, we don't have your name on any poll requests in Jenkins, but then again, many people have no name, no name nowhere on any poll request and yet they are still very much a valued contributor. So your events work, for instance, and now that Fidelity is interested in doing more with the CD event specification and bringing back the cloud events plug-in to interesting ways, I think you'll again be more involved, maybe then you might have expected. Well, so from my voice, thanks for your contributions to Jenkins, even if you didn't realize you were contributing to Jenkins. Thanks for highlighting that that made me really happy if I contributed a little bit. Thank you. So Fatih, what is your vision for CDF? Again, I always put community first because like we can, you know, think about great things and cool ideas and strategize forever, but if we don't have community support, then we can't realize all those good ideas. And I think Jenkins is a community that could be looked as an example because it has a great community and like just random number, 70% of the entire world is still running on Jenkins. So that shows how important is the community because those people, the community made Jenkins ready and moving it forward. So one of the key things we are focusing right now is to make sure how we best serve the communities, not just CDF community itself, it seeks, but also the projects that are under CDF umbrella are served in a best possible way. Because if we make developers happy, they will be enjoying what they are doing, they will be taking part in all these, you know, different new innovations, if we put that way, that will open up a new opportunity. So community is one of the key things and this will become more visible with the work we started, we started, you know, writing guidelines for example, or making community center. So everyone thrives around community, everyone feels welcome, everyone knows how they can join the community and so on. And secondly, the other aspect is I think organizations like end users, they are doing lots of work behind the scenes because sometimes they look at what is available in communities, they get some open source project, open technology, they try it. They don't find what they are looking for and they go and try enterprise solutions and they may not be good for them either, so they end up building platforms internally. How we can make sure that we bring our end users like to stage in different ways and let them speak about what they are doing and why they are doing those things. Like one example could be like end user case studies, so they describe what they are doing, which could be useful for communities because then communities look at what those end users had to develop themselves for thousands of people, large organizations and they can perhaps take that commit could take that and perhaps bring that to life as part of open source technologies or suppliers or other organizations could look at what end users are doing and they can provide solutions for those things. So end users, making them talk, sharing their challenges and helping other organizations that are on their way to embrace continuously and develops is another thing. So technology that is critical, we have lots of things happening across all these communities and this is not just specific to continuous data foundation, lots of innovation, lots of developments happening in CNCF, lots of things start happening in open SSF, how we can make sure that we can plug into those conversations, how we can make sure that continuous data foundation is seen as the place to collaborate on continuous delivery and develops. You know, developing best practices or developing new technologies, so positioning CDF by, you know, getting support from our communities getting support from our end users. And finally, the other aspect is governing board, we have meaning you must have their support as they are investing in this community. So we must make sure that we have full transparency and full communication across all these different, you know, entities, projects, communities and user organizations and the governing board member so things could be discussed transparently openly. So we can bring different things to different forms and find best way to push the domain forward. So, in summary, I think, personally, constantly their foundation is the place to be if people want to work in continuous delivery, if people want to annoy it in continuous delivery, if people want to learn new things. And that is what I hope to achieve. And I met with lots of people during CDCon, one of them, Mark and Alisa, I met with you there as well. I think the excitement I've seen there, even though it was a smaller event compared to how it was in earlier years, people are really excited. That's what I felt. I am normally a pessimistic person. Like I, I tried to take things with a pinch of salt, you know, but that event increased my hopes that we can achieve this. And that's why I was in Jenkins project meeting there also take on CD events to make sure that I can be like seen as part of those communities. Because I am part of I want to stay part of as a community. I want to contribute any way I can. So we can make the, we can create a shared vision across different communities, and we can push domain for them realize our vision together. So, long story short, going back to what I said, I think we as a community should have a vision. And that's what we should work together. I know if I answered. Yeah. Questions for Fatih at this point. So, do you so I like what I'm hearing thank you so much. I, and I completely agree with you that, you know, community is super important, and users important. I'm telling them tell a story so one of the things that I did in the past year was create this. We call it Jenkins is the way and where we collected stories successful stories of how people use Jenkins. And we have like over 100 of those stories. Yes, keep up with that vision, if you will, and I think it'll, it'll, it'll be great and it'll be helpful to other people that's that's want to join the CDF and being a user. Now, as far as how do you see us working together to better support each other. I guess the question now is the how if you, if you have that yeah if you don't have that yeah it's fine. So, we have some ideas actually like how one of the things I heard when I talk to different people. They say, they don't know what's happening within different projects or committees, they want to make sure that we highlight the latest developments, the committees are doing or the issues they may be hearing are the cool things they are bringing to life. And Lori, Lori so I don't know if any of you had chance to met with her. She just became. Yeah, we were in the meeting. Exactly. She has really great ideas. Like when I met with her in Austin during CD that was kind of another turning point for me to become more optimistic because like, she knows, and she worked in community setting for a long time and she has ways to bring these different committees together and make sure that we are picking committees brains, because many people have lots of ideas in their minds or in their brains or they have concerns. It's important that we talk to not just committees, but whoever wants to talk to us, get them talk, put them, you know, on the website and tell us your day as a Jenkins contributor for example. That is one way to make sure that Jenkins or other communities we have within CDF become more visible. The other thing is like constant share of information. And I think Tim, I think he's Jenkins release officer. I said like, how can we provide updates about Jenkins more often. What is your release schedule is that we make quarterly LTS releases and I was like, can we get regular updates from Jenkins comment that matches your release schedule so you can talk about new things maybe you address the critical security or you have really new cool plugin like CD events will happen hopefully talk about those things which could attract interest to CDF to Jenkins to CD events and help grow the community. Again, to summarize, we have to keep talking, we have to keep communicating. Like, as I said, like, I want to join as many community meetings as many Jenkins community meetings as possible. And, please, like, it was great seeing all of you doing the meeting on Monday, but there are many more discussions happening within CDF commit under different six or as part of our site community. I think you should also try to take part in those conversations because some conversations that is happening there would have a lot of new opportunities for Jenkins commit like one of the conversations was like intent based pipelines. And what that means, people are cooking stuff there. So if you can be present within CDF community, and you can bring that back to Jenkins commit so bridge the gap. I think that is the first thing again, establish this value working communication across different communities. And that will help us find other ways to collaborate as well. So the practical question related to your, your last to your last point is, you encourage us to chime in or to listen to the various other meetings to improve and make the flow of information more efficient. How can we be informed of these what is the entry point because after one year CDF was for me a big black box and where do I enter in it where where does it start how can I start pulling the yarn out. Yeah, that is a great point. And one of the things we plan to work on is to make such information more visible like how one can join the community, which, you know, topics are currently being discussed within the community and which groups are looking at those topics. And I confess, I didn't know we had a community web page on CDF website. I was told recently that we have a community page but that's not visible. We have to make that visible. So, and the CDF website should be helping people to highlight such things. Okay, we are working on software supply chain area. How can we find that it is not easy to find it like yeah thanks Alissa like if you go to community there. If you could or join the community button, sorry, button that join the community. So that is like this page lists slack community calendar, especially in their schools but I didn't see the page because I became blind looking at the web page too much. So here you have a place where you can find different groups we have different projects we have, but this must be input. This is the place where you can find that but the main communication happens on Slack and GitHub. If you join CDF Slack, and if you start watching certain repositories like C repos or project repos, then you will see the conversations happening that for example this events CD events specification is currently being developed within CD events organization on GitHub. And if you start watching various repos that you will get notifications but again, things will hopefully be improved. Yeah, you can look at this page as the place to see where things are listed. Okay, very good hint. Okay, thank you and buy should have found it. I couldn't find it so I failed to find it. I think I like how we have it on the on our Jenkins.io for how to how you can contribute. Overview. Overview. The fact that it did not immediately appear for you is a hint that there's still much to improve much. Yeah, we need to do our homework there too. Lots. Yeah, this the whole successful web navigation is is a whole interesting problem. We just need to rework this probably because I mean I'm on this page a whole lot because you know when I need to add events to GitHub and such on this page a lot, but I would not look for it under overview. Because it says participate and contribute. You, you hinted you, you didn't, you didn't find this by immediate navigation we've got lots to. Yeah. Yeah, one of the committees I was involved years ago, we created a simple like four step visual, like showing, are you trying to, you know, work with this topic, not topic level but are you trying to find the documents like trail trail, what was it called? No, showing different personas and then click here kind of and that was on landing page. Start here kind of thing very obvious. So if you click there then you end up on whatever resource you are looking at. But yeah, CDF websites will hopefully be improved coming. Great. I, I hijacked your meeting. No, not at all. Yeah, it's it's for me it's important. Yeah. Any other questions for Fatih? Well, related. One of the things that that CDF provides is logistics for a couple of things and they have been rumors. And then precise and then precise, you know the migration of about to to bevy. Yeah. And this has been raised and I hope will continue to work on that with Ali and it's it's what's it's her first name is. Michelle, is it Michelle? Lori? No, Lori, yeah. Well, I think it's part of the outreach with the support of logistics so I don't know who would be the main partner there but for us it will be a very important project. Yeah. When baby topic first came up, I think it was January or February, I asked similar questions like how is this going to happen and then we tried baby and we found some issues we provide feedback for those things and they address some of those issues. And now we also start talking to CNCF committee because they I think they either completed their migration or they are nearing the completion. So, Michelle, as she summarized on Monday, we need to come up with a good transition plan so all the committees know what is happening when and so on. And as she also said like zoom will stay if things don't work according to the plan we will come up with and we will always some backup but yes baby is one of the top priorities we are working on. I mean to work with baby supplier, the company names also baby I believe to make sure that whatever the platform price is what the communities need. We don't just blindly embrace it, we have to get things working for community and that requires us to have some trials or pilots for different projects perhaps different groups so they go and try things before the entire community on boards to baby. So transition would be smarter for the remaining parts of the community. Will this be discussed who is driving and who owns. Currently, yeah, you can reach out to me if you have baby questions, because two of our team members are currently out of office and that is one of the conversations we will have when they are back next week or week after next to make sure we have an individual who the communities could reach out to, but currently you can reach out to me and when we identify who should be the main contact person for baby then we can help you find that person as well. It could be. Sorry, I didn't want to. I'm done like yeah. Okay, because seen the size of the community and the connection we have and web being on on the on the cautious side, you know the side where we just in case we foresee a parachute in the submarine because it might be useful. We're not exaggerating there but we want to start early. Yeah, that we that we learn the tool that we know how it behaves that we create a transition plan that we start early enough, our communication plan. That we so so there is there is a project plan to set up for us in in currently beside me getting excited on my side and writing down ideas and say we should do this and this and that we would do somewhere. It's disconnected because we don't don't know we're learning and so what I hear from you is, let's be patient for a couple of weeks. And yeah, but yeah, at least you know we're very interested. When this topic came up, one of the things were like, Oh, maybe we should ask projects to try this out. It was February, March, during techno or side committee meeting CDF TOC meeting. I said like, instead of we asked the projects to try and kind of suffer because things don't work. Why don't we try ourselves as techno or side committee. And I think CDF TOC was one of the first groups who started using baby. And that's, again, we need to put this type of information on a clear timeline. Okay, we tried CDF TOC it work for them for majority of things. Let's give a try with Jenkins advocacy this meeting, for example, just making it up to move it to baby to see how it works, or if it works. And then you also gain experience yourself by trying it out. Before you ask Jenkins committee to start transitioning and we can put this on a timeline. When is Jenkins committee trying this August, and then we line up others based on the outcomes from your trials for perhaps. Okay, so first, you know, we're, we're waiting or we're ready to be part of that. And we wait for clarifications. Yeah, I am meeting with baby next week and one of our team as we'll be back from her time of week after next so we should have some rough idea about how we are going to work with this during July. And sorry to bombard you with questions. If we continue to go to the outreach meetings, which is at least one of the meetings where I can hold to will be informed of the progress and where we're standing. Is that the appropriate channel? I can, I can talk with Lori and Michelle to see if they consider baby as part of their, you know, outreach efforts because they have tons of other things to deal with as well. And I will get back to you with more information where this type of information is shared. Maybe this becomes a standing item for taking our side committee because this is high in the list. We have to make sure to save all the tools at their hands working so they can continue moving forward. But I will find out as well which forum is the place to discuss baby as well. Sorry Alyssa to have put the time I've been thinking about that. Yeah I think we're Jean-Marc and I we run the Jenkins online meetup and that's one of our largest meetup groups. And so we are a little bit worried because we don't know what baby looks like what we probably should do our own research but at this point we don't know and we haven't experienced it. So any kind of training would be helpful for us to put us at ease. If you will. Yeah. I will get back to it. It's good that Alyssa and Jean-Marc I will be reaching out to you then what baby information which you can share with others as well in the community. Great. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Okay. So, moving on to the next items of our agendas. Do you stock update John Mark. Well, because it was a very interesting discussion up to now so I'll make my part here short, or at least we'll try. So the projects are now two weeks into coding. They're making progress. I had a one to one chat with every contributor. And so the atmosphere is good. And the next milestone will be that will organize an online meetup. What has been decided for the 21st of July, where the G sock projects will present to the community in more details what their project is about where they standing, what has been achieved up to date. And if possible, present a small demo or something concrete, something concrete, I don't know if it's an English word about what what they did. I tried and explored the possibility as was done the years before to invite the dev, the G sock contributors to DevOps world for our contributors and get sponsoring for that. So, I wrote a summary of that research to you, Alyssa, the summary of that in a nutshell is that for various reason, ranging from covert quarantine rules coming back to the country to school assignment and constraints. So not all countries are aligned with July, August being the holidays school holidays. So, in India, for instance, school starts beginning of August, for instance, they will not be able to answer positively to our invitations. On top of that, the, the amount of sponsoring that would be required for that is quite high. So, this is something that we would need to discuss is it worthwhile or not. It's worthwhile. Yes. But in the current conditions, the world situation, the coming crisis, economical crisis and so on. I am a little reluctant to continue pushing the effort because there will only be two that could answer the invitation and it's a lot of money. Although I promote the idea. I find it's incredible assets to make these young people grow and take their place within the community. It's a great experience on the other side. Funding and possible sponsoring outside of the Jenkins project is scarce and I don't want to waste or spend money that that would put us in problems. Yeah. So, it was my point understood that it sounds good. I was. Yes, gorgeous. The flight ticket from India is $1500 US dollars plus lodging plus the rest. It starts to add up. Right. So, question is, do we decide here to move on with me promoting and addressing the Jenkins government sport for the funding, or do we decide here to put that sponsoring idea in the fridge for this year and see how things evolve. So I still need to, I'm waiting to hear back from Michelle about last year's stipend or stipend. GSOC stipend that there was $3,000 that we received and it fell into the CDF bucket. So I'm still waiting for Michelle to confirm whether that $3,000 is still there. Okay. And for precision, Alyssa, five of the six projects last year were Jenkins projects, not all six of them. So logically they might say 2,500 of the 6,000 should go to the Jenkins project the other 500 to the other project that hosted a Google summer of code project last year. That makes sense. Okay, so I wait for your feedback there Alyssa and then we put it back on the table and we see. Now, honestly, I'm defending them and will be their advocate, but I'm also family father I know we need to be cautious with money. Yeah. All right, well we'll chat about this next time. Yep. So this is all for me. Thank you. Scale 19 X it this is Southern California Linux expo that is taking place end of July. Fatih this is an open source conference I know the Jenkins project has a booth there and because we are an open source project. We get a boot space for free so it's a 10 by 10 boot space. I know that CNCF is there every year if I'm not mistaken. We so we plan to be there this year we will have Mark has a speaking slot there as well. Kosuke is going to be joining us at the booth because he has a speaking slot and so he's going to hang out for the weekend with his family and just hang out at the booth with us. I think in previous year when we were there in person, you know, I worked with Jackie if she had like, CDF content that she wanted us to help pass out I'd be more than happy to have that available at our booth. So keep that in mind, but we'd love to have you join us if possible. I think they expect about 3000 attendees. Given that now we are, you know, still in the COVID area, we don't know what to expect yet. And then our next biggest conference that we that the Jenkins project will be attending is DevOps world and that is in Orlando, Florida, and of September. We, I know that the events team has extended an offer to CDF. And I think fatigue at the moment to where you're you don't have plans for to in a tent to attend. But I highly suggest that you just you know calm check it out. It's it's a really, it's a big event for us. That is we where we usually have the biggest Jenkins gathering. We have a contributor summit before the conference days we usually have workshops Jenkins workshops. And just a lot of Jenkins talks, we also have a very big booth that cloud bees has graciously sponsored us and it's this year it's a 10 by 20 booth space, and they're helping us to pay for that for the design and all that stuff. So we use that booth space as to educate people to do lightning talks to to help answer questions so it's kind of like our ask the expert area. So, so even if CDF doesn't plan to be there I highly recommend that perhaps you can join or somebody on the team from CDF join because I know that the team is new. It's getting a view of, you know, what it's like, but I know that when Tracy and Jackie was leading CDF. It was quite a good experience for CDF. Yeah, with my team to see if anyone can make. Yeah, we love to have somebody there. Yeah, we love to see so the events team has given us a discount code that we can share with the community right now we're still in the early bird. Yeah, so I'm, yeah, I'm just throwing this out there but I'm not really promoting it yet so I won't promote that until after July six. On July, on July six, the rate goes up to over $1,000 and so the discount that they're giving us is the price will be 950. And that is all that I have anything else. I have one open question for Fatih unrelated to Jenkins advocacy but related to Jenkins infrastructure. So we may need your help to enter into an agreement with one of our providers. They've been a long term open source sponsor, but they have some additional conditions that they're putting on most of the people are on the organizations that they sponsor. And one of those is a commercial agreement I assume I work with you Fatih to start that conversation because commercial agreements typically would not come from the Jenkins project but from its parent organization. Please, any material if you could share before we start working on it, I can read and educate myself and ask around to see. Yeah, I'll give you I'll give you an email summary long, long and boring email summary of all the history that I know and what the parts and pieces are so that you understand the context. Just wanted to be sure that you're the right contact for that so I'll start with you and then if you need to deflect me to someone else you certainly can. Great. Thank you. Great. Thank you everybody. Have a good evening. Have a good day. Thank you very much for everybody. Bye.