 Former President Goodluck Jonathan states that Nigeria's woes are traumatizing and confusion in a number of states' PDPS2 candidates emerge as winners in the parallel PDP governorship primaries. Well, this is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anacor. Former President Goodluck Jonathan has said the rising insecurity, poor economy and other vices bedeviling the nation were wasting mental health as most Nigerians have become traumatized by the happenings in the country. He deployed autism in schools and how it is compounding the prevailing security situation in Africa's most populous nation, Nigeria. The ex-president observed that most areas of the nation's health system needed to be upgraded to international standards. Well, joining us to have a conversation on this issue is Olawale Okuni, his Director-General of Nigeria Intervention Movement, NIM and Tanko UNICEF National Chairman of the National Conscience Party, NCP. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Great. I'm going to start with you, Mr Okuni. You obviously work with an intervention movement and one of the first things that former President Goodluck Jonathan pointed to was the fact that the reason why we're having so many culture-related activities in schools is that these young persons have taken to drugs. So let's start with that. How did we get to this point where the young children, I mean, I have seen a group of young boys who, I think that video went viral, who were taking drugs and they were taking pills to get high. And a few minutes later, they were all just rolling in the mud and literally had lost their mind. A lot of people would point fingers at the home front. Some would say it's societal pressure. But hey, we're dealing with banditry, we're dealing with causticism and we're dealing with drug abuse. This is a portfolio of issues. But how did we get here? Thank you. It's really unfortunate that the country has gone into this abyss. It's really very sad that people who want happiness, human beings naturally want happiness when we are drugged. And the conditions are tough. At home front, the parents cannot cope anymore with sustaining or getting means of livelihood for their children. And so people want just an escape route. People just want a route out of the traumatizing situation that we have found ourselves. And so people resort to drugs to find some circle. Where there is peer pressure, peer pressure and the rest. But then I mean, for me, I think that people just want some comforts of solace just to make themselves and then they get introduced to drugs. The parents could no longer forge to take care of their children and then the children are more comfortable in the midst of their peers. I mean, some of them who are well-to-do or from well-to-do homes. So these are factors. This is a cycle that is leading us to a drug, you know, this very dangerous situation of having to abuse drugs. So I think President Donatan is not really out of place when he talked about this. The situation of the country is quite traumatizing. And then people are looking for escape routes which we have. And so people resort to drugs. People resort to group, peer pressure and so on and so forth. So that's my take. It's unfortunate. It's really a need. Even older people are into drugs. Even when you see the state of insecurity, those who are very much engaged in this resort to drug, one way or the other. So we really have to do something about our economy. We need to do something. If we're able to do something about our economy, that will get reduced. Thank you. Okay. Let's continue to... I'm building up to where we're going to. Now, you have mentioned that even the guys that are involved now, like I said at the beginning, we have banditry, we have kidnapping, we have burqa haram and the rest of it. And at its core is drug abuse. Now, the NDLA recently had proposed that there's going to be a drug test of sorts for people who are preparing to get into marriage and that it might help to ascertain the mental state of people who want to get married to avoid whatever kinds of actions that might be detrimental to that union. But of course, there are also people who kick against it. Should we wait till it's married? There have been people who have also proposed that we have to test our politicians, our police officers, and not just drug tests, but also to check their mental well-being to be sure that these people are fit for offices. But in terms of these drug tests, alcohol tests should also be part of it because we have seen police officers on duty and some of them were under the influence. So, should we wait till people want to get married to have these tests? Do we even necessarily have to have it as a rule of law of sorts? Well, I think if this writing is done, which is to solve our economic problem, we might overcome a lot of these problems. If we are able to provide for the citizens, if we are able to arrange ourselves well enough, we may be able to overcome this. How do you deal with the economy? I'm sorry to speak over you. How do we deal with the economy when we are facing these hydro-headed monsters called insecurity? I mean, on every front, whether it be militancy or Boko Haram or the bandits, farmer-herders clash, whether it be cultism in the South-South, I mean, how do you deal with the economy when insecurity is rife? How are you going to get businesses up and running if you are having these issues left, right, and sent? And don't forget the reason why the cost of living seems to be rising high and foodstuffs are now pretty expensive is because these farmers are unable to go to their farms and harvest their products. You know, in the safety of the day, they literally need to pay security officers to go with them so again, we know that insecurity is the basis of Nigeria's problems right now, but of course we have other problems. So how do you want to deal with the economy if you haven't dealt with insecurity? Is this not an offshoot? Yes, it is really, but they are intertwined with the economy and the security situation. But fundamentally, we need to deal with the state of our union to be able to address the problem of insecurity and our economic problems, the very terrible economic situation. The first thing to deal with for me is for Nigeria to build, to really structure in a way that we can have our money, cohesion and stability. If we are able to deal with our constitutional foundation, we can overcome the problem of insecurity to a large extent. And then from there, we will be able to deal with our economy and foster what you call economic prosperity. It's unfortunate that Nigeria has been structured in a way that it will not bring about prosperity. It will not even bring about peace, stability, or crisis. So you need to go back to the business. You will need to deal with how the Nigerian people engage. Nigerian people for once must be allowed to take ownership of the country, not that the tiny cattle of the ruling class will foist the constitutional structure that keeps making the people and servicing or serving them. So these are the problems where we are the tiny people holding the economy, the resources of the country at the job-la and then they are not going to let you. But isn't that the idea of government? Government is a handful of people leading the larger majority with the rulebook of sorts, which is the constitution in this regard. So except you know the fact that you said they will be holding Nigerians at the juggler. But of course the office of the citizen is also a very powerful office. Could it be that we Nigerians do not really understand the powers that come with that office, hence the reason why we still seem to be at the mercy of this tiny majority who we call our leaders? Yeah, the way politics is structured in Nigeria makes it impossible for the majority to be able to do anything meaningful, except by revolution. And that is why leaders of thought and conscience have been clamoring for constitutional the engineering of the country. The way it is told is that the ruling class will continue to make the common patrimony of the people. And that is the structure in life. In which case those who are in government and who control the state are super rich. Why the majority of the people are made power pass and beggars. And so the result of insecurity and drop if you want to even do the violence you look for certain reasons to help you. Those who are recruited into that must go by. So it is a foundational problem with Nigeria. If we need to solve the symptom of drug abuse and so on and so forth we must deal with our foundation. In which case the majority of Nigerians would have their wealth guaranteed under governors. Today people are their own. They make their roads, they make their bones, they make their legs, they make everything in government here in Nigeria is virtually absent in the life of people. And then you find the political class honoring the resources. And then you flip the majority of Nigerians in a dead body. So they will resort to anything. They will resort to their push to the works. I will come back to you Mr. Kuniyi. Let me go to Mr. Tanko Unisa who is on the phone. Mr. Unisa, just listening to the conversation we have been having. Mr. Kuniyi seems to be saying that government has failed the people. Former president is talking about the walls of Nigeria and how traumatizing it is for the average Nigerian. And I know that you live in Nigeria so you know all of the things that we have been experiencing lately. Aside from insecurity, the cost of living is rising high. We are facing an inflation of sorts. The Naira is deeping on a daily and of course you know we are also dealing with issues of cultism and children getting more and more into that whole of drug abuse. Where do we even start to deal with this issue? Because it seems like the plate of Mr. President and the federal government seems to be full. Like just like Walid has said earlier on we are facing a situation where in the country where the majority of Nigerians are still appointed with the way in which leadership is being propelled and that really generated a lot of questions to be asked. I was watching the other day a video by former minister of agriculture Sa'adu Ube. He was giving analysis of how we miss the point and then we find ourselves in this situation as it were. Economically, security wise and in terms of the unity of the countries. Interestingly he said he was a young minister at that time that it is very difficult to understand why we have to open our borders for importation of goods and services but why he was making those accession he was not supported because he felt he was speaking as a young person. But what I found interesting in that statement is this at that point in time we were able to identify the challenges that we have as a mission but up to today this is 34 years long down the line. We have not been able to extract a particular problem apart from the fact that we devalue our Naira we went ahead again to open our borders where we can take in goods and services but we were not producing anything and if you are a consumer nation obviously what you have is indebtedness and that is a situation where we find ourselves we have been saying for a very long time that governance has left the people the local government are not functioning very well the people who are supposed to go closer to the local government the impact of governance and so they let them follow open to insurgency so anybody can use them for any kind of social mafia. So what we find at the moment is failure of leadership to identify the system breakdown and trying to mend it unfortunately also we have a president who have not come through for the people maybe toward the last two years of his tenure he is trying to show his capacity but quite honestly it is a little bit too late but we can do one thing we can get the people to believe that there is a country and then we can still work together in trying to move and mend all the fences but as we are today we failed the people the government have failed the people woefully and we are only looking up to 2023 where the poor of impeccable character can be able to run for positions of power Mr. UNICEF it is interesting that you have to bring 2023 into the conversation but it is two years away from 2023 and we are still dealing with people being abducted on a daily basis I mean for these bandits it seems to become one thing for them because it is happening every week if not every day or every two days they are taking people and they are certain that monies will be paid for them to release these students but let's talk about people who have come up or that this whole insecurity has thrown up the likes of Sunday, Bohol, the likes of Sheikh Gumi, the likes of Namdi Khan who has been reawaken very loud even almost at the same level with the voices of those in power and the question one would ask is there is obviously a loophole and a leakage which has led to these voices becoming so powerful and yet we are unable to deal with the issue of insecurity for example we have had a Sheikh Gumi who has number one asked for amnesty for bandits he has also asked that the CBN at some point make available funds to give to these kidnappers to release students who were kidnapped he has also recently spoken about the fact that there has been a collusion between the army and these bandits and one would wonder who Sheikh Gumi is that he is saying all of these things and still walking free as opposed to an amnesty kind of who has been part of a group of people who have been prescribed several years ago and then we also have a Sunday, Bohol, who many have also frowned at some of the things that he has said but there has been a reason why these men have been thrown up in the system because of insecurity why does there seem to be a ping-pong attitude as to how to deal with insecurity and these men who are saying things that seem to be unnecessarily or rather insensitive, especially for a time like this look, let us be frank had it been that the government has been up and doing they've really been able to put pen to paper and say look, we want to work on the economy of this country we want to provide jobs we want to provide food on the table of every Nigerian we want to ensure that the country is secured and many people are seeing this thing being done on a daily basis there wouldn't have been any agitation by the likes of Nandekanu or the likes of Sunday, Bohol or even Chef Gumi who is speaking from an uncontrolled position I really don't understand how a clergyman will be speaking about abducting children and collecting money at the same time as justifying that situation to me is totally unacceptable and neither would I accept any idea from Nandekanu, editing and mobilizing people to be killed or our security apparatus like the policemen and all saying that they can go in, kill them attack them is unacceptable but all of these is gravitated towards the inability of the government to be able to deal with the issue ab initio, let me give you an example the situation that happened in Oyo happened in a village Iganga for example I'm sure that's the name of the village what really happened was that there are governors who have been using machineries using either full army or local militia in order to gain power they have armed these individuals with a lot of guns they can't retrieve these guns anymore now when the killing started people now started looking for respite and so what did they do they ended up in the hands of the same militia which the governors have financed and empowered to become their own security agent can you just imagine where is the police where is the army where is the NDSC where are the security agencies that's to show you because the government has failed in its responsibility to deal with these issues as they start before I go back I just want to push you further on something you're saying, I mean yes the box stops at the table of our governments federal or state or local government but our security agents have been over and over they've claimed that they do not know where these bandits are they've kept feeding us that story but then there's a Sheikh Gumi who has been able to go to these bandits again and again accompanied by security appraisers we have seen a video that has surfaced they're not the box here for me so again it makes us really question whatever it was going out it goes out with the security appraisers so obviously what it means is that our security people know where the bandits are so the question is if our security agents because I wanted to ask that question before you started talking if our security agents know where the bandits are what is the story that they're telling us and why should we believe that story now that we've seen videos of some of these security agents who are known bandits and killers and there are people who are also criticizing the fact that we're still calling them bandits that these are the people who are terrorizing our communities and they are terrorists so what is the duty of people like you and Mr Kuni who are supposed to be leaders of thought and people who are pushing for good governance why are we still sitting on our hands on this issue knowing that knowing what we know now is really lackadestical about this issue for us we're not in government I have not heard any position in governance since I started my struggle but the truth about it is that I've been a strong advocate of a negligent society I've been a strong advocate of a fair and equity society where every Nigerian has a right to play his business or aspire to be anybody in this country and we have remained consistent in that particular manner so coming back to your question with regard to the issue of identifying that our security agencies know where the bandits are that is the internal conspiracy that we are facing I've always said that there's an internal and external conspiracy against the Nigerian state and the Nigerian state is suffering from that particular internal and external conspiracy which has now been extrapolated and confirmed by Shibumi without his statement if the security agencies have been following Shibumi out to anywhere he's going then why couldn't they have organized themselves in getting rid of these particular people if not that there's a conspiracy against the state so I think Mr. President is not doing enough he has not put the right people in the right places and he has not been able to put his feet down to know exactly where the issue pinches but anyway the time is coming they were out only 2 years left every Nigerian should go out and register to vote you can say you will not register to vote register and vote not only for voting but bring out the best candidate not because of his money but because of his track record who can make changes in this society we don't have any other country if you like you want to piss Nigeria into 10 places the same situation we can prepare I will come back to this because you're really pulling my strings with the track record issue don't get me started on Mr. President but let me come back to you Mr. Lawale the issue of Mr. President and the federal government's strategy to handling this insecurity issue is on the lips of everybody many have accused Mr. President of double standards using a sledge hammer to kill an ant in the south east and of course playing kids gloves in the north and north central and of course the north west so just looking at what Mr. UNICEF has said that there seems to be a collusion this is not the first time we're hearing it even though Sheikh Gumi had to restate it and of course the army had said that what he was saying or rather they countered his statement that the farmer serving security official had also said this that there was some collusion at the time when we before this issue became as big as this at the time when we had the farmer-herder's clash T.Y. Dandrimer had raised the alarm about the fact that there was some form of collusion and now the federal government seems to only pay lip service to this issue and not acting as much as we would expect for them to handle and with all of the things that we're seeing play out what is left for the common Nigerian to do to get government to really get to work? I think we have a complex situation on our hand and then the state is very weak because it has lost a lot of ground in terms of legitimacy and popularity and so it cannot deal with insurgency effectively people today have resorted to self-help since government is not listening to the attitude and advocacy and then government have become increasingly popular and so that will generate tension and problems and people like Gumi have just been used because government is service weak they have no choice than to work with people like Gumi in the north why people like Namjikan and Sunday will be naturally suppressed because of what they are calling for which is sessions so to say so we need to deal with government I don't know where this government will be to deal with that we can't go to election this way if you go to election this way you are going to have the same result you dare not go to election it will produce a far more result because those who go into government they go into government because of the juice of governance money to serve themselves and government and politics will become the only thriving business in the country and then it is do or die it is politics of money bags and high speeder it is not politics of principle or service of value people go into politics because they want to make it they want to make big bucks and therefore when you leave politics to that state then you will have large people impoverished popularized and humanized and they will result in violence and that's why we have violence everywhere it is so the violent expression is some level of agitation higher level of agitation people have been talking and talking and the ruling class seem not to be listening so people have resulted to some violent method to draw attention but they are still not listening but they are still not listening so what do we do in closing what do we do the role of stakeholders what should stakeholders be doing now to salvage the economy the security what stakeholders have been doing is what they need to do stakeholders have been meeting and they have been drawing attention of government to the dickheads stakeholders with need just like the lc front is doing we need to facilitate the citizens driven people's driven national consultation and national constitution that's the only way the national assembly must be made immediately to use his powers on that section 4 to bring about a clause a clause of provision the 1999 constitution that cannot allow for a referendum of the Nigerian people the Nigerian people must take back ownership of their country what is foisted in 1999 is the military structure it's still a military constitution and then you have military pull off their military uniform and then put on the garb of that burden so nothing has changed and it will get worse if you go to election this way you must insist on a plan new people's constitution for the country in which case the Nigerian people will have to meet and say this is how we want to live together and then that will become the ground now we need to go unfortunately we're out of time a lot of it is of the NIM the national Nigerian intervention movement and Tango UNICEF is of the national conscience party thank you very much gentlemen for speaking with us I appreciate it alright well we'll take a short break and when we come back two winners emerge as flag bears in a number of skate pdp what's the right for winner we'll get to find out when we come back