 There we go. All right, okay, so we should have a picture coming through here. We go. Yes. Hello, everybody Welcome, welcome to the next or the next. I said the next the second TPE livestream that we have going on so and you may notice the people are here before This is a lot better now. I'm hoping fingers crossed with with with the The the the audio and and the lighting and stuff. So yes, I'm not wearing my big big thingy headsets So thank you everybody for being here once again. It's awesome to have you here and and again new new environment I this is my little my little place. We're still getting settled in so It's a one day. I'll actually get the stuff up on the wall So thanks ever so much for being here and yes, I thought today would be really good to talk about Yeah, why why do all of us photograph? You know, why do we? Why are we compelled to take? photos of Sit what's what can become what seemingly random things? It's a high foyers from from Suffolk Whereabouts and Suffolk though so we're local types and yeah, it's kind of like what is it that moves us to? Take photographs and and and I have to say it I've given it some thought since I kind of rather rashly Said I'll just be the topic for the new for the new video Like why do we why do we photograph and then it rear adorned me that actually it's quite a it's quite an in-depth question and many people throughout You know the world have You know, it's sort of tried to answer this thing through various books or so like you know here We've got John Berger, you know He's kind of trying to sort of say well more understanding kind of why he's sort of thinking about things But there are people like I'm gonna bring it up here It's a you know our old friend Henry Cartier Brisson. He is Making some thoughts about his own approach to photography, you know, and I think you know, we kind of we know about Bull, you know, there was it was it the the decisive moment and things like that But he has a quote here, which I'm gonna read verbatim from the book Which you look excuse me is and my sight is failing me these days He says here my passion has never been for photography in itself but for the possibility through forgetting yourself of Recording a fraction of a second the emotion of the subject and the beauty of the form that is a Geometry awakened by what's offered the photographic shot is one of my sketch pads now. There's a couple of bits and bobs in there, but I Think this is kind of what he is what's getting the Anthony from my own perspective is that he's saying that There is something that is being offered up to us as photographers that only we are Capable of seeing and all of us seeing in our own unique Kind of way and I think that's that's part of the real the real thing here is that I Am certainly moved to take photographs and I'm sure many of you are as well to because We see things that we think nobody else sees and we want to say to people look at my look at this Look at the thing that we saw that is so Amazing it's so wonderful and and that's kind of what we want your setting I would like to share with people and that's kind of I think at the heart of why I took Photographs originally and and I'm not sure I mean it does that sort of chime in with with some of you guys because I see we've got Quite a lot of people we've got Sue here from from north Wales. Hi Sue. We've got Charles from Montreal we've got you know John from Tennessee and we got John from New York City and Sven hi Sven from Germany all of you guys what do you think and Norwich a nice So local guy, what do you guys think? What is what was that a key that really just initially? sparked this this idea within you that there was a world that you could see that you could photograph through this magical box of type thing and It just it something compelled you to do that and and so I'm sorry But um Aronacus 1971 I'm gonna guess that he's he's always sort of drawn and painted and He says that he wasn't until he started taking photographs and that he was starting to Scratch an itch to do things and I think that that's a fair point. I like to draw as As a youngster, I like to you know draw little bits and bobs and stuff, but I never felt that I was a particularly good artist if you want to call it that and Photography seemed to be a nice Bridge between the two because there wasn't a bridge between this and my hand. It was very difficult to To to draw things, but I found it a lot easier to express myself through the medium of photography and then that's probably I think maybe a lot of us feel that way is I think is that a kind of a Is that a common theme that runs through people that we are kind of maybe frustrated? You know sort of I hate to use the word artists. I know we bandied around a lot and what have you but that is It's it's an interesting Thing and I think that sort of ultimately is where we kind of sort of get into is this idea about Somehow we I am certainly frustrated in a lot of things, but not with photography It was an outlet for me that I found to be one that I could get on with if if that is is a good way of saying it you know and and and I you know Tints why am I choosing names at all? TNT 999998, you know he says that that you would say you know photos of painting for people that can't paint It is I think we're getting there. I think that's a very close thing to To to you know where is and in fact in the in the in the early days of photography It was taken up by a lot of painters because they would use it as a way of Doing a preliminary sketch if you want to call it that so rather than having to actually Sit and make lots of sketches of a person or a scene or have it they went oh Here's a way that we can actually just take a picture of it And then later on we can We can sketch from that thing to our hearts content and it is yeah It's it's a it's an interesting thing that I really I Wish that's that more I said that's about so I wish that more people would enjoy photography But obviously all of us here. We do enjoy photography But I do wish that more people who took up photography understood why They did it what was the method as opposed to so maybe chasing an easy I say an easy fortune That's the hollow laugh of somebody but maybe chasing and met away a route to becoming Internet famous which is obviously a completely different kind of fish to really famous and They kind I think if you're if you're taking up photography to fulfill a certain thing that feels like it's kind of a bit odd that To have it as a goal Doesn't really seem to make much sense to me and and I wonder how many of you guys kind of Feel the same sort of thing that that photography as a starting point was Simply a method of expression and then you kind of find out that actually that you either enjoy Immensely the process of taking a photograph or that you find that It's something about it comes naturally to you and and I'm certainly not suggesting that there are people you know that Photography Must be a natural thing and if it doesn't then then you know somehow you're you're not very good at it Which is I think that's an appalling Statement, but it is a thing that I think if you find it Interesting and intriguing then you will pursue it with a lot of passion that you want to because because if you're not if You don't have the passion about it, then then why would you? Why would you pursue something you know if you don't have that passion and But also at the same time if you if you pursue something if you take something up purely With a means to an end like I'm going to make money from doing you know photography or what have you or You've seen somebody then you are gonna Miss out that passion that passion is going to disappear or it's never used to be non-existent to begin with and Your photography is going to be Well rubbish it's it's going to lack something it's gonna lack a It's kind of like I know I use the word soul quite a lot when I talk about photography, but it's gonna lack soul We've all seen these photographs where people Take images that just are Well, they're just like like cardboard and it's and it's it's it's very sad and You know and I'm looking at some of the comments here that you know Van Brinkhaus and and Craig and Soon they're they'll jump up and down and stuff like that is you know They're saying that the artists and they enjoy photography and then there is a certain of course a huge amount of overlap and John Drummond has said you know about so day-guards painting and a lot of the impressionists is impressionists You know, they were heavily influenced by photography and and its ability excuse me Yeah, don't you hate it when something flies down your throat and They were very heavily influenced by the way that the camera saw the world rather than what Artists had said you must see the world You know all of a sudden the edges of the paintings became these fixed frames in so much as like a Frame of a camera is and and I absolutely I love that sort of thing You know about how the two I say I was gonna say two art forms But we have painting and we have photography on on the one hand how they both interacted with each other and You know, it's fantastic, but I see Derek is one of those also who you know, he says he cannot draw paint You know hands. I can't I can't either and and it's just it's It seems the the the general feel of what's coming through The you know the comments here is that for most of us, I think we're frustrated Again, I guess it's easy word artists, but frustrated physical art like like painters and drawers and we also have this idea that You know this side towards screen has said that Capturing images allows me to remember things that are not always around me all the time and then share their experiences and and that touches on a very I Feel an important point that doesn't really get discussed too much when we talk about photography with with a capital P is That for a lot of us our first introduction to photography and the and the power of of the photograph Was at our parents knee which is you know, we sit there and then you know mums and dads and stuff And I don't have a picture around to hand But they would sit then they would talk to you about these people and these photographs who were your family who? Who are your family and you understood at a fairly young age that these photographs? had a power and we talked about this in one of the recent videos with the monochrome memories book and and That's kind of where I started thinking like this is something that was important to me And it wasn't necessarily photography at the beginning, but it was a method of of capturing this feeling of a family of belonging of being of a time and a place and being able to visit that time and a place at A very early age and that has always stayed with me through my photography that I I'm keenly aware When I take photographs in the studio and and things of nature and that's that picture in the back is is one of the studio photographs that I sort of generally take when I'm not doing like proper live shoots and That that lady that I think she must have been about 14 or someone when she went when I took that and she's So now she would be in her very early 20s. Maybe so it's quite an old picture and For her and for her mother that is a record of how she looks at the time and I have met some other people who? photograph who have been photographed sorry and by a very famous photographer in London whose name totally escapes me because it is quite late and Asimov three o'clock in the morning, dude Thank you so much for being here at three o'clock in the morning. And so they've been there were photographed a very famous photographers In London in in the sort of the 40s in the 50s in the 60s, you know the debutante kind of things and They said that was a rite of passage for them that you went and you were photographed by this this particular photographer But they also talk about that photograph being a reminder of all of that stuff that was going on with the dead balls and Things like that and that makes me sound terribly posh So I know the people who are who used to be photographed by society photographers And but that but it's kind of that the point is that that for a great many of us the the photographs Have a power beyond simply the aesthetic or what have you is that they are a keep? They are a a way of preserving a moment that we see and and bringing in What we see in the world and there was a quote that I found when I was looking earlier for this that One of the things that Did I found a quote? I think it was on the digital photography school website or something like that Then it says that our photos are little legacies of the life that we have led Yeah, our travels our experiences food family friends will have you work relationships a morning the each with photograph is a window into a moment and that the the photographs are collections of images that we have taken over the years and they show us who we were and what we valued and That is a great way of summing up. I tend to not be able to sum up ideas too too well But I think that that's a really good Summeration of What for us is a lot of at the core of why we take photographs is because we have a fundamental understanding that? What we see now what we photograph and how it is will have a an echo down the years That will go beyond Our own lifetimes and without getting too mortal and then that's the whole thing There are photographs that we take That may not have that kind of thing but then there are photographs that we certainly do and you know the young lady over here and and somebody was asking about who she is and she was a She was a client who came into the studio and number year goes and and that is Something that I took and then I sold the chair. It's terrible. But anyway, it's one of the one of those things But for her, you know When she goes on to have children and then her children and then her children will have you that photograph Because she does have a copy of that will probably stay with her. It will be around. So when she is in her 60s or 70s or whoever That she will be able to turn to this You know turn to her children or her grandchildren and say this was me when I was your age And what have you and I think certainly as as a professional that has that has touched me deeply that While there are many different types of professional photographer, I Ended up working in family photography and and it means a great deal to me that The work that I produce the photographs that I take of this family right now here this snapshot of them there and Is it take the user with snapshot? But I think you know what I mean. It's like a snapshot in time that It is going to outlast me. It's going to outlast the people whom I photograph It is going to have a place in this family's history that outlives all of us and And I feel that for those of us who take photographs of people and of specific places that that is kind of Getting to the heart of why we photograph is because there's possibly an understanding that The things that we do the things that we photograph the things that we experience and document for People that are going to come after us are are important and And and I think that's a real thing that I don't I don't often Give enough It's going to say emphasis to but that's probably not the right word, but I don't give enough time to Often and I want to say to Photographers who who do want to pursue the the root of taking family photographs and things like that is that you should always Remember that you are creating something that that family Is going to treasure that is an important thing for that family and it goes beyond nonsense marketing You know rubbish these sort of things and and it isn't an important. It's some you know So anyway, so I have to say it's I love seeing all these these comments here and And apparently we have the world's we have the world's oldest photographer here AES 53 who started photography in the late 1060s outstanding dude I love it. Can you have you got pictures of when of when you know, William the conqueror came out? I Think he means 1960s, I'm assuming it's sorry. I'm making the assumption that it's a he but there's a thing. It's great I found it awesome the amount of people from such a wide Yes, a demographic who who watched the channel and And it's great to see that because obviously all of his experience photography in a very different way So so those of those of you who who started photography in the sort of the 50s and 60s when film was quite expensive And and processing so it would have been a very hands-on Affair is is is a different kind of Ketler fish of course to the people who start photography These days who really only have a known digital. It's it's a wonderful Thing and and and I'm I'm seeing a comment is that the poor Humphreys says he says Alex is great encourager and and and I think that's that's that that's sort of cuts to the chase of all the Why I'm why I'm here with you guys talking about photography is that I Lost my way with photography A little bit. I'd I'd be working in the studio. I was getting burnt out and and I was becoming diss Dissenhardt and with photography and I'd forgotten about why why you know Why do I photograph or why did I pick up a camera in the first place? So I'm leaning over the top of my glasses. I take off and and suffer a headache But that that's a whole point, you know, it's I'd lost sign of the white Why do I take photographs and and if we don't take photographs to have to enjoy the process then then you know, we may as well stop and That's just kind of what I The penny sort of dropped to me and over a few years. I was also thinking there are other people I've met many professional photographers who feel the same way that they they They committed themselves fully to the profession and they stopped taking photographs for themselves And that was a very tricky thing, you know, I have a Friend of mine in South Africa and they do Various things and what have you and I spoke to him one day and I said, you know, do you take pictures? Yeah, I haven't taken a picture for myself in in ages. I don't remember the last time and That is is a deep shame certainly for you know From my perspective, it's a it's a it's a it that's a what's missing is a crime. That's a bit a bit hard, but it it's extremely Upsetting and I wanted to say to people who are sitting there going I'm I'm I'm feeling disconnected from what I'm doing. I'm feeling not quite on board and what have you and Is to reach out and say look This this this hobby this this past and whatever you want to call it that you enjoy doing is awesome It is a wonderful thing, but it is so easy. It is so so so easy to get Hemden to get tied into a specific way of thinking and and and to feel that you must do one specific thing and And I and I want to say to people you don't have to you don't have to do this You can do whatever it is that you want the crew and Photography is a creative endeavor and because it is creative that you should be able to express yourself in ways that work for you and and and the feedback that has come from this is Sorry to see in warranties comment about bulk loading film Yep, that the 200 feet of is it turned to feet of 200 meters of of ill food fp4 With a little something so I got a tail off track, but that's the whole thing, you know that all of you Every single one of you takes or has the capacity to take and create Photographs that will move someone that will reach out to someone and today. I was trying to Create a video about what makes a photograph great and and I was really struggling with it it was it it was hard and there was something something about it wasn't quite working and But there was a thing that came out of it that All of us can create something that's great because ultimately we don't as photographers We do not decide whether a photograph is great or not It's not up to us. We can we can do the best that we can but the ultimate reckoning is By the viewer is by the person who sees the photograph because they are the one who will make that final judgment And they are the ones who are right We can only think about a photograph in in one way, but ultimately it's the viewer who makes the Who makes that decision for us and and this is kind of what I was sort of driving at is that All of us are capable of creating something that is great in inverted commas because all of us Have made a photograph At some point that somebody in the world will look at and go Oh my god, that is like the best thing I have ever seen that is amazing Even if you don't think it's such a big deal Somebody is going to see it and go wow that's awesome and and the best illustration that I can sort of Make of this over the videos froze who knows I don't a jitter who's a temp glitch. Okay, the It's it's possibly Our internet's not so great. So it might be that the upstream There we go, let me know if it's come back on there we go. All right, it should be should be okay I'm going to it still says I'm good here and It says I've got a good connection on this side. So are we all good? You know, okay, right? Okay, Clive Thank you for staying here. There we go. I brought a bottle. Um, yes We've got it just a single line here and it's probably my wife So I will shout down the corridor to me that and so it was it. Yes. So we were talking to say and the so I was driving on road trip and I stopped the car so I took a picture in the rearview mirror and jumped on the car and I took a photograph and I didn't really think much of it and I Then printed the photograph And I showed it to the person who I was with at the time And they they looked at them way. Oh my god. I love this photo and for me. It's just gonna be a it's it's it's okay But she was all like up and mode. He was like, wow, this is this is amazing and and it That's an illustration of how we could be dismissive of a our own work But it can resonate with somebody else and this is kind of what I want, you know What to do is there is to to to say to all of you just you know There are People who will shove down your throat the idea that you need to have x y and zed things to be considered a good Photographer or you know likes or everything or how to become Instagram famous or all these sorts of you know How more followers and things like that when ultimately As far as I'm concerned the reason that why I photograph is to please Me and that's a mantra that comes along It comes along so much in this channel is that ultimately you must do what makes you happy It doesn't matter why you photograph So long as you are happy doing that That's kind of reason why I think that We are compelled to pick up a camera in the beginning. Thank you Christopher. That's ever so kind of you Thank you ever so much is that We Enjoyed the process we enjoy whatever it was the alchemy for those of you have developed your own film You know, you remember the whole thing you pick up the glove, you know You look at through the as you unroll the film from the spirals and stuff like that Something about it moves you and it makes you happy about the whole process and that's kind of what I would love for all of you Every single one of you to remember that first and foremost this needs to be fun It needs to be exciting and I have been accused in the past. I say accused of maybe a strong word but by You know some other photographers who have sort of said look, you know, I like what you do I do interesting talks, but you can't be a little bit serious You can be a little bit strokey beard from time to time and and ultimately we should remember why we picked up the camera in The first place and that that was to be fun and and and I have to say, you know, that that Made a note of it. Yeah, no Chris. It was Chris and in LA I think, you know, Chris Kuffaro He you know, he reminded me so like I you know, he says I just want to say I like your videos But they can be a bit too serious, you know, please stress to everybody the photography is fun And we start because it's fun and that is that is the point, you know, this is a fun Thing and it should be fun. It should be fun all the time. So talking about Chris We got Christopher Rodriguez and things and I thank you again for for your for your super chat that that's extremely kind of you and You know, you look at the thoughts and it's not about a gear chasing channel. That is I think You know, one of the things is that there gear has its place. There is a place and a time for gear and This channel is not it You know, I don't really want to talk about MTF curves and things like another picture and because Gear is not I didn't get into photography to talk about lenses and cameras and stuff I got into it because of the same reason that all of us did that we saw something in the world that we were not capable of Expressing through another me that there was a box a thing a device whatever you want to call it that we were given that Allowed ourselves to capture something about the the interest that we saw and and presented to other people and hold it up And say look look at this that this is the thing. I mean, isn't that awesome and most people just kind of went Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, it's all right You know But one or two people went that's really good and you went yeah, cool, you know, so that was That that wasn't really nice and and you know, it's I just I'd be interested to see what you guys I see there's a couple of people talking about necks and John's talking about Stray kids Stray kids thing is a it's like a catchall that I use for academics Rhyme, I don't know where it came from. Who knows right, but if I say it's a strokey bit It's those kind of people who sit there and they stroke their bed. They go mmm. Yes. I know I but how do you consider it? You know, they don't talk of what sort of thing. So It's one of those little little things. I think it comes across better when when you're in in person You know It's lovely as Alan, you know, but you know, he's also saying What's wrong with the Stray kids? It's I think we'll all start wearing a bit if we have a convention We will get together and we'll have beds It's like that, you know, it's um It's it's good. Yes, and and and I think this is the whole thing we talk about and you know Art Lions has said that photography should be fun and and that is that thing this is this is why we do and it is because it is a fun Exercise it is something that is is fulfilling for you know for all of us that When we take a photograph when we see something We can sit there and go. Do you know what? I really love the fact that I have seen something that nobody else has I have managed to pick out a a Feel or a mood or a vibe or shape or whatever from something that in my case I like to shoot suburban landscapes that thousands of people walk past every single day and none of them have seen or To the point that none of them have paid any attention to and and that makes me happy because I Can tell myself that I am I'm paying more attention to The world or whatever and then that doesn't make me an inherently better person because that's ridiculous gossip But it tickles me That I can stand in the crowd and see things that I think that other people or I believe that other people are not Seeing and and if you shoot landscape or wildlife or whatever then you know I think you'd feel the same is that you see All sorts of things. Okay. I just I've been I've been sorry. I've been sidelined Paul Humphries. This is why does your background wiggle and breathe? Um, I don't know. Um, you mean like this this actual background here. Oh I see what you mean focus. Yes. I'm sorry. Um, yeah drums John has pointed it out. It is this this lens this it's a razor Cairo, Cairo something like that. So because there's a big thing of contrast behind me. So you see this line I think that the lens goes hey, I like what's behind you So and because I tend to wonder a lot when I'm talking It's always fun and games though. It's it's technology is sent sent to try it It's um, you know, it's always think You know that that's always something it's Yes, oh Hello, cat lady. Yes, it's a haunted house. I'm gonna boom. That's why the stream went a bit wonky because we have my wife here Hello, say everybody. Hello to my wife. He said the cat lady 74 is my wife. He was down the hallway In our haunted house and there we go. Um, so it is, you know, it's a lovely Thing that we you know when when you walk around and you see things or you know and and and and that's great And and I hope that everybody, you know if you're new to photography, especially if you're new to photography that you kind of realize that the scope for photographs are All around you, right that that anywhere you look there is the capacity to have Great I said great photographs, but the capacity to find interesting Things and you know and I'm sitting here in my room now What you can't see is the other side of the screen and then we'll have it apart from the blankets Because there was it no furniture in this room whatsoever. My wife has christened it the most depressing room in the house That there's nothing however, however, there is scope for for photographs despite the fact that there's an old decrepit Wardrobe that was left by the previous previous inhabitants and also think that I could actually create probably, you know, 10 15 maybe 20 reasonably interesting photographs in him and And that's kind of what you you know, as soon as you start tapping into this idea that there are Opportunities to be used to photograph things around you all the time then The whole the whole thing opens up All of a sudden you you throw yourself off this you throw the shackles off that are restricting you to Why do I photograph because I want to say this thing and I want to say that thing or what have you and All of a sudden you can explore anything that you want to Anything that you want that moves you this interesting You know that it would just and I think that that's something that I really I would if I could do one thing with with TPE if I can in I was about simple if I can encourage people who are new to photography to explore every opportunity to take photographs and to find fulfillment and an enjoyment in this this this process of capturing life seizing it and Shaping it to our wills and what have you then It will be it will be a job done Which is sounds like a like a like a weird sort of thing to say, but that that's the whole point I do you know and It's it's one of things now now John's saying and everything like it's because I'm always trying to get close I don't want to get close You know, this is this is kind of the thing is it's I Want people to be happy taking photographs. I want people to enjoy. I want people to Feel like they're making progress not that somebody The strokey beard types who don't make Clubs right are telling them that their photographs are wrong that their photographs are Incorrect that some of they don't conform to Societal norms if you want to call it that and I don't know that's that That makes me so I don't want to get all kind of bad. So I think but that makes me it makes me annoyed that When you know, and I appreciate my background is somewhat different to most people's that When I was learning photography We were we were given critique obviously and And we would we would there was things that we had to do Specifically like you had to expose correctly and what have you or you had to justify why you'd expose it that way But so long as you could justify why you did it and you could say I can I know that this is wrong or Wrong, you know, whatever then that was okay But these people who dominate certain sections of photography who say you must photograph by the book If it's not in this book if it's not written down here Then you cannot do it. It's like well, I'm sorry, but you know You can't you know, it's an art form. It's ridiculous to say you need to be constrained by these Specific points and if you don't operate within those parameters, then then you can't operate or that it's somehow Heretical That that makes me It just makes me very sad I won't get too much into it because because I I have made a promise to myself that I will focus on positive things rather than slagging off Bad things or not bad things but but being a negative channel because You know, it's one of things so I'm interesting side Things that Paul Humphries has asked Do I dislike a lot of what I take or do most shots work out? And that's as an interesting Question actually and I'm gonna pause for reflection these days. I Tend to keep most of what I what I photograph Probably because when I photograph for myself just off the cuff. I Have an idea about what it's for and because it's not for a specific purpose or if there's just my own edification I tend to Take the time to kind of Compose it and get it right how I feel like I wanted to and it's usually urban landscapes and so not urban landscapes it's a urban What would you call it sort of urban Interest or what have you and it's something that doesn't move and so I can take a little bit of time to To compose a shot that I'm happy with And I've made a point of doing this over the last few years of rather than photographing a whole bunch of the same thing and working around it is to kind of Do previews in my head about the photographs. So usually when I take the photograph It's either gonna work or it doesn't and if it doesn't work I'm kind of go well, is this something or you know, can I change it or is my wife now getting annoyed? She's just like 20 steps ahead of me and I've disappeared taking a picture of a random thing You know, so so I tend to kind of higher have I Won't say like a like a higher Keeper rate if you want to call it that I Tend to like most of what I photograph. However, having said all of them If I put something together, maybe like a photo book or something again for me and my personal benefit I will find it probably about half of the shots don't have any place in it And that's getting into a whole another discussion because I tend to put photographs together to work So once I put together like a 20 page book or something. There's a lot that doesn't get in I don't think that's that's natural for for most photographers. There will be a lot more Discards in the edit process then there will be keepers and that's that's kind of you know So I think a fair thing but yeah going back to your original point about you know, I don't have more sort of keepers and stuff I think once you start becoming a little bit more Focused about where you're photographing and thinking before you trip the shutter then you're this this kind of this rate However, you want to call it that's the photographs that you want to keep Will will increase because you're taking more time to think about it before before you chop Chip shadow Craig. Thank you ever so much for being here. It's been awesome. Yeah, straight beard round glasses And I did I used to have linen specs, but nowadays I have Jimble not jimble they remind me of oh, what's his name? I'm the guy in bedazzled Peter cook as the devil Anyway, um, lovely. Yeah, it's it is a thing. I mean, I think this is a thing I tend to sort of rod a robotic has said, you know about instead of discarding only show the best of the photographs and It's I I tend not to show my work To most people I am as a lot of you may have guessed. I am a fairly A fairly insular photographer in so much as I don't really show my work too much to too many people and the people whom I do show to I respect their their opinions about it immensely and That's kind of what is Is So my driving thing is that I I photographed to please myself and a very small time like like a handful of other people and So maybe that has kind of like shaped the way that I photograph Because you know because I'm taking photographs to please possibly somebody else which I don't know. Maybe I am maybe I'm not I don't he's again. It's a whole it's a whole discussion You know, it's it's it's it's too much But I think ultimately if I did find that I was trying to photograph to please other people first I would have to have a long chat with myself because I don't believe that that is I don't think that's sustainable because It's It's for somebody else, you know that you're taking pictures and that's not we should be doing it for ourselves Absolutely This is jumpy says I can't talk about photography and and I got philosophy Thank you I don't Thank you. I I I have a tendency to Waffle about the art of photography and talking about sort of things But I think this is this is kind of it is useful to talk about John. So Jay savage Thank you ever so much. That was very kind of you. You know, it is it is wonderful to Sometimes talk about Photography is a wider as a wider concept and what it means to us and how it interacts with with our lives I I follow a very interesting YouTube channel called The Daily Stoic it was a guy called Ryan holiday who writes about stoicism and things of that nature and That is a great way because of Thinking about things that he talks about this office. He stoicism and how how it Connects with our daily lives and and I think that that one of the things that is certainly missing in photography It's not necessarily a deep philosophical debate about The language of speaking is you know photographs and and and communicating messages Extremely well visually. Oh, there are useful useful tools, but there's so little just talk about Yeah, well, I why do we photograph? Why are we why are we doing this? What what happens when we actually talk about photography not in nuts and bolts? But the results and and that's kind of a thing that Maybe it's because of my background. I've always been a fairly Inquisitive person who's always looking to have things not necessarily explained but to to understand more about them and And I've always found the conversations that have throughout my life been more interesting about photography have been about The way that it moves us way that it Reaches out and how different photographers different types of photographs Connect with all of us differently and it's a great pleasure when I meet a photographer Who Wants to talk about the photography Rather than what lens do you think they used or what aperture do you think they were doing or you know Which is what a lot of photography talk tends to Gravitate back towards and it goes as good that did the natural conclusion of those sort of discussion Is that you start talking about the philosophy of things and stuff, but I'm glad that you enjoy it I think I really I Love the fact that there seems to be an audience like you guys are obviously here and you enjoy listen to my I say to range rambles about it, but they're not but you know, but The outlet that I think a lot of us crave that we want to talk about the thing that drives us to Pick up a camera the girls about to pick up a camera and use it as a prop But which I don't have I have an empty pep-to-mac pep-to-max bottle, but that's beside the point You know, there's it's that thing that moves us a thing that That drives us forward taking these these photographs now Jay. He's talking about He says, you know, he finds the channel brilliant Taking to the mindset of the photographer and stuff. Okay, and there's interesting that you know You would you mentioned about the mindset of a photographer and it is I think that's kind of the thing that if you want to be able to create photographs like the pros It's that it's not the get it's not the lenses of the processing or anything It's the mindset that people use. It's the mindset that says I am going to photograph this this mug Why have you and I may not really care for this mug? I may not find it aesthetically pleasing or particularly interesting But as a professional I need to make this mug look Pretty awesome, right because that's what I'm being paid to do. So you need to kind of put it on you need to switch on that creativity and a lot of I'm going to use the word amateur photographers here, but you know amateurs who do it for the love of it A lot of amateurs will have to go. I don't really feel creative today. It's I'm just not I'm not in I'm not getting it It's just the mood's not the army And so they won't bother And I think they're doing themselves a disservice by by not Thinking about every single time you pick up a camera You look at something that you want to photograph and think how can I make this thing interesting? How can I take this the kernel of the idea that this this object has given me and make it better? How can I? Not worry about all of the the ways other people are going to think and Make this photograph the very best that I can and how can I always push my photography forward? How can I develop it? Excuse the point right. How can I push it forward all the time and it's all well and groovy to sound enough, you know Try taking photographs today of you know, shallow focus stuff or what? you know a Wide depth of field or you know a telephoto lens is all these kind of things or three-quarter lighting When is every single day you should be setting aside? Oh say, there's a lot of heart and as as a you know as a as a photographer does it for fun Every time that you have a camera with you and you want to take photographs You should either make a decision am I going to experiment? I'm going to test things. I'm going to explore different things or am I going to just photograph for a specific purpose and that's kind of what a Lot of professionals do is in the course of the studio My day I would have days where I would photograph What I needed to that's a family pictures and in those things I wouldn't really experiment too much Except towards kind of the end when I've got the actual pictures in the bag Then I would do a little bit of experimentation Given on the feeling and the vibe that was getting back from the family But when I wasn't photographing for money if you want to be Be rude about it Then I would experiment That was an experiment in many Various ideas certainly in terms of creating something more a bit more painterly There's a photographer called Nadev Kander who If you I'd put him in I'll put his name in in the chat So you can go Google him But he he does some photography this oh wow, it's amazing these these Photographs are just like oh wow his portrait of photography and and I've looked at it and I've gone and gone How how do you do this right because it's got some some odd things going on there that You see Practical effects so there's like little highlights jiggling around in the picture and there's some things and I sort of go Wow, how does he do all this and so I took time from my professional photography to explore those sort of things and I think you should do that as well as a as a as a You know person who's who's taking photographs for love of it if you see photographs that they intrigue you that excite you Take your time to try and replicate them to try and pick them apart because that's gonna help you grow as a Photographer so much more than reading a book or buying a set of presets or something like that that is going to Not in not engage your mind in the same way that doing a practical exercise is going to Yeah, so So we're good. So the one photo took this year though I print but is is a coffee cup so drunk like like coffee cups Everybody's taken all these pictures of coffee now, which I think is It's really good, you know, it's you know, it there's it's interesting Steve mentioned the winner William Eggleston and And and it's funny that you mentioned Eggleston Because if there's something that sums up a lot of photography there's odd For people is they when they look at somebody like like William Eggleston and they go. I don't get it Absolutely don't get it. Why is he photographing this? Because this is weird and The the the story about Eggleston Back when he was was younger that apparently he was complaining to his wife or his girlfriend or whatever and he said This town is ugly. It's horrible here. Nobody. There's nothing to photograph and this this person said back to him, so why don't you photograph the ugly and that's kind of what he went off and he did and that's why He photographs the mundane things and because he finds them interesting now They're not everybody's cup of tea and that's I I appreciate that he's a he is an extremely divisive Photographer he is somebody who is just so difficult to put into a Into into a defined category into a box and saying, you know, just how are we gonna to do this? But he would say I photograph this because I just I like it It's what I what interests me and I think that you know without being too full into it That's what he he wants to do and and we should all take that lesson to heart that he is just photographing what he wants and That's probably good enough reason certainly for for him to do You know to do that and as you said, you know, he's his work could consist of of images or work consists of some images There were things they could probably take But then they never do and that's kind of the whole thing is like that's the thing You know when people say oh my child could take pictures like that But they don't and that's that is such a thing, you know, this is Harry Peter. How's it? How's it Harry Pete? Thank you ever so much. That's that's very kind and I must say Sue. I look I also I like Eddigalston's pictures You know he is I enjoy his photography because what he reminds me of a time and he but he at a place Although I did not grow up in America in the the late 60s early 70s And what have you that kind of feel permeates the memories of my childhood from The 1980s in South Africa. It's I don't know why they should resonate with me Maybe there are some similarities, but that's all things somebody about them. They just they just chime with me and I think that's the thing if you grew up in in, you know Woking or somewhere in in, you know, the southwest of England was not south-west with south-west London and They're not going to resonate with you Right, and and so you would say but they're just they're they're horrible So as Tarsier, I'm really featured on the channel Which is which is interesting. I've really I'm getting very slack on I'm bringing people but I hope you have noticed that I am bringing more photographers back into Into the channel. I'm just trying to find a way that that that I can kind of shoehorn the photographers I enjoy into the channel without Turning everybody off I say is unfortunately we are all at the mercy of the YouTube algorithm and and there are things we can do to kind of Shape it to our will but ultimately And you know, we need to kind of encourage people to click on on videos and and and and then We can sneakily bring in the Ernst classes of the world and things like that So that's kind of where why you may have noticed that the channel Topics have been slightly different recently is because I'm trying to encourage people to watch the videos and then at least when they're here Watching and they're watching the content that we all enjoy They're kind of go wow I am now discovering things that I would never know. I'm being educated but in a fun way, which is just so Steve, thank you ever so much for being here. Dude. That's so awesome. And we've got people from Brazil now and some soul lighter Yeah, John. You see that's that's I think we're talking about, you know people Being reminded about things, you know about his his youth and stuff like that It is there are so many good things that we could spend the entire day Talking about with photography that and but ultimately I think you know if we can If all of us because we are all part of this, it's not just me talking to a camera It's it's a it's a it is a wonderful collection of a Community we are a wonderful community of people who are supportive of people who Who all want the same things from our photography who all of us enjoy Thinking about photography in a way that goes beyond F stops and show the speeds and things of that and and realize is that when we fill in all the blanks So technical is one part and dear gear is another part. We'll have you but when we can do all of them Then they all become so much more And and that's where the beauty of photography is because gear comes and goes and it changes and it's a constant merry-go-round And it's so much shaped by mother gear manufacturers themselves You know every year there's a new camera, but back in the film days. It wasn't like a new camera every every year That we just kind of did we want to I Just I love sharing all this with you and I can't actually explain how Amazed I am that that these Error late videos my spelling is atrocious Then I create touch people like like you so It's so much. I can't believe that I would never have dreamed in a million years That it would have been such a pleasure to to To be able to to to meet and and and chat with so many people around the world who all of us think about Photography in in that in this in this wonderfully beautiful way And I think if we can all just spread this message that it's it's it's a thing that isn't about Likes and shares and stuff It's about things that move us and that hopefully move other people properly as well beyond just kind of you know I like Sort of things like anyway. I'm gonna forget. I'll get too emotional First time and then then the lens will start breathing a lot a huge amount So John's asking about where do I find my photobooks? I'm afraid That for the most part and the answer is fairly boring and it's one that doesn't always try with people And it's actually is Amazon In this day and age there is a lot of Obviously it's easier to get things from Amazon There are a books and and what have you But what I do do is I am very conscious of listening to people talk about things and and specifically I'm gonna hesitate and say a bit older Photographers because they will mention things and if you go through the comments on a lot of the videos People certainly some of the the more sort of the more experienced Photographers have been around for some time. We'll talk about books in a very off-hand way Or they mentioned something in passing and you've got that very interesting and you read these books and Then you realize that this is this is amazing There's a book here because you'll notice I came pre-prepared and so there's a book here called the photography game now It says here what it is and how to play it now somebody mentioned this in passing on a affordable something and it so says is is basically just a discussion about How photography has changed and and you know how the amateur photographer may make the long leap into the professional field now That tells you something about the time that this book was written says the long leap into the professional field whereas of course these days The professional field is if you want to be a professional go buy a camera stick up an ad on Facebook and well, you're professional but you read these kind of books from From my perspective from the long the from the long ago when Which was so when was this published? This was published in 1971 so it's three years older than I am in fact. No, I'm talking. Oh, wow Okay. Yes in 1971, but it's citing things From like Eisenstadt and stuff from 66 So it's a very old book and when you read these things that they will they mention other photographers and things like that and You get you get a rabbit hole that you can then go down you go fall down and you find obvious places like, you know camera Lucida and and ways of seeing and and Brooks Jensen who I'm no doubt many of you are familiar with and But sometimes you just take a fly on these things and if somebody mentions something you got that sounds interesting Ask them where they got that book from ask him about that photographer. These books are obviously all kind of more literally bent They're kind of more Treesies on on photography rather than actual photo books But but the basic tenant is the same if you see something that interests you Explore it and kind of go to is there is there a book? Does this guy have a book? and Sometimes it's a bit of a dead end and they don't But sometimes do and you know, I have obviously I've talked about Amazon and that's probably my go-to for most things but if I am it a Like a second hand bookstore or a charity store or something like that or an antiques place I will go and look what they have now often There's nothing like there's a really big antiques warehouse near us and So excuse me They have no photography books. Not. I saw not a single one is like like what that's weird Like not even rubbish. He wants So I will go and look there and if something interests me then I'll you know Drop a couple of quid on it and and and see see what it has and But most of the time they're kind of they're They're okay So older photography like books about photography like like older books of photography can be a little bit Tweet might be the word Yes, there's not much that you can you can pick from however there are books Especially if you are a professional if you're interested in photography or the business of photography that Have come from a different day and age that are extremely eye-opening and extremely Helpful and and can set you down different parts And I'm thinking about one book in particular that was recommended to me by a portrait photographer in Chattanooga when I was there And he mentioned in passing again, and he said that it's by a guy called I think Paul Gettings called a color portraiture And and I was in America time. So fortunately I could actually find a copy because it's scarce and hence teeth And it wasn't particularly expensive You know, it's like $20. So it wasn't a big deal and And I read that and that book was like wow Wow, wow out for a for a practicing portrait photographer This was a book that was written almost you know, it was written in the 1960s but it covered the period from like kind of 1920 to 1950 1960 and It was like wow that is amazing That's Amazing to read the things and Warren. Thank you so much for being here. It's it's awesome I hope your phone doesn't die die too lot you know, it's And but that's that that's the thing that When we go back, but if you want to improve your photography if you want to take your photography in directions that you haven't considered older books Stuff from even the 80s and the 70s and the 60s is Revolutionary today because it's not something anybody's heard of There was I was I remember being at a seminar or a workshop or something where somebody was talking about Oh Was cross-processing right so for those of you so like back in the day you could take e6 films that slide film and process it And see 41 chemistry says that's negative color negative chemistry and you would get a Negative but the the colors are all wonky and stuff like that And so it's called cross-processing and that was very trendy amongst young photographers for a third time and then I you know We don't really think about it for and then this guy mentioned about cross-processing and it's like you know So well hang on hang on that's that's something we were doing like You know 20 years ago 30 years ago. This is this is not new But the people who discovered it They say they discovered it. We're all like all up in his face. It was like wow. This is amazing, right and That's the whole thing if you want to take your photography in directions that other people are not thinking about you need to Look further outside of the box. You need to go back to the 40s and 50s You need to go to the 80s at all anywhere or you need to go outside of photography because that will reinvigorate how you See photography how you interpret photography where's your where your Where your inspirations are coming from and that's going to make it so much stronger and more Rich I think is a wonderful wonderful We're thinking about that If you've got some Walker Evans has come a work of fiber Derek. Thanks again for being here That's that's fantastic. Now Warren's plugged his camera easy. He's phoning good man. You know, it's it's a thing like that Yes, yeah, that's the whole thing. Yeah cross-processing. It is totally 1980s Yeah, the white doesn't have to be in focus that with a Jesper Who's that written by the name sounds familiar? And and I think the same person who wrote Why your kid could not have shot that or why you're way through your old couldn't have done it That's it, I've not heard of Alistair Ben I shall go and look him up and John. Can you send me an email or something just to remind me about that? Because I will I will totally forget Yes, um Yeah, the Sikari and Sikari Sakiri And yeah cross-processing with you shooting with the Diana's Yeah, the toy the toy cameras. I had to say when I got my my Holger That was like a shot in the arm for my creativity Excuse me It was absolutely. Oh It was like I didn't have to worry about Exposers and f-stops and shuttle speeds and stuff. Okay. It was it was marvelous to just a Photograph without any concern for things and then get this wonkiness back as well. It was it was absolutely lovely Yeah, so I have not heard of Alistair Ben You know which is which is There's a thing yes, we got some some Cartier Brisson is this the decisive moments on a reprint Yeah, it's crazy that the cost of some things No, it's not it's essentially it's a it's a cheap bottle of plonk, which is Plonk being a British word for wine and the So that's completely soundtrack there Yeah, these are you know the decisive history to your books they Because we're obviously I kind of linked to some of the books with you know with the channel and Occasionally, I pick up a book and I go over this is this is I think book people will enjoy looking at and then I go and link to it I'm like, oh my god that that's a lot of money Like this is not this is not a book. I don't want to be saying to people okay. This is like a five hundred dollar book You must go buy the five hundred dollar book. Um, it's yeah, but I wonder what it is about photography books especially by by Reasonably famous photographers that they are there are so few and and most of them are out of print They are they're all just like like Bill Brant recently, you know, Bill Brant is not an unknown photographer and yet Why there's so few books about him why then no Copies of whether new why they're no new ones. I mean is it is it is a rights issue or is it you know Is it something else? But but it just seems a bit odd that there are all these these great photographers who are unrepresent or underrepresented in the monograph world and I think that's a very sad thing because Firstly, you know, I'm a big fan of books and but I but also believe that when you hold a physical book when you look at a book and You know and you can see the pictures on on either side of the page or whatever he says pointing at Prince It's such a different experience to seeing photographs on a screen When when they're on the screen it makes It's not the same experience First, you know, they can be they can be reproduced badly You know when I'm researching the videos and trying to find examples of some photographs. There are some images that are so crazily Wonky in their reproduction is just it's beyond the power and then of course there are pictures that are completely Misattributed and and I've made this mistake in the past and in one of my earlier videos I accredited a photograph to Henry Cartier Brisson when it was Actually a Portuguese photographer and that was my bad I was a complete twit for doing so but another example that Comes up in my head is there's a picture of twins if you Google Dionne Arbus You'll find a picture of twins not the one that she did of the two girls but two twins they've got like kind of big ears and stuff like this and Often that's credited to her but it's not it's a rather ballon picture and this is kind of I you know as I said, I'm guilty of doing this, but I think that we really need to be mindful of of not Taking the internet at face value, which is kind of kind of thing. Um, but this is thing, you know, it's and you know Unica has said there's you know, I think copyrights and things like that. That's probably a fair comment. I did talk with Obi-alba how to who is who was a subject to one of my videos recently and We have a we have a loose connection in so much as he taught My head lecturer at photo school. So there's a bit of a connection. Anyway, so I said to look I've done video but anyway, he wrote back and said look, I've got this new book that was supposed to come out and You know somebody Financed the whole initial print layout and all that sort of stuff and then the publisher Turned around and said there isn't a market For your photography. There is no market for photography books full stop. So we are not going to put it out We are not going to distribute it because it's pointless. We're not going to make any money and and I wonder if that's not the case is that with Possibly some rare exceptions that the majority of Monographs that are published make no money that they they are I Don't want to say vanity projects for a for somebody Because that sounds like that's unfair, but I think that a lot of them are self financed that they are a Limited run of very small numbers. It's like the the the Dan Winters book The art of sale or the road to seeing other My gut feeling on that is that he financed that himself now, I can't say for sure. Obviously, this is all just the disconjecture and hence why there are there are only a few copies of of it available and It's our print and there does not seem to be another print run coming and and that's kind of what I'm sort of thinking There are evidently they don't make any money because if they did then there will be another print There will be another one and another one and another one and so on and so forth and it just it just seems like You're surely in this day and age We can get monographs printed And I don't mean like just cheaply and stuff like that, but but there's quite clearly You know, it's yeah, yeah, don't break us That's kind of the sort of the money that he was talking You know, that's it was I think if we was talking around obviously, but it's it's in that ballpark You know, I think he said somebody had dropped like a hundred and fifty thousand around on it and it was going to you know You know cotton cost sort of similar You know, it's It is a sad thing because I enjoy Monographs and and especially when you see a photographer whose work is is Up there and you kind of go. Oh, I really I wish I could have that or somebody, you know And then you look at the prices of the books and it's like It is unaffordable it you know it I Couldn't sort of somewhat justify spending a hundred pounds on a book That's probably the limit of where I would kind of go that's That that starts feeling uncomfortable spending that sort of money And and it would have to be a book but that I know by somebody like I'm like I bought limited edition Steven Shaw's and things like that Which are kind of approaching that sort of cost But I wouldn't just buy any of it like like the city is a novel as I must say Andrew Shevchenko, but that's a football player. I totally forgot the guy's name, but You know the city is a novel the Russian photographer all long long exposure Images, you know, that's like eight nine hundred dollars, you know thousand dollars and stuff I'm not going to drop that on a book. It's it's you know, it's it's too too much It isn't yet Jay you mentioned you know monograph would be a good thing for crowdfunding and I think yes I think that's probably going to be the future of Monographs especially for kind of let's say the middle of the road You know for talk for somebody who kind of knows what they're doing and has a reasonable following I Think that that seems like a fair Fair place to to be and Again, it doesn't address the issue of wider wider accessibility for photography, you know, if we're looking at stuff because it's it's It's it's Looking at stuff on screen is it's fine, but you need to know who you're looking for It's not the same as going to a library, you know, those of us who grew up Being dropped off from school at a library I'm gonna hold my hand up and and work through our way through all the books on the on the shelves and things like that had access to something that You can't get you can't replicate online you cannot walk a digital shelf as it were and and flick through on And and that's kind of what's missing is That unless you know what photography you're going to look for you're not going to find them You're not gonna find somebody by accident The only way that people tend to find Photography these days is being told or being something like like TPE where you kind of go. Oh look here's You know here's Bill Brant and you may not have heard of these people then you're encouraged to go and look at them and if monographs become a What would you what would you say like a like a rare item like a limited item? Then we're depriving the world of a source of inspiration and and I'm gonna start I'm gonna start getting wax philosophical again in a second. I can feel it coming off again for coming off But a friend of mine in the states her her daughter is going to secondary school high school something like that and she showed me a picture of the Library that She's gonna have access to And I was like, oh my god that for a child's library and it was it was like Lee Friedlander Some Paul Strand and it was I was like big names. They were like wow names I was just like looking at them because obviously they're all in their spine so big like this and I was like amazed that this Child is going to be exposed to all of these photographs But but they could not do that if the monographs did not exist in the first place if they were not made on mass enough For them to be into a library. I think it's a crying shame. Alex. Alex say Alex I Teranko. Yeah, that's it. Good man. Look at him. Look at these There we go. You know that is that's good good call there. Look at the he knows see this is what I love about you guys It's excellent They will all come around and and and help me out. So don't look like a silly Someone said don't get inside about books. Yes, that it's it's terrible. Um, but that that is the whole thing You know, we were talking originally about, you know, why why do we photograph? and and because I'm gonna wrap this this up and so now is Ultimately, I think we've discussed that the one of the reasons why we photograph is that we are Introduced to a community of of like mining people which is sometimes it takes a while to find them But whatever reasons we started picking up a camera the reason why we continue to photograph is that we find people like you and Who we can talk to we can share this love we have a common love for a process we all interpret it in different ways we all think about Photography in in from different perspectives, but ultimately When you pick up all of us when we pick up a camera and it does not what that camera is we see things we see the world as We want to see it and translate and that's how we want to see Speak about the world and we can come together as as a community and share these photographs and Amaze other people and be amazed by what other people how they see and interpret the world differently That's what keeps us photographing is this constant wonder that we love what we see but we love what we do it's It is just I can't imagine a world in which I wouldn't take Photographs of some description of something Every time and I think you guys are probably The same I think all of you you know that you you take Images because you are compelled to do so you're compelled to share the world or to share with the world The way that you see it and that's that's the beauty of thing And I did it really didn't think that it was such a strong feeling within people until I started You know working on TPE and meeting people like yourself who are just Just it's wonderful. I get a get what Terry Stuff like that, but it is it is absolutely beautiful, but it has been wonderful to spend an hour and a half talking to this little Circle thing here that connects me with people all over the world I really I cannot stress enough how wonderful it is to have People across the across the globe and it really is across the globe Sit and and come together Which is an odd way of saying because you can't sit and come together So you come together and then sit or you'll sit and then maybe we just move the chairs in anyway you know who come together and Have You know it helped all of us. No, you know, I a lot of people you know, you guys have said, oh, you know I love what you do and you inspire me The same is the same comes back is I Have learned more about Photography and I have learned more about my own photography and how I feel about photography in the kind of the almost 12 months that I've been running TPE then I had maybe like the last 10 or 15 years of My career it has been such a learning Curve it has been and in a positive way has actually been a period of growth and Development and and I thank you guys because without you That would never have happened that would be I would be sitting here Twitter my thumbs like having for the last five years going I really should have a YouTube channel really should do YouTube because I want to talk about photography You're making it all happen so thank you ever so much from the bottom of my heart and and I'm off on it's now half term So I have some videos coming out next week But I'm going to take a little bit of a of a break and what have you and and if you guys are up for this I'm happy to do this next Friday again We can think of some some topics that you may like to discuss feel free to to pop into the the comments below You know if there's something You know a secret photography we can look at life that might be might be interesting or that big pile of time Not time life and the big pile of of Leica International Photography magazines that mysteriously appeared in my garage outhouse thing Which was Sort of funny and attend it was my dad Who dropped them off without telling me Wasn't just another thing. Anyway, thank you ever so much guys. It's a Tonya. Thank you. It's been awesome to have you Nicholas, thank you ever so much. How's it bro? You know, thank you for your present. I've got 36 J I haven't but I am going to put something together as a kind of Like little groups of things within the next month or so So if you guys are interested maybe like a little bit of a one-to-one or a smaller group Actually more hands-on practical thing about sort of doing exercise about so please do drop me a line The email is on the channel homepage or drop a thing in the comments below. I'm happy to reach out to you And yeah, it's it's been great. You know, it's there's also you're John Thank you for being here with the whole thing a gene Martin There we go. Thank you ever get mistaken for Dean Martin. Do people miss he or your name and Warren it's been great. I think weren't were you the same Warren who gave me the heads up about you know audio and stuff for the For the stream last time, thank you ever so much if you were it's been great And I'm gonna let you on a little secret. I'm gonna show you behind the scenes I'm gonna hold it. So this is that the nonsense that I have to video in When I'm when I'm here. So you sort of seeing seeing what's going on It's always it was it to break the fourth wall So I've been sitting in in what I call my layer With my wife, which is like why are you hiding behind blankets? I've said because the sounds awful So there we go. Anyway, thank you guys ever so much. Have a wonderful weekend. Enjoy your Friday if your ride is coming My Friday is now Put but yeah, it's been great. Please do there's a couple of videos There'll be a video dropping on Monday and then Wednesday and Friday Looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to the next live stream. Thank you ever so much for being here It's been awesome and have just a wonderful thing and the reverse of whatever house of the house it is So right see you later guys. Thanks ever so much