 All right, so this is the build OGM call on Tuesday, December 28th, 2021, the last such call of this year, which is strange. And I would love to explore a bit Stacy. We were talking yesterday and she put a thought that that marries up nicely with a thought I've been having about. And then hers was motivated partly by looking at me struggling to get four episodes of the weaving the world up and do well you know do the back processing, and I've been completely hijacked by a move. We're in. This is this is new digs this is. There's just stuff on the ground we were expecting actually our first house guest last night, a teenage friend of friends who had their pastor town but his flight got canceled so they didn't make it. Anyway, this is kind of the office space in our, our new digs. And I'm now we now have a stable household them can kind of walk around and function we have nice fast Wi Fi all those kinds of things are working. And partly also, and this this has to do with the conversation with Sam. There's a lot of moving parts here that if we find the right combination of parts and people are eager to jump in and start to play with us in a good way, like good things could take off. And so, I think one of the feeder conversations to this is the term composting and me calling this the secondary calls composting calls which just wasn't working. And then me borrowing from mapping parties which is what open street maps does to think of maybe like they're weaving parties. And if we can have like weaving parties where people come together with tools and do stuff. And then think of these as teams that are on scavenger hunt to solve clues or aspects of whatever topic it is we're looking at. And, you know, organize up somehow like that. I don't know. Stacy if you want to riff on that. Welcome to hear it. But the idea is, can we play with format and structure some to make this. I don't know to not to not be limited into to sort of lift what we're doing in a different direction, not the same direction but in a different mode I guess. Can I make any sense Pete. Kind of yeah. I think you want to hear from Stacy first Stacy's Stacy's liking where the conversation is but not jumping in. So I'll just, you know, I'll just throw in the ideas where I said to Jerry I sort of like sort saw a space in between a school and a community center. Where like OGM is creating a space where somebody doing a podcast like Jerry is doing right now he's the prototype for it could come into that space and there are different people that are working on similar thing. They go, they have the technology but they go where their interest is based on the conversation. But then it's sort of overlaps because we're a social community. So there's you know the conversational part of it but then there's the written part of it. I see us we're like the conversational place I mean people come to these calls they want to be here. And I think we should capitalize on that. I just suggest to Jerry that maybe we take some of the production money, and at least get one person who's not just doing the production work, but teaching others to do it, because there may be people that want to want to learn how to do that work. It's almost like an internship program. And, of course, you know we may, there may be things that I don't like about the internship programs and you don't like, but if we used it correctly and it wasn't just using people. It was actually giving something back with an opportunity to maybe do more. I think that could be a good thing, and it could lift the weight off of one person in particular, and also give an opportunity for other, you know, if somebody in OGM, you know, maybe, maybe Klaus wants to do one session. There'd be people here to help him. And through that, I just think, you know, we'd get synergies going, but at least. And partly Stacy was noticing that like Gil was saying gosh I could really use help with, you know, production sort of things. I mean, I don't think he said those words specifically but. He actually did in the post. Good yeah. So, so like Klaus and Gil and others. If there were, if there was a crowd of people who started learning how to use the tools and were helpful that could work. So it's kind of a crowdsourcing video production slice of our activities I think that you're you're describing. One of the problems with it is that it's really hard to be complete and to do good work when you're doing piecemeal, like small pieces of volunteers who are at different levels of training. Because you don't know what somebody finished and where somebody picked up and what got done, what isn't done, etc. It's hard to manage that. But I like the vision a lot. I recommend having at least one person who's paid to do it because it's their ultimate responsibility to make sure it all gets done. Right. Which then becomes kind of a semi staff person. Yeah. The crowd stuff sounds like a phase tooth kind of thing. It sounds like a complication, not a simplification. And managing a bunch of people to still get the same work done. Well, that and it means finding a bunch of people and motivating them and, you know, Well, it's also new people, I think, because Stacy, I'm not sure how many of the people who show up regularly for any of the OGM calls would be up for that task. So really, these are these are new folks, new people. Yeah, that we don't have in the in the conversation at this point. Finding finding people is a big deal. Yeah. You see, and, and I don't, again, with the opportunity that I'm thinking about. I think, I think just on Facebook, I could find people that are really smart that come from those different sectors that we keep talking about we want to bring people in. I think I can at least at least a few I think I'd be able to get. So what's the, what's the problem we're trying to solve again. Go ahead, Stacy. Well, to be honest, the problem I'm trying to solve is that Jerry doesn't have to sit doing something he really doesn't want to be doing. That's how I mean I want you to be able to do the stuff you really want to do the parts of it. Yeah, and, and using the script to do the editing is actually reasonably enjoyable and I've done transcription and it was incredibly time consuming. And also there's a piece of having participated in the conversation and understanding the topic that's really important to the transcript. Because there's a bunch of stuff that's in it that's kind of coded that's easy to misunderstand, you know, in the case of Jesse's call about NFTs in the market and proper nouns that just get, you know, that the translator has no idea about what the script, the engine doesn't know about. So, so somebody with some pretty good domain knowledge kind of needs to be in a loop. So I don't know so I think partly I picked up a, I picked up a project that requires that kind of work that I just need to sit down and find time to do. And then, and then, once I've gotten through the four calls. And it's like, like stand up look around. And I think, Pete, you've been sort of saying let's just do this manually for a while to see what what actually requires automation. And automation also meaning outsourcing or crowdsourcing or whatever. It may also be that paying a professional transcription service two bucks a minute to do this out of the budget might be a fine way to go. Okay, you know, feeding a transcription service the proper nouns that happened in this episode that we noticed before the episode probably turns out a pretty good transcript. I would do that. If the chance transcription time is a problem I would just pay for professional transcription, either the descriptive white glove or rev.com. That would be right I think feeding them a vocabulary would help along. Yeah. You're going to hear these words. So let me ask a different question. Well, two things. First of all, I was struck by the fact that you said you kind of enjoy it, because other people might enjoy that too. So if we're if we're going to pay, I'm wondering if there's a way to negotiate with Descript to get that free service and then we will highlight, you know, we'll be providing, you know, will be, I mean it's sort of like when you wear a company's t-shirt, you know, it's like you're advertising for them so I mean it wouldn't cost them anything and they could be getting exposure. Maybe we should look to work out some kind of agreements like that with software like Descript. Yeah, it's a possibility, but our audience would have to consist of more than dozens of people coming in because there's no value at this point to our audience. If we had a huge audience if we were Joe Rogan probably gets things thrown at him to go use on the show. And that takes somebody to go negotiate and say hey would you like to do this and so forth so I like it. But you know, we can also I can also find out whether Jim Ratt or someone else would like to, you know, continue funding because this would eat money and we could do it that way. Oh, I had a different thought. Oh, I wanted to go back to the other thought that you were having Stacey which was school meets sort of civic center or activity centers and like that. And because I think that's a, that's a different. You're trying to solve a specific problem which is sitting in the middle of us which can be solved in the ways we've been talking about right here. But there's that there's another rapper problem which is like, what is the dynamic we want to have in the group, and might be that interns or volunteers or other people aren't actually coming in doing the editing of episodes I like that a lot, but they're doing something else and they're doing productive work in the weaving and they're learning to we like, like, if we taught weaving. In the sense we mean weaving here weaving slash composting slash mapping slash whatever we call it. If they could apprentice into a group to a community doing that. That's unique. They're not a lot of places and people doing those kinds of things. You just muted yourself by accident. You're making a call. Otherwise has to stuff is good. I think I would get some more assets built before trying to trying to off road. Well, it's funny there's it's it's there's a lot of trying trying to simplify things but it's simplifying by complicating rather than just, you know, right. The presenting problem is not difficult and spending spending cash to get, you know, one transcript done. Will either work. And then it's just cash it's not a lot of cash in the grand scheme of things, or it won't work and then and then there's another problem to solve but so it occurs to me that the four calls I have two of those are actually OGM calls, the metaverse and metaverse calls. It occurs to me what I should do is submit the Daryl Davis call for professional transcription and just try that out. Yep. Right, because I'm working on Jesse, I'll finish Jesse, I'll get through it. I'll get to our multi party calls with lots of complicated sort of back and forth and cutting off and so forth. I will take a swing at those but the easiest of all these to get professionally done is Daryl. And that'll give us like how much did it cost how long it'll take how good was the quality that'll, that'll burp right out of that one. So I think I think maybe we try to script white glove. And see what that does, because I've got a descriptive count and I can, I can, you know, I can submit it. That makes a lot of sense to me. Sorry about the part I missed. Just going back to before I got that call. Yeah. You were talking about bringing the interns in and I was on the OGM email list somebody mentioned about lurkers. Did you I don't know if you read that. Yeah, so as a lurker. The thing is that sometimes putting people in a space, not really defined why they're there. They wind up realizing why they're there and moving towards so I'm more about just bringing people in proximity. So I'm a big fan of lurkers partly because long ago in an early paper. A team vendor and Jean Leib wrote about legitimate peripheral participation, which is like a terrible acronym but a really good descriptor, which says that lurkers are at the periphery of conversations they're just kind of listening. And every now and then they jump into the middle and take a turn. But because they heard something that was like, Oh, I know about this I can help with this that's whatever. And part of the job of a host or facilitator or creator of an online space like that is to put enough sort of juicy things and to goose the conversation and take it in different directions, so that people actually find the things that they want to jump into. Right. So, so I, that's kind of how I run things and I'm trying, you know, part of the reason I'm exploring issues by saying well what about this what about that. Part of it is that I'm just a pattern finder and I like to do that. But part of it is, at some point we're going to hit a couple things were a small group will split up and say hey that's interesting enough, and we seem to share a passion about this that we'd like to go do that, and then flush it out and bring it back, and say this sort of thing, and that's happening a bit in different ways. So, so love them lurkers. Pete you're having a thought. Just looking up by legitimate peripheral participation in the book there of. Yeah. Oh good. I didn't have the, of course I have the term in my brain but I didn't know it had a Wikipedia page now so in the thought. Okay, so the term legitimate peripheral participation I put in my brain January 13 1998. Which means it was within the first month of using the brain. That's kind of fun. And I think they also in the in the book talk about boundary documents. Is that the right. Is that the same. I don't know. Might be that might also come from john C. Brown and do good and social life's information, but I'm not sure. So boundary documents are like in. And now we have a lot of them because we have mirror boards and Google Docs and all that kind of stuff but back in the day, you know you'd have a trading desk that would pass the book to the to the night shift that would be located in Asia that would pick up all the trades and the open balances that that trading book would be the boundary documents so it had to be written in a way that was understandable to different groups of people using the same information for some important tasks. That's maybe two that's maybe too restrictive a definition of it, but boundary documents are things that operate across groups as holders of content meaning whatever memory. So that's another another really interesting term, like a summary. During the day, sort of well more like a working document like a like an, like an important thing that we're using to get our work done together. And Pete, do you know that Jean laves ex husband was my professor my favorite professor at Irvine. No. Yeah, so Charlie lave was an econometrics professor. And that's how that's how I did econometrics in school. And you'd walk into his office and it was it was like a disaster zone. There was stuff piled everywhere and he had a really gruff demeanor to people he didn't know, which was a really excellent defensive tactic to avoid having his time wasted. And then once you got to know him he was an absolute pussy cat. So, anyway, early mentor. Boundary document reminds me of boundary object. It also reminds me of my neck calm days when the boundary document was a mud that customer service reps used for persistent. It's like the ship's log. And boundary object itself has a wikipedia page and comes out of Susan Lee star. Pardon, and Christmas. Cool. I don't have Christmas. Can I share something unrelated to what you're saying. But of course, I, before I got on this call I posted something. And I said, Hey, friends, if you could help me to confirm something I've been thinking about I'd appreciate it. Can you just post yes no or unsure as a response to do you understand what the metacrisis is, thanks in advance. I've already gotten a lot of answers only been a few minutes but what do you think most people say. Good question. I would say yes. Well, the answer is no, which is what I expected and the reason I asked that question is so I sent you the podcast with Daniel Schmackenberger that I listened to this morning. And the first question you know the first thing he starts talking about is this metacrisis. And I was like, people don't know what that even means. And I just wanted to verify so except for like Brian, who said yes that's how I met you. The other people like unsure I don't know, no. And these just every basically most of the people that answer really smart people. Metacrisis is a generic term though so the metacrisis is kind of an odd. I don't think they know what either one means. And my point is that I, and this is something I keep trying to bring is we're asking like, first we have to get on the same page of what we're even asking for. You know, when we're all in like the same community and we're used to the same language, then we kind of know what things mean. But for somebody brand new coming into a different bubble, things that we take for granted are not really as obvious as we think. Why are you laughing. Which, who are you asking. I'm just saying, having had to live through just observing for so long and trying to figure out I mean even with Sam yesterday. I had to, and I know him really you know we know each other pretty well and I was like, tell me though, what is it specifically that you want to accomplish. And I heard the answer for the first time in after years of knowing him discussing this. And to him he thought it was obvious. No, let him share when we have a call. Cool. That's great. So I'm reminded in an odd way of a movie don't look up. And I watched yesterday. Oh good. I, it's, it's incredibly clever satire. It's extremely clever, extremely well done. And, and so it's enjoyable to watch the satire and the, you know, the director Toriel choices and the actors doing their parts and it's very unsettling to watch the whole thing, because it's a satire of the state of the world. Our previous president and then also with the the dissociation between facts and beliefs. And it's like, it's kind of disturbing. So it's odd having something that's kind of it should have been enjoyable, but it was mostly, you know, at the end of it is like, my stomach kind of hurts. We had a good conversation about it yesterday on the free Jerry's brain call, where a piece of what a piece of the conversation was what the hell is going to convince people to take action on climate change, etc, etc, on the metacrisis right. And it was like, is it satire like that is that going to make people uncomfortable enough or will they even make the leap and get the connections. Well, they just see it as a flaky disaster brewing. You saw it too right Jerry. I've not watched it yet it's on my in my queue. You'll enjoy watching it and you'll also be very comfortable. Yeah, exactly. That's how it feels. Interestingly enough and I said this on the call yesterday and now it's been confirmed. A big segment. I'm watching on Facebook believes that this is about climate that the movie was about climate change, as I believe it was. But as I suspected, another big portion of the people watching the movie think it's about politics and the media. I mean of course it's about all those things. It's really interesting. So when I hear somebody say is this going to bring awareness, you know what's going to wake people up to climate change to some people watching it. That's not even what the movie was focused on. And some people think that Meryl Streep is playing a Hillary Clinton character. Yeah, I shared that with you because somebody had commented they were annoyed that it made Republicans look bad and I was like, Why do you think they were Republican. There's a picture of her with him with Bill Clinton. And when I was talking to my more libertarian type of friend, he said, Oh, we know that's Hillary. So it's just really funny. Her reader is a combination of Trump and Palin and not Hillary at all. Exactly. It all depends on that's the point. Yeah. Can she see Russia from her backyard. She sees interest. She sees and doesn't see interesting things. Cool. I look forward to gritting my teeth and seeing it. I mean, I mean, intelligently delivered satire is really good. Okay until after the credits because if you're somebody that closes after the credits, you missed the last scene. Good. Thanks. Thanks for that. You're welcome. Good to know. So we've got a couple calls that up other sorts of things I've got to sit down and do some some work on finishing Jesse and plowing through I will I will go figure out how to submit Daryl through white gloves. So I'll get that started. That makes good sense. And what else should we talk about in this build those GM spirit call does the poll you want to create fit in in any way. Yes, absolutely. So in a conversation last week. I thought came up that I should construct a poll to send anybody and everybody who's seen my brain watch me use the brain or whatever, just to try to figure out. And I don't know exactly what questions I should I should start a draft of what questions to put in the poll. So it's not too long but so it gets actually to some of the issues. But is it useful is it useful with me without me. So we're getting right now what other questions I wanted to ask but just like to get a state of what's up because I have no idea whether, you know, given 100 people who ever who've ever witnessed me using it. Is it is it five who are like wow this is awesome or is it 30. And if it's five that's a really different sort of state of the world for me than if it's 30. Right. And if it's 60 that's an awesome state of the world. So I need to figure out what the diagnostic questions are to do that. Stacey thanks for bringing that back into attention because I think I think I've never run that I've been using the damn thing for a quarter century now like next December is an actual quarter century, which is a real long time for a human to do something. And not know much about it and then the brain has never given me any kind of stats on usage. I have no idea if it's eight people coming in or 8,000, none. They couldn't connect, you know, Google Analytics to it because I would love to have a Google Google Analytics page looking at, you know, patterns and what's up. There's a whole bunch of stuff I'd love to instrument the software with but isn't there. Pete, do any questions arise for you. I think the first first you might want a CRISPR understanding of what you're trying to find out. Yeah. So, partly I'm trying to find out where's the pony like where's the use, is it useful and how and where and why and in what sense and what do what do people think it does. I'm probably wondering a little field already, and I'm only two sentences in. One of my amateur theories about perception and memory and mapping and all that kind of stuff is that different tools work really well for different people and that there's some set categories that I don't know that anybody's gone out and tested or studied, but some people like folders, like lists, some people like outlines and just work entirely outlines. I happen to like the brain other people like other other kinds of tools that just work for the way our minds work. And I don't know if those are mutually exclusive and not very compatible, or if they're just different manifestations of a similar kind of thing that show up differently in different places. I think it's pretty easy in many of these cases to squish things down. The brain has an outline view, for example, but I never ever ever use. It's not pretty, but but it's squishable, or what so I think I think a piece of this is a broader poll that I don't want on or take, which is, which of these different things appeal to you and you know, I would love to find some cool designer who's who's run a study that says of all the different categories of tools here's how we classify them and here's how people seem to fall out. That would be great. I've never even done a Google search on that. It's a higher level question than I'm, than I mean to ask you specifically about my use of the brain. I was going to say, I've kind of wondered similar things. And I think a lot of the tools that we have are constrained enough and removed enough from from what you really want that I think there's kind of a path dependent way that you end up with a tool that you're comfortable with. Because none of the tools are very, very usable. So, you know, somebody, somebody got to understand outlines really well or got to understand wiki is really well or got to understand the brain really well. It's partly because you know the underlying schema makes sense partly because the UI and the UX is, it's comforting or, you know, familiar or they know somebody else used it or whatever. So you have to sit with the tool long enough to kind of get it to stick and then. And once, and once you're invested in it in the sense of you put a lot of data into it, if it's not easily exported not you know it doesn't move to anything else easily. You're kind of hooked just through inertia, just because you got assets in there, right, and they're hard to get out. And there's the even on top of that. Even if the data is exportable. You know if you're hooked on outliners, it's really hard to pick up a wiki and if it's if you're hooked on wiki is it's really hard to pick up an outliner, even if you've got the data. There's another phenomenon on social media for groups, which is that lots and lots of groups have medium high functioning conversations in really old tools. Because it's really hard to leave a tool as a group, much easier as a human like if there's like one mass exporter if you have to just cut over and do something, you know, a personal switch tools, and over. I can point to the long period of time when I was at New Science when everything was in hypercard. I had my address book my calendar, my, you know, my to do list, all those things were in hypercard stacks, and I could program in hyper. Thank you. I could program lightly in hyper talk and make things happen. And it was really like, you know, if they had added URLs to hypercard, the hypercard could have been the web. But they had idiots at the at the control panel. Anyway, and then I can point to a period where I was using echo then I can point to you know switching over to something else. And then I have errors of different tool use until I hit the brain, and it eats a whole bunch of things, but it doesn't eat my email it doesn't get bunch of other things that I still do. Anyway, trying to keep trying to scope in where the pony is it's like a way of describing it where's the value and to whom, who sees the value who gets it. Maybe even what do they think could be done with it or or something like that just I think ending with an open ended question that says, you know, if this if this poll is making sense to you so far. What's the best possible thing that could happen to to this would be an interesting question to end with. Nobody walks through a discussion of that those kinds of topics with a few people like me or Mark and twan or, or Stacy or and probably get a lot of information and that might help you. So I think, you know, the top line thing for me is, I would guess that. Well, the top line thing for me is distribution, what I call distributions of distribution just awareness and knowledge of the brain at all. So my guess is very few people have ever seen it and very few people have, you know, gone seen more than one page of it. You'd be surprised how many humans I've run into said oh yeah yeah yeah I tried that once long ago. And they're like, they're like familiar with the brain or the brain specifically no not mine. Oh yeah, but a lot of familiar with the tool. Yeah, a lot of people familiar with the tool I think very few people are familiar with your, your brain. Yeah that's kind of that's limited to my my wanderings I think, and I have no idea how much reach it's had beyond anybody I've contacted meaning I'm getting no stats I have no I have no way of figuring out who downloaded the app and the app store and used it and was happier who who access the web server website and was happy so no no clue. The easy fix. Well, I don't think I think I don't think Google reaches into the into your brain and the fix for it is to help Google reach into your brain. Well which is one of the reasons for GM which is externalizing my brain then means it's Google searchable and then we're often off to the races. Yeah. You should just export it to you should just like brain the whole thing. All right. Well, I can also kind of, I think what the pony is. I think there's two ponies one of them is not particularly useful. It's just the interconnection of topics. So, most people don't really use graph, like a graph. Most people don't use a graph to do anything with. So, the graph is a little bit useful probably to to other graph databases. So, like whoever owns a graph database open site or sorry, not open site closed site. And, you know that the Google plaques whatever. So, they're not an acquisition mode so they don't really care, except that if you made it, you know if you made it spiderable by by search engines, Google and Bing and whoever else. But that was Laura, Laura and suggestion was to use it as feedstock for somebody else's knowledge system and find somebody who's doing that like deep mind or somebody else. Yeah, the weird thing is, they've probably got most of the connections already. And they're not in the habit of absorbing. Because there aren't that many things to absorb. Yeah, and they clearly would have a better mapping of Congress critters actors and movies, authors of books, all that stuff that's that's, you know, obvious and canonical out there they should have hoovered up already. Yeah, through IMDB or Goodreads or whatnot, where what they wouldn't have is that any sort of opinion threads or narrative threads that I've woven in, which are more dependent on me. So, so then I think that's the real pony, the real pony is the animation that you can give to the graph. So, and that's, you know, we don't get much of that. Somebody's on our roof pushing snow off the roof I can hear their footsteps and I can see snow falling outside the window. Since we're on the seventh, the seventh floor is the top floor now. I'm like, wait, what's that noise and it's like somebody's walking over my head. I think it's Santa and reindeer. I did not hear jingling, however. Nor do I see a glowing red light. Well, it's after Christmas, so they have to be kind of stopped. That's true they're kind of off duty. We have a so one of the symbols of Portland is the white stag neon light that's right on the Willamette, not an old mill. And in winter time around Christmas time they put a red, a red, a bright red nose on it so it's really pretty cute. The stag was a brand I think of flower but I'm not sure. I've got my green. Did I miss the second part this thing. Okay. Two ponies interconnection. Did you was that both ponies or was that two ways to describe both there's a there's a graph and then there's the stories that Jerry has embedded in the brain that aren't actually part of the brain database. I don't know if YouTube videos or, you know, pick my brain or whatever, but they're not. So it was hunting gear. Outdoor gear hunting gear sports where white stag he was vice was and it was started by Harold Hirsch Hirsch means stag in German. And so here's the white stag sign, which previously was a white satin sugar sign before it was a stag. It was a little bit of Portland trivia. So, white is also white. Yeah. So we don't know any game show producers in OGM, like people from television. Yeah, who do we have that might like to do game show kind of thing. I think if we were say hey let's let's prototype a game show I think five people would poke up and say I'll try but I don't think any of them would have experience doing that. Because that's what I see Jerry's brain perfect for. And I think it could be more than just entertainment I see it as a look to me that's crowdsourced learning. Yeah, and partly the conversation that Stacey's provoking which is like what are different formats for doing this is really interesting to me because I think that a piece of what we're what we're near but haven't really stepped in is what would be a different than useful and fun to be doing this work together and and and you know digesting the elephant. Right, but doing it in a really fun way. And it smells like scavenger hunt it smells like quiz show or trivia show it smells like debate with Pogo sticks. It smells like wipe out. Right. Remember the show the Japanese show wipe out. Did you ever see did you ever watch it. It was this weird ass obstacle course that they would send contestants contestants, God love them would run out across these obstacle course and get just like by paddles padded paddles strikers, whatever's and you know one of them would be like a big cross that's spinning like this and you have to jump over them, except you don't this really sort of no place to jump and then you fall into like a mud pit, or a water pit and you know that that that that's how the contestants end. And it was just like really funny, funny to watch, and then there was an American version of it. If I'm sure it started in a way from the funny to watch stuff. Yeah, that you know that's especially when somebody else is in pain as they like fall into the mud pit. Yeah. So maybe wipe out was a bit too far. Yes. I'm just trying to think more broadly about what the format is, because right now, part of the reason to stand up a podcast is that it is a known format, and there's the thing that people can go Oh okay there's a podcast but there's something else going on behind the curtain. I'd like to find out what that thing is, and it turns out that the party behind the curtain, maybe the weaving party at this point is actually really fun. And, and you know, people joined open global. People joined open street map, partly because they somebody had been involved in mapping party that said hey come with, and then suddenly they were on the road in their town, driving around and they were coming back learning something about uploading to a database it was all, it was all functional fun that delivered a collective asset, a huge collective asset. Right, which Google did by forcing the function and hiring drivers and doing it in a systematic way, because they had the budget. They thought big, who thought that you could map all the streets on earth just about. But who had that thought. Amazon. Yeah. Well, Amazon just needs to instrument the trucks right. They started the street view before Google. Really. Yeah, I figured what they call it is a is the something. Oh, wow. So let me let me take a swing at drafting poll, and then put and Pete like you said, you know, float it through a couple of our planning calls and see what people say to improve it or change it or whatever. That sounds good. Cool. Go ahead Stacy. Pete is there a time in particular that you'd be free for that call because I want to try to schedule it. Which, which are the calls you mean now. With the one with Sam. Yeah, if it could be either after work or weekend. I am reasonably flexible. Give me give me an idea of what you prefer. We can. Well actually I don't have a preference. Okay. I think that's probably inconvenient. Well, put it this way, if it's, if it's a weekend, is it better earlier later or middle. I'm probably probably like mid morning. But it doesn't matter too much. Okay. Good morning or mid afternoon. My Sundays from 10 to noon or out otherwise my weekends are pretty open. Okay. I'll, I'll do an email. And then I will loop us together to talk to set up a call with me. Yes, yes, please. Groovy. Great seeing you. Thank you very much. Cheers. Bye for now.