 Okay. Community Matters. I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Think Tech. And the handsome young fellow is David C. Farmer. He's a lawyer and he's the president of the Screen Actors Guild. That is something local. And so we're talking today about filmmaking in Hawaii after COVID. This is a very important discussion because it has a lot to do with Hawaii's economy. Welcome to the show, David. Thanks so much, Jay. Great to be with you. So there was an article in the advertiser a few days ago that was really, really interesting and provocative about the notion that although we suffered greatly in terms of filmmaking and film, I want to say income to the state over the over the time of COVID. At some point, I guess in the summer, September of 2020, it all changed. And instead of being afraid, Hollywood came to us as never before. Can you talk about that? Well, yes, like the visitor and hospitality industries worldwide, entertainment, performance, live, taped, whatever was totally decimated by COVID-19. It was destroyed. And, but, you know, speaking domestically, there were early efforts to on the one hand from the performers point of view, make given the COVID situation to make safe sets a priority and to examine more of the streaming portals for getting the product over to the public. And, you know, there's that Jim Morrison song about, I think it's Writers on the Storm has that lyric about an actor all alone and the basic, there's this pent up demand to consume this stuff. But when you think about all of the actor energy in this globe on this globe, what does it perform, you know, to be otherwise an actor all alone is got with no audience, nothing, right? So there's a pent up demand on both sides of the screen. And it would not be denied. Well, it's interesting, you know, you mentioned that and immediately what comes to mind is Broadway, Broadway, a juggernaut of acting and performance and with audiences and a like Broadway and incredible experience. I'm sure you feel the same way about it, but what is what is really regrettable is that in, you know, in the case of Broadway, you have people who left the industry. Yes, careers were destroyed. Yeah. Yeah. Does that happen in in making films too. It hasn't been as dramatic because I think they're, you know, Broadway is a one live theater is just a whole different deal. There are ways in in film to kind of adapt I think a little easier as a performer and you know the fact of the life of life is in performers of all kinds is it doesn't matter how successful they are. But one of them is waiting for the phone to ring between gigs. You know, and so unless they're locked into a long term tell tell tell series or if they're lucky enough to hit a franchise film vein. But basically, it's the most insecure industry, most insecure job that anybody can have. And if you look at producers directors, what do you call it middle middle management and production of movies. Once you are anointed once your talent is recognized. A, you're pretty sure you're going to get jobs, and B, you're pretty sure you're going to make really good money. Isn't it true it's it's not the same kind of what do you want to call it on again off again experience that an actor has. That's that's true. And, you know, I think actors and professional athletes share similar economic realities. You know, and there's there's no, you know, sometimes for a performer as for an athlete there's no coming back from basically stepping in the, in the mud. I would say, you know, the number of, you know, Spielberg's at all, still, you know, count on a hand on one hand. And, you know, all the people in sports and in showbiz, no matter how successful they are, they really need to plan carefully their money, because it's it's not necessarily an old, never ending tap. So, well, I, you know, I wonder, I mean, you're an actor, and you're the president of the screen guilt. But I'm just wondering if, if you have been affected in your potential of having acting gigs here during the off again on again experience that the industry had in 2020. Well, I have been, I had an audition for Magnum PI. I had an audition for film, you know, and so much has to do with your agent of being proactive. And, and I have a good agent who sent me up. Here's the thing, this, you know, this is going to sound a little bit like whining, but, you know, I whine, but is that it's especially when you, when take Magnum PI just for example, Magnum PI has been described as Baywatch with detective, you know, that and if you're, if you have a hard body and at 23 years old right in the bikini, man, you probably got plenty of work. Also, frankly, there's a demographic issue for not that I don't do background work, but I don't quite look like the national idea of somebody who lives in Hawaii. So, both age as well as ethnicity is not a doesn't open a lot of doors for me. And, and, and, you know, and actually in Hawaii, our members are primarily of what used to be called extras, but now are called background actors. And they, for the most part, don't have lines, they don't, they don't really, and they're, they're happy with their it's, it's widely viewed in Los Angeles, that we have hobbyists here, we don't really have professional actors, and it's kind of true. What can we do about that, you know, there's a lot to talk about he will never finish in an hour, but but you know what I know people you know people who've been pulled in on these gigs gigs. I want to one of the lawyers that I worked with one time he was pulled in on a gig for five oh, and his job was to fall in front of a car and die. He was on the screen for 30 seconds and he got paid well for that. And that was the no lines, the extent of his acting. And I'm saying this is this is an industry make. What can we do to train actors. What can we do to get jobs for actors. What can we do to build productions that will, you know, enjoy local actors. We on the road for that or we just, you know, tagging along behind whatever Hollywood wants to do. A couple of things. One is, I think, you know, there's no good acting no good productions without good scripts. And I think, you know, if you compare the Korean soft Korean film industry to Hollywood product of the last I would say 10 years. It's so head and shoulders they've taken the best of Hollywood production values, and they've crafted. They're not heavy duty they ain't Shakespeare, but they are compelling. They are. They have a heartbeat. And that's something that's been sorely missing in California, Hollywood productions. It's it's it's go boom boom boom boom it's it's it's action stuff. And it's met, you know, the demographics is what at the oldest 30 years old. So that and the other factor is that the industry for an actor exists in two places, California and New York. Now, filming is done all over. Right. But the heartbeat the nerve centers of the industry are in those two places. So if you are an actor, or want to be producer, where do you go, you go to New York, where you go to Los Angeles. And if, on the other hand, you are happy and there's, I'm happy. Look, I jumped I jumped out of New York City in 1967. Number one, because it was a dirty filthy city and it was dangerous and it wasn't had no quality of life. I visited Hawaii the year before. And I said, I'm going back there. So, so that's, and I, at that point I willingly and gladly gave up aspirations of being a working actor, you know, and in Hawaii I've done, I've done television, I've done film, I've done theater. I've been able to do everything of the product itself that drives you to be a performer. And I haven't had to put up in New York City or Los Angeles. So, you know, it's a trade off and I think that doesn't mean that locally written scripts about Hawaii aren't possible and necessary. But that's, that's always been a kind of dream. And it's, it's been close to it, but, but not and certainly not in volume this item. I don't think Hawaii will ever be a, you know, competitor to New York or Los Angeles. Why not? Let me, let me offer some thoughts and she would say, you know, I'm the George Clooney movie. You know, it was, it was pretty good. It didn't accurately capture what happens here and the rule against perpetuities, you know, for landowners and what have but but you know it was one of those thousand stories that define Hawaii. That was our story. They did it. They brought some names in, you know, they, they brought in some production values and they did it. We have a thousand stories like that or at least 999 left. And we have, we have, you know, a fabulous melting pot of ethnicities and cultures here. It is of interest. It is of interest. And we could do that. We have the camera people. We have the technology we have, we have the appreciation of values. I don't know about script writers, maybe that's something that has to be learned or focused on. Why can't we build an industry here that can make first class movies that compete with the best of them? Why can't we do that? You would know the difference and maybe you could contribute some of that heartbeat. So again, the business is the business and it is reality still is these are productions put together by committees with casting dependent upon name recognition and what kind of box office they're going to draw. It's all the reality of American products. And, you know, what you're talking about is a whole different, different, you know, it's the, and you're lucky if you get any quality in that kind of a system. And you mentioned descendants because Clooney directed David Straithorn in Good Night and Good Luck and whatever it was about Edward R. Murrow. And it turns out that David is part of why it and why he didn't cast David rather than George in that role comes down to a very simple reason. Because Clooney and name recognition and potential box office. Simple as that. Yeah. Well, and also the guys with potential box office, they know how to act usually. Yes. And acting really does help. I mean, you know when I watch cable and I want to get to that. These days of my first question is are these people capable of acting. Yes. And so, and frequently these days you find that they're not. Anyway, so bottom line is, I want to ask you, you know, how things have changed in COVID, cause of cable. I mean you talk about, you know, the market, the other side of that equation, the people, you know, who who demand content. And it seems to me there's, I'm flooded, I'm covered, I'm bombarded with movies now from every place in the world. You saw a Russian movie the other day called Silver Skates. It was excellent. And it was all Russian. My goodness gracious they and they rose up to the level of high production values. Acting good story, good sets. The whole thing was really marvelous. And I'm saying to myself, this is sort of like the house of the flying daggers, you know, back when when China showed us that it could do high production value. It's all over the world. It's every country you can think of. Yeah. And there's a lot of competition. It's outside of Hollywood, don't you think. And people are watching that stuff because they are tired of the pope fiction. They want to see something else they want to travel they want to open their minds because they're stuck at home. So I think it's changed the viewing audience don't you. I do. And I think it'll be interesting to see how much theatrical attendance. We see going forward. The movie chains have been as stressed as every other segment of the business. And, you know, I think for me and my wife, even before COVID, we didn't go to movies very much at all. Because there was such rich content available in streaming, even though, even though the experience of watching a film on a screen versus watching it on a little screen is night and day. It's a totally totally different experience. But whether or not when this, you know, fog clears, and we have a healthier environment. It'll be interesting to see, you know, how much and again, what what's more convenient about watching on television besides the breadth of content you're talking about is you can pause it. So shishi, get your nice beverage. I mean, you know, the convenience aspect is just incredible. The downside, of course, is that, like with for us, we're addicted to these Korean tele series and films who they're marvelous and you started, you know, at nine o'clock at night and next thing you know it's three o'clock in the morning. And so it's nuts. It's totally nuts. But it's certainly become a part major part of our consumption. And it also, you know, I think we've yet to have anything like a sustained series in the in the sense of like Game of Thrones or other cable, you know, I look forward to hopefully someday soon getting a product like that, because those kinds of formats allow deeper development character, they allow. I mean, one of the things in the Korean stuff is you'll get the characters they're like, they'll be standing looking at each other for an extended period of time. When's the last time you saw that on five over Magnum PI, you know, did no time and so anyway that's that's my that's my hope as far as new initiatives going forward is to get something in here that's got a got legs to it over an extended period that the Korean stuff is either like 16 episode hour episodes, or one we just watched 32 hours. I mean, it's started to chunk my life I can't get back because I watched that thing, but I know exactly what you mean because it's the same life experience that has taken a good part of my life over the past year and I love it I enjoy it I it's a discovery whenever you find one and sometimes you find it completely by accident. And there it is it tumbles into your life, and it changes your way of thinking it's, you know every movie is an education of some kind and I feel that you're getting educated as never before. And taking all of that. It seems to me that you can't help but making a buck these days in filmmaking. So, after the first six months of coven when these film producers were looking around for locations, and they found that Hawaii had good numbers and effectively speaking, and the mainland was, you know, going a little nuts in major cities, they come out here, and that's what led them out here that it was as simple as providing a safe set. And they, and they, I guess they talked to each other they all came out here all at the same time and laid work all over the state. And that's quite remarkable but at the same time that I was happening cable is becoming more popular. So we're watching it so my guess is that a given production raised more money with the cable providers, then it would have before all of this happened. And so there was, you know, with the money was all over the place and it was worthwhile, you know, coming to Hawaii just so they could make lots of movies, and they have my question to you though is, you know, is this sustainable. There's more going on now. Nani Dawson in that article and Tracy Bennett in Maui very clearly believe that you know these are the good times. But you know anything could happen we live in a fragile world both in terms of health and politics and policy and government in general query, is it sustainable for Hawaii, can you count on it say a year from now. Well, I would say that any predictions about this very strange business called show business are our fraught with with uncertainty, because things do change. One of the things we did enjoy, and it counts for a much of this new and vibrant activity has to do with our nationwide good numbers on the covert side we're like number four or five in terms of top top top here. Getting getting through it. And so, you know, two other reasons are real estate market is red hot and on fire. People are bailing from California, big time. And of course, we're the realtors and we are bracing for the Asian invasion for more investors. And so, you know, and also to there's another aspect to it, which is that CBS, going back to certainly the old the original 50. And it has really allegiance to Hawaii. And now NC is is yet another one that. So, we have been incredibly blessed by in terms of continuity and sustainability, because of the Columbia broadcasting system. And I don't see that going diminishing and of course NC is and opens another door and we're all hoping that it will be like the other jurisdictions NC is has a long and fruitful life. So, the whole the whole was an NC I think is very popular city by city. And we're a great candidate for providing an interesting background on the, you know, the NC I kind of bought. And I think you know that really that one will really last. So we're talking before the show about the differentiation between those kinds of productions that will last and keep providing value for the economy of the state, and those kind of productions that are one off. That distinction for us. Well, I, the example I gave was, we had a John Travolta Bruce Willis of least partially filmed on Maui that they came and went for pretty quickly. It's the nature of feature films, big or small, that they're one offs. The continuity, interestingly enough the continuity here in Hawaii are the crews. Speaking of, we were talking about a friend of yours or not. It was on 50 and killed without words. I, my last five oh my last five oh gig was scripted with with dialogue and I spoke it and had multiple scenes and anyway it turned out to be totally and I was paid as a as a talking actor, thank God. And so I still get residual, but it turned up in the final edit as being almost what you described, which is the guy comes in to do you beat beat and then boom gets hit back ahead and he's dead. So, and it was all described by the lady, the Canadian actress who was walking talking about it. So, you know, that's, you know, that's, that's Hollywood, right. It's, you know, you work and work and you wind up on the cutting room floor that's that whole thing. But I've sort of lost thread about not well with your question. The difference, the difference between the one offs and the, and the serials that are likely to last for a while. Well, okay, yeah, because of the nature of the beast. I guess the the other good super order of why is a destination to do films is is the rock. He he's done, you know, he did I think the, the one of the last films in fact they recruited a lady who was an usher at the signature of, and she was marvelous, you know, and they shot on Hawaii. And so, you know, she's a full fledged member, you know, our memberships looking good, you know, where we're we were huddling around 900 for a long time. And now we're like over 1100. So we're, you know, we're seeing we're seeing the jobs, you know, again, mostly background jobs, but nonetheless, she's a rare exception to that but but yeah, the film. It's their one offs. There are the film credits have go in, besides our healthy COVID numbers, the film credits play a part in it. And because you know, again the business part of it is how much is going to cost and how much we're going to make, you know, sure. But you know one thing that comes to mind David I want I want to mention to you it's my own experience and sometimes you, you look through you know your own, your own view of things your own lens so to speak. And maybe you see a lot pushed into the future, or the past something different. And what I see different in my own experience I wonder about yours is that I'm really not so interested in violent movies anymore. I know there are a lot of people out there that are. And if you look at the number of movies on cable that are violent it's extraordinary. It must be 90%. On the other hand there are art films, and there are feel good films and there are comedy films that are really very good. I'm thinking of that Korean. What was it. parasite. That was excellent. The other one was about this family, the Korean family that settled. Minari. There's a very interesting film and there's no violence in there to speak of. And you say to yourself, well this is, it makes me think you know this educates me shows me things I haven't seen before. And it's not that hope fiction kind of hope violent fiction kind of thing you know with a vengeance plot and we're going to get even and the mob versus you know and the prosecution and the police and, you know, haven't we had enough of that. It seems to me that emerging from all of this mix that we have seen in the new mix that we've seen in the past year, we may have genres that are emerging that will change the industry somehow. Do you agree. There's the problem, and it's not just in the United States. I can tell you. There is a perception of in some countries in their industries of a basic dumbing down that they believe they need to make the product they need to make the car chases and the car bang ups and all, because that's the only thing that's going to get them in the seats. And that means in my view is is guilty of that and most of that most of their product is, is either violent, or is violent and, you know, I mean, and, and the, and it's a fundamentally different audience viewpoint about what they want. Now, you know, I think you and I probably have a view of something. Sense and sensibility was a film that was still lingers in my memory as being a nonstop heartbeat filled film. It just it just there was no dead air there was it was just and and and telling a story that has a human heart to it is is still a rare commodity. And, and the only excuse for the industry not doing more of them, because they don't see there's there's an any profit in them. And that, you know, becomes both a industry perception problem. And also, it reflects a level of sophistication or lack of sophistication with our audiences. You know, and again, Joe business right theater, the roots of theater go back, you know, in, in this country to the director and Bogart wrote an essay about the very first reported decision relating to theater had to do with they performed in a tavern in Virginia. And, and they got busted for doing blasphemy, right. It was blasphemous. So the whole thing went up to court, and that there's a still trial transcript of this and this we're talking in the 1600s right. The judge ruled that no, no, no, it wasn't blasphemous. It was entertainment. And so Bogart makes this point that that is the root of our theater and industries right entertainment industries entertainment. Now entertainment doesn't have to be the car chases and the violence, but some it's a segment of our audience. And so I think as long as we have audiences who respond to that, and are eager, or the other, the other things that violence things is these these these oversized sort of CG effect load loaded, you know, futurist and the marvel the whole the thing some of them obviously it's not bad but but I think, again, it's of a scale so beyond a human level, a human sized story that leaves me flat, but you know, I'm, I'm just an old dude, you know, wasting away in paradise so so I'm with you, David. But I really can't watch that stuff so much anymore. And I wonder, you know, wonder, you know, you say the movie maker looking at the bottom line and they make decisions on that basis is trying to meet a market he's trying to satisfy a market. And then the market, it seems to me changes everything changes as the market changes and and people are looking for an old fashioned escape. This is escape entertainment. This takes me away from the humdrum of being locked up in my house or for that matter locked up in my job or locked up in a life that doesn't really give me extension. So I go, I go and watch cable or I go to the movies and I get extension I, I get to travel. I get to hear foreign languages. I get to see all these things that make me feel that justice will out, you know, and violence may be the way to get there and so forth. And I think that that that is probably changing that there's a greater demand these days a greater frustration perhaps with the way things work in our lives, and therefore a greater demand for escape entertain. Don't, don't you agree. Well, let me put a real big wet blanket on all that. Just check out. Our polarization in our politics, the fake news, the, the, you know, it's ugly out there, Jay, and we're someone insulated from it here in Hawaii, although, you know, the homeboys were also January 6 present and counting for from Hawaii we had a contingent from Hawaii over there. That's the reality. And that's when you think about it. First of all, it's, they're too. There are two communities of, of audience. And I would say to you that though that, you know, schizophrenic world that we now inhabit in politics but also in our culture. So it's a real big question on any change that's going to come the way you are certainly hoping for. And I hope for two. So, you know, that's that's that's the killer. Well, let's let's talk about hope for a minute we're almost out of time here. And, you know, I hope, as I'm sure you have and many people in the industry and, and certainly the film offices in both city and state county and have hoped for job opportunities. And so, you know, the numbers in the star advertiser article are pretty impressive we, we are hiring a lot of people some of them are just serving lunch, you know, to the, you know, the production staff, but others are actually involved in the production. And my question to you is, you know, is this something that a local person say graduate of high school or UH or some college in Hawaii should focus on, not necessarily in, well, maybe in making the film in part, but more in supporting the film, handling all the logistics around the film, getting a job, getting a job. Is this something where there's a promising job market that a graduate of a local school, a Hawaii graduate should, should investigate, or is it better not to do that to go to Hawaii? You know, there's a real question, the article raised the real question about whether this is so important, what's happened with this increased amount of film work in Hawaii, that we should see it as a, as another, you know, as a, as a sector of innovation. Okay, which we haven't really concentrated on, or whether we should just, you know, spend our time and money and our futures and in the hospitality, hospitality industry. I mean, how significant is this in terms of diversification? Well, I will tell you, UH, ACM, the Academy for Creative Media, the state creative, and always bubble the name, but there are, we have local initiatives to support the growth of this industry. And that does become a significant part of our diverse, you know, opportunities. Speaking right now, again, one of the things that the last 5.0 I did reminded me how very special our local crews are. Now, again, these are like teamsters. They are also members of other other unions. But when you get the sort of the combined, and this is just for one episode, right, you get the combined back of the camera, local, an incredible aloha spirit. I mean, a real, real sense of family and, and, and of Ohana. And you get the granted mostly background actors. It's magic. It's absolutely magic. But, but, but as a growth industry, compare it to the number of jobs that the hospitality area is not, it's not going to happen. It's just, it's, there's not a specific gravity enough of opportunities. And again, if somehow, I mean, Los Angeles, initially in the filmmaking industry was an outlier right, it was all in New York and New Jersey, that's where all the film was done and then they fled to the sunnier climbs. It's not a pretty, you know, it's, it's like the Roman, the Italian studio that Fellini did all his film work in. It's, they've got a lock on it, and it's partly history. And it's partly it's a lot it's a lot to overcome to imagine that that center would ever migrate to Hawaii in any big, big way. We're one we're expensive, we're off shore that there's a lot of reasons for that. But, and, and you know, on the NCIS, I think we all of us are pulling for that series. I just hope I just hope that they can getting back to the script. They can really infuse some of that material with something that's legitimately Hawaiian in terms of there are realities here in Hawaii. Because it's there. That's a, that's great resource material. And it's been neglected for ever since. Yeah, yeah, neglected or, or worse. Yeah. Misconstrued, you know, this misstated. Well, David, we're out of time and I really appreciate you coming down. I hope we can do this again. This is really valuable to understand the industry and, and where it's going and what opportunities that offers for the state. Thank you so much. Well, thank you, Jay. It's always a pleasure to trade stories with you. Thank you, David.