 MinePump has some favorite podcasts that we listened to that we've talked about in the past one of them not very many though I'm a little biased. There's not a lot I'm gonna like the motherfucker if I'm gonna listen to him every day or three some are really good one of our favorites is the art of Charm excellent excellent podcast boy Jordan. What's up great? interviews with some very interesting individuals. Did you guys listen to episode 573 where you talk to General Stanley McChrystal? Talk about a powerful episode inspiring. I just listened that one recently It's what really blows me away is how respected the guy is how I mean how great he sounded kind of grounded He sounded very humble and grounded on the show and how his the special forces Soldiers would see him in the trenches with him. You know, he's one of those Don't give away too much of the episode. They got to go listen because that's probably one of the better episodes I've heard in the last month or so on those fucking great Make sure you gotta check it out. What number was that episode 573 art of charm Where Jordan interviews General Stanley McChrystal? Hey guys. Oh, yeah, what is the number one most valuable thing that we offer according to our fans when people message you and say Hey, this is the thing that I value the most This is the thing that I love the most that I'm so glad I got hands down the forum forum hands by far the forum is a community of fitness professionals doctors Trainers or just fitness enthusiasts who support each other Share fitness tips diet tips. They check each other's form With exercises they ask us questions because me Adam and Justin are on the forum Daily and it's usually several times a day. We have we have competitor. We have bodybuilder We have a huge Physique, you know, we got people that are going to Arnold's classic right now in there So you got people talking about diet in there carb cycling you got vegans in there You got ketogenic people in there. It's very diverse. It's an awesome. Yeah, it's an incredible community We got what Mike Salemi on there. We have Stephanie over goes out to people Dr. Brink is in there Dr. Brink is in there. It is an incredibly valuable thing that we offer and the price will be going up next month. However, this month Guess what get it for free. You can get it for free This is how you do it if you enroll in the RGB bundle or the maps super bundles Let me break it down for you the RGB bundle is nine months of exercise programming It contains our core maps program. You have maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic three Amazing programs by themselves, but if you combine the three of them and you do them in order You have nine months of fantastic exercise programming and we throw in the form for free or If you want to go to the next step if you really want Everything that we have to offer you do the maps super bundle which includes what RGB has but it also includes maps anywhere Which is a maps program designed without equipment so you could do it at home You could do it on the road or what a lot of our members are doing is they're using it to bridge Between maps anabolic and mass performance or between mass performance and maps aesthetic in a words You finish one program then you focus on these closed chain movements with your with body weight movement improving proprioceptive ability Then you move into the next maps So in other words use maps anywhere as a bridge in between them. That's included for free Also our latest program the one that's getting critical acclaimed. This is the program I was trained for sure. Oh, yeah trainers coaches are messaging on us about this program It's revolutionary. It is a program with a self-assessment Component that helps direct you to prime how to prime your workouts properly and by the way priming makes a huge difference In your results huge difference And it teaches you how to prime your body Individually properly so you get all of that with the map super bundle and you get the forum for free So again the RGB bundle or the map super bundle forum access Absolutely for free for life and don't forget if you don't get the forum this month next month It's gonna cost more so it's a great. It's a great value You can find all of this at mind pump media comm if you want to pump your body and expand your mind There's only one place to go Might pop might pop with your hosts salda Stefan. Oh Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews You guys ready for some music magic? Oh, here we go. What are you gonna do? Here we go another one hit wonder? Every time yeah No, come on dude listen to the freaking background. It wasn't this like an intro to it sitcom Yeah, I do Oreo Speedwagon I used to call them Oreo when I was a kid. I thought they said Oreo Oreo Speedwagon Oreo. I have a come I have a because those are like crack when you're a kid What Oreos Oreos? They're still what do you mean when you're a kid? They haven't lost their crack like ability since I've been an adult. Yeah, it's the same thing Here's something. I don't get it like a here's something. I don't get I don't I never okay when the commercials for Oreos When we were kids, what would they always show someone would fucking open the Oreo lick the cream or whatever And I always thought to myself like that's stupid people actually eat them like that. Of course just yeah, dude The same thing goes for Reese's peanut butter. It's the best part. What do you what do you mean Reese's peanut butter cubs? They people eat the center out first. I don't remember seeing those commercials Wait, how do you eat the center? People are weird people punch the center out with what their finger tongue Do they really a tongue punch if you take like a really like a Reese's peanut butter cup like the big ones, right? And you know like when you watch somebody tongue punch something like that your keeper Hey girl Brilliant marketing but people actually a oreos like that. Yeah, but yeah exactly Do you think that they did it because the advertising yes, or do you think it was the other way around? No, they did it because the advertising so you don't think that's well, maybe maybe one bird. I don't know Really weird ticks, I mean they do weird stuff Typically something like that happens, right where I'm sure I'm sure it didn't I don't know. I'm not sure actually at all It could have happened where Someone did it Oreo found out about that. Oh, that's brilliant. That's funny. We can market that and then they did it afterwards Mm-hmm, or they thought let's make this into a thing Because somebody on our team likes to fucking open them up and do that it reminds me of that tootsie pop commercial You know, right many licks does it take to get to the center tootsie pop More great market free. Yeah, but hold on a second So here's the thing with this is my problem with Oreo with that with people that eat oreos that way and you know who you are What's your problem? I got you are I got a fucking problem with you man That's why Oreo got smart and they double stuff. You twist it. It pops open stupid And then you take your teeth completely drag that shit completely stupid. Yeah, you don't make it the whole Purpose the engineering the reason why an Oreo is an Oreo is because you take a bite and you have cookie and cream There's a ratio there if I just eat cream. It's not a cookie. It's a it's cream if I just eat the cookie I like that that that sweet lard. It is no longer and whatever. It's like sucking the cream out of a Twinkie What is that stuff? We should do a commercial you bite the Twinkie then you suck Disgusting I don't know why that's sexual I see Justin like fingering it to try all the cream out nose Yeah, I'm serious though you eat an Oreo you want cookie There's a cookie to cream ratio that makes it an Oreo. Don't fuck that shit up man. Yeah, it just feels like it just ruins it I don't know it's like any it's like you imagine eating Cookies and chocolate chips separately. I'm gonna eat all these chocolate chips Then I'm gonna do all these cookies did I eat chocolate chip cookies? No, you ate chocolate chips and you ate cookies You sound like a dictator Do you think it's kind of like peanut butter and jelly though like I mean they both probably existed without each other but together Yeah, I'm sure they weren't invented at the same exactly So I think it's the same and then someone goes. Oh my god when you put these two things together It's like it's makes of this explosion. Yeah, it's this perfect marriage Baseball hat I got a I got a something bad almost happened this morning. What so I don't know about you Son accident. No, I was here this morning. Can we just call it like the sauna saga. It's actually the steam room I don't do the sauna. Well, excuse me. Yeah steam. Yeah, so just work too. Well, see it like that So I don't know about you guys, but for me. There's really only one thing that will negatively affect my libido Hmm only one thing only one thing There's only one thing I could think of quite a few that will negatively affect my libido watching Justin Watching Justin eat a twinkie would be The remains that doesn't use this obviously it doesn't affect cell because that's not what the one thing that Enhance me. I'm gonna be honest there with your girl. It would negatively negatively. Oh my god. No, I got a last long No, it wouldn't positively affect it would a negative. It just doesn't get my libido is basically it's like It doesn't get fucked with it's consistent unless there's one thing this one thing fucks with it It's stress if I'm very stressed out about something Yeah, then I my libido can basically it gets very low now my girlfriend would disagree We had this conversation. She's like, I don't think so and I know me and I know it gets low when I'm super super stressed And it's weird because what happens is Whatever I'm stressed about. I'll add I'll address that issue just through a conversation and halfway through the conversation Yes Not weird so like so I'll be let's say I'm stressed out about I don't know I'll make something up Let's say I'm stressed out about like, oh, there he is. I'm actually a lot better Yeah, so so let's say friend. Let's say like I'll just make something up. Let's say it's finances I'm like god damn it. I'm so stressed out about finances and then we talk about it like let's say I talk about it my girlfriend and I'm just just through talking about it. I'm addressing it and then halfway through the conversation. It's like I can so anyway very stressed out. I've been very stressed out lately and we had a nice conversation with my girlfriend this morning and The libido came right back and then we came here to work out and I Didn't I didn't Cuz I came in so thank god you didn't I don't know Something might have happened and I want I want to challenge that I want to challenge you here I think maybe got a lot of go pros in here I think maybe I don't think it's because you are stressed and then you had this conversation and then that's where you're libido I think you have a Intelligent woman that you can have a conversation with and for the first I don't want to say for the first time in your life but maybe Sorry, that's that's what I was thinking, but I'm not gonna say that what I'm What I am gonna say is that That's probably a very attractive I know is that's like to a bean of cerebral man and having a woman that you can talk to About things like that that normally a man like me or like you probably suppresses and handles yourself because you don't Trust that many other people much less of that many other women that you're with to give you feedback and advice She probably gives you very good Feedback and advice which is can turn somebody off. Wow. No, but that's pretty good. That's a good theory. No, I think of course I'm you disagree. No, well, I'm an ass. I'm not wrong Just can you agree with me? No, you're not wrong because for me. I'm very mentally Stimulated very very mentally like nothing is I'll tell you what I had a friend of mine who posted a picture of What was it she posted a picture? I think there was threes company and And people were you know talking about the you know, remember the show threes company Yes, that's why did you want Justin to sing it? What a great show. Yeah, but anyway, everybody thought Chris you guys riding a bike Everybody thought Chrissy was hot right Chrissy was the hot one. Fuck. Yeah. No Janet. I always want to bang Janet No, you can't compete with the thymaster. She's stupid. Whoo. She was stupid in the show I was super I was super attracted go back and watch remember that now now. What about she was like my crush now What about Scooby-Doo? Obviously, what about Scooby-Doo? Who's the hot girl on Scooby-Doo? You like the nerdy girl that I like Velma. I was always attracted you would be a Velma fucker Hashtag Velma fucker Adam you shaggy Winks the stash right now. That's what I kind of feel shaggy Your mustache makes me feel violated so I had this the funniest Scooby-Doo episode ever was like okay So like shaggy got stuck in a chimney and he's like, I can't get out you know and and so like like he gets Scooby to basically get a broom and so Scooby he's like shoving this broom up to try and get him out of there and he's like And he's like laughing the whole time. I'm like what the fuck is going on He's shoving a broom like to try and get him out. It just looks like he's just penetrating him You don't think you don't think for a second that these these cartoon writers get bored as fuck That's what I'm saying. They're like, hey, let's do some shit They don't even know what this is like I wouldn't know a bunch of stoners Oh a bunch of stoners, you know that was a big thing right with like the Disney movies Do you remember when that happened? Oh when they put like dicks in there? Yeah. Yeah, like in the clouds Yeah, like so in the laden cloud if you freeze it or not when he's flying on the carpet inside I can't remember what it says on the wall. It says something. I remember at line song on the carpet one lot You're not oh you're looking at me That's the laden that's what he sings is that a lad in the world a whole new world. Oh, is it? Yeah It's a whole new world. I'm fucking right I'm not gonna challenge your Disney knowledge there. Definitely not the two of you with children I mean, no, we know we know the game for about 20 years. We know the song Adam Adam knows the part of the movie where there's a Bringing it to the real watch it on mute Well, I'm the oldest of five So I've got little I had younger siblings that are significantly younger than me there Well, they're now in their 20s But before you know when I was 20 and there are 10 I remember them watching those things and being an adult and seeing that be like these motherfuckers put penises in here This is crazy. They can get away with this. Yeah, but I remember that they that was like the original versions and then afterwards they Edit it and there was rumors way back then so my my family has all the like Original Disney classics and like my mom collect collect some she has a crazy Yeah, it's brilliant. They like put them out and then they take them away and they put them in a vault or whatever Possible to buy and then they release them every 10 years like that and this pisses you off as a consumer But you still do that. It's just brilliant. It's brilliant brilliant marketing. Get it. Have you guys seen these? Studies, I'm gonna say studies, but let's just pretend there's quotes around them. Okay, that have been posted on Instagram They'll it's like a it's like a nice-looking picture And it's a study on fitness, which we love studies on fitness. Yeah, I love already ready to learn something I'm already like let's fucking read this and the study will say something like can standing shoulder presses impact shoulder growth What? Why are you studying this the answer is yes next can breathe you alive? Have you seen these this sounds like the muscle PhD to me? Well, I don't know what you're talking about Yeah, I call I recall doctor captain obvious captain obvious. Oh my god. Have you seen some of this like some of these studies? Yeah, where are they getting the funding to studies like where you go to like we do go to investors like okay? This is what I want to do drinking like water good. I want I want some money to study whether or not barbell curls Builds the biceps more than tricep press downs Can I have some money to know and then he puts out a study barbell curls build more biceps than tricep press down some of them are okay? But a lot of them are these captain obvious kind of studies. I don't know Yeah, I don't I don't trust this guy what what I don't I know who you're talking about I know you don't I know you're trying to be PC or I know I've seen all I've seen That's all he does is post these studies that are just ridiculous to me like moving will burn calories and fat Yeah, no fucking shit. It will do that like guess what if you squat you'll build leg. Well, here's build muscle Here's another study. Here's another study Captain's Snapple top. Here's another one. Should you train the biceps through different angles? Like, you know, these are kind of like they're kind of answers. We already know too, right? Well, yeah, and I think you should be clear the reason why I'm not a fan I just don't I don't like people that don't respond to me. I'm a little bitch like that If there's another like person that is Hard to get yeah Well, if you're in our field here and your post in science your posts and studies and you're somebody potentially that I could see coming On the show or discussing things with like I I reach out to a lot of these guys And I have been for a long time and for the most part everybody responds, you know Even someone like a Dr. Lane Norton who has a opposing view as we do still, you know Would converse and talk with me physically comes here. Yeah, and would come awesome So I have not been a fan of old boy for quite some time because I've caught him many times Where I'll ask a question that's related to his fucking study that he posted and he answers everybody above me and everybody below me And it makes me feel like a little fucking punked. So I don't like that. So probably because you're mean maybe yeah Yeah, I don't know if I'd answer. I don't mind avoid you. I do not go Very respectful on others people's pages find me a time where I've gone on somebody else's page Asking the internet frickin to do that right now The only pages I might go to is probably you guys I talk about the two of you that I do anybody Look what you're doing there, Debbie I'm not a fan. No, I'm talking about Justin. He just made a tubby Why I love it bring it He makes me feel bad dude like when we make fun of each other. I like making fun of us All right, it's fun and speaking of Lane Norton. That was a good time. We had with him. It was a great time Yeah, I tell you what we don't agree on everything, but we've always we've said this on the show Agree on a lot. There's a little interesting Yeah, and we've said this many many times before we respect the guy and it's great to meet someone in Person and then for you for you know your first impression to be what you read on a comfort on Lane Yeah, very hard-working Extreme integrity it comes across with like incredible integrity Obviously very smart guy. Mm-hmm. I think and he's and look he's he's we've talked crap about some of his stances Although we've said we've respected him There's also some stuff that we disagree with but the willing that he was willing to come here and get on the show Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't do that three of us. It's our house like mad respect Yeah, like a lot of people wouldn't do that, you know, so I have a lot of respect for him I still even more than I did originally but we disagree in a few things and we we have a four-hour long Interview with him, which is gonna get aired. Did it go did it go for Doug? Did it go for it? It did go for oh close to it so around there Wow Yeah, it was do we agree that we're gonna do just one big monster one is that I think we're gonna drop We should I think we should do that Yeah, let let people decide when they want to stop, you know the conversation. No, it was a great I mean fuck we could have gone for another four hours Well, he gets into some stories man that he goes he went on for a while a couple stories. Yeah, it's good stuff So revealing Today's quas being brought to you by Chimera coffee It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural Neutrophics for a cleaner calmer and more focused buzz without the crash put the Chimera link at mine pump media dot com and input the discount code Mine pump a check out for 10% off. It's the motherfucking Eagle has landed First up is coach KJ Farrell Oh, Terrell, sorry about that best way to transition into keto Before we go into how you should transition into keto Just based off of my observations and off of the science surrounding the ketogenic diet and we're gonna talk about the legit ketogenic diet not the Modified yeah, not the bodybuilding versions of keto or the really high-end protein and like a legit keto is like 70% fat It's like a very high fat moderate to low protein and very very low carbohydrate type diet there are segments of the population that The ketogenic diets tend to work really really really well for and there's some medical applications now the original medical applications for ketogenic diets were For people with epilepsy, but now we're finding there's other applications people with autoimmune disorders in particular neurodegenerative degenerative type of autoimmune disorders like MS Seemed to do very very well on keto diets or keto type diet Well explain what we know about that as far as like how the brain is using ketones instead of instead of glucose And what we know about that what we're learning well if you have If you're if you have issues processing glycogen and utilizing glycogen for energy You're running off of ketones is gonna make you feel a lot better So for example people with dementia and Alzheimer's they seem to do really well with keto diets because their brains are having issues with You know functioning and transitioning to ketones makes the brain operate more efficiently produces less Byproducts less inflammatory markers, and so the brains just work better And then they get this kind of like symptoms get better with their Alzheimer's We don't know if it prevents Alzheimer's yet or or helps Alzheimer's in terms of curing it But we do know that for a lot of people even ketone supplements. You'll see you'll see Benefits with their symptoms just stepping outside and using a different energy source. I mean the Just just from looking at it from that perspective like the health benefits that that provides in the different like if you even Experience it you're gonna kind of notice things right you're gonna notice like a little bit more clarity in your thought process I mean, this is all obviously placebo in ways that you're gonna experience it yourself, but You know as far as that's concerned like that's that's one thing that I've noticed like just being a little bit more restrictive and like always running on the same type of energy fuel source and you know There's you know, there's other applications for athletes as well a Ketogenic diet is probably not the best diet for strength athletes. I can say that pretty confidently. I think carbohydrates provide you with more Explosive type strength studies will show I've noticed that myself that being said the the drawbacks of it are splitting hairs though Like you had someone like Dom who went, you know, what five seven days fast? Ketogenic and here's the thing it depends right again, it depends on the individual like for me I tend to have gut issues and Some would and they seem to be autoimmune issues. So eating keto makes me healthier Therefore, I'll be stronger keto than I will eating on other diets But if you if you don't have those issues studies will show that carbohydrates, you know You're eating carbs in some ways probably better for strength, but if you're a long-distance athlete or an endurance athlete Ketogenic diets present some very interesting performance benefits Like let's say you're doing like a hundred mile race or you're these extreme, you know, kind of endurance athlete It might benefit you bitters of the world Yeah, it might benefit you to run off of ketones because then you don't have to feed yourself with so many carbohydrates During your races and your runs it just makes you more efficient and you're and you naturally even if you're lean You store so many more ketones or fat energy than you do glycogen anyway I mean if you're an athlete a lean athlete You're still gonna have about 30,000 calories worth of you know ketones stored on just as body fat And you're lucky if you have 6,000 calories and from glycogen stored So for a long for long distance athletes, you see a lot of them adopting the you know the keto type of diet So as far as like the transition they're asking about like what the best way to transition into being key like well Would you would you talk about like intermittent fasting and kind of like just being more restrictive? No I think I think more what's more important up in your fast Yeah, I think what's more important than that is is understanding that when you're when you're the average perlis him This is my experience with all the different clients that I've taken from Just a regular balanced diet to making that transition into keto the number one thing that all of them struggle with is the is Increasing their fats to what they need because of how low their carbs are most people don't realize how much carbs they get On a regular basis and then when they go to eliminating it, which is what you're pretty much doing in a real true ketogenic diet to nothing You need a ton more fat or else you feel like shit I mean your body really wants it really wants glucose or ketones and if you don't give it enough fat It's almost like and I and I don't even know the the the way to explain this With science I explain this very simple to my people is when you don't give it enough fat You don't give it enough carbs. You that's where you get that shitty feeling of your body's like almost confused Like what are you gonna give me as my primary source of energy because you're not giving me enough fat You're not gonna give cars and then here come the headaches here come this like fatigue feeling here comes And then people go like oh, this isn't for me. I hate it when it's like yeah, well No, what it was wrong was you thought Increasing your fats from you know 60 to 80 grams a day to now eating 180 or 200 was more than enough And actually you were wrong. It was nowhere near what you needed. It's way more fat than you are used to yeah I mean here's the thing To get into ketosis you're gonna have to because you can be you can scale it right you can go Carb lower carbs lower carbs lower carbs bump up fat bump up fat bump up fat at some point You'll switch to ketosis and when that switch happens now you're on a ketogenic diet So if you want to go ketogenic you can just go ketogenic The problem with that is are you gonna tolerate the type of foods and the amount of fat now right some people's gut flora and the enzyme production in their body Doesn't Translate very well to straight keto like I've had clients that'll go straight keto and then they'll become Constipated or they'll have tough time digesting all those fats because they're their gut flora and their enzyme production or whatever their body Was you know was adapted to eating more carbohydrates But you know I've had other people who transitioning that way is much easier and doing the slow route Just kind of prolongs the pain because when you do switch into keto There's a little bit of a transition process to where your body has to kind of get used to running off of ketone Yeah, but wouldn't you agree that one of the problem because I agree with you that you can go from Hey, you can be in balance eater or whatever and then switch right into keto the next day That's fine But the mistake that most people make is they don't get enough fat and that's typically why they have this shitty feeling that they Have yeah, I would say I would say one probably the easiest way to do it Justin actually touched on something if you're very if you first of all you have to be healthy Make sure that this will work for you. I would enter into a keto diet Excuse me a ketogenic type diet after a 24 to 48 hour fast So go into the fast after about 48 to 72 hours of fasting You're gonna go ketosis anyway So what I don't care what your diet is if you fast for 72 hours or so Yeah, your body will go into ketosis, but 72 hour fast is a long time for most people Yeah, I would say and again you got to be healthy. This is not for everybody So there's your little disclaimer, but do a 24 hour fast in then your first meal make it light But make sure it's a keto kind of profile high fat high fat You know have your veggies, you know kind of moderate protein and then go and then go into a ketogenic diet That's that'll be an easier transition than you know eating carbs to then all I think yeah I think like it was some people I know if it had like an adverse reaction right away to is is the jump from It's almost like a hunger pain or it's like it's it's a different type of a signal then Coming from like very carb loaded and and being like dependent on that fuel source and then switching completely into a different Operating system. So I feel like you know like going into more of a fasted state like kind of trains the body to prep for that Process and then you can kind of like enter it a little bit more I agree. There's a smart smart and one of the One of the hallmarks of a ketogenic diet is it kills your appetite. It really does it really does Kill your appetite. It's sad. I mean if you're trying to eat a certain amount of calories It kind of makes it easy. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you like I eat keto ish Most the time I do throw in carbohydrates because I like to keep Metabolic I hate even using the word. Yeah, I don't like using the word because like I you know Like I was saying it's not I don't eat like this most of time You know at least once a week or so have a decent amount of carbohydrates for me So it's probably still low for most people but for me because I like to have that like I said metabolic flexibility But I notice when I'm real keto it makes it hard for me to eat enough calories. I have no appetite It's just super super satiating. I remember when you're talking about it Adam, too Like when you're still trying to kind of keep your size and all that I was eating it was like really hard Oh, it was impossible for me to bulk on or put size on it was great for leaning like I found like you said it's I Was satiated. I would I didn't feel like I was thinking I loved it for that for leaning out I'm a I'm a big fan and I and I don't like saying a big fan of keto I'm a big fan of a higher fat diet and a minimal a minimal amount of carbohydrates And that was my favorite part about going ketogenic and why I like to teach it to people It's not because I believe that follow this diet because I don't what I do think though is 90 plus percent of all the people that I have trained have never ate a macro breakdown like that where You're literally consuming 70% fat like we have demonized fat for so long You know that I mean I used to tell people a general rule was just stay under 25% You know, so if you flip a box around and that food says it's above 25% avoid it and that was just kind of a Generic number that we use for so long So, you know, most people are used to staying away from fat for the most part So just teaching them all the benefits and teaching them how to connect How they feel and their skin and their hair and strength and energy and satiety and all these things that You get from these good healthy fats because you're increasing them higher than you ever have those to me That is the best part about the ketogenic diet was that you now have this opportunity to really connect those dots and realize like wow This is an important Nutrient in in my diet that I've been avoiding for so many years and to me that is the most valuable thing And just a couple couple points. I want to make that I don't think we stress enough with ketogenic when we have you know these kind of questions is number one Too much protein will throw you out of ketosis. So if you're really trying to go into ketosis It does not jive well with a massive protein, you know, typical bodybuilder diet So even if your carbs are real low and your fat is high, but you're still eating, you know over a one gram of protein, you know per pound of body weight or even one gram of pound for Per pound of body weight for some people will throw you out of ketosis number two It does not mean it's healthy So if you're eating I've had people be like hey Sal I eat keto and I went to the doctor and my cholesterol like exploded And I'm like well, let me see your diet and literally they have no their fatty acid profile is horrible Like it's all saturated fat all they have is butter bacon steak like they don't have olive oil in there They don't have fish in there. They don't have you know avocados They don't have any of the other types of fats in there So the fatty acid pro profiles all off like it's it just because the macros break down to be keto doesn't mean it's gonna be healthy Well, and this is the drawback that I had with it was a variety I remember looking back at you and said, you know fuck man Months have gone by here and I feel like a bulk of all my calories are coming from these handful of five foods You know, which we promote we talk so much about diversity in your diet and the benefits of color and wrote food rotation That any diet, which is why I also don't like diets or isms is when you start to constrict constrict constrict like that It just it requires more work people people think by signing themselves up for a diet That it's going to simplify how they eat but in reality They're actually making it more challenging for themselves because they are Not allowing themselves to be able to go outside of those parameters based on the parameters that the diet's given you and That actually makes it harder We've said this before about one of the most challenging things about you know vegans is if you're a true vegan and you follow that And you're also trying to hit all of your micro and macronutrient targets that your body needs It's actually really difficult. Yeah, and keto is no different. It's very similar. It's the opposite though, right? You know, it's it's just as challenging imagine imagine being a ketogenic vegan and they do exist Yeah, it's very it's kind of like an it's an interesting even it's adding another layer of complicated. Yes, and early next question Next up E. Carlson in a past podcast. You guys talked about some beef with Jim Stepani. Who's our favorite guy? I wanted to know more about why and explained why you think his supplements are no good Sal isn't like his I'll stop a little bit more to the question Okay I recently stopped taking a lot of supplements after listening to you guys and just would like to know what your thoughts are I'll spend very very short time talking about Stepani just because I think it's it's a dead horse, but it started with a Lot of people who followed him would tag me or you know say things like you know Hey, I know you guys say, you know the study show for maximum, you know muscle building performance that lean athletes will get the Maximum benefit or we'll get no more benefit for meeting more than Around point six to point eight grams of protein per pound of body weight. Why is this guy saying one point five to three? And make no mistake the vast majority of studies almost all of them the good ones at least that are conclusive in this that it's consistent Any more protein than that it might it won't hurt you unless you go crazy with it but it's not going to give you any more muscle so you're wasting your time and Here we have a guy which was the Pawnee who was saying No, you get great benefit from eating, you know one and a half to two grams of protein per pound of body weight And then he's recommending people take his protein supplement like three four times a day to help make that up So now you've got a 150 pound make sure it's Cassie right before bed Yeah, now you've got a 150 pound female. That's right. He does a morning and night fucking Marketing then you've got a then you've got a woman say, you know 150 pound woman eating 300 grams of protein And she's telling me about talking about how she's bloated. She's taken three servings of protein powder a day She's not pooping. She doesn't feel good. And I'm like, okay, this is all processed protein It's just it's just doesn't matter what you know source it is and so I got upset and I talked about it because of course he's a PhD he should know better and Obviously, he's just just selling bullshit. Well, he he fired back and then we went back and forth and that's that's it That's where that ends. Yeah, as far as supplements are concerned Well, you know, hold on a second because I think this he is there's he's not the only one who's like this I think there's a lot of I think that I think the three of us get a little more agitated with PhDs that do this I Tend to not like you know because they have that they have more credibility Exactly, so I have less of a problem with a kid like a you know, a Joey Swill Devon physique shreds type of kid or some You know first format you expect them to not know exactly. No, I really that's true You know, and they're they're basically they're falling. They're falling the herd They see how you make money in the fitness industry You make a name for yourself and you pedal some supplement and get everybody on it And then the way they push it is I take it so you should take it And oh, it feels so great or works so great. That's fine. Whatever. It's the PhDs in the industry that I that I don't like because I know being someone that's been in this for so long and I'm sure that even you who's listening to this right now as a Listener, there's so much information. There's so much science. We're always evolving. We're always learning. We're always changing things And it's very easy to confuse the consumer. It's very easy in this market to Put up a study that makes it look like you need this or take this or do that and And I know this because I remember Giving bad information for many of the years that I was a trainer because I was getting fed these studies that at that time I didn't know how to read a study. I didn't understand Exactly what I was looking for and what made it a legitimate study or good information or understood like, okay What does that really translate to okay? So it means for a percentage of this is increased because I take this but what does that really translate into my real goal? Which is fat loss or muscle building and when you start to learn and understand that you realize that it's fucking splitting hairs The best supplement on the mark the best supplement stack you could possibly take you're talking about Incremental change that you can get from that when the fat loss and muscle building category There's there's much bigger rocks and we know as trainers for as long as we've been doing this for that There's so many other places that we can help people for free Teaching someone how to work out correctly how to eat how to how to lower stress in their life how to drink more I mean these are all basic things but a lot of people fucked them up and not only that But let's let's on on top of that. There are some supplements. That'll give you a little bit of benefit You know even the most effective supplement the most effective non-hormonal supplement that's out there backed up by hundreds of studies one of the most studied Ergagenics supplements in fitness period end of story is creating Creating for sure for most people will give you some benefit But even that benefit even creating that's proven to work even that benefit is not gonna come anywhere near low in the Total it's not even gonna come close to like changing a workout programming or eating right It's not gonna come close and that's creating now you could take I would even argue stress and sleep more Yeah, yeah, exactly like lower your stress or manage your stress better and get better sleep Those will do better than creating like if you took all if I took all the supplements that were out there all the ones on the market I Guarantee you we could take 95% of them if not more and put them in a category of Complete bullshit waste your money and maybe may even actually be harmful That's a hundred percent accurate. I'll stand right by that very very small percentage of them will have some use at Depending on the you know on your diet depending on the period of time Like if you live in an era I'll give an example like if you live in in a part of the world Where you don't get much sun your indoors all the time a vitamin D supplement might give you some benefit Is it gonna give everybody a benefit? No, is it gonna give you a benefit all the time? No, what about if you're in the Sun more for example, so this is how supplements should be used This is we're not anti-supplement. We're just we just unfortunately the majority of things Yeah, you got to change the way that you look at them so like if you have all of your ducks in a row and You've completely mastered all the big The big you know things that are they're gonna make the most difference And now you're just looking for like a little bit more of an edge or you may feel like you're deficient You know part of your diet in certain areas that you know, you're not as likely to be able to pull from you know natural whole food sources so there's a lot of there's a lot of room there to experiment and Kind of figure out if it if it makes sense with your lifestyle, but we're just we're just against the the The idea that there's magic pills the gimmicky part. Yeah, the gimmicky part. That's it. The part which is most of it out there It is it is and that's why we do I noticed why Sal was treading lightly when talking about Jim because we're what we are not here to do Is to single out somebody and try not trying to bully. We're not trying to poison someone's business We're not trying to hate on individual. It just so happens to be that him and Sal kind of got into this little Social media thing back and forth like a rap battle. Yeah, you know and we have a platform So we're gonna use it and we're gonna talk we're gonna talk but we're not trying to continue to sabotage this guy's business, but he is a great example of Exactly what motivated us to start and mine pump, you know two years ago was you know these type of guys misinformation Yes, you know we like I can't stand misinformation or like people holding on to old Information old, you know studies and and just just still like just not letting go of that Well, look even when the the evidence isn't from look Let's use an example of another PhD with someone who has lots of integrity from what we've seen so far as Lane We just talked to Lane, right Lane is not gonna tell like he's he could sell a shit ton of protein powders if you wanted to Yeah, but he's gonna tell people hey listen if you eat more than about point seven point eight grams per pound of body weight It's not gonna do any benefit. Yeah, you know I'm saying he could Bullshit people to sell more supplements and he hasn't I'm glad that there's at least some people. Oh, yeah No, we talked about that on his episode was you know We brought up, you know One of the deals that he made when he made his contract with body billion comm in that supplement was that he wanted to Be able to market it the way he wanted to and they wouldn't be able to say how he would do that So but just to give you guys an example of how that you studies like if I were to tell you You know, I'm gonna give you 1% Improvement maybe we did a study with 20 people and out of the 20 people we think we saw 1% improve don't make it that bad Make it no no no no. No, I'm gonna I'm not okay. You'll see where I'm going Okay, and I said hey, we saw I think we think a 1% improvement for two things you think number one 1% Okay, that's fucking stupid number two 1% that could just be Random because you only pick 20 people we'd have to study like a like a million people to see if that's even significant, right? However, if I'm comparing 3% to 2% with a 1% increase I could advertise that as yeah 75 a 50% increase. Yeah, I could say to you Hey, our supplement will increase your whatever 50% now little do you know it's the difference between 3% and 2% But that's how they take the numbers they twist them they mark and what they'll do is they'll focus on things that they can change that Don't necessarily mean you're gonna get a better results. For example nitrogen balance If you increase your protein intake your nitrogen balance is probably gonna go up now nitrogen balance is Connected to more muscle growth, you know positive tissue growth, but it's also connected to a few other things It doesn't mean you're gonna get it. This is the reason why you'll never see these these Ways they market like we'll give you like a direct thing like for example like you build more Exactly, you will add one pound of muscle more a week if you take this supplement They can't say that no, it's good. I don't our study showed a 50% increase in nitrogen balance Let's say it's 1% but they should be you know 3% versus 2% increase nitrogen balance by 50% by using our supplement Nitrogen balance is positively associated with muscle growth and you're like oh shit 50% more muscle like holy crap It's totally that means I just went from one to two percent It's totally designed to fuck with you, you know in that particular way, so That's the main reason why so it's not just Jim what we're picking on. It's the it's the people that represent shit like that or Jim Tiffany little how would you change your training and diet in periods of chronic stress? So this is is that how that was written. How would you change your well? I think the concern is you know gaining weight and losing muscle when you're in a stressful Yeah, like that's a good question because you could use stress or you could back away from stress There's two different benefits that well. I think you need to change your Change your idea of what your target adaptations are for your training and diet. I had I have a personal story To go along with it. So I've been exercising consistently now for Two decades or more more than two decades for a long time. I've been doing this since I was a kid and Obviously in that period of time I've gone through periods of stress and in one one time in particular where I had a close family member Who was very very sick for about a year and then who passed away? It was one of the more stressful periods of my entire life now during that period of time Had I maintained my focus on building muscle getting leaner getting stronger? I for sure Would have either hurt myself or over-trained or gotten myself ill. Yeah, because my body was handling a lot of stress I wasn't sleeping much because of worry because of you know, you know You're stressing over the you know over the individual that you're thinking about my god Are they gonna make it because of lack of sleep because you're helping with this person over here? You're helping with that over there. I'm helping to cook dinner over you know of these days a week or whatever It would have been a bad it would have been a bad combination So instead what I did during this period of time of chronic lung It was literally it was actually more than a year of stress It was about two years of stress because you had a year of this person going through this disease And then a year of mourning after they passed away. So it's about two years worth of stress during that two-year period of time My focus and goal was not to improve my body. It was not to improve my performance. It wasn't to get leaner My goal was to Alleviate my stress. My goal was to go in the gym and to make myself feel better It was really hard for people to do very hard I went into the gym to escape for an hour to be present for an hour because the rest of my day was so stressed It's stressful. So I didn't pay attention to the weight that I lifted. I didn't pay attention to how my body was looking It was like can I Maintain my health so that I can be strong for this person so I can handle the stressful situation That I'm that I'm going through so it was like it's no different than training for sport Like I'm going into this into the gym and I'm gonna use this so I can handle this crap this chronic stress Or so that I can alleviate some of this chronic stress. So that's the way I always recommend people Change their training and diet like if you're and to be more specific, okay? If you're under high levels of chronic stress, you're going into the gym to be recuperative to be restorative. So Intensity is lower. Yeah focus is on mobility focus is on, uh, you know flexibility tightness Recruitment patterns because you'll notice when you're at least I noticed this quite a bit my clients and myself Under high levels of stress. I hold my shoulders differently. I hold my posture differently. I hold my neck differently Yeah, so I'm trying to correct those things in the gym because I you know, well, this is a lot of where part of our motivation behind prime fortification sessions is This is exactly how I prescribed this to a client and you have people take compass tests all the time Yes, because your body changes exactly and and and it's a new priority, right? So I got a client who's extremely stressed right now that they're going through a career change They're going through a divorce. They got a lot on their plate right now, but yeah, they still have goals They still want to be in shape. They still want to to improve that and then but they're looking to me to to guide them and okay Where do I go at them or what should I be doing right now? And a lot of times I've got to get convinced them to pull back on their their training and or shift what we're focusing on instead of Hammering the body with the weight so much trying to make progress in building muscle or burning fat The new focus is just is feeling better is well That's important to highlight because on top of that like you don't want to just stop doing things Right because I've had clients that are in the same situation that Are dealing with like chronic stress that it's it's not going to end anytime soon either Yeah, and so it's it's not necessary to their benefit to just You know lift heavy and and really try to improve their body and in in you know perform a performance aspect But it is so beneficial to create this outlet to create this environment Where we're still going through the movements. We're still Keeping that signal alive, you know and not only that it's like it's a place for you to sort of Meditate and become more present to you know like sort of regroup yourself, right? So It's really important to step outside of that stress and create a different environment for you step into I mean, I know I know it's a shameless plug But this is this is why we created all these different types of programs because when we're done The idea is that personal trainers will will utilize all the tools that we've provided for these exact type of situations and questions So I would hope that a trainer that I was developing and training and that had all the resources that we provide Would be able to look at you and be like boom. There's maps prime fortification sessions and maps white I want you doing for the next two months And the idea is you're gonna be doing these body weight type movements You're gonna be focusing on mobility like Sal was saying and you're not gonna be heavily focused on You know heavy deadlifting heavy squatting overhead pressing a lot of stuff that we are huge firm believers in to build the most amount of Muscle and how the foundation of all of our maps red maps green maps black programs But that's not a priority right now right now your stress and you know You feeling better is now becoming a priority, but yet we don't want to lose everything that we've done and accomplished We don't want us to take a step back. We just want to reprioritize Your focus when you're inside the gym and like Justin saying we don't want you to completely stop So let's move over to like maps white where we're gonna be doing more body weight type movements And let's incorporate some of your you know maps prime where we can start addressing some of your imbalances because all those things if you got imbalances if you got bad posture and you got stress I Guarantee you're dealing with little minor aches and pains and annoyances throughout your body also becomes hyper Hyperreactive anyway when you're super super stressed out you're more likely to feel pain exactly and this is why you get really tense Why you would go through these fortification sessions to you know help alleviate that while you're doing more body weight type things Which is not gonna be as stressful on the body is like a heavy deadlifter over and you want to keep a mind It's not just about being tense It's literally an emotional your emotional state will make you feel more pain And I hate you know people get angry when you say that because they say oh well You're just trying to say my pain isn't real No, you feel it. So it's real. Yeah, it's just not a physical. There's not a physical reason for your pain It's an emotional reason and I promise you it's very strongly It's all connected and so all the systems are connected They all feed into each and going in there and moving look there were days that I would go into the gym and Luckily, I owned a gym so I could do this But if you don't own a gym you could do this at your house You could go in a room or whatever but what I did was I would go in the gym I turned all the lights off so the only light that came into the gym was from the window So it was kind of dark in there I put my headphones on and I put kind of soft Slow music and I'd go in the gym and I would do just movement. I would just move I would do stretches I would just breathe and you know, I'd lower the intensity It's something you want to keep in mind when you go into the gym and you're pissed off And you feel like you just want to break you want to throw the weights in the air because you're so angry Sometimes that's not what you're supposed to do. Sometimes what you do is you do the opposite Because you know throwing in more intensity at yourself is gonna ramp yourself even up even more And so I'd go in there and I'd give myself 15 minutes to bring myself down and then I do my movements He does this it's really weird to when I walk in see him doing downward dog to Inya It's such a weird in his briefs and the other thing the other thing with diet. Yeah, I'm gonna say diet Like you notice people how they medicate With stress because it's like they need this this sort of like release a lot of times alcohol comes into the Picture a little bit more like some some more like poor eating habits habits Just tend to kind of make their way in because it's a comforting thing especially sugar and Highly processed carbohydrates because they both will cause a rise in serotonin And so you'll find that the more stressed you are the more likely you are to crave These types of foods and then it becomes this feedback loop where you get a drop in blood sugar And you want to eat more of them Here's the thing when you're God, you know what you just said is such a good point And it's so fresh in my mind because of just the recent podcast that we did with Lane Nora and stuff is You know, these are the things that we do know we do know when you eat foods like that It does increase serotonin we do and because of that it becomes more addictive It becomes easier for people to do and this and physiological response exactly food that are chemicals I'm sorry. Yeah, and that's and that this is the part that I have such a hard time when I debate people like that over Something like an you know sugars and artificial sweeteners is because there's so much more to meet the eye It's not just cut and dry like oh, you know, this calorie versus this calorie, you know, not the law thermodynamics It's not there's other all past there's other things going on with the body And we I know that fucking more than half the people that I've trained in my life deal with this type of shit They deal with stress they deal with jobs desk They deal with this stuff going on and when they do these are the these are the typical patterns because it's normal And of course and then when you do it one time it feeds that right the serotonin kicks up You feel a little bit better than what you did a drop and then you want more exactly, you know, like I said like Nourish your body like oh first of all you have to acknowledge you're under chronic stress So a lot of people don't acknowledge it. They think they're warriors and they're just gonna fight through that's that's a bad That's the wrong approach acknowledge it like okay. Wow. I'm really under a lot of stress Here's my battle plan with my nutrition. I'm gonna really just take care of myself because that's gonna help me deal with the stress That's one of the best things you could possibly do There's a reason why they call comfort foods comfort foods. It's like a it's like a medication you go in you eat You feel a little better I need some more comfort food and that's gonna happen sometimes But just be aware of it and really nourish your body with diet because it makes a big punish yourself for it No, don't put exactly. Thank you Justin. And if you fuck up, don't punish yourself flex wardle What moments in your life have defined you as a man? I have quite a few of those The first the first boner the Course that would be you first This was the most monumental time ever man one of the first ones for me God that I can think of was Becoming a manager. I was 18 years old when I was managing my first staff So I was really young and I had I'll never forget was my very first All staff meeting so I'm this young kid. I'm 18 years old. I have about I think I had like 15 or 20 trainers that work for me and I remember I had them all in in there was a back rooms because it was big so everybody was standing around me and I was kind of nervous, but kind of psyched at the same time and I remember I stood up on a desk like before the meeting I don't know what popped in my mind but I said I'm gonna stand up on this desk because I really want to Get everybody to you know to rally around me and I stood up on this desk And I delivered this meeting and the minute the words started flying out of my mouth I just went on this really this just this autopilot just felt Incredible to be in this position to have this responsibility and to be a part of this this team and at that moment I felt for the one of the first times in my entire life that this was what I was supposed to do like I'm supposed to Lead a team lead people to have this kind of responsibility. It turns me on it I feel passionate about it. It feels really good and I felt very empowered from it. So that's one of the first Moments that I can think of that really defined me as a man I guess one of the next ones out I know there's more in between that I gotta be there's got to be several right now I can think of a couple on the next the next one I can think of was having children having my kids and It was there's two parts two things that happened They happened with my son because he was my first and I experienced them first with him obviously First was when he was born. I had this interesting experience like I remember my wife at the time She had this connection to the baby because she was carrying him and she was talking about this this baby and her belly And I you know, I love him so much and to me it was exciting But it was this real abstract concept concept was like, okay, I see that there's something in there You're growing I can see on the ultrasound that we have a child But I have I have a connection through you, but I really don't have a connection Yet to this baby and I didn't realize it at the time. I thought I was connected That's common for all like Man fathers. Yeah, I didn't feel anything like like what she was at least I didn't realize it at the time I thought I was then I saw my son come out like I literally saw him come out I saw his face. He had this real He was scrunching his face up because he was about to start crying and I remember my I had a picture of myself That my mom took when I was first born and he looked like me so much like me I was like, holy shit, like and it hit me so hard like holy fuck. I'm a dad and then over the course of Like the next week. I felt this overwhelming Connection and love that I can't explain and there's no there was nothing I had ever felt like it and it was Overwhelming because I'd never I didn't I didn't it was unexpected I didn't know what was going on like I'd watch him sleep and in the middle of night If he made a sound like I'd jump up like oh my god And all of a sudden I'm thinking about the future in different ways and then fast forward He's like three years old and we're watching Finding Nemo Which was his favorite cartoon he would watch on repeat and so the first time we watched it We sat down and watching he was glued to the TV And it was the part where Nemo gets lost that the the fishermen or whatever picks him up and the father swimming After the boat and I'm watching with my son. I fucking started crying and I am not I don't cry at movies I watch movies. I'm like it's a fucking pics are yeah, I'm like it's a movie Men cry I fucking cry dude like I didn't ball but like tears like little couple tears came down you fought it And I was like I was there. I was like, are you kidding me right now? Like what the fuck is and I realized that moment like Wow, this is making me emotional. It just gets worse. I have another I have my daughter and forget about it So those those are two two of the biggest moments that I can feel well that really defined me Let me just piggyback on side just just to get the father stuff out of the way Yeah, yeah, there's two moments like I could I can identify as well one was was when I had graduated I Had graduated high school. I've been through like two years at this college and then had decided that like you know I don't really know who I am like where you know like I was trying to still find out what I wanted to do with My life. I had no idea and so You know, I got really challenged by that, you know by my parents and also like You know Friends and people around me that were kind of still in the area and they were unsure what they were doing And I just like I decided, you know, I'm just gonna get out of here I'm gonna I'm gonna take any chance anybody throws an opportunity at me I'm gonna get out of here and I just decided to go man And and I went to Chicago and then just going through that entire process of Not knowing anybody like I had no friends. I had no like it's just starting over again And then this just sort of defined I helped to really internalize the process of like How I think about things, you know, what what kind of traits like I don't know like I grab on to and like What defines me like what kind of there was a lot of adversity I forced myself into with this and it was really cold and uncomfortable and it was just this You know, I you know, I'd broken up with my girlfriend of like four years, you know and like I just went out there and just decided to like find out who I am and so that was like a defining moment for me and And then taking that Experience back, you know, the next sort of like groundbreaking thing. My life was definitely like having children And then just, you know, I could totally relate to what Sal's kind of describing as far as like not having that initial connection because You know, I really feel like it's Biologically, you know with the first with the first baby when they're just a little, you know infant It's like, you know, you don't have the you can just see the connection immediately with them all, you know It's just there already but it was until like, you know, my son was able to start talking and and and you know communicating with me It was it really just drew me in and I just became changed forever And you know, and then that that sort of process intensified even more the second time because you know, you kind of you kind of know Like the sequence of how this all unveils, but it's this it's this immediate intensity of like, oh wow Now my life is a legacy now. It's like now. I'm like I'm not just living for myself anymore Like I'm really like what I do affects these people So I have to like, you know, figure all this out and what that means and anyway So can you guys can you guys think of times too that really define characteristics in in In relation to business and your work ethic Like can you remember times of like that you went through growing up? That was like that happened that pushed you to this next level of work or this next level of business or Understanding people or can you think of moments like like when I'm listening you guys 100% of course the fan I can't obviously relate with having a child because I haven't had a child But it makes total sense of that being a defining moment in your characteristic and who you are for sure because it's a part of you Right, but I think of times like For me one time that was and I can I can sitting here listening I was like man, okay Well, this was a time that defined this about me being a care like buying my house by time I was 21 or even backing up further. I was out by 17 so I moved out When I was 17 years old and was paying for college and working working working full-time going to school full-time and doing that all on my own And I think that really defined who I was I came from a very poor family and and I was the oldest of five and When I moved out, I knew I didn't want that I wanted more for my life And probably when I was 17 years old, it was very materialistic driven, you know, it was I didn't have things I wanted things and I If I had to do it myself, I would do it myself. So and that was the initial thing that defined me, but that's changed And so I remember, you know fast forward now. I'm 21. I buy my house That was probably one of the most that was probably the biggest accomplishment I remember as a kid to me that that meant so much for me to get to that point in my life I probably rode that high for a good five years afterwards of like accomplishing that like that meant so much to me In life that I've accomplished. I'm established. I'm not gonna be poor. I'm gonna be okay but then later in life, I you know, I continue to excel in business and financially and you know, I just those that don't know this like I have a watch collection and each one of my watches represent a Financial milestone that I made in my life that okay until I've got this much money that I've made and saved I'm not gonna buy this one and then the next one and so on so that meant a lot to me And so I got to a point where That wasn't that important to me anymore And I realized that it was it was to a point because I didn't want to stress and worry about bills and things like that but then I also realized that money didn't buy happiness and you know, I could have all these You know toys and things and you know, it didn't it wasn't it didn't complete me as a person So, you know other things drove me another defining moment. I can think of was Actually, the probably the most recent Would be you know competing and hitting pro as an IFBB and it's funny that that was a defining moment for me because it had nothing really to do with Becoming a pro men's physique athlete. It was more that I set out to go after a goal that I thought was Extremely one of the more challenging goals in my in my life alone, you know, I didn't really have I mean I had Katrina Katrina was a huge support and has always been a huge support of mine But I really didn't I didn't have anybody else to lean on to help me get there And it taught it taught me a lot about about myself. It taught me a lot about self-discipline And also to do something that I knew I didn't have a love and passion for so that that to me Like it's to me. It's easy to do like this. I love this. I love talking fitness with you guys I love working out. I love doing that, but I did not love bodybuilding I didn't love that sport, but I saw something that I felt I needed to do to in order to propel something else that I wanted to do and I think that and it reminds me of a quote that I Used to keep on my desk and it's you know, we do the things that we have to do now so we can do the things that we want to do later and That's hard to do that, you know Everybody wants to do the things that we love to do and everybody wants to find the job that they fall in love with But that's not real fucking life and real life You got to do a lot of shit that you didn't want to do or things that are hard work and you know frustrating and and to put myself through something like that and anybody that's competed knows the discipline it takes and then To work my way up to the highest level and to really not care about it And I think and I think a lot of people trip out that I could walk away from it because I never really truly cared about it It was part of an overall vision So I felt like that was a very defining moment too on Who I am as a character that I could take something or as a person I could take something like that that I can focus on Excel at it and then still move on from it and not be married to it and become attached Wouldn't you say too? I mean just to kind of dive back into your childhood that it was like I mean most of what made you who you are is that process kind of growing up and then dealing with what you had to deal with that and how to like define Who you are gonna be and people that look up to you within your family is like sort of the the role model the authority figure I definitely think I mean if you wanted to go really get crazy deep I would you know, that's why I'm somebody also a fan of like a Tony Robbins, right? Who yeah, I don't I don't feel sorry for myself For anything that I went through. I think it it forced me to mature At a very young age. I mean I gotta remember being a you know It's crazy to think this because at that time in my life I thought I was super mature and and whatever but I remember being like 14 years old and you know standing at the edge of my parents bed and like, you know Giving them like counseling and telling them like how to communicate and talk, you know I'm thinking to myself like, you know And that also caused a lot of issues and resentment in later on in life with my family that I had to grow through But I mean I don't I don't feel sorry that I had to go through that because it defines who I am and it made Me into that person and and it also Created the leader inside of me and Sal touched a little bit on leadership, you know, I think of another defining moment I'll never forget sitting around A big district meeting that we had and there was 12 other of my peers So there was there's 12 fitness managers in the office. There's the district Manager that was leading the meeting and at that time of the 12 trainers or the 12 managers that were sitting on the Table, you know eight of them were people that I hired and developed and I took a lot of pride in that because I Cared more about the success of the other others than I even cared about the owns and that was an evolution for me Because when I first started it was very selfishly driven. It was I don't want to be poor I want these things and I went after those and when I once I achieved that I realized that there was more than that And I enjoyed other things. I enjoyed watching others that wanted those things and developing them So I really think there's a lot of these define. I think I think we're continually Defining ourselves you're defining yourself every single day right every single day. Well, we all seek adversity Let's be honest. Now growth doesn't happen when you're comfortable There's no need there's no need to change if everything's going great and everybody's you know comfortable and happy growth happens from Uncomfort the most growth happens from pain and I know that sucks But it's it's absolutely true. Maybe it gives you a little bit of comfort when you're going through something a shitty time Just know that if you make it You're gonna come out better stronger than you were before I know that hole It's it sounds so cliche the the pressure. It's a diamond. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger But it's a hundred percent. There's a handful of people I have met in my entire life Then there they are there they exist and I try and model after this But really when adversity comes when the hardest times in their life come in they literally fucking grin at it They root they literally smile grin is fuck. Yeah, bring it on You know I'm saying like cuz you know why cuz I know when I make it through this I'm gonna be that much better than what I was before and To say that it sure it's real easy to say that but it's fucking real hard when you're in the thick of it To be able to step outside and say that and do that but I'll tell you what talk about probably one of the most Powerful tools that I've ever I don't even want to say I've learned to do that because it's something I continually have to practice Yeah, nobody want who the hell wants to be in a position. That's uncomfortable and sucks Well, you don't you don't until you realize that like you just said that the most growth comes from that usually it's after Yeah, usually after that shit went down. I'm like, oh my god. I survived I'm like whoa when you learn grew from that so much when you learn to do this You start to bring on more of these scary challenging moments of leap career changes and taking out huge loans to start a business I think it's just you just you just don't fear him as much because you know what you've already been through You've been through the rodeo already, you know, you survived worst case scenario It's funny cuz I'll think in terms of worst case scenario a lot, you know, like, okay worst case scenario What could happen? I'll still be okay. I'm still be alive or or worst case scenario die What's so bad wrong? You know, that's not the worst thing that could happen either like Yeah, you know, you start to think in those terms and really nothing can stop You know reminds me of reminds of a there's a scene in Rocky for We're we're it where his Adrian is half of his fucking knowledge comes from rock Yes, I will break you man where Adrian is like she's like telling him you can't fight the Russian guy And I was gonna kill you and he goes listen if for him to beat me He has to kill me and for him to kill me He has to be willing to die himself and I don't know if and that's I don't think he's gonna be willing to do that And that's it's true for you to go forward and do certain things sometimes you have to be willing to lose it all And I don't think you should always live that way, but when you're going through some of your toughest challenges You know, that's one of the things, you know one other moment that popped into my mind Was somebody who was a hero to me growing up And still is my father But as a child as a kid, he was such a super human Figure yeah, my dad was so strong and he was so like unshakable and you know and he was in many ways a lot of those things of course as a kid you blow him up like I think he's like Superman and For a long time like we would wrestle and do shit my dad would kick my he could beat me Right no matter what I did with him. He would beat me up until I'll never forget this house 18 years old 18 years old at this point. I had studied some judo So I knew how to grapple a little bit and we used to grapple in my in my parents living room all the time And we were grappling and now I'm 18 now I'm pretty strong I've been lifting weights for a little while and I can give him somewhat of a match He still beats me, but I can make him sweat a little bit But in my mind, he's still some superhuman figure and I'll never forget man We were going and I caught him in a it was a shoulder lock and I caught him in a shoulder lock And he didn't want to get out of it and I'm cranking it and finally I hear him go ah and he taps out and Immediately my image of him being the superhuman like unbeatable Superman. It was very strange transition I'm shattered. He's human. It was weird. He's beatable. It was shattered I and it wasn't like you brought back so many memories and it wasn't like I was I wasn't fucking happy No, I was actually sad. It's funny. My dad used to sit on me Like you just just smothered me because we'd wrestle all the time and he's go to people should know that Justin's dad's like 200 yeah, yeah, he was 300 pounds. So he used to just smother me that was his go to you know In just like dead weight. So imagine a six seven guy that's like well over 200 pounds Just complete like you try to get that fucking dude off of you, right? And I was just like oh god. He's doing it again, you know, like there was no way out and There was just one time it was when I was finally I think it was when I was an eighth grade ninth grade or something and we like I would still wrestle them because I just I was like a shithead like that. I just love wrestling and just you know, like all that kind of stuff and We're wrestling and then he just smothers me and then all you know, I'm like, ah, you know I just got all of my might together like I just I just got all my strength. I summoned it And I was just yeah, I started lifting him and I lifted him and then I rolled him on his back And then I got up and I just like threw my arms in the air And then I just walked away No, I just walked away like I felt like the the the champion of the universe see I felt sad I actually felt sad. It reminds like when Rocky marks because it's your hero. You see your hero finally get beat you know, it's like God, what's his name? My dad congratulated me though Well, I felt bad after I did that like not bad for him because I didn't hurt him or anything But I felt like oh my god, like he's he's not like invincible I felt really bad and then I developed a new respect for my father because then I started to really respect him For just being the good man that he is and then it became more true and that was a defining moment That's why kids need to lose. That's why you need to beat your Everybody gets a trophy shit. Yeah, that's that's very good Justin Yeah, listen if you like mine pump Leave us a five-star rating and review on iTunes if we like to review and pick it you'll get a free mine pump t-shirt also Push stop on the podcast right now. Go to YouTube Subscribe to mind pump TV. Let me tell you something. We provide a brand new video Every single day 365 days out of the year. You'll get a new video That's about an exercise or nutrition or something else. That's fitness health related or just cool You're gonna get every single day. Nobody else does that. We're the only ones that do that Because I said so Also, check out mine pump media calm That's where you can find all of our programs and you can also find us on Instagram at mine pump radio You can find me at mine pump Sal Justin's at mine pump Justin and Adam is that mine pump out? 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