 Tell me how you really feel Cause I just wanna feel with you Black girl tell me how you really feel I just wanna keep it real with you Yeah, I wanna live better, eat better Mmm, I wanna love better, sleep better Yeah, I wanna feel so aligned Sublime, sublime Better eat better Sublime One time for elevated rhymes Two times for showmanship Three times for black hands and land Ownership revolution I bring to you Nasty blues on war tunes Singin' to ya, I am the rebel without a pause No applause, trust me I am Chuck D, gettin' fine off Many fools, they clock watchin' my moves And I needed a reappraisal of flavor Took some time off now, back Jesus Black V, the slumberin' unborn All coulda covered in curtain untone I'm the rose that rose to etch his pros And rose at a stone, still yellin' to do a megaphone Always reppin', baby forever home I ain't the pot callin' the kettle black I am the flame keepin' the kettle warm I'm the blame for the renaissance that's called I write and recite it with down feathers on I love you, and write and recite it with down feathers on That mean that shit cold And I'm the coldest Listen, it's the message right here Black boy tell me how you really feel Cause I just wanna build with you Black girl tell me how you really feel I wanna keep it real with you I wanna live better, eat better I wanna love better, sleep better Yeah, I wanna feel so aligned Y'all give a round of applause to this band right now Good evening, good evening I'm still trying to, still trying to get right Good evening guys Hope y'all are well Thumbs up in the chat if you can hear me okay I know I do that every time but I'm trying to make sure My mic Is dialed in the way it's supposed to Cause sometimes my mic Just does what it wants to do so Shout out to the chat Or M-I-C-U Mishon I hope I'm not butchering your name I see you Tanisha I see you Thank you all for being here I'm doing my best to Honor my commitment to stream Every single Friday Like I said You know I'm not typically in front of the camera That's not necessarily my ministry But There's value to be had so You know I will show my face I'm super excited about Our guest today Ironically I was actually a fan of his Before This new found I don't know, notoriety Or recognition So You know I'm really excited to pick his brain Brilliant brother He has Created a vocabulary For Some of these conversations that we're having Some of these concepts That we've been struggling with for a long time So I think we're probably going to Pink pong around But the kind of The belly of the conversation Is the son husband Or husband son phenomenon So I'm really interested in What Dr. Johnson is going to Or how he's going to Elaborate on that And help put it in context For us As always Make sure you guys like the stream Make sure you guys share This week's videos were Interesting we had some Returning guests And actually returning it was just another part To Their interview that hadn't been posted yet Yesterday was You You must not like Or you must hate black women Or you must hate women And then Tuesday was CIA plus FBI So those are really good videos y'all Make sure to check those out And then Monday of course We had the conversation with the Girl who curved the nuclear Physicist so Check that out as well A lot of YouTubers talked about What happened We were lucky enough to actually talk to The person that was involved So I was excited About that and I think it was a pretty good conversation We had Courtney Michelle pull up Courtney Michelle is the goat We had ZZ pull up ZZ is the goat And it was cool for me To sit back and watch Women Have conversation amongst themselves Women check each other and women Put each other on game that was It's cool to watch As As I see you Paul I see you Yeah it was really It was really cool to watch I'm thinking about kind of chopping it up Because it ended up being a damn near Four hour stream I'm not doing four hours tonight I'm actually trying to stick to it Because I need to get to Atlanta I'm working on something tomorrow I wanted to kind of get a head start on that So I was thinking about leaving tonight If not I'll leave in the morning But Yeah so Tuesday's video The actual title is no jumper The thumbnail title is CIA FBI We touched on That intelligent assertive Acronym that the late Kevin Sam was came up with Feminine beautiful and inspirational Acronym that he also Actually I don't think he came up with it But he popularized those Acronyms And it was interesting to dialogue with her About her thoughts on that I saw some of the comments Those were interesting And then I was really Excited about Because We brought up the Anti-black Black female tropes The Jezebel, the Mamie And the Sapphire For me this conversation Must have a Black historical context Whenever I can include That in a conversation I'm really excited For people to see that Yeah Let's see Any housekeeping stuff Again I must Continue to thank you guys For all the support Every comment, every super chat Everything really matters And Yeah you guys are keeping this ministry moving Alright I just want to jump in Without further ado I introduce to you guys The one, the only doctor T. Hassan Johnson How are you doing sir? I'm good man, how are you? Man I'm doing fantastic, I'm excited Man I appreciate you having me Absolutely I appreciate you being here I really appreciate you being here I'm excited for this conversation You know even When we spoke off camera The thing that stuck out to me Is you said your primary goal Is to create a vocabulary around this conversation To help formalize these issues That we're having as men These issues we're having with our women These issues we're having inter-gender You know issues I want to learn more about that When did you kind of decide Okay this is my ministry I need to keep going In that direction I've been teaching At the university level For 24 years now Wow It actually didn't become my ministry Until A few years after taking a position here At Fresno State I've been teaching as an adjunct For some years Finished my doctorate Went out on the market and I came to Fresno I was probably a couple years In At the time most of my research was on hip-hop When you find Your sort of life's work Of your unction as it were You'll find that you usually have been doing it In one way shape or form Long before you knew So I was doing hip-hop But really I was keying in On black males So I brought a hip-hop group X-Clan To Fresno State and they performed And they were actually staying at my house And I had a couple of students over And we were watching a film Called the Diary of a Tired Black Man You know And so I'm sitting there with Brother Jay and some of the other members And we're talking about the film And I noticed a couple of my students You know they were first years in fact They were actually sitting there But they were talking about A whole different conversation And I noticed they were talking about Strange as it is Trying to make sure my language Doesn't disrespect Your platform Your mind be free Okay well they were talking about The sexual expectations Of the women they were dealing with And one of the things they kept talking about Was how whether it was black or white women There was this ongoing expectation That they as black males Engage in rape fetish And so in the midst Of all of that I'm listening I'm half listening to them I'm half talking to Brother Jay But I start keying in on to them Listening to these two young men talk About what girls are expecting them to do And in the midst of this conversation It dawned on me that the line Between what girls wanted from them And what could get them locked up Was a very questionable line And I knew I realized That nobody was talking to them So one of the things I started doing Was thinking about okay you know Is there a way I can actually support These young brothers and I thought about As a teacher of course doing a class Is they got to read And some might not even take the class Because they have to read So I ended up creating both a class And a group at Fresno State For these brothers who are on campus And so in doing both I really kind of found myself In terms of what I'm here to do And so as far as the vocabulary Issues concerning what I realized Is I was trained as a black feminist Doing my doctorate And really I had been introduced To feminism going back to my first year in college You had to get it whether you wanted to or not I mean many of these scholars Were required reading And nobody really cared how it impacted black men We were told if anything by these You know elder women Black women were in women studies They were in Africana studies And they were teaching the same thing No matter what they taught So you ended up getting this heavy dose of feminism And what I would be told when I kind of I didn't even have the vocabulary to ask I was actually trying to say What is it that black males What can we use to make sense of our situation And they would just say we'll use what we develop You know use the feminism That's appropriate, that'll help you And really all it did is Kind of make us prioritize Black female interests But it really didn't speak to our experience And so when I started teaching the black male class For the first couple of years I noticed a dwindling number of black males And an increasing number of black females And I came to find over time That they would take my courses To hear me browbeat the young men About the things they were upset about And so the men stopped taking the class And when I actually started Well hey, exactly Exactly And when I started actually listening to the men And letting them foreground The discussions in a black male studies course I found the numbers of black males Started to go up And the numbers of black females started to go down And so that kind of Helped me kind of push to see Clearly there's something here Because the black males didn't have The language to say what they were trying to But just in the attempt Black women were less and less interested Because they only came for me to browbeat the men But when the men started to explain their experiences They didn't like that And fewer and fewer of them would take the class And then we started actually working on A vocabulary to explain our experiences And it meant stepping outside Of the black feminist paradigm to do that And that's what I've been doing ever since So I want you to help give us context to Where we are today As far as the black male-female Dynamic or the black male-female dysfunction What is the best Historical context you can give us As to where this comes from Where the necessity For a man is fear even comes from Where the women's Current disposition comes from Well, one of the things we talk about a lot Is the role that Institutions and policy Play in our dynamic It's one thing to say Black men are trifling Or black women have bad attitudes Or they're horrible this or that That's surface level But when you get past that At least from a black male study standpoint And a black man's fear standpoint What you get to Is the dynamic is shaped Generations of policy So whether we're talking about Who has access to birth control I mean black men Men in general we're still operating with the tools We had in the 50s We're in 2022 talking about the pull out method Meanwhile women have Five major forms of birth control And over 35 forms And that doesn't even include abortion And right now the big issue on the table Is that access to abortion is questionable But men are still over here operating And so who has access to that Who has access to welfare resources Who has better access to college admissions White collar jobs Consistent employment Who has resources given to them Over the last three years we've been talking about All the programs that have been designed And targeted specifically at black women You know After three years of asking My listeners To identify a black program A program targeting black Males or resources And opportunities Especially since the pandemic I really should say Today was the first email I got answering that question Program in Chicago That would give money to poor black men To lower crime But the problem is it hasn't even passed yet Apparently the mayor is resisting it So here we are looking at Various programs and opportunities From Goldman Sachs to Google to Mastercard Giving billions of dollars in job preparation For black women Even up for the next ten years And black men have one program in Chicago That they're considering And it ain't even passed And the black female lawyer is the one resisting So these are the kind of things And what happens when you have Four to five generations of black families That are seeing black males Kind of being pushed into a relevance Or at the very least In a position of Not being able to even really sustain themselves Let alone a family Chronic unemployment Things of this nature Whether you're poor And you're accessing welfare resources That men can't get, especially when we know about The man in the house rule that prevented that Or whether you're middle class And you're talking about college access And you have a primary female teaching base From kindergarten to graduate school What happens when the data suggests That boys learn better under male teachers Girls learn better under female teachers The majority of teachers are female Well, theoretically you would see A crash in quality of education For boys across race, which by the way we do The black males are at the bottom of that list So when we look at the institutions We look at the various policies And there's a list of them These things have impact over generations And one of the things it affects Among many is women's perceived Perceived attitudes and perspectives About black men And so one of the things I argue Is that black men are perceived as disposable Resources You're an essential component When it comes to sperm If she has a desire to reproduce Maybe marriage If that's something she wants to do But we've gotten to it And developed a culture in the black community Where men are They're almost accessories to some extent And so in the midst Of all of this You have 40 years at least About 50 of women In mainstream media Telling black men everything they've done wrong Telling black men everything they need to do right You've literally had two years Of black men Responding Prior to social media We haven't really had a platform I was born in the 70s If you were raised in the 80s like I was You heard everything under the sun About what black men did wrong And there was no platform And well I'd say hip hop and comedy Like those are two places where you might Hear some push back against some of these narratives But the problem was the majority of black men Would have to filter them Through individual artists So you have to wait for a certain Rap group that might have something to say About black men And their experience, you had to wait for a Tupac To talk about his experience with women You had to wait for an Alexander O'Neill And R&B to talk about his experience with women You had to wait for an Eddie Murphy Or a divorce and how it impacted men You had to wait for those artists to do that Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle But you filtered all that through them Whereas black women had everything from magazines Even to this day, TV channels If you look at BET Her and TV One They're targeting black women They're not targeting them So their stories are being told And they've been told since the 80s Black men not so much, it's been real inconsistent Any other problem with hip hop too Especially in the 80s is you were filtering Men, 17 to mid 20s Yeah For a massive man across age Across class Across geography And there's only so much you're going to get through A handful of 18 year old 20 year old rappers You know what I mean? So social media opened that door And so now you have men That are speaking for themselves And the world has gone apeshit Everybody's upset left and right Because they're used to it But we've been listening It's funny to me when you talk about Kevin People would talk so much about his tone And I did an unofficial poll on my channel I said Alright fellas From teachers, black women teachers To family members To women in positions of authority At the institutions you were at Tell me about their tone Brothers lost their mind I don't care if you talk about mothers I don't care if you talk about The principal school at your high school The tone was off the chain And y'all mad about one dude On YouTube for two years Who was speaking to the mainstream And the funny part is The level of vitriol At him you would think he would have produced As much as Oprah at this point Oprah got the channel She's been identified as a billionaire He was on YouTube for two years In terms of his mainstream contribution And everybody went nuts I'm like really? Because if that upsets you There's a lot of brothers that ain't been heard For over 40, 50 years You got a lot to say And they have not been given mainstream stage And the last thing I'll say to answer you Most of us, and you're probably evidence of this As well, we built our channels by ourselves There's no funding There's no channels There's no Hollywood institutions supporting These brothers built their channels and taught themselves How to do some of the most incredible Graphics and Which Kevin himself built his channel Out of really the way we all did Maybe some advice from each other That's kind of it There's no serious funding behind this And yet, you know, folks are pissed off At what brothers are saying But my issue is not whether or not everything Everyone says in the Manisphere Or Black male studies is something I agree with My push is that it deserves to be heard After the years of bullshit I had to grow up listening to it It needs to be heard, it needs to be said And I don't care if you like it or you don't like it These brothers got a right to speak Absolutely, so I mean My next question for you before we get into Kind of the main topic One of my theories has been You know, you hear a lot of women's Disposition, even in my interviews Like some of their pushback is that Women are doing so much better than men Black women are doing so much Better than men My theory has been that Our women's current disposition Of like being disagreeable Being unwilling to hear anything at all That's less than exalting About them Is because, you know, it serves to Kind of further Number one, drive a wedge between Black men and Black women Fulfill corporate interests And Emasculate the men It's like a perfect recipe To help add context to that Am I tripping or is there something there You know, I tend to approach it more From the political end Put it to you this way, so no matter what people think About the civil rights movement It was the last movement that We saw in the African-American community Where you had people across gender Deography Class Ideology Occupation, color Ability In terms of what we used to call Handicap and sexuality This was the last Major movement you saw where Black folks As a community on the basis of being Black Came together and said we have needs And issues that need to be addressed One of the things we talk about is right after that The way the feminist movement in particular Put a wedge Community in terms of splitting The notion of Blackness and gender But they weren't the only one If you look up Dr. Bobby Wright here on YouTube He talks about that split He talks about it from the 1980s And he said a lot of people don't understand what happened In the 70s He said the 70s came along and wiped us all out And what he meant was Whether you're talking about gender Whether you're talking about the educated elite Whether you're talking He named several different student protest movements The political movements He talked about how each one of those Specific groups was split from within So when we talk about on my channel The issue with Black men and women We're not a relationship counselor I'm not, that's never my forte I'm not professing to be one What I talk about again Is the way policy was used To split the community In a lot of different ways And we see the evidence of that split now Whether it's LGBT Whether it's feminism Whether it's class based Whether it's education based Whether it's employment based Whether it's political party None of that was accidental And one of the most dangerous ways of doing that Is to provide resources to one part of the community And withdraw it from another But one of the things I talk about is When you look at the 70s and 80s At the same time we saw Black women Going to college in unprecedented numbers We had the war on drugs Where did Black men go? They went to prison? This is the split So in as much as you have women celebrating Black men living a very different quality of life And that's a strange reality To be in the same community But we live a very different quality of life From one another And yet some will deny we do And I can show you the data that proves that we do But here's the thing to your other question Your beginning question is When we look at This whole notion of Black women doing better And this is something that Rebecca Lynn Pope recently Jumped into saying Black men running circles around Black men Yeah, I saw that It's ridiculous if you look at the data Because here's the thing Black males are still doing better But they're not doing better because they have support They're barely doing better In spite of lack of support So if you look at the BLS data From 18 to 65 Black men still earn more Than Black women For employed Black men The problem comes in Black women earn about 63 cents On every white male dollar Black men who are employed about 68, 69 cents But when you factor in incarceration We make 51 cents So the only group of men that technically Make less due to employment For those employed they're actually doing better Black males are actually the predominant Number of entrepreneurs But it's recently been celebrated That Black women are the rising Rising group Of entrepreneurs but few people know Black male entrepreneurs but very little support For those Black male entrepreneurs So you have an apples and oranges Kind of dynamic where Black men are not doing as bad as Well I'll put it this way We're not doing as bad as we probably should be With all the obstacles we have Without those obstacles Of course life would be a whole lot different But the perspective on Black men Is the problem The perspective is that all Black men Are doing horribly That are talking about how well Black women Are doing and you know six figure Black Women I'm like y'all know there are more Black men Earning six figures than Black women right That's a fact But if you live in Atlanta or LA or New York You might be fooled going to a restaurant A high-end restaurant and you see six sisters Sitting together making six figures Eating a posh dinner That's a very different thing than the majority And then when you factor in that Black women Do go to college in much higher numbers They tend to have much higher debt That's a fact You might be comparing a highly educated White collar job working Black woman Who makes six figures but also owes Six figures in debt To an electrician who may make 75,000 a year But he has no school loan debt He spends the majority of his time When he's not working playing X-Box And chilling with his boy So we're talking about apples and oranges But we really have to actually look at the data To have a better understanding of who we are But the perspective on Black men Is based on stereotypes That go back to the 1960s And these are stereotypes That Dr. Tommy Curry has framed In some of his recent works He deals with what's called the subculture of violence Theory And what it talks about is there were racist white Scholars that frame these Different definitions of Black men These different ideas about Black male deviance With no empirical data They literally made up ideas about Black men And Black feminists in the 70s and 80s Picked up those ideas Incorporated in their work To make the argument that Black women Were suffering as much as white women In terms of patriarchy And Dr. Curry actually names the names Of the people involved from the white scholars To the Black feminists He identifies the publications where this took place So that language Actually comes from racist white scholars And then after that this obscure group Writing these publications that are castigating Black men get popular And they get popular through your Oprah Winfrey's Your Terry McMillan's Oprah was kind of the spigot That really released this obscure Black feminist idea on University campuses into mainstream Culture That's where you end up with everyday Black women Who've never picked up a Patricia Hill Collins Or Bell Hook's book But they know the talking points From watching primetime television Or purple And so those ideas really Got propagated during that era And you end up in the 80s With niggas ain't shit and it still exists In varying forms to this day Despite how well or how poorly Black men are doing Given a specific context So is there anything Black men can do Independent of our women's Cooperation To reverse the trajectory That we're on? I think we're at a point where For the first time in my lifetime I'm seeing Black men coming together In a way I never have Publicly and fairly widespread And not limited by national boundaries I get people reaching out to me From South Africa From London From Asia From Australia South America and all over the US Black men reaching out to me And saying we got the same thing going on here What can we do about it And so I'm seeing brothers supporting each other's channels I'm seeing brothers sharing information Sharing data, sharing business tips Beginning to collaborate in different ways And build new prospects In terms of what can be done That to me is the beginning point But it's still very nation It's very new, the moment is very Pregnant with opportunity But where it goes I'm not sure But I think that's the beginning point Because you couldn't really do that Right It's a whole different reality now Now you got guys Who are making $300,000, $400,000 a year On YouTube Unheard of in 1991 To get the equivalent Of that income at the time You had to be a doctor or lawyer Or maybe a drug dealer Now there's opportunity People can rise in different ways And collaborate Doing that And I think there's a lot of potential there So I think that's the beginning point But it also means being unapologetic About our critiques Not only of ourselves But of the institutions we're involved in And that includes the family And that's part of the issue For the most part There's never been a time That I've known where black men weren't being held accountable Or what we weren't doing right For what we failed in terms of other people's expectations There was Women in your family There's never been a time I've seen black men not being held accountable But that hasn't been an even healed critique Most of the time when black men didn't Like if you go back to color purple, like you mentioned There were a number of black men That were highly offended at that movie Where exactly could you express that thought Right Without being laughed out of the room Absolutely And my mother was part of that era In the film I read the book like four or five times I watched the movie six or seven times My mother was so excited about it I had Black macho In the myth of the superwoman on my mother's shelf I grew up looking at that book Even before I could read But she wasn't a feminist She never used those words She was just one of those women that picked up on that Excitement in the moment That some black women were experiencing And I was caught in that wave and I saw it From my household as a child all the way through college And I watched the kind of Almost militarization of women Ideologically speaking In the academy as far as feminism was concerned And I watched this rising tide Of contempt for men Even to the point where I see it in my students You know, I can tell you stories About just the level Of frustration and rage at black men Who haven't done anything to them And as a matter of fact When I started to talk to some of these women They haven't even had the experience They saw it in movies They heard it from girlfriends And yet the men that they're talking to May have actually had the very experiences These women are upset about And they still see these men as the enemy And so it's not surprising to me That there's such vitriol And rage that many black men feel From not being heard That it explodes the way it has been It's not surprising to me at all And my statement about it is If there's going to be some healing Y'all got to hear the shit Because we spent 40 years hearing it If you got to hear it for two years I ain't got a lot of pity for you So paint a picture for us As far as What could a potential future look like If we get things On the right track And what could a potential future look like If we just continue As business as usual Moving backward in your question If it continues business as usual I think you'll see an unprecedented split And I think it's actually begun I'm the father of Well, he'll be 17 In a couple weeks And when I look at his group Not only his generation But even amongst his friend group The split is already real I've talked about this for several years He's getting ready to go into a senior year But when he was starting his freshman year In high school He did a summer school program And I asked him I'm a father And he was like So he told me about the various girls And I said, what about the black women What's up with that We don't do that We don't do what We don't do that They're mean to you That's when they like you When they don't like you And embarrass you in front of a roomful of people And you don't even know who they are They'll cuss you out, they'll mean to you He was like, we just stopped He said, we just play video games He's had a couple of girlfriends And they're not really black And if he finds If he finds the relationship annoying Or whatever He's like, yeah, okay, I'm good And he'll walk away And he and his boys will just play video games They are not They're talking about LeBron James' son That's a real thing For young generation and boys Who are really not seeing They're not seeing The value And this is not just limited to the girls At a school and I've been to a school And I've seen their behavior It ain't a fantasy The girl's culture is real The boss bitch culture Is real And what a lot of people don't understand Be they in high school or not They're getting it from their mothers Their aunties and so on and so forth So it's not just happening at his level Because he grew up Watching me and my boys dating And he saw the women we were dealing with And he saw their daughters at his school And a lot more young men are like Anyway, so as far as The possibilities of what can happen In terms of pulling together My hope If there's still time for it Upon listening to each other That we might actually have a different Table to sit down at And begin to speak with a very different tone But to me That cannot happen If you're going to ignore men You can't have 50 years of men listening to you Tell them why they are the bane of your existence And then expect men To shut up and just get along Because you don't want to hear what they are And I hear it a lot I have women that will come into my shows Okay well There's just a lot of negativity both ways How can we resolve this? How long have you listened to my show? This is my first show How long have you listened to other men in the Manisphere? Here's the problem You want to tell folks what they need to do But you haven't even bothered to listen I find that to be the case Even with Kevin Samuels I have women that will mention his name Because they heard it from someone who heard it And he sat and watched the show It can tell you everything wrong with him His tone, he was this, he hated black women Because they picked it up from other women That said the same But when you start asking, have you watched the show? Of course I have, okay, well which shows? I haven't really watched them I saw a clip on Worldstar Or I just heard it from my girls When you get to the bottom of it So again, if you have this culture Of seeing men as disposable resources Who are just supposed to be available To you because you exist But you don't want to hear what they have to say Yeah, I don't think there's going to be any resolution But if you have women that are willing to listen And not quickly dismiss what's said So we can get to the part that makes her feel good But actually sit in it and listen And honestly engage What Kevin would talk about As engaging in good faith Then there's a chance But part of the issue is that There's not a lot of social incentive For many women to do that The entitlement you brought up earlier And the kinds of systemic practices That kind of support A very, you know, solipsistic way Of seeing the world, again There's not a lot of incentive For her to be self-reflective She's coming from generations of women Who ran households and saw men as interchangeable parts Not a lot of incentive for her to do so You're talking about women whose girlfriends And family members would critique her For marrying And catering to her husband Not to say he's not also catering to her But just seeing it Look, I've seen it happen where even a woman Who brings her new boyfriend To a cookout, she so much Serves him a plate She will get cold off of her friends And family members And I'm like, yo, really? So he's supposed to, you know, Protect, provide, do all of that But even so much as bringing him a plate Is a problem from your network Of friends and family And the relationship's supposed to go anywhere And men are tired of it Even men who have never heard of the Manisphere are tired of it And what a lot of people don't understand Is the Manisphere is like the tip of the spear It's new It's coining terms and names For things that have never really been named But here's the thing Everything the Manisphere represents Is something Black men have been doing In the community for years I can point you To the hardest Black nationalist Pan-Africanist revolutionaries I know that stopped dating African-American women in 1988 They started dating Women from Africa From the Caribbean And they're still pro-Black But when you start asking them who you married to Where's she from? She's from Ghana, she's from Nigeria You know what I mean? Even Frederick Douglass, like his second wife Was a white woman It was mind-blowing when I found that out That's the core of it That's why on my channel I don't deal with bipartisan politics And I don't deal with religion The reason I'm talking to Black men the way I am Is because I noticed that again Those hardcore revolutionary nationalists And the most conservative Trump Voting Black men I could find Had something in common They all had frustrations with Relationships that they couldn't talk About anywhere and be taken seriously So they made life decisions Without talking to anybody But those decisions were much the same So the conservative might be with a white woman Or a conservative woman of any stripe Revolutionary is going to be with a Black woman But it'll likely be a Black woman from another country When you get to the core of both Usually that would be in the beer If I could get a beer in them And we're sitting down somewhere I've done this at conferences, I don't even drink I'm just like here, drink that Here, drink another one Same exact stories And that's what I found interesting So I created a space where I could engage Black men and boys And directly talk about the issues That affect us and I don't particularly care What your political stripe is And most people dismiss, oh you're a conservative No, I vote green, I'm not a conservative Most of the men in my channel You know, vary, I mean Hebrew, Israelite, Muslim, Christian Atheist, I mean across religion Across political ideology And I have the same experience Of being seen as disposable Resources of not really being seen As human beings, let alone men And contempt from women Even their own mothers and grandmothers I mean I have one brother who's An internationally renowned storyteller He is well to do If he walks the streets of another country And he's been over to over 60 of them They treat him like Michael Jackson Well-established brother He was telling me about a situation His grandmother, everything was going well And they got off the phone but he couldn't quite Hang up it right at that moment He was doing something else with his hands And he could still hear his grandmother talking to his mother And they began to talk shit about him And this blew him away He'd never heard his mother and grandmother Talking about him this way But the contempt they had for him Was reminiscent of the contempt They had for his father The contempt they had for his uncles Was it a who does he think he is It was a little bit of who does he think he is And it was a little bit of well he should know He needs to pay for X, Y and Z for us Without them having asked him It was a list of issues That they had about him That they had never shared with him And he didn't know they needed to dress But more than the fact Because he would have happily done so if they had said it But more than anything what really hurt his heart Was to hear how much could built up Contempt that they had That he didn't know anything about Was reminiscent of how his mother And grandmother would talk about his father And so I can't tell you how many black men Reach out to me on that basis alone Two years ago I had a banker Who actually ran A series of banks reach out to me And he said look man I appreciate what you're doing He said I listen to your shows So that when I go to Thanksgiving I can actually respond Because he said we go to dinner and every year I have a family full of women that would just browbeat me Under the table about all the things they're angry about And he said listen to you now that I have the data I actually refute what they're saying with that And he said now it's gotten to the point where It started off with them just You know being debated into silence Right. Because he's actually responding with data As opposed to you know feelings But then it got to the point where they would They would avoid Bringing up those topics in his presence He said it's the most peaceful Most peace he's had in years but You know I can't tell you how many men have called me With these very same situations So I actually had a conversation yesterday And the young lady's response was just that You talk good So it wasn't she couldn't refute She couldn't refute anything I said So she attempted to make the claim that I'm just a good orator So therefore you know Whatever you're saying doesn't matter Because you just spin things Into gold So what you brought up with your son Is really fascinating to me Because I actually took it a step further So my brother's 17 And his group of friends Are also around the same age So you know I'm damn near More revolutionary Than just you know Save yourself. So I actually told them I actually instructed them To seek out the black girls In their charter school And you know Make their acquaintance or whatever So they actually came back to me And they told me that They don't want us They want thugs They still want the The popular male Archetype that we see on tv And in rap videos So if you could address The black female delegation What is the potential Risk Because to your point They feel like there's no benefit of black men But what is the potential risk to them Their future If these young boys just Save themselves So ask that again What is the risk if these young boys Just save themselves black men The risk to who To black women If all these boys just take their business elsewhere And they say you know what You know Kevin joked about it But he joked about it using You know real articles about things That people were doing About elder women Older women meaning over 35 Moving in together to share resources You know he talked about You know people living in separate domiciles That kind of thing And even though he was kind of joking But not that's really where this goes I mean because here's the thing When you look at the dating data I mean if you go back to Christian Rutter's book Dataclysm Which was based on over a million different couplings On okcupid And he even dealt with race and gender And one thing we know Is that in terms of You know who really seeks out black women It's black men Nobody wants black women more than black men It's just a reality There are other men that will have sex with black women But at the end of the day The ones who want to take you home and marry you Or overwhelmingly black men Is overwhelmingly black men And so you know at the end of the day If this split you know continues If the contempt that I argue Was baked into the culture Continues unchecked Across generations I mean you and I are talking about 17 year old young men We can just as easily be talking about 65 year old men That I have And those brothers sound exactly the same Which is why Kevin and myself I've had some of these men across age Just reach out to me crying Like I can't believe you said What was in my heart I didn't have the words to say it But every experience you talked about I had I got 70 year old men Coming onto my channel in the comment section Saying young man I've been listening to you for 6 months And I've had every experience you talk about This is the first time I'm saying anything You touched my heart because nobody's ever said it Allowed before You know I got men who Have been you know Married for 30 40 years and within the first conversation They're telling me about having been sexually violated And they've never even told their wives You know something that happened to them when they were kids Because they didn't feel like they could trust That that information wouldn't be weaponized against them The first time she got angry These are things that I think are baked into the culture As far as how we perceive men And if it doesn't get checked If it doesn't get responded to With verve with energy You know at the end of the day I think Things can dissipate to a level we're not familiar with We've never seen before I mean because a lot of people think You know I had a sister tell me this the other day Well slavery broke the black family I said no it didn't Black folk were married more than anybody up through the 1960s Stuff we're talking about Is very new Generationally speaking it really goes back To the mid 20th century To the point where we have some of the lowest marriage rates Around and black men Actually started you know really What a city in calls walking and voting with their feet Very early on Because it's right when you get to Change and family court policy That starts to tilt overwhelmingly in women's favor Men started to see Less and less incentive to marry And when you factor that in With chronic unemployment And just the difficulties black men faced I mean look you know again I mentioned Eddie Murphy talking about Johnny Carson in the early 90s And Eddie Murphy raw and he's talking about How much money you know millions that Johnny lost in his divorce That's one thing what happens when you make 20,000 a year You ever have to lose you know And I think I can't remember which comedian About it might have been Chris rock but he was telling the truth He said you know what happens if you got to give half Of ten dollars you gonna be pissed off That's right you know what I mean so if you're living Off of 18,000 a year And you got to lose half of that and that's child support Alimony whatever else you want to name it You're talking about brothers figuring out I mean we because we've been the canaries In the mine for quite a while The white man is fear comes about Really long after black men Have been voicing their issues and concerns In the black community we just didn't have A platform but this man is fear Developed when well to do Middle class white men started noticing After second and third divorces How much they're paying to child support And how much they're paying for alimony And they started to get frustrated But black men have been talking about this for years And so we we're kind of the canaries In the mine for a lot of this And I think what the black community Is dealing with could metastasize To something that America is dealing with Because a lot of this has to do with western Modernity anyway right From these new generational role I mean the new gender roles where Women get to have no constraints While men get to be held to the 1950s So she could work full time Part time she could adopt She could have a baby she could have an abortion She could work you know two hours a week And then three hours next month You know she can do whatever she wants She can cook and clean she can do none of that You still got to protect provide Or else you're trifling You know you know you can be A stay at home husband and all of that But really how much how much respect Is generally given to men in that position Right I mean it's not Say you can't do it but there's a social Punishment for doing it Certain self-currency for participating In a manner where you meet the other Gender's expectations as far as it relates To men meeting women's expectations So the push is still Many men report this is still That he protect and provide 100,000 he's expected to make Four you know and she may get With him if he doesn't but what's the respect level At how's he how's he proceed Right and so those are the kind of issues We deal with but on her end she can do Whatever she wants and so this is something Even I've heard in my dating life Your money is our money my money Is my money Yeah yeah you know And so when you're dealing with that kind Of attitude coming out of a 17 year old Girl that doesn't even have any money yet If that's what's been baked into her That's how she's been socialized since Birth within her family and most Particularly under the women in her family It's not a hard stretch for a young man To run into a woman from a different culture Or a different group all together That has a very different approach I mean my next door neighbor is a Brother who's in an interracial Relationship with a Latina I live in Central California it's pretty normal out here And he came over one day and we had A conversation you know and he was like Your show I get a lot of this I listen to Your show but it's almost like a secret Your show Yeah yeah yeah And he was like yo he said I went he said At the time I was unemployed and I was living With my parents he met his Latina wife He said they went on he invited her On a date their date was To watch Netflix at his house In his parents house right She shows up with a cook home Cook meal right And then from there she pursued him And now so now he's working on his Doctorate if I'm not mistaken And he's about to transfer out You know I think to another I don't know Where he's going but my point is She saw potential in him when nobody Else would and he talked at length About how many of the women from His own community wouldn't even have Nothing to do with him and all of a Sudden he's got this woman over here Who saw him as valuable before He saw himself as such that used To be a common story in the black Community I mean in terms of You know to some extent when I was Growing up you kind of hear that kind of thing Now so many men report being told That they have to meet these unrealistic Like even in this you know I've seen this on Kevin several times He'd ask women what percentage of men Make six figures the six figures You require in a relationship What percentage of them is that And I've heard women say oh 60 70 percent It's a bare minimum Yeah bare minimum About 9 percent of America Right like of America You know what I mean so You know when you get to the black community And you're asking for men and you know One of the things Kevin was a master at Is really getting past the lip service And getting to the values so she may Not say I want six figures but when She starts describing the lifestyle She expects from a man It's a six figure lifestyle that he's Supposed to provide right and so We hear these people now especially after He's Kevin was a materialist this was None of this was you know none of the stuff He was talking about was humane we need to Get back to just loving each other It's like yeah we can talk about that but How does that work when she's been raised To think of a relationship As a multimillion dollar entity Or you know Where the lifestyle expectation You know what I mean it is to say She may get into a relationship with you And she may marry you and have children With you but what happens when she Was a failure In terms of meeting a standard that you may Not even know about How she began to treat you after a couple of years When the honeymoon phase is over You got a couple kids and you're Seeing this disdain in this woman That you thought everything was good with But you never even knew That there was a standard you were being measured Against and the boxes that weren't being Checked was being held against you This is what Kevin was a master of Getting out in the very first conversation Because he would ask it in sly ways He wouldn't say how much money does he need Does a man need to have What kind of school you want your kids to go to What city do you want to live in Do you want to take international trips He'd ask these kind of questions and you'd be like I want this and I want that And when you get to the core of it He didn't add all that shit up and said You do know that takes this amount of money Especially where you live And people would just be like Oh well okay yeah And he'd be like okay well That means you're dealing with the top 3% of men And he asked a question That the black community has never Really seen pose to it Most particularly the women In decades and that was okay What do those men want from you Do you qualify yes Do you qualify now you got all kinds of People men and women Feminists across the board especially Who are offended at the idea About having to qualify But ain't nobody had a problem with men having to qualify For women's interest over the last 4 or 5 decades Nobody's had a problem with it Nobody You're telling black boys who come out of poor Environments whose families have never earned More than $30,000 a year You're telling them they need to be half millionaires Making $500,000 a year to be Considered qualified To even be a dating option When I interviewed Kevin on my channel He told me that in the 90s And I was there in the 90s I was younger than him But I saw what he was talking about He said if you made 6 figures That qualified you for an interview In the 80s we were told We had to make 6 figures to be For women to want us but then he qualified He said no by the time you got to the 90s 6 figures got your foot in the door for an interview He said you go to dinner and she would talk To you like she was interviewing you for a job And he was so right He put so many of my experiences Even in the 90s into context I was like I never understood it That was what it was But that's the kind of framework You're dealing with and the funny part is When you look at her family background She comes from the same poverty that you come from Black folk don't have We don't come from wealth We don't come from wealth That's not our dynamic but yet still You have this strange entitlement In place where and I've seen this Women working at liquor stores going to community college For the first time at their late 20s with three kids demanding 6 figure men with elite Degrees who can somehow be A combination of Barack Obama and Tupac So Go ahead I was just going to say to segue Into the Core of this conversation Some of And you've mentioned it Some of Men's experiences with black women Originate from their experiences with their mothers Their grandmothers A lot of times women's rebuttal is Who hurts you It's kind of common knowledge that Her trauma comes from her father Whether he was absent or abusive or whatever the case may be But it's kind of dismiss That the boys trauma might come From his mother And part of that too Part of one of the consequences It's very seldom discussed is When we talk about sim culture Like these men who Unnaturally glorify women And approach women with this Reverence And this idea Of their benevolence and everything It comes from the Yeah exactly and you talked about it In your bitchcraft video Can you help frame Two son husbands Okay Well The bitchcraft video came about Because a colleague of mine He's a professor at another university He had a colleague who taught Who teaches there with him And at first he was saying She was fairly cool But over the years she started to develop A very different temperament And so when we got to talking about it She was delving into certain Everything from tarot cards To crystals and what not And then that kind of went into this whole other area Where she was a black goddess And she had to have people Come worshiping her So he was commenting On her behavior in the workplace Because college campuses are an excellent place To recruit It's almost like if you wanted to build a cult There's no better place in a college campus to do it Especially for professors Like for example I'm ashamed of any of the work I do But I don't use my online stuff In my classes We just deal with the straight data I don't have a list of acolytes Following me around I'm not trying to build a cult What I'm trying to do is give these young men the data To go make their own decisions But you have some professors That actually try and acquire people To follow them in a very particular way And he was noticing that with the young women At his campus and I've seen this I'm saying so she's doing X, Y, and Z And he was like, yes, how do you He said it's like you know her This is a pattern And it's not limited to one religious expression I've seen it across many I've seen Christian, I've seen Muslim And I've seen Yoruba, the Ifa Practitioners And the funny thing is really what it is It's a practice that's really mixed With a healthy dose of feminism So Kevin talked about this in 2020 When he was talking about Christian feminists He was identifying what I call bitch crap Among black Christian women Who were you know taking their own Feminist interpretations of Bible And Christian practice Even though there wasn't any kind of authority That they were measuring that against They were just doing it themselves Based on what they felt And I noticed the same thing in other practices So with Ifa what I noticed is You had these women that would only Identify the female Areshas They would ignore all the male ones That's not how you do that But again it was the same kind of thing You saw with Christian feminists It was really rooted around A desire to be worshipped And pedestalized in a particular way And the power of being able to exploit people Particularly men Who are willing to pay you that kind of reverence And so then we got to dealing with The whole issue I noticed as well That you don't even have to have a religious component For that to work Some people that are so fixated On their own superiority over their men That they don't even need to invoke religion To employ that kind of idea And I think we see it all the time In social media and mainstream culture Where again going back to that city girls Kind of dynamic Bolstered by social media The worshipping of The feminine ideal Can be exploited And many men are exploited on a regular basis In terms of those ideas So that's where bitchcraft kind of came from As a critique And you asked another You were talking about son husbands So part of this And again this whole thing goes back a few decades As well because I noticed the beginnings of it In the 80s The superiority complex of some black women Really kind of starting in the 80s Just that notion of having a checklist That men needed to meet Six figures, six pack Six foot two You need to be able to have his own cars Blah blah blah blah blah That list I saw rise in the 80s But there was no comparable list That men were exposing women to To this day when I asked my students How many men have been told That they have to meet a checklist Of expectations for women I've never had a man not raise his hand Even if he's 17 and in his first year of college On the reverse end When I asked my young ladies How many of you have had a man give you a checklist Of expectations that you need to meet One young lady raised her hand To say what that checklist was Once So this is the dynamic So this is where this entitlement begins And it's reached a crescendo In this kind of goddess worship culture That we're seeing Where you have women who are willing to exploit that One of the figures that did that To the greatest degree is Jada Pinkett Smith With Augustos it was named Alcina I remember when this whole thing started The coach to him was supposed to help him heal Right? That's like if I'm a psychologist and I'm helping you heal But then I'm having sex with you on the side That's not healing, that's me exploiting your vulnerability And that's kind of what she was doing So this whole Goddess worship culture Kind of overshadows Exploitation in a particular way But when you get to the son husband What you had some women doing And this is Been pretty consistent in the black community And you have, especially with the rise of single motherhood Right? So my generation Gen X We had really we were The first generation where we were mostly Single parent raised And what you had was Women who you know were frustrated At men frustrated at relationship Frustrated at not being able to find men Who would be willing to play that role That they had pre-designed for him And so they decided to kind of make their sons That and currently What we're looking at in 2022 Is those women are now senior citizens And they have grown sons Who are working out in the world And daughters for that matter And they're looking and again Kevin pointed this out They're looking for these younger men And women to be their retirement policy Right? So they didn't get married You know they decided to turn their Especially their sons into their son husbands Sometimes it does involve sex I'm sad to say, sometimes it doesn't Most of the time I would say it doesn't But the expectations of him Like the role that he's supposed to play I talk about a concept I call Male relationship emotional labor The emotional labor that he's Supposed to perform for her Is usually emotional labor That husbands provide for wives Boyfriends provide for boy For girlfriends But this is something she's actually conditioned Him to do for her I've talked to women who married husbands Who were son husbands And who prioritized His mother over her This is the only time I really get women acknowledging Son husbands and what and the role women play Is when they've had to compete with a man's mother Mother, right When that man chooses his mother over her Oh she got all kind of knowledge About son husbands at that point Right? But it really has to do with Having young men especially But it can be daughters too playing a role That's really typically You know the role of a husband And it's just gotten to a point Now where it now even includes A retirement policy Which is something I didn't expect to see In the 80's and 90's but that's where it's gotten to So now you have these son husbands Who are trying to have families Trying to be out in the world But they have an unnatural connection to their mothers A lot of that is rooted in That culture of 80's Of independence I don't need a man these kind of things And the funny part is I can talk to men I can talk to men who hate what I have to say And they're still familiar With niggas ain't shit They're still familiar with I don't need a man They heard these refrains and they didn't need to hear it On a television show They didn't need to hear it on a YouTube show They heard it from women talking to them This was widespread in the culture And it still is You know what I mean and so That son husband culture is deep Because here you have a controllable resource That is tied to you I mean even at birth Life depends on you As a woman Young men learn very early My well-being is really defined by her mood How I eat Is tied to how she feels in a given moment Boys learn this Growing up very early Even before they can craft words That appeasing mommy comes with sustainability And maybe even happiness At a child like age So by the time he's 30 and 40 If he hasn't reflected on these things He doesn't know anything else but meeting her desires You know needs and I'm not talking sexually But like I said that does happen You know but one of the things you and I also talked about Was what I call husband son Husband son that was my next question There's a video I'm sure you saw I did a show on it A lot of people have been passing it around the internet And it's a stepfather Who's frustrated that his 29 year old You know Or I guess his His lady's son Refuses to move out Refuses to contribute to chores Refuses to contribute to the household And he's trying to tell this young man Look you gotta go You gotta go out into the world Live on your own and the woman Who's holding the camera recording all of this Is saying oh you gonna go before he does Cool And he says yo I'm paying the bills in here And she said and you're gonna keep paying the bills But you're gonna go before he does But the level of arrogance And entitlement in her voice Both of them are yelling at him at a certain point Now I got my critiques of him You know even though I've seen many of these men Who've been socialized since birth to serve women But you know That's definitely one of the values Of connecting with other like minded men To develop a sense of confidence So you can actually recognize when a situation Is worthy of walking away from But that said One of the things and I mistitled my video Should I call this son husbands Versus step fathers I should have called it son husbands Versus husband sons Husband sons are grown men that have No biological connections to a woman at all But he's in a station in life On one level or another where he's beneath The woman he's with And she uses him in an exploitive manner But she controls him I mean both dynamic son husbands And husband sons are about control It's about women in a dominant position To control the men they're with Son husbands are their biological offspring Husband sons are men That they go find in the world Who are willing to serve and much of the time They're men at a lower social level So one of the best examples I could give Is I ran into a gentleman A couple of years ago Who I'd known for a while and he pulled me to the side And he said man I want to understand something He said my wife is a six figure Earner and her girlfriends And they come over to the house to complain All the time sipping wine Complaining about their husband Well their husbands are ex-cons Who were virtually homeless when they got together Right now they're married They have kids with these men And those men need to get an allowance From her just to go hang out at the bar And get a drink with him And he's like why are these high level women Dating these men and yet Have so much contempt for them at the same time And I was like well They're controllable You're not going to go get You know I don't know I don't know what you would name you go by But we're not going to go get We need to talk Yeah I just go by my name I don't know Some people I understand A lot of brothers I don't understand But you know A woman in that position who wants somebody That she can control can't go get an Allen And just say do what I tell you to do But if you can go get a man that's got a record That doesn't have a place to live That doesn't have a job And he doesn't have much ambition If you can go get him and you can get married You can have a couple kids There's a control factor there Because you know and I used to tell men this You're one argument away from a park bench Right That's a level of power and a relationship That a lot of women enjoy But nobody talks about All that financial abuse when men do it to women When men have financial control But technically the concept applies To women in positions of authority In a relationship too We just don't talk about it that way But in the black community you will have White collar six figure earning women Who will go out and look For men that they can control Men that they know at the end of the day Can't go anywhere If she tells him what to do He can't oppose her So in either dynamic It's about control But it's control from two different ends And in that video I was referring to You had a woman that had both She had a son husband and a husband And if you see it from that vantage point It's actually You can see the exploitation In it If you're not having a husband You won't see it That's so interesting Because you know often times in this space You talk about why do women Keep picking certain types of men Why do the pookies And the ray-rays get all the play And I don't think enough men Actually consider the fact that It's easier to manipulate a pookie Or a ray-ray or a You know they call them Hobosexuals right It's easier so like to your point When we see these lawyers And these women who are doing great things Be with street guys You know guys who have no car No place to stay That really makes a lot of Wow I mean it's nuanced right Because street brothers have always been Associated with masculinity More masculine Than the cat that went to school And got a degree and so on and so forth And there is a virility That I think these women are stereotyped And it's tied to hip hop And I've seen this with drug dealers And I've seen it with some of the guys We're talking about If they can be associated with this Street masculinity It's considered more virile It's considered more masculine on one end But she also controls that man And that masculinity Almost like she has him on a leash And she can unleash it We do talk about in my channel proxy violence And there have been a number of cases I've shown over the years where a woman Will sick a man on you Like her own personal people that she can have sex with Absolutely If you can emotionally control somebody It's a wrap You can really do that I've seen women in their 50s When I was 20 I was dating women in their 40s and 50s And at the end of the day I was just curious What you'll find as a young man Is you'll have great conversations You can't have with women your age You're able to go do things And all these things are great But after a while The age, the experience In life, those things begin to bear out And if you don't really get your bearings You can find yourself as a husband and son In one of these dynamics where you're emotionally controlled By someone older than you With more life experience You can be emotionally manipulated in ways You don't even have a language for yet And some women seek that out In men But they'll sick a man on you like a pit bull With spousal homicide When you look at the data around that When women want their husbands killed Poor women And this is going back to Warren Farrell's book Myth and Male Power in the 1980s Poor women use sex They often manipulate younger men into killing their husbands Wealthier women use money They pay for assassins So when you're dealing with poor women Who don't have those resources They use sex to manipulate But that's still emotional manipulation You can't get a hand into a weapon A missile if you will That's a lot of what we see So in terms of the street brothers we're talking about There isn't a sexual attraction To this perceived virility The stereotype blackmail That's kind of associated with criminality Drug dealing And gangsta Violence and so on and so forth That sexual component is there But the other component that none of us talk about Is that she's more in an established position More in an established position To emotionally manipulate someone who's dependent On her Than someone who is Self-reliant You know what I mean? If you make 60,000 a year You got your own apartment, you got your own car It may not be the newest car in the world But you're happy, you got your shit together You're not going to be as easily manipulatable In most circumstances You're not going to run into a woman And get her pregnant after the first sexual encounter Because you know you have something to lose It's a very different dynamic But you can find someone who's vulnerable Someone who doesn't care Someone who can easily be let around Or told what to do or pressured into doing What you want him to do And doesn't even have the wherewithal to challenge it Even when it's against his interests to follow you There are women that seek Those men out And we don't talk about it So I don't know, are you familiar With the blue face Situation with his mom And how his mom and his sister Would beat up some of his girlfriends I mean we know like mama D And that queen Queen You know, what are your thoughts On that? How do we need to understand that? It's that very thing It's a mixture of things So that mother, blue face's mother In that respect, he's a son husband But he's also been in the streets With a lot of black artists So there's that virility that she has On a leash in terms of that He's able to bring her resources At her whim And buy things I think he's managed to tell her Know a couple times what she didn't like And she publicly chastised him for it Which is something you generally do When you think you have enough emotional control Over someone to get what you want out of them Even if it's your son But this whole notion of fighting Or getting your sister to do it There's so much dysfunction And emotional manipulation going on And it's coming from that queen mother position And I said earlier girls can get tied into this too Her daughter is on a leash As much as her son I would argue she's emotionally manipulated Both of them to work in her interest They are her retirement Plan I think she does have a husband Or boyfriend or something of that nature But you know there was nothing substantive There when I did hear about their relationship So the way it struck me Was that he was a disposable resource He was great for sex He was great for maybe sperm If she was still in that stage of wanting another child When they first got together or whatever it is You know there's a role that men are allowed To play with women like that But it's very controlled And it's very much on her terms What happens How it happens is all on her And he plays a role in You know just kind of meeting her expectations When he's called to do it I think between her man and her son And her daughter You're talking about that very queen mother Bitchcraft we're talking about where manipulation You know that's what I was saying It doesn't even have to be religiously based It can strictly be on the basis of Her desire to manipulate others for her own well-being And you know So when I was first thinking about the topic I was noticing it with people who were Abusing religion to control others But I noticed it can You can abuse sexuality You can abuse particularly a man's willingness To try and make women happy I mean we're socialized around that Our social worth as men Has often been tied to how beautiful The woman is that we're with And whether or not we've successfully made her happy Right And that's supposed to be That's supposed to clarify what our value is As men You know if your woman is walking around At least that's supposed to say something about you And that's the way we've been taught That our manhood was supposed to roll Because it worked in women's interest to do so But now you have men that are questioning Well what if my manhood isn't defined By how well you're driven What if my manhood is not tied to your happiness At all I mean you have this new philosophical movement That's eastern based That argues that That happiness is everybody's own Responsibility to themselves To make you happy I can give you a million dollars It doesn't make you happy You may be titillated for a moment But how many rich people do we see commit suicide The whole idea Is nothing outside of you can make you happy You're responsible for making yourself happy And as more and more men Start to gravitate to that philosophy And question my gender My role as a man How much of it has to be tied To these things that are impossible And you know As men are questioning that They're starting to set themselves free Of these social expectations And I think in many ways It's scaring and frustrating a lot of women Who based their whole kind of life philosophy Around manipulating others In their own interest So for the women For the young women who may Watch this and Maybe they come to a realization that I'm heading in that direction Right I may be conscious of it I may be unconscious of it But I'm heading in that direction How do they get off that You know that train Well taking responsibility for your own happiness For one can be liberatory For both people in a relationship I mean the ideal kind of relationship Is when you have two people that are together Not necessarily to make each other happy But to share the happiness that They've created in their own lives With each other So it's not my job to buy you the latest Birkin bag to make you happy I may buy you the bag I may not That has nothing to do with your happiness It has nothing to do with mine If I do something for you it's because I want to If I play a certain role in your life And that should be something you establish early on When you're dating someone This kind of relationship I'm looking for I'm a traditional man I want to take care of all the provisioning And whatever but in response I want a certain modicum of respect You define those things early on But gender roles in a relationship Are just roles, they're not the basis of happiness So if you have two people That understand that basic precept It's not up to this person Or any other person outside of myself To keep a smile on my face, that's my job If I can find my own contentment My own happiness then I'm looking for someone to share it with And if we can share that with each other We can be cool So in terms of your question about Whether a woman pulling herself off that track Is one of the major steps I'm looking for someone to share my happiness with And the gender roles that we're Willing to play in a relationship That depends on what our philosophies are And if we know we have two competing philosophies On that first date then it's probably best We don't go any further because I know what I want A woman may want a man who provides for her She may want someone that she provides for her I don't encourage what she wants But are you realistic about how that works And can you articulate that to someone So that you don't have these mis-messages And you're battling back and forth over that So coming into it With an understanding that your happiness is Your responsibility Which again is very liberating for both people If you really think about it But then being clear about These are the gender role practices That I want to engage in And there are men like that too Some men actually look for women that are We would call sugar mamas As my cousin used to say You like it, I love it You know what I mean And I don't believe in chastising men Who want to actually play traditional roles And I think we've gotten to that point Especially in the left culture We've gotten to that point where Men wanting to play traditional roles Is considered inherently bad But the strange part about it is You've still got a lot of women And Kevin revealed this That want to be in those traditional dynamics They just want to add that They want the benefits of it So they want to add that feminism That we talked about with Christian feminists They want to add that twist So yeah, you protect and you provide But I'm not going to cook and clean And I'm not saying that a woman's role Is limited to cooking and cleaning It was more about the domesticity The relationship angle The heart and home angle Whatever two people negotiate Is part of what that is But when you come into the dynamic Saying I want traditionalism from you Because I am the table Yeah, that doesn't work And then they start saying This ain't the 1950s Well, you want it to be the 1950s For me though Me to play the 1950s role But people don't often understand Even that idea Of the traditional 1950s relationship As problematic as we can say it is It was always based on an exchange Of resources Protect and provide for And home The relationship, the management of the kids He manages the outside world There was an exchange of resources That was what the basis of it is So if you're going to start changing the roles That's fine, but you've got to still acknowledge The exchange and that's what women aren't doing They want to change the roles to suit their interests Like you were saying, they want to cherry pick Which aspects of patriarchy Because that's what it is Which aspects of patriarchy they like But they don't offer an exchange Of occasional sex And many use sex as an attempt to control someone as well You know what I mean? Sex is something you dole out when he's been a good boy I mean, I've even heard younger women You know, laughing and applauding this When they were taught this from their grandmothers And their aunties I remember one woman told me, yeah, my auntie She would only give her husband some When he did the lawn and whatever else I'm like, this mess is ridiculous What's ridiculous? The exchange of resources is what a lot of people want So they just want more and more without any exchange And men Men have been socialized to give In terms of their part of the exchange We come into relationships understanding That provisioning Is something we're going to be measured against Whether we do it well or not We do it poorly, we know we're going to be judged for that If we do it well, we know that that's going to be accepted But women haven't had to articulate What they give in the exchange Many of us have gotten used to Not being able to ask for anything Unhappily unhappy In a relationship Because it's one-sided We don't even have the language To articulate why we're frustrated So a lot of men find That extra 20% as they say That they're not getting their relationship somewhere else A lot of times Women will say that they're doing the emotional labor Without being able to quantify it Without being able to quantify it Part of the reason you can get away with that Is because if male emotional labor Has never been defined Then any emotional labor you point to Because feminists have talked about emotional labor for decades So women can claim that And if there's no language for what men do We don't even argue the point Some years ago We used to talk about Intimate partner violence Even rape within relationships There were documentaries that I watched All the way through graduate school That would say things like 99% Of rapes occur from men to women Part of the reason for that Is that it wasn't until 2012 That the FBI redefined rape To actually account for scores of cases That they had on the books That they didn't know how to classify And those cases were men Who were sexually violated by women But the definition of rape All the way up to 2012 Was Yeah, it was only about The carnal knowledge of a woman Against her will kind of thing So if the definition of rape Is that it only happens to women Then of course you can say 99% Of rapes are committed by men Because that's the definition But once the definition began to include Made to penetrate A number of factors that included men Now all of a sudden you start to see The rates of men's violation rise And it wasn't because it was happening more It was because we ignored it Since the advent of the concept of rape So this is the kind of framework We're falling into Where now men have to be included in the dynamic And we're finding it's changing the Even abuse intimate partner violence We're finding the rates in the black community are bi-directional They're virtually even Violence for men to women And women to men And ironically enough LGBT relationships Most particularly amongst lesbians Have the highest rates of abuse So when we look at the data All the things that we believe to be true And we haven't accounted for that yet So you know this whole movement Of men that are starting to come forward And articulate themselves They're tipping the table About what's been considered conventionally true For decades and it's frustrating A lot of people who've been raised To operate by a set of standards That no longer really exist Wow so one of One of my biggest critiques Of men especially in the work That I'm doing is that It becomes incredibly hard to continue To critique women When you still have a group of men A Delegation of men Still committed to validating women Still committed to validating them sexually With attention with money the whole Nine like even you know Some of the worst interview Exchanges that I've had on my channel She still gets 200 followers She still gets DM'd And solicitations For the whole nine How do we As men who know better Is there any way we can mitigate This thing And actually get through to the women Well I would say this Because my audience is you know I'm mainly talking to men I do have women that come through My channel but they're not My target audience So you know it's a different dynamic So when I talk to the men We have to get away from This thing where We're so afraid to speak We're worried about losing out on women That's the first thing I used to have men reach out to me Say oh man I love what you're saying But I could never do that And I'm like At the end of the day What I find is Patrice O'Neill used to say it My favorite comedian They'll still be there He said women are different than us They like us for different reasons He was probably one of the most I heard him when he passed Somebody who wrote his Not his formal obituary But one of the articles about him He said he was a feminist misogynist Yeah He advocated for women while tearing them down But at the end of the day he would say They like us for different reasons So the more unapologetically yourself You are I think women will hate You'd be surprised who's in your DMs And I can confirm that You can be overweight If you've got charisma And you've got a strength of character You'd be surprised who's knocking on your door And I mean that literally You might get some trench coats Visits if you know what that is In the summer in a trench coat With none on underneath it Just be yourself Be unapologetic And I think what I'm concerned Is not appeasing women As a way to get women's affections But that's how we've been socialized Growing up in the 80s We grew up off all of those Babyface, New Edition Pay her rent Kiss her ass We grew up on that And we learned a healthy dose of If you don't make her happy You will be punished Happy wife, happy life And that's the same kind of dynamic in place And this is the first time where you see men saying You know what? I'm not making that my first priority Anymore. I gotta say what I gotta say You know what I mean? I'm a father of a son I'm a widower and a father of a son I can't be up here chasing women And kissing behinds when I gotta teach him How to navigate this world My first priority has to be What I've found to be true Based on empirical, measurable data And give that to him so he has a better chance In my head. That's my job So, you know I'm really interested in your answer to this question I have a daughter My daughter is one I'm very concerned about Because I can't control the world, right? I can only control how I teach her in the whole nine So like she still has to go out Into the world in schools And she still dialogues with this modern Feminist, neo-feminist context What can I do As a concerned father To get her off that potential train Well I'll tell you this much The women that I find tend to be those who are The easiest to talk to Those who are more apt to listen Are two types And often those two types overlap If she has sons That's a huge deal If she has a tie in her nest In her house of someone that A black man Or a black boy That she's got to prepare the world For, prepare him for the world She's more apt to listen to these discussions In earnest because she loves him Some of the biggest problems you have Are like women who are mothers of daughters They ain't got no men in their lives No husbands, no boyfriends That's when you want to deal with some hell But if you got a mother of a son You got a better chance That she's more willing to negotiate And talk and dialogue The second group are women that had Active and loving fathers And if you run into one that had Active and loving father And she has a son You might want to sit down and talk to her Active and loving fathers plays A critical role in this That's true, man Part of this dynamic is predicated On Miss Andrew On the contempt for men But you'll find when women have had Positive role models and men from birth Easy for them to take in this narrative That men ain't shit, black men in particular If the living example of a loving man Has been raising her from day one Has been to every game Has been there to put a band-aid On every boo-boo, kissed her You know, when they've had that kind of love They don't take to these feminist Philosophies the same way Even if they are advocates for Female ascendance or whatever They still have a care for men That operates differently More often than not on different terms Because you've been the model So I would say What I've seen from your show Your prime to raise a daughter That's going to have an appreciation for masculinity That's going to have an understanding Of what the positives of a man Can be And what the measuring stick Of the kind of man she wants to be with is Not this artificial measuring stick Of how much he needs to make But the quality character of a man And it's particularly important Because we don't live in a culture That has an appreciation for masculinity This is why you see so many men Who are talking about SYSBM If you look closely, they're identifying Women not only in other cultures But in cultures that have an embedded Appreciation for men Oh man Look at the countries that these men That's true Brazil, the DR They're going to countries America, but even in Africa They're going for places where there's a love Appreciation for men Because they don't get that here Even on default, even if you deal with one of the Quote-unquote good ones If you listen long enough, you'll hear the Misandri come out because it's so baked into The culture, she doesn't know what it is It's just what she's learned You know what I mean? And a lot of men Are so sensitive to it at this point Because we've had so much of it That even the smallest amount of Misandri Going to places where You don't have the same relationship to Misandri Because the culture doesn't really allow for that You know? And that's what you're seeing And I'm so happy you put it that way Because I'm even noticing it With my sisters And the crazy thing about my sisters is My dad Is in our life He's not the most visible Figure in our life And I never considered that Could have played a part In their Misandri And their Contempt from like even the way That they talk to me even though I'm the oldest Like it's who do you think you are There is that who do you think you are energy still But people don't often understand That even in the West The definitions of manhood and fatherhood Have changed so fast If you go back and I'm sure you saw Denzel Washington's Fences With Viola Davis The whole film in many respects Was dealing with this transitory period So when you looked at Denzel When his character Troy Would talk about his father and himself You know he would say look I bring home The check every week I bring home the groceries She spends the money on the bills The social expectations of men All the way up to the 60s And even through part of the 70s Was about you had to provide That's your job You weren't expected to be emotionally present That wasn't That wasn't something that hit the culture Until like the 1980s And when I say hit the culture It became a social expectation But nobody taught men how to do it It was expected of you You needed to be this You know I don't know All in the family my two dads father That was emotionally present But you know that wasn't what men were taught We were taught you know To survive and that made you a good man The better your kids were able to eat You know the more dependable they were Dependably they could depend on house And home and so on and so forth That was the measure So all of a sudden you start getting these new expectations And from the 80s to now The expectations of emotional presence Have only morphed in ways that we've never seen before I mean if you take the preeminent Ideal father From the mid 1980s That was learning about this emotional presence idea You know the standards we have now Are unfathomable even to that time You know what I mean Your son tells you at four he wants to be a girl What are you supposed to do now? Well according to the culture you're supposed to treat him like a girl And if he wants to have surgery you're supposed to give it to him This is the rhetoric in certain parts of the country The social expectation of you as a father Listening to a child That didn't These are things that are new People don't realize that the changing definition of father Has only been in the last number of decades So that whole shift In and of itself has put A new standard on fatherhood And manhood that is Unprecedented And we measure men's value Against how well they meet this constantly changing idea That has gone through radical transformations Since the 1960s But the twist is The definition of motherhood Has often been within the realm of What women wanted it to change into It was very much tied to their independence Their political ascendancy Their access to new types of employment in the market They've had much more control Over the new definitions of motherhood And womanhood than men have had Over fatherhood and manhood And so now men are trying to reclaim Some of that control and it is scaring the shit Out of a lot of people When men are willing to walk away From sex I mean I've never heard this many men talking about Monkhood and the values of Monkhood I've never even heard that Ten years ago You got men from 15 to 60 Talking about the value of Monkhood, no fap No fap, yeah, yeah, yeah Celebrity What? Holding on to your energy, yeah And you have some women that have predicated their life plans On being able to sexually manipulate Men into serving their interests And now you got men talking about Oh man, I haven't had sex in a year And yo I feel good, I mean my life is peaceful I don't have any drama When I checked my bank account it's exactly what it was Yesterday, I mean, you know That men extolling the virtues Of Monkhood Do you know how frustrating a Cultural context has to be For men to start extolling the value of Monkhood? You know how bad relationships have to get For that to be in there And that's what it is but the only narrative We've heard over the last 40 years Is that the only relationship has been women And that's mainly because men haven't had a platform So you have women that legitimately think They are the only ones with issues And men are sitting here living well That just are too stupid to learn That these women are having problems They do not fathom in the slightest That men actually have a legitimate problem With them It hasn't even crossed many of their minds I just covered an article earlier today About a woman frustrated over her dating options And what she doesn't have And she writes this article talking about How frustrated she is that she's never Actually had a real relationship At no place in the article does she even Measure, does she even reflect on What men may want You get men That article which is celebrated In many circles by black women Her whole article is based on What these men are not doing well enough For her They're not enough options, they're not Doing this enough, they're not this enough Absolutely But again, men are talking I'm not saying men are inherently better Because they just know shit that women don't know We have had to learn certain things We had to learn that if you want And I said this earlier today in my show I said look, even in 4th grade When I decided I wanted to I didn't have the word girlfriend yet But I wanted girls in my life In some kind of way I had to change, I had to adapt To what they wanted In 4th grade I remember a girl said You dress like A bum And you need to bathe Now I'm in 4th grade, the only thing I care about is playing at recess That's it, we ran everywhere We went to, we wrestled We played soccer, football, basketball You named it, baseball, dodgeball That was all we cared about So the moment I got interested in girls Now all of a sudden my clothes got a match And I got to smell better And again, it hit you with a crossroad Either I do this and start entertaining Girls, or I say play it And I keep playing with my boys and that's it None of my boys ever complained about my clothes Or how I smelled because we all stunk We were 4th grade We bathed every day and we still stunk Because we didn't care, we played But my point is we learned even at A young age if you wanted to be Around girls you had to adapt to Their interests on one level or another Girls and women don't really Conceptualize it that way They think and this has been how they've been Socialized as long as they control The gateway to sex That's it So she doesn't have to achieve, she just is The moment that she reaches maturity And she can Reproduce, she just is And boys and men are supposed to cater to her If they want to be in her space That's what women have learned And now you have an unprecedented situation Where men are saying it's not worth it I'll chill on that And I'll actually wait for some Kevin used to say it all the time Men will go down in beauty to go up In cooperation That's heavy when you think about that That's heavy We'll settle And that's actually been Part of my conversation with Women now I've been using the basketball analogy Saying if you Can't dunk you should develop Your handling Your understanding of the playbook Because women's critique Or rebuttal often Is that I see rich men with average women All the time You see them with average looking women But those women are not Average Those women are not average Those women are Tom Brady's That's real talk That's real talk I'm talking about I've told this story Several times When my wife passed It was 2009 She had sickle cells I looked around And I noticed that about 29 Of my male friends And associates Very particular who I call a friend Out of 29 friends and associates Black males All of whom had a college degree Only one of them African American women Only one of them was with a white woman Two of them had gone monk But we didn't have that term then It was practically the best thing for them They were just tired All of the rest had found black women From other cultures and other Countries All of them That was something like 25 of them And I was pissed I was like wait a minute I knew their wives and stuff All of a sudden I was single again What the hell y'all Get all these other women from it Did y'all plan this It just happened organically In other words, they went where They were treated best That was it And that's just how it went It wasn't planned There was no hashtag There was none at all They were treated well Came back with women from those cultures Women were They were dying pieces It wasn't about how they looked Some were absolutely gorgeous And some were far from it I got my boys I ain't gonna talk about it But none of that was the priority for them They were concerned with peace And yet I got other boys that are still trying To uphold a very particular idea That are arguing with their girlfriends Over getting them a glass of water And I really wish That wasn't a true situation I'm not making that up They are arguing with girlfriends Over asking for a glass of water So a lot of these men got tired of it They got tired of it And so I'm not an advocate Of one group of women Women is better I don't go around saying White women you need to date I don't say any of that To me, I'm just at a place in my life And most particularly, I don't judge Black men who found their happiness Wherever the hell they found it from I don't care if it's a sister with an afro From Philly or if it's the whitest You know, the Jan Brady woman I don't care To me, I just want men to prioritize Happiness and peace because I've never seen It happen in my lifetime until now On any wild level But that's my thing, I prioritize That men seek that out and prioritize Their own well-being In their fifties and sixties due to stress And much stress in their homes As it is fighting the world Standards of society I'm tired of seeing these brothers having heart attacks And whatnot because they cannot find peace And then to shame them Into being in dysfunctional relationships With women who see themselves as better than And see their men as nothing but tools I got real problems with that When I start reading obituaries Or seeing how these men are actually treated Or hearing stories from family members About how they're treated by the women They've been with for decades sometimes I'm sick of it, so I'm at a point Where I'm like, look, just find a peace Wherever you can find it, dammit Because it's time, it's absolutely time So, you know, wherever they gotta go, hey And if the African-American community Can get on his feet and men can Find viable, peaceful, loving options Within the community, I am all for it All for it But if that's not where they find it You gotta compete And if you're not willing to compete Then I guess you don't value them that much Cool That's a mic drop right there That I don't even, I have no other questions First of all, I want to appreciate you Thank you so much For your time For these jewels Man Is there anything else you wanted to add As far as like, you know Just to help kind of button up This Subject This thing that we have to deal with That we have to wrestle with Well, I will say I'm about to get that brother Allen on my show Let's do it We're gonna find out what makes him tick, man As you put it, your ministry Is important And I think it's been Very illuminating to see Some of the outcomes of these conversations Similar to what we saw with Kevin Different tone, different sensibility But, you know, still having dialogues That bring things out And I can appreciate that because that's not my role I mean, I really don't engage women And try and get them to talk My role is really about trying to develop This language and this critique that men have That we don't know how to develop But I think both roles are important And I want to get at what made What brought you into that space How you kind of came about it So we're gonna do an interview next week We get to find out what makes Allen tick And how he got to this point And I think that's the necessary part Of this discussion What are the different angles that black men Are coming at this problem I don't care if they're walking away Or if they're trying to make it work Because a lot of people don't realize Kevin was actually pro-black community Right And marriage, pro-marriage too, yeah Now whether or not we can argue about How possible or viable That idea is But Kevin was actively trying To, you know, get black people together Again And marriage is an important component In that dynamic Now I'm the first one to say that marriage Should always be something men are skeptical of Because of the policy treatment in family courts When you've actually sat If go sit in a family court And watch, if you can Watch how those things take place Watch how judgments are levied On a policy level in terms of how those policies Are implemented in courts It is just heart breaking To see the kind of consistent mistreatment Of men, fathers, husbands In these dynamics So I'm the first one to be critical of marriage In terms of that level of it But I understand the value of marriage I understand the statistics around kids That do better in society and in life Because they grew up with two parents In the home, especially if those two were married And in a positive relationship, right The value of marriage on Look, there's a colleague of mine Got into a motorcycle accident And he was married Right? But he was also seeing another woman And the other woman knew he was married And didn't care She said this is the best she'd ever been treated She loved it, so she was happy to be the side piece He got into a motorcycle accident And spent months in the hospital That side woman Couldn't even so much as call him She couldn't go in the hospital She couldn't visit him She couldn't hear from him He couldn't walk and damn sure he couldn't pick up his phone To call her from a hospital bed Especially why his wife was sitting there So why do I bring that up? I'm saying marriage actually in a society You know, that marriage is legally speaking Can play an important role Had he died Who would have inherited what he had as well She would have got nothing And these things can be important When you're talking about marriage in a given society There is a valued role that it plays In society, in terms of policy In terms of law, so on and so forth So I understand the importance of it legally I understand the importance of it in culture I understand the importance of it In terms of how it benefits children But I also understand that until the Policies change it's Kind of a trap for many men We can find ourselves in some real vulnerable space Going into that unaware I mean hell, even What do you call the Oh goodness, I'm blinking on the Contracts that you can have signed You know Prenup, thank you Even with a prenup, we're seeing prenups being overturned You know what I mean She signed it under distress Oh yeah We're seeing all kinds of reasons That said, Kevin was pushing For marriages, he wanted to see The community rise The funny part about it is I won't call it funny, it wasn't The sad part about it was you had women throwing parties At his death And some men looked at that and said That's interesting, because he was a lot One could argue he was the last chance He was putting y'all on game He was putting y'all on game Because these young dudes are leaving The young guys do not care They don't care, they don't have that same Sense of race loyalty I was a child of a panther Where the children of that 70s, 60s, 70s era So we still had a certain idea About race loyalty The younger ones, they don't have That same relationship, so Kevin was Trying to say look If you want this community To work, you gotta listen to men For the first time in your life You actually gotta hear what they want And you gotta deal with it You may not want to meet each one But you gotta deal with it That was the first time many women have even heard That was the first time many men Even heard that And they were the first to celebrate When he was gone and it's like I don't know if you want to do that Because there's a lot of guys Who are just standing at the side Well first, it's a problem They're looking at you like he might have been Many people's last chance of getting in a Relationship with a black man But the other thing some people are just doing Is they're watching, they're celebrating You know I talked about this when he passed You know there were people Women were throwing social media parties And all kinds of shit going Okay, a lot of brothers Watching in silence from the sidelines Like y'all don't really love us Because I don't care if you're talking about Bell Hooks, I don't care if you're talking about Maya Angelou, I don't care I mean remember Bell Hooks got up and Major newspapers talking about the Central Park Five actually did it You know what I mean When did you see black men throwing social media parties When she passed And when I asked individual women That well I knew a black guy And he posted that he couldn't stand her when she died Where did you see New York Times articles Celebrating her death Did you see major platforms Showing black men dancing in the streets At her death, you didn't see that You didn't see that and you're not going to see it With some of the most what I would consider The craved feminists that had nothing But hatred for black men You're still not going to see black men do that You don't even see it in terms of interracial relationships How many black men do you see throwing You know I mean burning images And Around you know the Williams Serena Married a white man They don't even do that Black men just kind of look at it and say oh It is what it is, yeah But you know when you see When you see your brother to this day He's torn apart in social media So I'm just saying this one way aggression As Kevin called it is well accepted In many circles And so you have men that are fighting it And challenging it, but what I think People really need to be mindful of Is the silent majority The silent majority of men who are standing on the sides Just watching And they're voting with their feet They're not going to argue with you They're not going to have long debates They're not going to go through yelling matches Back and forth pulling out papers and data To try and make their points You know I do that shit And they share my videos with each other Maybe the occasional woman that they're interested in But beyond that a lot of these guys Are not doing that anymore They're just like okay I go find my piece Where I find it or I won't I make my own piece if that's what it is Because women have kind of done that same thing With men for the longest they've just kind of said Well you know I'm going to sit here With my six figures and be well And if he doesn't cater to me whatever Men have gotten to the same point where they're like You know what Okay And that's unfortunately That's been my experience too I'm actually one of the ones Willing to have a two hour dialogue With a woman and try to explain To her why she's having the outcomes that she's having And it's still I'm the bad guy And sometimes I tell them I don't have to do this I don't want to sleep with you I gain nothing from this But you're still acting like I don't I'm not And I don't mean this in any kind of condescending way I'm not saying this As if you will inevitably come along With how I do things I'm simply saying I used to do what you do In terms of the willingness Of the dialogue and you reach a point Where you just go I'm tired I've said that before listen if I get tired I'm going to just start sending people links Like People watch me in 2022 When I care I got to the point where I specifically Said I am talking to men That doesn't mean that women can't listen Obviously I'm on YouTube I can't control that Against women listening But if you come up in my space Trying to mommy men and tell them what they need to do You're going to get bounced Because you're not who I'm talking to I'm talking to men Because even when they disagree You know and even when They don't want to be disingenuous enough About their reasons for disagreeing If I dig deep enough I can find that you actually understand Everything I'm saying you may not agree With what to do about it But you can't pretend after a certain point That you don't understand what I'm talking about Like I said when I got hardcore conservatives Hardcore revolutionaries Liberal folk those in the middle Those who are apolitical or atheists When I got men on every part Of the spectrum that can say I know what that feels like Yes my mother talked to me this way Yes the women in my family did me this way Yes the girlfriends and the wives I've had Did this this and this When you can see those men Who can agree on far too many things That's when you know this is not some shit That we're just making up This ain't some black women have attitudes We're tired of it it's way beyond that It's way beyond that This is actually a critical point For the black community and I agree with you on that It is critical I'm a bit skeptical About whether or not women are willing To do the work that they've demanded Men do For the last 40 to 50 years I really don't think that too many Women are down to do that Internal work What they call internal work is really the Shit that they feel like dealing with Listen to men And respond to what men are actually saying And take it seriously and do it in earnest And don't see very many women doing that And that's what makes me skeptical And I'm not happy about being skeptical I'm just skeptical because I don't see it But they've made these demands on men For decades and I'm just like Y'all are some real interesting creatures That's a lot of arrogance You don't sit up here and tell men Everything they're doing wrong But you don't even want to hear what they have to say When you finally have to hear it You're still putting your hands over your ears Saying niggas ain't shit Okay Good luck The first men to leave are the men who can The second men to leave are the men Who will find a way Right And the men that are left, well Right It is what it is Man Again, thank you sir, I appreciate it Thank you Y'all definitely go subscribe To Dr. T. S. S. Johnson's YouTube channel ASAP, I'm going to put the link in the I'm going to put the link in the chat We'll be having a conversation over there Monday So y'all be sure to tune Into that Monday 9 o'clock Eastern 6 o'clock Pacific Yeah, man I'm excited to watch this back I don't think I've picked everything up It's like a really good A really good freestyle You might have missed some double entendre So like Man, I I hope there's Some value to it I'm not trying to hurt people But I really do Want black men to be heard And really that's my contribution To Whether the community thrives Or falls apart, my contribution is Y'all go hear these brothers That's right And you know Part of what I've been saying is The reason why Black men have been silenced It works in service of the white power structure The reason why black women Have been, you know, pedestalized Works in the service of the white power structure So if we skip that context And we're just bickering amongst ourselves We're doing, you know what I mean We're essentially just doing What they want us to do We talk about Robert Staples That's why we talk about Errol Miller And James Sedanius And Anthony LaMell And Tommy J. Curry We talk about these scholars and black male studies Because for generations they've been explaining Why black men in particular Have been attacked This is critical, this is a critical piece to it It's not arbitrary, it doesn't come out of nowhere It isn't because white society woke up one day And they just said, you know, I don't like black men No, there was a structural reason Why black men and women were treated differently Why black men and women were targeted differently With different strategies You know, the illusion of Of middle class access for women While the, you know, the material Denial and rebutting Of black men from being able to participate In society on certain terms These are not accidental things By any measure These are very strategic and structured And they pan out in terms of our behavior And our relationships Actually come from structural practices So, you know, today we're just kind of Having a conversation, but You know, we've been doing this for years You know, on my channel, you know, BGS Inmore's channel, Green Gorilla's channel Dr. Ron O'Neill and many others Where we've been having these policy conversations About when certain laws were put into place When certain practices were put into place What the reasonings behind that were Because there's so many levels to this You're absolutely right And we don't dodge the Context that you're talking about It's an important part of the conversation But at the end of the day, you know It's a Rot that is at this point Coming from within the community As much as it's coming from outside And we have to be able to be aware of that So we've, you know, I teach Africana studies Right, so we've been dealing with this History, you know, for years And so we've talked about race We've talked about class We've talked about, you know Feminism, we've talked about LGBT We've talked about, but one of the things we haven't Talked about are the ways the gender dynamics Have been implemented to play Against the best interests of the community And how central undermining Black men and black manhood Has been to that dynamic And a lot of people dismiss it as Oh, that's just some macho, whatever No, it's critical When you actually can convince men They have no value and convince women That men have no value either Huge Thank God Y'all be sure to tune in Monday I'm excited to know What your questions of me are You know, because I'm honored that you even Like see what I'm doing And you find value in it, so We're gonna keep pushing this forward Oh yeah, I appreciate you man Because I can't do it, I'm like hey I watched a couple of the questions I was like nah, nah I don't know how you doing it I'm young enough where I'm not As you know As jaded yet Sometimes I get close I'm not gonna lie, sometimes I get Even the interview I did today I recorded an interview today It started off very frustrating We got somewhere but My God I know it may appear that way It's not really jaded as far as me There's a certain exhaustion With having certain conversations If you ever watched the movie Malcolm X Toward the end Right before he died, I think he was like Standing outside of the auto-bomb ballroom In an older woman's room Jesus loves you You kind of saw this look on his face Where he's like I'm a Muslim I've been talking about Christianity Years There's a point where you just go It's akin to that Where it's just like There's certain conversations I've had so many times I can't have them anymore There's another level of conversation That I'm more willing to have And I don't care If it comes from A beautiful sister right here from Cali Or if it comes from across the world If I can have that conversation You got my attention But if it's gonna be the same old Disparaging black men dynamic I'm exhausted More so jaded But anyway brother Thank you so much Dr. Johnson I will see you I'll see you Monday and I'll see you all there as well Yes sir Good night brother Alright guys so like I said Please make sure to go over To Dr. Johnson's channel And hit that subscribe button Watch some content I've been a fan of that man Long before I was relevant You know on YouTube Please go over there Show them some love The titles alone are captivating So go check out his content Tune in Monday On his channel Monday 9 p.m. Eastern 6 p.m. Pacific Apparently he's got some questions for me I'm honored So I'm looking forward To that conversation I learned a great deal from this conversation I'm going to be watching it back I don't know if I'm going to hit the road tonight To Atlanta but There's a project I'm shooting Tomorrow It's going to be powerful It's going to be coming soon I'll probably drop it On or around Father's Day So you guys be on the lookout for that Thank you guys so much All the super chats I know I didn't get around to shouting you guys out But you are appreciated Have a phenomenal weekend Have a good evening We'll see you Monday Bye bye