 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa. It is the Easter period. Specifically today is Good Friday, which actually is an important day in the Christendom. Specifically it is the day that Jesus Christ was, you know, who died rather on the cross of Calvary. And what's the essence, what's the importance of that particular day to the lives of Christians and of course Nigerians generally. We have a pastor who will be joining us now to talk more about that. Let us make a welcome. Pastor Femi Oguza, he is of the Chapel of Transformation. Transfiguration, thanks for joining us this morning on the breakfast. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Let's just dive straight into it. Good Friday, holy week, holy Friday. What's the essence of this particular day? Okay, the Good Friday is actually very important for Christians because of what happened in the Garden of Eden when Adam sinned against God and the Bible says that without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. And so blood, a perfect blood has to be shed to remit for the sin that man committed through Adam. And so Jesus came to die for us so that we, that were once the enemy of God, can actually become a friend of God. And that's the only sense of the Good Friday. So basically the blood has to be spilled and you said something about an important blood. So it's not just about any blood because before now when you talk about making sacrifices, lambs, sheep are being slaughtered and the blood is used for the sacrifice. So this particular one is a human sacrifice, specifically how do you explain it? Okay, now what really happened is that what used to happen in the Old Testament when the blood of animals and bulls were being used, the Bible said they were a shadow of things to come. But the real blood that can really atone for the sin of mankind is the blood of Jesus Christ, who happened to be the Son of God. So Jesus actually came to this world to die for us. The Bible says that for God so loved the world, I gave His only begotten Son. So God gave His Son to shed His blood so that man can be redeemed from sin. So let's progress further and look at the significance of this day. What does this really mean? We know that on this day a lot of people are going to be mounting the Good Friday. It's a Good Friday but now we need down to Christianity and those who are followers of Christ. What does this really mean? Okay, now as I said before that the old essence of the death of Jesus is to reconcile us from being the enemy of God to becoming the friend of God. And the death is as important as the resurrection. Why did they reconcile us back to God? Who received life through His resurrection. Both the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ are really very important to us as Christians. Coincidentally you are with the chapel of transfiguration and at this particular time of the Christian calendar they talk about transfiguration of Christ. Can you break it down for us? Okay, now there are a lot of practices in the Orthodox churches that are not really being practiced in the Pentecostal. Like when you hear about the Palmstone Day it's very common in the Orthodox setting but in the Pentecostal we don't practice it because you don't really see the Palmstone Day bring reading in the Bible. It was just when Jesus wanted to enter into Jerusalem and people were chatting in the sauna and then some people now brought some like a festival to celebrate before Easter. What is significant of the amount of transfiguration is Jesus appearing on the mount with some other Moses came along, Elijah was also there and they were transfigured and he took three of his disciples there, you understand? And the essence of grace, the law and the prophet. Because Jesus was representing grace, Elijah represent the prophet, why Moses represent the law? So that was the whole essence of what happened on the mount of transfiguration. Also you talked about Easter being significant because it makes a man who used to be an enemy of course not to be a friend to God. But in all of this right now it's been years since Jesus died on the cross of Calvary and the man has been reconciled to God. So why would you say that after all of this death and his resurrection that we still have a whole lot of wickedness and evil going on around the world? Okay, now let me say something. For the world to change, the world must embrace Christ. Because the reason why Jesus came is to change the world, you understand? But we have to accept Christ as our Lord and our Savior before we can really explain the transformation we are talking about. But the truth is that even in the church you still see a lot of wickedness in the church today. But these things are not just happening, it's not peculiar to now. If you look at Jude chapter 1 verse 4, the Bible, let me just read it for you quickly. It says that, okay, I say this because some ungodly people have warmed their ways into the church saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live a moral life. Now that was over 2000 years ago. The Bible was talking about wicked people moving into the church telling people that the grace of God allows us to live a moral life. So this wickedness has always been in the church. You have good people, you have bad people in the church. And it's going to continue like that until Christ comes, you understand? It's not possible for you to have everybody in the church perfect because the Bible said that some wicked people will move into the church and they will be telling us that the grace of God allows them to live a moral life. So it's not new. So one would begin to understand because there's been a lot of query and question as regards. I'll stay with the church now Christian because it's a good Friday. If you move around this vicinity you see that their church is almost everywhere as you move. And for those who believe in Jesus Christ and those who believe in the Bible you will know that Jesus was never really associated with anything evil. And every time and every where he went is recorded that he was doing good. And so one would expect that those who are part of Christendom and those who attend church there should be the lifestyle. It should trickle down. It should transform because if you see the... Of course you know, you don't live in space. You live in Nigeria, you live in Lagos and you see the happenings. So you constantly ask yourself who are the persons committing all of this evil, perpetuating this evil and behaving in this act. If we have more churches, should it not translate to having more lives changed? Jesus said that if I come, we must find faith in the world. Meaning that as we are moving towards the end times you are going to start seeing a lot more of atrocity even in the body of Christ than they used to see before. Now the truth is that we are people that are genuinely... that are genuine Christians and they are living a good life. But that does not to say that we don't have many people that are in the church that are not living right. So the question is not attending the church. The question is having that experience. A lot of people don't have that experience. Many people claim that they are born again. They will say that if any man is in Christ, a new creature all things are passing, all things are becoming new. But how many people truly have this experience? Now the pastor can only preach to you. People cannot force you to live the life that is written in the Bible. And that is the reality we have in our community. When I got born again 37 years ago, being born again was not in vogue. People used to laugh at us, they persecute us. Today nobody is persecuting anybody for becoming a Christian. It has become fashionable today to be born again Christian. So it is not like it was in the past before. So it is the reality of the environment. The situation we find ourselves today. The world of God is still being preached. It is just like the parable of the Suwa. The Bible says that the Suwa went out to sow, some fell on good ground, some on rocky ground, some on the way, some among the tongues. The same world affecting the life of somebody positively and not making any impact on the life of another person. So it is not about the church, it is about the people. It is not about the message, it is about the people because you have to make up your mind whether you want to do what the world is saying or not. We should not be the hearers of the world alone but we should be the doers of the world. Some people have argued differently just before Justin comes in because this is our reality. It is a good Friday and it is important that we look at these things as we exist in this space. For instance, some people have created the kind of message that has been put out in the body of Christ. Some people think that this might just also be responsible. The tenets, at the end of the day if you look at the tenets and what Jesus stood for, it would be the fact that it is just simple. It was about love and love solves all the problems of the world, kindness, patience, whatever you want to go on with that. Could it be that the body itself? Not necessarily because you have, for instance you have talked about the orthodox. You have also talked about the Pentecostal. But all of this, would we say that it is still the body of Christ or would we say it is a separate body? Some people have argued that it is more of the message that has been put out. That is really the reason for, as much as some of the points that you have raised have rallied, this is also another problem why you are having the message of Jesus not being reflected in the world that we are living today. I am not actually wouldn't breathe for pastors. You understand? I am just saying the word. Any woman's system is not perfect. The truth is that we are pastors that are preaching the truth and the truth is that we are also pastors that are not preaching the truth. You understand? And as I said, there is no way to enforce any of these. If a pastor is not preaching the truth, how do you enforce it? The system does not permit you to enforce anything. You understand? And so people can, we make a choice where you want to attend and the pastor you want to listen to. The Bible is there for everyone of us to check whether what your pastor is saying is right or not. But the problem we have in our society is that people are not even checking the Bible again. Everybody is just listening to your pastor and that becomes the finer. Is it like people are sorry to bought it? Is it like people are not really checking the Bible or maybe they are checking the Bible but the interpretations they have gotten from people they believe are people they have fellowship with maybe are misconstruing the entire fact because some would quote some scriptures and there would be a different interpretation to it. This pastor might bring one meaning to it and that pastor would say will not bring some Greek, Hebrew connotation at the end of the day. The congregation, the people of Christ are a bit confused. That is what I am talking about the experience. If you really have the experience and if you are born again meaning you have the Holy Spirit on the inside of you you should be able to interpret the Bible without the help of a pastor. Now the Bible talks about the Belian Christian. Now after their postal approach to them they will go inside the scripture confirm whether what they have thought is true or not. And that is the way people should be living now. But the stress thing that sites today people just listen to their pastor people are too lazy to read their Bible people are too lazy to confirm what the pastors are saying on the pulpit and that is what we find and say where we are today. Alright good thing you have said all of that but let's talk about the true essence of Good Friday because there are a whole lot of myths concerning this day. Are there specific do's or don'ts on this Good Friday? We have heard that you are not supposed to you are supposed to just keep a holy attitude a holy ambience around you because it is a holy week you are not supposed to eat meat you are not supposed to eat fish you are not supposed to eat beef specifically I want you to just bring down some of these myths to us. I think all these myths you have just mentioned none of them are in the Bible there is no way of tracing the Bible that should not take meat on Good Friday and Good Friday is a day we appreciate that Jesus gave his life for us but it's not a day to live only earlier than the other days. Is there Good Friday in the Bible? Good Friday specifically? No there was no word Good Friday you understand we know that Friday was on the day that Jesus was crucified and it's called Good Friday because of the essence the reason why Jesus came to die for mankind You are speaking more about the myth go ahead with that I am saying that all these myths are not really in the Bible there is nothing like don't take meat I don't know which other one people are particular about don't take fish all of those are not in the Bible the most important thing is that for us to know that Jesus came he died for us he paid the price for our sin to reconcile us back to God two major things Jesus did on the cross he paid for our sin he also paid for our sickness the Bible said the punishment of our way being is upon him and by his tribe we are healed and so if we understand that essence then we should know that what is needed for us to do in responding to that is to surrender our life to Jesus as our Lord and our Savior because that is how we can take advantage of what Jesus did on the cross so that's what Christians are supposed to do on Good Friday maybe to commemorate it they should remember that it's the day Jesus Christ and they should surrender their lives what else are Christians expected to do today because if you go about them several places you would see a lot of them processions going on to commemorate to remind Christians of what actually happened on this particular day so what are Christians supposed to be doing on Good Friday? today is a day we should spread the good news about what Christ came to do for mankind this is the time we should be telling the world that Jesus actually came to save them so it should be a day of evangelism for us a day to spread the news around a day that people can make up their mind and save Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and I think that the most important thing every believer should do on a day like this okay so I totally understand and would say that yes as much as that's okay to accept Jesus and on this particular day well afterwards what happens because at the end of the day it's about if Jesus were to be with us today if Jesus were to leave with us today what would he be like so what really happens what's the tenet of all of this is it okay to just say yes you're accepting Jesus today and that's it then you're expected to behave in a certain way what exactly is this about because I mean this is a very strong one Christianity is a very strong one and you have not just us in Nigeria talking about it or those people who are in Nigeria who have connected to the Christian you have people across the world who believe in this and so but we constantly I will still make reference to the fact that in all of these spaces you have Christians everywhere but it doesn't really translate if you look at the life of Jesus himself and you have mentioned so generally is it about being principles or rules or it's supposed to be a lifestyle what is the lifestyle I think it's actually about lifestyle the Bible says if anyone is in crisis in your creature so what are we expected to see okay now I've worked in an institution before before I went to full time banking the question is as somebody in Karya do you take bribe what is the quality of life do you live do you take advantage of people in the office what will your colleagues say about you Christianity is a way of life in any environment you find yourself people will be able to define you identify you as Christian you must be a light that shines in the midst of darkness you understand so and I believe that even in your own career you must have come across some Christians that are unique that will not be bribe that will not tell lies that is going on around we see people like that in Nigeria there may not be many but we see people like that and that's the only thing that will be coming in Christian because if anyone is in crisis it's a new creature all things are passing away and all things are becoming and I see standard in that world that should be the experience for every Christian and the fact that we have so many people doing wicked things does not mean that we don't have people the Christian who the Christian actually is but let's talk about on what basis Christianity is founded because there is an argument I just need to get a bit of clarity is Christianity founded on Good Friday or on Easter or Christmas Christianity actually the word Christianity actually came up in Antioch and the word was they were called Christians because they were living or behaving like Christ so the word Christianity actually means these people are behaving like Christ living like Christ so the word did not come on Easter during Easter or during Pentecost the word actually came after people have started giving their life to Jesus and the community started seeing the quality of their lifestyle and they said these people are Christians alright so basically they leave after the way of Jesus Christ did so let's move further because I mean in this real sense the Bible would say that we ought to be the light Christians should be the light those words like that in the Bible in the light of the things that are going on in the country you look at the killings, you look at all sort of things that are happening what role do Christians really have and how can they bring about positive change okay I think some of these things let me give an instant of the issue of the Osin actually the woman that died the Gospel singer okay from what we are hearing, okay she's a Christian or she was a Christian the Osban also attended the same church with her now if you look at the Bible there are the Bible stated conditions that can lead to separation in marriage the Bible said in Malachi that God had a divorce but when Jesus was talking he said the man should not live his life except in the case of adultery the one who opposed to Paul was talking he said when you have an unbelieving partner and the unbelieving partner is willing to live then the other partner who is a believer is willing to live under any bondage so the question is who is an unbelieving partner if a man is beating his wife is he a believer or a non-believer if a man is beating his wife is automatically a non-believer because that attitude, that behavior is not Christ-like now the Bible said if that unbelieving Osban is willing to live how do you communicate that you don't want this marriage if you are beating a woman you may not be a far back communication that I don't want you in this marriage and so if a woman decides to live your husband because it means abuse because abuse shows that you don't want this woman in this marriage the Bible is clear about all of this you understand some of the things that are happening in our society we know upon if people follow the word of God clearly you understand so the Bible is clear because this man is a non-believer he has communicated it not verbally but by action in this marriage then the woman is not born to live you understand what I am trying to say so now people are talking about the Osban as if how can a Christian be beating the the wife but what makes a Christian is your lifestyle it's not the fact that you attend the church that you are attending the church is not enough to justify that you are a Christian I told you the origin how the world Christianity came about they saw a group of people but because of their lifestyle they said these people are Christians that's on the one side on the other side because Christians don't live outside they don't live in a space they live within the same space as every other person so the question now is in the light of all of the happenings that's going on you see the corruption, you see the brutality you see the killings, you see the lying you see everything that's going on what role do Christians have to play in a positive light looking at it what can Christians who live in this space do to bring about positive change as I've said our role is to just make a difference anywhere we are today I'm a pastor but in some years I used to work in the bank and for many years I was the head of IT of a bank I was in a position where I could take bribe from people you understand but my record is clean among here I'm talking most of my vendors would be looking at me I don't take bribe from anybody so anywhere we are we have to shine the light so doing the writing in your own little way the old world may not be seeing you but in that your little corner just ensure that you do the writing but the problem we have is that we are more people that are doing wickedness there are few people that are doing the writing so it seems to overshadow the people that are doing the writing and people don't want to even recognise that we see a pocket of people in different situations that are doing the writing in this country we only focus on the people that are doing the batting but what I have seen we see are Christians that are doing the writing in this country there may not be many but we see there are people that are shining in that light they may be shining the light they might be doing the right thing, but you think Christians are being vocal enough they're actually being seen and also being heard concerning all of them, the pressure that we find ourselves in the society. Well, if Christian maybe spoke a little more or maybe in a react more concerning all of these issues I will not be having all of these rifts that we have in the country. But you know what I've also discovered about being vocal is that you may have something to say, but you may not have the audience. If you look at our newspapers, what you see there most of the things you see there are paid for and I'm telling you the truth, the renews many of them are being suppressed because nobody is paying for it. No, but I beg to differ, you know we live in a time where you have the social media which has become a very powerful tool. For instance, we talk is a micro blogging platform just that one tweet. It goes global, it goes viral. I mean it reaches the entire world beyond where you would think that you probably would have traveled to. And so that's the beauty of living in the world where there's development, of course this would not be by human power, knowledge has been given and that would definitely come from God. And so that's it. So I don't think that Christians would constantly make excuses for all of this because if you have my major concern here is we seem to have a population of people who profess to be Christians or who say we are followers of Christ but at the end of the day you look at the society that crime and criminality is dominance and then you ask yourself what is really going on because if you look at the tenets and the teachings of Jesus Christ himself it's really that everywhere he was he was doing good there was never any evil associated with him and even when he was angry it was because people turned his father's temple to a place of trading and that was when he was angry and some people say that's holy anger. So the question is why don't we have all of this? So mostly beyond putting the rhetorics and putting the words there people would say that the lifestyle like you have mentioned should be an example by your lifestyle people would say oh this set of persons are really different and what do they stand for? What do they believe just beyond the scripture? But looking at it again as we begin to course forward the 2023 general elections is here. I know that churches and Christians some person would say oh no we cannot be part of politics and that's because politics is politics but we cannot, I don't know where we got the division of saying oh there's a secular and then there's a Christian because we all buy in the same market there's no market for Christians and market for secular people. So what should we, what should people, Christians now be doing? The elections are here we have seen how government policy has affected everyone. What should Christians be doing at this point in time? I think what is important for us as Christians when we talk about the fourth coming election is that everyone of us should go out there and vote. But you know the problem with this country is you see a lot of politicians some of them have the right personality but they don't have the right capacity. Some people have capacity they don't have good personality. So at the time when you look at the politicians that are parading you'll say you don't even know which one you want to cast your vote on. So it's a serious issue we have in this nation because in the days of Zina Deco the same people that were fighting against the military government eventually find themselves in power and yet we don't see any difference. So the case is looking hopeless but as a pastor what I was telling my congregation is that look at all the contestants find the one that you feel is suitable for you because I can't recommend anybody for them to vote for it has to be their own choice but we're encouraging people to vote and also to participate in politics and we hope that one day we will start seeing changes in our country. All right we must say a very big thank you to you Dr. Femi Ogunsoya. Pastor Femi Ogunsoya. Pastor, I was calling you doctor Pastor Femi Ogunsoya for sharing your thoughts and understanding Good Friday, what it is, what it is not and what questions are supposed to do so they can live and peacefully amongst some residents in Nigeria. Thank you so much for your time. The pleasure is mine. Thank you so much Pastor for coming. Thank you. All right, it is still the breakfast in Plastif Africa. We'll take a quick break and we'll come talk some more a whole lot to expect on the show this morning. Stay with us.