 You're welcome back, it's still plus politics and we did promise you that when we return we're going to be talking something else. The Independent National Electoral Commission, INEG, has warned politicians and their supporters against bullying and hate speeches during electioneering campaigns. Dr. Hurley Longpad, Kogi resident electoral commissioner, gave the warning during the commission's engagement with representatives of political parties, traditional rulers and religious and community leaders in Lokoja, Kogi state. Longpad said that the warning became necessary because due to recent cases of abuse and derogatory statements issued or used by party candidates against one another. And joining us live to discuss this is Alessia Wilcox, a public affairs analyst, and we're hoping to be joined by Adewale Ademola, who is also a public affairs analyst. In the meantime, Alessia is standing by. Alessia, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me, it's my utmost pleasure, thank you. Okay, well, we're talking about bullying in the political space. Let's try to get a context here. What would you describe as bullying when it comes to politics and politicking? Well, the word bullying, I wouldn't want to know how in what context I'm going to speak in the political campaign. I think bullying mainly has to do with when a, I mean, a junior person is having a taken advantage over somebody that is most senior to the person. So that's where bullying comes in. But when we are dealing with political campaign, I think every one of them is equal footing because nobody's master or servant in that kind of relationship. So the word bullying, I don't know where that would come from. But if you look at hate speech, yes, hate speech can be situated in the context of a political, of a politicking. Because doing politicking, politicians seems to employ all kinds of tactics, sometimes to instigate and to incite. I see speakers of you, when you use speeches, when you use words that are inciting to the other person that will incite the public on institution against the other person. So I think that's, I think you can say more in that space. But as for bullying in politics, if you are not strong, then you don't go to the ring because all kinds of things will be thrown at you. And all you need to do is to also throw back and see where, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean how it goes. So I like it is right to question political parties. Of course, their continuous question of political parties will, they don't have to create stability within the, within the policy, so it's part of their responsibility to moderate political parties, how they go about their campaign. So, they're perfectly in order. Yeah, but when they were trying to define what bullying is, what you defined or what you also mentioned as hate speech was a part of it and they use specifically that you're using derogatory words against your opponent or words that will bring down the image of that person just because you want to climb to the top. So their definition is quite broad, but it's almost like it's a norm in Nigeria that when they are politicking, when they are campaigning, they use this kind of words a lot of times they don't even speak to the issues that need to be spoken to and you have said that when you want to join politics and you want to contest, you should expect those kind of things, should we continue like this because we need to hear what plans they have, not how to bring down the next person. No, you see, we cannot say because we are Africans and we respect elders or we respect people or we want to cover or so to say and then we do not present the candidates the way they are. Part of politicking is to bring out the character of the other kind of opponents and bring out his antecedents. It's everywhere. I don't think our politics is that bad as like that of the Americans where we copy from or that of the Britain where we copy from. As you were back, what you did in secondary school, we brought to the table against you and that has cost a lot of candidates their positions or even their nomination. So I don't see anything wrong in presenting or extreme candidates. That is part of the politics. It's not too out of the ordinary. You must bring out the character of the candidate. It's allowed. But you don't bring out falsehood. What you do not need out to do is falsehood, deliberate falsehood on a thing that you know it is not true and you are presenting it as to be true. And then secondly, you are instigating either a tribal section or ethnic section or religious sentiment, bringing it up against a candidate, against a party. That for me is a no-no. But if you're talking about people's antecedents, people's past record, track record, people's record, people's actions and inaction in the past. Of course, this is a part of politicking. They must be brought to the fore because for Nigerians, for people to make up their mind as to who to vote, we must show that person both his character, both his past, his antecedents and what is it today. So I don't see anything wrong in that. We must bring out the candidates and we must express them. That is obviously part of the politicking. But you don't bring falsehood. You don't create lies against the candidate. You do not say things that you know in your mind. You know this is not true. You don't call out the things. If it is clearly what a candidate is, put it out there for Nigerians to know that's candidate. So that people will make up their minds as to who they want to vote for. So not falsehood or hate speech. I mean, I don't see you presenting candidates' character or candidates' antecedents as bullying. It's not bullying. It's not hate speech. You're only presenting them. And it happens everywhere. People must attack the character of the other person because the character of that person is what brings them to office. His antecedent is what brings them to office. Somebody who has nothing to offer, who has had nothing to offer, whose background, I mean, whose past work cannot, I mean, has nothing to, I mean, I mean, let me use the program to verify about. And then you're not saying, when people bring that kind of thing out, it is a hate speech. No, it's who the person is. But don't bring falsehood. As long as a man is promoting, is promoting tribal violence or a demographic ethnic agenda or is promoting religious agenda. Those are obvious lies. And so that's what constitutes speech. And so those are the things that was the guidance. But talking about the candidates and their character and their antecedents, I think that is to be allowed. That should be encouraged. So an engineer will know the truth of the persons that they have, that they want to give their mandate to, so that they can verify their actions and inaction in line with what they're saying at present. But sometimes these things, the real issues get lost in this trying to expose the other person. It's like you're asking out a woman and then you're trying to run down the present boyfriend just to get what you're supposed to get and not promising anything. So we tend to lose what these people who are coming, who are saying that they are going to govern us, are going to do. They don't say it. And they just tell us about the next person and leave what their programs are. Are we not losing enough information that we should have used for or against these people in just the cause of trying to expose the next person? No, we're not losing. Every party has its manifesto. Every political party has its manifesto. And politicians go about selling their manifesto. That's where they have 10-hole meetings. They don't go to 10-hole meetings and start criticizing their opponents. They have 10-hole meetings. They have campaign rallies. They have all the engagements with stakeholders. That is where they sell their manifesto. So they have ample platform to sell their manifesto. But even the cost of selling your manifesto or in the cost of answering questions, you take a jab at your opponent, which is allowed, which is normal. It doesn't prohibit the party not selling your manifesto. I'm sure that all the political parties they have their manifesto, they have it in written form. They have it in booklets form. And they have distributed it. I'm sure they've grown far and wide all the people that they could distribute to. I'm sure they also have the campaign rallies, where they go, and also reverse those manifestos. They also have public spaces. For instance, the APC President candidate was at Chatham House, where he delivered his manifesto, where he answered question-building, but what do most Nigerians do? You see, sometimes the Nigerians are the most funny people. Rather than listening to what the manifesto, the APC candidate went to present at Chatham House, they are looking for the force on the things he didn't do right, or why he has to pass questions to his team to answer. As far as that place is concerned, he didn't talk about his opponents. He talked about his favorite manifesto, and it was widely publicized. And rather than, if you ask most Nigerians are talking about why they didn't pass question A to B, ask them what the man said. They will all be lost. They don't know what the man said. All they are after is to find critical thoughts in what he did and what he did not do. So even when Nigerians were also very, very complex, even where the candidates are presenting their programs, we are not looking at the programs. We are looking at how to ridicule the candidates. But they are selling their programs. So let us pay more attention to listen to their programs, and pay less attention to the jobs. You must do the jobs. It's not strange. You must do the jobs. Today, Donald Trump's tax records is a source of good news, right from when he was running for office, when he left office, even though he wanted to run again. His character, his businesses are off of scrutiny. So nobody should be against, I mean, Joe Biden's son is, Joe Biden's son is, I mean, I mean, I mean, he's been investigated, which invasion will also touch the father. So these are part and parcel of politicking. If you know you cannot stand the heat, then don't enter the kitchen, because that is where, that's the place that is hot, and you are, you'll be extract. It's not, it's not a, it's not a religious setting, where you say the touchdown of my 90, don't do my pride, no harm. Neither is it a traditional setting, where I say the king does not do wrong. So this is, this is a political setting, quite different from the, the religious environment, different from the, from the traditional environment, but where your countries will vote. So your character, your conduct, your antecedent must all come to the fore. For Nigeria to make adequate choices. And who is best to expose this thing, whether it's other than your opponents. Your opponents should have to debate you that they were exposed. But listen, but what I'm saying is, people should say you don't see lies. You don't spread falsehood. You don't spread things that are not real. You must look for your facts, you must get your facts clear, and you must present those that are factual, not hate speech, not things that will, that is inciting tennis against the, either the constituency or against their, I mean their people, or essentially of the country. No, those are hate speech. But in terms of throwing the jabs, we must show the jabs, and the jabs will be thrown. That is what politics is all about. Okay. Well, you mentioned Chatham House. There's so much to talk about, but that will be digressing. So let's talk for another day. But in the meantime, I was laughing inside when you were talking about the manifesto, because was it the former president of Lusie Goomba Sanjo who said that if you want to hide something from a Nigerian, put it in a book, because Nigerians don't like to read. Okay. But if you give them the opportunity to hear you talk, it does a whole lot of good to them and all that. They can make their choices and all that. But now the question is, if these are very, very normal things in the political setting, when every time they gather after four years in what I would like to call a political Olympic, to do what they do, bring down the opponent so that their own star will shine, what then is the need for INEC to even issue this warning? How is it going to impact on the next election? How is it going to make a difference by just issuing this warning? Well, that's always a borderline. And I've just said that that's always a borderline. And that borderline is when you begin to incite and throw things that are not true. That's a borderline. And so these are the red lines that you must not cross. These must not be confined to factual issues, truths, things that are verifiable, things that are real, things that are true about the candidates. So these are within the confines of any politically, but not to go overboard or to go beyond the borderline. So that's why INEC needs to watch what is happening because if you allow men, like some of the people that I see speak, of course, sometimes they go overboard. I mean, they go overboard on all spectrum. You know, they go overboard. So you must always be guided by the code. There are codes of operation. And nobody says the local sales should not expose the debts of your opponents. These are parts of politicking. Who is best to expose the character or the inaction of the opponent other than the contestant themselves? That's why in a race, everybody runs to win. So those are the things. But you don't run in another man's track. Okay. I'm sorry. So talking about Nigeria has talked with it. Yes, that is clear. But who do you blame? You know, if manifestos have been shared to everybody to do their plans and you don't want to read it, all your apps are used to look at the man's age or the man's what to speak, what he didn't speak, how he pronounced his word. There you are the one. That is the problem, not the candidate. And again, the candidates also are probably manifestos. Like I said, they have town hall meetings. They have press conferences. They have town hall meetings. They have rallies. And you see, let me also show these things. Most of the jobs do not come from the candidate themselves. Not all the jobs come from their, I mean, their media men or their team. Not from the candidates themselves. The candidates are busy selling Nigerians, selling the candidates, they are probably Nigerians. Well, of course, their media men or their council members are the ones that take on the opponents vis-à-vis whatever they can, because the candidates don't have the time. But once in a while, the campaigner is asking questions, demonstrate jobs as the opponent. But the main dirty job is done by the handlers. And we have seen it very much in this campaign. So that is just, as I'm concerned, there must be a borderline which you don't cross and which, of course, when you want to cross it, the authorities must call it order. And INEC is doing that in order to see that there's this sanity within the, within the, within the policy. Okay, just a quick one there. Just a follow-up there. When you mentioned INEC, some people have expressed worry that INEC may not be equipped enough to carry out all the things that we expect them to carry out. And they are also saying they will carry out. Vote-buying, they will prosecute the people, people who do hate speech, they will prosecute them, and so many things that they have mentioned. And some people are proposing that a body should be set up that can handle electoral problems that INEC should focus on organizing and executing elections. Do you buy that proposal or you have a different idea about it? Can INEC handle everything that they are proposing? Well, in time past, it has always been said that INEC is overboding with all the processes that has to do with election from voter registration to registration of political parties to conduct a election, and then defend the electoral results in court. And now talking about prosecution of misdemeanors within the electoral processes. I think that would be too much really. If you ask me that would be quite, quite too much on one particular body. INEC do not prosecute the police do. INEC do not even have the power to arrest the police do. So it is not the duty of INEC to prosecute vote buyers. It is duty of the police, because INEC do not have its own security of course. They do not have their own prosecute officers. What INEC is a civil organization. So if there is, so those other persons, those in security, those in other, I mean stakeholders within the electoral processes, so they should be more involved. But that is not to say that INEC cannot be unbounded. Maybe this is about political party registration and maintenance should go to different body. About voter registration should go to different body. And then INEC concentrate on, and then this about security of all those other aspects, should also be more intimate within the police or the court agencies. So that INEC concentrate. But really, if you look at all the, all that the law gave by INEC, it is being unbounded. And most of them they cannot do it. INEC cannot prosecute. INEC cannot arrest. I said the court agencies to do that. So it's like giving the man a responsibility that he needs, he needs and that person to solve for him. So I mean, it's a matter of, I'll put it that way. But as not to say that INEC has not been performing all this while telling that elections don't matter how imperfect. They keep improving on the electoral process every year, every time there's election. So let's keep encouraging them. This is just 24 years of democracy. I'm sure by time we'll, but I mean others took them long time to even get it, get it right. So we are 24 who are still, I'm sure we're not doing badly at all with respect to this electoral process. We're not doing badly. Although we can do better. We can really do better. But let's also, let's also have to fit in the same way, we're not doing badly. And keep going INEC. I think that the need to embody that INEC, to add to, I mean to smaller units so that there will be more efficiency within the system. Just finally now, 2023 is around the corner. The election is like 75 days away or so. And a lot of people have expressed confidence that this is going to be like a decider for Nigeria. It's going to be something a little bit different from what we've been experiencing, except for June 12, that was like the free, freeest and fairest election that the history, we have ever recorded in the history of Nigeria, the option A4. But people have so much faith in the next election. If you also have this much faith, what are the things that are giving you so much faith in the 2023 election that is going to be a really good one? Or at least better than what we've had in some years now? I'm not fit in all of the election. Every year I've seen me, I've got some votes. And my votes count, even if my candidates have voted non-win all the elections. So I have explicit confidence in the process. I have fit in the election, just as I've had. The only difference in this election is that there's a heightened expectation because unlike before, when there are two dominant parties, now we have a third fold that is also showing some strength within certain constituency. So it's going to be very interesting because people now have more than one option. And that's also a fourth candidate. A lot of them talk about Kwakwansu. People considered on talking about Tobii, BAT and their TIKU. People don't talk about Kwakwansu. Of course, Kwakwansu is also a fourth that costs a lot of votes off some of that candidate. While P2B is also going to chop up a lot of votes from a particular candidate, Kwakwansu will also do the same. But the truth of the matter is Nigerians are expectants. The mobilisation is very high. People want to go out and cut. That's why I see that those who registered during the restriction processes are very much and that should top the electoral register. And now people are looking at PBC. People are interested in the election. The aspirations are very high. The interest is high. That is the only difference. The interest is high. And people talk about it everywhere. There's, apart from the two dominant parties, there's a third candidate that's also pulling with. And people are talking about it. So it's good. And that's why the campaign processes were expected to be more of a rancourous one. Because you must, before you be doing one candidate, you are talking about two dominant opponents. So you must be able to do things to which is credit them and make sure that your opponent is very well. So let's, let's be hopeful. Let's be very expectant. Let's hope that INEQ will live up to his expectation. And let's hope that the season we have them say it is, it is, INEQ can do their own bit, but it is we that will give ourselves on the day of election, another election. And I said the result as it comes in, not because it's a candidate that you've been hyping aspect of me, you know me, they want to bring down heaven. So you want to think that the election was rigged. Now your own best is to come back with a candidate, be able to sell a candidate and sell him very well, not insulting people, not being rude, not being forceful, not violent. Let's sell your candidate and sell him with all his part, our citizens and credentials and all what you think and selling me. And that is the only way that we can go for us to have a perfect election that will be peaceful before, during and most importantly after the election. Okay. Thank you very much Alesta for being a part of our program today. It's wonderful having you. It's my pleasure. Thank you. I'm always available. Thank you. Thank you. We've been talking with Mr. Alesta Wilcox. It's unfortunate we couldn't be joined by Deweyle at Demola. He will be with us another day. And we were talking about the warning that I and I gave to the political parties and their contestants, people who are standing to gain political positions in 2023 should be mindful of what they say during this campaigning. Don't bring down the other person. Like Alex Alesta said, if you're bringing down the next person, let everything you say be true. But we're expecting that 2023 will be a decider for Nigeria and let's hope that you too will play your part. If you're up to 18, go out and vote. Get your PVCs now. PVCs are very close to you these days until the 15th of January. After that, you might not have the opportunity to go very close by to get your PVCs until you go to the local government headquarters. So do yourself this favor. Let's make Nigeria the Eldorado we've always dreamed of. Until we meet again tomorrow, same time, my name is Nyam Gul Aghaji, signing out.