 into like a little teeny tiny shoes or like in Africa, the women with the long necks and they'll actually, you know, try to put that banding, I think on the women's neck. So it's a longer, you know, stretch of the neck. So those are welcome back. So those are, you know, a couple of kind of the more extreme ideas of beauty, but there's been dozens and dozens of studies that have gone out there and looked at what is, what are the commonalities? What are the things that make a woman beautiful and man beautiful across culture? And so I've done cross culture, you know, cross social lines research on this. And obviously, if you've ever read anything like the selfish gene or the red queen or anything that has to do with evo bio, men are all, no, men and women are looking for symmetry. They're looking for a, you know, a facial symmetry. They're looking for a body symmetry. For men, it's that V taper. It's a strong jaw line. There's masculine eyes features that are arousing to women that is cross cultural. For women, it is the hourglass, the hips to waist ratio. I'm sure we've all heard about that. And so there are particular standards that we use across cultures that I think the idea of body positivity is trying to recondition into us right now. The question is, why are they trying to reestablish or redefine what should and should not be beautiful about a woman? It's never about men. That's, that's other things. I've got another, another great post called women's physical standards and the physical standards that men, four men, that women have four men have not changed in forever. There's never been a Rubinesque era for women. They've never liked fat chicks or anything like that. They've never, you know, like fat guys, they've never, they've never been into that. They've always been into that athletic build, that classic Greco-Roman look, you know, muscularity definition, the classic, you know, bodybuilders, you know, size, and I was saying size, but certainly that definition and that look is something that, that women are always going to be standardized on. And so I kind of take issue when women say, well, men have these impossibly high beauty standards and we just can't, you know, and they've been conditioned to think that, that this particular, you know, this porn star with big tits and blonde hair and blue eyes and everything is the definition of beauty today. And if you go and you look through history, that's bullshit. We look at, and even today, I think if you look at, what's this, there's a book called A Billion Wicked Thoughts and it's one of these books where they go and they take stats for guys' preferences and for women's preferences. And it's also, it was done kind of earlier so it was done from like Pornhub and some of these porn sites as to, you know, what are men's fetishes? And if you go and you look at the difference and the niches of porn that are out there, men have a huge variety of ideals for what beauty is and what gets them off. So for some guys, it might be fat chicks. For other guys, it might be really thin chicks or it might be really pale chicks or, you know, every hair color of the rainbow or it might be Asian women, it might be black women, it might be whatever kind of women. And so there's such a, just a panoply of attractions and arousals for men whereas for women, it is almost always going to be this standard athletic hot fireman look to that guy. So when women say that, you know, men have impossibly high beauty standards, tell them to go fuck themselves because they are the ones who have the higher more static standards for an idealized beauty from masculinity. Now, what this comes, now what comes back to here is why is it that there is a push from the feminine imperative to make grossly overweight women the ideal. Why are we trying to pretend that test holiday is something that should define beauty, that should be something that women will celebrate as beauty. And the reason I get into this, and if you've read my kind of Twitter stream or my Twitter thread on this, it's my belief that this is an effort in social engineering. And that social engineering is meant to, again, facilitate hypergamy for the largest pool of women. Meaning that fat women should be able to get, should be able to have at least some kind of access to higher value men, okay? What is hyper, yeah, we laugh at that, but that is really the point of this, is it's to allow the largest number of women to have greater access to a larger pool of men. So if men are saying, I don't want to have anything to do with fat chicks, they want to shame that. They want to shame that for the guy for saying that it's shameful because you've been conditioned by society, quote unquote society, to believe that this, you know, rail thin, beautiful, hot chick who's in shape to be aroused by that, well, no, it's not. I evolved for that. The reason that I get erection every time I see a playboy centerfold is not because I was conditioned or I saw this particular woman all my whole life. And so therefore that's what I fixate on. It's because that is my natural response to a particular body type, to that physical ideal that is part of our mental firmware. It's something that we're born with to be aroused by certain qualities of view where we're kind of subconsciously looking for those cues. We're looking for that hip to waist ratio. We're looking for large tits. We're looking for an ass. I mean, maybe it's different for some cultures and for some different social demographics. I think black guys like bigger butts than maybe most white guys do. Okay, we can argue about that. And we cannot lie. And they cannot lie, right? But the thing is, is the reason that they are trying to condition men to find a woman like Tess Holiday attractive or to find her arousing is because what that does is it opens up a larger pool of men for women to pull from to optimize hypergamy. I don't know if I'm making myself clear in that. It's that there is a set standard that men are going to have that's part of our innate evolved mental firmware. What they're trying to do really is the effort in social engineering. So that's why we say, well, it's body positivity or men just don't understand that this is a healthy weight. No, it's not a healthy weight. You are unhealthy, but why do you insist on trying to convince the larger portion of men that they should be aroused by this first of all and then second of all, why are you trying to condition that out of men? What is the point? What is the latent purpose of you trying to pretend that someone like Tess Holiday or even, I mean, Tess Holiday is gross, okay? She's grossly overweight. She is morbidly obese. She would not fit. I mean, my wife saw this picture of Tess Holiday. My wife works in, she's a CT scanner. She said Tess Holiday would not fit in a standard CT machine if she ever needed to. And she was saying that a woman of her size, depending on where she was, a woman of her size would not fit, would not be able to get on the table because it only goes up to a certain weight class. And if Tess were to come in and there was something to be wrong with her heart or something like that, and they needed to do a CT scanner or an MRI for that matter, they would literally have to send someone like her to a large animal hospital. They would have to send her and put her into a CT scanner that was built for a horse, okay? So that you could put the horse on the scanner and scan the horse and they would have to put her on there. Depending on where, if she's at a large metropolis, maybe not. But if she's in any other place, they're gonna have to put a woman on it. So it's unhealthy. But why do we insist on that? Why do we insist on shaming men? Because they say, well, your body's shaming, your fat shaming is like, no, that's just not what I prefer. But if I say that, then I'm shamed. But they should not be shamed. So I just wanna hop in because the health component, like the self-care nature of this conversation that we're kind of opening up here, I think is the basis of it. I mean, the attraction component straightforward. I mean, like we know through our history, when you go back to the old statues that they chiseled out of Marble or whatever they did and the Mediterranean, they never made any statues of fat women. It was all lean cut men and curvy women. And curvy from the sense of like an hourglass, like a Coke bottle, kind of like Marilyn Monroe. They never chiseled out test holiday type statues. I mean, it's pretty consistent. But I mean, like the health problems that come along with obesity, that they're trying to pander on women on the cover of a magazine like Cosmopolitan is absolutely bonkers to me. We're talking things like diabetes. We're talking things like really bad joints. Like I've seen people that are that overweight that come up a flight of stairs and they're huffing and puffing like their hearts can explode. You know, cardiac problems, all kinds of stuff. I mean, you can go right down the list on stuff like this. It's just absolutely nuts that they try to sell this. And, you know, beyond all of that stuff, I mean, Rolo basically nailed it out. We could just drop the mic and turn off the broadcast from here and just be like, we're done and start taking calls. But I don't know, like I want to pass around the panel. Like what was your take on that, Donovan? Because I saw that you shared that also on Twitter as well. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm actually looking at Tess Holiday's Wikipedia page and her weight isn't listed, isn't it? It is actually listed towards the bottom at 285 pounds, but there's no way she weighs 285 pounds. And somebody was telling me that she's actually three bills right now. Oh, she's well over 300. Yeah, and she's, check this out. She's 5'3", right? So another service, oh my God. So she's basically a square, like a rectangle. It's unbelievable. She's a blob. She's like Jabezahut. There you go. Obviously, this kind of thing promotes obesity. And I love it when guys say things like, oh, but she's got a cute face. No, dude, if she's fat, her face is fat. Fat faces aren't cute. Somebody in the chat said, Ashley Graham is hot from the neck up. Well, here's the problem. From the neck down, she's fat. So that doesn't mean her, like I'm not trying to hear she's got a cute face to qualify her beauty. No, Ashley Graham is a train wreck. Ashley Graham is not attractive. She's fat. Like that's just all there is till I'm not trying to hear that. Beauty does not come in all shapes and sizes. Beauty only comes in a few shapes. Round isn't one of them. And it's also worth noting that body positivity isn't about body positivity. It is literally about accepting fat women. Not men, it's just fat women. There are never any body positive movements for women who aren't fat. I actually wrote an article on Return of Kings years ago about the protein world. They used a scantily clad model. It actually got a little bit of a run on it from Paul Joseph Watson on Infowars about it. And of course, feminist and fat women completely lost their minds when they featured an attractive woman. Of course, surprise, surprise. Something else to note here is women like to say, well, men have impossibly high beauty standards. They use that as an excuse not to get fit. It's akin to the same rationale that women use to be slut. Well, men only want to marry women who are tins. So I guess I'll, I'm not going to get married anyway. So I guess I'll just be a slut. She's doing what's easy. As far as men being conditioned to like a certain type of women, we're not conditioned to anything. We like what we like. Women aren't conditioned to like men who are fit any more than we are. No, this is in our genes, this is in our genetics. Men and women alike are genetically programmed to want to procreate with, with attractive specimens of the opposite sex. Fat girls aren't attractive specimens any more than fat guys are. I used to be fat. I got made fun of all that. Well, I didn't get made fun of, but yeah, people would use, use looking point, right? 300 and some odd pounds. That's what got my ass in gear. People shame me. I got my ass in the shape. Well, you guys are brainwashed by porn. No, we know what we like. And to finish this off here, women always like to use apex fallacies or these extreme examples again, to use them as an excuse not to get fit. Men only like rail thin girls or super skinny girls or twigs, right? They'll never be that. So what they do is they want to shame it to give themselves an excuse to do what's easy, which is eating cheeseburgers and pizza and fried chicken all day. Test holiday, just like Rola said, is gross. She's not even close to attractive. And what this does is, here's the thing guys, here's the thing. I want to point this out. Women who are lauding test holiday for being the supermodel, they know Tess is not attractive. They know she's not attractive. Test holiday wishes she were five, three and 115 pounds. She wishes that, but she doesn't have the temperance. She doesn't have the self-control to do that. So she's just gonna eat her way onto Cosmopolitan magazine and be praised basically for shoveling food down her throat. In another year, she'll probably be around 400 pounds. And then, guess what? She can actually spend that into making a special appearance on maybe the biggest loser. And then after that, she can be on my 600 pound life, right? Like she can really parlay this into some serious money. But test holiday is not attractive. And I think men and women alike know and understand that. Let's not pretend that girls actually believe that test holiday is attractive. She's not, and they know it. Let's pass it off over to Carl. What was your take on that Cosmo cover? Well, other than the requirement for eye bleach, I think of the whole body positivity thing as, I think of it as a marketing campaign because it's really trying to build a market demand for what is really a niche fetish. Like, Donovan and I have choked on previous podcasts about how chicks on my 600 pound lives for some strange reason always have husbands and boyfriends. There are usually beaters and the women are the TV's. So the guys get off on getting these girls as big as possible. And that's a fetish. But when you look at those guys they're generally not the high value type. So what I'm thinking they're trying to do is push the fat fetish from a niche sexual market into the mainstream. And it's kind of an attempt to socially condition people. Because while I agree with Rolo you can't change of old preference because either your dick gets harder or doesn't. I mean, you can't really, my dick is not a social construct. It's a hydraulic system. No, it is. You'll never be able, well you'll never be able to socially condition a man to find any kind of woman attractive. But I will tell you, I spent six months on a Chinese industrial lot at one point. And the only women there were about, yeah, 50 years old in a fairly high BMI and they had that classic worn down after 40 years of hard labor camp look. And once you got out of there pretty much anything under 40 at a normal BMI looked pretty good. So your preference does change a little bit depending on what's available to you. That's why we bring up things like thirst traps. We bring up these data men who are just deprived completely and any woman who gives them attention is good attention. So you can't change it a little bit but I don't think you're ever going to have a majority of men saying, no, I'm not going to go for that hot model over there. I want the 300 pound girl with weights with the tattoos. Yeah. And I think there's a part of that strategy with Cosmopolitan where like print media is dying, television media is kind of dying. And it's like, they figure, well, we've pandered to attractive curvy women with boobs and butts for a while now. So let's put Jabba the Hutt on the cover and see if we can get some magazine sales in the United States or the obese categories. I think it's a UK publication, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it has the pound sign on it. Right, yeah, yeah. So I mean, like, you know, an interesting thing that I noticed about the UK because I don't go there very often anymore because most of my family's moved here now but the last time I was there was last spring when I did the 200 mile an hour challenge. And you know, I rented a car and I'm driving to where I got to get. It was about a three hour drive. I did a few rest stops and restaurants and you know, bed and breakfast and stuff. And everywhere I went, the majority of the British have become obese from what I saw. I think it's different in, you know, larger, more cosmopolitan towns like London, for example, but the British are getting bigger. Like they're eating shittier food. Most of the food that's available is highly processed, low nutritional value and like high in crap and sugars and salts just because it tastes good. People like to eat it. But I think the general trend even in certain parts of Europe is they're getting lazy and they're just shoveling the wrong things in their face. So they're trying to normalize it. Anthony, I want to pass it off to you to get your feedback on this Cosmo cover. Yeah, sure. So you guys are hitting it from a red pill perspective, a health perspective, a pergamy and stuff like that. When I saw the first thing that came to mind was Jack Donovan's comment on like the dystopian clown world, which I don't think he invented but it kind of rings a, it really rings a bell from the speech last year at the convention. So when I look at this cover, I see the opposite of Ernak's, excuse me, art, but beauty. But it's being presented as beauty and like Rolla said, she's gross. This is disgusting. So I look at it philosophically. Like this is, it's not just feminism. It's not just body positivity nonsense. It's basically a woman who's a loser. And with respect for the men who are attracted to this, like it's fun. But this woman is like very, very objectively and healthy and it's gross. And the fact that it's not just being presented out there and has all these issues is being presented as beautiful. And I think that's a real insult to people who take care of themselves, men and women both. So from that perspective, almost like a Goldman, you know, RT perspective, I think it's really fucked up. And it's horrible. Yeah, yeah. I wanna see one more thing here. A lot of people think that men are attracted to one body type. Listen, dude, I have fucked many girls who have small tits. I fucked many girls who have small, I mean shapely butts, but and not listen, I'm not the kind of guy who likes just absolutely huge ass. Like dude, I'm not into practical joke, huge asses. Let's just get that straight. But women, there are many different types of beauty. Women come in like beautiful women come in all body shapes. Not necessarily all body sizes, but there are women out there who have really nice asses, small tits. There are women out there who have really nice tits, you know, not so great asses. Some guys are leg men, some guys, I mean, so just so people understand, we're not a trend. Well, they only want girls who look like porn stars. No, there aren't that many girls who look like porn stars. We have to pick what we choose from. So I want everyone to know, hey, there's more than one standard of beauty. There's not one standard of beauty when it comes to women. Just be attractive and not fat. Listen, there it is. You know what, there is only one standard beauty. Just don't be fat and you've got a shot. Yeah, I wanted to say that I don't know if there's unlimited standards of beauty, but there's many. But this is not one of them. Like this one, I don't think there's, even if you're attracted to it, that's fine. If you have a fetish for this, you know, whatever, but this is- I think there's four more, or sorry, that there's far more men that are attracted to women from different standards, from rail thin to a test holiday. I mean, she proved that she's attractive enough to get knocked up because she was a single mother. Oh, by the way, she was raised by a single mother. She became a single mother herself and then she married somebody and brought child in tow. So she was attractive enough on the sexual marketplace to engage with men and sleep with them. So it goes without saying that there's men that will be attracted to that, but I think the standard of attraction for men is very different. I mean, there aren't, and I think, Rollo, you mentioned this in your first book somewhere or maybe it was an essay, but there aren't like chubby chasing, like I want to date a fat guy, dating sites, but there's all kinds of dating sites for men to find fit women, DBW women, athletic women, I don't know, women that are Mormon, women that are Christian women that are whatever, but there's no dating sites for men where women can go on and find a guy that's 400 pounds that can barely walk upstairs. They just don't exist because those standards, you know, those narratives of attraction, they're just not there. Carl, I want to throw it back to you, Matt. Yeah, I just wanted to, I pulled a little bit of statistics today too, just for the sake of knowing what we're talking about. And I'm looking at the CDC right now and there's something like 40% of Americans are actually now overweight or obese. It's getting to be quite ridiculous. Pulled it by state here. So let me just have a look. Florida, we're Anthony, he's kind of one of the lucky ones, only 25% of the adults in Florida are obese. We're ready to move to Alabama, that's 33%. Mississippi's 34, so it's pretty high. Tess Hall is in Mississippi, by the way. Yeah, again, why? Well, I get quite, there's like an epicenter of the obesity epidemic and it looks like it's somewhere around the barbecue belt. Not so much. Anyone who's ever lived in the American South, they fry everything. They fry butter, they fry Oreos. And listen, this stuff is just, it's delicious. Like, let's not get it twisted, but it's gonna kill you. It's like you're at a carnival, do I have to sign a waiver before I eat this? It's, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it also has a lot to do with where you live as far as lines of latitude. Like the further north you go, the more clothing that you'll have to wear, the less self-conscious you're gonna be about the way. Oh, that makes sense. Think about that for a second. I mean, if you go down to places like Columbia or Central America, they don't have big women down there usually. But if you start moving north, and I mean like even certain places in Canada that are outside of like Cosmopolitan or more metropolitan larger cities like Toronto, you'll get bigger women out there. They're just, you know, they just wear more frumpy ass clothing and they don't really care so much. And it's easier to eat junk sort of thing. Anyway, that's my philosophy on it. I wanna pass it off to Rolo because he's got some points to add. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I'm glad Donovan brought up the protein world thing because that was kind of a pet project for my blog for a while when that first came out because you have to understand that protein world when they came out with the imagery of, who was it? It was Renee Somerfield who was a personal favorite of mine. She is absolutely fantastically gorgeous. And so what would, you know, the more hot or the more gorgeous that woman is, the more offense she's going to create if you broadcast her, if you put her out there. So of course what happened is during that protein world protest, women, and this was in, I think this was in the UK as well, where women would go and scribble her out and say, are you Beachbody ready? Or it's like, everybody is ready for the beach or some shit. Yeah, there was a video. Yeah, there was a video that Paul Joseph Watson did on that, right? Right. Yeah, that's where he mentioned my article that I wrote on that. Yeah, that was kind of interesting. I mean, that was like four years ago, I think. That was back in 15, yeah. The thing is, is like, here's a deal though. Protein world also did a sister campaign, that a brother campaign of this with another guy, with a really hot guy with, you know, abs and you say, are you Beachbody ready? And it's a guy that looks good and it's in exactly the same campaign. Nothing. Oh my God, he's so hot. Yeah, yeah, no problem whatsoever with that. So first off, there's that kind of double standard right there, which we have come to expect. The other part is, is that when I was, when I was trying to outline why I believe that this is sort of a social engineering project for the feminine imperative, the most common critique from women about that is, oh my God, I can't believe your body's shaming. And I'm like, not shaming, I'm trying to explain to you why this is, you know, what the mechanics are in this. I'm pulling this apart so people can have a better idea what's going on. Well, the first response that I get from women is, I feel empowered by watching this. When I see fat women on the cover of Cosmo or Test Holiday, it makes me feel better about myself because I've been fat for my whole life and I have, and when I see that, it makes me feel like I'm not alone or something. And then explaining this to just some random person on Twitter is not gonna work out. So I'm gonna explain this to you here. Once again, this is women's inability to separate sexual market value from personal value. Ooh, origin. Hey, we've talked about this before. We talked about this one that one lady called in not too long ago and was just like crushed that men would only care about a woman's sexual market value or only care about what she looks like and how hot she is and is she good in bed and stuff. It's like, well, sorry, you've made yourself sexual commodities. So women have made themselves sexual commodities, but they want every guy to think that every woman is hot. They wanna say, well, it doesn't matter if you're fat, it doesn't matter if you're skinny, it doesn't matter if you're midget, it doesn't matter if you're whatever. There's all beauty comes in all sizes, right? And what's ironic about this is guys will fetishize stuff anyways. And so they're gonna think about that, but what women are doing is they are conflating sexual market value with personal value. And so when a woman says, I feel better about myself because I see test holiday on there, I'm like, well, what would make you feel even better about yourself is if you got into shape and you got more male attention. And guys, we're actually pursuing you because you look good, because you put out the effort, because you actually decided that you wanted to do something for men, right? I mean, we've talked about this as well, is the strong independent woman trope specifically states, never do anything for the express pleasure of a man. That is what strong independence means to women, is never doing anything. And so consequently, they reduce themselves to just the sexual objectification, which is what the other part that I wanted to get into is men will naturally objectify women. It's not a social thing. It's not them thinking, oh, well, you don't look like this perfect piece of ass that I saw in a women's magazine anyways. And I'll understand, Cosmo is directed at women, not men. It's directed for women. So when you see a hot piece of ass on Cosmopolitan and they suddenly put test holiday on there, to me, that's almost an insult to fat women. It's like the mean girl's going, okay, we're gonna put a fat chick on our cover of our magazine. It's like she's a circus freak. So we're gonna throw her out there, but you're gonna feel better about yourself and they know that. That goes back to what Carl was saying about making money off of this and turning this into a commercialization and they are doing that just as well. But what we're looking at is we're seeing a lot of different angles being applied to this body positivity thing. So there's the commercial angle. There's the social engineering angle. There's the I feel better about myself because I see someone who looks like me on the cover angle. And I feel more positive about myself. There's all kinds of ways that body positivity, quote unquote, gets exploited. And yet year by year, progressively, the population gets fatter and fatter and fatter. And if we're going to keep the reproductive levels going up, we're gonna have to find some way to make fat women somewhat desirable to put them into a capacity to optimize that burden. And with that, before I pass it off to you, Anthony, because I know you wanted to add something else, it was Pierce Morgan that I think went hard on her publicly. And when I posted that picture on my Instagram, there was, I think there was one guy that came in and tried a white knight but almost everybody agreed with the commentary. It's good that men are speaking up. You know, it's good that people are speaking up and saying, yeah, this is not acceptable. Let's stop selling this bullshit to people. Anthony? Yeah, so we mentioned Paul Joseph Watson earlier and it's a couple of videos on modern art and how shitty it is all the time and a lot of the time. And that's really what kind of was getting at earlier that what we're seeing on the cover of this magazine, it's not just all these different elements with the red pill and a pergamy and the feminine imperative. It's the inversion of beauty. It's purposeful. It's destructive. It's the destruction of standards. Like there are many standards that men have for attraction and arousal. Like, you know, we've talked about like Donovan was hitting on the range that we are attracted to is really wide. But even considering that, that does arousal is not beauty and this is definitely not beauty. So Paul Joseph Watson has good videos on modern art. Everybody should check them out. Also, Ayn Rand, The Romantic Manifesto is a book that talks about this back in the, get your with this like in the 60s or 70s. It's the same shit, you know, 40, 50 years later. Same stuff. And there's a lot of relevance I think to the left and hyper progressivism and all this bullshit. But yeah, this book's good and Paul Joseph Watson videos are great. And I think guys will connect the dots when they see those videos with this magazine cover. All right, Donovan, do you got any callers online? We put the number there in the chat. So if you wanted to get on the line, call in. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did try to. I tried to screen whoever was, but they didn't answer. So they dropped off. All right, well, the numbers in the chat guys, if you want to get on, you know, we often have seven or eight by the end of the call waiting to have a conversation. And then they have to do the hell. If we're getting, if we're getting short on time, we're already coming up with a one hour mark. So when you get right around the one and a half hour, two hour mark, that's when, I mean, sometimes we'll have to leave. Callers. Donovan, Donovan, I got to catch off because your audio is going for crap. You might want to check something there. Yeah, you got static. It's bad. All right. So while we get people kind of queue up and Donovan tries to start at the audio issue, anybody else got any other topics they want to add on this one here while we're queuing that up? Well, overall, I wanted to kind of talk about this because I touched on this in an earlier episode when Ralo's best girl, they're called in. And I think women have a way of kind of enabling each other to drive themselves into this spiral because with guys, I tweeted this out last weekend. Like if you start to let yourself go as a guy, your friends will be like, hey, Stay Pop, if you keep eating like that, the ghostbusters are gonna have to show up at your house one day. Exactly, yeah. And women on the other hand, they're like, oh, you look so much cuter now that you put on a little weight. I mean, enjoy that piece of cake, you're worth it, treat yourself. And they will kind of enable each other. And part of me wants to think that this is just kind of the low female agreeableness, kind of not wanting to create any problems with honesty. The other part of me is thinking that the girls in and they're like, yeah, I eat that cake, you bitch. And I'll be harder than you soon and you won't be able to compete. And I'm not really sure what it is. I think it's because women inherently don't want competition. I think that they want to clean up the space so they've got less attractive women to compete with honestly. Yep, I know that. I've got a post called The New Thin and I'll post it in the chat once again here. But it exactly defines what Carl's just getting into is that women fight in the psychological, men fight in the physical. And so when a woman feels like another woman is getting more attractive than her, she is going to encourage that woman passively to fuck herself up, to eat more, to convince that woman that she looks great even though she's like, I've lost four pounds. You don't drink more wine. You don't look any, yeah, drink more wine. You don't look any different. But I want you to think you look different because I know that I already look better than you. And there is a, remember, it's an arms race amongst women and they're not gonna say you need to, they're never going to encourage the other one to get in shape. They're gonna try to encourage men to find this other woman attractive. But by the same token, if they know that that woman is fatter than they are, they're gonna say, yeah, exactly. Have that piece of cake because they're fighting in an intrasexual competition there. And they're not gonna tell them that. They're gonna encourage that. And you know what's absolutely bonkers, guys? You know what's absolutely bonkers? All right, hello. Women will do this, oh, Donovan dude, you gotta mute yourself, it's still doing that static thing. How do we start my computer and come back? All right. If you see women on dating sites, they often post pictures that are older or thinner or from an aerial angle that makes them look thinner. It gives them good cleavage if they're wearing the right bra. But when you meet them, they're often heavier than what they are in the picture. So they know inherently, I mean, there's a conflict between their forebrain and their hindbrain between what they believe and what they actually know. It's just absolutely nuts that there's that full disconnect but they know the truth, right? It reminds me a lot of what Scott Adams talks about that we're watching the same movie on two different screens like women really, really see the world differently. Right. Yeah, so it's crazy to us. But to them, it makes perfect sense. Yeah, let's be deceptive and post old pictures but they show up in their heavier. I had a guy that posted a field report from last night when he went out with this girl and that was basically a story, right? Yeah. Well, I'm wondering how they're, I'm wondering about their logic because like, let's say you're on a dating site and you use 10 year old pictures for your 300 pounds lighter and you show up to the date in your little scooter. What's your logic there? I just walked out. I just walked out on shit like that. Fuck it. Well, your reaction is fine. I'm just wondering what is the woman's logic? Like, if you lied to them and you're like 115 pounds in your picture and you're a half a metric ton in real life and you show up for the date. What's your game plan from that point going forward? It's like, oh, you know what they say? The camera takes away 950 pounds. Yeah, yeah. You know what? I got a really interesting story to share because about four years ago I actually put together a bit of a business plan to create a dating site that was video based. So while Donovan's getting queued up, I'll share the story. Basically, you know, the notion was, you know we're tired of getting catfish. This is bullshit. You know, women are showing up not looking at anything like their picture. So let's have a video chat component integrated into it. I found a guy that actually built it out but it never took off. And luckily enough, my accountant that does the books for my main business, he also did the books for Lava Life and those of you that are older know what that is. So I met up with this guy that was basically the number two at Lava Life. You know, we had lunch and I pitched the idea to him this video dating app. The notion was, okay, you match and then you have a quick video call to verify they actually look like what they show in their pictures today, modern. And he said, yeah, I really like that idea but here's the thing that most people don't understand. The biggest part of our business with Lava Life was the phone component. They made about 90% of their money off the phone chat. Okay, interesting. Let's go a little further down that rabbit hole. And he postulated basically that the reason why it did so well is because when they would show up and meet in person, he was suggesting that the women were hoping to win them over with their shining personality sort of thing, which of course is not the case because men prefer the optics of beauty. Women are sex objects, men are success objects. So I thought that was a pretty interesting component to that actually, to that part of the discussion. Do we have Donovan back on yet? No, he's still trying to restart his thing, right? Yeah, we could take some text questions over the phone. I was just gonna say just to hit on that real quick is that, and I talked about this a minute ago is that men naturally objectify women. That is part of our psychology. It's part of our involve mental firmware. When we see in our evolutionary past, when we see an attractive woman, we had to be ready to hit it and quit it as fast as we could because we didn't know what the danger was. There could have been another male, another alpha male there to kick our ass or beat us down or environmental stresses were something where we had to be able to breathe very quickly. That's why guys have a sexuality, a sexual nature that is always on. And so we had to evolve into a species of being that could hit it and quit it at a moment's notice. And that's one of the reasons why we are, we look the way we do and we function the way we do. And as part of that, as part of our brains, when we see a woman, we don't see her as a quote unquote human being. We see her as a list of parts. So we can size up a woman to see whether or not she is breeding material in under a second, in under like 30 seconds. When you look at a woman, you say, okay, is this woman, does she pass the boner test? Do I get aroused when I look at this person? And that when you see that one, and I've done these FMRI studies, I think, or they've done some sort of brain scans where when men are presented with a half-naked woman's image, it stimulates the same part of our brains as tool use. So what that implies is that men are trying to figure out a reproductive problem. We're trying to, because we see this person as a tool or body parts of her as a tool, we're trying, how can I use this? How can I solve my reproductive problem with this person? And I think that maybe that's something that we need to, a part of our sexuality and part of our nature is that we have to keep under control. I mean, there are parts of, we can't just be walking around with heart on all the time. We're taught from a very early age that we have to keep our sexuality under control. Otherwise, we're just gonna be these bundles of hormones and running around it. Toxic masculinity. Exactly, I mean, that's the primary part. It's like, well, these kids need to be under control of their sexuality. Well, we are. If you think about how men's sexuality is always on, and yet we are still have that and we maintain that and we're under control and we just go through life as a normal human being, but women don't understand that. There's the aspect of men's sexual natures that we have to keep under control, but that is always on. Why is it always on? Because we have evolved into, like I said, a species that has to be able to hit it and quit it at a moment's notice and we have to make those judgments as to is a woman breeding material in a split second. And as a result of that, we had to learn to objectify women as to this woman, this object here is worth breeding with. This object here is not worth breeding with. Oh, but Rolo, don't objectify women and just narrow down to the object. That's so bad. Exactly. Women objectify men all the time. They have a very similar mechanic in their own brains although they are looking more for the quality though. They're looking for parental investment, provisioning, everything that constitutes hypergamy. That is a mental mechanism in their own brains and they are every bit as objectifying as guys are, but because men are always on and we have defined our society in female correct terms, we're the bad guys, we're the ones who have to be shamed. And that's another thing I think is really that needs to be addressed here is that women say, you're fat shaming. Well, and shaming never works. No, shaming does work first of all. And then second of all, it's only shaming when men say, I wouldn't hit it. I wouldn't get it with, I wouldn't get with that. That's shaming. That they think that because you're rejecting them that it's your problem, you're an insecure male because you're not on with the program. And then second of all, you're shaming them. And it's like, no, I'm not shaming you. I'm just telling you that you would not be somebody that I would want to breed with. That's not, you know, you take that as shame if you want, but that's basically a statement of fact. Well, they can't handle the rejection. They lose it. But why do they say, why do they see that as shame? Because they feel shame. They feel shame when a guy, I mean, of all things. Well, they should feel shame. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, well, you know, no, no, what is it? No, no woman is ugly after 2 a.m. But yeah, here's a guy saying, oh, yeah, they are. Yeah, yeah, they are. Trust me, they are. The reason that they say- You go out and site in the bright lights of the street, they are. The reason that they say that it's fat shaming is because that's what they feel when they get rejected. They feel shame. They feel ashamed for not being that physical, you know, that physical ideal or a physical ideal enough that, you know, some guy would want to have sex with them. Get the nail in the head. By themselves. All right. Donovan, did you get the audio fix? It sounds like I did. This is, this is actually a blog talk radio issue. Okay. We did some searching and I guess it has static. Before we, before we get into the calls too, we got a good text question from area code 512. Are tattoos always a red flag or displacement and reason matter? Yes. Just hit it, just hit it and quit it. Yes. Well, why don't we put that across to the panel? Anthony, what's your thoughts on that? I don't, I have a disagree with what Donovan was just saying. I don't think it's always a red flag. Well, it's always a sign of trauma I think on women. So on men, it could also be a sign of trauma, but on men, it's bad ass usually. So it's a good thing. On women, I think it's usually not a good thing, almost 100% of the time, but you need to try to analyze it and look at it and what the fuck you're looking at. So for example, you know, in my case, Medusa, you know, from my ex-wife thing, she had no tattoos, but she's super fucked up. Well, what does that mean? It means she was hiding all the trauma. Women who get a bunch of tattoos are not hiding it. They're showing you who they are. So you know, you have a better idea what you're dealing with. So red flag, eh, you need to look at it and try to figure out what you're looking at. What do you think, Carl? I think it's a mixed bag. It's not as easy as, yes, no question, because, you know, some girl gets, you know, her, they, her mom died or something tattooed in some small and conspicuous location. I don't think that's necessarily a sign of anything bad, but tattoos and piercings and hair color are like three major ways women's signal, you know, unfucked up. If she's covered in tattoos with a ton of piercings and she has neon green hair, I'm sorry, that's a, that's a false rate of charge waiting to happen. So it's just one of those things. You have to make a judgment on it, but you know, tramp stamps, generally a slutel. Nipple piercings, tongue piercings, generally slutels. Nose. You know, there's, you know, any tattoo, like I think the ultimate slutel tattoo is this a porn star Claire something who has hit it harder tattoo over a pussy. Where are they drawing attention to? Yeah. A friend of mine once said, we were, you know, I kind of had this conversation. He said, you know, women that have thumb rings, smoke, lots of visible tattoos and tongue piercings are usually the dirtiest in bed, but they also come with a shitload of problems. So I tend to agree with what the panel's saying, visible tattoos, like Anthony was saying, they tend to be like obvious markers of trauma, whereas he, you know, he didn't spot any visible tattoos on Medusa. But, I mean, I've always stayed away from women with visible tats. I mean, there's women that have, I'm going to say tasteful concealed tats or, you know, one or two, which is okay. But if you're like, what the hell was her name? Tess Holiday, like on that cover and she's got like tats all over her body. I think that Miss Piggy was one of them on her arm. It's like, it's just brutal. Yeah. I think Medusa gave all her trauma in her tats, but I think she carried it all in her chest. Not bad on the inside. Yeah, like, yeah, it's just, I guess with tattooed women, at least you know what you're dealing with. Like they're telling you that they're fucked up, which is a lot better than them being fucked up and not telling you. Yeah. Hi, how are you doing, Donovan, with the audio system? Is it working? Yeah, audio systems work and tell people to call in. Let me just give my first, my quick take on this. Tattoos for me on women, dude, that is 100% of the time that is absolutely a slut-tell. I have never met a virgin or heard of a virgin getting a tattoo. I'm sure they're out there somewhere, but they don't stay virgins for long. A tattoo, I guess, represents trauma or some sort of turning point for women. Well, trauma is a red flag and women only destroy themselves in one way. That is sex. Hear me out on this. If a woman experiences trauma in her life, she ends up drinking a lot. Drinking leads to sex. If a woman experiences some sort of tragedy in her life and she starts drugs, drugs lead to sex. Women are only, American women are only good for sex. This is why they can only destroy themselves through sex. They use different avenues to get there, but sex is always the end game when it comes to women and self-destruction. So if she has tattoos, she is absolutely a slut. Okay, so you got your mother's birth date on your forearm or her death date. There are 100,000 other ways to honor your dead mother. By putting a tattoo on yourself, you are drawing attention to yourself. Oh, what's that date for? Oh, it's my dead mother. Not trying to hear that. That's just, to me, that's just an excuse to put ink into your skin. And some girls get a tattoo that's concealed, right? Well, if you're gonna conceal the tattoo, then why get it at all? Oh, I know for attention. This is an attention grab for women. This is why tattoos are a slut till 100% of the time. Just because a girl doesn't fuck you on the first date doesn't mean she's not a slut. I mean, what girls aren't a slut? Like... Yeah, okay. You know what it's, you know what I'm saying. I'm burying degrees. Yeah, the degree of error is... All women have the capacity to behave in a very promiscuous fashion. I've had women in my life that I put up on a pedestal that I thought were fucking Lama unicorns. And lo and behold, the right time of the month and her ovulatory shift, the right argument, the right, whatever the fuck it is, it lines up the moons of Endor and she's out begging some guy the same night. All women have that. Whether she has a tattoo, she gives it up a hell of a lot easier. Oh yeah, she'll be blowing in the bathroom within 25 minutes. I am stealing Lama unicorns from here on out. It's yours, you know. Oh, just like, I'll be really quick here. There was a time, there was a time back in the 90s where if you had a woman and she shaved her snatch, that was niche porn. Now all women do that. Like every woman is like shaving at her, you know, a landing strip or something. And that was quote unquote a slut tail for a woman to shave her pussy was to, you know, was a niche porn. Now it's just whatever, right? I got to ask the question. Hang on, Ro. If I'm not mistaken, I think using tampons used to be a slut tail, right? Yeah, well, I mean, way back in the day because you were inserting something into your area. Those, I mean, those are... Yeah, that's a little different. I mean, that's just hygiene right there, but I think... Old school. Well, I mean, look at how things progress though. Okay, so, you know, that used to be shaving your snatch was a niche porn. Now it's not. Having that belly ring, you know, having that navel piercing, that used to be, oh man, only stri... I saw when that first came out and I saw chicks with that, I'm like, oh man, that's great because all I saw was strippers, you know, with that. And this is when I was younger, of course. But like, I'm like, I gotta get a chick who would get a piercing, man, that's great. And then of course that becomes everybody and their mother has a belly piercing now. Okay, fine. Now what's gonna happen? Okay, we've got tramp stamps. Oh wow, those are hot, you know, only slits get those, okay? Okay, fine. And I don't see any... I don't see too many women getting tramp stamps anymore. I mean, from where I look, I mean, it's the women who have them have had them... That's because they've been labeled as tramp stamps, that's why. Well, tramp stamps were a really big thing back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Now that's quite... Wedding crashers did it. Yeah, like we were just talking about getting a tongue piercing. That way, you know, wow, that would feel good on my dick if you suck at me. And I had to think, yeah, that was a big deal. And now it's like, you know, maybe you see a chick like that or there's some sort of, you know, there's a, I think there is a difference between wanting to stand out, like getting a piercing in your nose or getting a tattoo on yourself of some sorts. And there's the direct slut tells. There's like the ones where, okay, only slits do this. Only slits shave their snatch. Only slits, you know, get a belly piercing. Only slits do the tramp stamp. It's another thing to go and get, you know, a sleeve full of tats. Like you see these, what are they? Suicide girls or something like that. Where they're like, there are these hot chicks but they're like completely covered in tats. And it's like, well, I forget who said it. Like when a hot girl with tats is like having a Lamborghini with like bumper stickers all over it. That's classic. It's like Lamborghini with bumper stickers. Yeah, why would you go and ruin that? Jesus. And so my take is I think it just, again, it sort of depends on the chick and it sort of depends on how they go about it. Like if you go and you look at the women in Walmart these hugely grossly overweight women and they've got like tattoos on their legs and they're wearing shorts and they're showing off the tat on their legs. So what the fuck would you go and put one there? That woman is not saying, oh, I'm a slut. She's just trying to stand out. She's trying to get into, like I can remember when tattoos were only what guys got. It was a masculine thing. It was a masculine domain. And there are certain masculine characteristics and masculine things that guys only did that women are getting into. So I was just talking about Ivan or with Ivan Thorne about this is there was a time where women would never drink like bourbon or they never drink whiskey or they never drink that. Those are men's drinks. They drink like Foofy, they drink rum. They drink non-drinks, that's fine. But they wouldn't drink men's drinks. Now they're, oh, women can drink Johnny Walker and now you got Johnny Walker black label has like a chick on the label now. And so there's these, I guess customs, I guess. They're male space customs that women want to get into and say, well, I can have a tattoo and I got a full on sleeve. It makes me a rocker chick. Okay, well fine, whatever, but you're trying to insert yourself into a male space. And if that works for you, fine. But I think there's a difference between wanting to express your identity or wanting to stand out. And then there are the definite slut tells. The definite slut tells. You know what I love about these broadcast guys is we start with one topic like, the lie feminism has been selling women on the body positivity movement. And then we're all of a sudden gone down another rabbit hole about tattoos. It's crazy. Don't I mean- What I'm talking about though is, with these big girls getting tanned. So I've seen a lot of tattoo equipment and I've never seen a tattoo artist that has a fucking roller. I mean, how much time would it take to put on a cat that size? That's like a two by two foot area you have to paint. I mean, does he charge by the hour or does he charge by the gallon? Square footage, square foot. It is what it is. Listen, I respect everyone's opinion but to me, any man who doesn't, any man who says that tattoos aren't a slut tell, that's just another way of, to me that's just another way of maybe trying to tell themselves, okay, maybe just because she has a tattoo doesn't necessarily mean she's a slut. Okay, maybe all tatted girls aren't sluts but every tatted girl I've ever seen, they're always sluts. It just means, and listen, tattoos are attention seeking and girls who attention seek are attention seeking, are attention seeking for male attention. Well, they're rebellious too. In a lot of cases, if dad didn't want nose ring and tattoos, well, they get 30, hit the wall and boom. Guess what? We really know that, you know, attention is the coin of the realm for women. We got collars on Donovan? Yes, sir. Let's go to Sean in San Diego. You're on with the red man group. Let's go. Hello, good morning gentlemen. This is my first time on the live stream so thanks for having me. Absolutely. I have a question for the panel is that late in July, the men's clothing company, Bonovo, released a YouTube video called hashtag change the definition where it showed all these gentlemen giving like the definition of masculinity and all these gentlemen were saying this does not apply to me. Well, then immediately after that two weeks later, Craig or you releases it's a video on how masculinity is needed. So I'm just thinking to myself that but it's in a history analogy, you have this, the reformation and a counter reformation. So what are the impacts of these two videos that they can have towards the red pill cause? Well, it was because of Craig and you's video and also my brother that I'm starting put two and two together. Well, this is like, there's a good message for masculinity and that's why I'm here today. Well, with the Prager you video, if I can start with this, there's a lot of problems with it. Turfling and monkey did a good job breaking down. So some of it's good, some of it's really bad and that's pretty consistent for Tradcon stuff like that. So it's better, you know, they want more masculinity, which is good, but it's like, they want to shape it and make, they basically want better betas is what I got out of that Prager you video and they are just fucking stupid. Both Bonobos and Bonobo, whatever and Prager you are broadcasting distorted ideas of what masculinity is in a big way. And I'll just chime in here real quick. Bonobos is that ad and that whole push along with other organizations such as The Man Enough, whatever, I really want to get into talking about The Man Enough, whatever it is, the viral videos that they're coming out with. It's one more further distortion, blurring of the lines, if you will, of masculinity. They want to make it as subjective as it possibly can be because a lot of men don't measure up, they don't measure up to that conventional masculinity, particularly in this day and age in these generations, they don't. And so Bonobo wants that from that side of the aisle, it is just make it about whatever it is. You can just decide whatever masculinity is and it becomes meaningless because it can be anything. And so there's this idea that a guy who is very effeminate and very fey and can be this super masculine guy because we're just going to change the rules of the game. We're just going to say, okay, this is now what masculinity is about. So you're it, great. It's always about whatever place to the strength of the person who is defining it for themselves. And so that blurring of the line is deliberate because the more that you can blur it and the more you can confuse men about what masculinity is, the better you can use it, the better that the feminine imperative can use it. And the way that side of the aisle uses it is they distort it so that it conforms with what the feminine imperative wants it to conform to. So if you want to have a guy who is, you want to use a man's masculinity when it comes to protection and saving a woman's life and chivalry and all this other shit, but anything beyond that, anything that's inconvenient, that's toxic. So we can get into a discussion of what is toxic masculinity. Now the PragerU side of the thing is they want to get back to what seems like conventional masculinity, but really they call it traditional masculinity. And they're not, in the beginning of that video, they're not wrong. They're correct about the fact that we need to get back to a conventional sense of masculinity, but where they get it wrong, where they get it wrong is they presume that that masculinity is just a masculine duty. It's just a man's duty to do that with no authority delivered to them. So they distort it by saying a man is being a man, masculinity is all about responsibility. It's all about liability. It's all about accountability. And men need to be men because we need you guys here to save the Western culture or Western society, right? But they don't include the authority in that. They don't say, yes, you know what? With that responsibility, there's an authority. If you want men to man up, there needs to be some kind of authority that's granted to that because otherwise it's just you being a slave. It's just you doing what they want. Again, it's what they want you to do. They want you to feel is your masculine responsibilities, your masculine liability. But yet when it comes down to women relinquishing any kind of authority or any kind of, actually wanting to do something for their man or anything like that, it's always based on a qualification, but that qualification never comes with authority. So they never say, well, you're the man. You decide what we're gonna do. There's no masculine authority along with that. It's all about the responsibility. And that's where both of those guys get it wrong. Yeah, and just to add to that before we go to the next caller, tip my hat to Turfling and Monkey. He got a lot of flack from us on the panel about banging dolls, but he nailed that video. You can go find it on his channel. Do we have any other callers on of it? Yeah, yeah, we've got, we've definitely got some callers. Let's go ahead and bring the next caller on the line. More women? This is actually, yeah, we do have a woman on the line. We've got... Oh, is it Tess Holliday? Oh my God, no. It's, yeah. It's Playboy... It's only... Or something like that. My Playboy Bunny or whatever. Oh, from Twitter. Oh, she's great, dude. Oh, Jesus. All right. Well, all right. All right, well, I'll give her a shout here. Frank, I'm sorry, Frank, Jesus Christ. James in Japan, you're on live with the Red Man Group. What is your question? Hello, everyone. And hello, Rolo Tomasi. Just a big shout out to you. I have a question. You were talking earlier about like the obesity epidemic and tattooed women and I don't know, sometimes I think like the direction society's going in, it's quite like bleak, do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. And I was kind of like, how do you, as a man, like you see like, you know, from like the generations, for example, like the baby boomers onwards, Generation X, Generation Y, now Generation Z, it just feels like it's getting progressively more bleak in the West, like the Western civilization. And I'm just, I'm not sure how you like, how you cope with that or like, how do you deal with that? And like, I mean, I guess listening to Rich Cooper, what you do is just focus on yourself, is basically what most people, most red pill men do. Cause that's all you can have control over is only what you can do. You can't really see anything. But I was watching Aaron Clary's channel and he's kind of taken the attitude of just sit back and enjoy the decline, so to speak. Yep. I just wanted to get your views on that. Yeah, I'll take this first and I'll pass it off to Rollo cause I know that you're expecting, you know, some feedback there. And that's just Aaron Clary, like he's the guy that says, fuck it, I'm going to sit back and watch the place burn sort of thing. But he doesn't take the approach that his life is bleak. And I'm kind of cut from the same sort of cloth. I mean, throughout history, like this is not news, right? Like, you know, throughout history, men could have sat back at any given time and go, whoa, this is fucked up. Why am I even here? Why should I even bother sort of thing? And there's this basic story that I, you know, it's a conversation I had with my daughter actually a couple of days ago cause I've had her for the last few weeks straight for summer holidays. And there was a movie that we saw about a year or two ago and there's the Wolf of Light in the Wolf of Darkness. And I don't know what the conversation was exactly, but it was something along the lines of, well, whatever when you feed is what you're going to get. So if you're going to look at the, you know, the cup is half empty, if you will, or feed the Wolf of Darkness, all that you're going to get, all of the visual inputs, all the confirmation bias that you're going to feed is going to be, well, everywhere I look, there's all obese women and they're gross and women are terrible. So let's go buy dolls and bang those sort of thing. And that's one approach that you can take to life. But if you're focusing on something better than that, improving your own capacity to generate wealth, to have access to many women, gorgeous women in fact, they're out there. You know, you just have to focus on that part of your life. I don't want to bang on this one too much because yeah, he's right. I do chat about it a lot on my channel, but I want to give it to Rollo on this one too. Well, I'm always of the opinion that I should say, I'm not a guy that says the, let's let the whole thing burn. Okay. I think there is a mentality in the manosphere where we're just ready to, you know, enjoy the decline and sit poolside while the world burns. Well, after a while, your poolside starts to burn. Okay. So I think that we need to, you know, actually be proactive about this kind of thing. But I, again, we swing in different pen, you know, the pendulum swings. Okay. Understand that, you know, we have, we're only on this side of the sexual revolution right now. I mean, it's, what is that, 60 years? Maybe 60? Something like that. Okay. We take for granted a lot of things that our grandparents would have thought was completely scandalous. Like for instance, like a single mother, right? Or even, I mean, if you go back and you look at pictures of people from like the 1940s, you look at pictures of like World War II era or like the, or even the flappers or something over the 1920s or something like that. You look at people back then, they weren't obese. They weren't obese because they didn't have access to like, you know, the kinds of foods that we have today. They didn't have access to, or we didn't normalize single motherhood, you know, like we do today. I mean, shit, we facilitate single motherhood. We have a, we have sperm banks. I've used this example before. My mother-in-law was just completely appalled, you know, being religious as she was, that there would ever be such a thing as sperm banks when they first came out in like the late 60s or something in the mid 60s so that couples could have kids. What really wasn't about couples when everything they feared came to pass. It was really a way to facilitate women not needing a guy so that they could have, you know, single motherhood if they wanted to. Now we have egg freezing. Now we can determine, you know, genetics via DNA testing. There's a lot of things that we have that we as humans are not able to really sort of wrap our heads around because we are still the same humans that were, you know, we're around 100,000 years ago. We still have the same hardware and the mental, mental firmware that we were, you know, that we would have had back in, you know, the times of the Romans. So what's the solution? What's the, you know, what's the dividing line there is I think that you have to understand that at some point the society is going to swing back. Some people want to say, well, that's going to be a war. That's going to be a civil war. And honestly, I think we're already in a civil war. I think we're in a cold war, but I think we're kind of in a civil war right now and it's a war of ideas. And I think that's where a lot of things are going to change. I've had this discussion with the Anthony on a couple of occasions where it's like, you know, when the civil war becomes a hot war, the red pill is going to be wrapped up in the middle of that because there is polarization not just between political parties but between men and women. And that's a deliberate polarization. And because the powers that be use that separation, that dividing line, you know, like never do anything for men. And men are like, you know, go your own way, you know? Well, honestly, I think we could be better together. In the past, men and women have been compliments to each other and we're better together than we have been apart, but there's an element that wants you to think that we're not for both sides, from both sides of that. And I'm not of the opinion that we should just sit and let the world burn. So what do you do? Well, I mean, you raise the next generation to believe something different than what this generation is doing. That's one of the reasons I wrote the third book was so that, you know, red pill parents could at least have some sort of guideline or some sort of outline for, you know, how to help the next generation. And then the other part is, pass on what you know to the people who are willing to listen to it. You know, people are like, you know, people always say, oh, thanks, thanks for all the thanks for your books, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, great, pass it on, give it to somebody else. You know, because that's the only way you're going to make the pendulum swing back. So like I said, I'm not, I'm not doom and gloom but there has to be some action that has to be taken at some point otherwise we're just going to be stuck in the same rut. Yeah. Carl, go ahead. Do you want to go next? Yeah, I kind of got in on the tail end of that question and I got that whole enjoyed the decline shit. And, you know, I've gone on Twitter rent after Twitter rent about this part of my French dumb shit for weeks now because, you know, there's the, oh, if you're not here to say Western civilization then you're a nihilist. No, a nihilist is just someone who recognizes that life has no inherent meaning and you have to find a meaning in your own life. And when Nietzsche said that God was dead, he meant that the objective morality provided by a religious system had to be replaced by another type of morality invented by man himself. And for me, it's very simple. I like to put the individual before the group. So I think every guy has to kind of figure out where does he want to be on the spectrum? There's nothing that says you have to do what society wants you to do. There's also nothing that says that you should pull a Ted Bundy and just do whatever the hell you want all the time with no limitations. There is kind of a middle point here where you're not married by the age of 18 to some girl and have 19 kids by the time you turn 30, figure out what you want, figure out your own moral system, your own moral code and certain rules to live by because we all need those. And then work from there. Stop paying so much attention to all this social messaging and everyone else. I mean, some of you guys, you kind of find the red pill and it's like, oh, everything society has told me was wrong. The to-do list they gave me was wrong. Please give me a new to-do list. And it's like, for God's sakes, man. Think about it yourself. Like there are certain things everyone should do, eat decently, lift, stay in shape, et cetera. But, you know, if you wanted to do a list for life, why doesn't it matter to you which one it is? And, you know, before I give it back to Donovan, because I know he's got more colors and he wanted to chime in. I mean, if they're gonna burn themselves down, fuck it. You know, there's things that are within your control and there's things that are not within your control. One of my favorite blog posts that I've ever read is Jack Donovan's I Don't Care. And there's certain, like, and he's not saying I don't care about everything. It's like, I don't care about shit that I can't control. You should go check it out. It's just, I don't care. Donovan? Yeah, listen, you took the words right out of my mouth. How do you deal with it? You take the red pill, you rip the band-aid off, you pour alcohol in the cut and you get used to the pain, man. And then, like, what we do here, you know, with the red man group, it's good that we're changing people's lives and changing the way people think, but at the end of the day, this is gonna take a land. I mean, this is gonna have to be a biblical-sized movement. Are we in a civil war? I don't know, probably, I can't say completely, but all we can do now is what makes us happy, right? Like, I'll try to spread the message, but at the end of the day, you have to, you gotta really be out for yourself. That's how you deal with it. All right, let's go back to the phone lines. 9142055356 is the number to call. Bunny in Texas, you're on live with the red man group. What's your question? Well, I don't really have a question. I usually am in, you know, at least 90 to 95% agreement with everything you guys say, so I don't usually feel the need to call in because I don't feel like I have a whole lot to add, but I have been absolutely run over the ringer today by really pissed off women because, you know, I support taking care of yourself and women who actually stay trim and healthy and like to serve and all of this stuff. And so it's just kind of funny that this is your topic for the day and I love it. So I wanted to call in. Okay, thanks for the call. Can you hear me? Yep, we can hear you. I did want to say that I think that side cats are the new tramp stamp. Wait, I'm sorry, you said what is the new tramp stamp? The side tattoos, right to your tattoo conversation. I think that the side cats are definitely, and I'm seeing a lot of women, I'm 40, I'm seeing a lot of women, my girlfriends who are hitting the wall and suddenly covering themselves in these tattoos, and then, you know, they're out of shape, they look like hell, they're on the beach, but only taking pictures from the cleavage up, you know, they're soccer moms, they look like shits and they're mad that their husbands are checking out the younger girls. I mean, it's just fucking insane. When you say side tats, you mean like thigh tats, like the tats that go down their legs or down their like sides? Yeah, on their sides, yeah. It's usually some like text or some kind of, some kind of pithy little quote that they like put like right in the line. Yeah, yeah, got it, yeah, I would agree. ADMC's the bitch? I've seen who's that, oh, the latest movie, well, I've lost it, but he's got the pigtails and different colored hair and stuff. I've seen all kinds of bizarre things that women will put on their thighs and that's the least attractive thing on the planet, but the bottom line is these women who don't give a shit about their health and want to be proud of being obese and disgusting, they're gonna die sooner than those of us who take care of ourselves anyway, so I guess it's survival of the fittest and they can scream themselves into an early grave. It's feminism burning itself out. Yeah. Yeah, listen, here's the thing and she touches on something that I touched earlier. Women who are obese and covered with tats, they don't think they're sexy, they know they're not sexy. It's almost like a guy walking around telling everybody he's got a 16 inch dick, right? No, you're trying to convince everybody else that you think you have a 16 inch dick. Oh, I'm confident, I'm beautiful. No, you're not because you say it all the goddamn time. Just sweetheart, if you're five, four and 257 pounds, like nobody is checking for you for that kind of action. You know it and we know it. So women talking about they're proud and beautiful and big and beautiful, they're not fooling anyone, not even themselves. I do think there's a certain point to be made though that in a society where you're constantly seeing overweight people, your perspectives sort of shift. So a lot of people will be like, let's take a guy who's like six foot, 250, doesn't lift, think he has to lose like 10 pounds and he'd be ripped. But he's well into the overweight if not in the obese scale on the BMI. But he's probably not gonna think of himself as obese because the mental image of obese is someone who's 600 pounds. So there is a certain, let's say change of perspective there that people are just, standards have slipped so far that people just don't notice anymore. Yeah, Rola, you wanna go before we take the next call? Just right quick. And I didn't, I failed to mention this at the beginning though, but there is a certain degree of revulsion that men have to, this social order believes that men have to get over. When we see a dead body, when we smell decay or something putrefying or something like that, our natural impulse is to get away from whatever that is, the dead body, whatever, because in the past, in our evolutionary past, if we smelled something like that or we saw something like that, it contained the possibility that maybe we would die or that maybe we would catch some sort of disease or something from a rotting carcass, right? That is an example or an extreme example of the revulsion factor that we have in our human psyche, I think. Part of that is like when we see a woman who is the size of test holiday, there is a degree of revulsion that we have to, when we see that we go, oh my God, what's wrong with that person? That's why when you see someone like that, it used to be that women of that size or those tattoos, they were circus freaks, they were carnival freaks that you would go to see and pay money to look at these people because there's that revulsion, it's like that whore. One of the reasons we're drawn to horror movies is because we like that feeling, we like that scary feeling, but that because it goes against that revulsion factor. When we see horror, it goes against that and we get kind of a thrill out of that and that's why we're willing to pay to see those freaks. Or rollercoaster. But now we're desensitized to those freaks and now what the feminine imperative is saying essentially is men need to get passed or desensitize or condition themselves to get past the revulsion so that they can feel attraction or arousal to someone like, someone like Tess Holiday. And that is, think about that. They're asking you to basically put off 100,000 years of human evolution that was, that served our species well and that revulsion factory like that gag reflex that we have, that's an evolved reflex. We have that. We're saying you need to get past that because that's a problem for you because if it's not then you're a toxically masculine. Anthony, go ahead. Yeah, so I just wanted to harp on or tag on here with the role of saying I went to Amsterdam years ago, 2010 for the convention. I was doing a speaking tour for our first convention that we had in Sweden that year. And the guys I was staying with, one of the speakers for the convention that year, they were telling me before they took me to the red light district that there were these giant black women like super fat, like Tess Holiday fat, like just fucking massive that were hookers in the red light district. And I thought they were just fucking with me. I'm like, there's no fucking way you guys are gonna pay that right in the street. Sure, and they told me too, specifically Asian men and specifically Japanese men that were gonna do it. And I'm like, you guys are just trolling me. This must be what we tell tourists and shit. Sure as shit, we go to the red light district and I see a wide variety of hookers and these like little booths and shit they have. But I also see like half a dozen really large like six foot two fucking black women that are three, 400 pounds. And there's like a line of fucking Japanese dudes that go into it, it was fucking bizarre. But it just, you know, like the circus freaks, I guess it's seen in the flesh like that was wild that dudes would pay for that, not just want that. They would actually travel across the world and pay for it in cash right on the spot. These are so bonkers that there's like such a wide variety of, I mean, I was watching this documentary once where guys would pay money to be with these bodybuilder chicks. So you see these bodybuilder chicks that weigh like 250 pounds and they're solid muscle and like their bodies completely change from feminine to masculine. And they've got like nothing left but flapjacks for boobies and stuff. And it's like guys will actually pay money to be with them. Like there's this wide spectrum of dudes that have these fetishes but there's only one spectrum of fetish for women. Successful, rich, good-looking dude, tall, broad shoulders, narrow waist and stuff. Basically your thing on your wall there in the cast of you. That is a really good example of why I say there is no such thing as hypergamy for men. When men will get with huge black women, when men will push past that revulsion side so that they go, yeah, was it slump busting or they'll go whale hunting or whatever. When there is no hypergamy for men. It is only for women. It is their sexual market value or higher. For men, it's fucking whatever it is. It's the sky's the limit. All right, let's go back to the phone lines. 911-420-553-56 is the number to call. Let's go to Frank and Philly. I think he's probably next door to where I'm at. Frank, you're on the line with the red man group. What you got, brother? All right, so I got a pretty simple question I think. Is it the same like imperative to bring like the SMD down of like a woman's partner that it is to, you know, for like the body acceptance stuff? Do you think it's all the same like push? You know, bring everybody else down to I'm a hypergamy relative. Yeah, Roland. My bad. Do you mean that in terms of like being in a relationship with one of these women? Because I mean, we kind of touched on that a little bit before where women will try to encourage their girlfriends to, you know, encourage them to think, you know, you go girl, if they're eating a big piece of cake or something like that or they want to believe that they are, you know, they just got in the gym and they lost five pounds and yet they don't look any different and they still look overweight and the girls will say, yeah, you go girl. And you know, it's this social media side of things. Is that what you're talking about? Or are you talking about from like a guy and a woman in a relationship? Because women will do that too. Women will do that with the men that they're with because they don't want that if they're with a guy that's like, you know, a better looking guy than them like an SMB ratio, they will try to convince the guy not to go to the gym, not to, you know, to stick with what he's, you know, his own stuff. And yes, and you would be correct in that as well is that it's like the sort of this passive, aggressive way of keeping that guy at a certain level because that woman knows that if he bumps up another notch in SMB, then that's when the real competition anxiety kicks in and that's when the real possessiveness kicks in. I think a lot of people don't understand that women will also make guard, but they only make guard for men who they recognize and acknowledge are at least one and possibly two steps above them in SMB. Good question. Anybody else have anything to add? Is that what you were talking about? Yeah, for the most part, it's just kind of like is it the same like wiring that makes a woman do that too, you know, her like best friend, like, oh yeah, yeah, go for that cake and, you know, like knock her down a peg as it is to like knock her guy down a peg in the same regard, like if her best friend is one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like one number ahead of her, whichever, you know, like, do you think it's the same wiring that's like, you know, like I'm gonna put myself at the top of the mountain by knocking everybody else down. Yeah, I think there's some truth to that. If a girl is with a guy who they know is high value, she'll do one of two things. And this is what Rola talked about earlier. A woman will shit test when she is, when she's trying, when she feels herself losing attraction to you, she's gonna shit test you. If she feels like your sexual market value is at least two points higher, she'll comfort test you. Hey, you know, by the way, you do love me, right? Like you're not going anywhere, right? Well, what a lot of women will do, and my ex-wife did this to me, is that I was in great shape when I met her and she used to feed me all the time. And I have a humongous appetite. I mean, and my, dude, my sexual market value plummeted. Well, girls will do the same thing with other girls, but I guess the reasons are similar. I guess to keep them as high up above as possible. Oh, like, if a girl has a short haircut, oh, that looks cute. And the back of her mind, she's like, yeah, one less bitch, or I'm sorry, one less competition I gotta worry about. It's the same thing with their guy. Their guy starts going to the gym. Oh, I never see you anymore. You're in the gym all the time. Okay, one less woman hitting on my man that I have to worry about. You have a hard time with that one. I love it. I do, I do. I have another color in her down. I know that it could almost still melt to that. If you're gonna start going to the gym, there's gonna be a hell of a lot more fit women around you. I believe it. So if you're already like a couple of points above her and she's let her value slip a bit, and she knows you're gonna be surrounded by 115-pound cardio bunnies in spandex, she's going to be very nervous, so to speak. Absolutely. Dread. Let's go back to the phone lines. I think his name is Brent in the Netherlands. Correct me if I'm wrong there. Hey guys. Hey, what's going on there? I was on the chat. Okay. I have a small statement and I want to know if you guys agree. I think we should ignore what women say and what they want because what they ultimately want is their own sexual strategy to win. When you start seeing their media outlets as a tool for benefiting the female sexual strategies, then it all starts to make sense. This is why women are trying to include their fat sisters. They're like, come up here. It's greater. Look at the view. Because currently hypergamy has gone wild and their sexual strategy is winning. So they can't afford to include their fat sisters. They want to share a small part of the cake. That's what I think. Sisterhood uber alles, like a roller says. I also think life is war. And male sexual strategy versus female sexual strategy is war in every aspect. If one party wins, the other one loses because that's how it goes. Right now, males at large are on the losing side. Of course, the top 10 to 20% is benefiting, but at large the male sexual strategy is failing. Most men are not being able to fulfill their sexual strategy. The sexual strategy of impregnating as many women as possible. And the rep bill is pushed back by males to make their sexual strategy work in this day and age and to push back against female sexual strategy. That was a long statement, but I want to know what you guys think. Yeah, 100% true. It's obviously, yeah, it's very much influenced by a role of the masses writing. So shout out to him. And I like all your guys' content. So keep it up. Thanks for the call, man. You listen, Brent from Netherlands dropping truth problems there, man. He's not wrong. And that's kind of what I've been getting at here with the overall perspective of what the feminine imperative is doing right now is, and he's right about the fact that, since the feminine imperative has risen to power or risen into social dominance, I should say, you have to understand that what is its prime directive? It's optimizing hypergamy for the largest number of women as possible. And this is an evidence of that. So it doesn't matter if you're fat. It doesn't matter if you're obese. It doesn't matter if you have tattoos. It doesn't matter if you, you know, what we were talking about, like I think it was last week, it was that one chick who was just flying off the handle because it was a Christian lady, the Sheila Gregoire's daughter was just flying off the handle at that one blog post that said, men prefer virgins who don't have tattoos who have no school, no school debt and was just freaking out that anybody would post this much less of a woman. That's what it's about, right? Actually, yeah. I wonder how much debt and how many tattoos she had. Look at the hostility of the response to that. And that is exactly what that last caller was talking about is like, when you present truths like this, they have to hit back and they hit back hard. And why? Because it's that outrageous to them. I was just gonna say this is just us talking about this. When we were talking about this before we came out in the air, just us talking about this, we run the risk of having ourselves, you know, de-platformed. We run the risk of getting kicked off of Twitter just for saying that because even if you just present a truth, it sounds like shaming and it made somebody feel bad. That truth made somebody, a woman feel bad and therefore it's shaming. Therefore, we don't wanna hear from you anymore. Delete, you know. This happened to me on Instagram just this week. I posted a simple tweet that says, I only have two requirements of my pilot, my doctor, my lawyer and my surgeon, gray hair and a Y chromosome. It was up for five minutes and boom, it was down. Damn. Somebody reported me. Yeah, well, you know what the thing with that is I think you guys know that I'm not politically correct and I usually just say shut most of the time and I don't fucking care. I mean, that's how I speak anywhere, any place, any given time. You know, some people will come up to me go, whoa, you know, you should really water that down or not, so I don't fucking care. If I see something, I point to the facts. If the facts hurt your feelings, that's not my problem, that's your problem. I don't need to water down my stuff. In fact, I'm working on a video from my channel about the notion of kindness in the world, the way that men have always been told to be kind because I had this conversation with the next girlfriend and that's part of how the relationship ended. Afterwards, I kept getting shamed about how I wasn't kind, fuck that. You know what, if somebody's fat, I'm gonna tell them they're fat, I don't care. I get that a lot of people, like women will say, oh, if you would just change your tone, it would be, you know, people would be more, they would accept your thing. No, it's not the tone. Why do you get on a fucking treadmill and lose some weight? Right, it's not the delivery. It's what I'm delivering. I got something to add. It's the information that I've got here. It's the information I'm giving you, that information you find offensive, regardless of whether I say fucking that, or I go, it's okay, you're just overweight, everything's fine. I mean, I can give you it in the sweet little namby-pamby bullshit. It's the same information. It's coming from a guy and it's still gonna end up being offensive to you. I guess something I wanna add here, as much as a pergamy, I think obviously wants to optimize itself, I think women on some level wanna lose. Like they should lose in terms of sexual strategy. So with a frame test in a relationship or even on a, you know, when you meet a girl or whatever, she wants to lose that battle with you. And I think women, and I think that's where they, they wanna be able to lose inside of it. So you're a higher value while they're losing side of the, you know, that's some B battle for that or the comparison. So as much as they're winning right now, and you know, feminism's taken over the culture, they wanna lose that war. And it's good for them. They'll be happier when they do. This is how messed up it is before we go to next college, just real real quick. You guys have probably seen this, but you can probably Google it and find it, but there is a Twitter conversation that somebody screen captured where the guy was like, hey, how are you? The girl's like, good, how tall are you? He goes six foot three, why does that matter? She goes, I only date tall guys. So he responds with, oh, how much do you weigh? And then she spazs out on him like, oh, you're a misogynist guy, hope you die, single, you know, lonely old man sort of thing. And that's the reality of the world that we live in today as men, you know? It's okay for women to filter out men based on height, because that's important to them based on their sexual strategy. But if men wanna attract, you know, only wanna date fit women, that's wrong. And you'll go get shame ports or the thing. And for the record, she was probably pushing maybe 285. 914-205-356 is the number of call. Let's go to Mohamed in New York. You're on Live at the Red Man Group, go ahead. Hey guys, I just wanted to say thank you guys for being a bunch of positive masculine role models. The topic that I'd like to bring up is intersexual dynamics in college in regards to religion. Oh, wow. I am a conservative Muslim. By that, I mean I'm an American conservative who is a Muslim. And one thing I notice on the campus is that the girls won't tolerate red pill behavior from white Christian men. However, when I use those same strategies to them, they don't really take offense to it. And I wanted to know if this is somehow the doing of political correctness. And again, just the whole dynamic of just because you're not a white man, you could get away with acting like this towards let's just say feminist women and they'll still accept it. Thank you guys. And one other thing is that the more I understand the less I forgive. Thank you guys. Very good. That's a great question, Carl. Go ahead. Well, yeah, that's because you're a Muslim, simple as put. I mean, the SJW hierarchy, I've got like four or five blog posts on this. It's basically the closer you are to rich, the higher up in the worst, the less behavioral quirks you're allowed to have. Like if you're a rich white dude who owns stuff, then you're pretty much on the top of the hierarchy. So you can, everyone else is below you. So anything you do is going to be racist, misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic, fat phobic, whatever else they can invent. But if you're, let's say a Muslim guy, and especially if you're like fresh off the boat, you're gonna be able to get away with a lot of behavior because you're in an oppressed group according to their logic. So you have, you're a person of color, you're a follower of Islam. So those are two of the main things that actually lets you get away with stuff these days. If you're, let's say, a black man can get away with more than a white man, but not quite as much as a Muslim man. And he can get away with less than a black woman because he has male privilege, but he doesn't have white privilege. Whereas the black woman is both a woman and black. So she's a person of color and a woman. So she's double oppressed. So if she's a lesbian on top of that, she's pretty much getting close to the apex of that hierarchy there. And the whole thing is kind of ridiculous because I compare it to taking the human population and dividing it up like a pizza. The problem is you get increasingly small slices. So the end of it is you get these ridiculous categorizations that you see on the left. Well, you know, I'm a trans black lesbian who only dates men, but that getting dick gives me male privilege. So therefore I need to get off with a woman who's also trans because that way I'm go up. It's a mind fuck trying to understand it. It just goes to show you how hypocritical feminism, social justice warriors have become to the point where they won't tolerate conservative values from Caucasian men, but they'll align themselves with the, with the very same conservative values that a Muslim man, because they don't want to come off as Islamophobic. It's just bunkers that they've actually gone there. Yeah, I want to add too. The same thing that is, they will actually put up with worse things because like if a white guy tells a woman that, okay, you've had, you've taken 700 miles of dick, you're a slut, then at that point, she will be a he's misogynistic, horrible person, et cetera. If a Muslim man says that a woman who's had more than two deaths in her needs to be stoned, they're like, oh, that's okay. Can't disagree with you. That's just your culture. So Roland put him out of this book a few months ago, broken the rise of radical feminism and the decline of Western civilization. It's one of the best theories I've seen on the link between modern feminism and a link to radical Islam. I kind of like Carl was just getting at it. So everybody should check out this book. It's on Amazon, it's real cheap. Check it out. Author is KZ Howell. Howell. I don't know if that's a real name or not or just a pen name. Cool. Yeah, it's a great short book, it's very thin, easy to read, good read. Yeah, I'll just chime in here real quick before you get the next caller. I am, of course, writing a book based on religion in the red pill right now. And I think that that was something I would like to pursue on this show at some point is how the intersection of, you know, red pill and intersexual dynamics and, you know, modern red pill thoughts. So hang in there. If you want to contact me and just tell me about your experiences, feel free to email me, look for me on the rational mail and I'll be happy to talk to you. Good, very good. All right, let's go to Luca in Poland. You're on live with the red man group. What's your question? Okay, hi guys. So, well, firstly, thank you especially to Frollo, let's say, news fan, read all the books. So I appreciate your work in particular, but also thanks to the other guys because I've seen a lot of episodes. I like these kinds of discussions. I will try to be brief because I'm calling, as you know, from Europe and they are kind of robbing me. Credit quiet, credit wise regarding the phone. So I find myself in a situation that one year and a half ago, I made, before I started to get into the red pill, I made a mistake with a girl. I got too much drone too quickly into air and as the result, as obvious results, I got burned down. Then I started to read the books and I started to date more girls and I started to have a fairly better, let's say, success and getting started to getting noticed. And now in the last month, I found myself repeating yet the very same mistake once again and I can't wrap my head around that one because I thought I was working on the issue but apparently it was not. And frankly speaking, I don't understand why I do this because like my life is fine or more than fine, let's say, I was about to be there, I'm cheap, I have a good career, full of friends and I just don't know why I can't get these particular things of my life in check. Okay, anybody wanna take a crack at this? I'm not sure I understand the question. Can we maybe distill it down into a sentence or one question? I think he... How do I stop getting drawn too quickly into a girl? Okay, so he's over investing as well. Okay, gotcha, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, he's a high value guy, he's in shape, he has a good career but he wants to know how can I keep from falling head over heels for these? Right, that's that right there. I'll just jump on that right quick is that I think that you need to re-evaluate your blue pill idealisms right there because I know a lot of guys who will go through exactly the process of what you're going through right now is they learn red pill theory, they're red pill aware, they learn some game, they get armed and dangerous, I guess, and then they go out there and they start spinning plates, that's great, go out there and do that but then they'll find one plate that out shines all the rest of the plates or it's that one girl that looks better and it fits that blue pill ideal that they had that they just simply weren't able to crush and so what they end up doing is they end up over-investing in that one girl and of course getting oneitis for and I think that if you haven't completely crushed out that blue pill beta in your life or that old person that you used to be and you do what I call crossing the abyss and you're accepting life in a red pill paradigm as opposed to a blue pill paradigm, what happens is you end up crawling back to those idealisms and so like in the back of your head there's this ideal of this what I call the genetic celebrity it's this woman who is your dream girl and so what happens is that dream girl turns into your nightmare girl kind of like what happened with Anthony and Medusa is like she's this gorgeous, perfect girl and you think that your ship has finally fucking come in and life is gonna be great and then you realize that you're really with a nightmare and all because you weren't able to see past your blue pill idealism and drop off that idealism and so that's why I say you'll never achieve blue pill ideals with red pill awareness because if anything it sets you up for an even bigger failure because you're still trying to achieve those old goals you're still clinging to those old ideals and so what as a consequence you end up over investing in that girl because she's the best girl you've ever got she's so hot I've never had a girl this high quality this level of SMV I've never been with a chick like that and so what do you do you compromise and you make you make concessions for her and you start to look past the red flags because she's with you because you were red pill and so you wanna stay with her and so when all the red flags start popping up you just kind of ignore them because she fits that ideal and you don't wanna lose her. I wanna add here that there could be other things going on independent of his core beliefs and ideas he has and holds from the red pill there could be things like childhood trauma or attachment disorder or stuff like that and he should probably look into that if this is happening consistently it couldn't it might not be just like the beta stuff and the blue pill it could be well beyond that. I think the solution here is simple you need to start fucking multiple girls anytime we give game advice like if your girl gets out of pocket withdraw your attention right like that's standard operating procedure if you're fucking multiple girls it is far easier to employ red pill game it's far easier to keep that red pill mentality the reason why it's economic it's supply and demand the least and it's actually the inverse of supply and demand as far as men and women are concerned the more women you are fucking the less important each woman becomes right so on the other side of that coin the least amount of women that you're fucking the more important each of those women become so if you're fucking one girl it's hard to do what's necessary to keep her in mind but if you're fucking five girls and one or two get out of pocket no big deal you run standard game you lay down the edicts you do what you need to do so what you need to do to avoid catching feelings for it because it sounds to me like he doesn't have a problem getting girls it sounds to me like his problem is he catches feelings too early you have to understand that once you lock down a girl so to speak you need to be always looking for other girls because girls are dude they're as unpredictable as the fuck they're under there is unpredictable as the weather and what you need to do is you need to get multiple girls you get multiple girls you get that abundance mindset and we say that so often people become desensitized to it the abundance mindset to me is the single most important weapon in his utility belt fuck multiple girls that's the answer to your problem. All right, do we have any more callers on Donovan? Yeah, we got one more let's go to Rob and Rob forgive me I forgot what country you're in if you would let the audience know you're I'm from Philadelphia Oh, Rob and Philly, good God, what? Yeah, that is a different country Yes, yeah, well yeah, definitely can't worry about that Rob and Philly, what's going on brother? Hey, what's going on with us? Just want to say thanks for the group I really appreciate you guys spreading the knowledge some tighter scene of males getting beta male out there like it's tough to see after you take the red pill So yeah, I just want to say thank you So my question is you're I've been going to church my whole life so I wanted to get you guys opinion on Christian women when I was blue pilled I thought all the girls in church were different but after taking the red pill I completely my eyes were completely open and I started to realize all the beta bucks in the church and how church women are really no different than any other woman and they're still hypergamist and to be honest, most of them are sluts like I found most of the sluts in church Well listen, Christian girls are different they are different in that they're slutting for Jesus they're slutting for Christ, right? Like that's what they do it under listen man, church girls, they are the they're as every hypergamous as any other girl out there and they just do it under the guise of something else Well they also sell like the lyrics and the notoriety of their idealist storytelling I mean, I'm just gonna say this again look, I mean, if you believe that a man in the sky in a talking steak and a dude, you know part of the seas with two slabs of stone you know, like the story that you wanna go into I've got a whole library of Disney movies my daughter's got on DVD, I could show you as well you know, at the end of the day women are women there's no good women, there's no bad women there's just women so I just gotta accept that go ahead, go ahead Yeah, I got something out here this just came to me but I can imagine in 2018 the churches today are attracting a lot of sluts basically women who want to kind of, well they hit the wall maybe and start going to church or whatever so if anything, I think church would probably attract more women of you know, higher hypergamy more slut tells and stuff these days the opposite of what guys are told to think about it Yeah One of the field reports that keeps coming up on my private men's group is guys will take a screenshot of like a Tinder profile or a Bumble profile or something like that and it's a picture of a girl that says I don't know something about like you know only looking for a good Christian man but you got a girl here that's a single mother she's got 72 tattoos all over her body she's got a low cut top showing off her tits like come on like at what point did you find Jesus was it last week because you wanted to find Beta Bucks? Right, I have noticed that a lot of women the church is kind of interesting because there are two groups that kind of find the church late in life they're generally guys who get locked up and women who have been sluts for 15, 20 years they overwhelmingly go into church and the brilliant thing I noticed in one of the churches I went to while growing up was all the women gave off this really pious vibe and the pastor was really, really vocal about not sleeping around, adultery, et cetera and he was the recently coined what I call the Bringsstone preacher principle because this guy he would stand on the pulpit on Sunday and talk about not cheating and then he would be fucking half of the married women in the congregation on a rotation. Right, right. I'm writing the fourth book, it's no secret the fourth book is about the religion and the red pill and this is part of what I got into. One thing I'm really kind of getting sick from is listening to more TradCon guys or quote unquote neo-masculine guys saying, well, you need to go find a traditional quality probably just muted yourself. Sorry, where do you find that quote unquote quality woman? Well, you've got to go to church or you've got to go find her in a bookstore or you got to go find her somewhere where sluts don't go, right? Which of course I guess they're all reading in Barnes and Noble or some shit like that. The church is one of those places I think you need to understand the dynamics of why women go to church in the first place. Just as Donovan was saying, women go to church when they want to get right with God when they're in their epiphany phase. And I would argue that the women who are in church that you would want to get with in any way either were raised in that church or else they came back to that church after their party years because now they want to get with the beta bucks guys and now they want to get right with God and now they want to do things the right way. And now, well, I'm looking for a guy who's a good provider and it's not like one of these bad boys that impregnated me and I've got two kids by right now. I need a guy who's also a strong man of God who's going to take care of me and my kids and a man up and be a chivalrous night and shining armor to come and get me but he's got to also love Jesus because real men love Jesus, right? And so I think that's the appeal for women to go back to church because it's sort of the symbolic thing for them to go back to church to prove that they're getting right. And the other thing is if you look at Christianity in particular, it's based on forgiveness. So when women have become, they've got like two kids and they've got tats and whatever else and they've lived this party girl lifestyle for most of their 20s, they're looking for that forgiveness. They want to be absolved of the indiscretions that they took when they were, when they had a better capacity to explore their hypergamist natures. Well, now they don't. Now I'm 29 and between 29 and 31 years old, I'm about to hit the wall. I'm in my epiphany phase and I need a guy because I'm getting right with God and he's forgiven me and I'm starting all over again. I mean, even to the point where some of these women are saying, yeah, I'm a born again virgin. I mean, that is actually the thing. Listen, so I'm just telling you, like right now, women is just what Rich was saying. Women are women no matter whether you find them in church or you find them. That's why people really take me to task on this. They say, I'm looking for a quality woman. A quality woman is X, Y and Z. And I'm like every guy who married, I hate to pick on your rich, but I'm sure that your ex-wife, you said, this is a quality woman. And what did you call her after the divorce proceedings were over? I can't believe that bitch did this to me. And I'll tell you that that's the thing is women are women. They have the same potential to go feral whether they're a Christian or they're a biker chick from hell, okay? I mean, it's the same. Hypergamy is hypergamy no matter what demographic you're looking at. And then just to finish off here, this is actually going to be a part of my book and a book four where I go into the aspects of why women get into religion to begin with. All right, so Donovan, you wanna wind it down? Yeah, this is real quick. Girls use religion and celibacy or I'm a born-again virgin. They use this to artificially inflate the cost of their affection, okay? Women know they ain't shit, right? Like they know this. So they're out there slutting it up. Guys know their sluts, guys know, you know, she's got tattoos, she's got a baby daddy, this and that and the other. So she thinks to herself, what can I do to separate myself from other women? What can I do to raise the price? What can I do to make men work harder for me? In other words, what can I do to get more out of men? I'm a born-again virgin or yes, I'm in the church. They do this because they think that this makes them a higher quality woman. Oh, you're a Christian. Oh, you must be high quality. So let me treat you with chivalry. Let me shower you with gifts because you're not like the other girls. Oh, you've been celibate for three years, right? Oh, well then that must mean your vagina is more valuable. Let me shower you with gifts and attention because I'm gonna treat you just like a virgin. Oh, yes, you've been celibate for three years. So let me treat you like someone who hasn't had sex in three years. Like this is what they do. They make these declarations to artificially inflate the cost of their attention. And that image fits in to the beta male blue pill hope for the future, okay? That when that guy gets to be 29, 28, 29 and this woman shows up and she's got tats. She looks kind of hot, kind of like those girls that he wanted to get with when he was 20, but no, she's like those girls only better because she's a Christian, right? And now I've been, you know, socking my money away. I've got my degree. I've made partner and the attorneys, whatever. I've done everything by the old set of books and the old rule set. Now here comes this girl and she says, you know what? I'm not like those other girls because I'm a Christian. She fits in to that guy's blue pill ideal. And he thinks he thinks he's finally hit paid her. I've got this one story. We're just real quick. There's one guy who was, I think there's this one woman who was like an ex porn star who found Jesus. And now that's like her shtick. And so she, she's like now they pastor's wife because she's got, that's her story. That's her testimony, right? She's got passed all of that. And of course, you know, I will tell you right now. Yeah, maybe she was a pastor as well. She comes the highest SMV bitch in that church right there. She, she puts every other woman to shame. Doesn't matter what the, you know, what that other chick has been doing for the rest of her life because she used to be a porn star and, but she's a porn star for Jesus now and she's okay with it and she's forgiven. And she's this ideal sexuality, but she is also this, you know, she's also this Christian. So she fits into that, that kind of celebrity for those, for these guys. Women know what the whole ideal is. That's why they try to put themselves into that box. So there you go. All you have to do is repent your sins and off you go bitches, you're all good. All right, so let's wind down the episode. That was an amazing session, gentlemen. That was two hours of awesomeness. We're back next week, same place, same time, 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Make sure if you're watching this as a replay and you didn't get the notification, it's probably because you didn't bang the notification bell or set the reminder when it was alerted to people that we built this event. So make sure you do that, because apparently subscribing to YouTube channels doesn't mean shit anymore. You actually have to hit the notification bell to get notified of live events. Again, my panel today is Anthony Johnson to the 21 convention. If you're interested in attending, I believe he's got less than 10 tickets left now. The link will be in the description below. Carl of Block Labelogic, Donovan Sharp of The Sharp Reality and of course, Rolla Tomasi of The Rational Male. Yours truly, Rich Cooper of Entrepreneurs and Cars. You can find all of her stuff in the links below. They'll be in the links in about 20 minutes. So just sit tight and we'll see you guys next week. Peace out.