 on configuring it to all our collective ideas or problems. It should be a brainstorming talk to set up a presentation because the presentation we already did. Yes, all right. Do you need to be running Debian in order to make Debian Live CD? Not exactly. You need a shell and you need a CD bootstrap. And a CD bootstrap has a factory binary. That means as long as you execute that, you don't have a shell and it's going to be everywhere. Okay. I'm running Ubuntu. Ubuntu is anyway no problem. Yeah. And I previously made a Live CD with just gnome sword. Yeah, I'd like to see. Maybe you know the answer already. Would it be smaller if I rolled it in Debian than it would be in gnome? Gnome is like a desktop environment. You can rip it out and it'll get a lot smaller. I mean, based on Debian, it's only like what? 100 megs or something? 100 megs. Yeah. Okay. But I want to run gnome sword. So I have gnome. What's gnome sword? Sword. Because it takes down the users gnome. Oh, yeah. If you just need one package and you go standard, if you only need one additional package, except for low-level stuff to boot, then you set a standard and say one package smaller. And then we use that as always. And this goes in all the way with the package. So you don't need to, as long as you stay with Debian, you don't have to choose a choice to say, I don't want that no package or that no package. Because as soon as you select one, you get automatically all the right depends booting anyway. So this could be easy for you. But you started. I'm lower than that. You started higher. You started with just use the standard package. I don't know, you know, how to do that. Every Debian package has a priority. That can be extra or optional or expired. Yeah, that's more kind of, yeah. And there is a type which means essential. And if a package is essential, you need it in order to boot. Okay. Except for what I'm asking you. If I bring up terminal, if you have got terminal, what's the first thing that I need to try? Wait, I want to explain you what you have, why you have it to boot. Then I'll tell you how to boot. Yeah, okay. So what you need is just the standard selection for each package of priority standard or highly. That's what you need for the basic system that it boots and that you can use network. Yeah, okay. And then you take this collection and you say, give me an additional package which is known so. Yeah. And then as I put in all the required package, you don't care about them because they are just weekends. They are cool things. So you do co-made life with like P. And dash P is standard to select the standard list which you need. And then dash dash package and for example known so. And that's all. What about getting just one example on the project? Yes, yes. It's pretty. If you want to do the same example so you can just order and store live help from live.dev.net. It's very good for you. You can use my... Yeah. What do you want to use? Okay. We have a big good charge. How much is it? A big what? A big font. Oh. Well, I got an expert, a font expert sitting right next to me. What are you going to do? Anyone with specific questions or other? But it's not moving. Can you build a live CD that's also active in the store? So you can... Yeah, well... So you can run it in the store and also run... Sorry, sorry. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. It's not working. That's very nice. That's no problem. You can install that I... Yeah, sorry. I got a demo running here of a live thing that I made earlier and it's basically for the Japanese people. We don't have any Japanese people here. So it's got extra packages like for Japanese fonts and things like this and the keyboard switcher. The switcher comes up down here on the bottom right, so they can change between who we're going to and can't take the prano or whatever it's called. Do you have a config at all? Sure. And I do have the config, the config is in svn.dev.net. It's all pretty software on the subversion repository. And of course to shut this down, you have to do a scroll down the power button. Yes, with some of the configurations are in the subversion. There's my configurations and Daniel's configurations and they're a very good starting point. Because they actually work. To start a new project you could just make live config. These builds are the full configuration tree that you can navigate. If you have installed a live helper you could try these right now and look at the tree. The tree should be some sort of easy to navigate and config the configuration files of the four phases. The bootstrap phase has a very complete file, so you can customize the bootstrap phase. And you could customize the chip through the building phase. The binary phase is what we use to create the final image. So an easy image. Or USB image. Yes. Or a network image. The network turbo is constructed of two directories. One to easily configure the server you would like to use to distribute those network images. And the other part is the root fs. That as a default it is for the network system as a plain directory. So no compressive file. No file image. Just a bunch of files that you would put on your server. Some things that you could need to prepare a custom system. Our custom boot screens. When you boot up CD you can put a whole load of cheap codes which are documented somewhere on the wiki page probably. Like this one cheap code which is called 2RAM which basically loads the CD into memory. And once it's all booted up you can take the CD out and boot it onto another machine with the 2RAM option and use the CD and boot another machine. So instead of having the machine in there all the time you can take the CD out which is good for some like kiosks. Because they worry that people might run away and steal the CD or something stupid. And it runs a lot faster from there. Yeah it runs a lot faster now. I'm going to do it right now. But it does take a little bit of time to copy into it right now. I think there's a reasonable thing. So the initial printout takes a few minutes. Like a minute longer than it should be. Not for sure anymore. This is pretty quick though. The USB version is like one minute to load. It's just a USB flash team. Yeah probably. I haven't got the artist experience to do it. It's a nice artwork. Really a splash paint. So yeah. The boot parameters are important. Parts of the arguments especially with these things. If you're trying right now and those make life of big and stuff and have some questions about how to do your particular custom live. It's pretty easy to do your own splash image and stuff. You've all done that before. So you take Pacifica. What do you think you're doing? Well I know Holger did some work on the live CD from he gave it to you. For the easy things, I think it was just as hard to practice. I'm a little controversial. For a hard part, which would make it a lot more useful is to provide different profiles for live images from the same image. So you have like a server live image and a client live image. Good thing for the same image. We can do that. But as most of the things in live artwork, it's just a lack of time. I think that our first approach is partial images on the same media. We just need to tell live artwork to create those in automatic fashion. At the moment it's a matter of priority. I tried last week to fix the output but because of lacking hardware I couldn't finish it. So next week I finished this and afterwards I moved on to the next step. And it's somewhere on my to-do list, somewhere in the middle. So that means two weeks from now, maybe three weeks. But you could build it some sort of manually now. And a live image that will look for a module.config file. The exact name is on the main page. There are a list of which different file images should be put together. So you could provide on the same media different lists for different boot methods. And if you use group grab as boot loader, you could do different boot with different boot parameters that tell live artwork in NITRA MFS to look at different files. That means different lists and different results of the root FS. Yes, as I said the code to do that automatically, let's build a site that is in working progress. It will be finished. But those live in NITRA MFS thing could open the road to also multi-arch and all different boot types on the same media. The long time for LENI is to have at the same time when LENI ISO schedule is that we have a double NITID which offers live sessions for XR86, NG64, PowerPC at the same time with all three desktops including source which makes it... And of course the possibility to install these best practices and then have the alternative disk want to get away. And hopefully when LENI gets released, do all the activities actually. So, yes. And anyone who is looking for practical deployments like X, X detection is pretty damn good actually. Even an edge. So, if you're going to make the device in our city and put the people using it, I've got a good chance I think of getting the working system going pretty quickly. X working, sound working. And if you're not happy with the default X detection from the XOR practice, you can actually install extra configurator which is doing a slightly better job. It can configure X during good so it will work for live series and actually it's default in LTSP. Actually it's prepped. But we don't use it as default because we don't want to diverge from dabbing by default. We offer all the fancy stuff we can never imagine but by default we do only dab parts which dabbing of us are default too. Otherwise it will create another distribution and we don't want to do that. But now if you install XDabConf on your target system, when the Inetram FS is generated, you look for the presence of XDabConf and if present it puts it on the Inetram FS then you could activate it with the boot parameters. So if your city does not boot X on a particular machine, you could try also the XDabConf way. Well, it depends on your point of view. As far as I can see, it's part of StabVenny. It's the main but it's not connected by default. Because no one actually has time to integrate all the code. And for Venny it's probably going to be a waste because XOR is going to do it automatically on its own. So hopefully we can get rid of the entire configuration part. Hopefully. Yeah, so we would like to integrate all the things that could lead to prepare complete DVD for giving out the boot at the events. So we could have live DVD, multi-art, live DVD with installer, live system and maybe also with your PSL. Something valuable for Windows users. So they could build a DVD or CD inside their machine and something happens that shows the power of that. You're just working on that? He has. Basically providing a small auto-run stuff from the first people where they have millions of games. I want to run the system in a virtual machine. So I'm just going to wait. This is a big one and this is going to be slow because it's human. Well, I was thinking of doing a goodbye Windows but it dumped the answer to the Windows file system and editing the menu. It can be an option. Could you look at it before running? It's easy to have the open office, firebox, fireplace or the university. You put the CD in and it pops up with do you want to install open office? No, it's about just copying QMU for Windows. So people... So this menu coming in says I want to run a system and live CD in a QMU machine. So I don't even have to reboot my machine to test it. I'll try to reboot that. Do you know when 32.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 when 32.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0. This is a small Windows file. You click on it, and it downloads the main install image and computes your booting on Windows. You restart and it puts into the disk. I mean, for instance, because you need to have the partitions, etc. We must have to say, we have an image, we have a city, so we don't need any partitions. If you do the same as the life city, you get the windows along, which means windows for a lot of love, and eventually a lot of people say, my fancy life city, and it's around the nature's peak. That was the point I wanted to point out. The only disadvantage of a life city is that you have to be good and good. Which I personally think works. I'm going to do that, I'm going to try that, I think. I think it's about getting the best opportunity for windows to self-imprive. A good world of people. I don't think it's an attribute by default, but maybe some people doing a life city would want to have it. My question was actually, what's your opinion about not doing a life city? Because it's easier, because you don't have to be good. Yes, because getting into the fire city could be scary. No, you don't have to go into the fire city with windows only. Yes, like the one. We have also a new parameter that does half of the work for it. But also, instead of to run, we could use to disk, echo, some partition, and the live media is copied on the partition. So if we just have the code to integrate the windows with loader, and to load that, they could choose from the windows with loader, which kind of system they want to do. The live system from their disk partition. Live in it around FS is not really here for writing on an FS media, because we need to use a fuse. And when changing the route, we need to protect the fuse, which is a user process to be killed before launching the new unit. So there are some tricky points that need to be fixed. The read part, it's okay, because we could use the NTFS kernel module. So we don't need a user process for having a partition mounted or an image file mounted. I think you were both speaking about something completely different. And what we were speaking about is that Robert asked some months ago if I could look at his windows loader. I regard to the windows loader. And I'm pretty sure he will add, as soon as we have the ISOs on, I'm pretty sure he will add an entry, so that he can choose do I want to download and install for this cool entry. Then I think the windows loader is a bit of size. So I think for windows we could use the almost thesis version. You just have to enable software that does that. Now that's changed with the scene. So you just have to reboot his computer to run it. Yes. And even if it's a very good screen, it's like... It's something that I wanted to do with the windows loader. You probably have to reboot the machine if it's still in KMU. No? No? Why would you? This is Windows, right? You install something once you reboot it. You don't have to install it. It's exactly like in Linux. If you don't want... You don't have to install KMU. Just in a minute. Anyway, it's not bad to reboot it. And if you don't, you can just run it. What did you say? You just have bad view of windows. I'm sure it's company since the last use of it. Open it a bit. There are more people because of the speed of running QN instead of... I think you have to have quite a while to say it's going to be installed from the city and because it's in a virtual machine. Anyway, there's some exciting developments and there's a whole lot of ways that people can get on Derby now thanks to Derby Live. Especially because the windows loader is probably integrated on the Linux. That's the most easy way to integrate it because it will be anyway pushed. But we need to tell about the issues because that's the good words because at the good time it's not only looking for CDs. Live in e-trum has scans for all what devices. So also updates and USB keys to look for a particular enabled directory which contains one or more file images. So this is why that solution to work also without the CDs. We need just to batch the windows with lawyers to do that. I don't think that's an issue. No, it's not an issue. It's just for letting the most of the people... Maybe, if... Just try and see. It might be just interesting... If you include it in the main side of the photo group it's not going to do anything anymore. So use a magnet from two houses on which... A magnet has a space to copy the files. Two questions. First of all, a big problem for school linux the magnetic building of the live CDs is that they didn't need to be done as we did and this is really, really... on that. So if it's possible to get it done through to a changeable system to avoid with a piece of paper, we need ideas for that. The problem is that you need to... The problem is that it doesn't work as we... If we don't actually need to work it's possible to go to a different work. I had asked Bastian some time ago but he didn't do something back and it wasn't so important for me to... have the L button again and it would be really nice if you could have see a good step with the flag, no croc or whatever and then you can run it as you use it. As soon as you can do that you can build a secure and a changeable whatever just for the changeable thing you can see. And everything else doesn't need to be so... I'm really looking forward that Bastian can implement that. This is a problem present with... I don't use the bootstrap for similar reasons why is that it has more bugs than the bootstrap for my part of the build. It does not create a full static depth directory you can't compile bashing it for example and for me it's very important that you can run life help anywhere where you have a shell and the bootstrap is static running and the bootstrap is not that portable as the static running route. That's why I didn't try to see a bootstrap so much. Maybe you know it can be used without having it. I don't know. The boss needs to mount routes within the changeable out of the box without touching it needs to mount more from within the changeable. It depends on how front mount you say. No, I say that out of the box you would need to patch it as well to make it work. But it's bash code so it's easier. But from quite a few that you won't want to multiply packages it sucks so... that's the nature. The bootstrap was just added to the even in-store under a sub-version repository so there is more people capable of modifying it and the last 24 hours have seen that level of patches being both from the boot and from other people that has been waiting for a poster I think. So it could be possible and for another even in-store we actually had to rewrite quite a lot of tools to be able to build it without bootstrap solution. But the M-tools suite has really really cool texture work of the files that are requiring the viruses and all these kind of things. So it's important to change the tools if the tools is a problem and being able to build without boot is quite important for the project. The other question I have is whether you're building a live system it's useful to be able to restore local configuration if you make an app server and you want to be able to store the other information somewhere can you store it on a USB stick or whatever storage area can you for example make a small additional other store changes to the live system there? Okay it is already supported in four different different manners in the live in-train methods there is also a small utility which is I'm not which have many targets that are not all tests but basically there are the persistent feature that means that your union FS is based over the collection of redone if a system is run in standard builds and the standard way is the space system and the RAM disk that gives the read write persistence means that instead of using a RAM disk we use another partition or image file on a red table block device so all changes made to the boot system you could stop the cases they are all persistent on that device if you could bring this device with yourself you could boot it on another machine and have your system as it were working before this persistence but have some problems with the USB keys that have a fixed number of writing possible so we also have a snapshot type of persistence which doesn't touch the union FS the union FS is done like the standard way with the RAM disk but at your requirements or at reboot or else fix copy the difference between copy the RAM disk in fact which contains the difference between the system that you use and the read only part of it on a red table device partition image file or this EIO archive squash FS file both are the two systems the first system is with read only media like read table series with multi-session you could add more squash FS files on the boot side on the boot image by adding a session you could add your difference as you previous run of the system on it so you could launch your own system, customize it have those changes fixed on a compressed put on the CD again in a multi-session type or just remaster another one with two files and then you could have those difference recorded for future users how easy is it to enable is it like you plug in a USB pin and it asks do you want to store the state of this pin or do you have to run the house and square design it is a work in progress my idea was to have a small buoy to do that I just wrote a shell script to do that it is called live dash snapshots but it is a little buggy for some targets when it is complete I will add a buoy so the user could just click on her sink or a snatcher tip and the buoy asks from some parameters like where or if we try my idea is also to try auto-detector which would be the most probably USB stick partition to do the snatcher tip in I think we would need a very simple solution for final users it should be simple yes so make sure you run and I can use it did you explain all the following just click here it is okay just another question it is possible to have some data but it is filled with data and put it on the LCD for instance can you regulate a little bit more actually sorry for asking about USB really it only seems to work on new machines so that is something very mild it is pretty cool to do that from the USB but it won't work on old machines basically but by any new machine it will be quite old you might sometimes get away with virus upgrades or you could just put those current images and the Emitra Mathes from other media and then the Emitra Mathes is cons and USB to show you that you can have a floppy to stick in and so on are there any more working on the feature like you use the windows out the room you just plug in the USB stick it loads everything in the room and you can do it from there Emitra doesn't sport you as easily yes something asked me about QNU it is slow but just take over the machine and pop some yes but these things are fast like you can put an engine x40 and have a useful system so it is pretty cool and the room is fast of course you could partition your USB with only parts and a right table part you might use for your differences the partition or the image file on the USB sticks have a particular name it is at full time it will be recognized and we try to add it as a persistent system or as an action system then all the things that are recognized at full time when you reboot or add we are thinking back so your grandmother if you prepare the stick well could use without picking anywhere right now not only the targets targets for a snapshot of persistence are the different way you could store those information the different way are wall partition I am an image file of a partition that resides on another partition also windows 1 a CPIO compressor with the zip file and the squash effects so you have four different targets that could be used to store the difference and the live snapshot helper which is a simple snapshot script is not yet well-desked so it may be some but you are all encouraged to try it and report why so many options? because we had some different people needed different features and we imagined different scenarios those live systems were used by people who need to put from the network people need to access those systems those differences in other systems those need a very small system so the archive doesn't need a lot of dependency to work it could be used by a very small system the other types needed more models or utilities like squash effects type needed to have squash effects tools installed on the live system otherwise you cannot proceed back when shutdown or halted so we just put in all the stuff required we hope for the bugs to emerge and fix them back to Andreas and your questions as you know the live helper is important and you would need to know which one to run in order because it's really sad we have a radical you can use main tag with parameters like pkd kd desktop this builds you an image with kd desktop ask bird questions if you for example want to specify the mirror you would do this we're going to want to install the knowns to kd so it all works like this you use parameters and it just works if you need more you can call it in two steps which is similar to aww yeah not yet tested on the won't do that much the same result as calling lx conflict alone then you get this directory which is about every night conflict directory and in this directory there are a lot of conflicts as you see there are for each stage there is an individual conflict like finding a new step changing the common source for individual helpers you have conflict directory the most important ones are if you have a list of packages you want like I don't know doodle dwm or similar and you don't want to specify them always in this manner this works as you know it gets you a very long common line so you use conflict files for this and then you would do you would do this and you can add a whole bunch of individual conflict files and all these packages stated in these files are installed in your chain route that's the alternative way of using common line options to make them the same as you see here for example in chain route you can specify all those dirty options for example which chain route files you want to use in the image if you want to compress the image then you can use the spatial files if you want the x the second example files you can put it there or you can use plain files not compressed just copied interactives for debugging if you want some books also works you can add your funny package here that's also the same if you just have one more you can select one of one of a selected list shake it lists are in user let's say junior and you see it includes GNOME junior packages and junior GNOME packages which packages these are exactly so if you just want GNOME you don't care you just give me packages GNOME and you end up with GNOME you don't need to specify them and in the case you said before you just wanted GNOME sort yeah there is another package and it's in a bar it's called GNOME sort.dev how's it stand it really don't just GNOME sort all over like this no dash in the middle okay that's available so you would just do a fresh configuration and add in the file a better change route you would do this once you have made everything you can either call each stage of one means something like this or because you are lazy you would just do this do that now that I have messed up with the conflict specified strange options don't remove stuff I have ruined I can do everything it's also fast in your case I would ask I would add desktop task because it's the most useful now it runs you wait 10 minutes however you find your machine and you end up with a nice image it's pretty easy space in time there should be space I should work while it's built in what was that life security variable and security updates mentioned in some places it doesn't make sense in some other places it doesn't make sense to have security updates from the security repository yes it just says that it doesn't include the 50 smears if they are confident another thing is you can use you can disable app security in some cases if you want to build really small images you don't want to have no pgp otherwise you end up with a couple of deep heads and if you want to go below 50 megabytes you have to exclude it for some users this is important because they really need small images and that's why lifehackers support it although normal users should not do that is it possible to still get security updates without installing gpg or something like that those are two internet instances the one thing is that you can verify the release pass with the valid gpg signature and that doesn't have anything to do with if you use security repository or not what would be a case when it is okay to build ISO image with no security I don't know about other people but I personally do not care security at all that means for testing an image I don't care about security updates that's why I exclude it internal option what my question was if I have an application that has created database so how can I how do I open a new tab here open a new tab open a new tab what do you want new tab control shift and end end okay as you can see now you see the actual change route is change route print and that's where all the stuff is and if you look in the conflict directory we have this directory named change route local includes if you're done this is considered the route of the includes if you want to fuck up the system even this yeah you would do this then you would overwrite your pass pass yeah just sorry not edge ETC it's just a route everything you pull in there gets copied over to there with full pass so it must create the path the same with binary local includes there is a similar directory for including things on the live media live media means the easing agent maybe or the QMU autoboom autoboom you put it there yeah and the great thing about this is that you just need this configuration directory you can trash everything you have as long as you have this directory you can always review the image and you can easily switch between different distributions if you select in change route the distributions yeah that's it at the moment we default to edge so that by default users end up with a usable system if you change that to any if it's a set or language and that's really easy because if you remember back to knopics, remaster or whatever you can do that you always need to start again from scratch and here you have the easy possibility to switch between releases and keep to conflict the same it works even if you want to you could also proceed the packages at the big time they will be configured for the final images build so you could proceed the file with that kind of questions as per the how you like and have the system configured not in the default way but in a custom but this is not the the one that has all the live series is completely developed the historical context is this in the first was to enable the root of with only media take all the package so we took this because the design took this to Debian and after sometimes we had to double prefer because it was really hard to manage patches and now thinking from the point is easier than thinking from Debian the build system at the time we started in spring 2006 they were not allowed to show their build system that's why we had to implement a live helper the basically it works the same way frankly spoken Debian might as last part but it works the same way that's the way that they have it it works the same way but it works the same way it works Ubuntu has an installer application which you can point on your desktop and it's uncompressed as the squash as an image to a hard disk partition and that's some questions like time zone or passwords or whatever and the problem about this is that it's a third application you have it's not integrated in the I we didn't want to go that way to import an additional installer in Debian and with the great work of Otavio he did in a speak the first start of it is already committed to the IREC means in future you can just put in a Debian CD and depending if it's a live CD you will end up with a live CD on the hard disk and if it's a normal system it affects the package from the internet or from the CD if it's a full CD but from the user point of view you don't see any difference and that's the way to go because then you have order one it's all to support you when this finish this and I make the live CD how many language options will the user have we do not strict the packages means you have the same as you would have 200 and something different languages by default we did not specify a root parameter that's why the default is English if you add a language that equals for example DE then known will be automatically start with German with German keywords and so on this is nice because you do not first you do not articulate which is good and second you have always the possibility to change the language with one CD you can go somewhere take it to your holidays and depending who wants to work with you this thing has the right languages the bad point about this that it takes of course more space if someone wants to strict that yes in the directory change with local books here you can put in as many scripts as you want those scripts are executed they can be in every whatever language the change would execute most of you is passionate you could go for example that would be on the boot screen when it comes up if I change root local books and add several more languages these will all be choices on the boot screen no because we do not display the GDM for selection if you want that you can add no X and then it goes directly to GDM instead of auto same for console we do not have an auto level maybe 3 users one called live user and there is one for french people and the third user for spanish people you just have to switch but what do you need to do to have many users and I want to have this demo in french and it is french user you need to use your books for that they are not on the boot to configure more than one user with different kind of locators and so on to provide a script to that now just have to create a script to write the script put in those change root auto books will be executed on the change root at the end of the starting phase so you could have an opportunity to do some spec magic on your system before the binary images will be built a bit tricky possible yes but we cannot imagine all the user's cases without a helper I want to comment that I don't like the approach of putting every locale on the cd image because it can get really messy and I prefer to build isos for smaller the exact right fonts there and the people don't have to choose a keyboard to protect the spanish user I have a spanish friend I moved the complexity from like building and building the system to choosing the right cd some user that doesn't actually well, you have content negotiation on the website go to spanish download it's hard to make a mistake school in the spanish area in new york used ok I think it's pretty easy to choose the right cd and in use it's really easy ok, time is out tape is out