 Good content is really probably the number one priority for for most marketers. And when I say that, I think you got to understand or think through what that actually means. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales and outperform your competition. Alright, everybody, welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams alongside my host, Beth Poptiklov. And today we're talking about best favorite subject content. It's going to be an awesome episode. We've got a bunch of great information to share with you, as well as a great, not just one time or two time but three time guest is going to be joining us. I think at three times you get a t-shirt. You do. You get a t-shirt and Beth will name her third child after you. Done. Great. That's a deal. We are so honored to welcome back Greg Wyman. He is the founder and managing partner for Market Thrive. He is a genius when it comes to imagery. He's got great insights to talk to us today about how content can help you improve your marketing, improve your customer experience, grow your sales, solve all your problems. Greg, welcome back. Thank you guys. Can't wait to get into this discussion. And I don't want to ask ahead of time, but I may go back and research myself if there's ever been another three-peat guest. Have we had another three-peat? I'm not going to say on here, but the likelihood is high. Maybe. I'm not as special as I once thought here. You're at a very elite club. It is a very elite club. It's a t-shirt coming your way. Excellent. Extra small. So, Greg, for our listeners, if they don't know who you are and what your organization does, why don't you just give us a 30,000 foot view and then we'll dive into picking your brain about content and where things are headed. Sounds great. So, managing partner Market Thrive, we focus on delivering better content through CGI production and content includes product images, videos, 360s, installation instructions, all those things that come with creating digital content in the digital world. You know, and Greg, we've had you go on a couple of times and you know, you have some really great insight about what's happening from a visual perspective. Like we do a ton of work and when it comes to how do we market to different audiences and things of nature. And one of the things I just want to start off and talk about is, you know, there's sometimes a conversation like, oh, well, we don't need strong visuals. We don't need these things. But one thing we've seen time and time again is that if you're let's say trying to improve, let's say the performance of a website or trying to improve the conversion rate or the sales rate on a given page, one of the very first things you're going to test is imagery. And so that's why I'm really excited to talk to you to hear a little bit about, you know, what data are you seeing in the marketplace? What can we share with our audience? And how can that influence some of their strategy? So I know you come at this a little bit different this around we asked you to come on. You've actually prepared some some data and some information, which we'll make sure we include in our YouTube channel as well. But maybe we just dive in there, you know, if we can ask you, you know, what are some of the things that you're seeing and then how is that impacting how manufacturers should be marketing? Yep. So again, I think as we all experienced this new wave, this continued wave of digital growth, how we interact with our phones are, you know, all these platforms that are now helping us reach our customers. I think what we're seeing and, you know, even personally what what I saw in my roles in marketing, you know, in previous positions, but what we're seeing in the e-commerce space, what we're seeing from brand building is that good content is really probably the number one priority for most marketers. And when I say that, I think you got to understand or think through what that actually means. It's, you know, these platforms are how customers learn, how they engage, how they understand really why they should buy or be interested in your product. You know, there's a new term floating around now, digital shelf, that I think sums it up. You know, this idea of what used to be sort of in a traditional physical space is now living on this digital shelf. And I think that's where this content all lives. You know, whether it's images, product content, animations, videos, you know, they have to live on websites. They have to live in social media, email marketing, webinars, you know, you name it. They, that content is really the touch point, if you will, for how customers learn about your product, but the product story as well. So, Greg, can you talk to us a little bit more about, like, where do I see or how can I make an impact with my digital shelf? What's the line between negative impact from a digital experience, negative impact from the content that I have to making a positive impact with the content imagery in the digital shelf? So, I think there's a couple of ways to look at it. There's a lot of data out there that's supporting how much this digital shelf, if you will, the photos and the videos, how much that's actually playing a role. There's a lot of third party groups out there that we utilize their studies. 72% of all consumers say that photos and videos are the number one thing that helped make decisions for them. Number one. Number one. Oh, I'm not surprised. I mean, that sounds, it's very high, but I'm not surprised. I mean, like... I just thought 72% is like, more than I want to read your value props, more than I want to, I mean, because it's, you get that installed imagery, you get to see it in a live environment. It's as close as you can get to touch and feel. I know it makes sense, but that's, I mean, that's got to stop you on your tracks a little bit. And I, sorry, Greg, I totally cut you off. I just, I'm thinking of the number of manufacturers we talk to on a regular basis who are struggling with imagery. Again, it's kind of a daunting task. Yeah, it is. It absolutely is. Because we're all expected to do more with less on some level and, you know, when we think through all the time and effort and money that it takes to create this imagery and these videos and this product content that, again, is no longer good enough just to get photos of it. You have to now use these images to help tell the product benefits, you know, their stats that show how important the quality of the product appearing in the imagery looks, you know, and again, that's probably not a new argument. We've always focused heavily on making the products look good in pictures, right? But the idea that people just aren't reading like they used to, you know, there's a statistic that says that 100% of visuals on an Amazon page are viewed and that includes videos as well. Whereas only 20, I think it's 22% of all copies actually read. So as you think through your own shopping habits and or how you make decisions, it's through our digital interactions, most likely judging pictures and trying to process what's good about the product based on what's being presented there. You know, Gray, I was talking to a manufacturer recently about their Amazon page and like their store and they were sharing how, you know, they were emphasizing and trying to improve conversion rate and trying to improve sales on Amazon and they shared with me a graph that they had where they're doing some A.B. testing on their page and the only thing they changed was they had a picture of their product like someone had taken a photo of it. It was a good photo. Then they had somebody do a 3D visualization of it. It like looked like, I mean, you didn't couldn't really tell it was a 3D visualization but you're like, man, that's like literally the most perfect way you could view that photo and they showed me the sales. It was like a hockey stick and like this is the only thing we changed and I was like, that's so funny because I look at those photos. I'm like, oh, like it's a little bit better. But it's like, if you think about how quickly we make decisions, you're right. Like if you go on Amazon, like you're looking like you're looking at products like this. It's super quick, you know, and that image has to resonate on multiple levels both rational and emotional very quickly. Not that everything is about Amazon, but I think it's a really good litmus test and really good example of how we buy online and how we think online and make decisions online. It's all, it's all visual. I'd love to hear your take on this. It's kind of interesting because we do a lot of search engine optimization. Like how do I rank on Google? It's very text focused. Now we're starting to, we're starting to see that imagery is playing more of a role because you know, there has been, you know, Google imagery, you know, ranking on Google images which that's a whole other strategy. But if you think about the main Google area, they're looking at text, but we know what influence is buying isn't necessarily just text. It's, it's much more imagery. So it's this really interesting dichotomy of having both, you know? Yeah. Again, I think it's that we're all pressed for time. Most of us are visual learners and or, you know, thinkers when it comes to the idea of making decisions. And I think there's this balance. You mentioned how your clients saw an impact based on improved 3D renderings versus traditional photos. I think that's just amplifying what's going on here, which is how do I really drill in and present the product in the most detailed versatile way that tells the benefits. And I think, you know, that's what renderings can sometimes do. I believe me. I think there's a place for traditional photography. There's, you know, definitely aspects that renderings can't do the traditional photography can, but there's this notion of forced perspective of consistency. There's so much comparison going on. Oh, yeah. You know, looking at one to the next that amongst your own products, you can make them look very consistent, perhaps just a change in an attribute or a color or a finish. But yet it looks exactly the same otherwise. So you have that creative control. And I think that's what people are seeing when they, you know, when they make those kind of comments or those kind of studies come out where it says how much impact renderings are now having in the space. In addition to what they do from a time savings or cost savings, you know, everything in the building material space, there's so much time and budget spent on finding a location, installing that product, you know, waiting for a good weather day, shipping all the product there. You know, the list goes on. When in actuality, we're seeing a lot of manufacturers now opening up to this idea of, you know, we can, we don't have to travel anywhere. We can create these environments. We can create, you know, different regional areas, make the homes or the structures look, you know, any way we want and not wait for the project to get, you know, to land the project to go take pictures. We can start the marketing ahead of time and get all the kind of work we want to go out and market to. So there's just all these aspects that again, it's kind of flipping it on its ear of how imagery is now, you know, helping accelerate those product launches and or strategies. Zach, it would be an interesting experiment to just look through like some top manufacturer websites versus other industries. Like really I'm thinking versus B2C. I'm just like running a catalog through my mind of manufacturer sites we spend time on versus like B2C sites that I spend time on. If I do like completely anecdotal comparison, I would say manufacturer sites are typically lighter on imagery than a lot of other sites than a lot. Well, let me say a lot of other industries. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I was thinking we're talking to a manufacturer recently about their site and we were trying to draw inspiration from like D2C brands and like consumer product brands. Like we were looking at the two ones. We were looking at particular. There were Harry's and Nike and we weren't even looking at like the architecture of their site because their sites are, you know, Nike is massive. Harry's is like we sell razors and we sell soap. But we were looking specifically at the imagery and if you look at it, you can tell that like their images look perfect. Like they look and like go look at those sites. They look absolutely perfect. Like the razors on Harry's like there's. I don't know how in the world that those are not 3D renders. But what's interesting and you said this a minute ago, Greg, and I think this is really important for manufacturers is that if we look at D2C, it's a really good inspiration for manufacturers because if it's working and it's happening at D2C, that trend is going to continue to move into building products, which tends to be a little bit of a, you know, laggard in terms of what's working in the space. And one of the big things we're seeing is like quick animations or quick videos of how a product is used. I'm even seeing this specifically on tool websites. I feel like you're going to Milwaukee great example. Any tool websites are great. So this Milwaukee drill. If you go to certain product pages and you scroll down, they'll have like a 3D render of one of their drills drilling into or drilling out of a piece of wood. So you can get a sense of that very quickly without like let me click the play button and the reason why you're seeing that is because even clicking a play button is a commitment. It's like, do I really want to watch that video? Which sounds funny, but it's like, that's how quickly we make decisions. So Nike, for example, and Harry's the second item on their product page is a video that automatically loops. It's like a, you know, five to eight to 10 second video that literally loops and they do that via, you know, sometimes via video traditionally, but some also, you know, via, you know, 3D animation in some way. And so I think that that's one area to be thinking where things are heading is how can you interject a way to explain your pride to showcase their pride and get that value prop across in a very quick manner. And so I really like that point you're making Greg is like you're thinking about planning. What kind of assets do you need? Well, like help me see the product in action. Help me feel the product. What's the benefit? And even if you sell something like gosh, like insulation, you're like, how do I see that product? I actually don't want to see it. Like there's ways that you can tell that story really effectively, you know, for sure. I think we're seeing a ton of growth in exactly what you're talking about. I called a digital demo of the product. But it could also be a how to assemble. You know, there's a lot of co-op that that obstacle if you will from a buyer or customer, which is what am I in for here? And if you can show easily how quickly something may go together, how quickly you're ready to get started. Once you once you receive it, how it installs all those type of things are part of the purchase now. And I think that's where all this content is starting to swirl together. You mentioned video. There are studies that show. Patera, which is a great source for e-commerce specific conversion data and things like that. 55% sales lift when adding a video to a product page. So it's exactly what you just talked about. It's that sort of extra reassurance of what am I getting? How does it perform? And at the end of the day, that helps your conversion rates. So it just shows how that that digital experience is now you know, influencing customers from all sides. Greg, please note. Are you seeing different types of imagery work better for different audiences? Like if I think about contractors, for example, contractors, they want how to videos very quickly. Like Simpson strong ties are a great example of that. Like if you go to their YouTube page, they got a million videos and they're all like how to use this fastener on this portion of a deck and it's like two minutes long, very quick to the point. But I'm curious to know like if I if I just throw you in a spot like architects, builders, contractors, whomever, are there different types of imagery and content that I need to support those audiences that you see that are working really well today? I think what we're seeing is the content topics are still consistent with what they've always been. You know, you've always had to show someone a demo. You've always had to show someone how something installs, but it's how you now present that obviously the digital platform. I can watch it whenever I need to, but then drilling in your question a bit more. I think it's how you present that and it's modular. It's very sort of by topic so that if I'm having a specific concern or issue with one portion of an installation, I can get right to that by topic and get my answer right away. You know, so I think as we think through traditional versus the give it to me now world we're living in, it's taking that previous long form and breaking it up into bite-sized content that addresses specific issues. Oh, yeah, that makes me think of, I mean, if we pull outside of, you know, if we look outside of building products and this is my may not be a great example, but like cooking, you ever look at like how to cook whatever and I was always like 85 photos of like so many photos, so many photos. I'm like, do people really need this many photos? But they know chop to care it before but it's interesting because but Google is looking at that and seeing that they're supplying user intent and it's also educating the person on the process a little bit more specifically. And so I think that begs, you know, the question, Greg of, you know, if you think about a shot list like your manufacturer, what kind of imagery do I need in my arsenal to support my marketing efforts moving forward? So there's a lot of data around this and I think there's there's a variety of call it quantity and quality aspects to that question. We've seen where you need at least four images of your product, but at the same time, you know, those four could be product dependent, you know, whatever that look, feel, touch version of your product needs to be but 360s again, there's all types of support showing how just the ability to spin a package that, you know, it can be a pack of batteries, but if you spin it people feel as though it's they're reassured that they're that much more assured by the purchase because they can, you know, look touch feel, but there's the whole you got to scale and proportion element to it. There's a product claim or a benefit, you know, you may be able to add text to an image and explain something that differentiates the product. There's the zoom and, you know, I mentioned the 360 aspect, there's the multiple views and then there's the video portions. I think that's what makes a good product content strategy for anything. You're really trying to bring to your customers in the digital world. I think there's all kinds of proof that says better content means better conversion and you mentioned Google, they're tracking all that and so they understand along with Amazon, Home Depot, Lowe's, all those dot com sites are seeing all this data and they understand that those who have better pictures, more pictures, better videos, more videos are selling more products. So guess what? They're now serving them up higher in search rankings because they want to sell more products. So it's this self-fulfilling sort of idea where better content sells more because you're going to win at the search game, you're going to win at visibility and you're going to win at the online customer experience that the customers crave. Greg, this is such an important conversation to be having right now because I know a lot of manufacturers are doing 2022 planning and in case it hasn't been clear throughout this podcast, I would be bumping video and imagery, even doing an audit of where you are from an imagery standpoint and what imagery needs to be added to your site. I would bump that up to the top of my priority list for the coming year. One way that we often see this come out is that struggle to feel like you have to say more and more and more on a website and your marketing department or your agency is telling you to cut down on the words that nobody's reading all of that. I think that's been really clear here is if you have that urge like, well, I often have to say this and I also have to. Oh, it looks installed here or why it works so well here where it's weather proof or it's this or it's that there's a lot of that story that could be told imagery for sure. And again, the stats really prove it out. Yeah, absolutely. And the retailers again are also beginning to really demand this from the manufacturers and the brands because they know that if they can offer their customer a better experience with more pictures, more videos that they're going to they're going to sell more products. And in many ways it goes right back to the intuitive side of it all of course, because it's always sort of been that way that great imagery sells products at a higher proceed value. But now it's taking that to an individual product level. It's not just a brand level. It's that has to be scaled to a point where all of your products that you want to sell have to have all of those those supporting content aspects. Absolutely. It's great. Right. This has been great man. Thank you so much for coming on the show. If our listeners want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that? They can visit our website at market dash thrive dot com can email me at Greg at market dash thrive dot com or I'm on LinkedIn of course as well. But again, I think where we can help assess the demands and needs of individual product assets is from a holistic perspective. Again, whether it's product images, products and environments videos and animations that that again help propel the customer experience in the online space. It's great for our listeners. If you enjoyed this content, make sure you go to venue dot com slash podcast to subscribe to next time. I'm Zach Williams alongside help the glove. Thanks everybody.