 What kind of world do I want to live in? I think about this question a lot. For our generation and for specifically my group of people, which is refugees, the circumstances might dismantle any vision of the future that we have. You're trying to rebuild, you're trying to make a future for yourself and then the climate-related disaster comes and you start again. It's not about how it affects you now, it's about how it affects you your entire life. The first step to understand is that we're all a part of it. None of us are going to be left out by the crisis. We're at a stage where if we don't act now, really there won't be very much left. There are generations that will never see certain things that we grew up seeing in real life. We have to start treating this like the emergency it is to achieve the 17 sustainable development goals. We have to go from an intention to a serious commitment. Business leaders really need to rethink how they conduct their business and invest in creating systems that are climate-friendly. The action I would like to see is accountability. Structures being put in place where countries aren't just asked to do something but they're kept accountable to the decisions that they make. There has to be that strong collaboration between government, between corporations, between youth activists to drag change forward. The world I would want to live in is a world where imagining the future is not a privilege. I want to live in a world where people do not give up on hope. Hope that a positive change is possible. The fact that you're listening today means that you are willing to make a change. Hello and good morning to you all. My name is Fipe Peters. Before the COVID-19 pandemic we knew that technology and the fourth industrial revolution could help Africa leapfrog its development. We had been speaking about it for quite a number of years but the pandemic provided the proof in the pudding that it can be done. We saw rapid acceleration of digital technologies and adoption over the past 18 months. And so we continued to leverage under lockdowns and we continued to go on business unusually as it were as a result of the lockdowns forcing many of us to do things remotely. What we have seen in the past 18 months in terms of how Africa has acclimatized to technology is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of how we can leverage it. There's still a lot more that we can do and a lot more that Africa should do to grow its economies and to grow it inclusively and sustainably. And so we have a conversation this morning on scaling Africa's digital transformation and how best that can be done. Let me introduce you to the panelists that I will be having this conversation with this morning. Beginning with Minister Joseph Mucheru, the Cabinet Secretary for Information, Communications and Technology, Innovation and Youth Affairs of Kenya, Ms. Crystal Rujieje, Managing Director of the Center for the Fourth Industrial Revolution of Rwanda, Mr. Ken Hu, the Deputy Chairman of Huawei Technologies and Ms. Natalie Paide-Jabengua. The Group Digital Executive Officer of Sandham. Good morning to you all. Good morning. Minister, if you allow me to begin with you, sir, because what we have seen is that Kenya has largely led the region's digital transformation, particularly in the fintech sector. What are your views on how Kenya and the region can leverage digital transformation, sir, to achieve the sustainable development goals? Thank you very much for this opportunity that you've given us to be able to participate. And let me say, you know, technology is dear to us and I believe is one of the things that really will help Africa live from. So as a country, in order to be able to leverage the technologies and all the new areas that are coming up, we must ensure that we have the right policies in place and strategies that can then be used as the roadmaps to implement. And for people to see how the governments are looking at this area and how we can be able to proceed and grow. So as Kenya, we are very happy first that we have a very large youth dividend. I think we have 75.5% of our population being just youth. So these are 35 million under the age of 35. They are very technology savvy and we've seen that we can use the technology to be able to work with them, whether it is in creating jobs, whether it's in being able to provide the services that are required, whether it is for education, for entertainment, these have been very key for us. And so even at an early age, we have ensured that within the schools, we have the right curriculum, we've put in the right infrastructure so that they can already begin to interact and engage with the technologies within government. We're ensuring that many of our services are now going digital so that other than even the ID, when we're putting a digital ID, we're ensuring that government services can be offered across the country from wherever you are just using the technology. So laying of the infrastructure, such as fiber, 4G, 3G technologies across in terms of networks, it is critical. So we as a government want to work very closely with the private sector and to be able to do that, we must have the right policies on how we can, the private sector can invest, protect their investment and be able to grow and continue to innovate in the ways that are necessary. So these are the things that we are putting in place as government. We have worked closely with the rest of the region and the continent under the Smart Africa initiative. And within that, we have planned the digital economy blueprint, our president launched that in Tigali. And we're working now with many of the other countries that have different blueprints that we're using for rolling out so that for instance, for our citizens, there is no roaming charges when you go to the initials of seven countries. You can be able to use your numbers so you don't have to be a different person when you go to each country and change your SIM card, mobile money, interoperability from one country to another and really with a continental free trade area within Africa. We're talking 1.3 billion people. Then we have a great market and opportunity to be able to leverage and grow. So these are some of the areas that we're looking at and really the collaboration and partnerships that we have are allowing us to be able to move that much faster and leap forward. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, minister. And suppose staying in the region and in Rwanda specifically, where it is now home to the Center for the Fourth Industrial Revolution, thanks to the collaboration between government, between the Ministry of ICT and innovation, as well as the World Economic Forum. And so, Crystal, I'd like to ask you if you could just share your view on how the Rwanda Center for the Fourth Industrial Revolution is shaping the digital transformation in Rwanda and the region. Thank you so much, Phi Phi. And good morning to my fellow panelists. It's a privilege to be a part of this important discussion. So, you know, as you mentioned, I'm leading a new entity called the Center for the Fourth Industrial Revolution here in Rwanda. And we are part of a global network of 13 centers around the world that were established by the World Economic Forum and in partnership with the government, host governments around the world. So the Rwanda Center and really broadly the center network, what our mission is is to really ensure that the Fourth Industrial Revolution is not just a revolution that benefits the privileged few, but really all of society. And so, how do we do this? You know, we co-design governance frameworks through continuous multi-stakeholder engagement and rapid piloting at a local level, continental level and a global level. And oftentimes I'm asked why is technology governance such an important issue? But we often have a scenario where the private sector is taking the elevator while the government is taking the stairs when it comes to regulating many of these emerging technologies like drones, artificial intelligence, for example. But the reality is that both the public sector and the private sector have a lot to learn in deeply understanding how to fully maximize the benefits but also minimizing, you know, the inherent risks that emerging technology introduces into society. And so what we are trying to do is really ensure that we are accelerating, you know, these benefits to society in an inclusive and responsible manner. So at the center here in Rwanda, we're focused on two platform areas. One is artificial intelligence and the other is data policy. And the two really go hand in hand. You can't begin to talk about digital transformation or things like artificial intelligence and machine learning without talking about data. And I think it's really important that we all recognize data as a strategic asset for countries, for businesses and for individuals. And so at the center, you know, over the past year, our first year of operation, really, we decided to prioritize a good chunk of our work around the critical piece of legislation on personal data protection and privacy. And this was recently adopted by parliament and is also soon to be gazetted. But really what we aim to achieve with this critical piece of legislation is first and foremost empowering citizens to have agency over their personal data. Secondly, is really being able to enable trusted and secure data flows. And not just domestically, because we don't, we can't operate within an island. You know, we need to do this internationally as well and ensuring that cross border data flows are possible. And lastly, being able to provide regulatory certainty for businesses. And so, you know, data is at the heart of digital, the digital transformation agenda. And this specific law is a very important step in Rwanda, but even in the context as we try to do business with the region and the rest of the world and creating an enabling environment for technology innovation, being able to attract investment, because we all see this as a key driver of economic growth. Mr. Hu, coming to you, sir, can you just perhaps give us the perspective from the private sector in terms of what you are seeing on the ground here in Africa? Because Huawei is working closely with a number of African partners in its attempt to accelerate the level of digitization as it were. I mean, you have brought 5G to many parts of the continent, including here in South Africa. So for that, I thank you. But can you tell us what you are seeing on the ground and what is essentially happening, sir? Thank you very much for the question. And it's a great pleasure to join the discussion about the digital transformation across Africa. In recent years, I have traveled to many African countries and I have observed great progress in connectivity, particularly the mobile broadband connectivity across Africa. Let me give you an example. From the network perspective, just in the past five years, the coverage of 4G network in Africa has increased from 11% to 49%. In fact, in South Africa, South Africa is already developing the 5G. This is an incredible progress in such a short term. However, compared to the rest of the world, the gap in Africa is still large, not only in network coverage, but also in the usage. For example, in Sub-Saharan Africa, 16% of people still don't have any wireless coverage, not even on Qt. More importantly, from the usage perspective, only 26% people are using the mobile internet in Africa versus 49% globally. And the penetration of social media in Africa is also lower than the rest of the world, just 11% versus 47% globally. I think there are two major barriers behind those gaps, the affordability and the lack of digital skills. For example, the smartphone is expensive in Africa. Many of us today have more than one device, a smartphone, a pad, a laptop, but the situation in Africa is different. In some low income communities, a simple smartphone can cost more than 80% of monthly wage. So as a result, the smartphone penetration in Africa is just 44%. However, if we look at the situation in Southeast Asia, the penetration is almost 100%. So the gap is big. Well, how we can deal with such gaps? The good news is that today, the demand for digital service and digital technology in Africa is massive. It's just like anywhere else in the world. For example, the mobile money is huge in Kenya right now and is making financial service more inclusive and people really love it. So we can expand these benefits to other sectors, but we need to do an effort, particularly the partnership between the private and public sector, which was repeatedly mentioned by previous speakers. So here I would like to share some of my thoughts. First, the government can take measures to encourage investment in both infrastructure. For example, to release spectrum faster and to provide subsidies when needed. Second, the industry, like the company of Huawei, can help create more affordable devices and network solutions for basic connectivity. And finally, to improve the digital skills, the public and private sectors need to work together to improve digital curriculum in school and provide training in remote region. So generally speaking, the digital demand in Africa is massive. The progress is incredible. However, more joint effort is needed to further promote the digital transformation across Africa. Thank you. Thank you. So to promote the digital transformation and also to narrow the present digital gap. Next, Lee, to come to you for your opening comments, ma'am. Just in terms of the mushrooming of the fintech and insure-tech industries that we have seen throughout the course of the pandemic, could you please give us your take on digital transformation as it does pertain to your sector in terms of financial resiliency as well as prosperity? Thank you very much indeed. I think it goes without saying that the role of digital transformation in Africa should really drive shared equity and shared prosperity. I think there are two things that really spurring digital transformation in Africa. First and foremost, that is the advancement in the digital infrastructure and that is also the change in consumer trends. The advancements in digital infrastructure is the penetration of more digitally enabled devices and I think access to internet penetration has fundamentally changed how our consumers globally, not just on the African continent, consume, transact, communicate, live and basically get on their day-to-day basis. And I think it goes without saying that as a result of these changes, private sector has been forced to deliver its services in a transformed way and that has really ushered us into the fourth industrial revolution. On the African continent specifically, I think we have leapfrogged where we have not fundamentally developed on the basic infrastructure architecture, which is your access to home broadband. And I think although we are predominantly on feature phones and are using USST capabilities, it goes without saying that just that has allowed Africa to innovate in very, very different ways to the rest of the world. In comparison, I think where we are is probably where China was 20 years ago and there is drive and scope given that Africa by 2050 will be the fastest growing continent in the world and will have the propensity in terms of demographic representation of the youngest population on Earth. And now if you have a look at that and this consumer trend that I'm talking about, there is no continent that is readyer than Africa in my perspective to be able to deliver on this. And so private sector particularly telcos have been moving very quickly into adjacent value chain industries, typically mostly financial services and disrupting how financial services is accessed by the masses and by the populace and there's been the rise of mobile money that we speak about delivering financial services in a way that banks fail to deliver in 100 years. And I think it is an opportune time to push further on advanced financial services. And for us at the Sunlam group is looking at things like insurance, it's looking at things like access to credit, it's looking to things like wealth management value propositions in equities and stocks for the mass and using digital infrastructure, particularly that one which is handheld and digital customer interaction platforms to drive education and awareness for this. But I think beyond the private sector, if we talk on social equity and resilience, something that's really coming through the ability to create jobs and certainly COVID goes without saying, Asia doesn't force all of us to deliver a digital workforce. Change fundamentally how we're supposed to work in a crisis and make it more digital if the gospel on digital itself was still unbelieved. But also I think when we talk about resilience, it's ability now to use digital even further beyond financial services into climate action, tearing up our actions as consumer citizens into the transactions and into the way that we actually drive commerce and enabling trade. And I think Mrs. Christo Rugega already spoke about that and a Honorable Minister already talked about that and how it is important to use digitization is that unique identifier that actually drives further commerce on the continent. Education, healthcare goes without saying that the pandemic revealed how further important the role of digitization is for us. So I think these are my early remarks in terms of the importance of digitization and shared equity, resilience and prosperity. Thanks, Nancy. I think that the panel has introduced the topic quite well just laying the groundwork for what we need to see a lot more of happening from a favorable policy environment that can encourage further private sector investments from a greater collaboration that will be needed amongst all stakeholders to create a shared value system. But also when we talk about the digital economy, we can't talk about the digital economy without also including a very important element to it. And that is energy and the lack of, in the case of the continent, which is presently the status quo. Today, the regional action group for Africa in collaboration with Deloitte has published a report on financing the future of energy. Because as I just said, if we don't have power, we don't have internet and we won't have digital transformation. So just speaking about this report more closely, given that right now digital transformation is no longer a nice to have. It's no longer something that's even optional. It's a necessity. So I'd like to ask the panel to just comment on the energy debate, as it were, beginning with you once again, Minister. Minister Mocheru, the white paper does speak of enabling technical expertise required to support the energy transition. How do you see the role of African use in innovation? You spoke about the demographic dividend. You spoke about how it is a big opportunity there. But just flesh out the details within the context of energy, sir. Thank you again, Fifi. And I'm really happy that we're very aligned as a panel. I really associate with many of the comments that my fellow panelists have said. And listening to them also just reminds me of how far we have come. I mean, for a long time we did not even have fiber connectivity into the continent. You know, it was only on the on the Western side. And now we're talking about energy and power and devices. We're talking about smartphones. We're talking about 5G. It's really a great conversation. And so again, I want to thank the World Economic Forum just for making this conversation happen. Before I joined the government, I was working at Google and I was the head of Google energy in Africa. And part of the reason that Google was in Africa, initially we were looking at deployment and getting as many people online as possible. And we identified that power was one of the critical, you know, ingredients that was needed to be able to grow the use of the internet. And not just power, but reliable power and affordable power. And so during that time we even put in investments in wind power in Kenya, solar power in South Africa and so on. And that was, you know, in my private sector days. But I would say coming into government has become even more clear that if we do not have power in, you know, in the rural areas, if our citizens don't have access, not only would they be unable to study and have their own micro businesses and all the things that are required, but they'll be left out in this digital transformation. So I would say one of the big investments that our government here in Kenya has done is really to get us over 80% people now connected to the grid moving from about 35% because power is that important. But with that we have seen the growth of use of broadband, the growth of use of technology across the country. And if we had not put that investment, we would not have seen the kind of outsist ability and ability to grow that has been there during this, you know, COVID-19 pandemic period where, you know, people have been sometimes been in lockdowns, they've not been able to travel, and they've been able to leverage and use technology significantly. I would have had to travel maybe to South Africa or somewhere to be able to have this panel discussion, but here we are saving time, saving money, and really the investment in energy is very critical. We look at the new areas of investment in our sector. For instance, Bitcoin mining or cryptocurrency mining, all these are linked to power. But we need to go into areas where we consume as much power in manufacturing and in all the other sectors so that the cost of this power comes down. There's no smartphone right now that does not require to be charged on a regular basis. And the challenge many of our citizens have is because there's no access to power, then they will buy maybe a feature phone that will last them maybe a week or two before they get to a place where there is this power. So we are very keen to see how we can ensure this infrastructure is available. Our young people now have started using mobile phones, their laptops, tablets, working online. They've joined the gig economy. They're earning their money even in the remotest parts of Africa. And here in Kenya, we now have over 1.2 million people working daily in the gig economy, whether it is transcriptions, whether it is translations, or they're simply just watching CCTVs in Europe and in the US and being able to give feedback to people out there. So this technology is enabling our youth to be able to be gainfully employed, get the necessary money they need for the basic needs. At the same time, they're bringing us foreign exchange without leaving the country. So I'm hoping that Kenya will continue with its ambition of being the freelancing headquarters of the world. And we can leverage the continent's youth dividend to be able to service the rest of the world with all the skills that we have. So without power, we will not be able to do that. So thank you very much. All right. Thank you, Minister Crystal. COVID-19 having put pressure on most countries' infrastructure, especially as it pertained to connectivity and all of us needing to work from home at the same time. But how did Rwanda navigate this abrupt transition? And how has it elevated the importance of energy as a critical part of the digital inclusion agenda? Thanks, Fifi. So I mean, I think like the rest of the world, Rwanda definitely experienced tremendous pressure to act very quickly, to adapt to the pandemic and the lockdowns and all of that. Overnight, companies were obviously forced to equip their entire workforce to work remotely. Similarly, schools had to try their best to keep kids learning and equip their teachers and staff with the necessary resources to keep that going. And while some businesses were able to successfully transition, we were definitely faced with a stark reality that everyone doesn't have consistent access to power. And even when they do, they may not be able to afford to consume the amount of power required to have the entire household working from home or all of their children studying from home at the same time. And so I think what the pandemic has done for us and Rwanda, very much like the rest of the world, it's amplified the severity of the consequences that are caused by energy inequity. But I think that the good news is that from a policy perspective, it has demonstrated the urgency with which governments must act to provide access to affordable power, which then lends to affordable connectivity and also affordable devices as the Honorable Minister already alluded to. This is really what we need to move full steam ahead with the digital transformation agenda. And so I think it's really important that we see equitable access to power as an imperative, really, if we are to deliver on the digital transformation agenda. Mr. Husser, just given the unprecedented experience and demand for energy resources over the past 18 months and also going into the future, what are some of the challenges you are seeing on your end? And how is your industry planning to address this? Yes, VP. I cannot agree with you more that the energy is key elements in the digital transformation, low power, low internet, low digital transformation. According to the white paper that we have just launched today, the energy demand in Africa will more than double by 24. And right now more than 50 percent of people in Africa has no access to electricity. From what I have observed, there are two main challenges behind this. One, limited power generation capacity. And second, transmission network reach. There are several causes. For one, Africa's energy structure is not that diversified. Right now, it mostly relies on fossil fuels and hydropower, which are not flexible. And beyond that, traditional centralized grace and long-range transmission network take a long time to find and resource at high. So adapting to huge new demand is a big challenge. And I believe that the top priorities should be to find an efficient, accessible, and affordable way to grow the powers of time. From my perspective, there are three actions that we can take. First, government can encourage investment to diversify power supply. This includes funding from both private and public sectors and from international financial institutions. And second, adopt the solar and wind power, not just because they are better for the environment, but because they are faster to deploy and more accessible than traditional grace. And third, African countries can leverage digital technology to make the most of renewable energies by optimizing power generation, transmission, and users. And by expanding this energy mix to include more solar and wind power, this will help to address short-term supply challenges. It will also lay the foundation for a more sustainable energy supply in the long-term in Africa, which is quite meaningful. Thank you. And a more sustainable earth, obviously, as a result of the less harm that renewables provide to the environment. Natalie, just your view on the technical expertise that will be required to support the energy transition just from the prism, perhaps of the use and women in innovation in a digital transformation? I think it goes without saying that energy efficiencies will be required due to the digital geek economy going forward. Ministers already fluently and eloquently stated the use of power in powering up these working tools that are highly digital. And I think so better battery access for digital devices and infrastructure will be required as it will actually bring down as well the cost of energy. But I think another solution is how Africa can leverage and lead the world away off the grid. Fundamentally, it goes without saying as a hopefully future area that investments and particularly financiers can look into as we re-transform homes, as we re-transform infrastructure and the power bases that are running this. But maybe with regards to the youth, I think what is really important about the digital opportunities that I will present, especially with COVID, is the opportunity for the youth more tech-saving, for the digital natives to be able to leapfrog on this to further transform and to create innovative solutions that can actually drive particularly our continent into the future. But maybe perhaps even more astronomical for women who've traditionally always went from the home. And COVID has been so validating for women. When we look at that in Coor-Harrison to men, women can live from the front because they've always been leading from the front at home. Women have largely been the multitaskers in the home looking after the children and making sure that everyone sorted out. COVID provides that once opportunity for women to actually accelerate new skills and setting up businesses where this becomes fundamentally normal. And I think it is a new horizon, especially for the female gender. I know at least a lot of my male colleagues have been trying to figure out how you can work with children in the background, how you can teach children and still multitask around over a lot of other many things that women have been doing this for the longest time. I think the reason agenda, no pun intended, that is further preferred for digitization as women live nations, private sector, entrepreneurship, and innovation from the home front. I'm wondering if a relook at the compensation structures needs to take place as a result of all the multitasking that women are doing, both at home and in the workplace. But we have eight minutes left for this discussion, and I'd like to get some concluding remarks from the panel. Could I ask that we keep our concluding statements to two minutes each just in the interest of time. Minister Joseph, just your key takeaways that you'd like to leave us with, and perhaps speaking more closely to that collaboration you mentioned within the context of the Africa free trade area deal here on the continent. If you thank you very much. I would say there are two things that are important. As we go into the technology space, we must be able to work together. And this is particularly when you look at some of the key challenges like cybersecurity, which affect us, fake news, and so on. These are key areas that without collaboration, we cannot be able to deal with those, whether it is people trying to hack espionage and so on. But I believe that we are poised as a continent now to be able to also innovate and start exporting technology to the rest of the world. We're exporting labor in terms of our young people so that they can be able to earn a living, but also contribute to the global digital economy. And I believe, as Africa, we have the opportunity and the time is now to fully take advantage with all the partnerships, whether it is in the technology companies that we're working with or governments and private sector, academia. And I believe that is the way we can live from and move forward. And I'll just finish by saying that I believe Africa should also get into the mining of all these cryptos and all these cutting edge technologies, artificial intelligence, ensuring that our languages don't disappear, where we'll only speak the theory language as opposed to our own languages. And I think those opportunities will come from our young people. Thank you, Fifi. Thank you, Minister. And Ken, just a follow on from that. I imagine that venturing into those new industries and ways of doing things will require a whole lot more digital skills that you already cited as being in lack on the continent. Your final remarks and also how digital skilling in Africa can be improved? Oh, yes. This is a very important question. From my understanding, the digital skill is equally important as the digital infrastructure and the energy supply across Africa. I just want to show you a couple of figures. By 2030, more than 230 million jobs in Africa will require digital skills. As I mentioned just now, more than half of people don't have a small not to mention basic digital skills. Professional speaking, right now, only 2% of the labor force has high key skills. That's a huge gap. And we need to take joint immediate action to deal with those gaps. The private and public partnership and the contribution from the industries are all needed. And I believe that wasted joint action, if we can work together, I'm sure that we can lay a strong foundation for Africa's digital future, including the strong foundation for digital infrastructure, digital skills and strong energy supply. Thank you, sir. Crystal, final thoughts from you in two minutes, your key takeaways. And also, if there were one or two issues that you'd like to bring to the attention of governments to help scale digitization, what would they be? Let me just focus on emphasizing the importance of data as a strategic asset and really making sure that the audience, particularly governments, sees this as a priority. So if we really want to fully harness the benefits of the digital transformation agenda as a continent, we need a coordinated data strategy. We need an interoperable data regulation environment. And we also need harmonized data sharing frameworks. And so, you know, I would just like to invite policymakers, private sector leaders, the young innovators we have with us, researchers to connect with the center as we aim to shape Africa's data governance landscape, starting with Rwanda to be more inclusive, more progressive, and more secure, you know, so we can all accelerate our collective ambitions towards becoming a technology driven economy. Thank you. Thank you. Natalie, final thoughts from you, perhaps also in the same vein you can share, one or two takeaways that some of your colleagues in the private sector can work on to scale us up. Fantastic. Maybe with huge focus on the private sector is how technological capabilities become a fundamental bedrock on the economic development of Africa. And I think the real focus on the Africa free trade continental agreement is how we can drive synergies across the continent. I think data has already been mentioned, unique identification on how we can cross-pollinate access to trade and commerce across the region, but also investment into education and awareness. I think Mr. Wu pointed on the importance of skills and how governments can actually also further stem education, particularly not just the traditional education, but leveraging on the demographic opportunity that the minister pointed on, which is in our, in the youth vouch that Africa is sitting with. And then I think goes without saying how private sector can really drive an ecosystem driven approach across all the value chains by investing in technological capabilities that drive, not just return to equity for investors, but shared social equity as well so that we're all winning as one. Thanks very much indeed. And thank you. Thank you to you all for your insights. I think that's a wonderful ideas on the table. It seems like in general, everyone knows what needs to be done to really scale up the level of digital transformation on the continent. But what did feature quite prominently, and what all of you have said this morning is the importance of a collaboration and strengthening the ties in moving forward together. That is certainly something that will be important even at the African Union level for it to even achieve its goal, its target of creating a single digital market by 2030. I look forward to watching the development unfold as a practitioner in the media because the failure to act and act now as the minister, Minister Joseph Harris said, only risks economic isolation for the continent and stagnation. But I'll leave it there. And thank you once more for your valuable time and for your valuable insights. And also thanking the audience who has been listening to this conversation that has been streamed. Thank you for giving us your morning as well.