 All right. Good morning. Good morning to everybody. Good morning to all my students here and online as well as all of those who joined on the e-learning portal. All right. Just to remind all the students, online students, that the assignment is due today. I know nine people have submitted, but there are six more to submit. Today's your last day, so all those of you who have not submitted, submitted. Okay. Please do submit. All right. Okay. So let's have a quick recap about what we did last week. Who's the brave one who wants to start? Are you not able to see my screen yet? Are you able to see the screen? Yeah. Now you're able to say that. Okay. All right. So what did we focus on last week? It's not fair because my online, my in-person students are here. Only they get to speak. I'd like some of the online students to speak. Sorry. Say that again. Stages. Okay. So we looked at the stages. So which stage did we look at last week? These stages are there. Very good. So what did we look at last week? The first stage, which is exploration. Okay. So understanding and action. And so we said we'll do the second and the third stage today, but quickly to do a quick recap. So we said that there are three stages. Okay. In stage one, we divided into two. One is the assessment and the problem identification. Right. So for the assessment, you focus on 10 basic areas. Right. We spoke about that. All right. Again, remember that it's not a hard and fast rule that you have to do assessment first and then go into identification. It can all be done together. Okay. Then we spoke about, okay, we spoke about a case. We'll come back to this case just to refresh our memories. Okay. Dennis's case will come back to it. But we, when someone comes to us, the first thing that we need to do is to identify the problem. And you identify the problem first and foremost as they're talking about the problem, it is to clarify the feelings. So, yeah, so you're acknowledging the feelings of the person. As you're doing that, you're also looking at what is the problem behavior. In Dennis's case, the problem behavior was alcohol. Alcohol not being able to go to college, getting into problems with the teachers, with the professors. Right. So we found, we looked at the feelings and generally his feelings were disappointment, was anger. We see the problem behavior was alcohol and his ability to deal with the, with the, with those in college. Once we did that, what else would we identify? What are the wrong beliefs that he was holding? Right. And what were some of the wrong beliefs that we said that alcohol would help him get over that disappointment or that it was one way of getting back to his father. Right. So we, as an example, we saw that. So to identify his wrong beliefs, why is it important to identify the wrong beliefs? Excellent. Very good. Good. Yeah. So we remember we did the ABCDE model. So for us, it's important for us to understand the beliefs or the wrong ideas so that you can help him dispute it. In your ABCDE model, the D, you can help him dispute that belief or the thoughts that he may be having. Okay. Then is in problem identification, help him personalize the problem. What's personalized the problem? He takes responsibility for his problem. Right now we hear what was he doing? He was blaming his father. So in a way to help him come to identify that the problem is his own, that his contribution is part of it. So how he is a part of that problem. So that's what we, that's the next thing we looked at. The next is how do we personalize the problem and the goal together? So the problem is that he's turning into alcohol and the goal is to be able to get out of it or pursue a certain dream. So this was what we dealt with last week. Any thoughts, any questions before we get to the next one? Any thoughts? Yes. Yes, Francis. So it really depends, like for example, when, again, remember I said it's not a suggestion you are making, but let's say he says that he wants to be able to talk to his father. Maybe that's something that he's come up with. So there are two things you can do. So if you can help him to do it on his own, right? So you may get into a conversation of how he's going to do it and that's what you will look at action. The third part is action, right? So you may come to a place of empowering him to do that, right? If he feels he's able. If he feels he's not able, he may say, I'm not confident about it. I'd like to bring him here. So he may suggest and say that he'd like to bring his father here. So then you help him to bring his father here, maybe discuss and talk about the issue so that he'll bring his father here. So there is no set way. It really depends on what the person, the councillor would like to do. So he may say I want to talk to my father or he may say I don't want to talk to my father. I want to deal it first on my own or he may say that I can't talk to him. I'd like him to come here so all of us can talk together in your presence. So any of that is possible. In this case, we feel like he's like, he's cooperating with the councillor. But sometimes it's like the person is going through a situation. But the person thinking this is not a problem, but somebody put it in your councillor, you do work, you go for counselling. So he's not willing, you're saying? Okay. So one of the things is the person who's coming for counselling should be willing to sit in front of the councillor. Otherwise, you may come on force of somebody maybe for the first time and then never land up. So that's why you can't force someone to take support and help. You can suggest, you can recommend, but it has to come from the person's willingness. Yeah. That's the idea, right? So that depends on how all of your skills, not just the way that you counsel, even the way that you build a wrapper with them really matters. Like for example, and we are going to be looking at that a little later. And so we can do some of those role plays for you to understand how that happens. But just to give you a quick brief, if there's someone who's coming and is being forced by a parent or someone. So one of the questions I would ask him is, I know how uncomfortable it can be when you're pushed to get counselling or help, isn't it? So what does the counsellor see? That I understand what you're going through, right? Yeah. And so I said, yeah, maybe even I wouldn't be very happy being pushed like that, isn't it? So what have I done? I'm immediately building a wrapper from my understanding, right? But I'm not advising him and saying, your father is very upset with you and you should take counselling otherwise. I've lost him then and there. So it is through your skills that you help them want to come back. And we will look at that in detail later. Any other questions? Anything else from the online students? So we'll move into stage two, which is understanding. Okay. Now, if you're following through on your notes, we are at page 26. Okay. 26. So the first thing that you would want to do. So what are some of the goals that in your, you know, in your assessment you have figured out what are some of the goals? What do you think in Dennis's, or you want to go back to Dennis's case once again? So we can have a quick, I'll just read Dennis's case once more. Okay. Dennis is a 19 year old doing his second year of engineering. He was recently found drinking alcohol on college grounds. When confronted about it by a professor, he became extremely argumentative and aggressive and was suspended as a result. Dennis has a history of getting into trouble at college for missing classes, failing to complete assignments and general rudeness to professors. A number of professors have reported being concerned about David's health and well-being and have stated that they were sure that they had smelt alcohol on his breath on several different occasions. They also have noticed a deterioration in his college work as well as his general demeanor. Dennis was referred to a counselor for his drinking and behavior problem. He has admitted that he has been drinking quite a lot and sometimes by himself to get away from things. A number of, sorry, life areas reveal that Dennis had difficulty in coping with the academics. His father's expectations of him fulfilling his dreams of becoming an engineer. He resented his father for this because he secretly desired to be part of a rock band. David was forced to join an engineering college. He was unable to apply his mind to studies. Alcohol became his escape reality. However, Dennis doesn't see that there is a problem with his drinking and believes that the professors should mind their own business. We've come to the place of where Dennis has discussed what he's feeling what his beliefs are and what the goal is. When you look at the next phase, it is you are going to set certain goals. For example, when you're faced with any kind of a problem, what is the first thing that you need to do to solve the problem? Which is what we did. We identified the problem. After that, after you identify the problem, that comes all under exploration. When it comes to understanding what the first thing that you're doing is you have to keep certain goals. For example, like last time Francis said, my problem is that I am distracted. He said the problem is a distraction. What is the goal? To be focused. That becomes the goal. The goal is usually opposite of the problem. When a counselor comes to you, the opposite of this problem will be your goal. What would be some of the goals that from what you heard or what you understood from the first class, from the exploration, what are some of the goals? The goal is to probably find another mechanism to cope rather than alcohol. That is alcohol. Which are the behaviors? He has an alternate desire or an alternate goal. That can be a goal. What else? Belief system? What does he believe? That his father is probably like a revenge for his father. Is that a goal? To help him change that belief? Is that a goal? Because you may be able to get him to rehabilitation or get him to sit in class, but if his thoughts do not change, you're not sustaining it for too long. What could be any other goal? We said a rock band thing is a goal for him. That may be a goal. Remember that the goals are generally what you work alongside with the counselor and formulate. It's not your goals. You may have 10 goals, but he may not be willing to use those goals. What you're doing is coming him to a place to make useful goals that will help transformation, that will help change. Your goals are also one of the goals that we did see when we looked at the first chapter, understanding human needs. What did we say are the most crucial needs of a person? Secure, significant and value. Self-esteem, security and significance. We find that his sense of value or his sense of significance has been moved to something else. What is it? Alcohol at this point of time. To question that, that also is a goal. To help him see that his value doesn't come from maybe a profession or value doesn't come from what his father expects of him but there is inherent value. These are maybe more deeper things that may remain as a goal. The first thing that you would need to do is to help your counseling change the problem-causing beliefs. What are the problem-causing beliefs? The example given here, alcohol cannot take away my pain or following a dream alone will not make me fulfill significant worthwhile. These may be certain beliefs he is holding. That when my identity comes from me being a rock star or alcohol is the one that will take away my pain. That has become his belief system. What is the first goal that you have is to help them alter that belief system? Getting them to a place to change the belief system so that they are in line with truth. That alcohol cannot take away my pain and that is true. Alcohol cannot take pain but he needs to deal with the pain or the emotion that he is experiencing. That becomes the first goal as you are doing that. How do you do that? Remember the ABCD model. What do you first do? Say that again. That is later. You identified the beliefs in the last one. What you are doing is once you identify the belief the next thing that you will do is to help him dispute it. Help him dispute that belief. Here, how do you change wrong beliefs? First of all, identify, re-identify or bring it back again. That wrong belief and then you dispute the wrong belief and then replace it with a true belief. That is what you are doing. It will be the biggest goal that you have. The first goal is to change the thoughts because the thoughts is what creates your emotions. Remember we learnt that in a situation your thoughts creates your emotions. Your emotions make your behavior. The first thing that you will do is to change those wrong beliefs. First is identify the belief, dispute the belief and replace it with a true belief. Do you have a question? We know that it is not that we should treat it, but we should be questioning it and making them to come to the place of it. When replacing it with a true belief we can't identify it. This is the right belief. This is your wrong thing and this is the right thing. We can't say it like that. But what if again from wrong belief they went to another wrong belief? That is where you continue to bring it like a question. Till they come to a place of understanding. That may not happen in 10 minutes. Sometimes it takes 3-4 sessions until they come to that place. That is what your questioning does. It helps them to think about their own beliefs. Simple questions like from your situation I see that you feel alcohol will make you get rid of your pain or your disappointment. What do you think about that? Or how long do you think that is going to help you? That is how you get them to think. Or you can think about how long do you think that is going to help you? That is how you get them to think. Or you can think about how long do you think that is going to help you? Or you can ask something like if alcohol no more could take away your pain and your belief what else would you do to help you deal with that pain? And then they are thinking. Maybe I should talk to somebody or I should actually talk to my father about it. You got a goal there. Yeah. Then once we have done that what do we do so you have thought you have helped them with the thoughts. Next what you are doing is you are helping them handle those emotions. Those emotions of pain, disappointment, anger, fear all of that you are helping them understand those emotions. So when you help people with emotions often we are all taught to suppress our emotions. What do we ask to do? Don't get angry. Don't cry. Don't complain. Don't, you know, don't cry. That is what we are told to do. Or our upbringing comes like that or even our culture comes like that. But in the depth of every problem is a deep seated emotional component. You think of your own lives. When you have a problem there is a deep emotion there, right? If that emotion wasn't so strong when it doesn't become a problem you can actually think about it and deal with it, isn't it? Like for example so let's say a problem like I can only think of problems with children. So let's say the problem with the child is maybe your child hasn't done well in school. If you are not very emotional about it what is it you will logically think you will say, okay, my child needs help maybe I should get infotution or change the subject, something. So you have a very logical understanding, right? If you have thought about it or you can come with a solution. But let's say that your child misbehaved in class and you get very angry. Do you think the solution comes as easy? It may not because there is so much of emotions that are behind the problem. So unless and until we deal with that emotion we may not be able to come to a place of solving a problem. Get that? What happened? Explain it again. So I am saying when an emotion is related to a problem and usually, so the example that I gave you are very upset about your child misbehaving. So when you are angry or when you are sad, a solution doesn't come out as easy. Why? Because your emotions are clouding your mind, right? It overtakes your logic. So you have to help somebody with their emotions first before you can actually help them come with a solution. Alright? The child is not bothered about the emotions. The child is not bothered about the emotions. Then the logic won't work for you. Correct. When the other person is not bothered about the emotions he can find out the solution for that. Correct. The problem is if the emotions are colouring your mind solving doesn't happen very easily. Alright? It doesn't happen very easily. That's why people who are extremely anxious with anxiety, even small things becomes a huge thing for them that they can't do anything because the anxiety is so much that something like even something that can be done very easily for someone who doesn't have anxiety they can't do. Why? Because the emotion has clouded their minds. Right? So the first and foremost thing is to help them with the emotion. To get them to identify and understand their emotion. Yes? Still something they claim. In this example we saw that Cheil, that he knows that he should not be working on the Cheil period exam. Obviously he will feel sad but still he had a solution even though he has some emotions attached to those experiences. So that's what it really matters from person to person. Now I may be very worried about my child getting bad marks. You may not be. You may not be. But that means I have to first and foremost deal with my emotion. Maybe you can think maybe you're sad or maybe you're upset but then you can do it quicker. Because in every problem that a person comes we cannot sideline an emotion. You have to deal with the emotion help them to deal with the emotion. That's why when Dennis comes to you if you're not going into the deeper level of the emotion you're not going to be effective because you will finally say Dennis you go for rehabilitation you don't become rock band get into classes without the roots of it. Right. Because now you identified the deeper truth you know how angry or how sad or how upset he is because you've identified it. So every problem that comes to you you have to go to that level of emotion. Remember we said the five levels of functioning physical emotional rational volitional spiritual. So this emotional part of it can see we're very complex beings. Our emotions don't work in isolation it always has a contribution from some area of your life isn't it? Like for example if you don't sleep well you will die but the next morning are you going to be very nice or you don't eat. Will you be angry? Hungry will cause you angry. Right. So your physical affects your emotions or you had a fight with someone at home does it affect your emotions? Yeah. Right. Or what are the other things how you think. Right. You have a test today and you think I'm going to fail I'm going to fail I'm going to fail I'm going to fail. Is it going to make you fearful while you're right. See so you see your emotions never are in isolation it doesn't function on its own. It has these contributions so that's exactly what we're saying here helping them deal with those emotions because the fact that the very fact that he's drinking alcohol in itself causes a person to be very angry or even depressed. Right. He's not having a very good relationship with his father too many expectations. It causes emotions. There are problems in his environment in college. Nobody likes him or the professors don't like him. Right. It causes his dreams are not being fulfilled. It causes an emotion. Maybe his work with God is very very far away. He doesn't even know who God is. It affects your emotions. So you see that. So emotions are important to handle and so that's what you would do to help them handle and deal with their negative emotions not just now but also in the future. So not just in this situation but in the future. How do we do that? And I think this is a lesson for all of us. Right. The first and foremost thing is to label your emotion. Ask yourself what am I feeling. What am I feeling right now when I have this problem. Right. And that's what you would do with the council. You know how do you how are you feeling what are you going through at this point if you're not able to gauge and that's why we that's why responding to feelings is very important. You know I understand that you are very angry with your father. Right. So he's saying yes I am. So you get to know okay there is anger. So face and label the emotion. Help the person to say I see that you're angry. It makes you really angry. So he's saying yes I am angry. So you see that he's actually facing it. He's labeling his anger. Okay. Then you discover how why did that anger come about. What is the source of the anger. Or what is the trigger of the anger. So he may say I'm really angry because my father has never has high expectations of me. He never has heard what I want. He only wants things and I have to follow. So I'm really angry and I want to take revenge. So you have the source of the anger and then help him express it. It is important to express that anger. Right. So that you give them a free expression of their emotions. Alright. Now when they're expressing their anger it can make us feel uncomfortable. How many of us feel uncomfortable when somebody cries. All of us feel know in some way just say finish fast. You know can I bring you coffee and go I eat an ice cream. Right. But to help express emotions. So they may cry. They may weep. They may get angry. They may bang their heads, their hands whatever but help them express their emotions. That's one goal that's extremely important to get people to do. Okay. Yeah. They're banging their head like that. Okay. So. Okay. Tell me how. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. They may not cut in front of you that they won't do. They won't cut in front of you and watch. So. Okay. So, suppose someone is banging their head in front of you. What will you do? Prince. What will you say? They're not talking. I can help you. Okay. Okay. As a counsellor you may not be able to do that. Okay. Okay. So, some things that I've found helpful is especially when they are I mean I've never had an experience when they are you know so no never that way. Maybe they will they are insistently crying. That's all the experience. I've never had anyone who's been extremely aggressive but in case they are one of the things that you can do is no. Don't ask a question. No. No. That's not right. So, when someone is expressing an emotion you want to be understanding. So, yes, you could say something like you know I know how distressing this is for you and I can see it. Right. And if you want them to stop you may I hold your hand you know if it is a if it's the same gender you can hold your hand or you can offer would you just like to just you know be calm for some time. Can I get you some water? Can I would you like would you how would you like me to help you? Right. Just ask if you don't know what to do ask. Right. So, it is let them finish that emotion. Allow them to finish it. Don't start questioning and will this help you. That's not the time to do that. Give them that space to emote because nobody gives people space to actually emote. You know that? Nobody does. To let go of that frustration, that anger. Right. So, allow them to complete whatever they are expressing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, again, you know, when you bring examples like this, there can be very many reasons why someone does that. One can be an emotional response. Secondly, it could be it could be a different difficult behavior, especially when you come to children and all of that. There can be manipulative behavior. Or they can be it's called dissociative behavior. There are different kinds of behaviors that people may exhibit at that point of time, you know, depending on the situation. So, the first and foremost thing that you need to ensure, especially someone's hitting their head is to make sure that they don't hurt themselves. Right. Because if they hurt themselves, that's going to be difficult. So, doing the best that you can to calm that. So, in case that doesn't happen, like we said, we may need to hold or, you know, get support to move them away from that situation, like especially when when people get too aggressive, right, you may need to set it set them apart, like on the road you've seen and people get into fistfights, you can't talk them and say calm down, none of that. You may have to pull them away from the situation, right, for them to actually kind of calm down. So, it depends on each situation. So, if you have a client like that who is so aggressive and, you know, hitting head and bleeding and all that, you may need to bring, move them out of that place and, you know, soothe them, bring them and say, okay, you know, yeah, it's okay. Come down. I'm here with you. We'll, you know, relax. We can talk about it. Just calm down first, you know. So, you may need to do some of those strategies. So, one size doesn't fit all. We'll have to try different things. Okay. All right. Okay. So, once we have helped them handle, so first we said beliefs, second we said is emotions. Then what you're going to do is to help them to make changes in the different areas of their lives. So, you are getting them to make changes in what all areas in their, maybe in their physical area, in their emotional, which is what we did earlier in their thinking, in their volitional and in their spiritual. So, what are you, what are you doing? You're helping them make that change that reflects their new understanding. Okay. So, what you're doing is, let's say, maybe in the physical part of it, you're encouraging them to take care of their body because with alcohol what's happening here? There's a lot of damage that's happening to the body. So, you're, the goal is to help them to change maybe physical patterns of their drinking. Okay. So, that's the one area. The second is emotion, which we spoke about. Rational we again spoke about the thoughts. Third is volitional, that to help them know that they are the ones who make the choice of how they want to change their lives. Like, so Dennis makes the choice of how he can change his life. And last one is spiritual, where you bring them to that awareness of their security, their self-worth and their significance. So, this, what you're doing is what we spoke about earlier. You are getting them to reflect on how their new understanding will affect their physical, their emotional, their rational, their volitional and spiritual. Right. So, these are all conversations that you will have through this process. It's all about goal-setting. Goal-setting is you are figuring out what are the areas that need to be changed. Alright. So, we've said about your emotions, your thoughts, the physical area, the choice one makes and the deeper needs. Alright. Once this is done is when you move into the next stage, which is the stage of action. Alright. Now, remember that it doesn't go like I said, you know, it doesn't it's not watertight compartments. You finish exploration, then understanding then action. Maybe the first goal is just to change his thoughts. Alright. So, maybe that's the only goal that he has probably. So, then you get into action on that first and foremost. Right. So, then you plan you work with him as to how is he going to change his thoughts? What is he going to do to change his thoughts? Or it may be to deal with his alcohol. He says, no, I want to deal with my alcohol. I want to change this. So, maybe it is finding out rehabilitation. So, you get into that action and then you come back. Once that is done, you come back and deal with the other thing. So, it's not that okay in goal-setting, everything you discuss all the five areas and then in action you go do all the five. It doesn't happen like that. So, it may be one by one. Okay. Now, in the action, the first thing that you are doing is you are going to start the intervention. You're going to begin that process of intervention. So, if there is an intervention, you have to identify what are the steps to reach the goal? So, he says, I want to get rid of my alcohol. So, what are the specific steps that you need to do to get rid of alcohol? Alright. So, when you're doing that, when you are dealing with goals, have you do you know smart goals? Have you already smart goals? What is on the what is on the slide? They're called smart goals. Okay. Smart goals are the way that you retain something. So, your goals always need to be specific. So, what is the specific goal here? I want to get rid of alcohol. It's a specific goal. It's a measurable goal, which means after some time, I will know whether I have left alcohol or no. You can measure it. Okay. Correct. Yeah. Achievable. It's something that you should be able to achieve. It shouldn't be so large that it is unable to achieve. Like he's saying, okay, from tomorrow, I'm going to become a rock star. It's not achievable right now. Okay. R is realistic goals. So, what is the first step to get rid of alcohol? Maybe maybe call a few rehabilitation centers or go to a doctor first. That's the first realistic goal. And T is time bound. There should be a certain time for the goal. When would you like to see that goal achieved? Okay. So, that's what we call as smart goals. So, when you're formulating a goal, it should be specific. It should be measurable. It should be achievable. It should be realistic and it should be time bound. Okay. So, once you identify, you take appropriate steps. Now, as an example, okay. So, what are the steps that Dennis is taking is to join. So, his goal is to stop drinking. Okay. His goal is to stop drinking. So, what are the steps? He will join a rehabilitation program. Right. He will join a group. A is called alcohol anonymous where, you know, people who have a problem with alcohol meet together in a group to get support. So, what group would he join? All right. How will he handle stress? That's the next step. Why? Because sometimes when stress comes is when he may be drinking. So, you have to handle that. Right. Or in rather than going to drink, what can he be involved in? Maybe it's a sport. So, what hobbies or joining a sports club or how does he want to spend weekends? Right. So, these are all steps towards stopping to drink. You get that? So, these again. So, when he says I want to stop drinking. So, the question that I may ask is okay. So, if there were the first two steps you could make to stop drinking, what would be the initial few steps? So, then he may come up with some of this. I mean, we just, I've just kind of put it up just to give you an idea about what are the steps that can be that can, that you can do forward. Okay. All right. Clear. Okay. Now, the next goal will be to, let's say it is to change his thought. Maybe that's the second goal he had to change my thought. So, how would he do that? So, first and foremost, it may be helping him to write the negative thoughts down. Whenever you're having these thoughts, write it down. And what can we replace it with? Maybe replace it with the truth of God's word or replace it with not with a lie, but with some truth. Like, for example, let's say he's not a believer. All right. And he says I'm not good for anything. So, is that a wrong belief? Yes. What is the belief that, you know, and that's something you can ask him. What would you like to change it with? When you know that this belief is not helping you, how do you want to change the belief? What do you want to say? So, he may say, I want to believe that I have some capability. I have some ability. Right. It may be just truth that you can help them. So, that is the second goal, you know, to change the, to change your thought. Okay. All right. I'll go on the next two, after in the next class, because I think we just have around three, four minutes. Okay. Any questions? Yes. Francis. Ah. Well, we have a question now. We can answer it. But I, if the person is mentally constable and in the day, he can do, do, do. But this guy who is having alcohol, he, I want to stop this alcohol. That is like, what he said. He wanted to stop the alcohol. Okay. He went and drank again. Yeah. Because he went to the counsellor and counsellor said, like, he can do like this. But he's not able to do that. That's okay. That's all right. So, see, overcoming a problem is a process. Right. Overcome any problem is a process. Like we spoke about something last week, no? Did it change fully? So, it's a process. Right. So, we need to, we continue to make that conversation. So, maybe if I were to have a session with you, I would ask you what worked last week, what didn't work? Right. Why didn't the strategy you said something, you said a suite and you know, have somebody poke you or something that you said. Right. Why didn't that work? What happened? Those strategies didn't work. No, they didn't work because it's okay. So, let's develop some new strategy. So, it's a process. So, all because some, your counsellor doesn't do or doesn't come with, you're not a failure. Remember, that's their struggle and you are working with them to overcome that. But the problem happens when you think, I am responsible for Francis to focus. I'm not responsible for you to focus. I am here to help you. Right. And to show you that even when you have a relapse, relapse is when someone goes back to alcohol or a drug, that it's okay that I'm here to accept you and work through it. Right. So, you shouldn't as a counsellor of any time feel that you are responsible for your counsellor becoming well. You're not. Right. You are only a facilitator. You're only someone who's showing the way. Got that? All right. So, don't feel that you're that person ranked. That means I'm also useless. That's a, that's a terrible thing. I mean, you know, you're there to help. So, when they are not able to think, you can't also say, I can't do anything. Please go find another counsellor. No, you work with them because there is something that hasn't worked and you found out what hasn't worked. In fact, it's a positive thing that your sweets didn't work and someone pushing you and didn't work. It's a good thing. It doesn't work. Right. What else can we figure out? What else can we find out? Okay. All right. Okay. Let's take a break for ten minutes and then we'll come back.