 The next item of business is a member's business debate on motion 3731 in the name of Fulton MacGregor on apprenticeship week. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. Can I ask those members who wish to speak in the debate to press the request to speak buttons now? I call on Fulton MacGregor to open the debate. Mr MacGregor, seven minutes please. I thank all members who supported the motion and those who have stayed to take part today. I can also welcome Skills Development Scotland to the public gallery for today's debate. Apprentice week is next week, and all members will have been invited to a local organisation involved with Skills Development Scotland. I am looking forward personally to visiting the Simon community Scotland in Coatbridge, a fantastic organisation that I have had some involvement with before, who are working to eradicate homelessness. I encourage any member who has not already arranged a visit to get in touch with Skills Development Scotland and to get involved. Everyone is in agreement that apprenticeships are a vital part of supporting your young people into work, and the extra investment that has focused over the past decade has transformed apprenticeships across the board. Countries with well-developed vocational learning systems and significant employer engagement have the lowest levels of youth unemployment, so that we are heading in the right direction by investing in modern apprenticeships. It is also good that we are providing more opportunities for young people who feel that college or university is not for them. While it is welcome that more apprenticeships are available, I think that focus must now be put on ensuring that more young people from their BEM communities are also encouraged to sign up. As colleagues may be aware, I am the convener of the cross-party group on racial equality, and at our most recent meeting there was a lot of discussion among members about the lack of access to apprenticeships for black and ethnic minority young people. Apprenticeships are a vital part of building a stronger Scotland, ensuring that we have a talented, multi-skilled workforce that will help to build our economy. It is in all of our interest to ensure that those modern apprenticeships are easily and equally accessible to all of Scotland's young people. At the moment, BEM people in our society face many challenges in attaining modern apprenticeships. The coalition of racial equality and rights carried out research into this area that shows that young BEM people are six times less likely to undertake a modern apprenticeship compared to young white people. That expands to nine times less likely when looking specifically at Asian and African Caribbean and black young people. I am delighted that Skills Development Scotland have therefore launched an action plan to encourage more BEM young people into modern apprenticeships. The plan proposes to expand the range of career opportunities and increase the number of modern apprenticeships available to BEM people. To achieve that, Scotland must improve the capacity within employer networks to embrace positive action and recruitment practices. There must be an effort to increase engagement with the female BEM community, involving more young BEM women in apprenticeships. Trading providers must be able to identify good practice and be better prepared to recruit and support BEM young people on SDS programmes. The quality action plan ensures the number of individuals from minority ethnic backgrounds who are apprentices will increase equal to the population shared by 2021. I believe that this action plan will show BEM young people in building successful futures and will contribute to the businesses across Scotland. Another area in which there must be more done is ensuring access to apprenticeships for young people who have been in care. Of course, that links in well with the Government's review of the looked-after and accommodated system. When I met with Skills Development Scotland last week, I was very pleased to hear that the committee to ensuring support is in place to help care leavers into modern apprenticeships. That includes, for example, by extending the age limit for care leavers to 29. The theme of the awareness week is that apprenticeships are changing and aims to highlight the work that is being done to adapt apprenticeships to modern times. I was interested to learn a little about the new foundation apprenticeships and graduate apprenticeships being introduced. Foundation apprenticeships I find to be a very exciting prospect, as it engages young people while they are still at school and allows them to pick up valuable experience before the time comes when they need to find a job. We all know young people whether they have gone to university or not, struggled to get into work due to a lack of experience. I think that that sets out to avoid that and at the end of the two-year programme will leave the young apprentice with a qualification that is the equivalent of a hire. I believe that some universities are now beginning to routinely accept those foundation apprenticeships as part of their entry criteria, and I encourage more to get on board with that. Foundation apprenticeships are now available in every local authority area in Scotland, including, I am pleased to say, new college, Lamontshire, Coatbridge campus in my constituency, and it is hoped that by 2019 there will be 1,500 young people going through a foundation apprenticeship. Overall, 37,000 young people are going through an apprenticeship in Scotland at foundation, not done or graduate level. It is important that we continue to recognise those who excel during those apprenticeships. I wanted to briefly mention Daniel Barr from Coatbridge, who was recently awarded adult apprentice of the year for his fantastic work as a plasterer, and I wanted to put on record my congratulations to him. As we are all aware, a new apprenticeship levy is being introduced in a large employer from next month, and I was pleased that, after full consultation, the minister made key commitments, including increasing the planned number of graduate apprenticeships in 2017, considering raising the age limits for modern apprenticeships and a commitment to 30,000 new modern apprentices each year by 2020. The aim of the apprenticeship week is to raise awareness and encourage more employers in Scotland to recruit apprentices. I am grateful to have had the opportunity to bring the subject to the chamber today. Briefly, if you would not mind before I finish, I would like to put on record here in the chamber today that it is my son's third birthday today, and I want to wish him what is popular record. He is not having an apprenticeship scheme. He is not old enough yet, but I would like to do the honour of saying happy birthday in the chamber here. I will forgive you. I call Dean Lockhart, please, to be followed by Graeme Dey, Mr Lockhart. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would also wish a very happy birthday to Fulton MacGregor's son. I congratulate Fulton MacGregor on bringing this important debate to the chamber. The debate this afternoon is an opportunity to promote Scottish apprenticeship week, which takes place next week and to celebrate the success of Scotland's apprentices. As the motion suggests, it would indeed be a good show of support if members could take time to visit an apprentice, an apprenticeship employer or training provider in their constituency or region. On my part, this will include meeting up with my nephew, who is currently in an apprenticeship training programme to become an electrician. This is something he very much enjoys at Sparky. I also congratulate Skills Development Scotland on its continued work to deliver Scotland's apprenticeship programmes and also applaud the network of local authorities, third sector providers and colleges, who work to support the many thousands of apprenticeships across the country. This coming week provides an opportunity to celebrate the achievements of all involved in delivering the programmes. It also provides a chance to reflect on how the changing nature of apprenticeships and how we in Scotland can assure that we create a modern apprenticeship programme that is fit for employers and employees and takes into account the changing nature of employment going forward. Apprenticeships to increase are featured in all parties' manifestos at the election last year. That illustrates the cross-party support for the benefits that apprenticeships and work-based learning can bring to employers and businesses. There are differences in the policies of different parties as to how to deliver an increasing number of apprenticeships, but there is consensus about the priority of the objective. Apprenticeships are in effective way to support young people and other people of many different ages into the workplace and to develop careers that go on to meet future economic needs and to address the skills gap. In addition, at a time of fast-moving change in the economy and changing skills required, apprenticeships can provide the tools for lifelong learning and for adaptability to changing employment markets as well as changing technology. As the World Economic Forum highlighted, for children currently at school, some 60 per cent of the future jobs that they will have do not currently exist. Having that ability for long-life learning and training will be essential for the economy. In my own region of Stirling, Skills Development Scotland has provided data that shows that in 2016 there were 581 apprentices currently in training, with 291 modern apprenticeships starting last year, all of which is to be welcomed. In the Stirling area, construction is the most popular modern apprenticeship framework, representing 20 per cent of the uptake. However, computing and IT modern apprenticeship represents only 6 per cent of all modern apprenticeships in the Stirling area, and that may result in a longer-term shortage of skills in that particular area. That would be an area worth further investigation given cross-party support for increasing skills in that important area. There are also well-documented imbalances between genders in certain sectors, with the uptake in the construction industry in Stirling, for example, being heavily gender-segregated, with 99 per cent of apprenticeships being undertaken by men. There is also a demand for apprenticeships for older workers, which currently are not as available or are funded at lower rates. As employers such as ASDA have highlighted, it is important that we see greater flexibility in terms of the age limit on apprenticeships. I also recognise the issue raised by Fulton McGregor about the low ratio of young people from a BAME background in apprenticeships. Given those issues, it is vital that we all work together to evaluate where we can improve access to the modern apprenticeship programme, because, as today's motion correctly notes, apprenticeships add a great deal of value to Scotland's economy and the skills of the workforce. That was made clear by the wealth of talent that we saw being honoured last year at the Scottish Apprenticeship's award in November. I thank Fulton McGregor once again for bringing this member's debate to the chamber today, and I encourage everyone to get involved in the many events taking place next week to celebrate Scottish Apprenticeship week. I thank Fulton McGregor for bringing in his debate to the chamber. The Scottish Apprenticeship week provides an opportunity to highlight the huge benefits of people having the ability to work and earn while studying, and, ultimately, in many cases, securing a skillset that will always be a demand for. Of course, university, college or entering the workplace are right for some, but an apprenticeship will provide the answer to that question. I very much welcome there being this range of choices on offer to our young people. Last year, two young men from my constituency were recognised for successfully embracing the benefits of an apprenticeship. Callum Loh, who started working at Invermarcus State in 2015, was named the Scottish Gamekeepers Association Young Gamekeeper of the Year. He manages grouse, deer stocking and other resident wildlife on the 55,000-acre mixed sporting estate in Scotland, and Callum was named Student Gamekeeper of the Year in 2014 and Lanter as Apprentice of the Year and Lerner of the Year in 2015. Sean Davis was named Apprentice of the Year at the trade awards last year. Sean and Apprentice Bricklayer with Stuart Millan Homes were recognised for being the best in his class when he was at college and for an, I quote, unwavering motivation and ambition to hone skills in the trade and for his unparalleled work ethic. As a young man, he was the best in his class in the trade and for his unparalleled work ethic, as well as his ability to learn fast and his attention to detail. Presiding Officer, as you know, I am always not one to pass up an opportunity to highlight success stories from my constituency. But today I also want to focus on the provision of a safety net for when things, as they sometimes do, go wrong. Not through anything an apprentice may have done, but when an employer perhaps goes into administration. In 2014, that was the fate that befell John M Henderson, a engineering firm in Arbroath, with 16 apprentices being told they were to lose their job, eight of whom had started that apprenticeship just 11 weeks earlier. It was a devastating experience, not only for the young people concerned, but their wider families. I know, because as a constituency MSP, I was contacted by a number of them and was actively involved in securing a solution. Thanks to the Scottish Government's adopt an apprentice scheme and a terrific local rally round, those who were in the second year or later stages of their apprentices ultimately did not have too much trouble finding other employment. If memory serves, all bar one continued their apprenticeship elsewhere, the exception being allowed who decided to change career paths. Let me acknowledge the fantastic contributions made to that rally round by the Angus Training Group, Angus Council and the local PACE team. Let us also recognise that firms who took on those apprentices were able to receive support from the adopt an apprentice scheme, which offers financial incentives of £5,000 to the oil and gas sector and £2,000 for all other industries. To take on an apprentice has been let go to help with wage costs. The big challenge around the Henderson apprentices was finding work for those eight lads, five in the care of the training group and three at Angus College, who had barely embarked upon their first year. That is where the training group really stepped up to the mark, committing at a potential cost of up to £18,000 to assuming responsibility for their new starts, guaranteeing them the completion of the first year of their apprenticeship, the training, regardless of whether employers were found or not. Angus Council also stepped up to the mark, supporting the training group via its towards employment scheme with wages and travel costs for 12 weeks or until employment was found, so that the apprentices were in a position to continue with their training. Ultimately, two of the five found other employers, one went to college. The money that Angus Council provided meant that those remaining apprentices could be kept on for over 30 weeks, the rest of their full training before finding employment. I relate the tale not to introduce a negative note, but to highlight during this apprenticeship week that it is not always plain sailing and between the various bodies and the Government there was and is when required that safety net available that I touched upon earlier. Let me conclude by taking the opportunity provided by the apprenticeship week and this debate to pay tribute to Alan Swanky, the MD of the training group who used to retire shortly. Alan is stepping down after 39 years, in that time more than 1,600 apprentices have passed through the group's doors. Young men and women who, with that grounding, have grown to make careers for themselves in the engineering sector. That's quite a career achievement for Alan and a testimony to the work done by this highly regarded training provider. I thank Fulton MacGregor for bringing this debate to Parliament this afternoon. Like many members, I will be supporting apprenticeship week, which begins on Monday with workplace visits and briefings with Skills Development Scotland. Apprenticeships are an essential part of the labour market where government intervention is both welcome and necessary. It is right that we do not leave the labour market to market forces alone but that we plan it. Skills Development Scotland spends around £30 million a year in the area that I represent to support the Skills Agenda back in over 6,000 apprentices in training half of those on modern apprenticeships. The Glasgow City Region Economic Action Plan, which is the action plan for the city deal, promises every 16 to 24-year-old a job, training or an apprenticeship a right to work in effect. With youth unemployment in Scotland about twice the national average of other age groups at 9 per cent, according to SPICE, that represents a bold commitment that could transform the lives of a whole generation of young people. It is an example, I would suggest, of the difference that labour in power in local government can make. We live in topsy-turvy political times. Last year, when the details of the apprenticeship levy were announced by the Conservative Government, the Conservative spokesperson in this Parliament declared, that we now have the chance to invest in Scotland's workers. The SNP Government Minister, who is sitting here this afternoon, said in his press release, that this is an unnecessary financial burden for employers. For our part, the concerns across the Labour movement are around a concern that the new levy, which will be introduced in just a few days' time, could put downward pressure on wages and serve as a financial disincentive to employers, to directly employ workers, as employers just below the £3 million pay bill threshold seek to avoid the levy altogether, and those above it try to keep their pay bills static or even cut it in order to minimise their liability under the levy. That is why, as— I will do yes. I think that he makes an eminently sensible point incidentally in terms of the disincentive that he has identified. We need to also join with me in recognising that it also introduces, where I spoke of the burden on employers, of course it introduces a £73 million tax burden on the public sector, removing investment in the public sector. Mr Leonard. Yes, I agree. It was presented as an additional benefit to Scotland, but actually when you look at the liability on public sector, employers leave a hole in public finances. I want to turn my attention in the minutes that I have got to talk about the Scottish Government's approach, which is to go for an employer leadership model, setting up a Scottish apprenticeship advisory board. I hope that the Scottish Government will listen to employee leadership as well, because if the Government simply provides for employer domination of the design and quality of Scotland's apprenticeships, it will be tailored solely to meet the ends of employers, not to meet the needs of working people and young working people in particular. Therefore, to the minister this afternoon, establishing a Scottish Government apprenticeship framework standards group with only one trade union representative out of 21 members is not good enough. Forming a Scottish apprenticeship employer equality group with one trade union representative out of 23 is not good enough either. Setting up a Scottish apprenticeship employer engagement group with nobody from the trade union movement on it is bluntly unacceptable. Creating a main advisory board directing these groups with one trade union representative on it out of 28 members by any measure in plain and simple terms is neither democratic nor representative. In fact, there are as many voices from employers caught up in the construction industry blacklisting scandal on the Scottish Government's advisory board and apprentices as there are trade union voices. I am sure that that was not the result that the minister set out to achieve, but that is the result that we have got, and so he should act to correct it. Finally, I have been impressed in my own work with Skills Development Scotland in how they are targeting young people who have come through the care system, who are going through the community justice system. We should be demanding equality for these young people and for all those others whose access to the labour market is subject to barriers. That is where I hope we can redouble our efforts this year, building on the focus that Apprenticeship Week provides to boost not just the quantity of Scotland's apprenticeships but, as the motion suggests, just as importantly, to boost their quality and their equality too. Thank you, Mr Leonard. I call Alison Johnstone to be followed by David Torrance. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and to Fulton MacGregor for bringing this debate. I am certainly glad that it is not about a certain TV show and its hosts. What this week is about is promoting apprenticeships as an important and rewarding career path and celebrating businesses who value training up their staff. I hope that it is also about challenging stereotypes, but it has occurred to me that we are not exactly gender-balanced in this debate today. During my time as a councillor in Edinburgh and as an MSP for the Lothian region, I have met apprentices and employers who have taken on apprentices, and their experience of apprenticeship has been overwhelmingly positive. I would encourage anyone in school to consider it as a career option. The Wood commission reported a few years ago that there was an absolute insistence on parity of esteem, and I think that it really is high time that we challenged this notion that vocational apprentices, that career path, is in any way inferior to that of higher education. In Edinburgh, in 2016-17, there were over 1,000 modern apprenticeship starts, so young people won't be alone in taking up this positive path. Next week we'll see Edinburgh host a roadshow for S4 to S6, and for anyone up to 24 years old, it will be an open day where you'll learn about apprenticeships, there will be events for parents, careers advisors and teachers, and a graduation event and I really would encourage those who can to get along. Last year I had the privilege of awarding prizes won by construction apprentices in this building. It was an incredibly moving afternoon and I heard from one young man, his tail will always stick in my mind, he had a cycle to work on a pink bicycle, that always sticks in my mind because, to be honest, he couldn't afford the transport costs on his wage. The green manifesto in which I stood for election highlighted the importance of paying apprenticeships at least the living wage, regardless of age. The national minimum wage for apprentices remains incredibly low, £3.40 an hour, rising to £3.50 from April this year, less than half the minimum wage and a far cry from a living one. The majority of apprentices are paid more than this minimum, but if we want to really value vocational jobs and reward that with fair pay, the UK Government needs to raise the statutory minimum and we should add our voices to that call. Edinburgh has a successful scheme called the Edinburgh guarantee to offer a job, training or education to every school leaver. There's a similar national ambition, but we know that 8 per cent of school leavers left without a job, training or further education and that this rises to 15 per cent among school leavers from the most disadvantaged areas. Apprenticeship week may be able to give more opportunities to these young people and I do think that we need to do more to reduce gender stereotypes and increase ethnic minority participation and a welcome full to McGregor's focus on that and other colleagues too. I don't think anyone in this debate will disagree. The question is how we tackle this challenge. The organisation closed the gap, created a tool based on a work by the Women in Scotland's Economy Research Centre and applied it to the Scottish modern apprenticeship programme and some of the ideas that came forward were taster sessions for women in non-traditional career paths, still far too few involved in construction, financial incentives for employers recruiting women in non-traditional careers, more women-only pre-vocational training courses and same-sex mentors. Another idea with potential included having two work experience placements at school, one for a pupil's first choice location and a second in a non-traditional industry. Before we even look at the concentration of women in service roles traditionally paid less, the most recent SDS stats show that 63 per cent of MA starts were male, 37 per cent female, 1.7 per cent from ethnic minority backgrounds. I welcome the Government's ambitions to do more and plans like SDS's equality action plan and fund to give support to employers to take on modern apprentices for more diverse backgrounds. I hope that apprenticeship week strap line and apprenticeships are changing, canering true for improvements in gender, pay and parity of esteem. In closing, none of this should take away from my experience that apprenticeships are already an excellent career path for many and I'd encourage any young person to go along to an event near you and consider this. Thank you very much. David Tornsfall, David Tornsfall by Bill Bowman. Mr Torns, please. I would like to congratulate Fulton MacGregor for securing this debate in Parliament today to celebrate apprenticeship week 2017. The positive contribution apprenticeships have made on our society, whether individuals, businesses, government or a wider Scottish economy. I would encourage everyone to participate in events being held across Scotland to support and bring awareness to all of the amazing opportunities that apprenticeships provide. The theme of apprenticeship week 2017 is apprenticeships are changing. Each year, we set an extremely ambitious target to create new opportunities. By 2020, the Scottish Government aims to expand the number of modern apprenticeships opportunities to 30,000 new staffs each year, while simultaneously improving the induction of new standards to ensure that those seeking apprenticeships can rise to the top and reach their full potential. Even more young people will be able to enter a workforce ranging from employees such as BT, Microsoft, Scottish Power, Royal Air Force, Boots, British Airways, BBC Scotland, Sanendare and Lloyd's Bank Group, just to name a few. Small and local businesses have also pledged new apprenticeships and traineeships to give young people the opportunity to develop skills languages, mass social sciences to progress to other jobs and open other prospects. In my constituency, a wide array of apprenticeships are available and are specially catered to the skills that young people seek to develop and the goals they want to achieve. I was particularly impressed during the visit to Harry Fairburn, BMW Cardioship in Kirkcaldy, where I met and spoke to staff and young apprenticeships. The automotive and mechanical industry is a highly skilled field and I was amazed by not only the opportunities available, but the high standard of education and skill received by apprenticeships. FiveCancel and FiveCollege are some of the areas largest of apprentice employers and offers modern apprenticeships ranging from engineering, construction, social services and creative and media studies. The combination of learning and working provides young people with the best of both worlds, hands-on work experience as well as studying. The 30,000 yearly pledge of apprenticeship is a testament to the popularity of these apprenticeships. As more and more young people, employers, parents and teachers recognise the benefits that apprenticeships and work-based learning bring their economic and social investment into our economy, that will certainly trickle down to our local communities. It is crucial to recognise how businesses and young people can help each other through apprenticeships. When a young person gets involved with business as an apprentice, they receive the confidence and qualifications they need to succeed in the future. The businesses are able to build talent, productivity and motivation that is crucial for growth, success and accomplishment. The opportunities that apprenticeships provide deliver life-changing opportunities not only for young people but also for helping businesses who are eligible for grants by taking on an apprentice. Skills developed in Scotland, Scotland's national skills body, plays a crucial part in helping to create a skilled workforce that is prepared to face the future by setting up young people up for success in their careers. Crucially SDS is designed to tackle potential skills gaps, as well as supporting existing apprenticeships to develop their skills. There are still challenges that young people will enter in the workforce face today. For example, many young women are facing challenges and apprenticeships' opportunities are less attractive options rather than for their education. It is our job as policy makers to close the gender gap and ensure that every sector of our economy provides as many opportunities to women as it does to men. Apprenticeship is a real success story. Modern apprenticeship employs over 30,000 young people. 91 per cent of apprentices remain in employment six months after completing their modern apprenticeship. 96 per cent of employers believe that their former apprentices are often better equipped to carry out their jobs. Consistently with this year's theme, which highlights the change in nature of apprenticeships, SDS has introduced new programmes such as the foundation apprenticeship, which brings education closer to industry, as well as a graduate level apprenticeship that takes work-based learning up to a master's degree level. In conclusion, I encourage all my fellow MSPs to get involved with as many events as possible in their respective areas during apprenticeship week to show support to our country's future workforce. Growing town amongst the next generation and any 80 young people developed skills to assist into new careers through apprenticeships is a positive way of laying a strong foundation for economic and social improvements. Thank you very much, Ms Torrance. I know that you looked up at the clock, so we are making progress. I call Bill Bowman. Minister Bowman will be the last speaker in the open debate. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am pleased to participate in this afternoon's debate on apprenticeship week and join colleagues in congratulating Fulton MacGregor on bringing it forward. In the spirit of the earlier speakers, I wish everybody just happy Thursday since I do not have a specific opportunity. Like many members across the chamber, I am looking forward to participating in the Scottish apprenticeship week next week. I am going to be visiting two Dundee-based employers, Caledonia Housing Association and Roseango House Nursery, who employ nine apprentices. Those young people, employed by both of those employers, will benefit from the opportunity to build their confidence, learn something new and develop their skillset. I think that the confidence that the early member mentioned is an important aspect of this as well. Those are all attributes that will stand them in good stead when they embark on their chosen career path and apply for jobs. I was pleased to note that, in a survey by Skills Development Scotland that, in 2016, two thirds of modern apprentices who they surveyed were still employed with their original employer. In such a competitive job market as the one that exists today, any experience that young people can get in the world of work is good experience. Moreover, that experience is not only for those young people who complete their apprenticeships. The companies that employ them benefit from having someone with a willingness to learn and the ability to create a training programme for their apprentices that best meets the needs of their business. As the motion states, our country's workforce benefits. In my previous employment, it was one of the pleasures of my job to witness the progress that young trainee accountants who joined our firm made as they worked their way up the ladder while at the same time following a programme of professional development. In our manifesto last year, the Scottish Conservatives made three commitments in the skills portfolio to create new skills academies, expand the number of apprenticeship starts and provide more bite-sized training opportunities. We believe that the proceeds from the apprenticeship levy, which comes into force in April this year, should advance all three of those objectives. We will always welcome the creation of new and more apprenticeships. It is important to recognise that employer-delivered apprenticeships or training programmes are able to deliver the same standard of training without the additional benefit of government support. Something that a number of businesses have contacted me about and I hope the minister will consider. Scottish apprenticeships week is about celebrating and promoting the benefits that apprenticeships bring to individuals, businesses and the economy. As others have encouraged, I think that the more of us that can get out and see this on the ground, the better. It is one thing to listen and to read about, but when you actually see it in place, you see the benefit that it is doing. Apprenticeships are often the best route for those young people who do not consider university to be the right choice for them, but who would benefit more from going straight into the workplace. Learning on the job and working towards an industry-recognised qualification. I look forward to meeting apprenticeships during my visits next week and talking to them about their own experiences. We have a duty to do everything we can to support young people and give them the best opportunity to succeed. Whether through educational opportunities or vocational routes, it is important that the skill base of our workforce is matched to the needs of our economy now and in the future. I believe that apprenticeships will play a vital part in equipping our young people with the skills and experiences that are required to do that. Thank you. Thank you very much. I call on Jamie Hepburn to wind up for the Government. Minister, up to seven minutes please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Can I say the outset? I very much welcome the chance that we have had to debate next week's Scottish apprenticeship week. In that regard, can I join with others in thanking Fulton McGregor for having brought the subject matter to the chamber? Can I also wish the young McGregor that is Fulton McGregor's son, rather than Fulton McGregor himself, a very happy birthday? I think I heard you inquiring, Presiding Officer, as to whether or not that was because the Fulton McGregor's son had begun an apprenticeship. I know that there has been a call for the Scottish Government to embed a degree of age flexibility in terms of our approach to modern apprenticeships. I can confirm that we do not intend to go quite that far, Presiding Officer, but it is never too early to plan for undertaking an apprenticeship. Dean Lockhart misheard me when I did what we were always advised by yourself and the other Presiding Officers, not to do, Presiding Officer, so I apologise for having done so. I made a sedentary intervention. I think he thought I had said the sparky when he was talking about his nephew undertaking his apprenticeship. I hadn't actually done that. I was inquiring whether it was his nephew's birthday. I didn't get any sports. I don't really assume not, but let me wish Dean Lockhart's nephew all the best as he takes forward his apprenticeship. I'm very proud, Presiding Officer, that the range of apprenticeship opportunities that we have offered over the years has been able to change many lives for the better over the last parliamentary session. We have offered over 128,000 new modern apprenticeship starts supported by the Scottish Government and a range of members. All members have made the point that modern apprenticeship can be a life-changing opportunity for a person undertaking it. David Torrance was quite correct to identify that not only does it provide that person to be in work to have an industry recognised qualifications to support their future career ambitions, but it also builds a real sense of confidence in the person undertaking such an apprenticeship. Graham Day and Alison Johnstone talked about as needing to put apprenticeships on an equal footing with the pursuit of academia. I think that she used the term parity of esteem. Graham Day was making similar points. It is just as valid for a young person leaving the educational environment to undertake an apprenticeship as it is to move on to undertake the pursuit of further education or higher education. I think that that should be a core message that we take forward from this debate. It is something that we are trying to make very clear in the school of arts through our entire developing the young workforce agenda. I think that it is well worth us putting on the record. Having had this type of debate here in Scotland's national legislature allows us to recognise the equal validity of undertaking apprenticeship as with going on to academic pursuits. Indeed, apprenticeship week itself is an opportunity to promote such as well to try to dispel some of the misconceptions that have existed. I think that there are less that have existed that suggest that an apprenticeship is not as valuable as the pursuit of academic study. I will be undertaking visits each and every day next week. All Scottish Government ministers will be undertaking at least one visit associated with Scottish Apprenticeship week, as has been mentioned by every member. In this debate, all MSPs can do so. It is perhaps not surprising that, given that we are the select few taking partners debate that all of us intend to undertake such a visit, but I am sure that we are all encouraged colleagues to get involved in that activity too. Richard Leonard was quite correct. We cannot just leave to the market alone to determine how we take forward our apprenticeships. We certainly need to respond to economic and social demand. We certainly need employers across all sectors, not just the private sector but the public sector and the third sector to be involved in delivery. However, there is a critical role for Government intervention. There were some concerns raised by Mr Leonard about the role of trade unions. I will certainly, if he wants to contact me, be happy to reflect on any specific concerns that he has. However, I want to reassure him and all members across the chamber that I take very seriously that he needs to engage with trade unions, the Scottish Trade Union Congress, around this matter and all matters related to my portfolio. I can tell him that my officials were engaging directly with the SDUC just last week in relation to how we, as an administration, have responded to the apprenticeship levy and were very supportive of the approach that we are taking. Having mentioned the levy, I have to say that it was somewhat surprising to me that it was left to Mr Leonard to raise the levy. I think that, thus far, it has been a Conservative speaker who raised the issue around the apprenticeship levy with me last far. I think that the penny must finally be dropping with Conservative members, given that they did not raise it today. I think that they are now beginning to recognise that the will has been pulled over the eyes of many people by the implementation of this new fiscal measure by the UK Government. Of course, it does not bring forward pockets of new funding for disbursement for activity related to apprenticeships and employability and training. Essentially, it replaces existing funding. I quite genuinely think that many members in the Conservative constituency did not quite realise and recognise that. First, of course, many people, I think that all of us now recognise that as the case. I mention the levy because what we did in response to the imposition of that levy by the UK Government was what the UK Government did not do. We went out and undertook a public consultation in relation to the levy, and that has been hugely instructive in determining how we take forward our further offering of the delivery of apprenticeships. We are undertaking implementation of all of what we found and gathered through the consultation that we undertook. That is why we are rolling out an ambition to have 30,000 more apprenticeships starts by the year 2020, which is what the consultation told us to do. That is why we are expanding the provision of graduate apprenticeships. That is why we are implementing a flexible workforce development fund, which is something else that the consultation did. Have we got time? Are we delighted to give way to Mr Lockhart? Mr Lockhart. Thank you very much. I understand that the rate of apprenticeships in Scotland is approximately one-half of the rate of the rest of the UK. With the numbers that you provided, when do you see equilibrium being reached in the sense of apprenticeship numbers in Scotland reaching the same level as the rest of the UK? Minister? I wonder when. That is the first time that has been raised with me in the chamber. I knew inevitably it would be because it is not for me, incidentally, to worry about what the provision of apprenticeships might be in the rest of the UK. It is certainly not in England, that is for the UK Government to worry about. I just wonder with this massive expansion that they are planning to undertake to essentially have 600,000 starts each and every year going forward. I just wonder how that can possibly be delivered because if you undertake the process consultation which we undertook, there was no demand to have a pro-rata share of that level of delivery. For me, we have a very high quality modern apprenticeship offering here in Scotland. I think that there are significant questions about the quality of apprenticeship that might be delivered south of Birmingham. I will be happy to explore that further with Mr Lockhart, but I suggest that he looks a bit closer at what might have been delivered in the rest of the UK. Let me finish in on him a bit over time now. You are always very generous to me and allow me to make the relevant points that must be made and pick up on what members have said because there were some issues raised. I am not too generous. I have always found you remarkably generous. Your time is getting shorter all the time. Your time is getting shorter all the time. Your time is getting shorter all the time. Your time is getting shorter all the time. In terms of the qualities agenda that members have raised, I recognise that there is significant underrepresentation for certain sections of our society in our modern apprenticeship delivery. Undoubtedly, some of the barriers are structural. I think that largely, though, they are, and I think that Arsene Johnson made this point that they are cultural. That is not going to be readily overcome, but there is a significant desire to achieve the better spread and representation of modern apprentices across the country. We are implementing some changes to try to incentivise that through an enhanced payment for those who are disabled, for those who are care leavers. We are introducing a rural supplement for modern apprentices from next year to try to respond to some of those challenges, but we will always be willing to consider what more we can do. In that regard, let me conclude by saying that it is very welcome that we have had this debate. I wish all the members who are going to undertake visits next week a very enjoyable set of visits, and it is absolutely appropriate that we have had this chance to recognise apprentices of the length and breadth of Scotland who are undertaking fantastic work. Thank you. That concludes the debate. I now suspend this meeting until 2.30.