 Very good welcome everyone So this is the talk about open source seriously You can choose whether there is a question mark or an exclamation mark after that Statement but I hope at the end of this presentation that you will all have an exclamation mark Or at least a dot sort of passive-aggressive dot There at the very end so just to Change around a little bit do the right branding Good, okay. It's the 17th of May everyone congratulations. It's the national day of Norway. I'm from Norway so that's really important and In Norway, that's a lot about children going in parades down the street waving flags We gave away all of our tanks to Ukraine. So that's Why we do the children? Would have been terrible to do the opposite So yes When we start a presentation, it's always good to start with the important stuff. So talking about myself, of course I am a tears bought lesniak and I am from just outside of Oslo in Norway. Norway is far away Right now. I'm based in Hawkes Bay, which is much closer. It's about an hour's flight four and a half hours drive from here in New Zealand and Also, the reason why I'm There right now is that my wife is a Kiwi and we're trying out New Zealand on our kids See if they get spots or something like that I've been working with typo 3 since 2003 when I crashed my first installation of that CMS I Can crash Drupal any day But yeah That you know, that's the way you learn you crash things and then you try to fix it afterwards My way to do that was to try to write my own CMS for about six months And that did not work out So I went back to type of three and now I'm a part of the type of three association board Which is not boring And I'm an open-source evangelist to do Working here in New Zealand so back to open source seriously Because this is going to be about open source on a fundamental level But before I do more about open source, I'm going to answer the question. You're all sitting with right now, which is What the heck is type of three well Type of three is a PHP based CMS. You've never heard about anything like that, right? Uh-huh Well, it's also free and open source totally unknown and It's community driven who's heard about that before and Yeah, it's backed by an association. How funny who does that? and It's got a long history. We're actually 25 years this year, so that's how long our history is and The point I'm trying to make here is of course that type of three is quite similar to Drupal if you look Below the surface because there is different concepts and there is different ways of doing things but really let's have a look just to to show you the real Similarity here, so I Took a look at you know, I downloaded the default base installation of Drupal and The default base installation of type of three so Drupal is in version 10. We just released type of three version 12 Yeah, we skipped version five for different reasons, so that's an unlucky number in the type of three world So Okay, if you look look at the dependencies in Drupal 10 There is 54 dependencies in a composer based install in Type of three. There's a little bit more. It's 98 dependencies That's we can discuss that for a very long time, but that's Just the number of dependencies, but the important thing that I want to show you today is that actually the similarities are Down at the bottom here We have 33 dependencies in common and If you look at older versions of of Drupal and type of three, there's even a little bit of type of three in Drupal it's gone now but see, we're really good friends actually and I think we should become better Friends and I'll show you why So this is Drupal and type of three, you know, usually when you talk to people from Drupal or type of three, it's a lot about you know, we're best and you know, they did all of those mistakes and ha ha Yeah, all of the things you hear from people who love Drupal and don't love type of three and the people who love type of three and absolutely hate, you know, that's not the right way of thinking We have so much in common and there's an important perspective to that as well Let's say that another CMS comes along as PHP based and open source and whatever. Let's call it Wordstar, right? and What sometimes happens with the open source Communities, you know, we look at them and we say, you know, they're new they've done something here We wouldn't have done it that way. We've been here 25 years but you know, suddenly it combusts and There is a huge security issue and we're like, huh, good We've been here for 25 years because we're you know, we wouldn't have done that, but you know now they're totally Yeah, out of the market, but Actually What happened to that CMS there? Actually very much affects us because there is a dark cloud Looming above us in the open source world. Yeah It's the proprietary vendors and do you know something about the proprietary vendors? Hmm They talk about open source as one they they're gonna say, you know Look at what happened with that security issue in open source. That's why you have to choose proprietary That's You know, don't choose Drupal. Don't choose type of three. Don't choose anything. That's open source And I mean, I still meet people at conferences where I say, you know, I'm from an open source CMS and they go Open source. Yeah, I tried that once Yeah, right So that really tells us what people See when they see our marketplace they very often choose between proprietary or open source in their mind and We need to be there too and we need to understand that this isn't a battle between Drupal and type of three or other Open source CMS is it's primarily About taking open source seriously so the first choice is When you get a new client or you talk to someone is Not Well, are you gonna choose Adobe or Drupal? What's your choice or for me, you know, are you gonna choose? Let's say a site core. Yeah, or a type of three Proprietary no You know None of those are really good questions when you start with a client The real important Questions should be are you going to go for proprietary or open source? That is the battle we have to win together so When it comes to choosing a new system for your client, of course Choose open source Then You choose the CMS or the system that works for the client I know a lot of type of three sites that have been built because the agency knew type of three But type of three didn't actually fit for the client It's not good for open source when we just base ourselves on whatever platform we know and then It doesn't actually fit for the client That's bad marketing in the end because people go and say like this guy I met at a conference a month ago now who said, you know, yes, I tried open source and it didn't work Well, whose fault is that? Is that his fault? Or maybe He simply was introduced to the wrong tool Well, we have to ask ourselves those questions and then you choose the best agency and that's also something we very often forget that When we sell open source software, well, we don't sell open source software doing Well, we sell our expertise with the software and that is also important If you know that somebody can do things a lot better than you Maybe you should be honest and say that well, you know in my agency We work a lot with this kind of stuff We don't have experience with this maybe you would get the best result We're working with this agency or maybe you should simply collaborate And then I know some of you in the room here are asking, but why is Open source the obvious choice? Well, it's not only a technology choice And the reason is here in the desert Well, everyone the desert is a very good picture of close source It's a mono culture sand and It creates dependence whoever owns the watering hole Owns the people right It's the only place you can go to get water That's a proprietary way of thinking on the other hand we have Open source Well, open source is diversity to the extreme of course, but it really Points to giving people freedom That's why we say free and open source You have the freedom to make what you want There is no dependence here But if you look at the biology here, there is of course interdependence. Well, we share dependencies, right? There is interdependence between Drupal and type of three. So when you compare these two You know the water hole owner Well, once you know where the water hole is it's easy for you as long as you have no problem with the water hole owner You can just lean back and relax, right? Well Open source Doesn't always make it easy, but it asks something from you it asks you to make the change that you want to see and I Well, this is you Well, imagine that this is your garden, right? You've been redoing your house or something Your problem here is that you don't have a car or at least not a pickup or a youth It's cold around here, but you have a friend who has right so you call up your friend and use this Oh God, oh my garden is looking like this, you know Can you come and help me with your car and we'll drive it off to the dump and clean up your friend says yeah, sure Of course, I'll do that with you well When you're finished you might you know Give your friend a few dollars to cover petrol or something the cost of enablement But you're not going to ask Your friend is not going to ask you to pay him or her by the hour Right because that's what friendship is about It's a kind of love, right and it very much describes open source as well We just give something away without expecting something that we might actually ask for a payment for the download for the enablement But it's really there for free. It's a type of love and it's really Unconditional love which is really nice a nice thought. It's not the sticky kind of love, it's it's a different kind of love and That has to be a conscious effort to think that way when you work with open source Open source takes more than one person. It takes you and a friend it takes you on multiple friends and it requires a number of things it requires commitment contribution community and cooperation to really work You can't lean back with open source, but it asks something of you And I think that's actually a really healthy question and a lot of what you guys do in your open source community is also what we could call development corporation You cooperate about development. Well development corporation is another word That's also used outside in the rest of the world, but it means something slightly different It means What you might call development aid? Right, but it's not it's not aid. It's cooperation. It's working together and In the type of three association we had an experience with that the difference between aid and cooperation and It all began with a phone call Yeah, that's how our phones look We got a phone call from the random government Hmm, you get a lot of those well It was real and they said hi, we've got 250 type of three Installations they're old. We need to upgrade them. Can you help us? We said oh Sure But how are we gonna do that? Are we gonna do well? We could you know recommend an agency that we've got Ask them to make a proposal. It's gonna cost us in that much and They'll get the stuff done But then we thought you know is that the open-source way Because very often when it comes to this kind of thing it starts out That this is actually the way that a lot of governments promote helping Developing countries today You take an established business that opens a local office in The developing country and then they earn lots of money and they export it, right? because that's what the business is about when you do it from a business perspective and You get all of these things that you actually what you're doing is That you're building dependencies you're building a desert Where someone comes in and they can take the whole market because they rich they have millions in marketing, right? Well, if you look at that from a historical perspective that is both Colonialist and exploitative Because it doesn't really take the best out of the country that you're in and use it there You just take out the money and place it somewhere else so we thought How can we do that from the open-source spirit? Well, what we thought was that we could use our community our open-source community to create Independent local business and expertise in Rwanda that is different. So we talked to our member agencies and We asked them to donate time we paid travel and food and stuff to Rwanda and we sent our experts down to train Local web agencies to help their government Upgrade their website This is how it looked was a number of trips down to to Rwanda to do this So basically the government in Rwanda Could use their money to pay their taxpayers To do a job for them instead of paying someone from the outside and we gave away our expertise This is the result. It's not up at 270 websites. There will probably be about 500 in the end and if you look at this as a Newspaper headline. I'm sure it's not going to be like this in a in a newspaper basically the essence of what we did is that we took our Democratic and not-for-profit open-source project and used it to support sustainable and independent local business and from the perspective of fighting Colonialism and exploitation and those kind of things there's three words here that are important one is that it was locally led so it wasn't someone coming in and Doing it for anyone there. It was locally led so it based itself in The place where it was done. It was also non-exploitative and It was anti-colonial and when you talk to aid Workers and NGOs about that they Go like ah, yes but For us. There's actually one other word here that is much more important for for our project and that is Community because community is what we want to grow as an open-source project We want to not have more people have websites made by existing agencies. We want more agencies to work with open-source and being in a community Also has some really important values connected to it. If you're in a community you have to be your best Otherwise the community will not work if you're in a community You have to deal with stuff like governance and a good way to do governance in the community is also democracy for example and Governance Working with interests in a community. That's also something that is called civil society I'll get back to that But that's what community does when you have to collaborate. You can't just be dependent. You have to be active yourself so The values of open-source it turns out are actually the values of a healthy society an open-source is actually Civil society it's a part of civil society and If you wonder about what civil society is and the importance of it Well, let me just say one thing about civil society civil society won the Nobel Peace Prize last year That is where open-source connects in to the greater Society and the reason why I'm talking about this is because we can continue doing open-source as sort of our little island But if we really think about what open-source really means Look at the world today Democracy is under attack. There's a lot of things happening that are working against these community values that we also work with and when you work with open-source you're training yourself in Doing the right thing for your country and your local community. So you're actually strengthening civil society here in New Zealand and Australia wherever you live By working with open-source in a community with other people and that is Why we should really take open-source seriously Not only as something that we use but as the community that we're a part of and look beyond our individual projects and See all of the connection points that we have to other open-source projects Because by working together and understanding the value of that That is how we can really fight proprietary software with open-source Thank you. So the question is how do I see competing open-source CMS is finding Well, they're why they're way to exist in the market without destroying each other Well, I think you know Back to the picture of the desert We don't want a monoculture because it would be just as bad if There was a monopoly on type of three or on Drupal in the world that would not drive Development really and it would not benefit the people who they after they work on the dependencies that Rcms is dependent And I think You know, yes, there is a kind of competition, but I like to point to the agencies more on that. I mean What expertise can you bring in That will make Drupal work for your client in the best possible way That is the real question and Then we have to be frank with each other and say that well there are definitely projects for type of three and there's projects for Drupal and The other CMS would not really work as a good solution for that and on the other side in some cases You have to say that well both can solve the same problems. Well Then you have to look to the agencies you have to look at the expertise and say well Who is here who can solve this question in the best possible way and then Apart from that, I think we should forget about the competition part and I think we should collaborate because we Well, it's not a good argument to say, you know, Drupal is better than Adobe Because there's so many more values and open source that if you choose open source for all of your solutions and your government or in your business That's going to have benefits beyond your technical website solution right and I think that we need to get together to support our upstream providers to make sure that what we're building up our software on is actually good and solid and supported and we have to take our Communities and learn from each other because that's also something that can come from the proprietary world that you know They've got a crappy community. Well, we have to learn community best practices and help each other Become communities that can really really make good software Because that's the way We're all gonna win in the open source world by cooperation So the answer is how we can Can I short question? Well, the the proprietary systems have a lot of marketing money, for example, we do not and how can we work with that? Well, of course, it's everybody's dream to have a lot of money You know, if you're not a member of the Drupal Association, for example become one It's a great way to support your open source project and help them actually do marketing on your behalf But on the other side, we have these values. There are much bigger than just the business and if it's something that you can talk about that's bigger than your project Talking about values is a way to get into government talking about values as a way to get into corporations because they Also want to mostly do the best for their citizens do the best for their clients do the best for the world and That means that we also have some arguments that are unique to the way we work and instead of fighting Proprietary software on the well who's got the most security holes in their system? Well, you can't say that about proprietary systems because you can't look into them, right? So that's a very very hard fight to fight but if you talk about values and talk about how Open source is really a part of a really positive movement in the world You've got something you can talk about that goes way beyond what? the proprietary software can So that's my answer sort of but yes money everyone wants money But yes become a member of the Drupal Association support open source. That's important Yeah, so that's the question of you know how How do I relate to to love when it comes to software open-source software being put out there, but then being exploited by rich Corporations that just take and take and take and never give back You know, we're always going to have that happen and at the same time by talking about the importance of giving back we're actually Changing some minds making a little bit of progress on that it's always going to be a fight But if we stop talking about the important part of giving back then it's never gonna happen and There is nothing wrong, you know in sitting there at home and downloading an open-source piece of software and not paying for it if you don't know About open source it's nothing wrong about not having money and not paying for You know a developer who wants to attend a conference. There's nothing wrong in that but there's a difference between consciously choosing not to and not knowing and That's why we need to talk about open source Because it also makes a pressure on these corporations to actually give something back and The when I talk to people who don't know open source. I often use the example of the cooking recipe Let's say that you have a really great cooking recipe and You make food for someone and they say wow, this is a great recipe Can I have it from you and you say yeah sure I'll write it down and you give it to someone and There's two things that can happen that person starts a you know burger chain or whatever and Says that you know I've got the world's best burgers and that person does not say that this burger recipe is actually from you The other way to do it the more open-source way is to say that well, you know a month later you come back to To me and give me my recipe and say that well, you know, I made this improvement If you add this or remove that it's going to be so much better and That is the community working because the community contributions actually make the software better by just Taking the software and using it. You're actually not improving it and That hurts you in the end as well