 All right, so ladies and gentlemen on that note we now get started with our next panel discussion and our panelists are here already So I'm gonna quickly invite Mr. Anuj Puri to please come on the stage Warm welcome, sir. I believe the first round of discussion already took place outside So we'll get started here as well. Well joining him on the stage I'd now like to invite Mr. Jayesh Kharia chartered accountant and real estate consultant to please come on the stage as well In fact, he comes with over 25 years of professional experience with the big four consulting firms in India And he's also heading the real estate and construction practice at KPMG for about four years Our next speaker Solicitor Parimal Shroff founder and Solicitor Parimal K. Shroff and co In fact is in the practice since 1975 and has the experience in land acquisition and requisition and related matters as well Well moving on to our next speaker We have at the CEO and managing director ASK property investment advisors. May I please invite Mr. Amit Bhagat as well on the stage He comes with Over two decades of experience in the financial services mainly in the mortgage and real estate business Moving on to our next speaker the CEO Grandview Sharpojio Palangir real estate may I please invite Mr. Dipesh Salgi as well to please come on the stages and stage and he comes with over 25 years of versatile work experience across real estate Consultancy as well as the experience including in land acquisition JV structuring Design and architecture of projects as well. Well, moving on the marathon list of panelists continue because up next we have at us the managing director commercial real estate and REIT we have at us Mr. Vinod K. Rohida And if I may please invite him on the stage as well And he's also been equipped with an MBA from Boots school of business Chicago and a law degree from Mumbai University And has played a vital part in the company's initial move towards retail development moving on to our final speaker We have at us. Mr. Manish Borval Mr. Manish Borval my apologies who's the managing director of all chemist marketing solutions who comes with more than 22 years of experience in Media and marketing services across the national markets Okay, there we go. We are done with a round of introduction So we know what up next is to get some energy from the audience We just had a dose of caffeine. So can we have some warm round of applause to welcome our second set of panel members? And let's find out the experiences and influences concerning Raira. So with that, I'm going to request our session moderator Mr. Anush Puri to take it over from here. Oh, what is up? Thank you very much? You know, it's a delight to be here this evening Thank you to reality plus for organizing this phenomenal panel. I'm genuinely excited to Moderate this panel because we could not have had more eclectic panelists from various industries including legal fraternity and You know, we haven't seen Mr. Parimal Shroff come often on the panel So I'm sure there is a lot that all of us have to ask, you know, Mr. Shroff we've got On the tax and the consulting side, Jayesh, we've had Amit on the private equity side Vinod on representing the developers in there and likewise The page and and Manish on the marketing side. So it'll be interesting to hear the developers views the legal fraternity view the Consultants view and the private equity Views the first one, you know that I really wanted to start with you at two questions and You know, these are interesting questions I'm not getting into the depth of the radar as yet, but just at 30,000 feet I want to start and then I probably will go into into into the bottom of this is tell me We know that how will radar change the perception of Indian real estate amongst the global investors, you know given that You know, you are now hopefully looking to do a read I know you've done a big private equity transaction with Blackstone I mean, it's the world's largest real estate private equity and you now have them as your partner How do you believe that Rida is going to change this perception with the global investors? I think it's certainly going to help because In most cases the risk premium attached to buying Properties or investing into properties on the Excel has gone away. So you've not seen residential investments happen from International players in the last three four years. They've probably forgotten about residential. Can you hear him at the back? Not audible. So so I get a little louder. Can you hear me? So they've forgotten residential real estate in the last few years having said that investors The international investors so having said that with Rera and if you have a Structured approach and you have a product and a land site which is compliant and you're willing to list it out and you're working in that Mechanism you will certainly get interest generated Because you'll have a lot of the risks perceived risk go down And you'll be more conducive to making their investment having said that it's still very very early days And we have to see how Rera really pans out in its spirit and content to see how it can get implemented for the best interest of all Do you think it'll infuse the much required confidence in the buyers? so the buyers Unfortunately, don't really know Anything beyond of the fact that yes Rera is a legislation which is going to look after their interests it could go the other end of the spectrum completely because There are situations if you look at Rera in other countries similar to that. It's become a litigant society Because of the act the way it works out in China for example And you have even if a handle breaks out you have a complaint filed and then you have a case registered So we're hoping that doesn't happen to an environment in India because it'll create chaos Having said that it's a fantastic legislation for the consumer and I think they'll only benefit out of this Amit, you've largely been giving debt to the developers Mezzanine or however you make qualified, but it is it is that do you think with data coming in you'll start to Bring in equity into the residential real estate market. I'll just like to clarify one thing We have been only doing And actually that that is why there are projects where we have made 18 and 55 percent So neither in any debt case nobody will give me a 55 percent and you know, I cannot fall to seven but but there is no It's a prediction that It's a complete barry pass who returns with the risk taken at the land buying stage And so we have done almost 24 projects so far We were very clear right in the beginning and we were actually following a format of Rera by land don't leverage put all money in a screw and utilize it for construction and When you want exit then there are enough people to give money on the project So if I if I go back and look at the implementation of the Rera and all our projects in five states I don't see it impacting any of my project So I think it's a it's a win-win situation every month We come across one international investor and we have raised money only from domestic market so far Every month we come across one international investor who says because of this regulation I am now willing to look at oh again at residential Your equity your I mean, I'm gonna ask you a little tricky question. I don't know how many developers are there in this room If there are hundred developers How many you think are going to survive the next 18 months because of Rera? I think 20 or 30 my god Wow Wow, I mean that is a big statement 70 80 developers in the next percent in the next 18 months will perish I'm not saying perish them. They may not be interested in continuing with this business Because that's a polite way of perish Yeah Clearly because That raw Peter to pay Paul is gone And you have to now invest equity in buying of land And provide some working capital Because Rera will not allow you to take money from day one till you have spent So I think the business model has to change Well capitalized deep pocketed players will start entering into this business Brand building is not very easy but People very credible players will be able to sell The only silver lining is the customer is feeling empowered because of the legislation So he may come back at the right price point We know the one one question to you and then I'm going to move Parimal Bhai to your side Are you getting a lot of Propositions from developers to come in and do joint venture joint development management contract of their existing land parcels There is definitely movement in terms of proposals that are coming on the table And I think it's only going to increase in the next three months to six months because I think by Early next year first quarter next year the second quarter You will know the real impact of Rera and the consequences of that on projects that might want Infusion of equity or takeover or repositioning product to actually bring it back to market because if commitments are made You're halfway through a project You have no option but to pour concrete whether you get sales or not If you don't you got to switch off Unwind and exit so I don't think there's a waiting game anymore If you have already started selling a project and most projects have sold speculatively without approval So that's a big gap which needs to get filled up Anuj if you see the pre Rera kind of thing We have seen kind of before demonetization or after demonetization the consolidation has already started I think the heat has already kind of Is there in the market and people have started realizing that this is not the kind of I would study era of 1980s or 1990s But I think the complete there is a complete sea change in the whole way the business needs to be done Therefore just coming back to your point that how many will survive So he nicely said but I I'm going to see There is going to be a huge consolidation that's going to happen So maybe that I think will I think reduce the number of I would say the players That will bring in the kind of the quality players and the committed players Then the kind of what the contractors became and saying they're okay. Fine. I'm a developer So I think all those things will disappear. Yeah, and that is going to be a good for the industry Yeah, and just what amit said is that he felt is that the consolidation Will be to the tune of 70 80 percent of the developers will disappear or get consolidated in some form Right, whether it is those joint ventures developers as the node said so your thought is similar that there is Yeah, absolutely So I mean guys a lot of guys who are there on the floor You know, you you need to be careful which which with which developers Are you employed? One and second is, you know, which of your vendors you would get finally paid By those by those developers, you know, you and the fraternity as well will have to be sort of careful On on that because you know, it is an interesting analysis And that is that is what the truth is nobody is dramatizing it But that is what the truth is that 70 80 percent Of the of the fraternity on the real estate development side will get consolidated Perhaps that needed to happen for the industry to move forward for the industry to mature for the next cycle to come in that some of the Perhaps not well capitalized As you said equity developers who did not have the ability to buy land through equity Perhaps need to get consolidated Parimal by a barge of questions to you and jish The first one that I have is what do you feel are the key challenges Successful implementation of rara on ground first and foremost is maharastha has secured a lot of ground at this point of time by having a maharara authority Which is pragmatic which is matured and I believe is Is very friendly for the purpose of implementation of law It is not looking at the letter of the law for the purpose of You know beating the industry it is trying to be pragmatic the manner in which the late comers who are coming for registering the ongoing project shows that maharara is conducive to change But is also very understanding number one number two that the changes which are coming to get them absorbed We I believe require a more awareness in number of projects which have been registered and In maharastha though we are very impressed by the number which have been registered But it looks like the real estate agents are more registered and they are more conscious of getting the license to practice But the builders are not come out in the in the in the number that they should have come up to And new projects how they are getting registered will have to be seen Because that is required the new launches are necessary Because whatever registration we are looking at is of ongoing project And ongoing projects at various stages they are so that is not a parameter of where the industry is And we require something because whether you talk of investment whether you talk of the mutual funds coming and whether you talk of the foreign funds They are all looking at the big ticket transactions in which say dlf They are going to invest in where there is already a leased properties in which the rentals are the supposed to be the The the the package they are looking at is a return And that's like a rich kind of a business It is not actually helping the real estate industry for the new projects And they are not investing in the of them bringing more projects off the ground And rara we are all trying to get used to and I believe that the industry trying to absorb the effect of rara And you require rara compliance consciousness and rara compliance Mindset for the purpose of working Every developer will require in his office If he has got more than one project a real estate that the rara compliance officer Who will have to guide him every morning because there are so many things to be done If you are not going to really comply with it You will get into a unnecessary and avoidable problems which you can probably deal with comfortably So rara to my mind was much awaited very necessary pan india requirement You can't compare rest of india with maharashtra. You are something else. You are highly qualified You are highly organized. You are highly transparent compared to rest of india. Wow Maharashtra is I must tell you that I have experience of dealing in karnataka in tamil nandu And noida and and gurga is is another world is another orbit all together Because one day you go you don't find the developer the next time you go you can't don't find your project also So I believe that This is going to bring about a lot of change. I would say that c change it is going to bring about And long term result of rara is going to be good And this was much required And I believe that it's going to bring a lot of discipline to this industry, which is necessary Two more questions. Uh, just one wet the statistics kind of thing. In fact, uh, we had invited gautam by Autumn charity over here But unfortunately couldn't make it because of the durga puja But in terms of the statistics just to give you total almost about 13,800 projects have been registered by the developers And out of that almost about 450 to 500 are the new projects rest are all existing project, which is about 95 that's what the maharadak claims 95 projects have been registered and almost about 10,000 Channel partners of the brokers, whatever you call have registered and so that's a kind of a good news and The authorities are also I would say very positive as sorry, you rightly mentioned very pragmatic And happy to kind of resolve the problem And not to kind of create any I would say issues or the challenges for the sector If the developers are really willing to kind of go one step forward very nice Uh on the ongoing projects, pardon me What is going to happen because there has been delays that have happened? Uh, and then 70 percent of the money Is not really in the escrow account How is the regulator going to deal with the delays and the 70 percent of the money not being in an escrow account? Anuj ji the my personal view is That abhi to shuru hua hai ongoing project ka jo kail hai ush mein the real the maharara authority is going to be bogged down Because there is very little I would say meet into the matter or teeth into the law Which can make ongoing projects suddenly turn its trend The reason being Incomplete project languishing for several years with money not being there and dried out Stakeholders are diffident the banks are not willing to come forward rara can do very very little It can punish the promoter it can take over the project But let me tell you we have seen how asset reconstruction companies have been promising One after the other that we are going to really revive the companies take over sale of the assets But asset reconstruction companies have not brought about any change pink pages are everyday full of pages Of government trying to understand as to how to really take over this Seek industries and their assets same thing is there with the I would say that ongoing projects Rara will to some extent help it will bring the the woes of the people in the forefront maharara authority has the power to examine adjudicate punish direct payment of amounts Non-payment will bring about execution of orders But we as as One of the panelists right now said that it will become are we a litigated society? Which is going to go into some sort of a a litigation drive Anyway, the civil courts are full of it So instead of that now with the new authority coming into picture Which will be rare as a judicious judicial powers and the cases will come up there But that is not going to make the ongoing projects get completed easily Only awareness is created and maharara authority will intervene, but it cannot really deliver and there I believe that the To expect something more than that from the maharara authority will be expecting too much And that's a very good point Because the consumer thought is that now rara has come I will get my project I believe that is a slightly misplaced expectation and there is a shortly shortly the promoters are Afraid about the consequences. They are thinking they are answerable to somebody and more than anything There is a time element which has been introduced by rara, which is on one hand It's a very good thing and I believe that maharara authority is also conscious and I believe conscientious And it is trying to dispose of as fast as possible And more and more complaints are getting registered, which is bound to happen. Yes Because the registration the skewed Registration profile which has been given by my friend mr. Jayesh Is saying that there are hardly a couple of hundred new projects have been registered But they are all old projects which have come that was expected before first of August So I believe the There is there is a hope that this is going to bring about some positive result and it should really work towards Satisfying the complaints of the people who have been waiting for their projects to get completed Just to add in terms of the statistics today In fact as of now as of yesterday, I think almost about 400 plus complaints have already been filed by different consumers for whatever reasons And Almost daily the panel the panel of three members at maharara. I have been hearing having six to seven hearings per day So that's almost about 20 to 25 hearings are taking place And we have seen that the hearing does not drag along for months together or years together In the third session either developer consensus and then the matter gets resolved So it's as fast as it could weekend up Yeah In the civil court and in fact, you know just saying is that there are a hundred thousand cases Of property matters pending in the civil court Whilst we're doing very well here, but you know the old pending cases, perhaps they will move in here Some of them will move in here Yeah, but but maybe parimal Bhai can kind of Throw some light on it. I think the challenges are the the mostly is are all existing projects and there We have kind of two regulations which are dealing with one is a mofa where the agreement's already been entered into and the apartment's already been sold And from 1st may 2017 the agreement has to be in terms of rara So there are situations where whether the mofa will kind of will prevail or where rara will prevail And I think the regulators are also trying to figure out that how to kind of Expedite this judicious process and also manage both mofa versus rara and ensure that the kind of resolution is being Brought to the table kind of so that's again a dichotomy with the regulators themselves are facing and trying to see how that can be resolved from a legal standpoint Just the question that I had for you was Many of these states and parimal are you said the right thing that maharira has probably been the best that has been done And ideal and many of these states have now subsequently diluted that my question Jays to you and then parimal by to you as a subset of that the first is Can the central government do anything to stop this dilution Of the rara model code that was produced by the center and very well adopted by maharastra See from a legal standpoint obviously parimal by is the best person to talk about it But as far as the construct of the central act is concerned There is no way the state has been kind of given a power to implement Frame the rules and implement But there is no way that the state can dilute for an example that the state cannot come back By way of a rule to say that the existing projects are not subjected to rara because section three of the central act Clearly says that all existing projects where the Completion certificate whether it is an oc or the completion certificate depending on the state is not obtained needs to be registered with There are authorities in the respect of state But this is a huge dilution on that dish Yeah, but if you see the gujrat the original draft there was a kind of A clear cut mentioned that the existing project need not be registered But if you look at the final Regulations, it's clear covers the existing except that some of the areas which are kind of outside the municipal limits Are outside the rara, but the way that they have defined the existing is anyone who is applied for oc Before rara came in I mean I know of buildings which are half complete and they've applied for oc And they're saying if we're outside rara because we were applied for oc See that also again is not going to work And even I would say the when the maharara authority issued some of the clarifications the orders There is a dilution to an extent like I'll give an example that what the maharara has said that while computing the 70% The cost of the land should not be the cost of the land as it is there in the books of account or what is being paid When it was being purchased But you can take the kind of what you call the asr values of 14 2001 similar to like to income tax act And on top of it the clarifications provided that you can do the indexation also Similar to like income tax act and then take the value of the land At a kind of a current value plus the indexation and then that becomes a cost of the project and therefore that enables the developer Yes, it is good for the industry so that the developer is able to kind of Receive the money or withdraw the money out of 70% and put it back into the project The point is that yes, that is a dilution because which is not which is being provided in the central lake and the central lake never talked about this so therefore Possibly there could be a litigation or there could be a pl that could be filed on that front to say that There is a dilution which allows the developer to take away more money out of this whole process Parimal by my and you can add on to this But the other question that I wanted to ask is would there not be p i ls? I mean if I was a consumer in in karnataka or or uttapadesh or or haryana and you know, there have been severe dilution Of the acts. I mean, I'm surprised that why there are no repetitions which have been filed by now And i'm sure that they will come up and The this is the law which permits even representative p i ls can be filed And it can be filed on behalf of the groups and angios can come about I believe the up partly gujarat and rajasthan rules have been Diluting the law very very I have substantially the government of india has taken note of it And they have said that they will try to get it regularized and they will try to standardize these rules And wherever there is such dilution that will not be tolerated is a some sort of a policy policy statement with the spokesperson has spoken of the government of india and I believe that This dilution will not be possible 25 states have come up with the notifications by now And I I'm more than certain that these dilutions will not work because it is not only in respect of ongoing project There have been in so many way that it has been tweaked that that will not be possible because It will have to remain faithful to the act and the basic principle which is going to be take home for you That you cannot have rules which are contrary to the act So it's supposed to be amrela law and in which if you make rules It will have to be faithful to the act and it cannot really go contrary What we call in law ultra virus the act because that will not survive and it will surely be struck down by the gods on challenge And I'm more than certain that it will happen over period of time because this law is first of may 2017 it came pan india And in a state like us with first of august that the rules and really effective mar era has come into play So in another few months that we'll be able to see the results Manish I want to change gears and I want to move into the marketing and you know invariably we've seen a very fancy picture put up You know a very smart looking boy and a girl in that picture If you want to understand with radar coming in You know would the developer need to give the boy and the girl as well? That are there in the picture Well, let me warn you and let me warn everybody else that my views are likely to not just be unique But also heterogeneous to the rest of the group in this case Because of probably the the the industry interface that we go through But let me tell you the three things that I would feel will happen First before I tell you all those three things. I would like to relate Rara with gst But gst not the way you know it Give some time Things are going to change quite a bit and you're going to see that happen and unfold in front of you So the first thing that is going to happen I believe is exactly the opposite probably and i'm I'm speaking from what amit said actually what amit jay said consolidation, which I agree But amit said that 80 percent people will wipe out and I saw some real Discomforted faces out there My my little submission is exactly the opposite 20 percent will phase out But you know what will happen the 80 percent who remain or 70 percent Let's not argue about the number Will all First again get any cool chance and let me explain why sorry first first again get any cool chance So while there was a very clear discrimination between the top end Developers and the others who also ran It'll start all over again and let me explain how it will start all over again What's happening is that the duty of identifying whether a project is good bad ugly Will move from the consumer back to the regulatory Because the regulatory job has already been done Therefore the consumer is no longer in that pat zone which is price amenity and trust Because he was supposed to identify all of the trust himself Now he doesn't have So like many other industries and i'm sorry for comparing but many other industries like tobacco or liquor Where self regulation has taken over When self regulation takes over then the consumer gets more relaxed and is ready to give more chance to people who are newer So what's going to happen is that newer guys are going to get again chance to deliver and to win a trust So that's one one big thing that is going to happen. So I don't believe everybody will go down It's like a ca versus mba exam, you know when you're trying to apply for a ca exam What happens is anybody whoever wants can apply. That's all right This was the state earlier, but an mba is just the two different things It's very difficult to get through in the entrance exam But once you get through you have to be really horrible to not get through becoming mba So it's becoming an mba exam now. So that's the one big change that is happening The second big change that will happen is with self regulation Newer ways of proliferation will happen. So A lot of real estate guys who today talk only price only trust only amenities will move on to newer ways of finding How to talk about themselves? So let me give you an odd example of FMCGs Nobody confuses dove with luxe, right? Love is luxe is luxe is Uh, sorry for that luxe is filmy set arrow co sander is seven And dove is all about trying it yourself and figuring out right very distinct brands You're going to have distinct brands as rara becomes more and more important They're not going to be brands where the advertising is same all you have to replace is the logo That's not going to happen. That's a big change. That's that's expected and self regulation will bring in a huge amount of money here Currently the number of people who ever think of getting into real estate is so small With vis-a-vis mobiles vis-a-vis any other big industry The moment people know that the money is secure Or at least partly secure a lot of people who never wanted to get I think somebody said this also Are are just waiting there to invest in real estate the moment they say that okay Somebody is looking after my interest. I don't have to they're going to get it and boost the confidence Absolutely boost the confidence. So I'm pretty sure in a horizon of about a year to about 36 months We're going to see a very different landscape. We're going to see growth and in particular as He also said that in Maharashtra in particular there is so much of transparency already vis-a-vis all of the states I mean I come from Rajasthan. I can tell you that yes forget the project not being there Even the land may not be there for all you know That is that is going to change quite a bit. So yes marketing world is going to change completely So Manisha, I want to take you back to the first point where you said is that you you may have a tangential view to Amit And you know what and for the purpose of clarity I'll just repeat is that Amit said is that he felt that 70 to 80 percent of the developers over the next 18 months would extinct So so your views you said are different to this is exactly opposite to that Sorry, but see the good part about marketing is newer ways of marketing and evolving Imagine five years ago. Could you sell real estate on digital? You couldn't Today you can target if you have an age story 64 flat project in kandivali You can decide to target only kandivali west people who are looking forward to a two bedroom home Which has three bathrooms specifically looking for it and you can talk only to them and not waste your money And therefore the the guy who doesn't have that much money as the top guys do has equal chance That was never there earlier. So what's happening is rara is not alone Rara is in conjunction with the environmental changes that are happening and advertising in marketing world And that's going to change quite a bit. So those of you who are sitting out here Who are still and I must tell you I feel sorry saying this But I've worked in real estate now enough to call myself also real estate guy But I must tell you that you guys have seen no marketing at all. You guys have seen sales and sales promotions Marketing has yet to come to real estate Brands are yet to be made which outlive projects Right now brands are only about projects. Isn't it largely very few brands are created beyond projects And even if they are brands, they are the they're the corporate brands They are the lodas and the godreges. They're not platina as a brand which becomes Signatory to what platina will always stand for whatever it is a brand today. Sorry. Raja is a brand. Yes, but it's a corporate brand So you expect something of raja But raja doesn't have five different brands which stands for five different promises and therefore there's no proliferation Raja stands for raja Whatever it be, whether it be trust whether it be I've been there for many years Whether it be I've given you things on time, whatever it be You know Nainbhai says that I've always given projects on time and that's his Qualification to where he is right. He's he's always said that right Now There will be brands which will fight and compete in that space of timely possession. There'll be brands which will fight in the space of Fantastic construction quality and so on so forth. So we haven't seen any proliferation at all so far Now we will see and now we will see aided by rara But not only in the environment of rara rara is a is an important But not the only part which is changing everything digital world is changing Newspapers are losing somewhere that that entire thing of what they used to command Response advertising people are moving away from now. They understand that they're to build brands Amit is building a brand right now He's going to speak to you in a few minutes from now and and he's building a brand beyond being a sorry But beyond just being a broker he is building that I can see that I'm his agency So I know it works So there's a lot of change expected and it's all beautiful change. Trust me stay there Tell your if you are employed with any of the developers tell them the story and You know, I'm sure a lot of people are glad to help you Get away from this stumbling block called the rara implementation Depeche you come from one of the most respected You know developers the shapuji palunji real estate group For you rara must be music because it really weeds out some of the flyby night operators With whom, you know, it was becoming difficult for you to compete because the poor consumer was not able to really differentiate shapuji versus lesser known perhaps even unethical brand and Was getting lured towards that whilst you in a position of knowledge and visibility knew that the consumer was being You know taken for a ride But really had inability to advise the consumer So today you must be feeling a lot more lighter A lot more vindicated In the sense to say is that this is the time when I can actually show the power of a brand like shapuji palunji Okay, I'll just start with one you started earlier That looking at 30,000 feet from the ground what happens and I'll come to your question See basically if you see what has rara done today the Real estate market is exactly at the same position was what stock market was in early 90s Just imagine in those days if you have invested Absolutely untransparent market You had so many stock brokers every gali chukka. You'll have some stock broker There was no You could charge 1% brokerage 2% brokerage 3% brokerage Delivery would happen after 14 days 17 days 20 days bad delivery was very common Practically same as illicit just exactly one to one comparison. You see what happened early 90s Sebi came Early some early after then sebi came then any see came Market became transparent more more transparent Brokerages came down and then Delivery was t plus seven then t plus five then t plus three two plus two and all that So there was a guideline for delivery everything came by The same thing exactly is going to have an illicit market The only difference being now this is very important here Sebi made changes of all Demat trading and delivering time over 12 to 15 or 20 years a much longer time Rara has done it in short span So in that during those days the broker had time to react to it and put the systems in place over a period of time Today the time is shortened So what you have seen in stock market in 25 years he will see next five is in real estate So yes, in a way, I agree with him that there will be a lot of people coming out as you have seen in real estate Stockbroking lot of for a lot of people stockbroking is no more viable Because the cost of regulation or margins have come down whatever Now our numbers would be 80% 20% we can always argue that's only a stochastic projection But what I'm trying to say is that the actual number of developers will come down because not going to viable for various seasons The second reason why he's not going to viable for people is because what has Rara done fundamentally It has transformed the entire risk to developer Deliver late developer pace fire contingency developer pace Approval risk developer. He can't pass this to the approval. So all the risks have come to developer Now if I apply a simple finance theory What happens is that if the risk of a business increases the corresponding return on the business has to increase But I'm sure all of you agree the return is not increased So if in a business at a at a 30,000 feet level you see that the risk has increased But the corresponding return is not increased. What's going to happen People are going to go out not for regulation reason, but because financial reasons He's not going to viable because the returns are not so high as it was earlier And your risk have increased at your risk has increased in a way because your legal risk has come much higher today The risk for the buyer is less or for the developers more So I see not only for legal reason, but other reasons also people actually start coming out So now come into your question. What happens with people like Shapoji or has your developer The way the advantage to them is that they can leverage the balance sheet and raise much more debt than what they could earlier Now because the perception risk perception of this business has come down So you have much more kind of different kind of funds that will coming up Other than pure debt fund or whatever kind of funds that will come up I don't know what kind of funds will come up, but a lot of debt funds will come up The challenge for the developer would be to raise equity funds Because there aren't too many equity funds to Justify the risk levels. I think that's the thing we'll have to discover going forward Now for the consumers are you saying what's going to happen? From the marketers, we have to again look at what stock bookers looked in the past in 90s or 80s You had only few Marwari or Gujarati people investing in stock market Just imagine ask a stock board in 80s who would invest You would buy some Vipari in Kapla market or some other stock broker or some businessman who invests in stock market In 25 years what has happened again is going to it is the market is widened whether through mutual fund or other or through insurance products or otherwise The investment in stock market has gone this distributed significantly. Now, that's what won't happen in the real estate We have to widen the base of our investor or our purchaser, which are which we had not earlier thought of So a challenge the challenge for us is to look for new ways or new kind of customers Who are really not investing in real estate and thus expand the market So that's not a job of only Shapoji Banerjee But even smaller investors because people will like to invest 10 lakhs and put in real estate So every stage there's an expansion I would agree completely with you Dipesh I think the market is going to see dimensions of investment in real estate, which it never seen Uh And may I dare to say just like mutual funds happened to this industry later than the direct stops What stops somebody after regulations come in place to invest 9000 rupees in real estate and buy a small little one square feet somewhere And thousands of people doing that So what is going to happen is the consumer profile is going to change from somebody who buys a flat to somebody who invests in real estate And that is not yet seen in a real proper way and that is going to change quite a lot with regulation coming in So all the ill effects of the small term that is that is that we can see right now Will be more than compensated in the long or mid term with many new ways of investment of real estate coming in Which I agree completely So we've covered a lot on the developer side But I wanted to cover three other stakeholders very quickly before I open the floor for questions Um, one is uh, if I can request you to cover Is this act going to impact the government at all the government, uh, agency? It is going to and those in this room feel that They are affected or they are ambushed by this law You must understand that though Maharashtra was a progressive state In first of may 1960 that it was formed and 63 that mofa came into picture mofa is a short form of Maharashtra ownership flight act It never applied to Maharashtra housing board It said categorically that to housing boards it will not apply It will not apply to government agencies. They were sacred cow and they were kept out and mofa was only to beat private developer Private means even in a public sector if there is some private Investment is there whenever the government enter or semi-government body was excluded. They were exempt But rara for the first time daringly says that even if it's a government agency And if it is acting as a promoter, they will also be covered by rara And this is going to put them on a high alert and you can't have inertia and you can't have Neglect the development. Otherwise, you will face the same music which a private developer does So I believe government agencies are also on high alert. They are also going to be affected They have also become promoters. They will also find applications for registration with Mahara And they will be subjected to stand there with you when the complaints are filed and Mahara authority considers The cases for adjudication. They will also be subjected to this law I want to cover the third stakeholder, which is the brokers In there and you know, we've got uh, you know someone in the audience Vinod Thakur who heads the n a r I don't know whether we can pass on the mic because I don't think we're going to be as much capable as he's going to be there To say what is going to happen to that fraternity with With rara coming in given that it is Applicable to brokers as well, isn't it? Of course in in fact, it's a it's a radical change which has come about It has completely I would say that revolutionized this business and I believe that the Uh black sheeps are there in all professions and businesses and that's going to weed out people It's going to be licensed broker situation and you can't have one licensed person acting And I believe that we are going to be very soon at par with uh, you can Europe in which that you've got A whenever you go you feel safe by dealing with people like Vinod Bhai that they are answerable They've they've got offices. They've got address. They've got numbers They are known by their face and they are not fly-by-night operator Otherwise you are feeling unsafe. Can you ever think of don't go by the recent headlines of noida? But otherwise even in deli if you want to buy an office, there is no specific law which prevails It's a rule. It's a law of jungle You are not feeling safe even buying in the heart of deli compromises because there is no legal structure And there are so many advertisements that you are not able to find And for for your information when this law was formed the parliament wanted to know as to where are the where are the number of companies which have been Registered maximum. They said In that deli there is 11,000 to 16,000 companies are registered there, which is higher than bombay and in maharaskar Which I believe is is mind-boggling. So I think uh, Vinod Bhai will throw more light on the subject But bringing real estate agents within the scope of rara is one of the most pioneer work Which has been done by government of india and that's going to help the industry. No wonder they made a film called as ghosla ka ghosla I think a lot of it was really that that that is reflection of what is happening pan india and That is going to change after rara Now I think uh entire realtor broker fraternity is very happy that uh, we are part of rara and uh And our india was the first three years back went to government and said that please include us in rara Because there was no recognition to this fraternity and they are doing excellent job across the country There was no entry. I mean there was no entry barrier. Somebody wants to become a broker just uh print a card and you're a broker There's no qualification add on to that And it is very very important role for somebody if you're giving flat to somebody who is putting entire life's money This is one of the most three important decision for somebody and if you're part of it and if you're doing good I think it's a great moment for all of us. Now. We are getting recognized You know brokers are putting on facebook after registering that now. I am a registered broker So that is a big change coming for the industry the confidence of consumer and the developers because nowadays Developers are also coming up with fantastic projects So it is not only showing the plan and you know project as a consultant You need to study the entire projects what is coming in in terms of structure in terms of amenities Who are the architects? You know international architects coming in so to market and sell that product you really need that extra things which I am sure After being regulated it will help a lot of way and our india is bringing a lot of education and process For the brokers to take them to the next level Only one thing which is really bothering all of us that You know in today's world you are sitting here in mumbai. You do business across the country and globe Now we have to register in every state where we are doing business I think if we can have one license across the country for brokers that will really help the brokers to do business And it will help also developers to sell their product across the country. Thank you Now just to add over here I think this is a I would say evolving journey for the broker fraternity as well Because up till now it was like looked upon as a transaction advisor kind of but now I think what people will look up to the broker's fraternity as a kind of a trusted advisor And even for the developer also it has to be a trusted broker. So it's a long-term relationship if you kind of Cultivate I think that's going to pay off rather than the kind of transaction oriented approach So that's going to be a big change for the broker's community Lastly is the stakeholder is the financial institution And we know that namita. I wanted to ask you is that uh, how would rare are really impact the financial institutions if there is any impact So we know maybe you want to do it I think financial institution will have to rework their financial Economics purely because of the segregation of the money And all financial institution in the past have been lending on the basis of the tangible security underlying security and the cash flows Now today they have to work on the basis of the profitability of the project and what is left after year marking for land and construction cost So earlier because there was a provision based on I have a tangible security I have my cash flow is a scrote to me And if tomorrow there is a problem it is developer's problem and he has to go and Take money from some other lender at a higher cost to pay me Because he has personal guarantee and corporate guarantee and stake that is not going to help out So I think uh belts have to be also tightened by all the financial institutions. They have to go back and rework If there is no money left in the project And there are many cases which are actually floating around which are coming to very repetitive developers today Because people are saying my total receivable is 200 crore My construction cost is 300 crore. And so there's a hundred crore deficit I don't want to be in this business. Can you take over my projects? But who is going to take over a loss making project and that debt The debt lender there has to now rework And he has to go all the beneficiaries or the allotees take two third consent and ask for a change of developer But before that he has to agree to take a haircut. So I think financial institutions who have been very aggressive lenders They have now They are task cut out and they have to rework and tighten the belts and go back to the drawing board and decide how to be in business Just to add to this what happens also is Like he rightly said a lot of that will come back for restructuring So those are assets that will come back first Because the organized financial institutions will really want to churn the asset quickly To say that okay, they'll be seeing pain three months six months nine months down the road Let's restructure quickly. Let's put this on the block before it becomes an npa Get another developer in who takes there might be a haircut from everyone either equity or debt Partially and you will have those projects re-christened out and then brought back into the marketplace because if that doesn't happen Then those projects will see a lot of pain and with rara Even the financial institutions will be partially responsible For having given debt to an asset for development. They should have done the due diligence There are home loans being dispersed to customers. Why didn't you do the due diligence? When you disperse the home loan because you should have seen the risk Unfortunately, what rara is doing is only giving you a certification It doesn't certify and ratify everything that you've submitted there. It could be completely wrong So the speculative nature of the business is dramatically going to change those who are not going to want to Play with speculation will not start those projects So you will see a dramatic supply drop Which is going to be advantages for those who are willing to complete their projects and move on So all of these things will happen simultaneously. We'll have to it'll be interesting times for the next So one word close Before we open it up for a couple of questions from the floor. We know that i'm going to start with you one word close Given whatever we've heard about rara about supply about Consolidation about the way the new System is going to work over the next 18 months Are the prices going to go up from where they are today? Are they going to come down or are they going to remain the same? One word close up down same After 18 months up They will correct correct further It will correct in the next 18 months But I think the the jump or whatever the progression would be far higher after I would say 36 months The prices have nowhere to go except down because I believe And let's not fool ourselves in 18 months They cannot go up though costs will go up and it was one word. So I have to restrict myself to that Bombay housing definitely up Other I cannot comment. I'm an expert on that. Bombay housing definitely up Segmentation some will go up some will go down The more affordable the house the better the chances Great. I mean, this is a great closure From the from the panelists. We were able to get a lot of a lot of truth come from the panelists a lot of candid views And you've you've heard them speak Very happy to pick up a couple of questions. If you've got any please raise your hand Identify yourself. We'll get a mic To you and if you've got any panelists in mind whom you want to specifically ask, please let us know Greetings firstly, I'm obliged to hear from such phenomenal panel. I'm from Eros Group, Delhi and The question is from you all like in this era of Rera and affordable housing both The need of a buyer is going on bit high-five side as far as their amenities are concerned Moreover pan India, I would say that builders are referring to launch any new project Though our stats and studies says that definitely our industry will boom the market in upcoming years But what about the upcoming couple of years? Like will it be more painful for the buyers or the builders Like us who have been in the market from past 70 years So need your views on this. I think is that the last question that I asked really summed that view up Some of the see as far as sir said that What Mumbai it will go up But as far as the pan is concerned pan India New projects were in pipeline before the launch of Rera, but now they are on hold So it's definitely affecting the industry So that's the only question for the couple of years as 18 months was specifically asked by you, sir Okay, so you're saying beyond that is it? Yeah means in 18 months. Will it be more painful for the builders? That's the main question. I thought the majority said yes I think if you are very financially disciplined it depends on the developer If you are financially disciplined if your cost of fund is low If you are you have done your discipline has been intact in each of the project if your number of mistakes So there are so many variables to it that you can't sum up that answer actually If your mistakes are less than the you know, the good steps taken by you or decisions taken by you in the past All that will decide your level of pain I'll just add to it You know what I just start from what he said, you know, what's happened in the past People have always looked at real estate as an investment product only Now when you buy a home, it's not only purely for investment but also for consumption The focus of marketing communication in the past by brokers or anybody was always You have to address the aspirations of consumer A chagar could be as I said different brands will come to different Different positioning will come a chagar. Why is a good community here? Maybe it's good immunity here different positions on I think those kind of matured marketing communication will come up. So people will buy home because they're buying a home There are people for that segment also and not only pure pure investor segment So that kind of segmentation will be required to come up with this 18 months period Just last quick question. I know we've been we've run out of time. Please go ahead. Yeah my question to each one of you is like Because this regulation like if this regulation does not penalize the developer In a manner it should be Because for example recently the there has been substantial delay in the registration But there is no substantial minority So this would be a one more regulation just to comply for rather than just benefiting to the consumer or each of the stakeholder I I think is I I feel is you know, this is like a table and this developer is like a little worm You're taking a sledgehammer and you're hitting it hard and hard and hard until it dies What else do you want here? The poor guy has been sort of Badgered but you know, I don't know why maybe you can add I thought it was very severe already I believe that a lot of order a lot of I would say that A transparency a lot of monitoring has been introduced by rara If you digest this much also according to me this industry is going to have a different different kind of a A new era a new dawn which is going to really rise in pine India And to my mind you must punish proportionately and it has been I believe for centuries It is the experience of humanity that you can't overkill a person So at the same point this industry has to survive to take the punishment because it looks like that Rara has come at a wrong time and therefore its effect has been extremely negative If it had come prior to demonetization, maybe then the life would have been different We would have appreciated it more. It's a monsoon coming at a wrong time in a Diwali coming in a wrong season So this particular law though it has got for everybody something and the builders have also they are unable to appreciate because they say That's where we are stuck. So I think if overall the economy starts moving Then I believe rara we will take it into us right then and the builder community is very innovative Don't worry about it and you don't require me. I'm not questioning the regulation I'm talking about the implementation of that regulation in in a manner. It has to be it depends I'll tell you that some states which will be There will be lobbies working and the I believe that certain group of builders who deserve to be punished They'll probably buy their way through such things will happen Happening all the time in 70 years of India's independence and that may happen But it can't happen for long. It will have to change It will have to come and fall in line with rara and according to me Rara is the way forward and it has to go forward with that Only thing is that people who implement they have to be conscious that it has to be implemented In a reasonable matured manner and where you require the growth of the industry also to be taken into account Just to give you one last line on this if you really want the strict implementation You might have between 70 and 80 percent of the projects that have got registered getting served and noticed by rara To stop every activity till they have sorted out what they've presented and not not delivered So you will have no supply in the market Because you can't sell without rara So they will have to be practical like sir said to make sure that they use the carrot and stick approach to ensure that The Institutional real estate drives itself to the transparency. They want to derive out of the the act over a short term to a medium term Period if they want to do it today, you will stop everything just to add one thing when The narrate cook conference was there and kotham chattaji was very categorical He said that the maharara especially talked about maharara The objective of the law is not to kind of penalize and stop as what He said to kind of stop the activity and that will create a kind of a lot of panic situation But the objective of this rara or maharara is to take this whole I would say the proposition to a logical conclusion that the developers are able to deliver What they have I would say promise to deliver and that's what I think maharara is going to Work towards it and he has also promised that if he has to kind of reach out to the urban ministry Or the housing ministry to kind of bring some changes Then he said that that maharara would be the first one to kind of support that proposition Kind of so penalty forget I think the regulators are not in a mood to penalty But to make sure that the logical conclusion is achieved by this with this we're going to close the panel Thank you very much to the panelist and thank you for a very patient audience Thank you very much Thank you very much if I may please request our panel members to remain on the stage as well And if I may please once again invite mr. Vijay Manout of supreme industries limited to please come on stage To present a token of gratitude to all our panel members I'm going to request you to also join our panel members for a group photograph as well