 Fantastic. And many thanks once again for continuing to hang out with us right here. That was the difference between hanging out, chilling and watching. And it is. Many thanks once again for hanging out with Balsa right here on Why in the Morning. Welcome back. My name is Bayan Sanko and a very good morning to you. If you're joining in just right about now, this is why in the morning and the segment is Monday Politics, where we talk about matters youth and leadership and what else is making or shaping the country political-wise. But first things first, I want you to do yourself. Well, let's do each other a favor. Jump under that hashtag that I said. Why in the morning? Everyone on Facebook, Instagram, including Twitter as well, is at Y2 for 4 channel. Remember on Twitter, on Instagram, that is Y2 for 4 underscore channel. That's where you can find us and you can interact. But we've already posted an interesting question right there and also photos and the question of the day. So I want you to contribute because we'll be sampling your feedback towards the tail end of the programming today. And before we get too far, we have an amazing powerful guest who is joining us live today on our political segment. We're going to talk about matters youth and leadership as well as what is shaping the country political-wise. And he's a very powerful gentleman and I'll tell you a very exclusive detail about him towards the end of the show. He's Davido Gara and he's a very, he comes from a very strong background by the way, very strong. But he's a lawyer. That's the most important part. He's also an advocate of the High Court of Kenya, associate advocate at ABK, advocates LLP. I had to get that right because, you know, KSL community will come for me, Kenya School of Law. But we're from that. Good morning, Davido. Good morning. Nice to meet you after how many years? You told me 14. About 14 years actually. Good Lord. You know, they say Binadam, Binadam, on some of my dilemmas, easy to turn about. Right. You have grown. You have changed a lot of things happen in between. You too, man. You too. Yeah. I always knew you'd be a lawyer, you know. I always knew. Like you went from class prefect. This guy was a very great singer by the way, a very good actor. And then there's something else you're doing. Apart from singing. Compass politics here. Yes, at Cabaran. You were the student leader. Yeah, I was a student leader. I always knew it. Did you always know I'll be a journalist? One year or another. We'll talk about that whole story because this guy is my deskmate slash class prefect. You know, and it's funny, my co-host right is also my classmate, same group, same class, same course. So the universe is trying to tell me something that I don't know. Yeah. The universe is selling me something. But anyway, so we're from that. Good morning. First of all, welcome to my channel. This is why in the morning I'm so happy and excited to have you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Let's get into it straight up. Yesterday, we had the president who was in Naruk at Olintimama Stadium. Of course, he's attending, you know, charge service. And then on the other side, we had our powerful Azimio leader, Raila Dinga, who was also, you know, had something to say. But at the end of the day, you know, a lot of sentiments were like, is it the right time for us to be having all these rallies when maybe we should be, you know, supporting matters to do with, you know, reviving our economy? Of course, the economy has experienced a very savage nosedive. Prices of food items are still low. Things are not so good. And instead of us, like maybe moving forward, I remember they said that calling on to the international body, that is the Commonwealth, and to do an audit of what happened exactly, you know, at IEBC. And of course, there was this Dozier whistleblower situation going on. They say they have more issues and they're yet to actually reveal, you know, what exactly happened like officially in one of the rallies again that they're planning. From a litigant's perspective, what do you feel is going on and what can be done to ensure that we just bring unity and we forget that it happened? Yes. And can we just move on because this is the current government at hand? What can we do now? I think we cannot just look at it from the legal side of it in as much as it also forms part of this. But majorly, this is also political. It is very much political. And the president being the president, he's also a politician away from him being the president. But there is a lot on him in terms of him being the symbol of national unity and many other facets that come with being a president. So right now, talking about whatever is happening in the political field in terms of the opposition, as it is holding rallies during such a time, we can remember that during the Jubilee government, the second leg of the Jubilee government, there were also political rallies going on. So right now, someone would say that probably they're just trying to do that which the current president did before. But at the same time, they're also raising a pertinent question that has been there for some time. And this is about electoral justice. So the question would be, do we have electoral justice? Because this has been there for a very long time in our nation, do we have electoral justice? And another question would be, what entails electoral justice, transparency? The IEBC told us that they conducted the most transparent elections in the history of Kenya. But at the same time, you're seeing that there are a number of commissioners who disputed that which the same commission gave out as results. So what I would say is this, in as much as we already have a judgment from the Supreme Court about the elections, but let us just do an audit for the sake of us moving on because we want to move on, we want to build our nation, and a nation cannot be built if at all we are politicizing every day and night. We have to move on in terms of having agendas that is based on development. So another question would be, who is forming the agenda of the nation? Is it the opposition? Is it the government? Because right now, as a nation, we're having so many issues. Already the government has tried to form agendas. Number one, talking about taxes, the government wants to increase the tax base. That could be an agenda. Another thing is about the education system. Talk about CBC right now. There are so many questions about it. Another thing that the government is trying to shape in terms of agenda is the economy at large in terms of tea, coffee, milk. That is another agenda. So who is going to form the agenda? Is it the opposition talking about electoral justice? Is it the government trying to make sure that it is self-sufficient? Because the president yesterday actually talked about the nation getting to a point where it is self-dependent in terms of having its own financial muscles. So who is going to form the agenda of the nation? Is it the opposition? Is it the government? The solution that I would give is, let us have a dialogue as a nation. As a nation. Not like the two parties coming on the table and having a chat first. As a nation, that includes the opposition and the government. That would be an amicable solution to bring all this mess to an end. There is no any other solution that would be there away from having a dialogue. All right. Now that's a truce. That would be a truce in another format. Certainly. Right. Now what could possibly make this other side agree to have that? Because they've been resolute. They've been firm that they're not going to have any dialogue apart from ensuring that the other side want to retire. And on that note, I remember there is Saitabao Kanchori. You remember him. I think he was as Miu's chief agent during the election. And recently in an interview, he said that he doesn't want the opposition leader to actually contest for elections again. And it seems like that house is a volatile household. Things are not together. Now the issue of them calling for an audit, the Commonwealth, again, they have to receive power from the government at hand. What will they do now? Because these rallies are continuing and they've promised to even have another rally again. Yeah. They have promised to have several rallies actually across the country. I think whatever the leader of Hon. Borrell Odinga said is that I think this week they're going to Kibra. Then the next stop is Machakos, then Nakuru, like the entire nation before they come back to Nairobi. So that means there's an end goal to this. So the question would be, what is the end goal? Is it selfish interest? Is it the interest of the nation at large? So talking about an audit being carried out by independent bodies which are not from within our nation, that is the Commonwealth and the United Nations, this means that there is some transparency that is needed. So we would ask the government, what is the worst that can happen if at all these bodies come and carry out an audit? What's the worst that can happen? And if at all it's the current government that will have to allow that to happen? Yeah, because we are a sovereign nation and we have a government in place. And the government means that we the people we have given our powers to the government to act on our behalf. So, but at the same time the constitution gives the people the sovereignty, you see. So if at all the people are going to demand for this, governments are usually pressured. So if at all the opposition has the numbers in terms of support of the people in the nation, it would be quite easy for the government to give in. Maybe we would say depending on the strength of the president because there are some presidents who are really firm, one would say that our current president Dr. Ruto is firm. So that would kind of depend. But what I would advise the president is look at the bigger picture, moving forward. Do we want to see another political events immediately after elections in 2027? That would be the question. Would we want to have a similar occurrence in 2032 going forward? So when are we going to sit down as a nation and say this is the solution actually? In as much as there's a party that will always lose and some will never agree to it, but the question is, it's not really about the laws, it's about the transparency. Was it transparent enough for everyone to say that yes, in as much as maybe I may contest it, but this is the truth. So the transparency is the question. Yes. So the international bodies coming in, the government will have to consider it because they have the instruments of power, they have the control whatever is there in as much as we have the independent bodies like the IEBC. But of course the government has a hand in it one or another. So they will not just give out the servers. And they must actually control. Yes. Because they are the ones in charge. Exactly. But now the other side is like they can't do that. Exactly. But what we should look at again, what we should look at and I would like to insist on this is that we should have a dialogue as a nation. We should have a dialogue as a nation. The other side. Yes. The dialogue cuts across the political divide. Let all the players sit down. Let us solve this this menace of going back to politics every time immediately after an election because we need to move on as a as a nation every time. Yes. But I don't want to ask that one. I don't want to ask that one. Let me just clear my mind. Now of course the four commissioners have already exited office. We saw Chebukati having his last sitting in the tribunal last week. And then he said in the in the in the in the interrogation he said at some point Rafaal Tuju visited him to you know do some sort of exchange so that they announce elections in favor of the other side. And then yesterday in the Jacaranda rally as a leader said that you know he has a footage and photos he has resets of Chebukati visiting his household demanding for a bribe. Now this again has thrown us into a dilemma like now the other side has receipts and footage. They said the side Chebukati in an interview said he was visited by Rafaal Tuju. He was pushed in fact he was told if he can't announce the other side then they have to abduct him which also the president alluded to it and said there was a premeditated murder plan to actually have Chebukati abducted and murdered. What is going on? Okay Namban I think three commissioners resigned. Then commissioner Irene is the one who went through the tribunal process. We're waiting for for the decision of the tribunal. And now talking about whatever Chebukati said and also whatever Honorable Raila said all these are allegations they're just claims for now they are mere claims unless they are proven unless they are proven. We cannot say that now I'm going to believe whatever Chebukati said or I'm going to believe whatever Raila said. No they have to prove it they have to prove it whatever the president said those are serious allegations. You call them allegations? Yes we call them allegations because we do not have any proof to to it you see. So if at all we are going to believe it we cannot just believe it from someone's word of mouth in as much as he's the president but him being the president he should initiate a process whereby all these allegations are going to be substantiated and all these people should be taken through the legal process so that if they are found culpable let the law take its course against them so that again we should not be looking at such things moving forward because right now one of the most scary positions in our nation is being the chairman of IEBC. Exactly remember I interviewed Senator Mora I think a couple of weeks ago and he told me if you want to die first in Kenya work at the IEBC but why though how safe and how independent is the election body now? Exactly it should not be scary working in an independent commission actually independent commission because the constitution that we have right now it forms the commissions and these commissions are supposed to be independent. Independent means they operate without interference from any other actors in government or from wherever. They must be independent you see so but right now you being a commissioner and worst of all being the chairperson of IEBC it's like you are you are signing your your death sentence it's just the debt that will remain blank. Is it because of vested interest? Certainly because of vested interests here and there because people want to get power and as it is said that power is not given power is taken and one of the ways to take power is to be in control of the commissioners. Okay but right now again if you want to move on as a nation if it is an independent commission let it be independent and how independent will it be will it like act conduct itself what will make it independent one of the things especially for bodies like IEBC is transparency is transparency in as much as in the immediate past elections we saw like we could like add the the votes for ourselves but there are more questions to it. The Supreme Court ruled again as some of the allegations that is it in as much as some people may not agree with it but that is it that is what we go with right now but moving forward we need transparency and this transparency also will emanate from how are we how are we getting these commissioners to these positions right because some people like maybe in the opposition or in the government will try to push people who have their interests in the commission so that their interest can be protected while in the commission right you see so they already have a stronghold yeah they already have a stronghold they already have their pass on in the commission that should not be the case because already chapter six of the constitution talks about integrity right so if I told you do not meet the threshold that is set out in chapter six of the constitution you must not hold any public office in the nation right but already some of these questions which are being asked here and there it raises questions number one as to how are these people vetted before they got into the commission right yes so that is one of the most important things and right now we are talking about amendment of the IEBC act on how commissioners will be selected yes into the commission which is a bond of contention for the other side yes of course that's what they're fighting for they've been very vocal they're saying the current government cannot be the only you know authority in charge of selecting the new you know upcoming election officials which I believe you'd agree that it's it's among one of the main issues that the other side is fighting for true true because if at all I get my people my friends or people who have my interest at heart and I get them to a certain position which is going to decide a certain trajectory for for something of course I will be having an upper hand right okay so in this case it should not be only the government or only the opposition putting a hand into this no it's all hands and deck it should cut across the political divide so that when we are getting to to elections number one all the parties are settled that the people who are conducting these elections right they are neutral right they are neutral or if you guys have selected your your your people to this commission we have selected our people to this commission like it should be both sides it should be both sides right so that there is some sort of equity yes yes exactly right and and and I think we're very we are due for a very short break but when we come back I'd also like you to just shine the light on those those are very highly contested you know our debate about what is it called the 48 48 parties to benefit from the the government funds yeah so we're talking about that and much more so we take a break we come back right about now