 Welcome to the word five NPA everybody is here and everybody who's online. My name is Andy Simon. I am on the word five. NPA steering committee. And we are going to start with a little, little intro that Sam's going to put up for us. So we're going to go to public forum to just give you an idea of what we're about and then we'll go to public forum. So, we have guiding principles. They're pretty self explanatory but we're creating a safe space and a welcoming place for everyone. We're trying to make it. The NPA is accessible to everyone and to minimize barriers for participation from anybody that wants to be part of it. We insist on being respectful to each other and being as part of that being aware of diverse perspectives so if you agree disagree or agree with somebody, we're still going to be respectful to them and sensitive to cultural, racial, economic differences among us because we're all different. We try to make it an interesting place to be vital, fun, creative, and we do not ever as an NPA endorse political candidates. And we try to be fair to everyone. Next slide please. I want to say that we would very much like to have word five NPA steering committee. I want to say that anybody who's here or listening that we would very much like to have more people on this group, and all you have to do is contact us at the website or via also CEDO and the CEDO address or write one of us and say I'm interested, let's talk about it. I think it's going to show up. If he's not here already. Joe Dairy is next to me. Terry Rivers is right here. And Nancy Stetson is sitting back there. So next slide please. People are up on Zoom if you haven't had a Zoom experience. It's hard to believe that you haven't had a Zoom experience over these last few years, but on this mode that we're working with the webinar mode through the city, you can raise your hand. You can mute and unmute. You can start the video if you haven't done that already. This is not a chat function as such. So, we'll just have to do things, take things minute by minute and not, you know, pile things up in a chat. Next please. So this is our agenda for tonight. We're welcoming. Then we have, always have public forum at the beginning. It's a time for you, anybody to say anything that you want to say within the guidelines and guiding principles. And if you have announcements, questions, things that you want to gripe about things that you'd like to bring up for the group to please do. Then we're going to consider a resolution as an NPA to see if we want to send a resolution to the public works commission and the city council and the public works. It's having to do with renaming the roundabout our new roundabout up on Shelburne Road. Tiff Bloomley and Gabrielle Stevens are scheduled to be here at 730 and to talk about what's going on in Montpelier. This is an incredibly short time period that we're giving them to talk about everything that's going on in Montpelier, but we'll start. And maybe we'll continue next, next meeting. Last meeting we did a review of the, the, we did a discussion of the ballot items they hadn't really been formalized yet. This meeting we just wanted to go back through them as they will show up on your ballot when you get it in the next couple of days, so that you can sort of identify sometimes the language is not all that clear. Identify which which are the ballot items and what they correspond to but we don't we're not giving it time for a general discussion we're just going through them. Then we have a candidate for them for the South District City Council. See, there are three candidates Billy Anderson for region's here with us. Joan Shannon who I'm sure will be here as well. And we're giving that 50 minutes or even a little more if we get through, if we get to it sooner. So, I would like to open public forum. This is our, we do have a screen for public forum but all you have to know is that you should identify yourself if you want to speak to your name, where you live sort of inward five not in more five what neighborhood what street. And if you're speaking on behalf of an organization, please say that we're going to limit you to four minutes. And we'll give you a little signal when you're getting near that time. So public forum is open to anyone who's here, yes. Thank you. Yeah, you could sit right up to the microphone that would be great. These microphones just in case you don't know do not project your voice in the room but they do make it so that people who are online or on the recording can hear it hear you well. Thank you. My name is Ilana Blanchard and I live on South Champlain Street, and I'm here tonight. I'm not here as a ward five resident but because I also serve on the Burlington dog task force, which is a temporary committee set up to look examine some of the issues around dog ownership in Burlington and make some recommendations to the mayor and the council. And so, so many has been looking at off leash concerns. There are really only three off leash areas in the city. They get a very high level of use. And, and then there are a lot of off leash dogs throughout the city and very limited enforcement. So, in order to adjust this they've been looking for a potential additional areas that can be off leash. In order to improve dogs well being, but also to provide more opportunities for off leash dogs so that in areas where they should be on leash that can be better enforced and enforced more equitably. And then they are also hoping to have off leash areas that are distributed throughout the city so that people can easily access them from their homes. So, they're looking for feedback from people who live in Burlington people who use Burlington recreation areas and people who have dogs and people who don't have dogs. So, and they will be taking this information and using it to refine their list of proposed off leash areas and make a final presentation. So, and so I have, I have a handout here. Please look in front on front porch forum. There should be postings about it. I think we'll also come back in March and just remind people, but I believe it's closing around March 15. So maybe not this one again. And also look on the Burlington Parks and Recreation website and you should be able to find a link there and on their Facebook page and other places contact me. And I'll just hand this around. Thank you. Elana, who, how was the dog task force constituted? How did you, how did it come to be? Yeah, so I believe that there were some members appointed by the council and then some members. I'm not sure how they were selected. I know Parks and Recreation put out a post on front porch forum, which I responded to so I'm actually represent non dog owners. And I think I'm one of two non dog owners on the task force. You're welcome. Other announcements or questions or concerns for public forum. Carolyn Bates. Okay. I'm unmuted, right? Right. Yeah. Okay. I live at Caroline Street. And I just wanted to talk about a few things. Joe, we'll just putting in what I'm going to do. I'm afraid there's a bath house, like the, the Canadians during across. And that pine street land along. I think it's some sort of bowling alley, small bowling alley. And I'm, I'm very much for both of them. The other thing that's happening is that there's a, our enterprise zone is 4% of the city and 25% of the enterprise zone now has a housing overlay. I believe this is the right thing so that they can add housing to the enterprise zone, which is not allowed at the time. I can't. I'm, I'm very mixed on all of this. It's basically Russ Scully owns the parking lot below the big building on lakeside. I think it's 125. And it goes all the way to Sears Lane because he's picking up the land that used to be the homeless camp. And he, my guess is going to put the housing and, and some building in there. This is a housing or overlay that's not specifically for Russ Scully, but it appears he's the only one on the books in the 25% housing overlay that might build. I'm listening to him talk with Melinda Moulton. He said he wanted to put in less than 500 units. He, to me, has a philosophy that I really agree with and I'd like, and he's done an actually beautiful job at the end of lakeside in the old plant that he now calls Hula. So I'm saying, okay, to, to building the housing and the businesses there. However, we had it zoned for six stories. And now in the housing over as a late they're asking for eight stories. And I've driven around and around around looking at each stories and I've done a lot of drawings and I can say to me, this is, it's not good that we should keep it at six or lower. It just, it's too tall. It's just too tall. It's not a friendly, it's not a friendly space that'll cause a lot of, of shadow and it's not a neighborhood feeling like space. So I looked at all of the buildings I would say more than 50% or one story, probably more like 80%. The innovation center is 65 feet, which is four stories because they're 15, 15 feet each. And then there are a few, a few other buildings there's the Champlain, the old Champlain school I think is maybe four stories, but not as tall. That's everything else. There's a few three story buildings in Lakeside but that's mostly one in two story buildings who is all one story, maybe one and a half. So eight stories is just totally, totally not good. Housing and having rest work down there is totally good. Eight stories is too tall. Thank you. Thank you, Carolyn. So public forum for read. I just have an announcement to make actually an invitation to everybody. Can you, could you say your, say your, my name is for read, I live on Leshmir street. And I am also a volunteer for democracy in action, the group of voters who are organizing to put the petition on the ballot for question seven and question eight. We are holding hosting an event tomorrow. It's a community dinner and discussion. And tomorrow we will be at Robert Miller center in the new North end from 630 to 830 everybody is invited, and also on Saturday we will be hosting the dinner and discussion event at democracy creative on at the soda plan to 66 pine street from seven to nine. There will be free barbecue meal, brisket chicken and vegan option by people's kitchen. And we would love it if all our neighbors could join us to talk about some of the questions surrounding the ballot items. And specifically question seven and question eight, but there's also been discussion about other questions on the ballot. So this is our chance to find out more about this issues and to share your thoughts and ask your questions. Thank you. Thank you. Other items for public forum. All right. And let's move on. We have as a, as a steering committee decided to follow the lead of the ward two three NPA and suggest a resolution for your consideration. As an NPA, the way resolutions work in the NPA, we don't do that very often in this NPA. And what we have in the past, and we propose somebody proposes a resolution for the NPA. If it passes those present by those present. We send it along to the appropriate authorities as an advisory statement. It has no binding authority at all, but it does have the power of the NPA to to make a suggestion. In this case, this is a suggestion to the public works commission in Burlington because they're the appropriate authority for naming streets and other other entities in town. And, and we're also sending it to the city council. Our two city councilors Ben Travers and Joan Shannon have both expressed support for this resolution in email communications. So, and I think it's possible that the city council has already expressed their support at the last meeting I have to, I failed to double check that but we can ask Joan, when, when she shows up as well. So this is the resolution and we have it up on the screen here to community activist former transportation planner and former NPA steering committee member, Tony Reddington he was a steering committee member in board to three NPA passed away this summer. In recognition of Tony's decades of tireless advocacy on behalf of pedestrian and bicycle safety, his commitment to transportation equity, and his years of teaching Burlington residents about the efficiency and elegance of roundabout. The ward five NPA hereby request that the Shelburne Street roundabout be officially designated the Tony Reddington round about discussion on this resolution or questions. Jane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's me. I was, you know, whether there would be anything any informational thing around the roundabout itself, or anything like a little, like a little, I mean, I mean, it's not nice that there could be a something something to something to read about Tony Reddington about Tony Reddington on a site on a sign like you know a memorial or something like, you know, like a little memorial or something, you know, but we'll let we'll let's say is Nate will it say what what will it mean, I mean, will there be that the name of the roundabout anywhere on the roundabout or near it. And it's a suggestion to have an informational sign a little bit informational sign somewhere. Thank you for that suggestion I think it's a great idea I think we're when if the if and when the Public Works Commission does accept this idea of renaming the roundabout or naming the roundabout. Then all of those things have to be considered I think, and and do you have ideas about where it would be good to place. A memorial to Tony or a information. Sign. Anybody. Yeah, now not not. Yeah, not me it had to be have to have to be in a safe place and not and not make people stop their cars. Right. We wouldn't want to stop their cars, but Jane you walk through the roundabout a lot so maybe you could think about where a good place to be to put up a roundabout would be that would be great. And we can, when the Public Works Commission does take this up. It would be good to sort of talk to them and bring them suggestions. I think that's a great idea Jane. Thank you. Sure. We'll do other other discussion about the resolution. They're going to put that sign next to the pet path. I agree with you. No, not in the middle of the road. No, not in the middle. I don't think in the middle would be a very good. I don't know if that came up one word to three proposed this. I don't know. It would probably be up to the public works to decide how to commemorate it. You know, we're just suggesting that that process begin. Right. Definitely support that. What what's people just as a side light what's people's experience been with the roundabout. We love it. It's great thumbs up over here. Yeah. Yeah, I don't see pedestrians using using the push button they just walk across and I guess, anyways, I work. Which, which I guess you don't necessarily, I, um, I, it's, it's, it can be, I mean, I, yeah, I can see that it's. Cars don't always obey, aren't, aren't always, aren't always obeying things either. But, um, but I, but I guess they get, they, they, they, they get, they get, they get honked at and, and so my other cars when the cars when they don't. So, yeah. Have you, have you found it easier to walk across than it was when it was the rotary. I found it. Yeah, I think, I think, I think cars are cars are going slower. That is true. Cars are cars are cars are cars are paying cars are paying more are paying more attention than they, than, than, than, than, than, than they use than they used to. It's good that it's, I mean, that is is wide is wider than it was before. Yeah, I like the way it's, it's stuff. Yeah, it's been, it's been an improvement. Yeah. Yeah. Is there more discussion about the resolution. Reading the roundabout has a nice ring to it. Yeah. Oh, yes. I would just say in every meeting I would never in with him he brought up roundabouts and certainly was a strong advocate for them so it seems entirely appropriate. Yes. Tony Reddington was one of the most ferocious I would say in a way in a, even though he's a very gentle man advocate for roundabouts that I've ever met in my life. Yeah. And, and hopefully this isn't the last roundabout in Burlington, from my point of view, you know, having been converted by Tony to the idea of roundabouts. It definitely seems like it would help a lot of, not just in Burlington I was driving through Shelburne the other day and thinking, boy, a roundabout would sure help this intersection. Other discussion about the resolution or about Tony. We decided that in thinking about how to vote that we didn't really need a secret ballot for this particular resolution sometimes in the past we've had more controversial resolutions and, and wanted to do it on a secret ballot so there's no further discussion I think will ask people online to raise their hands Jane already has her hands raised so you can either do your electronic hand or your actual hand and people in the room to raise your hand if you're in favor of the resolution. All right, thank you. And anybody opposed to the resolution. Anybody abstaining in this vote. It looks like it's passed unanimously, as far as I can see, by the word five NPA and we will send it along to the public Works Commission and the, and the city council thank you. All right, we're ahead of schedule. All right, we could even give you five more minutes. Jeff, and, and Gabrielle, what do you think. Could you fill it up five more minutes. We have our two state representatives to give Loomley and Gabrielle Stevens here to give us an update on what's going on. In Montpelier. Remember to unmute yourselves. Please. And take it away. Gabrielle you want to lead off. Sure, so I'll just give a sort of a quick summary of what I see being talked about in the house. I'm not as. I'm not aware of some of the things that are going on in the Senate, but oftentimes we get pretty absorbed in the house on the work that we're working on. But there's been both in the Education Committee and also in the Agriculture Foods. Forests committee I think there's been a lot of investigation into universal school meals. There has been in the House Commerce Committee, a lot of focus on unemployment insurance provisions, and they're just starting in on a workforce ominous fall bill to start to think about what are the opportunities there. We know that we have not enough people for all of the need in the state. So trying to figure out where to really proactively put scarce resources to make sure that we're connecting the dots between the gaps in workforce with well paying jobs that'll be exciting and interesting for potential workers. Operations I got to say right now I'm pretty happy not to be in there. They're talking about sports wagering and slight tweaks to elections, which is important. They have started taking testimony in terms of some of the news that we've seen about sheriffs and behavior of sheriffs across the state. I should back up that although it is February 16 and we've been there a long time. The first year of the biennium is always a very slow start the first three and a half weeks or so are usually a lot of introductions each committee ends up hearing from all of the you know, divisions within the department so that everybody within the committee has the same grounding point in terms of what the responsibilities are of different entities within state government, what their budget is what they've achieved what they haven't. And so the first year is always a little bit slower to actually start really engaging on some of the bills that people have proposed. The health committee has already passed out of the house health side of things interstate compact updates. This is really important this basically is an agreement or a contract between states to allow for occupational licensed individuals to essentially practice a new state that they may not live in or that when they move to a new state it depends on what the actual compact says, but when they move to a new state you know they can start to practice immediately that sort of thing so going back to the fact that we know that we don't have enough people fulfilling certain jobs we know that mental health is a big one. One of the goals that they passed out is to agree to an interstate compact related to mental health counseling and also related to physical therapists also rated related to speech and audiology services. In my committee we have been talking for the entire time on three bills that passed out of the house last year. One is a little bit of a rinse and repeat, which is, you know, when I woke up the other night I was like, Wow, we are just redoing what we did last year. Some of them didn't make it over to the Senate or didn't get through the Senate in time and some of them were vetoed by the governor. So one is a household hazardous waste bill that we just voted out today at 11, yes, out of 11. And one of the things that we're doing to have, you know, universal support for something that proposes to basically require manufacturers to develop a system to actually dispose of their household hazardous waste in in a way that is, you know, essentially not going to directly tax tax residents which is what the current system is. We are hearing testimony on updating the bottle bill which hasn't been updated in 50 years and we are also hearing testimony on developing a plan to essentially figure out how to prioritize what land in Vermont to preserve and to set up different categories of preservation. Preservation that might involve active management preservation that might involve some management and then preservation that really is just very hands off. And it's challenging 80% of Vermont is privately owned. And it's, it's, as we see, dairy farms close up we can often see those properties. Families can't support the property taxes associated with them, or nobody else wants to go into that family line of business. And the thinking here is as we start to see more climate migration. How do we, how do we identify what is the most important areas in Vermont to preserve. And then how do we always also balance that with making sure that we have the housing that we need because obviously we do not have enough housing. I can say I did not hit on like six committees but I want to pass it to Representative Blumly, because I've been talking a long time and then whatever you don't hit, if I'm happy to sort of fill in from the other committees. That's why you start first, because you are so good at just doing that overview. Thank you. Thank you, NPA members, people who show up for our neighborhood. I just, I, every time I joined one of these meetings, I'm very grateful for all of you. So thank you. So I live a slightly different life. I'm almost never on the floor of the house. I am mostly in my, my committee room, being on appropriations is a kind of a different experience and it really interesting. And yet it doesn't enable me to have the broad overview that Gabrielle does of kind of policy that's moving through committees. But eventually I catch up because all of those policy committees and public agencies and quasi public agencies that have budgets that have to be approved come through our committee and and so I guess what might be most useful for you all to know is that the House and now, as of today, the Senate have passed the Budget Adjustment Act, which is a truing up of the FY23 budget. And given, you know, given changes that have happened over the last half year, the governor's recommended budget adjustment. We largely accepted and included kind of investments in state IT systems and in rural technical assistance so they could access federal COVID relief money. And these revenue forecasts have been unexpectedly higher. The, I'm proud to say that the House Appropriations Committee got very bold, and we added significant money to support mental health in the southern part of the state for youth who have mental health issues and physical issues. $50 million to support new housing construction and extending as probably, you know, in mid-March, all of the emergency housing vouchers were to have ended. And we really didn't have a plan at all for any of the folks who are in the motels or shelters where they were staying. And the House said, no, we cannot do that, and it's in the middle of the winter. And so we made an appropriation to extend the emergency housing program through the spring, through the end of June. So we are going to have to probably compromise somewhat with the Senate. And, but within probably the next week, we will have a budget adjustment, which is great. And I don't think it's going to look too terribly different from what the House passed. So I'm very proud of the House for taking leadership on issues that are really important. And all of us have said are important for a couple of years now. The concerns that I have as I'm reviewing as I as we as a committee are reviewing budgets. There are a lot of vacancy savings in state agencies, they, which, you know, helps with the bottom line but what does it tell us about what is what we're doing to the capacity of those agencies to support the work that they're doing. The second is that governor's budget tends to use one time funding to fund base core functions. Therefore, you don't have a sense of continuity. You know, you can't really build a program if you're always dependent year to year for that one time funding. And, and it doesn't ref, it distorts the true cost of government. So, and then finally there's significant carry forward money that that we're hearing about in different departments, which reflects money that has not gotten out the door that we appropriated for certain purposes, but has not actually been spent. Some, some for reasons that are totally understandable some. I don't know, but we're pursuing those things. I, I've never been through this process before so I can't really tell you what it's going to look like. I think that we've I know that we're working really hard, and we are very much reliant on the policy committees to to look hard at the budgets that the different agencies have put together and to tell us what they think. And we also are then interacting with folks on the state agency side. Anyway, that is really my life right now is is digging deep into numbers and and it's pretty fascinating because numbers do tell you an awful lot about what what's prioritized how well things are functioning. There's always a backstory to numbers so at any rate I did put out on front porch forum today that we are having we're taking testimony twice on the governor's proposed budget. It's open to public testimony and the link to sign up or to submit testimony is on today's front porch forum for those who want to take advantage of it. Anybody have any questions for us. Let's finish up the other committees just to break it up, and then happy to take some questions. Good, I'm sorry. No, no, no. General housing general and housing has been really focused on family and medical leave this has been a priority of the Democratic caucus in the house. It's been an attempt a few years, a biennium ago, or two biennium bienniums ago to also work on this and it did not make it through. So that's been pretty much the bulk of their time I do understand that they have housing bill on their wall that they do plan on picking up and digging into with with some significant depth. This has been working quite a bit on looking into the budget of the departments of disabilities aging and independent living division of children and families Department of Health and other things but I actually need a better update on that committee so I apologize for not having more details because I know they are working on quite a few things. And judiciary actually spent a fair amount of time working on the shield law, which was voted out of the house. Basically what this does is protect Vermont health care providers of reproductive and gender affirming health care services so that they, you know, are protected and can still provide health insurance etc. They've also been looking into eliminating the suspension of draggers licenses as a result of someone not being able to pay fines or fees related to moving violations. So as you might imagine, in a rural state, if you lose your license, because you couldn't actually pay for your fine. That probably just digs you into a deeper hole and makes it harder for you to get to work to actually perhaps ever pay that fine off. So that's an area that they've been digging in as well. And I with that I'll stop. There are other committees but that's sort of the high level of what all the things are that are being discussed and worked on. For now, give it another couple of weeks and it will change. Thank you both for that quick run through we have four more minutes to this item do people have questions for representative bloom Lee and representatives Stevens and or. I actually have one I I've been curious about state support for the Burlington High School. Building I know that there was much discussion last summer and where the last year about finding some state support to help cut down the cost of that has there been any discussion so far in the in the legislature about that. A lot of discussion. Not necessarily within committees at this point. A lot of discussion in terms of coordinating. So, breaking it up meaning figuring out a way to make sure that we're funding the technical center from a regional perspective that's sort of one. It's a large, a large multimillion dollar amount. So breaking it up into discrete areas helps relay the message from different perspectives. So, there's one effort underway to really focus on making sure that the entire region supports the technical center because it really does receive students from the entire region. Certainly that all of the Burlington representatives have signed on to a bill that actually calls for the state of Vermont to pay for all PCB remediation and all public schools across Vermont. Clearly, that is unlikely to happen that they would that the state of Vermont would even have the funds for that. Sort of putting the stake in the ground that this is not a Burlington problem. This is a statewide problem and frankly it's a federal problem. So there is also a third approach, which is reaching out to our federal delegation to elevate this, because as schools start to come to the end of their life and or just simply need construction improvements. That's sort of what happened in a way with Burlington High School of the original bond was not to rebuild an entirely new high school it was to make some renovations. So really looking at this from a more global perspective. Since there are at times a sense that Burlington should be able to figure it out on their own, really looking at this as a statewide challenge. That's my point from what I understand from a discussion last week, about 11% of the schools that have been, sorry, 11% of the public schools have been tested thus far. So we have a lot more schools across the state that are going to be, you know, most likely showing concerning levels of this toxic chemical. So all of that is to say yes, there is quite a bit underway, but given that the budget which is really where this ultimately comes down. Given that the budget is usually the last thing we finally vote on on the very last day in May. There needs to be a marathon, not not a not a short three mile race. So we will keep working on this and what will end up finally seeing you know how much money we get and how it's dispersed. I personally I don't, we have heard promises that there will be something. I don't, I don't know that we can say we know what it will be until we start to see the budget flesh out more. And then I'm starting to get in TIFFS territory. Thank you. Jane your hand is up is it still up from before. No, no, I guess, um, what is your opinion about the proposed anti degradation implementation rule in the Department of Agriculture of agency of natural resources. Do you think it needs to be strengthened. I mean, actually, I'm in a, I'm in a, I'm in a group that wants it that that wants it that wants changes to make to make it to make it to make it stronger and to keep more more chemicals out of out of out of the waters. Have any, or do you, are you going to wait until it until it goes until it goes until it goes to the floor. You may not know anything much about it and that's okay. It doesn't matter. I have, I have heard conversations about this. I do not sit in that committee but Jane I'd be happy. If you want to shoot me in email to my legislative email. It's just juice Stevens at ledge dot state dot vt dot us. I'd be happy to do a little digging because I have heard conversations about this I just don't have a real time update for you. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Gabrielle. We'd love to have you back again soon because I know things are always changing in month earlier and and we want to keep abreast of what's going on so thank you for your for showing up and for the work you're doing. Sure thing. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you all. Thank you so much. I'm going to plug to that to the food that we have here for the people who are here and for the people who are online. Next time, think about coming down here and showing up because we're going to have food every single time. And means you don't have to cook dinner you can just come down here and eat snacks and, in fact, this time people's kitchen brought us much more than snacks Terry brought snacks. We also have vegetable dumplings and cornbread and other things and a good part of them are gluten free so and still delicious, even though they're gluten free so please, please, people who are in the room please feel free to partake and those of you who didn't make it down here. I encourage you to come down in person so that we can feed you. Our next item of the agenda is a quick run through of the ballot items as they are showing up on the ballot. Now that we have that. The language we just wanted to go through the ballot items we only allocated a short period of time for this but one of the things that's confusing about ballot items and especially this year when they're eight of them and they're sort of blockbusters is that, you know, the language is necessarily clear. So, let's just let's just go through them these are the eight ballot items in a list but let's let's go through the actual language and we can sort of look at it on the screen and then try to just identify which thing it is so the first thing is the approval of the school budget which is relatively straightforward. Anybody will have any difficulty identifying what that's about and you have all the information that the school budget school department gave you on in in the ballot item and of course you can get more information on the Burlington school district website. If you want to dig further before you vote. Again ballot should be in your mailbox everybody's mailbox in the next couple of days in the coming couple of days. Let's go to the next one. So ballot item number two is the implementation of a carbon pollution impact fee for new construction and existing large commercial and industrial building 50,000 square feet or larger. So, we didn't actually get to talk about this the last time and we don't really have time to talk about it this time. But this is the city council moving toward trying to reduce the dependence on fossil fuels and and this is their approach to it there for focusing on new construction and large buildings 50,000 square feet or or larger that are when they're building buildings that exist already. And the attempt is to try to encourage people through the collection of a fee to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. There has been some controversy about whether this is the right approach or not, but I think that you can read through we're not going to read every word of it right now, but, but I don't think that's right, but the, the fee would then proceed to the proceeds of the fee would then to move be used to convert the cities of vehicles to electric it says, and a new city fund to support clean heating technology for low income households and renters and or in the case of existing building payers greenhouse gas emissions reduction projects that they're building or facilities in Burlington. So it's moving money that they collect into electrification and support for clean heating technology for low income people. I'll quickly let Darren Springer came in, I think December to, it was in November because I wasn't here. November. Yeah. So, yeah. If you want to look at that recording they did get into some of the, you know, their rationale here, but basically make it, you know, even at the cost of more renewable and traditional style being. That was that was the idea. There's a lot more words around it. Yeah. The city is redistricting. So, every 10 years, every census. There's a mandate to redraw the lines of or reexamine the lines of the wards in Burlington, and try to draw a map that's more equitable in terms of distribution of population. There are guidelines of that. None of the divisions that that we draw can deviate more than 10% from the other ones so there can't be more than a 10% deviation. This is the redistricting that the city council decided on at the after the advisement of the committee and the next slide shows how that affects word five in particular. The ground on this map is is Ward five, and I believe what happened to Ward five is that we lost the, the King Street, the King and Maple, part of the King and Maple neighborhood that right, Nancy, Joan. Nancy draws these maps so. There's so many maps right there are lots of maps so there wasn't a big change in word five to do in any case we're still this this redistricting proposal is continuing with eight wards and four districts. And, and the, the boundaries for word five didn't change a lot but we lost the Bob and mill and part of the King, King, Maple neighborhood. Of course. You want to go up to a mic. Thank you. Sure, so I was just curious, is that still in the south district, like if it's outside of word five. No. It's not in the south district anymore it's not in more five and six which is the south district but thank you for that question. It does change the flavor of our award in our district a little bit. So, then we have question number four is the question of all legal resident voting. So, this is would change the charter of the city of Burlington to allow voters who are legal residents, but not citizens. Not necessarily to vote in local, local elections for school district school board and city council. Mayor and to it doesn't say this in the language of the of the ballot question but correct me if I'm wrong it also means that you could run for these offices. They're not citizens so all legal residents can vote in city elections, and also run for city offices. Number five is voting of polling places. This was a fairly technical item that basically allows the city council and the city clerk's office to site a polling place out for say ward. Or in Ward seven or vice versa. So if there were was a way that you could consolidate polling places and correct me if I'm wrong. It allows that possibility of having a polling place you know that's not in your ward. Correct. Okay. They mentioned, say Edmunds as a centralized polling place that was one of them. Right. That's a good example because there was a lot of discussion about whether we whether Edmunds had to be in Ward six so that they would have a polling place and then stopping polling places both at Edmunds and then right across the street that Memorial, which we did at one point. Thanks. All right, so number six on our ballot is rank choice voting. And we talked about rank choice voting. The last last time rank choice voting for people who don't know is that instead of just having one vote on the ballot, you can have as many as you want. And there was a good thing in our mailboxes from the perk, I guess it was that did a sort of a explanation of it. And with frequently asked questions. So I think you could probably go to the, I don't know for more information go is there information on the city website on this. Does anybody know. Yeah, Nancy says yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and find out if you're confused what rank choice voting really is, then you should go seek out more information about it. It's another way of creating for instance in our since we're already voting on with rank choice voting for city council in our ward, when we have three candidates and you can rank them 123 on the ballot instead of just voting for one. You can also just vote for one. And you can also vote for two. But you can't vote three times for the same person. Even if you want to, because your ballot will be invalidated. All right, let's go on to. Yes, you could. You could vote three times so that they wouldn't have valid is still valid. It's not effectively going to, it's not going to get cast three times, because if you only vote once for that person, it will be cast the same every time. Okay. I don't want people to think that if they did that wrong and they voted for the same person three times, the ballot wouldn't be about. Okay, that's I understood that so thank you for clarifying. I had my hand raised, I had my hand raised about about about number five. I guess you didn't think of it. I mean I have been raising a lawyer. I had a question of whether of how much if you're going to allow people to vote outside of their ward, will this create more a lot more work for the for this for this for the for the for the people running the polling places to try and find to try to find ballots for your for your for your war for you for your for your ward, rather than just rather than just having just handing out ballot ballots for their own is that Well, we happen to have a ward clerk here with us today. Charlie, do you have a comment about that. So I think what would happen is, do you want to come to a microphone. My understanding is that what would happen like if wards two and three as they currently are composed are in separate elementary schools. However, if you do if you were to pass this ordinance you'd be able to put both of them at different points of the community center. So you could have Ward two voting on the second floor of the community center and you can have or three voting on the first floor. That's my understanding of it, and the same thing could happen in wards four and seven. Instead of having it in two separate locations, you could have it at the same location but in different polling places so so the boundary of your polling place would remain integral. You'd still have to have two ward clerks in that scenario and come to completely different polling places in that building. Thank you. Thank you, Charlie. All right, we're going to move on to the last two items on the ballot. The number seven on your ballot, the ballot question seven is the creation of an independent community control board. For the police. This is a long item on your on your ballot, and I encourage you to read it very closely. But, and we did talk about it quite a bit on in our last meeting and there has been discussion on front porch forum and elsewhere. This has been probably the most controversial, I think, ballot item so far and it would make a major change in the in city government and create an independent department that would oversee civilian department that would oversee the police, or would be called in if there was. As it says here, if member of said force is found to become incompetent inefficient or incapable for any cause has been negligent or derelict in their official duty, and is guilty of any misconduct in their private or official life, or for any other just cause. That's the essence of it, the ballot item itself also goes on to talk about the composition of the oversight board, and you should read it very carefully. And as Farid said there, there's opportunities, both pro and con to to discuss these in the in the coming weeks so this is definitely one that that should get talked out and and looked at. Number eight is proposition zero and proposition zero is much more succinct. And it says shall the Charter of the city of Burlington be further amended to grant voters additional powers to by petition initiate non binding ballot questions, binding initiatives proposing ordinances and referring to repealing ordinances provided that in the case of binding initiatives and referenda the city council fails to adopt or repeal the ordinance and issue. So this is the direct democracy. This is a valid question. It's one that for read has worked on very hard the last couple of years, and it is also a rather major change in city government as as constituted right now so I'm sure that we'll talk about it at the candidate forum so I think that I want to move on to that. If anybody else anybody wants to say about any of the ballot items, but I just wanted to be able to, we wanted to be able to see, you know, the order on the ballot and the, and the way that they're written. Again, you should be getting your ballot in the next couple of days. There can be dropped off at drop boxes at city hall there's one at right here in front of this building. There's another one in the north end. And, and you can, if you don't want to do that you can take them to your polling place and bring them in on town meeting day. All right, so we are going to move on to the candidate forum. We have. We put up the slide for that. We have three candidates it all if Billy and Joan and for read if you could come up to the microphones that would be very helpful because otherwise you won't get heard. Joe is going to moderate this section of the meeting. And this is the format and Terry is going to be the timer. And we'll get up to the camera to you'll see that Terry has one minute and 30 seconds. We're even though there's much more to say we're going to try to keep the responses and the introduction and the conclusions short and insights Joe take over. All right, we got this. Good evening. Thanks for coming down. I think I'm going to start with the introduction and then the order that you are on the ballot. We're going to start with three check boxes next to each of your names over here talking about fill in all nine boxes. That was my advice don't fill in all nine boxes. That would be about yeah. So, Billy Anderson, or will as on the ballot. Either way, can I just go ahead with the introduction of course. Well, thank you for having me at the ward five NPA. It's great to be here. I actually live in Ward six. But of course that you know qualifies me to run for the South District. As for why I'm running. I love to find solutions to policy problems. That's what I do for the state government. That's what I, you know, did for a number of nonprofits in Vermont and for the federal government in the past. After working with the progressive party here for a while on their economic and social policy platform. I decided it might be time to give it a go and see if I could bring my ideas to the residents of the south end and the Hill section and see if they would be interested in having me represent them in that way on the city council. So my main ideas have to do with addressing the crunch of affordability that we're facing in the housing market. First and foremost, I think for here in Ward five. What applies to that is my ideas for property tax reform. I don't think that's given the increase in the school budgets, given the increase the school bond vote that those burdens should be put on single family homeowners, and rather should be applied to commercial properties. And to not own or occupied properties, including multifamily homes. Because I believe that in almost every case with exceptions that those property owners have a greater ability to pay the tax and hand in hand with that goes with rent stabilization. A rent stabilization would prevent this increased property tax from being burdened onto tenants, and would also create a safer environment year by year for tenants to rent without facing outside increases. So these are my main ideas, you know, for the housing policy reform. I have many more ideas about, you know, ways that we can bring innovation to our public policy our municipal policy municipal policy in the city council. You can learn about them on my website, w a for BTV dot org. I look forward to going door to door, keep going door to door and meeting more of you and to answering questions here at the NPA. Again, thanks for having me and that should be right about 30 seconds. Thank you. Great. Fareed Menarsa. My name is Fareed. I've been living in Ward five in the five sisters neighborhood for 25 years. I, I initially first got involved in our politics when I was working for an infinite for mayor campaign to that campaign. I come to hear a lot of the issues that people feel like that they are feeling powerless in influencing the decisions that are being made by our political leaders. We also, I initially thought I found a flaw in our system of decision making in the election that brought this current administration into power in 2012. I mean, that's some same election majority, a vast majority of Berlingtonians voted to support government policies that are the benefits the 99% over the profits of the 1%. And they also we also affirm affirmed that people need to come before corporate profits. 10 years later, I feel like the failures to policies is what we are experiencing right now. The systemic inequity actually has worsen, and I believe some fundamental change needs to be instituted in in in how we make decisions as a community. Please check out my website for it m.org. Thank you. All right, Joan Shannon. Thank you. I am Joan Shannon and I'm formerly the ward five city counselor and currently the south district city counselor. I think I know most of you and have had an opportunity over the years to really engage with. I would have to say a majority of the considered constituents in the south district. And I think that my supporters would say to a person that they have disagreed with me. And I guess I'm kind of proud of that that we can have disagreement and that people are still willing to support me because I think that that really. That demonstrates some trust. And I would acknowledge that I am sometimes wrong. And I've disagreed with myself. I really believe in representative government that I certainly do not have the monopoly on good ideas and some of the best ideas that I've been able to move forward on the city council have come from members of the public constituents and the NPA. I am open to working with anyone I have worked with the progressives at times I am the only Democrat voting against my own caucus. I don't see municipal government should not be highly partisan. So, thank you. I had 30 seconds I could keep going but that's okay. Thanks a lot. All right so that our format was thank you for the introductions, we're going to try to get through a couple of questions. We have about half an hour. I'm going to start with a different person each time to see if I can keep track of that. And I'm going to start we did share these questions and we might have time to take a few from the room here but I thought a good one to start with was. What do you consider to be the most important priority for this council in the next two years during this next turn. I think I'll start with for read. I believe the most important issue is to reclaim our democracy. I believe that for participation meaningful participation is very important for us to work as a community. Many people, as you know, don't even come out to vote. They let alone come to a community forum like the NPA where it should be one of the ways we influence decisions are being made that impact our lives. We, as a community are dealing with just like the rest of the communities in this country are dealing with the effect of systemic inequities. And policy failures that are being exacerbated by the inability of regular people to actually influence policies that are being made. We can't police our way out of this crisis. It is the only way to solve systemic inequities connecting system reforms. That includes how we make decisions as a community, but it also needs to address the fact that in this very wealthy country in this very wealthy community we still have people who are hungry every day. We have people who read have to choose between paying rent and getting food or heat and people going through life without having the necessary care that they need. We must address those. Thank you. Joan, do you want to take this question next. I think that there are probably three key issues that I'm really hearing about from constituents. The first is public safety. And I think it's important to acknowledge that public safety is not limited to policing. It's much broader than that policing is a piece of it. And we have been in the process of diversifying policing. A lot of our community members don't feel as safe as they did just a short time ago. And that's having real impacts when people are experiencing both personal crimes and property crimes, you know, people who I'm almost more concerned about the person who has the $100 bike stolen and the $10,000 bike stolen that $10,000 bike is probably insured and the $100 bike that belongs to, you know, my neighbor's child who needs that to go to work. It's critical. And we need to get a handle on that other, I'm running out of time so quickly, certainly housing. People experiencing houselessness in this community is heartbreaking. It needs to be addressed. Also, I hate to say this but we're going to be dealing again with with reassessment probably within that two year time period. And so we're, we're struggling with all of those issues and it's going to be a big issue the redevelopment of the south end innovation district certainly is going to be affecting this area. Thank you. Thanks. All right, I'm going to just the question again real quick was the. Yeah, or you're going to read the question. Okay. I'll read it again because I should have done that the first time or for you, Joan, but hopefully I answered it. You did. You answered some extra priorities as well. So what do you consider be the most important priority for the city over these next two years? Will. I would say, well, although it's difficult. Like Joan for you to narrow it down to one. I would say reforming our strategy for housing policy is the number one. Because, you know, although the public safety issue is critical. My thinking is that if we can address the housing issue at the root, the security and stability that shelter can give people would make really tremendous strides towards helping remedy the public safety concerns without, you know, then I need to increase our police presence and mitigating our need to increase other resources as well. What would this housing policy entail? For one, you know, obviously I'd like to promote, you know, the two measures that I mentioned before, but there's other things that we can be doing as well. I mean, building housing is a big part of it. Obviously increasing the supply is good. But I don't think that we necessarily need to be building affordable housing all the time. After all, it's very difficult to incentivize developers to build something that is not going to bring them a high rent. So I would say we should encourage development of all kinds, be it luxury, be it single family, be it whatever, and then encourage partners like the Champlain Housing Trust to increase our share of social housing. So public housing projects that have not just very low rents, but high rents as well that can help subsidize the lower ones. This model of social housing has been successful in places like Europe and like Canada. And I think that if we shifted in the next few years towards this kind of housing strategy, it would be very successful in the long run in helping remedy the issues of houses that we have, as well as mental health as well as public health, and then eventually public safety as well. So that's what I would call that paradigm shift is what I think is the top priority for me and should be for the entire council. Thanks a lot Billy. So also the second question. I'm going to go with what do you consider to be the most consequential question coming up on this town meeting day ballot and and why. And I guess it would make sense to go back to Jones we don't. Thank you. I can't limit myself to one I think that short term the most consequential ballot question is question seven about the control, the community control of police board and long term the most consequential is number eight, which would allow citizens to put binding among it does three things but the piece of it that concerns me actually is allowing citizens to put binding legislation on the ballot without legislative review and only a cursory legal review. And in circumstances where there's no allowance to actually meaningfully change those those questions and they would become law. And so to question seven the community control board. We're actually making pretty good progress at rebuilding our police department and I have a lot of issues with this not enough time to go through them all, but I feel that support of valid item seven would completely undo the progress that we have been making. The goal is to abolish the police, then it would make sense to vote for it but that is not my goal I think we need our police department I think we need to support our police officers. I also think that we need oversight and there's, there's good reason and room to to change the oversight from what we have and we have done some of that, there's more to be done. But I, I strongly urge people to vote no on seven and on eight. There would be not even there's a lot of problems with seven which which people acknowledge. They say it can be changed in the legislature. That's not true with a if a if the if items are put on the ballot. They become law as as is with number eight. Thanks, Joe. Billy so the question again was, what do you consider to be the most consequential ballot question town meeting date. Sure. I certainly also consider question seven community oversight board of police to be the most consequential initiative, which I think is probably safe to say, whichever way you look at it. But I, in contrast to counsel Shannon and in favor of the initiative. I think it would represent a tremendous strides, not just in Burlington, not just in Vermont but in the whole country. In terms of really striking back against what I see as a real cultural problem in our police force and in our police forces in America, which is that they act with impunity. The police themselves. And regardless of how effective the police department isn't Burlington and I do have a lot of respect for the Burlington Police Department. I think that we need this. I think that the community needs to stand up and say we are going to oversee this force, not just the police chief. And, you know, with regard to the idea that instituting this board would effectively abolish the police. If that is going to happen because all of our officers or majority of our officers are going to resign in response to the creation of the board. Then those are not officers that I want police in the city of Burlington. I would like to have a police force in this city that appreciates the fact that the community oversees it, and is not, you know, undermined by the fact that the community overseas is. Do I think that the initiative is perfect. No, I don't. And there are elements of it that I would have written differently. But overall, I think it would be a great step for our city. I think that we should vote yes and I definitely think it's the most consequential, because it would represent a big stride, not just in Vermont for, you know, a new model of policing and public safety in this country. Great, thanks a lot. So for read, same question. What do you consider to be the most consequential ballot question for town meeting data is here. I think I share the answer of number seven and number eight. Police does not give us public safety police is there to restore public order and in a society like ours in which extreme poverty and extreme luxury coexist side by side enforcing order means sanctioning violence. This order can only be maintained through the implied threat of the use of state violence. I think we are all in this together. Our community is only as strong as the most vulnerable of us far too many of our neighbors lack the security of housing of nutritious food and needed care. And that we need to address those to achieve genuine security for for all of our community. I do think we are dealing with failures in policies using the police instead of addressing the root cause of social inequity. Staying the course is not an option. We need to change and reorient our government to really serve the people we need to put the public back in control of public safety and in public policies. And that is why I think number seven is more consequential long term. This is not something that's never been done before. In fact, we we copied the Winooski Charter and they have additional more robust process that's been outlined. So our goal is to actually have one page of ballot change that people can understand easily. There is definitely legit criticism of the other of any ballot question and I hope that people will keep in mind that the ballot questions that the council generate also have all the same issues that a petition back wants to. Thanks for you. Joe, if the other candidates were up for it. I, I imagine we all have more to say on that topic and wondered if there might be openness to a second round. Number number seven. On the, on the same question that yet talking about the ballot items. Oh, that would be eight. Okay. I think we could circle back to that. So hit one more question to clear the air for a second. And so what I'm going to go with here is going to be pretty different. So, Billy, how could the city council do better in responding to the climate emergency. Great question to very difficult problem and I feel like if I had a great answer then I'd be in a lot better situation. But I think that we should look at the two, the two biggest causes of carbon emissions, not just in Burlington but basically across the entire world which are heating buildings and driving cars. You know, between the two of these, that actually represents something like 85 or 90% of all, all carbon emissions in the United States, for example. So with regard to heating buildings. I think that we should build out more renewable energy resources and use more electric heat. So solar panels, for example, we should be deploying more solar panels, maybe even wind resources in the city of Burlington, because we are getting a lot of our electricity from Quebec. But we're also heating our buildings with gas, which is, you know, now is good for the climate. So if we were able to use more renewably interest to heat our buildings. That would probably be a pretty good stride in terms of the climate issue. And that might be something that we could affect as the city council as for cars. We have to make it so that you don't always have to get a car to go wherever you're looking to go in Burlington beyond. So we should expand access to public transit were possible. That means buses because buses are more efficient. You know, they take up what would be 20 cars with people that can ride in them. If there's opportunities to expand rail access we should take them, although that would certainly be a bigger investment and more difficult bike and pedestrian infrastructure in Burlington is very good relative to other cities, like New England. But if we made it even safer for people to use this mode of transportation might be able to increase the share of people that are using those rather than driving. So very difficult question, something that we need big public policies on a national scale to really have a real change. But I think if we look at the buildings and look at ways to reduce the need to drive cars. These are things we could do as a city council that might be. Thanks a lot. I would like to read on this question. What are how could the city council do better in responding to the climate emergency. I would say I would have a similar answer to my answer before and I'm just gonna keep hammering that they need we need to be more involved in making the decisions people who are most directly impacted by the crisis needs to be included in the conversation. Billy has like mentioned a lot of these good ideas, including converting to electric and possibly subsidizing even some of the transportation that people need. I think we really need to listen to our neighbors and figure out and make sure that anything that we come up with. We take into consideration how it's going to impact people, especially people who are low income and people who don't are not as knowledgeable about the impact of the climate crisis and the impact of the decisions that we'll be making. Thanks a lot. And Joan same question. How could the city council do better in responding to the climate emergency. Thanks. I think Billy did a good job of kind of analyzing the, the two main drivers of of carbon in in Burlington, like every place else are home heating, or heating buildings rather, and transportation on the building front. I think we do a pretty good job of we've we provided a lot of incentives for conversions and I think that we're pushing about as hard as we can on that, given where technology is where the costs are. We're doing a great job with BED in terms of providing sustainable energy. And I know there's some controversy but I will, I will stand by them I think, you know, nothing's perfect and they've done an outstanding job. And transportation I think that we're really lacking and I voted no on the recent elimination of minimum parking requirements. And one of the reasons for that is it was really watered down in terms of what we were requiring of developers. I think the developers should both provide parking not leave it to not leave that cost to individuals who are struggling with where to put their car which is very costly to low income people and low income people do drive and need cars, but also the requirements on developers to provide alternatives to to vehicles to help people get around. I think that car share is a wonderful service that should have been more strongly encouraged in that. I also think our bus service bus service is not controlled just by Burlington people have regional transportation needs and so we need to address that regionally and we need partners outside of Burlington to help people get to where they need to go outside of Burlington because a lot of people have to leave Burlington for their jobs. Thank you. Thanks, John. Right. So, among the ones that we provided earlier. We've hit down the community control board I think pretty well during the most important questions since you, you all pretty much chose that one, in addition to, in addition to question eight. So, I would like to ask about that. What do you know this would be off the off the map now because you requested this basically but, you know, how do you see the ballot question number eight. What are your concerns with the approach of having citizens and you know their signatories bring forward a ballot question. Number eight, there's three elements of number eight one is having access to the ballot for advisory questions and I don't have a problem with that and it's generally what the, what the city does now but there was one case where the city council didn't put that question on the ballot. And I think that that's that's reasonable. And also having a referendum where the public could retract something that the city council has done I also think that's reasonable but there's another element here that allows members of the public to put forward legislation. I disagree that that goes through the same process that it does at the city council when we voted the city council we go through these things with a fine tooth comb before we give our approval, and that does not happen for voters in the voting booth. A good example is looking at question seven, you will have no idea what that community control board really does when you look at your ballot, because you get just a small paragraph, or a couple paragraphs we made it as long as we've ever made anything and I will tell you, you still will have no idea what you're voting on when you look at your ballot. And that's what will happen with number eight, you'll have city council paraphrasing what that legislation really is. And while it is possible to access the you know, six, eight, 12 pages of legislation. That is not a job that the typical voter wants to take on. And I think that representative democracy, you do entrust us with that deep review. And there, there is an ability for the city, the city attorney is really just supposed to look at it for constitutionality and legal issues not policy issues. And even if they find a legal issue they're not allowed to change the meaning of the of the measure. So I don't know how you deal with that if the city attorney thinks there's a constitutional issue. Thanks. All right, I have to apologize because I phrase that question really badly. But I'm still going to ask Farid of a similar similar line but how can how can we address concerns with citizen driven ballot item. I want to remind people of the ballot question and 2019 election proposed charter changes to strengthen and restructure downtown improvement district. I agree with the quote with the concern that counselor Shannon raised about again, this is something that also happens with council generated ballot questions are printed out it's about 15. These are the ID questions about 15 pages long of this legal lease that if this is like the result of you going through with the fine tooth comb, then, and we still can understand it. I don't think it's then it's the criticism of what we came up with is really fair. Prop zero X actually you could fit it in one page. It's been done in every basically every city in Vermont has the mechanism for for citizen initiative voters initiative. And Burlington is only city that doesn't allow that we simply just want to bring our charter up to the standard in Vermont and that is something that's happening already for Vermont. As far as the issue about like something illegal could be could made it, you should read the ballot the ballot question itself actually the provision for lawfulness you can't put something that's against the Vermont Constitution or the United States Constitution and the city attorney will within their power to to to point that out and to to say this is this is unlawful so then it's not really this can't make it on the ballot. Please go to everyone but Burlington that come you can see there how other municipalities charters provision this these powers to their voters and read for yourself. And Billy to remember my phrasing is a question because it isn't written down but I'll take it again. Yeah, how can we address any concerns with the citizen driven ballot initiatives. How can we address any concerns. Well, we have ideas for addressing these concerns. Sure. I mean, I understand the concerns that like counselor Shannon has as voice for example, about potential misunderstandings on the ballot. But, you know, like for it said, we're kind of in that situation already that you know someone could understand, could misunderstand an initiative that's been been placed by the council. I mean, I think it's more valuable to have the direct democracy aspect than to be weighed down by concerns about, you know, people misunderstanding the policy issues what on there, what are on there. I have trust in the citizens of Burlington to be able to make voting decisions. That's why I think that, you know, why I should run for city council is because I think I can convince people to make a good decision for me. And I think that, you know, it's worthwhile enough to bring our charter in line with those others across other cities across Vermont. And that direct democracy is a good thing, and that there's enough protection, you know, but legal protection to this initiative that it's not as big a concern for me with regard to, you know, being confused about what's going on there. And, you know, another concern that's been brought up is that special interest groups, money of interest will be able to use their advantage to bring new ballot initiatives to the table. But frankly, I think that we're, we're in that situation already. I mean, if an interest group wants to get an issue across to the city council, or petition on to the ballot they have the resources to do that. You know, they can, they can make a petition they can make a campaign. I don't see why it shouldn't be even easier to do that. And I think, again, I have trust in the people, people of Burlington. I think they're intelligent people based on what I've, who I've been talking to, who I've met since I've lived here. I think it's good initiative. Thank you. All right, how are we doing on time? We had a good shape. Okay. So I think I can do, I can do one of our original questions again now. So I want to ask. Joan. No, I started you last time. Sorry, I want to ask for read. I don't think I've started. All right, you just went last but okay. Billy, what specific skills and experience do you bring to the job of counselor that would make people want to vote for you. Sure. Well, I haven't held elected office before. But most counselors did not hold elected office before they enjoy the Burlington City Council. And I have somewhat extensive experience in public policy. So right now I work for the State Department of Finance, have been there for not a year for almost a year now. Before that I worked as the representative for the communications union districts which are deploying a broadband internet across rural Vermont. And before that, I worked for USDA rural development at their office in Montpelier, working on rural capacity initiatives, community development initiatives, programming, and that sort of thing. I also have experience in the nonprofit sector, I've been on the board of two nonprofits. And I think that this kind of speaks to the skills them bring to the table. I'm, I'm pretty good at policy analysis at writing and communication. I also used to work as a journalist. And I'm pretty good at understanding financing and budgeting, like the work that I'm doing now. I'm also in graduate school at UVM for public administration, which I guess is not really worth that much but suffice it to say, I am very nerdy about governments and policy and ways that it can improve people's lives. I think that we have a responsibility to use the tools that we have as a democracy to make life better for everyone. And I think that I have skills to be able to do that as a city councilor in Berlin. Great, thanks Billy. Thanks for helping me keep it fair, as you were right about that. So, Joan, same question. What specific skills or experience do you bring to the job of city councilor make us want to vote for you. Well, I've been doing it for a long time, which makes some people want to vote for me and some people want to vote against me, I get it. But I do think I'm tried and I'm tested and I've been a stable force on the city council and I know that that's not necessarily exciting to a lot of people. I have been able to navigate some really, really challenging situations that we've faced, you know, it took us 10 years I think to get out of the Burlington telecom debacle where $17 million of taxpayer money was spent without our knowledge. I think I did a good job of navigating that and that was one of our most difficult issues that we've gone through in recent years I think I have. It's been it's been really hard for everybody I think anybody in public office would tell you that. And I think that I have been able to stand true to myself to my constituents to be introspective. And, and to speak my truth as best that I can, acknowledging that I may be wrong. I have a lot to learn, and I learned by listening to people I disagree with. I learned a lot more by listening to people I disagree with them by listening to the people I agree with. And we all have a tendency to live in our silos. I really try not to do that. And I also, you know, certainly, when I have an opinion, I'm passionate about it. You'll know what that opinion is, and you may vehemently disagree with me, and I will still listen to you, even if I vehemently disagree with you. I think over the course of time, some people who have been very angry with me at some points in time because of that characteristic have kind of come to respect it maybe in part because you can trust what I say is what I mean. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Joan. I'm afraid we've got this question as well. Yeah, I'm just going to read it again just for fun. So what specific skills or experience are you bringing to the job of city counselor that we would want to vote for you. I would be the first to acknowledge that I don't have all the answers or even most of the answers. I think that will probably be more skilled in making policy development. I have been on the receiving and policies. And, and that experience is what drives me to engage in organizing the community, which is what I've been doing and serving my community that way. I feel like I can, I'm good at bringing people together. I actually might my professional training is in it so I can read code and I can feed a crowd. That's what I know, but I also know a lot of really good knowledgeable people and I believe leadership is really not about your technical knowledge, but it's about your ability to listen to people and to bring people together. I feel that many in Burlington, who don't have the privilege of paying attention to local politics or to let alone to run for office have not been heard. And I learned, as I learned, I saw my community through my volunteer work. This is the common theme that people feel like they don't matter anymore. And I do think elections have its place about, we need to make sure that people matter in election so that elections matter to people. And I think that's the understanding that I will be bringing to the job. And, and yeah, and I love this community I want us to survive through this challenging time with our values impact. Thanks. Thank you. So impressed with all your answers. You want to take anything from online you get any chat questions or anything like that that we should look in on or probably should do should wrap it up to our closing statements. Yeah, I don't know if we didn't write down. We did say we give you a couple minutes each for that. Now it now becomes very important what order to use but I'll, I'm going to start actually with Jones I think that's where I'm at right now for a couple minutes to, you know reflect back and close out here. Thanks, I just want to use a few seconds to say that question eight is not something that every town in Vermont has that is. There is an element of that in terms of the advisory questions that that other communities in Vermont do have, but it goes far beyond what other communities have. And even when new ski has limitations on that power that are not in this proposal. I do want to say thank you to the many people who have supported me over the years and especially in the hard times because we've become a very divided community. And that's sad to me and I do appreciate that everybody here is doing this because we love this community. We see things going wrong. We say, you know, Burlington is like this incredible political garden, and in your own garden you see all of the weeds that you don't necessarily see when you go to visit other places and there are so many gardeners in this community that are focused on weeds, those things that are wrong with our community and working very hard at weeding the garden. We may not agree on what the weeds are, but we are all very committed to this garden to making Burlington what we think that Burlington should be. So I appreciate both, both Billy and Fareed for running, because that's what creates the community discussion. I actually, people aren't as interested in in talking with me actually when there isn't when there isn't a race. And so I appreciate this opportunity to engage with voters and to hear more about what's on everybody's mind. Thank you. I think I've get this right. So, Fareed, do you have any closing thoughts. So, I want to let people know that the majority of the city council actually signed our petition for proper season zero, including Ali Jang and Ben Travers. So across party support. Well, it's true that Winooski does have a more robust process. Our hope is actually to address that there's nothing stopping the city council from after knowing that this is what's happening to also put forward their proposed guardrails to the concerns that the council erased. I do think for both this ballot questions, if they if the objections were raised in good faith, the opportunity to have proposed their own version was never closed. We actually had to change for question seven a big way we already had 1000 signatures, and we had to redo from scratch recollect another 1000 signatures and then reach the 2000 limit because of concerns raised. So, what I wanted to say earlier is that so we have this system, but sometimes the whole garden is poison and like it's we need to like we need to come up with address problems at their root. And going that staying the course is going to give us even further into this mess. So, I would like to say that people should really read for themselves I trust people the Burlington voters to know what's best for them. And please come to our community dinner and discussion that will be at democracy creative this Saturday from 7 to 9pm to 66 pine stream. Thank you. Thanks for really any closing thoughts. Yeah, sure. I won't. Although I'm in favor, as I've mentioned, of most of the ballot initiatives include seven and eight. I think that Joan and Virid have really, you know, kind of hit on the main sides of the debate so what I like to say is just that I know that most of you don't know me and I'm, I'm going around door to door to try to change that as best I can. But I have only lived in Burlington for just a little over a year so so I know that that I'm a newcomer but I want to assure you that I will be tireless in representing your voices and hearing what your concerns are and finding ways to bring all those ideas together and bring solutions on the city council. That's what I'm dedicated to doing. I mean, I wake up every morning thinking really thinking what what can I do best to benefit the world today because I think that I've been very blessed in my life. And I think that everyone deserves to have the same opportunities that I have. So provided you have the same kind of idea that, you know, human rights, human housing, you know, health care that these are human rights that we should have an environment that preserves our future going forward, provided you share those general values with me, get in touch with me come to my website, w a for BTB.org, send me an email, I'll give you my phone number. I'm going door to door. Let's talk. I, I'd love to get to know you. I'd like to get to know all of you to know your concerns. If you share these values of human rights, even generally, I think that I can represent you very effectively on the city council. I look forward to meeting you and discussing these issues with you. So thank you again for having me at the NPA. I hope to attend more of these meetings, although I don't live in Ward five, but the Ward six one was very interesting as well. Although certainly a contrast in some ways. So thank you again. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good night everybody. Thanks for joining us at the NPA tonight. And we'll see you again on a third Thursday of next month. And remember to send in your ballot or drop it in a box.