 Next question is from Audrey Smith 19. What are your thoughts on psychedelics? Oh gosh. Oh, yeah, I could tell it Yeah, it seems that that this hasn't been as big of a conversation in our space like it I don't know like it was huge, right? It was like everybody's doing these retreats and and having these like totally Crazy epiphanies that they're coming back with and now of a sudden. It's not as much I think that we You know, okay, I'm gonna speak for us so you guys can correct me if you disagree, but I I feel like for the most part used responsibly We've been pretty pro with the stuff that's coming out around psychedelics now I think that we took a stance early on to not talk about it because we were annoyed Yeah by the fitness space. I feel like, you know, we were what four years ago maybe more when we had Steve and Kotler on the on the show we had Jamie Jamie wheel on the on the show which wrote stealing fire and Rise of Superman which they talk about the use of micro dosing and psychedelics inside there. Yeah So I think we were all very fascinated with the research that's around that and think used in the right Environment can be an incredible tool, but like any other tool can also be abused and what we saw in the fitness space around the same time that we were kind of reading and going through all this is just It became this trendy hip thing to go get high and you know, bang hella girls and do and like get everybody on Psychedelics and trying to to wrap in spiritualism on top of that which that's all we saw But yeah, there's there is a lot of value in them And there's the their powerful tools and it's cool to see what they're doing in terms of like psilocybin and some of the research there where they're actually helping Is brain injuries and in ways to address is things like that and also to treat you know psych You know like psychiatric psychiatric disorders. Yeah. No, it's this the research on psychedelics Continues to come out and it's remarkable, but here's what's very clear They need to be really respected like very very respected. I think because They've been so illegal for so long, which was stupid This was a dumb policy by the US government by the way the US government scheduled drugs Specifically to go after the counterculture targeting the hippies. Yes the 60s and 70s They were counterculture protesting the war It was a big deal and they said how can we throw these people in jail for? Expressing their their liberty of protesting. I know let's make the drugs They use the most illegal so if you look at the scheduling of drugs the worst punishments federally reflect marijuana Mushrooms LSD right which by the way those all tend to be the least Addictive and safest in terms of physical potential effects, right? You know other drugs like cocaine and not can be way more dangerous further down the scheduling But anyway what that did which was terrible the side effect of that is because they were scheduled so illegal There were no studies done on them You had a lot of studies that were done in the 60s early 60s Then they were scheduled as super illegal done And so the problem is in American psyche is we view we viewed psychedelics either as oh my god Super scary or it's no big deal. They're super fun This is what I did when I was a hippie or when I was hanging out and it's this is so wrong They're very so far the research is very clear They're they can be very effective to treat certain Psychiatric disorders depression post traumatic stress disorder so crazy at the stat I believe is like 80 or 90 percent of all right. Yeah, it's crazy after one visit I think yes, but here's the thing. It's done with a Therapist who's an expert in the right environment and the person is being closely monitored These aren't people doing it in the field with their friends or at a rave or at some music festival Because something this powerful that can that can actually potentially help solve post-traumatic stress can also cause it There's been many cases of people giving themselves post-traumatic stress from taking too much mushrooms or acid and It causing problems. So it needs to be respected But the science is remarkable and I've said this early in the podcast. I'll say it again I think that we're gonna see Psychiatric medical breakthroughs in the next, you know, 20 to 30 years that are gonna they're gonna be complete breakthroughs They're gonna blow away anything that we've done in terms of antidepressants or any other treatments It's gonna be crazy now Help me help me understand the science a little bit about this because if I understand this correctly the reason why it's So beneficial for these types of clients is and what happens, right? When you when you when you've had trauma in your life is you can't get away from that trauma He's repeating in your brain repeating in your brain and one of the things that the the psilocybin is known for is to Open up new pathways in the brain. So you make new connections in the brain So is that it's an altered state of consciousness What is happening is it's disrupting this this negative pattern of thinking about the war or thinking about these bad things That traumatic things that have happened and then they take the psilocybin and then it opens up new pathways for them to Physiologically, that's what they seem to see is that the brain starts to rewires what they'll say but Psychologically so far the best explanations that I've heard and in my opinion are let's say you were in war and In war you see terrible things something happened or you did this is where it really gets hard You did something that's terrible that you can't reconcile because you consider yourself a good person You consider yourself honest, then you're in war some kid is running at you with a grenade something terribly blown blown away and now you can't reconcile that and the challenge isn't that you relive it necessarily your head but rather you can't Revisit it to process it. So you you're so I can't think of it I can't reconcile it you avoid it and it causes all these problems. Yeah, and what they're saying psychologically as people will be given either MDMA or psilocybin is that they're this super empathetic state of mind where they can go in relive This terrible thought or this terrible thing that happened Revisit it and process it. They actually find the will to process it through and it can be very challenging But they're able to process it through because when you have unprocessed feelings. That's when shit really gets really hard So that's the best explanation That I've heard so yeah, I mean I had a such a Unique experience with it with with Katrina. So I convinced her at one point to do a microdose with me and You know and the intention was we were we were out at the beach and we were gonna be in nature It's been in the whole entire day together and you know at this point We've been together nine nine or ten years somewhere around there Together so and we have I like to think we have a very good Strong relationship with communication like her and I talk about everything and if there's ever anything going on with one of Us like we don't let it fester. We we talk about it. Whatever and There is there's been something in our relationship that has always been really hard for us to see I don't it's just it's One of those things that we've just kind of agreed like no agreed a disagree type of deal And it's something that's really it's really not that big of a deal It's something the smallest I have this drive for us to to reach a certain place of success financially and Her greatest fear in the relationship was that that will never end for me or that my drive For that is more selfish than it is for us right that it's you know Oh, you have this thing that goes back to your childhood and you just you want things and you don't we'll never you'll never stop You're never gonna be satisfied. That's right. That's right And so that's kind of like her her thing and I've tried to explain it a hundred different ways to get her to understand Me and that no this is not it and how can you say that after all these years? We've been together and every time I tell you I have a plan or this is what I'm trying to do I follow through and then you know I move on from her whatever and we did we had this Incredible breakthrough where I mean she good. She was all emotional and crying and got me all emotional and crying and She looked at me and I'll never forget the look in her face when she looked me in the eyes and said like I understand Like she goes I I understand and I get it now Like I never I could never see it before and it wasn't like she was like oh the shrooms are doing this what that it was We were not even thinking about it. We took a micro dose. It was hours earlier. It's a super intense connection Yeah, we were just yeah, we were just having it open. Yeah, so yeah having a great conversation And we were were sharing all kinds of different things and at that point not even thinking about what we had done hours earlier And then it kind of just led down this pathway and got to a place where and again We didn't do it with like oh, we're gonna talk about our problem Like that wasn't even a conversation anytime recent that we had had that But it naturally surfaced that day and then we went so deep into conversation around it that I felt like we solved Something that is been enough that we have never really saw eye-to-eye in almost 10 years in our relationship And so that for me was I was forever sold on the power of it now that being said I can also I've done it less Then I want to say less than five times definitely less than ten times so somewhere between You know three and seven times at the most I've done it, right? And I think that It's something like anything else that you could easily go down this Addictive even though there doesn't have a dick you can abuse it really you can escape. Yeah use it to escape Well, and it was I it was an incredible experience So you I could see people chasing that experience all the time But like so Katrina's family are big big into like shaman and stuff like that And what they would say about something like that is the real power in these these these drugs is not the actual experience itself But it's the work that you do from the integration. That's right So and what I see a lot of people doing in the fitness space is chasing the experience versus oh my god I had this huge breakthrough now Let me go back and put it put it to work and and work on it work on it in my life versus always kind of Chasing the high. Yeah, that's you know what that reminds me of have you guys ever seen that sculpture? I think it was that burning man years ago. It's a famous sculpture of two Adults the man and a woman and their backs are against each other and you can tell that they're angry and pissed and they're like facing away And then on the inside are like reaching for each other. Yeah, the inside is two children Oh, that's and the two children are trying so hard to touch each other and it reminds me of that Like you have so much built up that When you're trying to talk to your partner that sometimes it takes just to get out of that Just get out of that that space sometimes it means you got to just go somewhere else or you know Maybe take a micro dose of mushrooms who knows but it's like you get out of your own way You know, I mean, otherwise it's like you can't get through long Yeah, and I think that we we we try to analyze all the time like just in I don't know if it's the prefrontal cortex You know we're just always in that sort of state of mind of like, you know rationalizing everything whereas this sort of just like flips the table upside down and it's like Oh, wow, you just kind of think a bit differently see things from a different perspective So I see value in it from that but again, like it's it's a very very powerful tool. You gotta be careful. Awesome