 It's a little too far away from the microphone. So we haven't started yet. We're just prepping to start. Rob, are there microphones on? Okay. Yep. Welcome to the Tuesday, September the seventh meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves. Meredith Crandall staff. Steve Overton member. Steve Everett member. Martha Smirsky member. And Martha is remote. Does Meredith, would you like to review the remote meeting procedures for anybody who is meeting remote? Yeah, I think I'm going to have to just because we are streaming over orca. I know, at this point, Martha, I figure you know what you're doing. Do you want me to recite them? Well, we'll keep this pretty brief. Okay. Okay, so. For anybody looking, watching over orca media. If you get into this meeting and you decide you want to participate, you can do so by using this link here and logging in via the zoom platform. So call in using this phone number and this meeting ID here. If you're trying to log in and you have problems, please email me and I will try and guide you through the process. If anybody does log in via orca using the zoom platform, please know that turning on your video is optional, but through the zoom platform, you'll be able to see everything that we see on the screen as well. I guess I'm going to skip over most of this and just make a note that in the event, I do get emails saying that public is trying to attend and they're unable to the meeting will have to be continued to a time and place certain. If anybody does log in over zoom and pops in that is unexpected, we'll do a little quick rundown as needed on zoom procedures for for interacting. I'm going to now hand this back over to the chair. And just one question for you for any of these highlighted. Okay, I see. Yeah, I did this staff and a where necessary on your recommendation for me. I would like to hear a motion from one of the committee members to approve the agenda. So moved. And I second it. All in favor of the agenda. Martha. Yes. Okay, the agenda is approved. We can go to the first application for 16 Main Street. I'm going to turn it over to the owner applicant city of my pillar review the relocation of the curtain park. And just make sure you're as close as possible to that microphone. Thank you. Hi, everyone, I'm Cameron Neider Meyer. I'm the assistant city manager. And I'm not quite sure what you want me to go over in this, but I'll just brief you on what we're doing. We plan on moving the curtain park. So we're going to take a picture off of the bike path where it's currently located and into the 16 main lot. As you can see by our site plan. It will be near the back of the 16 main lot. We have about a 40 foot setback from the sidewalk and a 10 foot setback from the 22 main location. And we have some feedback from the community that they wanted it further back on the lot and we hope that we've accomplished that. We're not changing anything about the curtain park structure gazebo structure itself, just relocating it to a more open and hopefully welcoming location. There will be some public art going up on 16 Main Street so we're moving towards making that an active park lit in the city. So what information would you like me to review with you. And what changes to the structure merely a relocation. Yes, sir. We are planning on making making sure it's bolted down for per flood recommendations, but I think that's the only change to the structure itself. And Cameron it's going to sit on crushed gravel, is that correct. As far as I understand it that's what DPW's plan is for the relocation yes. Okay. Any of the committee members have any comments questions or suggestions. I'm good. I'm good to. Yes. With someone from the public like to make a comment. Yes. I would like to raise a question of jurisdiction at this point because the parks commission only recently at their last meeting became aware that they are the owner of this park that it is in a park and it's subject to their jurisdiction, and they scheduled it for a meeting upcoming to discuss its use its maintenance problems, and possible other locations. This is kind of a preemptive move the second attempt at a preemptive move to in effect yank it out from under the current users, which I believe is more punitive. It's a gross disproportionate impact upon the current users. I'm not saying I'm supportive of the condition or the way it's been used. But when I say it's a disproportionate impact it's you having a different breakfast cereal in the morning is is a minor impact compared to basically yanking the only safe semi private space where the current users congregate. Yes. Yes. Absent plans to also there were two other plans or proposals made to the city council to apply for grants to do a design. And neither of those was awarded. So, this is not a plan. This is a basically a knee jerk reaction to take it from somewhere and put it somewhere else without a plan around it. Steve, can I'm sorry, can I interrupt you for just one second. Sure. This is an administrative permit, right. And this is design review. So design review committees only jurisdiction is chapter 220 the design review criteria. They're not from what you've said so far nothing you've said so far something they're going to be able to address. So the place to put that is actually in writing to my office because I'm the one who's going to be issuing the actual permit. I'm asking y'all to table it until the parks commission, because of the question of, there's, there's nothing, there's nothing in the zoning regs if you even if you bring that to me for parks commission. There is nothing in the zoning regs that gives me an avenue to go to parks commission review. If the zoning permit to be heard by this commission. And that's then that's by the parks commission saying that they own it they want to move it and where they consider moving it it's premature for this body to be. Then again that's an appeal of my determination that sent it to the design review committee. So you'd need I don't understand an appeal of yours. I made a determination that this application was complete and needed to come to the design review committee. You can either file an appeal of that to the DRB or when I issue the permit you can appeal that whole process to the DRB. I don't have anything in my regs the way I have to process this that sends this application through because it came from the city as the applicant, there's nothing in here that says that it has to be the commission. But they own the property. The city does not own it the parks commission. That's your opinion. Then again that's an appeal. I don't want to argue with you anymore about this. You can continue talking. If the tier wants I just wanted to get out there that your comments so far, nothing you say is design review. And so they're not going to have the power to then go through and push it back. That's on me as the, like, they might call me the permit sure but so talking no you can see your comments I wanted to let you know that I need them in writing. No, I want to hear them but I need them. I, it would help to have them in writing. I'm saying that the committee. So far what you've said, you're telling the girl out of the bank and I just object. Um, no my job is to make sure that we're following the rules. And I'm saying you want to come up to the mic so jurisdiction Trump all else and I don't believe you have jurisdiction to be reviewing this because the parks commission hasn't submitted a proposal of where they want to move it. And they're a duly elected body parallel to and separate from the city council. This is an executive arbitrary capricious action meant to be punitive to the people who are currently using it. Again, I have to take the advice of our. I have to take the advice of our staff advisor that again, we were the only criteria we have is we have an existing structure that's being moved but our design review only addresses. It doesn't address that what your concerns, our purview is only in the design of the structure which is existing, and the fact that it's being moved it's not changing the design of the structure. The location of the use maybe it's separate issue. And again, we, we would move this forward in order for you to address your concerns with Meredith, and then they can be addressed at that point. But at this point that we can't, we don't, we can't really hold it up we have no authority to hold it up based on your concern. You can condition your approval of it on the consent of the parks commission. Again, we're, we're advisory. We can move that on and then the development review board based on an appeal can make that decision, but that's not our decision. The design review committee and even I are very, very limited in what we can condition things on. It's on it can I bring a permit to put something on your property and you're going to say, you just got to review the permit. We approve it. Then any changes that either the park commission or anybody brings forth it's going to have to come back to us. Yeah, and if you're contesting ownership and who signed the application then send me your documentation of that. Because that would mean that the document that the application I have is wrong I haven't seen anything from you and writing about that so if you can send that to me. Then I can look at it because the permit doesn't get issued. Again, again, if you could send whatever you have in the city's work for it. This is even that is your opinion. Thank you for bringing it. It's okay camera. It, it. It's not okay that she continually asserts that my opinion and open meeting and public records law are subservient to her when Stephen I'm asking you both just not to talk to each other because that's not really what this is all about right now. Okay, camera for question for you is the transfer of the property actually taking place. The gazebo is our property as the city. It's just a property but yes, it's been turned over to the to the park commission that we do need to talk to them about it but no it is a city owned lot it's a city owns building yes. City owns the building the city owns a lot. Yes. And the parks commission is aware of this move sir. I don't know if the page Gerton is also not in support of this move prior to alternatives being, she planned to address it with the parks commission. So this is a usurp usurp usurping prerogative of the parks commission and the widow of judge Gerton to whom the park is. In honor of the zoning permit. But let's let's hash that part out. Please, Stephen, I won't be in the office tomorrow but I'll be in the office on Thursday, and I'll be available via email tomorrow. This isn't going to get issued first thing tomorrow morning because I have to actually do an administrative site plan report. I think what I wanted to determine is that right now is the park commission involved. Yes, the parks commission became aware of where the last two meetings they held an emergency meeting over the encamping policy. Over the last two meetings they became aware of this park, its maintenance and its being a park, and that their ownership of it necessitates that they take it up and they scheduled it for their next meeting, which is I believe the day before the next city council business meeting. I think that's a date better than that. Chair, I would like to give some context, I think, because this has become a conversation. We did as the city staff along with page garden and park staff come up with a plan to relocate Gerton park which is what we're trying to do we're trying to make the 16 main lot a parklet. And, you know, it is in our jurisdiction as a city owned property, and we are just looking to make sure that the DRC is comfortable with our move and our plan for this for the building and for the lot. I think the plan that was just referred to is not the plan that page that page Gerton agreed to is not this plan. So, you should know as background that a few weeks ago, this was scheduled to be moved at eight o'clock on a Monday morning by Miss Niedermaier, and folks were prepared to sit in it and prevent it's being moved. They had not applied for a DRB review, they did not have parks commission and they do not still do not have city council permission to move it. So these are all cart before the horse issues that are being done. City Council has voted to ask for grant money to put a plan together, both of those plans have failed those grant applications have failed so there is no plan other than this flimsy sheet of paper, which is not agreed to by anybody. Looking at the criteria. Just make sure you're close to the microphone I don't know. Looking at the criteria that we operate under and our jurisdiction, which is to review plans and either say they meet the criteria or they don't. And I see nothing that impedes any of the rest of this whatever you want to do, Stephen. As a matter of fact, it should expedite things if design review approves this. And if it's changed for whatever process. It comes back. And there's one step out of the way to get done. So I'm going to make a motion that just be approved. Actually, I'm going to run through the criteria. You can then I can do that. This is, this is our review, the range of our review for any of the projects. And again, we don't usually have to deal with any of the zoning issues. Our purview is for the project itself the construction of it. And I'll go through the criteria for new construction. This is really not new construction. It's only being moved. So they were new construction is only concerned with the materials used possess a kind of type that are appropriate to the district materials. At the neighborhood, or reflect the nature and use of the structure. Those are acceptable. It's an existing structure that's previously approved. It's only being moved. The existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use. That's acceptable. Any proposed landscaping shall be compatible with the neighborhood and the site on which the project is located. Acceptable is this is an accessory structure location appearance of all utilities mechanical equipment trash storage and fencing. Shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact for adequately and appropriately screened from public view acceptable. Alterations to buildings call for by public safety accessibility and fire codes shall be designed. Did I forget a non applicable there. Sorry. That's my fault. Yeah, that's not applicable. Sorry. I respect views of the state house dome. That's certainly acceptable. With shape and equipment. Consider similarity or compatibility with rough shapes and immediate areas conceal worth topic equipment. And in this particular case there is none so that's acceptable. The architectural features. Limited to, but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights and tabulated to trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing is acceptable. Yeah, some of that included just because of evaluating the structure's impact on the adjacent buildings. Landscaping screening and site furnishings site furnishings including fencing seating other types of furniture visible from the street or side yards. The landscaping this landscaping obscure undermine the architectural patterns or elements of historic buildings, mechanical equipment screening all of those are acceptable. And they're talking about new buildings criteria. There's stuff in there that kind of applies. I mean, I know it's not new, it's new to this location. So, again, it's an existing building, but in a new location so it really doesn't change the appearance of the structure Excel. No, it's not a historic building. I didn't put those in there. This says construction methods of materials compatible with historic materials and styles, especially in the neighborhood acceptable scale and massing acceptable orientation acceptable continuity of physical elements such as yards fences evergreen masses or building facades acceptable context and connectivity acceptable accessory buildings and structures, and that's acceptable. All in favor of the application is proposed. Raise your hand and sports mirror names. This is Martha I say yes. Okay application. It's, it's, it's late now with a couple of questions. Yeah, of course is anybody else objected to this process, or the actual. No, no, no. Yeah, and this is that we haven't gotten any written comments from anybody in our office on this. So if you come and just sign on the bottom here. And then I do have to do an administrative site plan report and try and get written comments if they're going to have them but. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. You too. Good night. You can go forward to the next application for 34 Berry Street, Washington County Mental Health, addition of building signage. Welcome Jay. Let me know if you want me to share anything on the screen day. Okay, so you guys each everyone has the application before them, correct. Yes. The work had been mostly done on the building itself and they've occupied, but had on. Excuse me, Jay. Can you pull the microphone a little closer to yourself. I just speak up to swallow it. Okay. But had not gone through the design review process for signage, which is what is before you. I think we have a total of 27.32 square feet with an allowable 334. There is a sheet that is a combination of site plan and elevations which you have that shows on the site where these four signs will be located. Relate to the different functions within the building. So there'll be a pair of them that would be on the front facade. And then actually three of them, one of them, there's a directional sign that is repeated. There are two of the directional signs that help people know to which door to go. And then three signs on the west side or Downing Street. Within your packages also a photograph of the existing building as it sits now with having had most most of its architectural work done. I would point out that in the previous application that there was there was an interest on the part of the owner to sort of echo detailing and we had done some banding on both the front and west facade. So you're actually reducing that somewhat to be more be a little bit simplified, which you see in the previous sheet south elevation, basically only two bands on the building, and then portion that wraps around the side to the west. The other work has been been completed. On the west side there were some structural work that needed to be done with some headers within the block and those we ended up sort of accenting and painting so that that with several of the overhangs over the doors we felt was sort of sufficient and didn't add the additional banding there. You have in your packet the exhibits from wood and wood that would be doing the signage so there's an exhibit for each sign. And there there's a color that has been submitted to you for the blue, and then the letters which will be raised are a silver metallic. So both the signage and any of the banding will be applied and fastened at points of mortar rather than into brick. And they will be sort of concealed fasteners that little that sketches here right there is one from wood and wood. That shows how the letter will be attached to the sign itself and then the sign to the building. I didn't hear it. No, it goes into the mortar between. The same with the, the banding, and the banding will be held off with spacer so it's not actually against the building itself. You think those books are big enough to hold it. Let's hope so. I'm going to note and actually mentioned to Meredith there are they had been some customer only parking signs on the building, and they've had some issues and they have left those on it would like to leave them that they're pre existing and I guess are considered sort of directional. I think I might recommend the two of them be removed because they're about where we'd like to place the new signage, but that leave the others to hopefully control parking. A quick overview if you have questions. Be happy to answer. Jay, what material is the sign. The signs are let me look at their detail. If that's a. Indio let me look. Let's see. I'm not seeing on their detail. I know it's a that's a painted raised metallic for the letters the graphics. It's on the bottom one inch thick HD sign foam painted. So that's a high density. It's often used for signage in that it doesn't rot. Okay, and then they use a high quality paints. Thank you. We've worked with Woodenwood for years is probably you guys have and they certainly do a good job. And they would be doing the installation itself. Committee members have any comments questions or suggestions. Not for me. Again, I can go through the criteria for the signs size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the design review. Overlink district should be compatible with the building and structures of the site and surrounding properties. Question. Was there any additional lighting to be added? No, just ambient light that exists. Okay. The appropriate signing show respect the original sign placement and sign bands on historic structures. These signs in this in these locations are acceptable. If a building has multiple tenants, there should be consistency and placement in size, but this is acceptable for the tenant. Is recommended to sign placement to be centered over building entries in this particular location these signs are appropriate. The installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials. Again, the signs are mounted in the mortar joints so that's acceptable in masonry buildings again they specifically suggest fastener so she'll be in the mortar joints which is in the application design, color and typography shall respect historic precedence where appropriate and she'll be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings acceptable. Science support structures should be compatible with the building architecture and must not be overly complex or dominant in and of themselves that's acceptable. Lighting fixtures or signs on facades of extra built a strike building shall not conflict with or damage the building's architectural integrity there's no additional lighting applied for so that's acceptable. Lighting fixtures again none added so that's acceptable. And again at your comment about in the the existing signs may be removed if they're don't serve any more purpose or for your design purposes any existing science may be removed at the discretion of the applicant. Okay, sounds good. All in favor of the application spirit. Yes. And Steve yes. Sign this, so that we are actually meeting in person here. Thank you. I can give you mine. And we can go to the next application for for Langdon street interstate enterprises. There's Churchill. Have a seat. Well, welcome back. Make sure whoever speaking the most is next to the microphone. Yes, we're back. Yes, get really close. We're ready to put a sign. Building and we presented our design. We're going to do a two phase corner sign that you can see from down Langdon streets when you're driving down that way and the other side from the front of the building or even across the bridge. And then one hanging on the existing. On the other side on the street side. The building. You will read the same this way and this way. Yes, it was wrapped around. Okay. That's what I thought, but I just wanted to confirm that. And that, that drawing right there is a little misrepresentative because it looks like it's actually off of the corner. It will actually. It'll be tight to the corner board. Yeah, I don't have a vote, but I like it. Well, they have been planning with our new colors. This is the blue. I thought I gave you a swatch. I'm not sure if I did have the blue, which is extremely close to this one. Extremely close to the one that was in the previous application you said or what's on here on this, this, this picture. Okay. Yeah. Our color on my hand. And to be clear, I think it does stay in there. It's not paint. I'm going to have it cut out with a CNC machine. So the blue you're looking at is actually on the trim. It's cut through the metal. Yeah. Stainless steel will be cut with a laser. This is a curiosity question, but does the building owner have any plans to do any painting of the rest of the trim? We've already started. Yeah, I'm painting. We're painting the whole building. Is that the actual color? It's a close representation of the trim color. The body color is a light gray. Okay. The historical light gray color for the majority of the building, the two four columns, the two, the four columns will be blue and then some stairwell trim and the shutters leave the doorway, but very little trim. The accents really with the blue where the sign is. Yeah, so the two side pieces and then the shutters will be blue, but the rest of it is the historical gray color. So just in terms of the color, I'm not sure if that's the actual color of the blue, but if in looking at the blue color to go with a gray trim, there is actually a color called a Williamsburg blue, which is totally historic since that was several hundred years old that you may want to take a look at that goes really nicely with the gray. We did choose these from the store. Oh, okay. So yeah, it might be, it may actually be that color. Good. And it's nice that your diagram shows that where the sign is located that you can see the trim around the sign, including along the edge here. Right. Yeah, just a little, little thing. My sister works for wood and wood. Oh, okay. She helped design it. Well, that's good. Because one of the criteria is trying not to cover up architectural details and corner boards are important architectural detail. So as long as some of that corner board is exposed along the edge. That's, that's helpful. Yeah, we wanted to use the architecture in a sense. It also helps frame your sign. The nails that you see on the, the signs aren't going to be graphics. I'm going to actually forge bent nails and attach them to be real in a sense. Three dimensions. On the corner when it wraps around one way and then the other wraps around the other way. You may want to seal those so that as they weather, they're not, you don't get rust dripping down. Yeah, I thought of that, but I also, rust is my favorite color. But I do, I do understand. I love to see what nature does to metal. Nice if they look rusty, but you don't want to spoil your sign dripping. So I'm going to, I think I'm going to paint them with a black tractor paint. Like it's been there for years. Any committee members have any additional questions? Oh, I don't know if I mentioned it will be stainless steel so it won't rush the sign itself. Yeah. Okay, good. Much to my chagrin. I have a question, because we were just, we've been kind of tossing the lighting of it. Is this something that if you decide to do the future we have to come back to and yeah. Unless unless you have some ideas to throw around with them where they could approve something but then I would actually need more details on the specific bulbs and lamps and everything to approve the actual permit. Do you have any recommendations for? Do you want to light all the signs or just the one over the front door? I don't want to do the one on, on Elm Street, not a side door sign. No, just, just the bent sign on the, on both Langdon. Basically the river sign. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're thinking a little solar powered, you know, down angled spot something like that. Is there any electricity on the corner available for a sign? Okay, there are existing lights now. You might be able to see in the picture above the window spaces because they had their signs in the windows. So we could technically extend right from that. I don't know if you can blow off the picture on the computer with the front, the front picture of the building, the big picture windows there's a picture windows. Well, this is got your drawing of your new windows over it. She may have deleted those. So anyway, those have downlights on them right now. And so we made delete those and I don't know because we're not going to have signage or painting on the windows. So they actually make a different sizes of a down, downwash, solar light, and based on the exposure of this building, you're in an ideal spot to pick up solar. Yes. I love the idea of not getting any more electric black, a black fixture. Yeah, that has a black solar panel on the top angle. And then a downwash light would be ideal and then you don't have to deal with any electrical issues. If you can find one that's what they're going to put maybe in as an option. Send me a picture I'll need. I'll need details on is like the spec sheet and details on how many, what the lumen output is on the bulb. And that's how I can. And then we'll need details on other exterior lights in the building because there's a And they obviously use LED lighting, but you would want an LED that has a what they call a soft white, which is something 3000 K or less. But that's, that's fairly common to find. Okay, but that would be That would really be ideal because they just not up there and they do, they do have a battery since it's solar and it's rechargeable, but but those batteries are easy to replace every four in the morning. Maybe there's a timer to you can You can get them on the timer so that they'll charge during the day, and they come on a dark and then they'll last for X number of hours. And on a downwash. It's, it's not going to go out into the street or beyond anyway, it'll just downwash downwash the sign itself. I was looking at some little stair ones similar concept I feel like so that's I like that. Yeah, because it's stainless steel we're not going to need a lot of light to light it up. Steve I do have a comment. Is the representation of the color that's on the page here is that a true representation of the blue. It's very close but it's clashing with the actual building color now. It's going to be a light gray so they go really well together. That color just seems really harsh to me. Well, it only is with the yellow and green. It's a horrible combination. I think I know the color that Steve was referring to the Williamsburg color and I would prefer something along those lines. Well, those are just my comments. I would. I would like you to see the gray with it. We can we can show you, you know, body paint with the blue is much easier to look at. You know what the gray is called. Not the top of our head. I just think I could pull up and show. You can get a picture. We could probably get a graphic person to Well, it's also I mean it's the under our current regulations. You can get comments from the DRC on the color but we actually if it's an already painted surface. We can't actually like make conditions about the color, but you can get guidance from them because that's one of the things they're here for. What's the name of Williamsburg Williamsburg color scheme. And it's, it's a dark blue with gray in it. And the other thing you may even want to look at it using it for your sign as well. Because the readability of your sign depends on contrast as much as ties of the lettering the lettering is fine. More contrast you create the more readable the sign is in the Williamsburg blue color. They have it in a palette. Not to recommend any particular kind of paint, but show in Williams and some of the others hit start colors. And the historic Williamsburg blue actually has gray in it which softens it a little gives it a darker color and might be really nicely compatible with your great base that you're going with. And also work with the stainless steel on the projecting sign really well you think. Yes, cool. And that built that's a nice historic building and to paint that and get it looking really nice again using historic colors would really make it pop. A little bit of the gray on already and it's kind of shocking. It says something when great pop. Blue, you can get a gray that looks really nice. The bar was very low. Well it just doesn't pop as much as it makes the building stand out and makes it look period. The building looks period. It has an unintended great. I'm not sure the pain I said oh gosh should we, because I was so afraid of taking away its charm. And that used to be a paint star. Yes, I know. I love that piece of it. I can go through the criteria for the, for the signs. Anybody has any comments or questions before that. Either that or wait till after I go through size location design color texture lighting and material of all exterior design exterior signs within the design review district should be compatible with the building and structures of the site and surrounding properties acceptable. It's appropriate signing shall respect the original sign placement and sign bands on historic structures, the location of these signs is acceptable. The building has multiple tennis so they should shall be consistency there's only one tenant with these signs. Recommended to sign placement be centered over building entries and this particular case, it's more appropriate and there's more room to put them where they are proposed acceptable. Installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials acceptable. Masonry buildings not applicable. Sign design color and typography shall respect historic precedents where appropriate and shall be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings acceptable. Sign support structures shall be compatible with the building architecture and must not be overly complex or dominant acceptable. Lighting fixtures for signs on facades of restrict billing shall not conflict with or damage the building's architectural integrity or cover impact character defining architectural features. Acceptable and what we recommended was a black color downlight watch light fixture preferably solar powered at your discretion, maybe installed over on both sides. Of the corner board signs. Obviously lighting fixtures for signs mounted on all building facade shall be designed with appropriate housing shielding and photometrics to ensure that there's appropriate lighting levels and elimination that focuses on the sign panels exclusively. And again with a downwash that is acceptable. Do I hear a vote from committee members, Martha. Yeah I vote yes with my comments about the color. Okay. And again I just added that they're based on Martha's comment that recommending a blue color ie a dark blue Williamsburg historic colors as much as possible. Even can I ask you one thing about I just to make sure we're on the same page of the light. The solar lights that I'm familiar with the solar panel and then the light but you're saying they make the solar panel is the light. It's one, it's one fixture. Okay, good. And it has a solar panel. It has a flat back, and then the solar panel comes down like this. And then the light, they have in different, different angles but the solar panel comes down in an angle like that and then the light is down below. So this is a sign, the solar panel, the solar panel is up here. And then the light is down here. Yeah, so they're in and with a wire and then the light, I don't like that. No, no, no, this is this is just, I mean, I bought a box of them for I don't know 40 bucks. And I use I use them on a garage. Yeah, and there's a this thing you lift it up and there's a battery it tucks in in the back so it's protected from the weather. And then again the solar panel is like this. And then the light is here and the you combine with different angles. So this is the light here and this is the solar up here. It's just one unit you put the battery in it, squirt the wall, and it slides down and holds it in place. And then, if you remove it to replace a battery every few years. Just pop it off and they, you can get these with a timer they'll actually shut them off at a particular time. It's a non wash it's a soft enough light, you can get it with the right angle here so it's just washing down your son. I'm there. Most of them are either 45 or 60 angle depending on where you are 45 seem to work fine here. Well, summer it's higher winter it's lower. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Good luck. Yeah, if you get me the cut sheet details like find what light you want to use, and email that to me, so that we can get the lumen data and stuff and let me know what other exterior lights on the building I can't remember if there are any. Yeah existing lights because we have to make sure that the building as a whole doesn't issue too much light. Right. So send me that information we may have some of it in the in the file I just don't know how long those lights have been there that are there. And if you, if you want to refer to the lumens you can pick the lumen which is off of a 60 watt LED bulb. And you can use that figure to compare it to because these have the little, the little tiny LEDs have usually their multiples, but the fixture itself will have a set number of lumens and you can compare that to a 60 watt LED. So just send me that information. And because yeah once you throw the lights and we have to do an administrative site plan report. So get me that information and then we'll be able to finish it up. Awesome. Good luck with your project. Okay, is everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from August 16. I'll second it. All in favor raise your hand and or speak your name. Eric. Martha. Yes. Okay. Minutes are approved. Anybody have anything else to add. Meredith left a nice note about design review meeting. Meredith left a nice note about the design about the start preservation commission meeting and our hope to have some design review. People participating. So we do it right. It's useful. Okay. Number 14. Yep, next Tuesday. Yes, week from today. Okay. So we're going to move to the next meeting without any further ado, since our next meeting is Monday, September the 20th. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? I moved to adjourn. All in favor, raise your hand or speak your name. Eric. Steven. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. And Meredith, I'll drop off the packet. Okay. Okay. Bye guys.