 Hello and welcome to exchangeformedia.com. We are here today to celebrate women leaders in the industry for their part making sorry for their part breaking accomplishments and also to learn from them on how as women leaders they are raising the bar and breaking unseen barriers. With me today are three outstanding lady bosses. I first I would first like to welcome Ms. Divya Karani CEO media at Denso India. Hi everyone. Thank you for having me here today. Ms. Preeti Murthy President Group M Nexus. Hi everyone and thank you for having me here. And Ms. Anisha Iyer CEO OMD India. Hi good evening everybody. First of all thank you all three of you for doing this for us and doing on such a short notice and my apologies that I did not plan it much in advance otherwise we could have made it even more exciting with many more of your colleagues also joining us. So you know I would like to start with Divya. You know Divya you've been in this industry for more than two decades. How do you how do you see women leaders bringing in a different perspective when it comes to business especially in media and entertainment domain. Okay so in full disclosure not two almost four decades. Okay I am old and I celebrated. In terms of your question Nazia on how do you the different perspectives that we get to the table. I'm going to start with a rebut. Let us all stop justifying women's necessity to bring different perspectives to the workplace. Let us begin by addressing workplace necessity to have her. And of course the reasons are multiple right right from as simple as a larger talent pool to choose from to engagement trust perspectives innovations XYZ. Our world is changing. Our workplace and personal spaces have become even more closer and the lines are blurred. How can we even begin to have a lopsided representation of society in our workplace. So I am flipping the question and saying that why should and I am 100% sure we do not mean to you know ask women to justify but let's flip it around and let's ask why why does why should the workplace beg for a complete inclusive inclusive talent pool that is what we should talk about and why ever not otherwise it cannot be whole and total. I agree with you and we can definitely talk about that also but I do believe that as women you know when when I see women around me there is a different perspective that they do bring into table you know whenever at whatever things we are I'm I'm all for equality but we are different. There are certain things that we have that men do not have and I'm very proud of that. So from that perspective I wanted to ask you Preeti and Anisha that if you can give an example of certain things that you know and I'm assuming that you particularly would have been one of the first woman you know or maybe the only woman in a in a meeting sometimes you know so what what were the what in how in what ways were you different to look at things then maybe your counterpart other men around you. I'll let Preeti and Anisha take the call and then if I could I will add Preeti would you like to answer that. Yeah because I'm smiling so wide because Divya used to be I mean my super super boss many years two decades ago out of her four decades mine was two decades back right and I've seen her being the only women in the boardroom as well. I don't think Maida I felt so out of place because I think by the time I came into a leadership role there were enough women in the boardroom as well both at the client side and the publisher side and the agency side and so forth. But if I look at the question more narrowly it gets lonely in the sense for women it's little more lesser than maybe the men but somewhere I don't think in a boardroom I'm so conscious about my gender at least I haven't experienced it because it actually it becomes gender and agnostic like Divya mentioned becomes more focused on what you are delivering what's your role and what do you want to do and we've been in many forums where this is brought alive when it's not required right so I just feel that the minute you enter the boardroom then the gender goes away and if it doesn't goes away then it's a force fit of the gender that's how I look at it and that's been my experience I haven't seen the gender become an issue at the boardroom. Anisha I agree I don't I don't see gender as an issue at all and if it is then it's in the in the minds of certain people who I mean good luck to them yeah I mean honestly beyond the point for the ones who are you know so-called in the limelight I mean the three of us are sitting here under under a microscope saying you know please tell me where the disparity is there isn't we don't feel like that I mean I'm fairly sure we don't and you know thanks to a lot of people at least in in my sense the in among most industries that I've seen I think the media industry is slightly better off as compared and I'm not saying advertising I'm saying media is slightly better off as compared to most businesses with respect to meritocracy so you know I guess we pick the right business yeah to thrive maybe that's maybe that's what did it but honestly I mean it doesn't matter to the person in the room because you're in the room for who you are and what you're capable of and not because you're wearing a skirt and not a pair of trousers man I don't I don't see it like that at all so the question was not about whether you feel different when you were there the question was more about how you look at things differently then I don't say I'm say that's exactly what I'm saying we do not I don't look at it but you know we asked this question to a lot of men in the industry when we were doing our women's list series and they all had so much to say that you know you should have got them in the panel yeah okay here if I may if I am going to share all those videos with you they had so much to share that you know how women had a totally different perspective to everything that we do and I'll definitely share that feedback with you now again going back to the because she's just been around for four decades nothing yes if I may interrupt good I when you when you have shared that the men are saying all that they are and they're calling it out they're learning and how that they did right I completely agree with all that Preeti and Anisha have just shared but I'm going to pause and I am taking the liberty of addressing the elephant in the room all my life in all these four decades exactly what Anisha and Preeti called out I was good and great at my job I did not think of myself as a man or woman and I did what I needed to do every year clockwork precision women's day I was told to stand up in our boardroom address the young men and women around the organization and I would go on record saying that look there is no discrimination in our world in advertising in media and we do what we do till a couple of years ago and it's just a few years ago in complete serendipity it's almost like a penny dropped and that year I stood up and I said in the boardroom and I think HR could have may have wanted to throttle me I did admit is there discrimination yes is there discrimination in the industry in society capital yes is it there in our industry capital yes is it there in our organization capital yes the thing is there is both there is conscious and subconscious discrimination and the subconscious is so insidious that it creeps up in you in me in Preeti and in Anisha you know we've got so used to over the years in doing all that we do and a little more that it just happens automatically unless and until you're very very conscious and then you risk the thing of being called a feminist correct so I'll give you one slice of life in the in our boardroom precisely that in our boardroom three of us there in that room and we were talking what and it was an important early morning discussion till one of the men said how let's have a cup of coffee who got up to call the canteen boy now if we were all male I could have well done it but why look at the odds 33 probability the two kept sitting one had suggested I am the one getting up and why because it was an early morning at 30 meeting while walking to the canteen it struck me in slow motion so there is a slice of life for you not that you know I may have been a male and I would have done it fine it's just being courteous but chances are there is an ingrain so that's all that I will put out there so learning from you next time and I or Anisha or Pitya are in this situation we will not get up to get the coffee right you'll say a brilliant idea why don't you do something also Divya you know what I wanted so like you've said that at some conscious level there is a bias that we all have grown up with what are some barriers that you you know which are not visible but like you said like you gave just one example which are some are some other barriers that you have seen and of course I'm hoping I'm very optimistic that in last 20 years they would have reduced you when you would have started they would have been far more than you know when I Anisha or Pitya started so what were these if you can talk about yeah there are some very very real barriers and you know sad I don't know whether to celebrate or be sad about it considering that I've been in this industry for so many years not much has changed it's not as if I experience far more hardship than a Pitya or an Anisha did or you have right so that is both celebration and sadness because not much has moved right the very real thing let me tell you and I myself you know when you're interviewing a female talent versus a male talent the thought that's racing through your mind are very real marriage maternity leave and so on and so forth right and in we are a service industry and the more senior the talent is that gap will have that much more of an impact do you want to practice empathy of course you want to do you want to be you know inclusive of course you want to but it comes at a price then you you think through and the thoughts that race through your mind is however what she brings to the table more than compensates for whatever whatever gap this that but in the in the earlier days I would be I will confess that while interviewing these thoughts would go through my mind now at the same time I have like Preeti like Anisha always you know had huge pride and Preeti will testify to it man woman you're you know as good as what you bring to the table period right and there was this innate confidence that I'm doing right but it's not just practicing equality it's practicing equity and there is a huge difference between equality and equity that is what is the call of the day and practicing equity rigorously holding yourself accountable to that that is what is needed I think it's very difficult to chime after what they have said right so so resonated what she said the experiences at least in the last five years are slightly different in the sense the consciousness about this is much much higher maybe if you're part of a global network there's also a global lingo around there there's a diversity lingo around it but the real challenges of women on the floor largely at the middle level continue to exist so leadership would cross the hurdle right but if you're in a middle manager level and you're going through transitions in life these are real challenges with the male manager or a female manager because it doesn't matter when the manager wants to get the job done they're more worried about how long the person going to be away for six months or is it going to be a you know parental care leave for two months or so on and so forth and that is where I think organizations are matured today to take this as part of transition initiatives for employees more specifically we are more conscious in listening to the women employees at least in group and we've more consciously put around workable solutions for them to make this more meaningful in the transition phases so there is a shift there's definitely a shift there's also a shift because I feel there are more of women leaders like me Anisha Ratty Anita Kottwani Monas Anupriya they were all different they are like for me all my exposes so move them aside yes I'm putting them in a different pedestal but all my peers from my past like Monas and all of us are voicing it also right so there is that you know these conversations where in the packet where internally we used to chat like me and Anisha used to catch up when we were working together talk about it now we're talking about it very freely in the open and we're not we're not vulnerable about it we are not feeling threatened about it we're not having attaching any emotion these are facts we're stating these are changes is changes that needs to happen in a very work period and this is how one should do it each organization each entity is adapting it in a different way and style but this exists now and that transition is visible my interconnect they are your your network went for a bit for a little bit yeah it's it's bad yeah sorry you can continue yeah so my point with these transitions are more visible now because a lot of women leaders are talking about it now and there are more women leaders in the industry to talk about it also I think that fair share has gone up for us to be very vocal about it too so when I took on my earlier avatars in the past I was very vocal about being say a women leader at 40 because at that time it was trending and it was meaningful it was inspiring to many young women to say that it is okay to have a child and take up a leadership role it is okay to have a late child and not being traumatized about it and then take up a leadership role or it's okay to be single and you know go for log on your career and nobody's gonna question about it these are stigmas and tags attached to many of us and I think now we are breaking all those tags and we are making all these that's comfortable conversations and that kind of transitions is what organizations are supporting and enabling today Anisha what's your take on that okay so I'll go back to your original question right you said you said are there barriers that are visible or not visible um I mean having um having and I fully acknowledge Divya's view Pripyi's view there is there are there are more of us than uh you know few of us as opposed to a few years ago but I think it's still far and few um one of the things that we need to do better is create more of us because there are still women who are still uh you know in the seven to nine year or seven to twelve year experience window uh and a lot of them still question um uh you know do I put my career or family uh uh how do I balance things work life balance suddenly becomes a question exist it just is I mean life is just the way it is right so uh there are um we need to do more to instill the sense that we have uh you know amongst men and women both and I think in that context I treat both genders uh uh fairly equally but the sad part I mean that's one good side and you know close to everybody uh championing the cause but on the other side I mean there are real issues like I um may not have been in the recent past but recent enough uh that you would walk into a room with a gentleman and uh the advice uh same advice coming from the gentleman's mouth will suddenly start to get better nods and better eye contact uh as compared to the exact same opinion coming from uh you know a woman in the room and uh regardless of whether I've seen it even where uh the designation might be one up for the lady in the room and one down for the man in the room but somehow you would uh even even when that conversation is ongoing you would look and you would nod better and you would not uh nod when the same opinion informed opinion in my view comes from from the woman and it's it happens more often than you think it does so you know while there is a lot of progress there is also that side to it but the good news is I have learned how to use that to my advantage so the days I know that I am walking to a room where I won't be taken seriously I don't walk only into that and that's fine because uh everyone has has a job to everyone has a role to deliver and uh this is beyond uh capability right this has nothing to do with capability or credibility this is about getting work done and if uh you know a man can get it done better well well done please go get your get my job done for me and then I'm good because then that task can be ticked off so I I think instead of getting annoyed at some of these anecdotal things that happen in your life every day or you know sitting and being all oh I'll do one blog on feminism you know just just use it to your advantage because it just saves you one meeting which is why not uh given our lives so you know why all of us have now spent enough time to pick up some trends so like Preeti said in last five years a lot has changed so do you feel that now this industry or most industries are becoming more and more gender diagnostic those biases are being dropped you know when when we are hiring people uh I remember earlier in my career HR used to ask when do you plan to get married do you have children do you plan to have children these were normal questions that would be asked you know by HR heads you know when they're doing their your routine interview which I think I think have stopped now at least maybe they've stopped asking me so is it have you seen some kind of shift in last few years when you are hiring people not you as in like people around you I mean you will of course be gender agnostic but the higher anybody who knows everything industry which is always short of staff why would we put a gender filter in higher these questions yes so we beyond beyond us now ask our teams they will hire anybody who trespass our clothes now true that look no it okay so the honest answer is it has changed it has gotten better no question um the only thing I would say is uh um subconscious bias still exists um I get annoyed the most when that bias comes from uh from a woman to another woman uh it's probably uh 10 times worse off than a guy having subconscious biases towards women so I think if because I mean it's it's almost like saying I went through that 10 years ago but guess what I'll punish you for that today and that's not fair so uh that's the one thing that I I hope over a period of time and that's also dialed down to I mean it's not it's not as loud as uh it used to be I guess uh but it has dialed down significantly over time but I'm saying honestly media industry within advertising in this country should applaud themselves because they are one of the very very few where they allow merit to win and gender does not play a role I really wish other industries took a page out of our book because we are rocking it as a business and I don't think the others are as well Divya what's your take on that I I love all that Anisha has just said so full mark and I love the fact where there is an acknowledgement and I use it okay so my take yes of course there's gender discrimination yes of course there is an increased awareness acknowledgement and the right speak right and therefore if there is that acknowledgement and the right speak we are making progress no quarrels with that but there is so much ground to be covered so much ground to be covered that it will take sustained much more effort real effort for the facts and figures to substantially move so we are to Anisha's point perhaps a notch or two ahead of the other let's say industries right we have in pockets actually epitomized complete equality and equity but is there more work to be done unequally yes and and and and then the acknowledgement when we say more work to be done words need to be translated into action in at scale that is what I'm calling out at scale across the ranks right so that that's what second acknowledgement of the base effect in this this thing there's so much to cover years and years of bias and I think either Preeti or Anisha mentioned both amongst males and females we ourselves at times are our own worst critiques how often I mean introspection is very healthy but beyond a certain point where we hold ourselves accountable we do not need to so that in itself we carry that and that's part of our upbringing subconscious biases and then lastly I mentioned this earlier all of us males and females not just practicing equality unapologetically practicing equity and and and I'll bring this to life actually years ago and this has got actually nothing to do with gender but years ago I had a team member and fact is that she was her personality over a period of time had become that of a fighter you probed a little deeper and there were very many reasons for it real reasons and therefore when she would ask she would drive herself mad with work she would drive her team mad nobody in the team not many people in the team wanted to work in her team okay she would go and fight with the client also very often I had to step in right and it was all it was and then she would ask for certain leaves and so on at short notice because she had to go and fight some court cases which involved family and all and I would give her leave HR didn't know about it my team thought I was soft on her now I have a I have a descriptor for it at that time I did not know all I was doing is I was not practicing equality I was practicing equity equity so I'm just saying that consciousness if all of us do that that towards particularly towards women it is needed so then there was this call out right now that male or female anybody and I understand that emotion as well guys but what we've done is we've set ourselves a certain mission we've set ourselves metric and in doing the method what we've done is we now give is an apologetic preference to women if the talent is the same there's a prescription that goes out from me to our HR that I would first like to interview women over men because there is so much I need to correct all else being equal so there it is pretty I can't agree more I think interestingly you know as much as I am saying there's a lot of comfortness today in this whole the journey has been different for different people like I had a different journey I think I started coming off age of thinking saying am I getting sideline because of my gender at some point in many points in my career and I think because I was an extroverted vocal person I could bring it out but I think the need of the our is more conscious steps more conscious programs more open forums for us to bring this alive right one of the reasons I took up coaching was not anything else but to coach a lot of upcoming young leaders women leaders specifically to feel unapologetic about wanting that growth and wanting it all or having a career and managing home or just focusing on my career and not worrying about both ways it doesn't matter this initiative is a very small drop in the ocean whatever we are doing today it's a very small drop in the ocean and I'll tell you why Navya and next year you guys at the forum should start playing a bigger role in this don't call only women on women's you know women's daily vision how you said you took videos of all the men please get them into such forums because when they speak they also bring about the change yeah because currently only 25 30 percent of us are wanting the change and making it real the rest are talking about it and moving on because they don't see it as a primary focus for themselves not because they don't want to that's because that's not something which is made visible to them more often than not yeah so I think for and this is I mean this year actually I participated the lowest because I just said are the men in the I always are the men in the panel discussion no but I'm not coming the only reason I came is I have Vivian Anisha here what more lucrative role do I need to play but I think that is where these the magnanimity of the the magnitude of the change has to change it can't be these droplets it's not enough and that gives me a lot of restlessness and if you hear me in the office that what I'm going blah blah blah about all the time saying you know don't make these small changes let's do two things but let's do two big things that can bring about will a track battle do ya way I'm put on a potty pitch all right or put on a speed pitch all right now to fit speed me but a train I'm going for structure change kind of sub could change kind of and that is where big shifts will happen I'm done talking about these small shifts and frankly all the questions are small shifts small change go for it pretty go for it build a plane pretty we all have you know we become very gender-agnostic now so we were doing an event and I remember I contacted Mark Reed's team and Mark Reed agreed to do it and then Mark Reed asked me for other speakers and we had late Mr. Perpettersen we had Adam Gerrard and we had all these very top-level CEOs and global CEOs and APAC and then he suddenly noticed he said there is no women and it's that suddenly stuck to me and I remember going to Divya then you remember Divya you also spoke at that and actually did not occur to me and Mark Reed's team said that if there won't be any women in this event I'll not speak so you know even but that's true you know how do we become gender-agnostic because actually it did not occur to me I was just hiding good people I was I just wanted good speakers so you know it's it's actually a very cash-prety to kind of a situation where when you even want to be gender-agnostic you cannot be because there is there is an existing bias that people look at like even on this panel now Preeti said that there should have been men and which I agree now even I have a second thought that maybe I could have got some men also on this panel to talk about it another question that I wanted to understand is that you know they always say that women are very good at multitasking Divya is a mother Preeti is a mother I know about about both of you so is it that you just imposed on us to be good multitasker because we have to do all of this or do you feel that natural it comes naturally to women to you know handle her house work everything so seamlessly oh god you know I lost my marbles in covid and Isha is laughing because I have talked to her the most you know I've done video calls she was sitting out of I think at that time she moved from Malaysia to Thailand yeah it doesn't come naturally it does not you do it up up to a certain point I think there is a threshold for any human being to multitask there is a threshold and I think thanks to covid and work from whom I have decided to draw my boundaries on multitasking because I'm also running an organization I'm also part of a family so as a family unit we have goals and responsibilities unfortunately I come from a family that understand that gig right so I'm very very fortunate like a lot of young girls come and ask me how do you manage it I keep saying marriage right without the right marriage it becomes a big challenge and same thing I tell for men like if their wife have had kids and or they're working and their ma'am they're going to get back to jobs I'm like please get your wife aligned on both your career goals marriage right it's both sides right and it is it is claimed to be natural I don't think it's natural it's not humanly possible for anybody to be multitasking like that level and it should not do it also I think we should stop trying to justify women's necessity to multitask we should almost give her a chance not to right so I I would almost say that there is no difference in in in this day and age amongst men and women right you particularly when I say this day and age apart from some physical attributes we are both born the same right why should this yoke of multitasking or being a sacrificing mother or being a sacrificing spouse or packing the meal for the household or healthy eating and all why should that yoke only be only be on the woman so therefore let's let's if we want to really celebrate the women in our life the women in our society the women at home give the women a chance to live with complete imperfection completely I will come for an interview with this and I am all right I am good I am mediocre I am not so good it's me right the whole package therefore if that pressure is removed and in that you know often a praise or two or three has inbuilt biases again in there if we realize that I think we'll have done right by ourselves and the larger society that is my bit Anisha how about you how much do you I'll give you a very I'll give you a man empathetic perspective on this one so my my sister is a new mom her husband walks up to office and says for the first three months of my baby's life I will spend four days in office but the fifth day or three days in office and two days I will work from home because I need to double up with her and help bring this child up both of them decided that we will not live in a house with parents we will live in our own place we will bring the child up as a unit because that's how it's supposed to be done we will take turns we'll do our bits both know how to change diapers both know how to feed both knows everything else I mean even though physically my sister can do something and he can't but other than that they figured it out and his conversation with his superiors at office was so what will you do at home that's his job so and and he was mad because he said I don't want to do this I want to do it right because I'm an equal partner I got married and I call myself her partner and therefore I want to do it in a certain way because that's what partnership is so it's not like the men are spared to be honest there are a lot of progressive men today who uh you know want to I think want to do the right I mean to your point on on equity right to want to do the right thing uh because and not because someone's telling them because they they want to do that I think it's just the way they are uh and they face more barriers and more judgments and more a critique than others do and I was amazed when he came back and had a chat about this with us and I said what are you doing finally he said I'll figure you know I'll find a way to keep him happy and figure things out at home also but imagine I mean and he knows this yeah that is the other side Alisha because there is headwind right and he is swimming against the current yeah a lot of I know an of a number of feminists who are males yeah and either their mother I mean their upbringing uh has been one where they've learned it early in life observing their own you know parental role models when they were growing up but it begins early so one of the things I have is to change our future we need to change the present present and and and and to all the parents we need to write from the time a child is born yeah all out we need to ensure that there's equity there and then take it forward that then will you know will auger right and will make it at scale so that you know like your brother-in-law there are many many many more yeah I remember there was a colleague of mine who applied for a paternity break and then everyone when he was on the break everyone was laughing that wow he got such a good excuse to take a break so they could not they could not accept that he would be at home and doing you know things that are required to do when a baby is born they they assume that he must be taking his time off so you know you're all women leaders and you are training a lot of young girls under you what is the kind of narrative you want from here you know going forward you know what do you want them what are a couple of things that you want to tell them to do as they grow in their career not as professionals only but as women professionals one of course I completely agree with Divya that be imperfect you know it's it's time for women to be imperfect what what are some of the other things that you would want young girls to do now I think to be uninhibited you know many a times they don't share what's happening at home or whatever because you know I don't know how my boss will see me or whether I'll get the career program I think being very vulnerable in office is okay and sharing uninhibited these are my challenges this weekend I can't work or you know I will not be available from this time to this time put your boundaries up front absolutely be what you are I think most of us have got these roles and leadership situations is because we are we have pretty much filter less in that sense right we've been we say what we want to say when we want to say because we know that we are true to our work and hence we can say what we want to say and that is the proof of the pudding the work is the proof of the pudding the rest is all noise Divya so this is not only a women's issue it's a society's issue so let's let's admit that we are not responsible for having all the answers right it is all of us collectively that need to address then I would advise them that be very grounded and pragmatic and Anisha called this out and I was saying Baba in my mind right be grounded pragmatic find the support you need to to manage your various roles right because there is that need to manage various roles simultaneously because we simply don't have the resource and the time to address all the roles and we can't do it alone right so admit that and in doing that treaties spoke about it sometimes you may be vulnerable or two you may be imperfect you may have solved and be a genius but sometimes you may not so be human be yourself you are good as you are you have your strengths you have your weaknesses as long as you harness your strength and you cover up for the latter most often if not always I think that relatability will happen and you know that in itself is inspirational because it's real you're not putting on a foisted you know a superwoman thing you're making it real you're making it relatable so I would I would advise that Anisha okay so I'm I don't think it's my place to say that I have a I have a bespoke advice for women to be honest no I'm in that sense I'm very gender neutral in the manner in which I conduct my business so everyone who's in a professional organization or you know responsible for certain deliverables or accountable for a certain role that is all that there is know your job know what you need to do to get better at it if there are areas that you need to figure out for yourself or if someone will help you do that and then it doesn't matter what gender you belong to yeah so chase your goal chase your dream it does not matter I mean I can I can say this as somebody who's who's not a parent who's divorced on this panel right now and I'm doing well in my career and I'm not I'm not saying this with any regret and not that I I took decisions about my career at the cost of something else it's not even that and it's okay you know so there is there's on you have a pretty who's on one side and there's me on the other side if you look at us personally we're very very different backgrounds in that sense but as people with the same we're exactly the same it's actually really scary how similar we are but but so what and and my my conversations with anyone I mean if anyone who knows me if you speak to them I'll say the exact same thing that it's your capability your ambition your hustle to get to where you want to be and then it doesn't matter whether you know you are and you could be totally happy not being overly successful and that's okay too because that's the choice you made you know I mean I'm I'm at home bringing up a family and I have a boutique on the side as long as you're happy and there's someone else who's saying I'm running a company and they're happy good for them so you know these labels have to go away and the labels have to go away from men also I think I think we're sometimes it's unfair on the other side as well and it has to be I mean if we're talking about equity then it has to be the same everywhere and now there aren't just two genders there are a few more you know that we have to acknowledge and and give respect to and that's fine so you are a person on this planet you are supposed to be the the better creature that God created amongst everything else you have brains and you know make use of it yeah and make choices for yourself those are sabbatical you're not answerable to anybody do it for yourself and move on so yeah I mean my my advice to anybody doesn't change because of their gender pick pick a pick a goal run towards it achieve it pick the next one run towards it achieve it pick the next one that is like so Nazia I just like to a table one more fact you asked us to share real experiences I need to share and this is particularly to Preeti and Anisha as well as all the viewers there there was a time where often when you know you'd get recognized in a women panel or a women award and so on I would internally shrug it off I did not give it as much often importance why because to me I was male female it was the same and you're you know you were being awarded selectively just because you are a woman part of me there was latent anger as well don't care about that right and then I came a full circle and I said okay fine they are there is this committee that has decided to actually practice equity and celebrate women I therefore need to participate fully and completely there and let's face it each one of us on this panel are in a for every one of us on this panel there are many many more who we could perhaps inspire right because the pyramid is that so that responsibility is there on each of our shoulders so now I fully participate and immerse myself in that glory because that then I'm carrying the responsibility that much more so I'm just sharing it with everybody because I and now I refuse to it's a women forum and I'm being acknowledged I'm fine and good and great so I've come a full circle so there it is so you know before we close we've talked we've spoken about all the barriers and all the biases everything negative that we have faced and there's a lot good that we need to do but you know there is what is it that you celebrate about being a woman you know if they were pretty and Anisha you can share that one thing that you really enjoy you know and as and if you had been born as a man you wouldn't have been able to other than you know okay look I'm inherently we can look a lot prettier than men definitely yeah I mean too bad no I'm not I'm not answering this question I don't think that is anything different to be honest yeah I celebrate me I would have celebrated me if I was a boy so yeah lovely so we all celebrate ourselves I was going to say I celebrate myself in your synchronicities what and all yeah yeah I am a good human being largely yeah and and and and if that is there I celebrate myself period yeah same for you pretty right yeah yeah absolutely I don't see the gender filter to celebrate more or less I always celebrate myself more you know that this one question I've got from audiences for Divya Divya if you can answer this did you ever get chance to discuss the issue of equity with your higher ups when you were not in the senior role this whole concept of equity is something that has dawned on me a couple of years ago so I am admitting it because there I would say equality this that so and it takes a lot of emotional bandwidth when you're putting yourself out there and saying hello you know you need to so the short answer is I have not okay should I have yes I should have but I will not shy away from the fact that this wisdom came to me in incomplete serendipity and slow motion so there I hope by the time our daughter's my daughter grows up she's only four years old we stop celebrating women's day we stop holding these panels on you know how women should break all the barriers and come out of a lot of things and I hope there is no mens day as well still it's a different format I'll definitely keep that in mind definitely you could have given me that feedback earlier also actually just out of a discussion that we felt the need of doing something on women's day and I just reached out to all of you and three of you three are very kind to you know accepted on this short notice of which two days were holy because this time holy was wonderful suggestion that has come from all three of you I'm going to my I think my connection is again instable so thank you Divya thank you Priti thank you Anisha thanks for you know being role models and inspiring us every day thanks a lot thank you thank you both all three of you thank you very much thank you have a good evening ladies bye bye thank you