 I am James Swanick and today we're talking to Christina Hansen, 41, who is a New York City carriage driver in Central Park. And Christina is also a working horse advocate and spokesperson for the carriage industry. She lives in Hell's Kitchen in Manhattan in New York. And today, she's 90 plus days alcohol free, which is an incredible achievement. First of all, Christina, welcome and congratulations. Thank you. And how does it feel to be 90 days alcohol free? It really feels amazing. I feel so good being alcohol free, like when I wake up in the morning, you know, better sleep, better energy, just better emotional state. And I'm so grateful that I decided to do this. I'm also I'm also proud of myself for doing it, you know, because, you know, I've tried to do things like this before and haven't really been able to do it and haven't made it, haven't kept the promises I made to myself. So this is a big deal for me. Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about the promises that you say you haven't kept to yourself until now. Well, I've actually been on your mailing list for like six or seven years, I think, you know, I think I heard I think I heard you on Dave Asprey's a podcast like years ago. I mean, I was years ago, Christina. I mean, that's a long time ago. Like, and I, you know, so but I, you know, yours was one that like I kept opening periodically. I never unsubscribe even when I cleaned out my email. So I moved to New York nine years ago. And I really wasn't much of a drinker before then I moved here to drive a carriage. And I, you know, I actually had my gallbladder removed about nine years ago, actually, like nine years ago last month, come to think of it. And, you know, I cleaned up my diet, you know, I lost a bunch of weight. I lost like 30, 40 pounds and and, you know, was feeling really healthy moved to New York. And I got an apartment over on 9th Avenue where I was renting a room from a woman who designs figure skating dresses for a living. And so the rule of the apartment was it was a good deal. You know, all utilities included everything like that good, you know, New York City place to be but the rule was I couldn't cook. So that meant I was eating out all the time on 9th Avenue. And, you know, I had dropped the Coca Cola, you know, I was, you know, drinking seltzer water and water in general. But, you know, at dinner, I would have a beer or cider I like, like Magna cider and stuff like that. And, you know, so it became one with dinner, you know, after work. And then that became two. And then it became three, you know, eating out every night. And then when you got three, then the smiling assassin buys you the fourth one. And now you and then, you know, so it just became a daily habit that, you know, it was like every night I was having three and four and then more out at a bar someplace in Hell's Kitchen I had have regular places in the neighborhood that didn't mind me coming in smelling like horse, you know, after work, you know, with the top hat and the wool coat and everything like that. And I was just a regular off in the corner. And, you know, they oftentimes have my drink of choice, whether it was the glass of wine or the magners like there by the time I got there when I walked in. So it just was sort of a reinforcing cycle. And then, you know, so like I said, I'd been on your mailing list thinking that I needed to not drink that much every day for a long time and just hadn't gotten around to like cut back, you know, or I, you know, have a couple of alcohol free days a week or I try to limit it to the four or something like that. And it just wasn't really happening. And then 2000, you know, 2020 happened, you know, the pandemic happened, you know, by this point, I have, I have my own apartment now I can cook, you know, but the pandemic happened, we had to send all of the horses away to the farms in Pennsylvania, the entire business shut down. And I was here in New York City, which was completely locked down with a lot of time on my hands and not a lot to do. And, you know, so I was drinking at home in the afternoon, then I'd go out and order, you know, you could have takeout beverages, you know, from places in the neighborhood. So it's like, Oh, I'm supporting local business by going out and you know, hanging out on the sidewalk here in Hell's Kitchen, you know, and it was a way to socialize outdoors with the regulars at the bar, you know. So when we went back to work in October, I mean, I gained like 25 pounds last summer between like July and September, even though I was out walking, it was the only thing to do as I was getting some exercise, but I gained a lot of weight. I was feeling sick. I tried to blame it on the virus because I did get COVID last spring, tried to say this was some sort of after effective of the virus. So, you know, I have a family history of breast cancer and I, you know, when I went back to work, I did start losing a little bit of the weight started to feel a little better, but I was still drinking a lot and become a daily habit. I mean, it's already a daily habit, but in terms of like, you know, we weren't doing a lot of business, there's no tourist here, there are no tourists here yet. So in the wintertime, I'd, you know, I don't really want to go to work. I think I'll go over to my local or whatever in the afternoon. And next thing you know, the whole afternoon is gone. And I finally decided in March that like, I really needed to do something about it. I was tired of living like that, I was tired of feeling, you know, like crap when I woke up in the morning, I was tired of feeling like I was wasting a lot of time that could be better spent on other things that were more important to me. I was tired of feeling sick. And, you know, I tried to quit on my own. I do three or four days in a row, fourth day I was feeling good, back out, you know, to my, to my friends at the bar and, you know, would wake up and say, geez, I feel terrible this morning, like worse than before, because you, you know, you notice it then. And then another three or four days, I'd feel good again, back to work again. So that's when I, you know, started really looking at the emails. I was still on your mailing list, you know, after all those years and said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for it. You know, like I've got to make a change. I'm worth it. And, and so I signed up. I started April 1st, so. Wow. You must have received about a thousand emails from me since. I probably did, you know, I can, you know, I mean, I probably deleted some of, you know, but I've moved other things like archives. It's like, well, yeah, I've received a lot of emails, but, you know, and a lot of them go unopened, as you know, but, you know, every now and again, a headline would catch me and I'd read it and be like, I really should do something about this and just had never gotten around to it. It was always there in the back of my head, you know, that, that, you know, I would feel better and be better, you know, if I didn't drink as much or at all, I'm now not drinking at all. So yeah, and what you said that you had, you referenced the smiling assassins before just for the benefit of our listeners inside of project 90, which is our quit drinking experience. I refer to anyone who offers you a drink with a smile on their face as a smiling assassin. So it can be a waiter or a waitress or it can be a husband or wife or your children or friends or colleagues or acquaintances or the host of a party. He really wants to be a great host and they're saying, hey, can I get you a drink? Hey, what would you like? Can I get you a wine? Can I get you a beer? What would you like? And they're smiling and they're not evil. They're not being, you know, they're not trying to corrupt you. They're being, they're being what they consider to be very friendly and hospitable and charming and lovely, but they're doing their job. If they're a waiter or waitress, of course, or a barman or a barwoman, but nevertheless, they're offering you what is simply attractively packaged poison. And those toxins when you drink them are somewhat silently killing you. And they might not be killing you physically or it might not be obvious that it's killing you physically in the short term, but it is killing you spiritually and it is killing your health over the long term, certainly. And it seems like you identified that, Christina. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, that it was, I mean, like I said, I couldn't believe that I gained 25 pounds last summer in like three months. It was just outrageous because, you know, because I wasn't, I mean, I work a very physically demanding job. So like without doing that, and then like, I probably, I mean, to be perfectly honest, I probably doubled the amount that I was drinking over the pandemic because I had nothing else to do. And, you know, was, you know, by myself kind of thing. So there's nobody to be like, how many of these, even in the recycling bin, you know, like so. But it also wasn't good for my mental health, you know, like I love my job. I love doing what I do with the horses. I love the extracurricular things I do about the horses, whether it's educating people about horses, you know, and it got to where, you know, it was just feeding into a mental cycle of depression and, you know, the sort of thing that I didn't feel like going to work. And that was the big wake up call for me that I didn't want to do this thing that I love. So that had a lot to do with deciding that something had to be done. So, and one of the things that I've learned, you know, in the past 90 days, as I've started to, you know, I feel better. I've got all the toxins out of my system. I'm well rested. I, you know, feel great, you know, that there have been some days this spring when I've been out at work in really shitty weather, you know, like, you know, it's an outdoor job, it's physically demanding and realizing that it's actually not so bad. You know, I can put up with the rain or the cold or the wind and stuff and that, you know, a lot of the whining over the past few years about it's cold, I need to go home or, you know, I don't want to stay out for that last ride, I just want to leave, you know, was because I wanted to be done with the day and go to go get my drink as my reward for having put up with it and, you know, sort of being able to recognize that, no, actually, it's not so bad, you know, I can stick it out, you know, and, you know, it was just a total like, aha moment of, because I said to myself, you know, I used to drive a carriage in Philadelphia before here and I was just like, yeah, I'm getting old, you know, the winters are hard, I can't deal with the bad weather anymore. And it's like, no, when I drove in Philadelphia, I wasn't drinking, you know, so I could put up with a lot more, a lot more weather and physical demands than, because I didn't have like this excuse to like, hurry on home and start my after work day with the alcohol. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what it's like to be a carriage driver in Central Park. Well, I'm biased, but I think I have the coolest job in the world because Central Park is my office, my carriage is my desk and I get paid to hang out with a horse all day. So, you know, everybody that's been in P90, Project 90 has gotten to know my horses as well as me because I often do my Marco Polos from Central Park, so they've gotten to meet King and Billy. I have a third horse, Oreo, who's on vacation right now and, you know, I walk down to the stable here in Hell's Kitchen, I hook up the carriage and we drive up to Central Park and then I get to meet people from all over the world and teach them the history of Central Park and show them around and show them Central Park the way it was meant to be seen. It was designed by Frederick Law Olvsted to be seen from the back of a carriage. So that's what I do. And at the end of the day, you know, the horses can only be out of the stable for nine hours out of the day. So it's like an eight-hour workday for them when they count their commute in Manhattan. You know, go back to the stable, take care of them. And, you know, I've got a flexible schedule, so I am my own boss. I work with a carriage owner which is another story. I work for a carriage owner who's also my best friend who just three weeks ago passed away with cancer and that's been a difficult thing for me, but it's his family's business. And so it's really technically his horses that I've been driving and working with. And I know that was a great shock to you, wasn't it, to have your friend pass away so suddenly from cancer? It was a hard thing, you know. I mean, he's my best friend and, you know, he was diagnosed last year in the pandemics, so, you know, we were keeping in contact via phone and texts and stuff like that. But, you know, I only saw him a couple of times in the last year, but he never, I don't think anybody really thought that this was something that was going to kill him or if it did spread metastasize with rare with a particular type of cancer, that it wouldn't, you know, be so quick and, you know, it's happened, you know, a little over two months into my project 90. And I am so grateful that I was not drinking because even though it's one of the hardest things that I've ever gone through in my life in terms of the grief and the loss, I was present for it in a way that I can't be sure that I would be if I were still drinking. You know, a friend of mine, you know, in the time period around his death and the funeral and everything had said, hey, let me take you out for a drink. It seems like you're like you need a drink. And I said, the last thing I need is a drink, you know, to be present, to feel all the feelings that I was feeling to also be there for people that were offering their condolences and really receiving them as opposed to being kind of shut down and not being there to listen to their stories and their memory, their memories and their condolences. I mean, and then I took the horse to the funeral and King was there, like all the like unexpected benefits of being in this program. I, you know, I've, like I said, lost 20 pounds. I've lost 20 pounds in 90 days. I'd lost like 15, 18 pounds by then I was able to fit in the clothes that I wanted to wear for the funeral without having to go out and buy something that I wasn't going to feel comfortable in. So like, I didn't have to worry about that too. I was able to feel comfortable in my own body and in my own space during that time. And, you know, it meant so much to his family to have the horse there, to have King there. And, you know, I was able to do it show up and be there. So, you know, that is not something I planned on having happen at all when I started with this. And, you know, it's like my personal tragedy that I'm going through, but to kind of bring it back to the listeners, you know, hear a lot of people who are thinking about stopping drinking and they always try to make a plan for it. And they say, well, you know, I've got my daughter's wedding coming up. So I got to wait till after that in three weeks. Oh, and then we're going on vacation. And, you know, I don't, you know, I got, I got to get through that, you know, and then the, you know, something's happening that I'm going to be expected to go out and I need to be able to drink life throws shit at you. Excuse me. Excuse my friends, but life throws stuff at you all the time. And if you try to wait for like the perfect 90 days that you're not going to have any obstacles, you're not going to be stressed. Nothing is going to come up that you feel like you got to go self-medicate, you know, like it'll never happen. So, you know, I am so glad to have had this community and to be in a place where I had made a commitment with people that would understand and who could support me during this time. And, you know, it would have been, you know, easy to say, well, screw it. You know, I'm just, you know, forget about it. You know, this, this is like so stressful or so upsetting, but, but then it wouldn't have felt it wouldn't have felt good. It wouldn't have felt like being true to myself or, you know, being able to honor and respect my friends. So, thank you for sharing that, Christina. Yeah. And yeah, I want to acknowledge you for being present for that. Because the easy thing would have been to just say, oh, I've had this traumatic thing happen in my life. I feel this great sense of loss. I'm grieving. Of course, I'm going to drown my sorrows. Or of course, I'm going to have a drink. You know, and I'll, and I'll have a reset and I'll come back and see you guys in a few days. And I'll start over on day one, you know, like, no, I mean, I'm so glad that, that I didn't. And, you know, I had a moment of clarity because there became a time when it was clear that my friend was dying. And I wanted to get to go see him. I didn't get to, unfortunately. But I had this moment of clarity was like, you know, what if, you know, like, he asked me to like bring him a beer and well, because he was one of my drinking buddies too, you know, you know, asked me to bring him a beer and, and we'll have like a dream together. And I said, that is the only thing right now that could get me to drink. I would have for like somebody's last deathbed request, who means a lot to me, you know, I would have done that. But nothing else, absolutely nothing else would have gotten me to, and it would have been one, you know, but that kind of clarity to say like, I am not interested in all the other things that I thought that alcohol was giving me, whether it was an escape or, or to relax or because I deserved it after a hard day. And I'm not interested in any of that anymore. So that was just this moment of clarity is, you know, because I know one of the things that a lot of people in Project 90, we all talk about like, well, what happens after 90 days? And that to me says, I'm just going to keep going, because I don't want to go back to, to any of that. I didn't, I don't need alcohol. And as a matter of fact, my life is better without it. The fact that you're sharing that your life is better without it, that's a big deal. Yeah, I mean, it really is. And, you know, it's not that I can't have fun and socialize with my friends or, you know, because I still am, you know, I mean, you know, one of my favorite things to do in the summertime, it's really hot here in New York City right now. The carriage horses can't work if it's above 89 degrees. So they go in when it hits 90. So we've had a lot of short days and stuff like that. One of my favorite things has always been like, hot summer day, the horses are all back at the stable. They're all getting hosed off and getting washed off. And, you know, people would have cold beer and do that, you know, take care of all the little things that need to get fixed on the carriage, hang out with your friends. And as always, one of my favorite, like, just things that are kind of fun about the job. And, you know, we've had those and I brought my Topo Chico thanks to Coach Victoria for turning me on to these. They're cold, they're refreshing, I still get to hang out with everybody, you know, and, you know, they, like the people that, you know, the stable men and stuff like that, they ask me like once, you know, and I'm like, no, no, I'm, you know, I'm taking a break from alcohol, I'm not drinking, but, you know, health stuff. And so, but I got Topo Chico, you know, so the stable men are Mexican and they were duly impressed that I was drinking Mexican mineral water and, you know, you bring it and put it in the fridge with the limes. And, you know, it's just, it's not that it's not the alcohol, it's the community and the hanging out and it's hot and having something cold and refreshing and talking horses and fixing carriages and stuff like that that's fun. It's not, it's not, it's not the buzz or anything like that. And it's interesting that your friends only offered you a drink once and then once you politely declined it and drank your Topo Chico mineral water, they haven't come back and tried to persuade you to change your mind. Like there's been a couple of people that didn't know that like, you know, another time they're like, hey, I'm like, no. And they're like, it even had my friend say, no, no, she's, you know, she's got her, she's got her Topo Chico, you know, so. But, you know, these, these are my co-workers and friends and stuff like that. They're not just kind of superficial friends, you know, they, you know, so it doesn't, you know, they know me. It doesn't matter to them. I'm not just, you know, the friend at the bar where, you know, like that's the whole context of, of the basis of our relationship. What was the most surprising thing that you learned during the 90 days? Most surprising thing. I think, oh, there's a couple of things. I mean, things in terms of like learning about myself, you know, how much a lot of the things that when I was drinking daily, you know, just being, you know, involved in like all the drama, the text messages, the Facebook comments, the stuff on Twitter, the national news, like I don't, I check the news, but I don't like watch the news all the time, you know, all that kind of drama and angst and stuff like that. You know, picking fights on text message when you're sitting around on your fifth or sixth, you know, kind of thing. I just don't, don't care anymore. Like it's just not important to me anymore. It's just like, and I don't mean that like an apathetic way. You know, I mean, that kind of in the more Buddhist like neutrality of it just is, you know, I don't need to like get myself all worked up about things, a lot of things I cannot change, you know, etc. And it's, it's just been a more steady even keel. And I don't think I realized in any way that the daily drinking was having that kind of effect on just sort of my, I mean, I understand like, like, oh, the oppression state, but, but like the other state of, of getting fighty, like, and, and getting agitated and wanting to, and getting worked up. I was, I was out at work one day pretty early on in the process, maybe about two weeks in. And somebody had said something on Twitter, like, and I was tweeting angrily back, back and forth and back and forth and back forward. All of a sudden, you know, it's like, I wanted a drink, like I had this massive craving for a drink. And I was like, what is that about? And it was the context of like, that was what I was doing when I was out at a bar was I was arguing with people online or, and I don't know if it was the association or if it was, it has to have been like the association of like getting, feeling that way. And like, you know, so that, that was something that I was, was surprised by. Yeah. So no more late night text message exchanges and Twitter. Twitter stuff, you know, like, I mean, I still, I still keep an eye on Twitter and everything about in social media, just like a nicer, I'm a nicer person online. And, you know, as a result, because of the algorithm, guess what? My Facebook feed is a much nicer place, you know, because what Facebook is showing me are like the things like I'm interacting in a more positive way with more positive things and more positive people. And so that's kind of a weird side effect. For the listener who might be wondering what you get or what you go through or what you experience specifically when you go through Project 90, would you try to explain that to them? So Project 90 is like this really awesome and diverse group of people from literally around the world who are at various stages in their, in their journey, in their alcohol-free lifestyle, which is something that actually I was a little surprised about. I kind of thought we were all going to like join together and like go through it all at the same time. But it was, it's really a great thing because you come, you know, I come into the program and here's somebody who's already on day 75, day 80, you know, and then there's also people that join the same time as you that you're going through at the same stages. And then there's some people that are like at day 30. And you've got this community then with the weekly calls. There's, you know, like six group calls on Zoom where we can all get on and have these smaller groups and really get to know people. And then there's also the Marco Polos, which is an app and you can film these little short clips about what you're going through on that day. Or, you know, it really works best if you try to do that, like at least once a day, you know, just to check in with people and check everybody as they're checking in. And what that means is that you get a lot of support from people that are ahead of you who like, when you're like on day 10, and you're just like, you know, I thought I was doing so well, but I am just exhausted. I need a nap. Like I'm, I am pissy and irritable and snapping at people and somebody's like, Oh yeah, yeah, when I, that's, that's pause, you know, like that's post acute withdrawal syndrome. I went through it at exactly that same time, you know, and here I am and I'm feeling much better 30, 40, 50 days out. And, you know, that's really a great help to have this community that, you know, people that, you know, we all just had a bad habit with alcohol that wasn't making us happy, that was holding us back or that we thought was helping but really wasn't. And it is, you know, the way that it's Project 90 with having all these people from literally all over the world, different backgrounds, different occupations, but we all kind of share this one thing. And so we understand, but to have people that are going through the, you know, and then, you know, eventually, you know, when you get a little further along the program, you see somebody new starting and they, and you see them go through exactly the same things that you went through and you can help them along and reassure them that that's, you know, normal. And then you also feel like, Hey, wait, I was just going through a process. It wasn't me, it wasn't like everybody has this happen, you know, that, you know, alcohol is an addictive substance that's science as Victoria likes to say, it's just science. So that's, that's kind of the program there. And like, if you're feeling wobbly or like, you know, you know, you're going into a situation that might be challenging for you can post on Marco Polo and say, Hey guys, I got to go out and go to this party or this event. I'm feeling anxious about it, but I'm just letting you know. So you guys can like hold me accountable. I'll be back here checking in, you know, to let you know that I didn't drink, you know, that's, and there's always somebody somewhere because we literally have people around the world that can kind of check in with you and, and keep you accountable. So it's a great community in that way. You had to invest some money to join project 90. So why didn't you just do something like AA or church group or inpatient or outpatient treatment center or try to do it yourself again? Why did you decide to actually cough up your hard earned cash to join? The money was scary because I am coming out of the pandemic where I didn't make any money for six months. And then tourism has been slow to come back to New York. But, you know, I looked at I said, you know, it, first of all, I live in New York City. So when you look at the amount of money I was spending on alcohol, eating out and stuff like that, where beer $7, you know, it's not that much more money to pay for the program. And my, you know, my health is worth it and everything. And it's also like the commitment, you know, it's like, I've committed to spend this money. And if I screw up, you know, then, then, then I really, then I'm really an idiot, you know, because I've lost all this money. It's the best, best money I've ever spent. But, you know, I, you know, if it's free, you know, you get what you pay for, right? You know, so you value it, you value it to the degree that you pay for it. In terms of like AA, you know, I did back in March when I decided I really needed help. You know, I did call up a friend of mine who has had his own struggles with alcohol. And he is, he's an AA guy. And I called him up because I knew he'd understand. And he did. And I work with him. And I basically said, you know, I need you to tell me what time I need to go to work tomorrow. Like I need somebody to hold me accountable and tell me that I needed and wanted and everything like that. And he was, you know, he was really helpful. And I really appreciate his support and everything like that. But he wanted me to go to AA with him. And it's just not, for me, I'm not a religious person. I'm not somebody who surrenders to anybody, you know, let alone a higher power, even if I do believe there is a higher power in the universe, I'm not gonna surrender the thing like that. And it just was not the language and stuff, even as he was being supportive and helping me, I was just like, no, no, no, no, no, I'll do it on my own. But then I found out I couldn't do it on my own. So I needed, you know, I was like, well, you know, this, you know, this program project 90 is just so positive. It's not about labels. It's not about shame. It's about understanding the biology, the neuroscience and what works to change habits. Because basically it's a habit. It's a bad habit. And it's a highly addictive substance, which reinforces all the, you know, neurochemistry and stuff like that. You know, I took a lot of science classes in college. So, you know, like, I'm like, yay, dopamine, you know, like, so I mean, that's stuff, you know, if I can understand it logically about what's going on there and how to change it, that works for me a lot better to the, as opposed to just like, you just have to surrender yourself and, and, you know, let shame and label yourself and then hope that, you know, that, that, that, that you'll be able to, to, to stay alcohol free. That just didn't appeal to me at all. But sounds like you valued the accountability of, well, actually, you know, paying for the program, investing in the program is a form of accountability itself, isn't it? Because, you know, I mean, it, it, it was, you know, it was a painful price point, but it has been so worth it. But yeah, it was enough that I'm like, well, I can't just like ghost this program, you know, like, I got to show up for it because I paid for it. Like, I want to get my money's worth. So, you know, so yeah, that's a form of accountability. But then just, you know, everybody in the program, you know, showing up for, for them, you know, and showing up and because they'll, you know, if you don't post in a couple of is especially make a habit of like posting a Marco Polo every day, they're like, hey, everything okay? Like what happened? You know, and, and, and that, that's a form of accountability too. It sounds like you could relate to the other members in the program, not just around alcohol, but maybe you saw some similarities around age demographic or profession or mindset. A lot of resistance I hear from people who are considering, you know, various programs, whether it's ours or a etc. You know, I don't really, I just don't feel like I relate to those people. And one of the criticisms I hear a lot of AA is that, that I will have, you know, I guess professionals and entrepreneurs or people who deep down know they're not an alcoholic. Yeah, but they just, at the moment, they just drink too much and they can't break that habit. And the criticism, I guess, of AA is that they go to AA and they're hearing some stories that are just dreadful, you know, people who are really, really struggling and, and maybe drug addicts and, and they're in shame and there's, there's a lot of victim hood and this is not to be accusatory to anyone, you know, who's suffering or going through. No, it's awful if people need help because it's really, it's really, you know, tragic how alcohol and other substances can just ruin people's lives, lose their jobs or whatever, lose their families, you know, end up in jail, you know, like it, it, it, you know, and of course get sick and die. But, you know, I'm even, you know, being depressed, whatever, it's not at that point, you know, I have a job, you know, I go to work, you know, and if anything, you know, as silly as it sounds in hindsight, you know, my drinking habit was fueled by also being able to keep up with the boys. I work with a lot of middle-aged Irish men, you know, so, you know, that I can go out and drink with them and keep up and, and quote unquote have fun. And, and, you know, and sort of like point of pride was, you know, how many could I have and still show up to work on time the next morning? Because I always showed up to work on time the next morning. So, like I said, it sounds stupid now, but, but with that kind of mindset about it, it's like, you know, how much is, is, is my problem really a problem? You know, I mean, it was a huge problem for me. It's bad for my health. You know, it was making me depressed. I wasn't getting good sleep, you know, and I was, you know, not being as nice or good a person as I could be, but it wasn't like ruining my life in the immediate term. So, yeah, it's, it's sort of, you know, you, everybody sort of suffers with imposter syndrome, but you might like sit around and be like, do I even belong here? Do I, you know, like am I legitimate to partake in this program that, you know, I don't, you know, feel like it's that bad for me. You know, and it's my heart and soul not really in it because I don't think it's that bad because so much of like an AA thing is about giving yourself over to the process. And if you don't feel like you're in the same boat as everybody else, how can you like just give yourself over to the steps if you don't really believe that you should be there? So, yeah, no, I definitely think that Project 90 with people that, you know, we have people that, you know, they're lawyers, they're real estate people, they're construction workers, they're, you know, barbers, you know, they all kind of creative types, you know, who have these rich, full, fulfilling lives. They just, we all just have this habit that's taking away from our ability to fully enjoy the things that we want, that we have in our lives to be able to fully appreciate our friends and our family and our jobs and our mission and being alcohol-free and breaking that habit helps us fulfill or at least have the potential to go fulfill those goals. So, I'm going to name you Coach Christina for a moment. How does that feel? Okay, all right. I used to go by Christina the Carriage driver, but Coach Christina works too. Coach Christina for at least the next two minutes. So, I'd love you for you to coach our listener on one thing that really worked for you on cutting alcohol out of your life or remaining alcohol-free during this process. It could just be a little hack, it could be a fun little thing, it could be a big thing. What can you share with us? Well, the little thing is really like the topochico, like find some non-alcoholic beverage, preferably non-caloric non-sugar beverage too. I mean, I'll admit, you know, I've had a few of my Coca-Cola's in this process, but I've allowed that because the Coca-Cola's not as bad as the alcohol, but find something they really like. These I like because I mentioned like the stableman like it that I've got like the obscure Mexican seltzer water, you know, because they like to drink modello, you know, the second choice like Mexican beer, you know, kind of thing that's less famous than Corona. But for me, actually, this is a weird thing, but these require a bottle opener, and my previous drink of choice required a bottle opener. So, that kind of tactile thing opening the bottle made me feel like I wasn't missing out on like that part of the routine, that part of the ritual, you know, in the same way that smokers need to have something to do with their hands, you know, when they're quitting smoking. So, you know, just being aware of what your routines are around drinking and then replacing it with something that is alcohol-free and healthy, you know, I found to be like to me like the fact that this requires a bottle opener makes it so much more satisfying to me than, you know, a plastic bottle that you unscrew or a can that you open, you know, but maybe somebody, you know, was drinking can be or maybe somebody who's a wine drinker needs to put it in a wine glass with like a piece of fruit on the end or something like that, you know, that's like a little hack. I'm just trying to think of I got a bigger hack. Good one. Great. Thanks. Thank you for sharing that. You know, while you were talking, I just I just quickly went on Google and typed in when my interview with Dave Asprey on the Bulletproof Radio was, and it was a long time ago. You did a couple, but this is really funny. This is really funny. It was March 2016. So, you enrolled in Project 90 almost exactly five years later. So, my question is, you know, I mean, maybe you weren't compelled to reduce or quit drinking as a result of hearing me for the first time five years ago. Maybe you were. But isn't it if you look at it now, you've experienced these immense benefits in the last 90 days. If you knew now what you knew back then, would do you think you would have done something about your drinking five years ago? Do you look at that five years now as being a waste or as time poorly spent or is it still fine? But now you kind of maybe you wish you'd started a little bit early. Like, how do you look at that five-year block now? I definitely feel like I wasted a lot of time. And, you know, I mean, it's not like it was bad. It's not like I didn't, you know, learn things along the way or have good times or anything like that, you know, but it was a lot of wasted time. There's a lot of things, you know, I want to do that I just haven't been doing because I've been wasting all this time and money and energy and stuff. And, you know, in the context too of my best friend dying, I mean, you know, life is short, you know. You can't say like, oh, I'm going to, you know, I'll worry about it when I'm sometime in my 40s, you know, and I'm still in my 30s. I got plenty of time, you know, I, you know, I definitely wish I had started sooner. But I I don't know that I would have been in the right place to make that commitment for the 90 days. I think I probably five years ago would have been like, oh, I'll do like 30 days. And, you know, to be honest with you, 30 days isn't enough. You know, I think for a lot of people like you can do anything for 30 days. And back earlier when I was talking about people waiting for like that perfect block of time when they're not going to have a wedding, when they're not going to have a trip, when they're not going to be moving, when they're not, you know, you can find a month that's like that. It's very hard to find three months that are like that. And I do think doing this in a program long enough to go through challenges, whether they're health challenges, you know, I just had ACL reconstruction surgery on top of all of this, you know, or, you know, some challenge that comes up with work or with a family member or, you know, if you don't have that opportunity, then I, you know, like I might have done 30 days five years ago, but would it have stuck or would I have gone back to, well, after 30 days, I can go back to drinking moderately, you know, I don't know, or whether I've gone back to drinking moderately, and then it might have just delayed the inevitable of the 90 days and a commitment to continue being alcohol free for the foreseeable future, you know, because, you know, a lot of people don't have success with moderation, but I would have, I think five years ago, I might have said, oh, well, 30 days, and I might have done it, but I might have been gone back and ended up back where I am or ended up being before I started this. But I do wish I'd started sooner, but I'm not sure that it would have stuck, you know. Yeah, got it. Okay. Well, as we just turn the corner and head for home here, what now? What is next for Christina? I am going to continue being alcohol free. I don't see myself as being a person that can have just one, you know, like I'm just not one of those, or two, I'm not one of those people, and I don't really have an interest in it. Like in, you know, the three weeks or so that I said, I'm done with drinking, I've got to make a change. And when I actually started Project 90, where I would go three or four days, and then go drink four or five beers, you know, I felt so bad the next day, I was like, wow, that's a reminder that I don't really want to go back to that. So I do have that memory, at least of how that made me feel. So, you know, I intend to be alcohol free for the foreseeable future. And you know, I look forward to continuing to improve myself and get started on projects and stuff that I've put off because I've been busy wasting my evenings, you know, with the attractively packaged poison that's everywhere. Yeah. Well, congratulations. Again, Christina, and thank you for sharing your journey with us and with our listener. Appreciate you. And yeah, I feel like you're probably going to show up even better, even more, even better for all of your passengers in Central Park as well. I'm sure you were already outstanding, but maybe being alcohol free, it gives you. Certainly. Certainly. And just better for everybody, better for the horse, better for passengers, better for everybody else. I mean, it's been, you know, just a really great program and a great thing that I've done for myself. You know, I can't imagine going through what I've gone through in the last month and still be drinking. But then, you know, I have like plans, you know, now to get some stuff done. Yeah. Christina, thank you so much. And congratulations again. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Alcohol Free Lifestyle podcast. I want to load you up with some free stuff right now. So if you want to go to jameswanick.com slash guide, I will send you my quit alcohol guide, which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals produce or quit drinking. You can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222, if you're in the US, of course, it doesn't really work anywhere outside of the US. But if you're in the US on your mobile phone and you'd like that guide, text the word quit guide to the number 44222, or you can go to jameswanick.com slash guide. 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