 Welcome back. My name is Esti Klaas and as you know, we have absolutely amazing shows coming to you live every night this week. And without further ado, I'm sitting with the absolutely amazing head of thought leadership, Nepoi Mukhatle. Good evening. Oh, what a lovely introduction. I'm very well. Thanks. How are you doing? Thank you so much for joining us, taking time out of your busy day. And I love just engaging with you just a little bit before the show is what I noticed about you and your characteristics is that you're very down to earth. And that's something that we need as millennials, first-time home buyers. People who understand us, you know. I agree 100%. You know, a lot of the time buying a home seems like such a complex process, but it really doesn't have to be. And I think our jobs, including all stakeholders in the property chain, is to make sure that we eliminate that complexity and make it easy and helpful for people to own homes. Exactly. Even coming into Netbank shouldn't be this nervous, shouldn't be this nerve-wracking. We're financial experts who are trying to do good. Yeah. You're the people who help us. No reason to be nervous. Exactly. And on that note, a few of my friends, you know, in the group of millennials, I'd like to think I fall in that group, we all, we're looking to buy our first home and we're looking for guidance, mentorship, help, financial help. Financial literacy was never part of our ballgame growing up. It's nothing we knew. We weren't equipped with that type of knowledge. So what do you think that millennials can do to avoid any troubles that come in their way when purchasing that first home? Sure, ST, you made such valid points, right? And I think, first of all, you know, I think millennials have gotten a really hard rep, right? And perhaps we should be having the conversation about what should people who are buying homes in the future be aware of, right? Because I think, you know, whether we're talking about millennials or we're talking about Gen Z, it's about people who are buying homes in the future. And I think with the complexity that the pandemic has brought around, I think the first thing is to widen the scope of your options, right? So if you are somebody like myself who has the flexibility of not necessarily having to walk into an office for work, think about how much you can alleviate the pressure from your wallet by buying something that is a little bit further outside of your normal place of work, right? So for instance, I mean, we're here in this beautiful building in Santon. You know that prices for individual units around this area at a premium. So why not consider an option of buying a property a little bit further away so that you get more bang for your buck? That's just one of the ways that millennials and other people in the future home buying process can mitigate some of those risks. The upcoming generations. And I think it's so important and key that we actually look at because a lot of our viewers actually, and I say this week after week because we notice younger people coming to the show, starting from 16 to 18, they're still in high school. And I love that they're thinking about property already or investments. And on that note, talking about like our parents going back home, we all have our family home that we visit. And many cases, our parents are still paying off their bond. How do we as the younger upcoming generation avoid being in a similar space? How do we pay off our bond sooner? How can we avoid that with being financially literate as key and one of the key points? But what other mechanisms are there? Yeah. So Estine, there's actually quite a range of options that are available to make sure that the pitfalls that might occur when owning a property and particularly paying it off when you think about a bond or anything of that nature, there's lots of stakeholders in this property process that can help along the way. So there are many options that are available for first time home buyers. One of them is through a government subsidy called Flisp, which stands for the financially linked subsidy program. And this is a program that allows first time home buyers who are earning between three and a half thousand to 22 and a half thousand Rand per month, the opportunity to have a cashback paid into their bond as part of the purchase of a home. So that's really kind of one of the ways that you can tap into and make the home buying process less burdensome. The other option of course, which is also government initiated, is the fact that all properties under a million Rand do not have a transfer duty applied to them. So that's also one of the big wins in this far as being able to access the property market and make it a little bit more flexible and manageable for first time home buyers. And we always talk about research, research, research. And I found out about Flisp last year for the first time. Really? Yeah. And it shows like this and it's conversations with people like you that educate us as the younger generation because and I'm sure there are many other solutions that maybe we won't have time to mention today, but it's about doing your own research and speaking to the right people and networking. And I think a lot of the times we talk about how afraid we are to approach people of the stature, who have the status, who can help us because we're like they're going to ask us to pay. Yeah. And you know, Esther, you touch on a very important point, right? So, you know, we think of millennials and young people who are buying properties in the future, right? And some of the thinking around that is that a lot of young people feel like they don't want to be tied to a property, you know, they want to be able to travel, even post COVID perhaps. But they want that fluidity of being able to be anywhere and not be tied to anything. That does not mean that property purchasing doesn't play a factor in that. So nothing stops young people from taking up the opportunity to buy properties and use them for investment purposes, right? To start the journey now and actually add to your investment portfolio, even though you might not consider staying there permanently. We always talk about this passive income. Go travel while your house makes money for you. You know, your property, your investments make the money for you. 100%. I wanted to talk a little bit about the trends between because I called you a veteran earlier, you know, you've been around, you've been in a game and I want to ask you a little bit about the trends. I read an article, it was, I think, two years ago about how black women are taking over the market, the property market, young, single black woman. And so let's talk a little bit about the trends millennials maybe in this day and age and how it was back in the day. And if we can touch on both things, renting and buying. Sure, interesting. Yes. And I remember that piece of research that was done where women, particularly black women, of course, are taking up space in as far as the property purchasing arena is concerned. And I think that's a consequence of a number of things, right? So firstly, it's about accessibility. Far more they are more women, particularly in South Africa, but across the continent who have access to opportunities like they never had before, right? The fact that you and I are sitting here having this conversation about property tells you a lot. Yeah. So I think accessibility has played a large part in as far as how young women are able to access property and buy our property. I think the next trend or opportunity that we should look out for is this whole notion around work from home. Right. And what that means to living spaces for a large number of people. So do we still want to be living in one bedroom units? Or do we want a lifestyle that allows us to live in our homes as often and as frequently as we are doing now during lockdowns and during a pandemic? Right. So I think the narrative around, you know, sectional title versus freehold, one bedroom versus three bedroom is really going to be an interesting debate that we can take forward. And I think lastly, the third trend that we need to watch out for is rental versus purchasing, right? And I think that plays into that whole millennial or Gen Z or property owners of the future space, right? So what is it that you want your home to bring? Do you want your home to be an investment opportunity? Do you want it to be a space where you can raise your children and build a family or even look after your loved ones? Because there's a lot of us who have that kind of responsibility. And so part of that will determine how much the rental space changes and transforms in a space and a time where people are really starting to consider what it means to own property. Right. Yeah. And I think it's important to know, and I've been doing a lot of research because I'm looking to move and or to do rent by or to purchase property. And it's important for us to know, I think we assume the word bond, we assume that it's going to be like 20,000 land where if you look at apartments that maybe you're looking in Santon and it's about seven or let's say 10,000 a month, you could find an amazing apartment maybe further away from Santon where you could buy it and pay off that bond. A lot of this knowledge is new. It's new knowledge to me and I'm learning every day about these little things that are ways that I can purchase property. And it's very key. You said something amazing about knowing why you're buying your property, knowing is it investment? Is it a first home? Is it a home? Do you want to make this a home? Or is it what what if the other reasons were but what's important about that is because one of our guests previously spoke about the emotional attachment to buying property. And when you're investing in a home to tell yourself this is my home and two years later it will be an investment. It's hard. It's not that easy to just give up. And I think, you know, we we we're moving towards a space and a time where things are no longer as structured as they were. There's fluidity and so there's fluidity in our lifestyles as well. And I think we need to own and accept that. One of the key things that we also need to consider is that life and most things around it happen in cycles, right? And the interest rate is one of them, right? So interest rates work in a cycle. So when you're considering buying a home, particularly as a first time home buyer, right, understand that interest rates are cyclical. Right now we're experiencing probably one of the lowest interest rates going through one of the lowest interest rate cycles. The repo rate is sitting at 3.5, which means prime lending is sitting at 7. And so this sounds like an opportune time to purchase a home, right? Which is great. But one of the key things that we need to consider is to make sure that as that cycle turns, that you and I are ready for that turn, right? And we're ready to make sure that there is a buffer in as far as being able to repay at a higher interest rate cycle. And so those are some of the things that should be considered as you think about, am I buying this property to live in? Am I buying this property to invest? Either way, it's cyclical. Yeah. And when it changes, am I ready? Are you ready for that change? We spoke about, just earlier about, that's not me, I mean, say me, because you're the veteran. She keeps saying this, right? She keeps saying this. We talk about financial literacy. That's your language. That's what you speak. You speak finance. We spoke about financial literacy being foreign to a lot of young individuals. What would you say that net bank or what would you say that you're doing to, especially when it comes to credit score? This thing called credit score, which a lot of us are only learning about now. How do we maintain that? How do we check if we qualify for certain things? How do we even get a good credit? What is a good credit score? Yeah. So let's break down that credit score conversation a little bit, right? So your credit score is essentially a number that gets assigned to any individual who has a behavior in as far as how they pay their credit accounts. So whether it is a retail shopping account or a bank linked credit card, for example, you will be assigned a score based on your credit behavior. How often you're paying the credit off? Are you paying the right amount? Are you paying it consistently? And that score is assigned by various credit bureaus across the country, right? So that is your score. That score allows people like ourselves at net bank and other credit lenders to make sure that when we are lending to you, we're not lending in an irresponsible or reckless manner. It is to empower our customers to make sure that the kind of credit decisions that are being made are the right ones. So that's the credit score concept. Yeah. And then so I think another important thing because we are like talking to the next generation is how do we, what do we need to do to actually have a good credit record, to qualify for that home loan, to qualify to make that big investment? Yeah. And the trick is simple, right? It's if you had to lend somebody money, their terms to that contract, if I can put it that way, right? So if I'm going to lend somebody money, I need to make sure that when they say I can pay back every Monday, that's what they're going to do. When they say I can pay you back 10 rand every Monday, that's what they're going to do. So the same principle applies when it comes to your credit score and how that credit score makes sure that your behavior is the right kind of behavior. So make sure that you pay on time, you pay the amount that you said you're going to pay and have a conversation with your credit providers when you are not in a position to pay, because that also sets you up for success and it shows your credit provider that you are part of this relationship and you're going on this journey with them, as opposed to keeping quiet and then things fall apart. We spoke about being ready for a change and ready for a shift and I think we can all agree no one was ready for the pandemic, no one was ready for what 2020 had to bring. And during that time of uncertainty, there were solutions made by NetBank and by people like you sitting on the top there making these changes. And I wanted to find out because we're still in a time of uncertainty. Little things have gone back to normal but we're still here and we're still waiting for something to happen. It's like we're on edge. That's how it feels for me, that this change can come at any moment and you just have to be ready to adapt. And what has NetBank done to help us make the application process for this investment for your first home possible and easier during this time of uncertainty? Yeah, you know here at NetBank we have a term that we use quite widely it's called resilience. I think that's such a powerful word, right? In a world of complexity, in a world where there's a lot of change, the level of resilience is what's going to set you apart. And so one of the things that we have to make sure that the online home loan application process is easier is that people are able to apply any time, anywhere from the comfort of their homes so they can use any of our digital platforms to do so. We have a fantastic sales and service team in the form of our distribution channels so you can walk into any NetBank branch today, you can contact our contact center and they will assist you with the home. But I think what is key for us is to make sure that that application process is a seamless and convenient regardless of which channel you choose. I think the last thing that I'd like to say just as far as how we're making sure that we are very impactful in how we make sure customers are put into homes is that we have linked our loyalty and rewards program to a responsible borrower package. So it's not just about giving away points for swiping or transacting which is what traditionally loyalty and rewards programs have been. But I think at NetBank what we've really tried to do is to make sure that we recognize those customers of ours that are responsible in paying back their home loan or their credit cards or their personal loans. In fact just recently because of that responsible borrower package one of our customers was very lucky to have been selected for their home loan to be paid off in full because they were managing their behavior and their repayments so successfully. So that's just one of the things. Yeah and I love what you said about resilience. I mean back in my varsity days we looked at resilience as an elastic so pulling it and pulling it but it comes back and I think the ability to do that and it's not only for the people who for the younger generation who are applying for the home loans but it's also people like you. On the other side the people who were maybe afraid to speak to or ask for advice but just to show us that no we too are resilient so we educate you to kind of have the same characteristics and on this note of uncertainty we know that during COVID we lost people lost jobs. Retrenchments was a thing and it was such a difficult time because a lot of us had to go and dig into that savings account and touch money we didn't think we'd ever have to right now and I just want to find out about like when it comes to how what need bank did during that time for the for their customers during again that time of uncertainty. Sure that was a tough time and I think it continues to be a tough time for a lot of our customers so we had a range of debt relief options available to our customers and I'll talk specifically about the home loan one so we had payment holidays that had been worked out customers could actually go online to our digital platforms and ask for relief because they had either you know been you know unable to work as a result of COVID or had literally lost their jobs right so that relief program has almost run its course nothing stops a customer today of net banks from contacting us directly and saying I'm still struggling and I need help and what we've decided and what we very clear on is to have a very bespoke set of solutions depending on each customer's individual circumstances so our ask to our customers is always to contact us have a conversation and then make the necessary arrangements because there are arrangements that can be made. We spoke a little bit about this thing called flisp earlier and the chats about property among millennials let me tell you something it is coming up it's a it's a it's a chat that we have at the dinner table now from personal experience it's something we talk about often we're not afraid of it anymore we may not have enough money but we talk about it and the fact that it's part of the conversation right now is one thing that means something right just a vision ambition exactly what the show is about and we spoke about other solutions that people who do not having we talk a lot about not having enough money but between three thousand to twenty two thousand you said right there are people who earn that much and they still can get property and so I'd like for you to just expand a little bit on how this flisp thing works if I was ready to apply tomorrow and you know get my property the process how long does it take what do I need besides you know just earning in that income bracket there's probably other things I need maybe we can also do talk a little bit about flisp is it only for South Africans do only South Africans qualify just a little bit more about this thing called flisp yeah sure so it's such a powerful initiative from government side right and I think what makes this even more powerful is that it has the support of the private sector as well yeah so that income bracket is one criteria so the the 3.5 up to the 22 odd k range but the other criteria is it's quite lengthy right so I would encourage you know consumers to go on to online to the housing department's website and just have a look at that criteria so one of the criteria for flisp is that you need to be in a household where there are dependents that works in your favor right and I think one of the things that is what government is really trying to do is trying to address those parts of society where there is a fundamental need to house as many people as possible right the other thing that flisp requires from a customer who wants to buy a property is that that property is linked to a bond so you are not buying that property for cash you are buying that property and have applied for a bond through one of the the home loan providers so flisp is again a powerful initiative run by government and the beauty of it is that it has the collaboration with private sector I think because the criteria for flisp is so broad my recommendation would be to visit the department of housing website and understand all that criteria and see which one fits you best in order to make the right application process again research and it's so important to do your own research we can talk all day about what you need to do but at the end of the day and I think what's so important about research is when you do it yourself you kind of understand it in your own words you know your colloquial your terminology is what you understand and just before we wrap it up I want to talk about there's a lot of misconceptions when it comes to and we I say I say this all the time because I think it's my fear maybe I shouldn't project about going to the bank and asking for a home loan about these discussions that we should be having as younger as the younger generation and obviously there's it's the stigma around the banks and it's talking about home loans but what has what has netbank done to kind of break break that narrative change that narrative and to let go of that stigma made it easier for us to come to you I think you know SD it's also about purpose right so so at netbank we're very purpose driven our purpose is to use our financial expertise to do good for individuals communities and families and so when we talk about how we have made things a little bit simpler for the home buying and the home ownership process I think our branch network I mean walk into a branch today at netbank and you will see the change you will see the future in those netbank stores I think secondly what we've done is we've broadened the channels that our customers can go to our digital channels are prime and ready for anybody be you a first time home buyer or a seasoned professional of buying homes to access toolkits that allow you to search for properties get property information and apply online yeah and we've also obviously got our contact center who has a strong baby of sales consultants ready to actually assist with that process thank you so much for for joining me today but I don't I don't want to end it right there I want to ask you a personal question we're talking about home loans and you've given us such amazing advice on what we can do and this also this is not only for the millennials it's not only for the younger generation if there's anything you can take from this conversation and apply it to your own life please I mean you've made it seem sound so easy and I think the key thing is that it is and last question what does home mean full of point what does home mean that thing home sure now you're getting personal but I can completely answer that you know home for me is um two things home for me is Johannesburg because I have an absolute love affair with the city yeah and I think anybody who's tied to a city and its energy can can relate to that and then home is also um where my family is yeah so so my my husband and my kids and I think wherever they are is where I'll be that's safe space that's safe haven again thank you so much Lupe and we'll we need to have this chat again and I think you'll see and we spoke briefly about trends but trends are changing thank you so much Lupe for joining us that's all for tonight the first time home by a show and we'll see you guys again next week same time same place