 privileged to be here. I had a brief gap in my dog career for five years. One of things I was doing was chairing the digital policy group here, involved the energy policy group, and I always found this a really interesting welcoming warm and critical house actually in our city and our country to share ideas and thinking. I was last week on my campaign trail. I took time off and went into visit Brendan Halligan in hospital and he was as wise and as committed and interested and engaged as ever and I'm wishing him well in his full recovery at this time. One of the things recently in this house where I found it very useful we were privileged to have a top chair at the event actually my colleague Philippe Lambert from the head of the European Greens and the European Parliamenters here gave a speech and I thought it really set out a very interesting assessment of what's happening broadly in our European Union at this present time. He speaks and I'm only summarizing it right down to a very short kind of a assessment. Our liberal democratic system is in a real uncertain period. There's real doubts and division and a rise of populism, nationalism right across Europe and in states and elsewhere. Our assessment of that is it's an understandable reaction to the end of the old story. The story for 40 years from I'm old enough to remember it from the late 70s through to maybe 2008 that the market would deliver for you was no longer credible in a whole range of different ways because of the crash and the effects of that because the sense that there was a gap a difference and a leash and people were being left behind in that and it was a me story people need more than that you know this markets will rise lifting all boats by looking after each other or yourself will with all rise clearly wasn't working and what Philippe put it in very simple terms is we needed we politics now to fill that gap. There are false we politics out there I think Brexit is a false we politics it's we against Europe or Trump we against the elite we against Oxford and Cambridge and Bruges I won't name any Irish universities for fear there's anyone here for one of them but you know what I mean and that explains a lot of what's happening in our union in our country and in the wider world. We think that green politics is the we politics the next story the future story of our time because it exact to make the scale of change we need to make to address the real fundamental crisis we're in the advance of climate change the huge extinctions that are taking place under biodiversity loss it will only work if we actually pull together and of people of all different political strands work in cooperation to make the scale and the speed of the chain change we need to make and that drives our politics at this time it drives our politics in the European Parliament where we have a key interesting position it's still the old way is still there with the Christian Democrats Liberals and Social Democrats kind of just about having the majority but it needs that new green element to think to hold it together and to set a course for Europe that really works in a new way it works I hope here at home we're we've said in this election that we will work with all parties because it won't work if we go down the device of American or Australian route in tackling climate change if it's a left right divide or an urban rural divide or a young versus older divide we won't make the scale of change we need to make. I remember Brendan talking to him once in the door in the door cafe a few years ago he just said something in passing I think he said Jack DeLore had come once here to do an assessment of how Ireland had integrated into the European Union and I think he said that DeLore's assessment was he was doing it for the Commission was that the reason Ireland had been successful compared to other countries is that there was actually a unified position for a significant period of time in what we were doing in that period from the late 50s early 60s when Richard Gordon Lamass set us in this course then for changing from a closed economy to an open economy we had a stable political commitment to that goal and in that stable political environment for 20 30 years we were able to do the key policy changes we needed to do to make the the leap then investing in education creating foreign direct investment environment joining the European Union and by making those sort of policy changes and have a consistent environment political agreement around the broad approach we've seen the incredible transformation of this country to one of the most successful if we're honest countries in the wider world we need a similar my mind commitment now for the next five ten twenty years that going green is going to be the strategic direction for our country it's a difficult story we're asking talking downstairs about how come this hasn't been quite central stage in the election well it's difficult because it's so big it changes everything it's changing the entire energy system transport system waste system industrial system farming system economic system for the better and I think whoever's elected on Saturday one of the first tasks wherever the future possible coalition arrangement may be it's to sit down with the with the public service with agencies like the IAA and others to actually plot out a new program for government which sets us on that path the critical path for this next decade I'm proud to be a member of the European Greens because we're very strong United European Party Scott Keller our other co-leader in the European Parliament with Philippe was in Dublin at the weekend helping us with our campaign she made the point we have four governments now where we have got presence on the European Council the European Council ministers particularly where in my experience you can have real effect you can actually do things that's where we need to be that's where we can really work effectively to get the fundamental underlying change which will help us rise I want to give a couple of examples about that what you know what could we what should we be saying on the European Council as well as in the Parliament as well as working with the Commission I might start honouring Brendan because I remember I was here about ten years ago one project I want to mention close to his heart and I gave a speech here ten years ago as energy minister at the time and said we have a huge potential in this country to develop offshore wind in a way that powers our country for the future and ten years on as well as working the IEA when I was away from the doll I worked with E3G in London for five years worked in climate diplomacy with the German government French government Dutch British governments at a very high level and actually it's taken us ten years but I think we're at a moment now in Europe when we realize yes offshore wind particularly is going to be one of the real driving opportunities to power the European Union into the future and this country is a huge chance in that we could and should and will put five gigawatts of offshore wind in the RC as a first step we do it using the auction system that they've devised in other European countries to make sure we get best value we have to maximize and make sure it's environmentally sensitive protect we protect our environment at the same time we maximize the economic development potential in our ports particularly where we will build assembled man and maintain all these turbines but that's only the start we need to go offshore in the West Southwest and Northwest at scale we should be setting the target of 30 gigawatts of offshore wind within the next 20 years huge project the huge machines 12 megawatt machines floating turbines held to the ground with with a very sophisticated tech technology but this is the cheapest form of new power and this gives us the opportunity not just to use that power in our own country to run our transport system to heat our homes to manage this digital and help support this digital revolution that's taking place in which we're particularly strong in but also it allows us to export and share that power with the rest of Northwest Europe and beyond that is the big technological energy revolution that is taking place all the financing will go towards that European policy is framed towards that and we have real potential because we're good at it the likes of air grid are best in the world we project companies we people in this country with real skills and we turn to them it's a European Union project but I cited I bring it up because actually it's a critical project for cooperation with the UK whatever happens with Brexit we cannot allow us to become isolated islands because in this transformation to tackle climate change we cannot do it alone this industry revolution is all about the balancing of variable demand and variable supply that's really difficult and complex and important at the distribution level but it also needs to be done at that regional level where new HVDC cable share powers over long distances with low losses and each country supports each other to actually have a secure competitive and low carbon energy system in the negotiations been kept close touch thanks to Simon Cove me others with what's going on I've never heard a single mentioned that the UK negotiators don't agree with that assessment because the truth is there isn't a better way I think it's vital for us in the negotiations we have ahead of us we've such a huge challenge we have to organize how the north of Ireland stays within the customs union a political project we've ten different other projects we have to deliver not just at bare bones freight free trade agreement in the next six months but also all those complex issues are how we manage fisheries how we manage data how we manage energy how we manage security how we manage people movement I think we have a particular role hopefully we could bring it into the European Council to make sure in areas like that of very central to the transition in energy and in data management which is it's all connected those grids this network system this balancing will only really work when we have common rules around how we share data and how we manage the digital side of the transformation and I hope as well that we can take from the European Council some of the lessons of some of the ideas that are coming in terms of what the future transport in there are three revolutions occurring at a time one is a clean energy revolution the others the digital revolution they're connected together the third is a transport revolution where you know this in terms of how we've got planning wrong in this country how we're doing a disservice to our people by this ever-outward sprawl this disconnect between housing and transport and everyone's promising we'll build 20 thousand house we'll be 50 we'll build a hundred thousand but no one's talking about how do you build communities as you do that it's true transport led development putting in the public transport cycling and walking infrastructure first and then bringing the housing in around it the European Union is important in that not just because they have expertise or good examples but they've clearly set their course on the European Green Deal as the center of European strategy now I met with pleasure pleasure meeting the Commission of the president the president of the European Commission Miss van der Leiden in Dublin Castle two weeks ago and I'd have to say my assessment a good chance to talk to her is that she's clearly committed to this as our central strategy I've met Andrew McDowell in the same location head of lending an EIB in the energy space and he again made the point that we need that they're lending they're looking for lending opportunities but only if it's going in this Green New Deal direction I also watched pleasure Brendan suggested I do it Danny McCoy speaking from this very podium four weeks ago three weeks ago where he recognized that actually our business community has been really successful in recent years but our state is not hasn't grown in commensurate terms it was fascinating to hear that actually the head of the IBAC the business community saying we need a bigger state I think he's right we need investment in infrastructure particularly in housing and transporting energy in all these areas that I'm talking about we can't do that if we're cutting taxes at the same time it's a hard message to get out during election but I think it's an honest assessment of where we are we have to invest in our capital infrastructure both the public 8 billion euro budget growing but also as Danny says there's that 120 billion private capital budget that's been spent in this country every year one of the jobs we would have if we were fortunate to be part of a coalition arrangement in the future government would be to actually steer that 120 billion in this green direction and that's where Europe's going when I meet people in the business community they realize that that actually is what they need to do because their shareholders the pension funds and others who invest in them will not work will not fund will not stick with companies that are ignoring the current the big issue crisis of our time which is climate change and biodiversity loss one of the area where Europe is going to be critical where we have to manage it on a north-south basis as well as east-west is in the whole future of Irish agriculture we think it has to be framed within a land use plan which is looking really ambitiously about how we develop new form of forestry that restores biodiversity as well as storing carbon critically we manage our peatlands this is an integrated European project because we'll have to stop the horticultural the extraction of peat for horticultural exports mainly to the Dutch growers to store that carbon in the ground and we will have to employ tens of thousands of people here to manage it and do it in a skilled way and in farming whoever's in government in the next year two years has a critical task of negotiating the reform of the common agricultural policy I sometimes you could be critical of the commission friends of mine and commissions themselves and say they're a bit they are a bit elite like I remember one side event climate change event in the mansion house and I was in the front door because I was a bit nervous would anyone turn up and the usual collection of greens were arriving in their duffel coats and whatnot and suddenly it was time when the presidency was on Ireland had it suddenly these people arrived that looked like elves arriving at Helms deep in Lord of the Rings they were cut from a cleaner cloth they were fine hair scarves perfectly placed over and I was looking myself on the door who are these it's the European Commission I realized but I think the commission itself and from working closely with us has recognized that this kind of breakdown of them and us this sense of top down elite actually isn't going to serve our union the union will work best now in a new way when actually it does give nations and local communities greater flexibility and authority to make our way in a way that works and I've seen that in the way the climate change European policy has been done I think it's correct the overall goal is set and then they're leaving it to national governments to decide what's best for your country to progress same in the common agricultural policy there's a recognition of the nine objectives the union wants to achieve which I think we all agree on in terms of getting better price for farmers restoring biodiversity improving water quality as well as having high quality food but they're leaving it up to governments national governments to come back with what their best way is ska was telling me to weekend I think it's correct that actually the current plans for cap reform are not ambitious enough but that does not hold us back from setting our course in a greener direction for our farmers and other land users as we go I'm only scheming over the whole variety of different issues but there's one other and I look forward to the questions that you may have and to answer them as to the best of my ability but there's a couple of other points I want to make and our vision of the European Union we've often I suppose in the past we've been very critical we voted against a lot of the treaties niece and Maastricht and going back in agents our party comes with four core principles one is that we have to take an ecological this comes from the start this comes from our first green party in Tasmania and still here today as our core principles the first is you have to take an ecological approach understanding how living systems are working and manage our policy to protect and restore those systems second principle is that social justice has to come in that transformation the two go together the third is that we are pacifists we believe that the way forward isn't through military might or endeavor and actually even when you come down to the local level the form of politics is important in terms not that you don't stick to your values and your ideas but that you treat others with respect the fourth is that we we trust people we trust democratic systems and we trust decision making at the lowest effective level heard Catherine Day in an interview she did to this house a few weeks ago saying something very similar the European Union has to learn how does it you know where does it make decisions that work and where is it best at national or indeed at local government level i want to go back to that third one the pacifist element because there is a real debate now in the future of europe and where we're going and there is voices for increasing expenditure in defence and kind of a fortress europe you might call a type approach i don't believe that will work i don't believe it actually suits our country to hitch our wagon to that sort of vision of the future i don't believe we can expand which we do need to do our funding of the common agricultural policy and expand as we need to do our investment in these new energy grid systems which really power europe and at the same time have a massive increase in defence expenditure i don't believe it would actually work in any case the only way the best way to secure our future is to work with our neighbors and indeed all countries in our union to actually stabilize the climate so that that ultimate big security risk does not come to place come to pass because if it does i don't see how we manage it how do we manage if what the i went to the post time institute with brendan five years ago from this house in berlin the best climate scientists of all stif and remsdorf and others showing us the work they were doing for the world bank what would the world look like in in a four degree temperature rise and i'll never forget as they turned over the work they were doing for the world bank and there was a map of india in front of us and the massive center of it was red red hot heat which means it would not be a habitable place the very center of india and the truth is what we're seeing happening in the world today is those sort of centers where people would not be able to stay mass migration would come is not just in india probably on our southern borders and including some of our own southern countries that will come to pass we have to make this work by following that same idea have about sharing power across northwest europe to actually using this new renewables and new economic system as an opportunity for every area to rise i am sorry if that sounds a bit hippie or a bit idealistic or a bit but i don't see a better security approach and for this country i think it fits our purpose it suits what it suits well with us in having that cooperative arrangement particularly with the range of countries to the south of us where we're asking each other for help rather than telling each other what to do that's one of the reasons i think maybe we've missed this opportunity in europe in the last 20 years last 10 years even that loss of faith in our liberal democratic systems i think the approach we did to reunification was great it was so good that we brought 10 countries in but did we do it in a way where we're slightly thinking we know best and you copy us and we tell you what to do i'm not surprising these people in those countries said actually we don't want to be told what to do we want to you know we have certain pride in our own identity and that's behind some of the populist rising that we're seeing so that frames what i think we should be doing in the european council or the voice we should have and i know it's shared by my german green colleagues and others who have a very good chance i hope of being in power in the next year and steering europe in that way we should have an honest and open debate about it but that's where we come from and i'm very conscious of time and i leave it at that and look forward to your questions um i'm last one thing i'd last last thing i'd say in a time of uncertainty in a time of great confusion maybe in politics i can ask this election with a sense of pride in our country and our people and our democratic system we have a good parliamentary democracy it gets a lot of abuse and a lot of rightful listen we can't press buttons and we're fobbing for all sorts of things but our political system and our constitutional system is strong if we manage we will manage we have to follow the constitution whoever's elected to go into that new chamber and we'll sit down and work together it may take some weeks or months now particularly with tipperary being uncertain but i'm confident that actually we can make the next step up i'm confident that going with this we politics and we've seen somewhat in the outgoing all agreement on our brexit approach agreement on slouching prayer agreement on the whole agreement on the climate we have made the first step by actually collectively saying yes there's an emergency and we will work together to solve it now at the time to take up that challenge help lead our people and that's what we seek to do thank you well ladies and gentlemen thank you first and foremost aim for that very wide spread and and thoughtful uh expose of of where we are at the moment and where we hope to get to together and we're now moving into questions and answers um and has agreed to take all questions everything is going to be on the record and if you are part first of all i'd like you those of you who want to speak to indicate your name and if you're affiliated to a particular organization that you feel important to notify to us to say that as well so i'm open for anybody who wants to speak you've stunned them into silence we do minutes i see yes there yourself thanks mark bennett speaking for myself in this context and when i started environmental science my mom used to say to people i was an environmentalist back then i would say no no environmental scientists somehow to apologize for being a little bit of a hippie let's say and i think what's wonderful i work with many young people now you know early stage professionals and they're no longer apologetic they're indignant and i think that's wonderful and much of what i've heard aim and talk about is um very competent very progressive very ambitious but i wonder sometimes we still apologize for environmentalism and i wonder hopefully are the grounds shifting now i was um just in response which said there are young people particularly very concerned and one of sometimes the concern i have is terrified would be the description underlying you know deep down a certain terror about when they hear and read the science of what's coming and i think the answer to that is important because if we're just frozen with fear we won't easily make the leap and we need to give our people a certain sense of confidence that we can do this and it leads you into very kind of um interesting waters in my mind because if we just talk about the technocratic aspect of it the sense of kind of gigawatts here or even i'm the worst culprit hv dc as soon as i've said those terms you've lost half the audience actually what it is the scale of change you to make in my mind is almost a leap in consciousness there's a leap in sense of our connection to nature and a connection to each other and i'm sorry if that sounds very hippie but actually i think it's the fun it's the key issue we did a lot of work particularly in the five years when i wasn't in the doll on a series of climate conversations when we were asking how do we tell this story and we came to the view that actually you have to win the hearts not just the heads that you have to listen to people and ask for the help rodent tell them what to do to admit uncertainty we don't know all how this is going to keep technology keeps changing and the economics keeps changing and sometimes we have to hasten slowly which is the most difficult because there's such a sense of urgency but sometimes if you go with that with you you frighten people and also you may make mistakes and ultimately the key narrative we were talking about is bringing this back home like there's so much a sense of these this huge big challenges and then but how does that and that's why I think people are switched off like have you changed your light bulbs and the world is burning it doesn't connect the way we connect it is by talking about our own homes our own place our own communities and actually doing this bottom-up as well as top-down and engaging people in that process you know I mean come out to us at the European Commission has realized that a wee politics is going to require a slightly different approach where they give governments and local government flexibility but similarly I think in the outgoing program for government outgoing government say the program for government I think was page 13 of what they said our form of public consultation is not working if it's a public sector to the communities it's slightly tick box and people don't feel that they're really been listened to or engaged and actually one of the things the next government has to do and it's not this doesn't belong to any party Phinegal and the independents recognized it in their last manifesto in the last program for government is actually to do this bottom-up and and really thinking global but acting global the advantage of this is in my mind the one of what is happening in the wide wider world if we're restoring nature and building community in our own areas it gives a certain sense of resilience it gives a sense of purpose it gives a sense that we can actually meet this challenge of breaking it down into bite-sized chunks and actually bringing it home how we prove people's homes how we move around how we get food how even the business community is not now the master of all it's serving the people business the role of business I come from business background I see business as a creative act which is connecting to supporting society not that society serves business and it's that change almost in philosophy are in psychology are in sense of connection and it's coming from right down close to the heart yourself that's what we it's it that's the story we have to tell that makes people feel yeah I'm part of this we're going to do our best this is going to be good for us and and I don't think there's any politics for that I think that's part of the politics we need now is a slightly different language around environmentalism and certainly away from the idea that this is something subset elsewhere the best person of all in those climate conversations we had was Tommy Tiernan in the abbey and Tommy and his own don't talk to me about the environment if at the very center isn't the human being the comedian had the best lines the best summary of what we need to be doing and that's what I've been trying to do thank you question there that young lady there yep um hi it's Claire from the Australian Embassy um just a question on global trade and trade in general I was just wondering if you are in support of the sort of ongoing negotiations between the EU at the minute with Australia and New Zealand amongst others and if you are you know from an Australian point of view these are really negotiations and trade or trade that would support services but there's obviously a lot of concerns within the agricultural community in Ireland so how you would navigate that if you were in support of the negotiations and if you aren't in support of the negotiations could you elaborate on why not we think the future economy it isn't just going to be all local this won't work if it's not under the UNFCCP powers climate agreement and and the rules and the implementation of that is critical and not just the rules in the Paris Agreement but backup agreements like the task force and climate change financial disclosure Dan you and your colleague over in in Deloitte's recently speaking about that those sort of basic rules of accounting have to change so that the full cost of environment the full externalities of any business activity is taken into account that's coming that's inevitable because as I say this is such a huge challenge that threatens everyone business cannot keep going the same old way and for us there is real advantages about taking technology from different parts of the world and the benefits of trade and I watched in preparing for this I went back to look at the questioning of Commissioner van der Leiden in the European Parliament by her own group and I remember her speaking on that about looking at some sort of carbon carbon coming into the trading arrangements not just in aviation and shipping but but in other areas and I if I'm reading her correctly in terms of where they want to go and I think that's correct Europe one of the reasons why you would want to get into the European Council and European Parliament is Europe has the scale and the ability to set new standards to set the rules and I don't think we should be any way ashamed or embarrassed in Europe of setting high standards on environmental standards to try and change the entirety of global trade and you do that with all governments I'd have to say in Australia you know the agricultural trading with Europe but in the same event I was talking about down someone was making the point Australia now is real difficulty because increasingly Australia they can't get insurance to cover crop failure because climate change is so real and so devastating in its effect and actually in our discussions are that thinking it's all just going to be the same and it's all going you know Australia or Brazil or other locations are not going to have difficulties because the climate change is missing the real big picture of what's happening and I don't and I think there is also I mean I was at the climate summit sorry to say this but Australia was dinosaur a fossil fuel dinosaur of the day pretty much every day because its own government is not stepping up to the plate it's not alone Japanese government are meeting the papers today saying they want to build is a 20 new coal fired power stations that's coal fired power stations that will pollute the environment for us all and we do have to start stepping up and calling out governments that are not willing to really abide by the Paris climate agreement I think one of the roles this government or this country could do again supporting the European Union in the next side supporting the UK government in the next year working with their head of COP26 I think isn't it in Glasgow and actually putting our diplomatic shoulders the wheel in getting every country to start backing up the Paris climate agreement and for those who are not that they have to be called out because if we do not heed and and implement the Paris agreement in my mind we will not be able to manage this change we will be putting all our people in such incredible security risk and I think the detail is in the agreement remember when it was been signed one of the Irish civil servants saying to me hope it isn't shortened it wasn't it is there is a legal document which shows out how each government should trade and work in this way but we cannot abandon it if it's not adhered to by next November we're in deep trouble I hope Australia will step up to the plate thank you any other questions yes now I'm there please John Ishaen UCD Energy Institute and Greenlink Interconnector AM and thank you very much for some very interesting thoughts the scenario you set out for offshore wind is truly staggering so in the context that you think of Moneypoint our biggest station is less than one gigabyte so I'm just wondering what you think are the the most important things we need to do over the next two three years to actually make it happen I mean you're talking about the European level resource not just an Irish resource you asked my chosen subject Johnny and I think the you and the work that I've done gives me confidence because we have engineers of real capability we need good engineering at the center of this and we need political support for good engineering and the engineering is I Mark Ferguson the head of science foundation Ireland community recently looking for advice and what should they be investing in answered the really big questions that face our country and the first one is how do we transfer 30 gigawatts of power into the northwest European electricity market how do we best manage that and we've done a lot of work on this that Iles project we did 10 years ago at the work that I would have done the European Commission is is absolutely committed to it I know from personal experience the German government and French and Dutch and even and uneven and the British governments are committed to this 30 gigawatts sounds a lot five six times our current power use as we speak probably but actually the scheme of things that's that's what we need to do there will be two or three hundred gigawatts going into the North Sea one of the things I was proud to have done in the European Council when it was on it I just a critical small change instead of the North Sea offshore grid initiative which was meant to be I changed it to the North Sea's offshore grid initiative recognizing that the wind resource we have particularly in the northwest and west is actually a huge resource for you for Europe because when you have these like we have today high pressure probably over the center of Europe there's still wind in the northwest and we have a comparative competitive advantage in that Brendan Halligan used to put it the way he was interested in this idea that it's similar to that opportunity we recognize back in the 60s that the comparative advantage we have in grass growth led to Kerrygold and the Irish agricultural industries well we similarly have a comparative advantage in wind offshore wind particularly and it's just an engineering question now as to how we trap it and critically the grid being central how we move it around and that's difficult engineering but my experience I don't want to be name and name so I criticize again but remember when we first set the higher renewable target of 40 percent one of the top best engineers grid engineers the country has told me you're mad you'll never get more than 800 megawatts on an Irish system it's not physically possible we went ahead anyway and lo and behold what we have today but four gigawatt three four gigawatts in our system I think we learn by doing I think we should first and foremost go to the european commission the next government and the european council and say as part of our role in addressing europe's climate we will do this as a european project and bring in all the expertise and the same time we do it we do marine protected areas I would go 50 percent the commission is saying 30 percent but we actually take huge chunks of the northwest Atlantic and actually start restoring biodiversity there while having floating turbines on top and we get our best scientists as our contribution the second thing I said to mark Ferguson we don't know exactly what's going on in the north atlantic it's a critical question for the world as to what's happening with the circulation system and the by and the ecosystem there I know mark mallet head of our armed services is actually very interested in this and I think the navy and our marine research agencies have a real role at the same time as we put the engineering technology in we put all our research science in as a global project to see what's happening in the northwest Atlantic what's happening with ecosystems what's happening with the as the ice melt comes down from the from the Arctic and as the circulation system weakens it's that scale of ambition we should have thank you very much there's a question here thank you very much and who know do I remember of the institute you've spoken how about the need for connecting with the people in order to convince them to follow the green ambition for a proper challenge to our proper approach to climate change as you've set it out a few days ago here me hall martin spoke in general with regard to the future convention on the future of europe about the need for connecting with the people also in a more general way in in order to meet the challenges of populism about which you also spoke and other challenges to our democratic system do you think that the green way of bottom up connectedness approach can be used also in this more general context of the future of europe I was shoring the future of europe and by the way how about how are you going to persuade the east europeans to follow the green way of thinking thank you it's talking to my colleague kirin koff earlier asking me for advice before coming here new MEP um want to answer that last question first want the how do we avoid the mistakes in terms of european one of the things I believe in we should be advancing with real honesty and speed the expansion of the union further east and southeast Serbia Albania very masonia various countries I think if we play this as a defensive locking everyone out we we go no further that'll send out a terrible message and I think we should learn maybe some of the mistakes from the past in terms of not allowing local flexibility in new countries coming in so that those new countries don't see it as a punitive we know best top down to the way um so I think it does have to be those sort of big strategic decisions have to be taken it now that's european council not the council a minute what's kind general affairs council I guess but that's at the highest level I think particularly for our country where my experience in the european council was we're in a unique position we're not know at all fancy dance like the scandinavians we're not the old imperial powers of the big central countries we now we play it every which way but but but we do have a good role we I found I could get on well with the Baltic states and friends from Bulgaria or others if just there's something in our culture that actually we could have a unique role we don't have some of the historic baggage that maybe make make other countries fearful of that expansion and I think we should start maybe with that big high level ambition we keep our union expanding and in diversity there will be strength thank you question here hi my name is Patrick Moore I'm speaking in a personal capacity but I work for the national treasury management agency um maybe a couple of comments and one question um I'll be voting green number one and it's the first time I'll have ever done that however everything you spoke about I firmly believe in entirely and I guess the reason why I vote number one today is it's the first time I feel politics really is at the point of coming mainstream for green and have a real impact so while all the political parties would echo the kind of comments you're saying amen I don't believe there's any part that will hold them to account to switch from rhetoric to action other than the greens and for that reason I think this is different um my question relates more bringing you back grounded to where you might sit in a few weeks time and actions on a very local level you know we might raise more taxes to do bigger things and all the big stuff but resources in government to actually bring about the change so for instance the offshore wind point and any other sector it needs resources in different government departments capable of bringing through the measures that are imagined under the climate action plan so in my role for example we're approved to invest not spend invest 500 million to a billion of taxpayers money in the transition to net zero and so that brings me to interact with many different government departments and what I find is that while I find many capable individuals there aren't enough of them to actually execute upon that change so one of the cheapest things I think we can do which isn't requiring a lot of taxpayers money is simply put the right resources in the right places to make a difference and while I don't offer up any kind of support for the politics of dominant commons as an individual to affect change in the civil service he seems to be very good at that and I wonder if you would see any parallels for an irish version of that to emerge okay can I just very quickly if I can just go through the funding side of that because it's it's rightly asked all the time and what we're saying in terms of funding this transition it's about switching funding with our own capital budget in transport way from roads towards public transport in cap away from industrial farming to less extensive it is about issuing green bonds we've done that twice now and very successful very low rates that's where the international finance money is going to it's not doing tax cuts you're promising to cut every tax and then potentially raise some very uncertain taxes on intangible assets is not my mind going to work it is also about using that private capital budget going back to Danny McCoy's speech here that you know that is a budget that we can it the public budget is nine eight billion that's a hundred and twenty billion or to him well let's get that working on our side but also to go back to his point and I said this I was interviewed by Pat Kenny on news talk this morning and I was again following up his call for a bigger state and I'm coughing kind of but you don't mean civil servants he said and I said I do we do need actually civil servants capability to do the sort of scalar thing we need to do to plan that grid to plan the public transport infrastructure to plan the cap reform it has to be done by civil servants and I'll take an example the department I knew the best department of climate change communications climate action environment is called now I think it only is about 250 civil servants dealing with the entirety of our climate change transition the entirety of european energy policy the entirety of digital policy which on its own you could do a 250 civil servants working so now part of that will be transforming people from other government departments to war it can't be just heap on everywhere but it does need more civil servants and stop if we believe in public service particularly from the left as I come from we stop denigrating public servants because how can you have faith the public faith behind this message if you're on the one hand saying we need more state and then the other time you say the state isn't up to it we also need though within the public service to introduce and the willingness to fail and then not a scared conservative tick box covering your ass kind of approach it has to be willing to take risks and fear that you're not going to end up excoriated in prime time two months later for having made a mistake we have to be willing to innovate and to be flexible and tolerate people taking certain risks and it's that culture from the start it needs to go back to as well what what Whitaker did from the center it has to start in public expenditure reform and finance they have to be willing to start taking some risks and start setting that chute of innovation in the public service but it also needs more public civil servants because we can't cope as Danny McCoy said we need the state to be slightly bigger to make it work make it happen thank you there's a question there to yourself thank you John Cross is a personal question that I was formally in the National Parks and Wildlife Service where I had particular interest and responsibility for native woodlands and forestry like all the other parties Aimee and you have said that we must increase our area of forestry but the every government has said targets in the past and they have never yet been met and at the moment planting levels are the lowest ever and one of the reasons for that is that farmers are very resistant to change despite the very general grants they get um just in relation to that I read recently that scientists a scientist was quoted as saying that scientists are very good at facts and figures but they're not very good with persuading people and they're not trained to do that and I just wonder what's your response to that is would be and how would you manage to persuade people to change their attitudes to confront the problems of climate change you're right to say but farmers that's a lot of time talk to farmers and what you mentioned the word forestry they grow um one of the ways I think we could change the government in the last budget set aside a significant amount of capital for breaks of preparations and a lot of that my mind is probably going towards the food industry probably targets to a lot of companies who are going to be in difficulty if they're if we don't get a functioning trade deal I would prefer to take something like 500 million euro of that estimate rough estimate of the cost and go to every single farmer and say we want you to plant a hectare of native woodland as a way of providing us corridors of native species and also as a way of storming carbon fuel for the farm into the future but also critically to win over and to bring into the fold that farming community and I think there's broad agreement around that now it's true what you say this goes back to from the ideas into doing the truth is our forestry sector is on its knees at the moment you can't get planning permission to open up a road you can't get plan permission to get a clearfelling license or even a forestry license so it needs to scale up and I think to scale up from roughly 4 000 hectares to about 20 000 hectares is the scale of forestry I think we should be going for within a land use plan where maps out which wetlands will be rewetted which areas for forestry what type of forestry and from my mind it is a radical shift away from clearfelling monoculture towards continuous cover close to nature forestry it's a long-term project take time to set it up take time to get the real value from that but I believe that's where we to go because that helps address the biodiversity crisis which is just as significant as the climate crisis I got into a lot of trouble when I mentioned the word wolves once in a radio program while ago because I was trying to explain that concept the poetic focus you speak so well about from the National Wildlife Trust to say actually a lot of it will be letting forests come up themselves and managing how do you manage your basic species how do we manage that kind of overgrazing of those native forests coming back and it was just that that was the reason I kind of got into lots of trouble in it but it was trying to make the point that really the scale of our ambition in restoring biodiversity should be just as great as it is in climate change and the two go together because we're wetting our bogs with store carbon and bring back nature nature going to continuous cover forestry we'll restore nature and store carbon and this is the two go together and you're right our forestry sectors in chaos at the moment but quiets have started they've started a new section within it's only five million euro section I would turn the entire business in that way thank you is there any over there the corner please thank you Swiss is where is my name I am the member of the institute could I ask you to stand up so we can hear you better please thank you Swiss is where is my name and I am the member of the institute I just want to ask about the affordability of energy in terms of people what is your plan in making energy available affordable for poor people people who lives below poverty line and you equate a housing with transport we hear all the time that people should stop driving use public transport public transport which is not there by the way especially in rural areas and I haven't heard you talking about how you plan to address that I come from a transport campaigning background before I went into politics and I always had this sense that moving away from car dominated system to one which is really promotes walking cycling and public transport is because that actually is a social project it the people with the least income often cannot afford either the car or the public transport services so it has to be this is what you're saying every place matters every community matters it has to be solutions for rural communities as well as urban and that requires a massive shift that's why we say we're shifting away from the roads budget to public transport because currently we have 51 major national motorways and roads projects in construction or in planning we do not have a single major public transport project in planning and I've been 30 years waiting for us to start addressing cycling and making it safe and I see nothing happen yet can I just go back to the wider issue about energy poverty and in the looking after our homes come back to speaking earlier on and retrofitting and and one of the advantages and what give people a sense of hope in our political system why I stand up for it is we now have agreement in the political system the old party rock this commission on climate action we looked in this in detail and said yes one of the key projects we all agree on is retrofitting the about 1.5 million homes that are very energy inefficient and actually putting on insulation putting on solar panels putting in a heat pump it's expensive it's a 50 billion euro project we also need to address our social housing at the same time indeed start there and learn from that to how we ploy it to the other houses the great prize in this um it's firstly it's making healthier homes for people and but you come down in the morning and a cold morning like this and the kitchen is warm it's an incredible difference it's a subtle thing but it's hugely beneficial to people's health and well-being and sense of comfort and security also it avoids and gets rid of the key issue of fuel poverty because if we really achieved it if we made every single home really the energy efficient kept the heat in we won't have to pay fossil fuel bills and that's the best way to protect people from fuel poverty it will take 20 years but we're all agreed on this we are all agreed that the transition that all the political parties and that's come back to us at the very start about when you get this consensus Ireland can be good at making changes so we've consensus on this there are technical variations in terms of whether it's carbon tax or not but that's not the big picture we do need a carbon tax but but the consensus is that we will do this and it's and we have to make it a just transition social justice has to come with ecological justice at the same time and it's the only debate in the political sphere is is how you actually do it some of the other parties have vision manifestos that don't set that out it's not an easy thing to do but i don't think whoever forms next government can ignore it because the other risk is if we did ignore it and keep going the way we're going we would end up paying the european union or something like seven billion euro fines from the commitments we're entered into and we will not be allowed off the hook on this so i'd prefer to spend the seven billion now starting in our homes improving people's health and security at the same time and critically housing and transport go together so that it's not just people warm home but that you have a way of getting around which is safe and affordable for all thank you very much amen i'm going to put a question to you that i put two three of the other five speakers and i'll put that to you now our neighbors and our friends and our relatives and the other island off the west coast of europe have gone through a traumatic five or six year period of which brexit and the the boat was simply the latest manifestation of it i think they are emotionally battered and bruised but they're still our neighbors how would you if you're a member of the government how would you propose to reconstruct a relationship between britain and ireland north and south to get them back into the space where we actually can work together because we have so much in common together can i give you an example of what we've done the last year or two because as as a media comes to my mind we wrote in the joint talks communications committee to the house of commons committee that was looking at the issue of disinformation fake news back at the on and as a result of what happened to brexit the the influence of social media on that campaign Cambridge Analytica and we went to the house of commons and we sat down with them in terms of working trying to agree what is the approach that democracies take to that and it is in that every day you know yourself worry it's the lived experience of just meeting people getting on and we did that quite deliberately my mind about my interest in it was to maintain relations and not just in the obvious negotiation centers but in those sort of ways right um with regard to them and so we need to do that at scale everywhere on energy and all and all these issues can't be left to mr barnier to negotiate the 10 areas that have to be agreed as well as with including the free trade agreement i i think we should be proactively involved with our good relations with the house of commons to our scottish and welch colleagues the british arch council and beyond to really maintain human relations up north and this is obviously very central stage in our own debate here at the moment my colleague claire bailey head of green part of northern ireland has said we should be careful around avoiding the mistakes they made in the uk if we rush a referendum the way they rush brexit where you don't really know what's the right question to ask and you don't certainly know the outcome but depending on what the answer of that question is we just make the same mistake that they made so i agree with her and i think our role particularly as an all island party and we have very good relationship with our within the european green party of our uk colleagues but particularly up north i think ourselves and other parties have a real responsibility has been genuinely completely cross community and not identity politics in that unionist versus nationalist way and i think um i mean we you know work with chin fein and it's not a you know we have a history of working with all parties so i'm not being critical of them and that but i think claire is right she's kind of she she confuses everything because she grew up in the folds road went to then a mixed community up in north andrum went off to holland for a while people don't know what to make of her the fact that she had to go into the assembly and declare what she was i think she put any colleges or feminists rather than the kind of identity politics on the other side i think we have a particular responsibility working with all parties up north to actually approach this issue that's coming inevitably out of the brexit process in a way that avoids the mistakes they made in the uk thank you there's a question over here thank you um michelle greppatz trinity college doubling political science um i have a question i mean it's very practical and it does necessarily concern brexit but i think it's kind of important to underline this so um your green agenda requires a large state intervention and an investment in infrastructure and we know from past experiences in europe but also in ireland that this often creates opportunities for conflict of interest and corruption and i would like to know if you think that ireland and other european countries are well equipped to guarantee that these resources are used in a transparent and efficient way and if not what specific policies would be needed in order to ensure like integrity in such a radical change thank you i can speak to i cannot speak to other countries experience because i don't have knowledge i do have knowledge here we have a history of corruption and a planning system that did huge damage to our country is leaving huge long-term costs in the form of long-distance commutes and lack of services connected to housing and so on so it's not we're not without that risk um i think the one of the best ways of i'm particularly interested in the whole issue of digital policy work we did here in the institute and bringing in international speakers was was hugely informative for me and one of the best ways of avoiding that corruption coming back is to completely open government data systems where there's absolute transparency on every single contract where if there's a ballard up the road where someone's digging a hole for a fermented pipe that you could look straight online and say that's paddy murphy construction group there's here's the contract arrangements here's the that level now you have to be careful around privacy and but i think the basic concept Brent Hamlin is working this on the last time in his office and i remember heard him speaking it but open government transparency around data is one of the best ways of securing against that sort of corruption and from the smallest job right to the biggest and we're not immune we shouldn't be complacent but i'll be honest in my experience i happened in my lifetime i know people i my business career or my political career i've never had to approach someone approach me and ask for something that's untoward maybe i missed read something maybe someone was winking and i that's why i stand by a democracy that's why i think we strengthen even independent legal system we have to protect and retain an independent media system and we have a constitutional democratic system that oversees that that protects people's rights but we should not be complacent we should ensure transparency as our guard dog against us falling back to ways that we did see in my living amendment thank you there's a question over here yes please you can stand up so that we can see you thank you thank you chair tom ferris life member the institute it's really to add on to the question that was asked in mid-december and i think it got lost in the christmas period the new public spending code was published which has new requirements robust requirements and a particular on capital projects the need to publish at different stages not at the final stage preliminary business business stage etc so that when it takes two to tango there is a mechanism there if it's used by government departments can i can i i've been supportive and defending of the public service which i am but i do want to present another review in a way that in terms of spending in the public code and public procurement we've known about climate change for 30 40 years we've known the need to price carbon for the similar length of time i must admit i've been just slightly distraught in recent years when i realized in asking pascal donnie about this that our price of carbon we're applying to public infrastructure project was up until the recent months was something like eight euros a ton which was reckless and i also in this climate rafters committee that we've set up i must be honest it was truly shocking when we asked the secretary general from the department of climate change communications climate action environment what assessment was made in the recent national development plan of climate effect of the plan and the answer was none there was no assessment of climate in a national development plan there was only agreed a year and a half ago and i asked the secretary general department of transport what is the project to transport emissions for 2030 we don't we don't know was the answer so part of our job there's a necessary tension between the political system and the public service system it's not a bad tension it is like guest minister you get used to that and deal with it and it's not out of disrespect but part of my job and our job is to hold a public sector account and i believe in terms of how we've assessed our public expenditure particularly we've completely failed the national development plan is written is not fit for purpose it has to go that's the scale of change that we would go into any negotiations seeking to make and that's not an easy thing to say i don't mean to be critical of individuals but that's the truth as i see it and i don't think we're serving our people if we stick to that way thank you very much i think on behalf of the audience that i can express their appreciation and my own appreciation for the the breath and the knowledge that you've displayed and the humility with which you've explored it like the audience present to show their appreciation in the normal way