 Hello and welcome to the Iklif Leadership and Governance Centre's Leaders Room. Today with us is Helen Reed. Helen Reed is the founder of Ms. Reed Fashion Brand, which designs and sells women's plus size clothes in boutiques throughout Malaysia. A homemaker and entrepreneur, she has started four companies such as Q Corporation in 1979 and Ms. Reed in 1997, which together will generate more than 25 million ringgits in revenue this year and provide jobs for over 200 people. Among the businesses set up by Ms. Reed are familiar names such as Delicious, the Ms. Reed Shops, Dute and Duchess and the big group which is now run by her son Benjamin Yong. Welcome to the Leaders Room Helen. Helen, when you were growing up in Ipoh, you were leading a life that many would call very privileged, being chauffeured around in cars and living in bungalows with swimming pools. Now, with a life that seemed to be set for you, what made you into an entrepreneur? Well, that was by chance. After I got married, I met a friend who was wanting to start a business, manufacturing clothes, and she was short of 9,000. So she said, Helen, can you lend me the money? So I did. And she, out of her kind soul, gave me shares in return. And that was for Q Corporation, a manufacturing company which I still own till today. And what happened was, a couple of years later when my marriage broke down, Q Corporation became my lifeline to support me, you know, give me an income. And so in a way, that's how I went into business. You didn't have any formal training, you know, in finance or accounting or law, or any such thing, but what was that spark that actually said that, hey, I'm actually quite good at this? Well, that was many years down the road. When I first started, it was like paying everybody else and paying myself last. Most probably, most months I had only about $400 for myself. But I never knew that I was doing a business. It was really just every day going to work to make clothes for all these department stores that placed orders and providing an income for the people that worked together with me. At that time, it was just nine of us. And one day it grew into a big business. So what was it that kept you going then in that sense? So there was one discipline I really had to learn because in the early days as a single mother, when I finished work, I had a lot of problems. Rather than take it home with me, I had this physical exercise. As I leave the office and shut the door, all my problems are locked in the room. And then I go back to my family and I don't think about my work. And everything is at home, you know, work problems. I mean, home problems, whatever it is. When I leave the home in the morning, it remains at home and I go to work. So in a way, I have learned to separate that life so well that now the children all have this standing joke that mum cannot think without her shoes on. Because when I'm at home, I don't think about work at all. And so when they talk to me about work, I just say, ah, can't we talk about that tomorrow? I can't think without my shoes on. So it is a standing joke at home. Is this an advice you would give to a lot of our modern ladies who are trying to juggle between home and life and career? Yes. What are some of the lessons that you could impart on those ladies? I think that when we are with our children, we really have to enjoy them because the time goes so fast. You know, before you know it, like, Benjamin is 37. You know, and time has gone by so fast. So when they're young, you're only there for that moment because they enjoy them because one day they've all grown up. So how do you separate it where you said you just closed the door and everything's left behind? Yes. But in this modern world where you're constantly connected, how do you close the door? Well, at home, I don't open my laptop. I mean, like, now they're trying to all grow up because my time is my own. They've all left the nest. I mean, so when I watch TV, I will have my laptop on because, you know, some of these programs are a bit slow. The shows are a bit slow, so I'm doing two things at the same time. So, yeah, I mean, I think each one has to work out a system for themselves. There's no hard and fast rule. There's no right or wrong way. Because if you're somebody who loves to be connected and asks you to do that, it's a real punishment to sort of shut off your phone, shut off your emails just to spend time each one. You have to devise a way, you know. You mentioned earlier on that your corporation was the lifeline after the breakdown of your first marriage and also there was a financial crisis that was threatening foreclosure of your company. Now, in most circumstances, most people would have crumbled. How did you manage to just maintain it and keep the cost? Well, the thing was that was in the early 80s when I experienced my first recession. That was really a really bad one. I don't know whether you were born yet, but the Emporium Groups were all closed and eventually converted to Parkson Group. But a lot of the businesses shut down and I had a lot of businesses with Emporium Groups, so I almost shut down with them. But I don't know, that's why I think within each of us we have a strength that sometimes during difficult times like that you are pushed to that limit and you just go on. And so that's what happened to me because I had to write to the bank because the bank was threatening foreclosure. The Emporium Group owed me $200,000 and I owed the bank about $200,000 at that time. And so they threatened foreclosure. So what I did was I wrote a letter to them asking them to give me a chance because what forced me to do that was because I was thinking of all these people that worked together with me in the factory. They would all be without jobs and a lot of them, the women, were main income owners. So I always think of my role as providing a rice bowl for all these families. And so I think that was that push that I needed to write to the bank because those days I am so timid. Asked me if I wanted to talk to a banker, I would say, oh, I'd rather do something else. But it forced me to do that and wrote the letter and I must say, this is why sometimes I really admire our Malaysian banks because they have that kindness. And so they said, yes, they gave me one year with 12 post-dated checks to repay the loan and we continue. Of course at that time to make that payment for the 12 each check that came every month was very tough. But the Lord helped us with all that because this is why I have this strong belief that God helps us. And I'm never so clever or so great that I can do without Him. What's the role of belief or even strength in spirituality and faith in contributing to the path of success for any person? I believe our relationship with God is everything. It governs us completely in our lives like for me as a mother at home, as a boss at work, as a friend among my friends. And so with God in our lives, everything becomes very simple. There's no airs about anything because when it really comes down to it, it's how God guides us, how He leads us to be better people, to make an impact on the community He put us in. Like at my work, I always call my work era a community. We're working together to do better, to provide lovely clothes for our customers. You think of a garment. You think it's just a garment hanging on the hanger but it has gone through so many processes. At least 15 people have touched it and together on its way. Our team of designers are full of creativity. How would a garment come out so beautifully done? So it's all the people involved but of course to get the right people involved, because somebody recently asked me what's your most challenging role in your business? I said finding the right person for the right job because when they are happy in that job, they really do very well. Like my head designer, she does so well because she really enjoys designing. And so that's one of the biggest challenges. So when I want to interview, I always say a prayer, God bring me the right person. And that's how we have a really strong team. And a young team, because as I face myself out, the company is ready with this young team. In your statements, words like kindness, community, altruism, it's peppered throughout all of your words. What is this role of this softer, nicer aspect in a modern business nowadays? Because nowadays it's all about cutthroat and it's all about just getting to the top and taking no prisoners. What's your thoughts on that? Maybe there's not such a good business. I'm not a business person. I'm not screwed enough. I'm not clever enough and I'm not sharp enough. But anyway, the thing is, I plod along and my team plods along with me. I think because I always see my role as building people. The people who come to me, a lot of times they are broken. And so when they normally start the job with me, it's really tough because they don't trust me and they think I'm out to get something from them and all that. So when they come, a lot of times it's that molding and in a way teaching them it's safe to be here. It's safe to be yourself, because none of us are perfect and sometimes your weakness becomes a strength in that team. You know, like one of our young designers joined us a few years ago and she always had this... What's the word? Insecurity. She always felt she was not good at the job and she always apologised. Until one day I said, you stop apologising. Stop this. And I talked to her about her talents, her strength, how she combines those colours and every day I enjoy watching her when she comes to work her clothes, what she wears, how she combines. It inspires me. And I tell you, after that, she never apologised and she speaks out. So that's what I see my role as molding people. Like, yeah, I'm a mother. Abby calls me mother. And that's the role I really love. I really am grateful to God for the role of being a mother. Is that how you would describe your leadership style? Nurturing and the role of being a mother figure in that sense? Yes. But I won't let anyone call me mother. Except Abby and my children. But anyway, they all do that. In fact, we have a group of deaf and dumb people. I don't know what's the politically correct word, but I call them as it is. And they always call me this. They call me this, which means like mother with a bun in there. Bun, sorry. Mother with a bun. So that's how they describe it, because they can't speak. And so, yeah. I know behind my back, all my staff call me mother. In Chinese, they call me mother. Or mother's coming, you know. So, yeah, I like it. In fact, a lot of my children's friends come and they tell me they are my adopted children, which makes it lovely for me. Years ago, I watched a movie, The Joy Luck Club. And there was one part in the movie that really touched my heart to see the mother, the aunties cooking together in the kitchen they were, and the young girls, and they were chatting. So recently, when we were doing this photo shoot for our new cookbook, there was a moment when I observed, and I saw Abby and myself and these two young girls, these friends of my daughter in the kitchen, they were all helping us, and I was telling Abby, this is a Joy Luck Club moment. How wonderful is this? And, yeah. So that's what I enjoy. I enjoy interacting with different ones, different ages, and I don't just mix with people of my age. Yeah, so... It's interesting that you've been describing your family as... Your company, I even said it, your company as a family, like with you as the matriarch in that sense. There are a lot of benefits to that, but also there are some proponents where people say, working in a family company, there's just no way for us to get to the top, because, you know, the top positions are always reserved for the family members, and in your case, your son, who's very, very, very successful, and also your close friend, Abby. What's your thoughts on that about family-run companies? Family is family, and when they're in the office, they are part of a team. And remember how I can lock my problems in the office when I leave? The same thing. I can do the same at the office. I somehow have this ability, God-given, that I don't see them as my daughter, because my second son is also in the business. He does the graphic designs for all our magazines. I don't see them as my son or my daughter. I see them as part of this team. And so when they don't perform, or they will still get that, you know, chiding, and I've also assured some of my senior staff that if they can't perform, they would have to leave. But if they continue to perform, why not? They were born into my family, and for me, I have a successor. You know, they always say, you must plan succession. And I think that's very, very important. I can't leave the company suddenly without a leader. And so this period, my daughter has joined me for two years. My second son, Benedict, has made me four years. And so I'm there overseeing them and making sure, and they are allowed to make mistakes. It's not that they have this pressure that they can't, because I make those mistakes when I started the company. And so they are allowed to, but it's enjoyable to sit beside and watch them grow and watch them flourish, and to tell me they really love their job. So, yeah. So there's also a possibility that they may not leave the company one day. What are the pitfalls that you would, you know, your advice other people in your situation, leading family-owned companies to avoid, or at least, you know, which would raise the red alarm? Family members must be treated as team members. They don't get any extra privileges. They work as a team. I think the importance, I mean, like for me, is to treat them as individuals, because I also do not assume, because they're my children, that I can just force them to work till 10 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night, or give unreasonable demands. I treat them the same way as I treat every member of my team. I don't send out instructions after 6. We don't have meetings at 5. We finish on the dot at 6, and my children are expected to finish at 6 too. Everybody finishes at 6, because I believe that everyone must go home in time to see their children, spend some time, have dinner with them. And so, for years, in fact, recently we had a new girl join our team, and she used to work till 9, 10 o'clock every night, so when we said, you have to leave, 6 o'clock they're shutting the doors, she was shocked, she said, what am I going to do with the time? And she told us the next day, when she got home, her daughter was asking, Mum, why are you home so early? You know, so for me, when she told me that, I was saying, yeah, this is the right way. This is the right way, because children need to see their mothers. Most organisations find it very difficult to sort of align all of their employees towards a common purpose and a common passion. What more, when dealing with your own children, how do you go about having that one point of focus where everybody can steer towards? Because it's always about the business, it's always about mystery, it's always about dude and duchess. It's not about whether Benedict can do this or not, whether Christie, or whether who feels like doing what. It's always about the business, and it's always about everybody in the business. We have to care for everybody, because when one of us makes a mistake, everybody suffers. And so that's the focus. It's always about the business. It's not about whether how good you are, how not good you are. Because I always feel with all our flaws and everything and our talents, we put them together, they become the team behind mystery. We think a lot, we discuss a lot, we have a lot of meetings, every week, once a week, we have our HOD meetings where we will share ideas and trash out. And because they have been with me for a long time, people dare to speak up. And when they don't speak up that much, I will pose them questions and ask what they think. And credit to them, they always have an answer. So, yeah. You have described yourself, and if I may summarize, it's like an accidental leader. What do you think about, do you believe that leaders are born or made? I don't think anyone is born anything. We have come out, come into the world as babies, and we absorb our environment. And yet, we can change, because born in an environment where, I had lots of privileges and lots of love and care, and having the opportunity to study overseas, the environment makes you, in a way, because, as I said, when I first started business, I'm timid. I'm gentle, I don't know anything much, but when that problem came and I rose to that occasion, I had to write that letter, it changed me. And in a way, I never became scared of bankers. When I went for meetings with them and they said, oh Helen, you need to diversify. I would say to their face, diversify into what? This is all I know, how to make clothes. You want me to do land deals, develop houses? I don't know. All my money goes into this business. And so, yeah, so I've had some good talks with different ones, because I've overcome that fear. So it is about facing your fear and just going through with it. Just do it. Like, when I became a single mother and I was invited for cocktail events, fashion shows and all. It's easier to say, I'm not afraid I'll just stay at home, but I forced myself because I was so timid and shy. I said, no, I will go. And you know how difficult to stand in a place with a drink and nobody's come to speak to you? Do you know how difficult it is? It's very, very difficult. I forced myself to do it time and again, time and again until I felt, all right, I've learned this enough. I can do this. That's why I learned to eat in restaurants alone. I learned to do a lot of things alone. Even to this day, some days, I would just take the day off and wander in the malls alone because it makes me see things better, makes me observe. And as I'm observing, I'm also processing and thinking. So I've overcome that. What's your advice for some of those people who are facing their fears at this point of time? How would they be able to find the strength to go past that? Depends on how determined you are. Some fears don't need to be faced. I'm scared of ghosts, but I'm not going to go into a haunted house to just face the fears. But what happens is I pray. I go into a hotel room. I don't know what's there or whatever. I pray before I go into the room. I ask God to help me, to protect me. Everywhere I go when I'm fearful, I ask the Lord to help me. So that's why a lot of times we can overcome that fear because when you're walking alongside and you know God is with you, you become brave. I would term that you are very lucky to have found your passion in cooking and also in fashion and have been able to successfully transform that into a very successful business. Now how would you advise people to find their passion and to recognize it and to do something with it? A lot of times it comes right down to a simple thought. You have to be very honest with yourself. What do you like? What is life giving? When you go to work, what makes you excited about going to work? Because I've been in the business for 34 years and I can say I'm excited to go to work every day. I don't know what's in store for me every day and that's how exciting it is to go to work. Of course I know some meetings are already arranged but the thing is I don't know how the meetings will turn out. So the important thing is to be honest with yourself. What do you like? What's life sapping? What's life sapping which you really don't like? You've got to get rid of that. Of course for me there are some things I have to do that are life sapping but because I do so much life giving that life sapping one, two things I can live with because I do a lot of things that I love. Does that answer the question? Yes. As a leader and as a mother leader if that's a... Oh, I've coined it. Yes, thank you. Your employees and your team actually derive a lot of their energy from you. So they actually derive that from you. How do you keep yourself, you know, your gas tank filled in order for you to keep on giving out that energy to your whole team? Well to be honest with you Zachary I don't give my team members energy. I'm not responsible for them in that way. I energize myself every day or you use that word energize. I build myself every day because I spend time with God. I pray. I read the Bible and I pray for all my team members. I pray for their families. I pray for sometimes their prayer needs that are given to me. I pray for those. I pray also for my own family and I pray for our business. I pray for our customers. You know, because when I go to a shop and I see a customer buy things like yesterday I was at Pavilion and I saw this, one of my old customers walking and she said, I'm going to London for holiday and I wasn't there for a long time but after I left in the afternoon my staff texted me and said, oh, she bought 30 pieces. You know, that's so exciting. So I pray for my customers that they really continue to enjoy the clothes they buy and the food they eat and so that's how I keep energy going and not only that, it brings me down to earth. It's really very simple needs, all of us. You know, all of us have very simple needs and if that's fulfilled we become happy people. So when I walk into my office I'm not bubbling with excitement or anything. I just walk into my office very calmly and when we have meetings everybody's energetic. Everybody contributes to a topic especially when I give them a challenging question. It's a bit counter-intuitive when you mention that you don't... that's not your responsibility to give energy to your team members. Then what is the role of a leader in your thoughts? To be watchful. Well, I watch the business. I watch the people because every other day my factory is just down the road from my office. I walk to the factory. I spend time easily an hour or two among my factory workers and I watchful. What's the interlining? The interlining that's inside your jacket. What interlining are you using? We have people who take charge of that because different fabrics use different interlining and I just hang around the factory and watch and well, I read a book many years ago about management style by walking. Is that the way? If I have to think of a word, it would be watchfulness. Did you ever think you would be a major influencer in the way Malaysians eat and dress? No, never believed that something like this could ever happen. But I did have a dream. I did have a dream one day. Well, I think when Kew Corporation was about two or three years old and that's when I had bought over the company completely because my friend, her husband was transferred back to Epo so she sold her shares to me as well and so about three years into it I owned the company completely by myself and I was in Japan to buy fabrics and I was in the restaurant by myself and I had read this book A Touch of Greatness by Frank Thibault and inside there it taught me to set goals taught me to dream big dreams so then I took out a piece of paper and I wrote and I just wrote about my dreams wrote about owning a label and the selling to all the shops and here I am having this business that carries my own label and I'm selling to many shops I'm selling to Singapore I have franchises so the dream has come to pass and I never believed it could happen but I did write it down and if you ask me where that paper was I don't know where it is because I like to write things down and I don't keep them but somehow it's like when I look at it after finished writing it's nice to look at it and think about it but I never read it again a lot of things that I write and yeah, I never believed never dreamed that it would happen but it did that's why again we come back to God God makes the impossible possible What's next? What's next? So many things so many possibilities of course now the hot item is my cookbook we're going to publish it hopefully we'll launch it in November we're having a collaboration with Jonathan Liang he's a designer living in Paris for Dude and Duchess so that will be launched end of October so in a big picture I don't know in a big picture I know everybody's in place to carry on the business if anything happens to me so but I don't know maybe I'll do a second cookbook With that we wish you the very best of success and the very best of achieving your dreams Helen we thank you again for joining us in the Eclipse Leadership Room Thank you Thank you very much for being with us This is Aliza Crialeas from the Eclipse Leadership and Governance Centre signing off Thank you