 Good mental health, a regular podcast series that helps you make sense of the world around you in order to lead a more optimal life. We do that by examining the teachings of Dr. Neil Maranello. He's a behavior expert and solutions focus life coach in Woodstock, Vermont with near six decades exploring the human condition. He's been tweeting for a number of years now and we examine his tweets in this podcast series. And as always, I'm pleased to be joined by the good Dr. Neil. It's always a pleasure seeing you on the show here. Thank you for joining us. My pleasure also that our topic for today is just such a natural progression from where we began this podcast series. And if you recall to the viewer out there, we began with the 10 rules for life, if you will, sort of a basis for the reality around you. And we've now morphed into a sort of a second chapter, if you will, of the good doctors tweets where we're really examining where perception informs thinking, which determines reality, perception, thinking and reality. That's sort of the second phase here that we've been speaking with. And our topic today is really a natural progression again of where we began the second part of the series, which was what I see is not what's there. There's what's real what's not real and what we perceive to be real. And then today's topic is really again about meaning and the meaning anything has is what you give it and Neil this is really just again another way of saying that how we significant anything determines its impact in our lives isn't that correct. Yes, yes, I think that the, the thing which started me thinking in this direction was a scene from the movie Oh God in which George Burns is playing God, and he's being tested as to whether he really is God or not. The question that is asked is what is the meaning of life and the answer that is given is the meaning of life is exactly and precisely what you think it is no more no less. And I began to do a riff on that and understood that that we give meaning to things based on our own projections based on what comes from within us. And I started thinking in terms of the interactions that I have with people as my reaction to what they say, and their reaction to what I say, which may or may not be in concert. I remember many years ago. We were doing the evaluation of kids coming into kindergarten, and we were using a thing called the Peabody picture vocabulary test, in which it gave an age related score to what a child, how the child answered the questions. One child answered questions at a 10 year old level, and that child was five years old, which by the old method of determining IQ, which was mental age over chronological age times 100 would have given him a 200 IQ, which is quite extraordinary. I was quite embarrassed to hear the reaction of the teacher when I showed it to her. I was excited, obviously, and I showed the results. And she said, Oh, don't worry about it, Neil, we'll have them down to normal in no time. Oh goodness. I realized that that only if she misunderstood what I was saying but but she had interpreted my excitement, as if it was some sort of a major concern about something wrong with the child. There have been several examples of that that I've had since then the people who choose the interaction to significant to give meaning to what I'm saying that isn't exactly what I meant to say, and my possibly doing the same thing with what they're saying. So the, the giving of meaning to something comes from within each of us, and we have to check it out to make sure that we're doing it the right way. Well, and I love that you started the, the answer with that analogy of, you know, the Oh God movie. And, and in a sense that's the natural progression if you will have this question is what is the meaning of life. And, and it really is just that that it, and it isn't anything more than that. And I mean that by saying that the meaning of life is what you give it. And, and that's it. You know we deeper and deeper and deeper but that's not what we're talking about here it's like, it's a very, very simple concept the meaning of life is what you make it. And that has to do with the key to happiness key to being happy actually has a great deal to do with the way you think about things. And the way you think about things is a variable. It's something that can be changed it can be changed by interacting with somebody else can be changed by interacting with parts of yourself can be changed by figuring out how to get your conscious to communicate better. So the truth is that that happiness is directly related to how we significant the experiences we've had the experiences we're having right now, and the ways in which we anticipate future experiences. And, and so this is just beautiful because it's so dovetails with sort of what's been going on for me in that, you know for probably the past week I haven't been feeling great. You know, and, and I'm very aware of the connection between mind and body. And so I have to be very careful not to talk myself into illness. Right, because I know that power and things like that. And so it just again it's like it's what I make of it. It's my interpretation and it has to be for my better health. And, and so other things that have been happening in since we last spoke, I sort of feel have been preparing me for today's discussion in that I've come upon the Kabbalian, which is the hermetic teachings of Hermes, Magistris, you know, which is supposed to be the latest incarnation of both, who is the ancient Egyptian deity, and things like that. And, and it's talking about all and, and, and it was sort of a written encapsulation of what you and I have been spending, you know the last 14 weeks, sharing here. And so it was, it was wonderful to get sort of that external influence as a form of confirmation about what we've been talking about. And it validated some of the things we've been talking about. Absolutely. I'm familiar with, with what you're talking about though, I don't, I'm aware of the Kabbalah. This is different. This is not the Jewish, you know, text and rituals. This is the Kabbalian K-Y-B-L-I-O-N. It was written in 1908. So it's, again, so interesting is that it confirms what we've been talking about here in, you know, 2021, but was written over 100 years ago. And what you've just said, you're not aware of. Yes, yes. I mean, some of what I'm saying comes from William James, who actually wrote in the 19th century about the importance of meaning, and how we give meaning to things, and that that determines our happiness. And some of it has to do with, you know, later works of people who have been psychologists or studied psychology. When it comes to understanding physical stuff, what's going on with, you know, if I'm in pain and one kind or another. There are a couple of ways of doing that. And one of them was developed by a guy named Adler in the early 1900s. And he had a question, which I have used many times. When a person reports some sort of a physical symptom, he would say, let's, he would do something like take out a pen and say, Okay, now, when you want to understand what's going on with you at this point. And let's assume that the pen is somehow a magic wand. And when you, when you want to take the pen, and tell me what your wishes that comes to your mind when you take the pen. And then the client takes the pen. And if the client says, my stomach has been hurting, but I wish my wife would be nicer to me, and it's probably got more of a psychological basis. If the client says, my stomach has been hurting and I wish the pain would go away, and it's probably more of a physical basis. Now the way that I deal with physical problems when I have them is to use a fritz pearls technique, which is actually if I'm feeling pain in my stomach. And I say, Okay, I'm the stomach and what am I trying to tell you. And then, depending on what it says, I try to get inside the experience of the stomach and project from the stomach to my conscious mind and figure out, is there something I can do right now. As we said before, that'll help you feel even a little bit better about it. And it's really interesting because again, through the work that we've been doing in the series and, and of course, you know, prior, I'm pretty in touch with what I think I need or feel that I need. And I know what the answer is doesn't make that it, that it's any easier to incorporate. And that then also could also be part of the source of the problem, you know, is the awareness that I feel that I'm not necessarily powerless but that I'm not taking the power to implement a solution that I know would be beneficial. Yeah, you'll have to be more specific. Well, I'm, you know, so I do have tummy problems right now. And so I know that part of the problem is that I'm overeating, or I'm eating poorly, so that my diet needs to improve but I'm sort of like well how do I do that. And in a sense, it's, you throw up your hands and, and, and I know that I'm not alone in this because I know you yourself, you know, have issues with food and example, but again, my awareness that this is part of my problem. And my awareness that I'm not solving this issue could be, in fact, the gestational start of the discomfort. Does that make sense? The part of it that, and the disclaimer here, as I've said before, is that if I have an area that I'm still working on, and hopefully will resolve before I reach the age of 90, I'm 77 now, it is with regard to food. I would give you some of the ways that I've dealt with it. One of them is that understand that what my stomach is telling me is a desire for resolving problems which may or may not be physical. And most of the time they are more emotional. Right. And that's what I do here. Whenever I feel like, gee, I really want something to eat right now. And it's especially something with sugar in it. I assume that I'm experiencing some form of anxiety, that there's something I'm scared of thinking. And what I'll often do is say, Okay, I'm going to answer the question what am I scared to think right now before I put something in my mouth. And what I've come up with, I guess, is the major way in which I resolve my weight issues and I'm quite sure that if I didn't ask myself this question I would weigh 400 pounds. It's wait five minutes and consider everything that I swallow. Think about it first and see if in fact it feels right to eat that whereas there's something else I can do that might meet the need that the desire to swallow something is coming from. And again, I just love that we're able to have this discussion because it vicariously allows me to process some of my own issues as well as trying to help the viewer out there. And so I know that, you know, as we talked about, you know, my tummy and and it's a diet issue. What it really is is a loneliness issue, and probably a fear of loneliness because I experienced loneliness a lot, given that I'm single and I don't have a wide circle of friends to whom I can interact with on a daily basis on a regular basis so I know that what I need is an stimulation, but because I don't have a significant companion such as you have with your wife and that that that touch is missing from my life and I think we certainly know that you know the health benefits of physical touch are profound. And so I know that the answer for me is I need to find a massage therapist again, and I'm not doing that, even though I know that intellectually, that would be a solution, and yet for some reason, I'm not taking that to the next level to act on it. What I can say is, prior to today's, you know, meeting, you know, half an hour an hour beforehand, you know as I get present to what our topic is and how it's impacting me. I went and looked online for a local massage therapist. I didn't find one that I want to work with but I certainly found a list. Yeah, that's a that's a start. Yeah, there are several benefits to it once you get into that you get in touch with the fact that you need touch. Then the issue was what you started starting with what you did, but just find a list. Don't be afraid to try out various ones. But the most important thing is scheduling an appointment, knowing that you're doing something about it. And then you have the additional factor of anticipation when you feel lonely, and that of course is distinct from feeling alone, because feeling alone does not have associated with it. The sadness and emptiness that you're connecting by by significating it as lonely. The reality is that you can say to yourself okay well I'm doing something about this I've got an appointment with so and so on such and such a date. And I know what it is I want and I'm going to be as clear as I can be about that. And that person will either meet my needs or not. And if not, I go to number two on the list. Right. Yeah. And, and, and I love this, how it does dovetail into the topic here in that, you know what. And how do I significant that, you know, and, and I'm obviously significant that that is a real important part of my mental health, and like physical health and, and for somebody else. It doesn't matter anything to them at all, particularly in those two areas. So again it comes back to an individual power and responsibility. And I think, you know, many of us certainly know deep down inside but I can say you know, just in what we've been speaking about, how I don't consciously act on it. And yet, my subconscious probably knows and will manifest it in ways that is going to force me to actually have to address it, which is in this case, as a symptom of unwell of being a feeling unwell. My subconscious is trying to. The subconscious is clearly telling you that you need this. Yeah, and various ways of getting it at any given point in time. I probably spend more time alone than I do doing anything else. And I am very fortunate that I have a partner who enjoys puzzling with me when we go to bed. I also have a dog that likes to sit in my lap. And I sometimes refer to the dog as my blanket. But when I'm sitting alone and I'm feeling a little scared or a little lonely or something of that sort, I will cocoon myself. I'll sit in my most comfortable chair and I'll get a blanket and wrap it around myself, put something from my head to rest on and do everything I can to make myself as comfortable and feel as safe as possible. Sometimes you have somebody sometimes you don't. The, the name of the game is what can I do right now that'll help me feel better and it may just be schedule an appointment with somebody. Yeah, the beauty of massage therapy is that it's basically contract as, as any form of therapy that is good is. I'm basically saying I will spend X amount of time with somebody whose job it is to help me feel a little better. Nice. And I think that's actually why I love our interaction in a sense I get that opportunity to experience myself in a much more positive way, whether it's through this podcast series or our previous interactions in a, you know, Dr. We're going to be talking about the client relationship. Our topic again is the meaning of anything is what you give it the meaning of life is what you give it. And it's so interesting. I've seen this question been popping up and in a lot of my feed on social media, which again is sort of an external validation that you know what we're talking about is also out there in the zeitgeist. And my meaning for life is completely different than anyone else's because of how I significant and I was really triggered by what you just said that like if you're feeling unsafe you'll kind of try to, you know, put a nice blanket around any way to try to cocoon, if you will, as a way to try to make yourself safe and I that maybe just think of how I look at the world in a sense, in that same way that some people may look at, you know, life as oh a series of an unfortunate disparate unrelated that you just have to react to and you know buckle down and knuckle under to and and that to me is a very frightening way of looking at the world around me and and I choose to actually use your viewpoint a little bit more and and to look at it much more softly and welcoming and warming and and safe. You know, because again it goes back to what we're talking in our initial 10 my eyes are creating this reality around me. And, and for me, I needed to be as rewarding and welcoming and safe and as positive as as as possible for my well being and and and to be able to go out into it. And that's the series of events, which may or may not be random, but the meaning that you give to those events gives you an opportunity to learn from them. And when you learn from those events in a way that allows you to grow, rather than shrivel your giving meaning to your life in a way which, which works for you. So all that really matters is finding a way that you the only caution there is making sure that the way that works for you does not hurt other people. Because if you're looking for ways to work for you, you're basically looking at something that's going to help you. And if you can do that without it's being at the expense of others, or even better, as my life is about helping others. And one of the things that the best validation the therapist can get is a statement from the client. You've made me a better person. And of course I don't make anybody anything, but I give data, which hopefully an experiences which hopefully help my clients to feel like they're better than they were before the talking to me. And if the stories I tell help with that, then I'm doing my job right. If they don't help so much. I'm seeing I'll be happy to see anybody for nothing and talk to them about it. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and this sort of, you know, really rides into, you know, my recent past here and my brush with death at the, you know, hand of a at my own hand and the barrel of a 38 revolver. And how do I significant that going forward in a way to try to be empowering and and still live in a world that is safe for me and I think what we've been doing, you know, since then the work you and I've been doing and this podcast series as an as an example is is just an example of it. You know, that leading up to that event. This was missing. And it came to a head on that night and since then, you know, been working really hard to, again, reframe my reality in a way that is loving and positive and supportive of me and everyone that you know, my eyes have created and my, my amygdala interprets. Yeah, I think that the, when someone goes through, and I consider it an honor to be able to talk to you after you reached that extreme point. It's not something that the therapist gets many chances to do because most people who point to 38 at their heart and pull the trigger do not survive it. The key to getting beyond that is understanding what were the circumstances that led you to that point where you saw no other option. And the, from my point of view, the most important thing is what was going on in your head, what was going on in your father's head, what led you to believe that that was the only possible option. You said, you talked about it in some of these podcasts. At the same time, I think that the key to understanding it is to not just find a way to positively connot it, but also to truly understand how bad it was because you won't get back to that point. If you've been there and realize that the place that you reached was one corner of one floor of a big building that was inside you. And it's so interesting as we talk about, you know, that so many have gone to the dark night of the soul, not to return and yet I have and I'm really fortunate because I don't know if it was you. But somebody reframed this whole incident in a way that was so empowering for me that really gave me my life meaning and it ties directly in to our conversation here and that was that they said that it was just that you went to the dark night of the soul. Many have not returned, and the hero story continues. And it was that last line that each of us are living the heroes life. Yes, every day. And that is, I don't think they were ever told you that those are not my words. On the other hand, I agree with them. And so I want to, you know, give an add a person to that individual, the describe to ourselves, we each have an announcer in our head describing to ourselves what's going on. There's something that you were yourself said there was something you were saying to yourself just before you pulled the trigger. And it was something like the world to be better off without me. Now that was a projected distortion, which I put you into an anti hero, not a hero. Suddenly said, you know, I am. There's an assumption that you are evil coming from that. And my experience is that evil. Nobody really thinks of themselves as evil. Everybody has a rationalization everybody has something they say to themselves to prove that they're not evil, even Hitler, you know has something he was saying to himself to believe that what he was doing was good, not bad. Once a person understands that they're saying to themselves comes clear that there's something else they could say to themselves that would turn them into someone who's doing good instead of that. But nobody goes at it saying, Oh, I'm evil, I'm going to do evil stuff, because it makes me feel better to do even stuff. There are TV shows that create that narrative. And I just laugh when I see them and turn it off because I see that the screenplay writer didn't really understand how the mind works. The way the mind really works is that when the conscious and subconscious are in concert. There is an understanding of the fact that there's no part of you that is evil. There are only parts of you that can push you in the direction of doing something that's evil. I love because shame is so wrapped up in this and I know that this is going to be the basis for our third part of this discussion again we're in the second part of the discussion right now, which again is about thoughts, framing perspective that informs reality and impacts reality but we'll get into shame, because that's definitely intertwined with this and what you just said as well. Our topic for today's discussion is the meaning anything has is what you give it and by fiat, the meaning of life is what you give it nothing more. It's that simple concept now you can go back in and say oh well maybe it's this or that, or anything. It's way too deep. It's just this very simple statement, the meaning of life is what you give it done. And you can change the meaning of life and you can change the meaning of your life and you can change your happiness, your understanding of good and evil you can change all of that. Just by looking at the process of your thinking and being open to the possibility that it isn't written in stone. Neil your final thoughts on our topic. Again, the meaning of life is what you give it the meaning of anything is what you give it it just continues on our overall topic throughout the series of your life is how you significant. Yeah, I think that the key to any effectiveness that I have is that I'm not afraid of getting in depth. I'm not afraid of going as deep as you need to go to get to the actual inner dialogue that's going on between the parts of yourself, doing the parts of myself, and understanding what a person is saying to themselves is the key to that, bringing the conscious and subconscious together with each of them understanding their function is the key to it. For example, I had a 12 year old boy referred to me many years ago, who had was constantly running away from home. His parents clearly created a good home for him, but he would run away from home nobody would know where he went, and he would come back and be brought to the therapist and the therapist would ask him questions and he wouldn't say where he'd gone or anything like that but he would always come back by himself and it was always a little happier when he came back. And I got to talking to him and I spent half a dozen sessions with him and the whole goal of that was to get him to trust me. And when he did trust me what I found out was that he was running away from home and going to visit his grandfather, his grandfather had in fact been alienated from the rest of the family. And he would go to be to be with his grandfather his grandfather when he would have fun together and tell stories, but the one message was don't tell anybody that you came here. So, once the issue came out that that the grandfather was involved it became very easy to resolve the problem, meet with the parents to get the grand grandfather in. But until I figured out what was really going on in his head what was he saying to himself how was he positively connoting something that was freaking out his family bringing the police into looking for him and all kinds of other stuff. You had to get past the external appearance of things and inside the kids mind in order to understand what's really going on. Getting in depth is, to me, always the key to understanding how people significant things and what meeting they're giving to their lives. Wonderful. And even speaking with Dr. Neil Maranello behavior expert solutions focused life coach out of Woodstock Vermont near six decades exploring the human condition. You can follow the good doctor on Twitter at coach Dr. Neil and we invite you to join us next time here on Good Mental Health, where our topic will be a continuation of today's. No two people think alike. On behalf of the good doctor I met Kelly wishing you good mental health.