 Felly, wrth gwrs, wrth gwrs, am ychwanegi nhw i zeithio'r gweithio i mi, byddwn yn fawr i'n gweithio iawn o'r LF Conference Network. Felly, ydych chi'n gallu bod yn gweithio, felly mae'n gweithio. Felly, rwy'n James MacLeod, y Ffinos y Comunitech yw'r gweithio. Felly, rwy'n gweithio'n gweithio i mi yna, rwy'n gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio ar gyfer y Ffinos. Rwy'n gweithio ar y gweithio ar gyfer y gweithio, see such a great turnout here in the room. Today I'm going to be taking you through the story of Finn Mas, but we're going to do it in the style of Clint Eastwood. We're going to discover the good, the bad, and the ugly of what's happening in the state of financial services. And so I'm going to start at the beginning of my journey within financial services. So I actually worked for the Linnux Foundation being the director of community for Finn Mas, but actually before I joined for Finn Mas, mae'r ystod ar gyfer y rhesymau yng Nghaerhau Ffyrdd yn y U. Mae'r ystyff yn ei ddigital yma a'r ffordd o'r aflwmau. A rydym yn y ffordd o'r ystod ar gyfer y gweithio eto, ymgyrch yn ymgyrch yn y cyfrannu ei ddifus. Ond mae'r cyfrannu ei ddifus yn ymgyrch yn ei ddifus, mae'r ystod yn ymgyrch yn y cyfrannu ei ddifus ymgyrch yn eu ddifus eu ddifus, ymgyrch yn y cyfrannu ei ddifus eu ddifus, Felly, felly i chi ddim yn ymddangos, ydych chi'n 5 yma, y cychwyn cyffredig iawn ymdyn nhw'n ddod ymdyn nhw fydd o'r adysur yn ymdyn nhw ymddangos, a'r cyffredig iawn yn ymdyn nhw'n ddod yn yr mindfulness. Felly, mae'n gweithio y ffyrdd yn fwyaf. Felly, mae'n gweithio y ffyrdd yn fwyaf o'r cyfans, mae'n gweithio yw ddod yn ei ffyrdd yn ei ffyrdd yn fwyaf, siwn dod eu cymaint o'r cygafodd. A byddwn ni'n meddwl am cael y cyfaint, a byddwn ni'n meddwl y� y dystyried o'r cyfrun. So bias y gwrdd, gyda'r iawn o'r llun o'r dynys i ddoch yn opent a phobl yn neud mewn gwirionedd. Ond byddwn ni'n ni'n meddwl i'r iran. Dyna'r hyn yn hyn beth yw wedi bob yn ein fitnig.. Felly tyd, mae'n meddwl ar y garfod yma, rydyn ni'n meddwl ei ddweud i mi. Fynnodd, rydyn ni'n meddwl. I've had a nod, so we can indeed. But if you fast forward, so just five years, if you fast forward from where I was in a retail bank in London, persuading people to get on to GitHub and start looking at coding repos to where we are today, things have wildly accelerated. You've got financial services companies that are actually looking at open source as a place to place all of their different standards, all of their codes and to be custodians of those because they're observable, people can actually engage with them. And as you can see on this slide, open source isn't being communicated to the financial services industry as a risk. You know, it's kind of been described to the financial services industry as the direction of travel and the place where banks should actually head to. And this brings me to where I am now and where Finals is now within the Linux Foundation. As you can see from this side, there are lots of logos here. But if you look really close, you'll notice that a lot of the logos are actually from banks. You know, at one point, you know, you would find that tech vendors and consultancies would actually, you know, outstrip the amount of banks that would be on here. But you'll notice that, you know, we have Bank of Montreal, Citi, Golden Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, UBS, RBC and Wellington, all on our platinum board, all helping us take directions within the foundation and provide steering to the rest of the industry. And that is played out all the way through our gold membership and through our silver membership as well. We have banks who are working with technology companies and vendors. And we also have consultancies who are working in the open with banks in order to accelerate the industry. We also have associate members as well. So we invite foundations and regulators and other membership organisations like ourselves to join the foundation and work with us in order to really steer the industry in the direction in which it's heading. And so we actually describe ourselves as a very diverse membership foundation of lots of different people with lots of different points of view from banks all the way through to regulators as well. Now financial services is actually being accelerated through this as well. So the financial industry is at the beginning of its decade long transformation by the world's best developers. If you are actually part of the engineering industry, you'll know that there aren't enough engineers in the world in order to get to where we need to be. And if you've got multiple financial services institutions all solving the same problems, you're not going to be able to accelerate the pace of change. We need to start bringing in all of those engineers together so we can start removing all of the duplication of that effort. Start collaborating and thinking as one group of collaborators within an open environment. And this is where we are now. This is what the foundation actually brings to the table. Now, what this actually means is that if you look at the way that banks have operated, well, they are operating like this now, but there's also innovation in this space. We are actually transforming from banks that have been deeply siloed, that have been surrounded by mainframes and very difficult routes to life onto those mainframes. To banks that are actually creating services and microservices that can be developed and worked upon by squads of engineers and feature teams. They're committed into repositories as individual pieces of functionality using languages like JavaScript and Go and things that are very lean. All the way through to using and reusing and collaborating back into open source, you know, through all of the various different libraries that are being used out there. The interesting thing is, is that this isn't actually a waterfall diagram because the mainframe is still needing to be leveraged by banks and banks still need to, you know, accelerate their development on the mainframe. I remember being an engineering lead in a bank thinking there's no way that I would ever want to develop in COBOL. You know, the COBOL environment for development was still, up until quite recently, green screens, but now open source is actually helping the mainframe to transform. There are providers of Kubernetes services on the mainframe that are allowing applications to be written anywhere, you know, using open source technologies. And so as you go through this cycle of mainframe and into services and using open source, that's being provided through the entire roots alive of the banking industry. Not only that, but it's not just about code. It's not just about units of code and how you actually collaborate and contribute those units. There's also lots of different standards that are being driven through the banking industry. There are lots of different owners of those standards, such as the EDM Council and CDMC can come together in order to increase the reliability of those standards, increase how they are being observed and how they're being contributed into. You've got open connectivity, such as over in, you know, the UK and the EU, you have like open banking and many different ways of engaging on decentralized data, giving data back to the owners of that data. Which then allows banks to tap into a global network of thinking and increase access to engineering, but also reduce cost, which is a massive digital transformation initiative, removing the cost or bringing the cost down on everything we do whilst also accelerating and also creating efficiency. That is the actual mantra of open source, and that is what we're pushing within Finos, and that is what Finos is actually being leveraged. Now, I'm actually painting a really great picture of where we are today, but just six years ago, when we were starting out, you'll notice that we were a room full of engineers coming from a very typical banking background. You'll notice that, you know, the community wasn't as diverse as it is today, you know, we recognize that we need to invite, you know, more engineers from different backgrounds and, you know, different points of view. And we have changed that. We have actually brought a whole range of different people, you know, from the stereotypical type of banking industry into one that's inviting creativity, different points of view, different types of development languages. And we listen to, you know, all of the points of view of those people and really bring them into Finos through the culture of open source and open source engineering. So whilst we're accelerating innovation within, so what we're actually setting out to do is accelerating innovation in the horizontal of banking by bringing in all of the different types of players together that serve the financial services industry. So we're not just a foundation that is inviting big, big banks to the table to be able to do that. We do have the financial institutions, you know, who are the big players globally within the foundation, but we also want, you know, the agile and lean FinTech vendors, you know, to come to the table as well to help accelerate with, you know, the very specific and the very, you know, subject matter expertise in, you know, specific functionality within the financial services industry with big tech as well. You know, so the cloud service providers coming to the table and actually helping us with the standards that are needed in order to keep data safe all the way through to the buy side banks and the sell side banks and the regulators as well. Now by bringing all of these parties together surrounded by standardisation, open governance and also mutualisation, which is actually a very important topic within all of the banking industry. How can we bring all of that thinking together? How can we bring the thinking that is being replicated across, you know, all of the multiple banks and bring it into the foundation? All of these different, you know, types and styles of, you know, standardisation, interoperability between banks, you know, between desktop, you know, provision of service all the way through to, you know, mainframe and all the way through all of the various different tiers. We can accelerate engineering and also accelerate the way that banks interoperate between each other, both on the desktop and also at the API layer between banks themselves. And by doing that, one of the key methods within Finos that we use to bring all of these different people together, you know, that service the financial services industry is through the open sourcing finance forum, which is the conference that Finos runs twice a year, which has actually got a massive growing popularity, both in New York and also in London. So recently in London, at the beginning of this summer, we ran our open sourcing finance forum. And we saw the greatest number of people and participants come into that forum, as we have seen since the start of the open sourcing finance forum, and that was post pandemic as well. And I'm pleased to actually tell everybody here that we're, we've got our next open sourcing finance forum that's happening in New York this year on the 8th of December. And we're inviting people from within the Finos membership who get tickets allocated to them as part of their membership and also people outside of the Finos membership who can actually, you know, register for tickets and buy them online through the Linux Linux Foundation to come and join us in New York on the 8th of December. Now, as everybody is sharing QR codes, I actually encourage everybody to get their phones out and start taking photos of the QR code on the bottom right hand side. And that will take you to the registration page for the open sourcing finance forum. And if you want to, we are still accepting, I believe, calls for papers or if you have missed the deadline, you know, there are ways that you can reach out to myself over LinkedIn and the rest of the team in order to submit a financial services open source, you know, story or talk. It's a fantastic forum of people coming from across the financial services industry all the way through our membership and also through lots of different technology players as well. And so it's not just banks, it's engineers from banking all of the way through to cloud service providers and everybody who services, you know, the financial services industry. And it's a really great place to meet, you know, the engineers on the ground and have those engineering to engineering conversations to. Now, Finos has been through an evolution. We didn't start yesterday. We've actually been part of the open source community now for a great number of years. We were started, so our origin started in Wall Street around a communication platform for financial services called Symphony, which, you know, if you're going to compare it to any other communication platform that you know, I would say it's the slack of financial services. Where you can talk between banks, but talk between banks knowing that you are part of a regulated industry. And so it brings safety to that type of communication. Finos was actually the Symphony software foundation then we actually helped, you know, extend the functionality of the platform of Symphony for Wall Street banks. But then there was like a great idea, you know, open source was opening up. We could see Ospo's kind of being created on the horizon. And so the Finos members, platinum members, the governors of Finos decided to take the decision to actually create a horizontal foundation across financial services and not just focus on one platform. And that was the birth of Finos. That's how, you know, our origin started. Now, when we come back, come together as, you know, a board or, you know, we reflect on our history. Seeing where we are now, you know, servicing the entire financial services industry across, you know, mostly Wall Street in the city of London, but with LF Europe on the horizon, pushing into Europe. It's amazing at how Finos as a foundation within the Linux foundation and the conversations around open source are just accelerating. But it's always good to reflect on where you need it to be in order to be in order to really demonstrate where you are now. So this brings me to the subject of the talk. So the good, the bad and the ugly. So let's take a look at the good, you know, let's take a look at where we are now within open source in finance. So, as you can see, we annually do the state of open source in finance survey, which I'll be posting a link for everybody here to take. And I'm really pleased to say when we actually go out to the wider open source participants in industry, innovation, you know, so moving faster, getting things done, you know, in a very kind of creative technology way is a key motivator for part of participation in open source in finance. That's also showing that financial services isn't about, you know, boring monoliths anymore. You know, people want to actually get out there and demonstrate great solutions through innovation and pass innovation through to their engineering teams. Seventy two percent of financial services into institutions are looking for open source solutions. I remember there being a massive firewall in between me and open source and breaking through that was going out, you know, through the back door and going down to the local meet up at the end of the day. Now people are kind of, you know, looking at open source solutions as a way of solving problems, you know, and the infrastructure teams that once blocked those solutions coming in and working with engineering teams to bring them in and actually use them. And that is absolutely amazing to see the great. So 69% of respondents have communicated that open source solutions improve the work productivity of their teams, you know, so the duplication of effort and the increased efficiency of teams is actually increasing and it's being recognised by Scrum Masters product owners and the people who are actually measuring this in banks. It's so good to have that marker coming back to open source is the solution that is providing that in that efficiency to where there was inefficiency once before. Seventy two percent of respondents said they're committed to looking for open source solutions and keep on looking for them. And so there are people out there, you know, looking in Finos, looking at what we're doing, consuming those, et cetera, and actually putting them to good use and also beyond Finos T. This is also a great marker. So this year when a to do group gave their Ospo of the Year, they gave it to a bank and that bank is actually a Finos member. So Goldman Sachs won Ospo of the Year from the to do group, which was actually amazing considering all of the tech vendors, you know, and all of the other technology players who don't have the regulatory boundaries that banks have to, you know, kind of understand. And, you know, drive through in order to get into open source. Now, the very last panel is actually where people are moving to banks from technology companies and vendors to be part of the open source movement. People are deciding to go from that, you know, what was perceived as an innovative industry into one that used to be perceived as one that was quite slow. We're now finding that there is a migration from, you know, the faster tech vendors into banks because the movement is so strong. And the reason why they're doing this is so that they can actually collaborate on all of the various different solutions that we have in Finos, plus all of the solutions that are coming into Finos. So we have a great landscape of different types of projects all the way from data visualisation on the front end of browsers using JavaScript, TypeScript, WebAssembly. You know, who would have thought that a bank, you know, would be pioneering and pushing forward WebAssembly. We have projects that can help map out the internal infrastructure and the solutions architecture of your bank. All of your licensing dependencies, et cetera. We can get a real good taxonomy of what's happening in banks. Now, both of those projects, Perspective and Waltz, one was contributed into Finos by JP Morgan and Waltz was contributed by Deutsche Bank. And if you go through this cycle, data modelling through legend was contributed by Goldman Sachs. Morfer, which is a way of describing regulation as code, was contributed by JP Morgan. Then you have interoperability standards like FDC3 and also complied financial infrastructure where we have a maintainer of the project in the room here giving me solid advice and go get them, James. And you can find all of these projects on the Finos landscape by going to landscape.finos.org where you can get an overview of all of these projects. And it gives you kind of like a link back to the GitHub repository where they're all held. And also a description of, you know, what the purpose of those projects are and how you can actually leverage them. So it's an absolutely positive sum game. You know, we're bringing people together from across the entire horizontal industry of financial services from financial institutions. Those FinTech vendors are starting to really kind of come forward. We had Clear Bank, who are a bank, a payments provider within the UK. Give a firesite chat with myself at the last open source in finance forum just this summer. Those big tech vendors are starting to join. So we have Google who are part of the foundation and Intel and, you know, we have Red Hat and other vendors who bring, you know, all of the big tech solutions to the party. We have BISIDE and we also have the regulators who are starting to step forward through our regulation innovation special interest group, you know, turning regulation and policy into code and also getting horizon compliance landscape projects in et cetera. Now this is being the director of community for Finos. This is actually really exciting because, you know, we like to, you know, measure the success of the foundation. And as you can see, when we look at who are contributing into the foundation, despite, you know, all of the various different regulations and CCLAs that need to be signed by banks. The top contributors into Finos are actually from banks. We have all of these technology vendors and consultancies, you know, who don't have as many hoops to jump through as part of the foundation. But still Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Morgan Stanley are the top contributors. They're the people who are putting code into GitHub through the foundation into their projects and then into the open source landscape. We are finding year on year that our contribution is actually growing. So if you look at the metrics, so metrics.finos.org, where all of our various metrics are actually held where we measure the success of the foundation, you'll find year on year our contributor strength is growing by 30%. And so we've got a nice steady up curve there. We've got 1500 plus contributors over time and one project contributed into Finos each month from a financial services vendor. That is absolutely amazing that banks are actually finding ways of taking sometimes projects that are on the inside of banks and recognizing that these have horizontal value to everybody in order to really kind of push that efficiency button and duplication of effort. Those projects are coming out of those banks and they're appearing in Finos. And actually, you know, it's the reputation of Finos that Finos has become in the name that people are recognizing and say it just makes sense for all of these contributions to come into the foundation and the Linux foundation. Now that those last measures were kind of upstream measures people contributing into repositories, you know, people joining the foundation. These next ones are adoption. These are how banks are actually adopting projects from Finos through open source and bring them down, you know, through registers and, you know, different methodologies of getting code out of, you know, open source and being leveraged. And so you can see the perspective which is the JavaScript project that I was describing before has had 2500 npm downloads in three years. Well, an increase of 2500% of downloads through npm. So you're coming straight down through the npm registry as JavaScript and into browsers and being leveraged, you know, across the open source industry, because all of these projects are open to anyone to use, but mostly into banks. And FDC3, which is an interoperability desktop standard that we use, that we maintain, has had an increase of over 400 and 85% using npm downloads as well. So we are pushing in both directions. We're attracting more people into the foundation and our projects are also being leveraged by more teams and more banks across the Finos landscape. Now, open source, you know, everywhere is about the people that it attracts, you know, to lead and also be on the ground doing the work. Finos is actually attracting some really great people from across the industry to help with the governance and steering. So you'll notice that we've got some great people from within financial services such as Kim Prado from BMO, who is actually the vice chair or actually the chair of Finos now. She has been an absolute advocate and supporter of the foundation and helps kick off our conferences and gives steer to the entire foundation as a massive advocate of open source throughout the industry. We also have open source program office leads like Nureen from Capital One, who is on the board, and also Madeleine, who has joined from Wellington, one of our newest platinum board boards. Members joining the board. Plus, we've also now got our technical steering committee, which is actually needed to Finos now. We want to make sure that Finos isn't seen as like a centralized decision maker on what happens, you know, as Finos directors and leads within the foundation. We want to delegate that across our membership and we're, you know, really proud to have Colin Eberhart as the chair of the technical steering committee. He helps guide our path on the projects and, you know, technical decisions that we make, you know, with all of our members and all of our contributors. Now, now that we are part of the Linux Foundation, we are now related to a lot of other great foundations as well. And so we've got a lot of financial services engagement across, you know, the Linux Foundation, such as the Hyperledger Foundation and CNCF. We've also got a massive drive to make sure that our repositories and projects are being looked after, you know, in the right way as you would expect through the OpenSSF. You know, we're educating our maintainers and providing them with training and courses, you know, to make sure that they are managing their projects. You know, in the agile and DevOps and automation way as OpenSSF for actually, you know, instructing the industry, which is fantastic. So we are part of the Linux Foundation. And so we are being supported and also support, you know, other foundations as well. You'll also notice if you look on the OpenSSF website that we have commonalities too. So Morgan Stanley City and JP Morgan are all sitting on the board of OpenSSF and they all sit on the board of Finos as well. And so financial services industries are leveraging open source through Finos and also given the also keeping the open source industry safe, you know, through being part of OpenSSF as well. And so that is actually a great benchmark when the banks are actually keeping, you know, people safe through security mechanisms, etc. Now Finos, as a foundation, we attract a lot of contributions from our members and the people who know us. But we're also being recognized by other entities within financial services, you know, people who haven't necessarily been part of the Finos membership. And we have recently announced that the CDM has been chosen by ISDA, ICMA and ISLA as the custodians of the CDM. And so we are having the CDM, so the common domain model being contributed into Finos is being socialized at the moment and going through our technical steering committee. But this is a massive thing for us. We had to actually pitch the foundation against multiple other people who put themselves forward to be custodians of the CDM. And because of our reputation and because of our board members and the support that we have from industry, we were chosen as the place where the CDM should actually reside. And so that was a massive announcement for us. And it's something that we're extremely proud to let people know. Now, there are some bad things as well. I mean, there's loads of good news that I'm kind of conveying here. But there are also other things that we also need to recognize as well. Clearly, open source isn't done. The financial services industry isn't done with transformation. But there are policies that need to be created and encouraged in order for banks to be able to contribute into upstream. We're still finding that there are heavy restrictions on some banks that stop engineers and other people who want to engage in open source from being able to do that. We haven't opened up everywhere yet. And also, only 35% of the firms who have responded to our open source surveys are aware of anospe within their organization. There are lots of people out there who aren't aware that an open source programme office actually exists. Plus also, a lot of banks, the majority of banks, don't have access to simple things like Google Docs. It's a massive problem. It's something that everybody else has solved. But in a bank, you open Google Docs, your firewall is not going to let you through. Now, as I said earlier, we'd like to collect information from everybody who's engaged in open source, especially in finance. So, if you would like to participate in the state of open source in financial services survey for us, so we can collect more data that I've just presented to you. It would be amazing if you could scan the QR code there and just go through the questions that are asked. You might think that it's not relevant to you, but just please take a look and be guided by the questions. Because the more information that we have in order to guide people through, the more knowledge we have at our disposal about how we can actually accelerate into open source and the types of problems that we also need to solve. But despite all the hype, despite the fact that we have great momentum and despite the fact that a lot more banks and financial services companies are joining, fintechs are still a little late to the party. So, we understand that fintechs like to describe financial services engineering in a different way. The banks are going through their digital transformation initiatives and they describe digital transformation. The fintechs are more lean and they're doing things faster and they don't want to perceive being part of a foundation as something that will slow them down because it's tighter banking. So, we are working in order for those fintechs to get involved and start contributing into open core projects and do more contribution. We're bringing those fintechs to the table to actually demonstrate and have conversations with them that we are working fast, we are lean, we do understand. We are producing standards and interoperability solutions that allow fintech companies to be able to swap information and be able to engineer with some of the greatest engineers in the industry who actually happen to work in some of the bigger banks. And we are doing that through our open source conferences, our meet-ups, bringing people to the table, showing people our code in repose. The fintechs are late to the party but they are joining the party. As you can see there is open BB, there's move, there's open bank project, there's MIFOS who are starting to really engage in open source. In fact, Gabrielle Colombrou, the executive director of FINOS sits on the advisory board for open BB. And so, all of these different parties, although they are a little bit late, they're not entirely late. If we can convince the fintechs to join, this is the map of fintech in Singapore across 2022. There are some great solutions out there to be communicating with and to have engaged in open source. Fintech is where engineers are and that's where the foundation needs to be. And so, if we can attract fintechs into FINOS to work with the bigger banks, there will be loads of engineering solutions to be shared and there will be some great minds and some great thinking to be leveraged as well, which also adds to the positive sum game. So, this is where we actually get into the ugly of everything because there is still vendor lock-in. So, there is a great open source world to be leveraged, but still there is still data lock-in, there is still identity lock-in. There's end user application and regulated nature lock-in, so those worlds still exist. Open source opens that up, but we need to open it up further and start removing all of that lock-in and really start leveraging open source for what it is to be in control of your engineering solutions rather than being tied into things that are very difficult to escape. People are saying that they're doing open source, but they're not really doing open source. And so, what we call open washing still exists. There are people who are saying that they are involved in open source activities, but when you look under the surface, they're not really. So, we need to educate on what open source actually is to people and get them contributing as open source contributors and get them leveraging open source in the way they should be leveraged. We also need to make sure that we are expanding the industry in the right way, providing engineering solutions to problems rather than just removing regulation. We can actually provide different engineering solutions to things within open source that allow the industry to move forward. So, deregulation versus re-regulation, et cetera, we need to really get into that. And we also need to make sure that removing silos that banks operate in doesn't lead to some form of spaghetti Western out in the open source land. We need to be able to leverage open source solutions in the way that they should be leveraged and not create a wilderness that's very difficult to navigate. So, where do we go from here? So, firstly, we need to invite global constituents to the table. We need everybody to start participating in open source across the financial services industry. We need FinTech engagement to be able to get into those real niche minds of solutions that can bring great benefits into financial services industry. And then we also need to start collaborating because that's where all of those engineering velocity efficiencies, cost saving reductions, et cetera, really live. And so, why should you care? So, from a founder point of view, open source brings all of those digital transformation solutions to you. From a developer point of view, you get to work with some of the greatest minds in the open source and also banking industries. There's some great people out there. So, if you're a CTO or an executive director of a bank, look at the digital transformation positives of open source. If you are a developer, get to know everybody who works there and really join the discussion around engineering solutions and really fire up your career through open source. And then together, we can actually turn this kind of collaboration through open source into a banking landscape where we have lots of different tiers of banking working together and we can create an open platform of financial services through all of the various different tiers of banking. And at Finos, we want to actually help you and your teams and your banks do this by growing community, by providing infrastructure, by having a no pay to play and being your open source foundation for the financial services industry. And if you can't engage in that directly, come to Finos and have an opinion. Just state what it is that you're either enjoying or the things that you actually find difficult and actually get involved. Be part of an open source industry. And with that, I'd like to say thank you for being here today. Please engage with us through Open Source and Finance Forum. Take our survey and actually contribute to open source through data and through the state of open source. And join the foundation as a contributor. So you can find us on our website and you can start contributing from this afternoon if you like. All of these QR codes will take you to the various different places that you need to be. Thank you very much for being here. I'm James McHall and you've been wonderful. Thank you. Right. I don't know if we've got time for any questions. I think we're at the end now. Yes. That's perspective by JP Morgan. So that is the visual front end. So it's like real-time data visual representation. It's in the Finos organisation on GitHub. Just look for perspective and you'll see it in there. They're a great team. They're very responsive to questions through GitHub issues. A couple of times you talked about things like going open sources away for them to avoid their resource constraints and finding developers now not reinventing the wheel. And it seems like that's a sort of return on investment approach to advocacy for contributing. I mean, is that the approach you have to take to get these people to listen to you? That's... So as a director of community, I would actually say that I work mostly within engineering teams. I work with the engineers on the ground who... They have two personas. I'm a banking engineer persona. I go and work in a bank every day. And then after work I go to a JavaScript meetup and I contribute to open source projects. And so I really listen to all of the benefits that they bring forward to me and to other engineers about... It would be really great if we could get involved in this project over here through open source because not only will it take us up the ladder of the technology that we're using within the bank, but I'll be able to expand my network and I'll be able to go to conferences and do different talks. And then we match that bottoms up. This is what your engineers really want to do. This is what they're telling us and this is what they should be telling you to the CTOs who are looking at Excel spreadsheets of how can we actually remove duplication of effort and bring costs down. And then we try and move it into light the middle. But I have to admit I've never had a cynical kind of how can we reduce costs through this. People do like to know that, but a lot of the banks that I'm working do actually come in from the culture side now. It's like a great awareness that a lot of people are coming through university with these skills already, whether it's cloud first or whether it's open source first, and they know that they need to change. So I think a lot of the change is actually being pushed through the change of engineering culture. And if you don't adapt to that, then you're going to start running out of engineers as people start retiring. And that's the honest truth. And so that wave of change is through cost efficiencies of cloud as well. So it's a happy balance. But I would say that they are actually really aware of the cultural change that needs to happen. But they're still big oil tankers and it takes a little bit of time for them to move. But it's there, it is there. Right, I don't know if we need to vacate this room for the next speaker. Yeah, thank you everybody. Have safe journeys home and enjoy the rest of the day.