 Yes, yes We're on the air now We are waiting for the signal We are on the air now There it is And I'm gonna talk to the YouTube crowd better late than never All right starting in three two This is Twists this week in science episode number 650 recorded on Wednesday December 20th 2017 Science is old Hey everyone, I'm dr. Kiki and tonight on this week in science We are going to fill your heads with old life savage justice and poo but first Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer as we near the end of another year We can take a moment to look back Not on the year passing though. We will get around to that next week Hole of earthling history this once humble rock spinning lifelessly in space without an atmosphere to call its own Has come quite a long way in the past four point five billion ish years So as we gather around the yule logs this season Remember that as long as there is an earth or as long as there are earthlings should we one day shuttle off this earthly coil We are all in this together from our humble beginnings to our futures yet unknown The story of earthlings is yours to be told and or else is your story told and as vivid detail is right here on This week in science Coming up next They kind of mind that can't get enough I want to fill it all up with new discoveries that happen every day of the week There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek I want to know what's happening What's happening? What's happening this week in science? What's happening? What's happening? What's happening this week in science? Good science to you Kiki and Blair And the good science to you too Justin Blair and look there's a little Sufi here also There is there is Welcome everyone to another episode of this week in science We are back yet again to talk about all of the science that we enjoyed from the past week There's all sorts of science out there bringing us into this wonderful holiday season. So Without any further ado, let's jingle those science bells We have some stories about dark matter photosynthesis and memory Justin, what do you have? I? Have got ancient earthlings Fda fecal matters and a new use for sperm New uses all right just what we needed maybe and Blair, what's in the animal corner? I have some of that savage justice you spoke about a moment ago I have bird brain intelligence, and I have a little good old fashioned Education, this is gonna be like a Christmas present for me a little twistmas early twistmas present talking about bird brains I brought you bird brains on the first day of Christmas. No What is it? It's like I don't know seventh day of Christmas 12th day of Christmas actually Christmas see I wouldn't even know Oh Yes, it's gonna be magical as we move into this week and Before we jump all the way in I want you guys to read to know Remember I'm reminding you that you can subscribe if you are not already subscribed. Please mash hit Whatever you do hit that subscribe button Hit the like button wherever you're watching or listening if you like twist like us make sure to subscribe to us iTunes the Google play podcast portal stitcher speaker tune in all over the place. You can find us on YouTube Hey, YouTube and on Facebook. Hello, Facebook. I'm looking at you You can find us just by looking for this week in science You can find our website twist.org where you can before the new year gets going Find information about our 2018 twist Blair's animal corner calendars. Oh, do you mean this? Yes, these little calendars that Blair worked very hard to put together for us once again and a lot of people I'm loving it and seeing images people are sending to us on social media of the coloring. They're already doing and it's Just fabulous be sure if you do tweet An image of your coloring to Blair that you label what colors you've used. Oh, yeah, because remember Blair's colorblind That's really nice Someone sent me a purple and yellow salamander and they named it as such which made it very clearly gorgeous to me otherwise It was pretty but That's right name those colors label those colors everybody And additionally remember that we will be coming to San Francisco for the SF sketch fest event on January 18th And our Facebook page also has an event Has event information there that you can find over at Facebook Okay, all that Nattering done about things that are going on twistily related Let's talk about the science You know, we love the dark matter here, right dark matter We like dark matter. We believe in dark matter. Oh, never mind the dark matter. There's no such thing as dark matter It's a fudge factor. No, it's not. It's real Well much evidence suggests that dark matter is a thing that there is something particles something With mass that does not emit light in a range that is visible So it's dark, right doesn't show up on our normal visible light Analysis and so it makes up about 85% of the entire universe and we can't see it We don't really know where it is. We know that there is there's evidence of it because of the clumping of matter that we can see now a new Bit of information coming out of NASA's Chandra x-ray observatory the ESA's XMM Newton and Hitomi Which is a Japanese led x-ray telescope? they have come up with a really kind of odd and interesting interpretation of x-ray data from some distant galaxies that Might help scientists determine What this dark matter stuff is? How does it act? How does what is it? How does it act all these questions, right? so This story started in 2014 when astronomers a team led by Esra booboo from Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Massachusetts found a very curious spike of energy x-ray energy at In at the Chandra and XMM Newton observations in the Perseus galaxy cluster This spike was at an energy level of 3.5 kilo electron volts and this is not very easily explained in terms of previous data or even predicted data for Predicted astronomical objects and so everyone said well, it's not really predicted. We can't really explain it Maybe it's from dark matter. Maybe this is the dark matter that we've been looking for And so they have been trying to check it out some more they found this 3.5 kilo electron volt spike in 73 other galaxy clusters that they studied using the XMM Newton telescope and the Story thickens though when the Hitomi Japanese X-ray telescope said I'm gonna look at the Perseus. Well, the telescope didn't say it the researchers aimed at the telescope at the Perseus galaxy and They looked for that 3.5 kilo electron volt energy spike and they didn't find it and so everybody went Okay, that's weird and According to one of the co-authors of this new study that has been released Francesca day from Oxford says one might think that when his Hitomi didn't see the 3.5 kilo electron volt line that we would have just thrown in the towel for this line of investigation on the contrary This is where like in any good story an interesting plot twist occurred so the researchers looked at the images Hitomi had fuzzier images than Chandra and the data from its Perseus the Perseus cluster had a mixture of X-ray signals from the hot gas that surrounds the galaxy that is in the center of the cluster and also X-ray emission from around the supermassive black hole in the galaxy and so Chandra Being that it's a little has better eyes was able to separate the contribution from the two Regions and so booboo at all took the x-ray signal from the hot gas They removed point sources from their analysis Including x-rays from material near the supermassive black hole and they reanalyze the Chandra Chandra data from close to the black hole at the Perseus cluster that they had gotten back in 2009 and they found evidence For a deficit rather than a surplus of x-rays at 3.5 kilo electron volts It all falls in line around this 3.5 kilo electron volts And what it suggests is that something in the Perseus galaxy is actually absorbing x-rays at 3.5 kilo electron volts, which if you think of dark matter Dark matter would be more likely to absorb Right Yeah, so now they have to explain all of this behavior detecting absorption of x-ray light And the emission of the x-ray light at the same energy level when they look at the hot gas so you've got the Absorption by the black hole and the emission by the hot gas and so they kind of have to figure out What's going on there and they suggest that dark matter particles might be like atoms where maybe they have two Energy states that are separated by 3.5 kilo electron volts so that like atoms when they get hit by a photon of light They get or electrons they get boosted up to a higher energy level and then they emit light So they've absorbed light Get boosted up to a higher energy level emit light at that level and then they fall back down so atoms have this kind of dual dual state that That happens with absorption and emission and so maybe that happens with dark matter as well Maybe but we do not know so astronomers are going to go back to the Perseus cluster They're going to have to look at it and others like it to be able to determine whether this dip is real to also Kind of look at other hypotheses and figure out if there are any other Explanations that they haven't looked at Maybe it's a statistical error. Maybe it's an instrumental error. Maybe, you know, they're maybe it's this is Like some other things where the physicists just didn't plug something in appropriately You know Yeah, so the dark matter mystery moves on but this is a very interesting finding and could lead to other interesting Experiments and observations based around this 3.5 kilo electron volt energy spike Yeah, it's I mean it's It's hard from this side of the data To not still see it as a bit of a fudge factor just because it seems like every time they go this data doesn't make sense Must be dark matter Right, this doesn't make sense. We're not really seeing what we Matter I Am sure that that's not the way they came to the suggestion that it was dark matter I know there's much more science more to that But it I can't help but hear it sounding a little bit like that edit You you didn't get you didn't get my check. I know I sent it. Ah, must be dark matter That's all right, it's sometimes it can absorb checks when they're sent to the mail. I hear that's a big problem these days Yeah, dark matter can can manifest as both a positive in the bank account and a negative so Who's to say there's not enough funds there come on Matter it's actually Bitcoin So there is a little there could be a little bit of that but it's also that you know The other part of it is if there is this thing that's out there. That's dark matter. That's omnipresent in the universe Whenever we find these strange quirks, it's possible that they're well, I can't say quirks Whenever we we may be describing it bit by bit like you might describe An elephant in a dark room by five different people who are on different ends of it one who's got the tails Is that skinny kind of like a snake somebody else has got the trunk It's like no, it's like a really big snake and then somebody else has got a leg and it's like no It's more tree like then and they can't seem to agree even though they're all describing different aspects of the same thing Maybe yeah, eventually though all of them maybe start talking to each other and realize they're all talking about the same thing That's what it just takes more time That's right It's like elephants. Yeah, dark matter is like elephants. That's right. It is true. It is true Moving forward from dark matter NASA announced today How it's gonna spend some money There was a under the new frontiers program there were proposals submitted To as a you know contest basically to determine NASA's next missions within the solar system and in the new frontiers program which puts a maximum of 850 million dollars on a project. I believe yeah a Cost cap of around 850 million dollars Other missions that have been very successful coming out of this new frontiers program are the new horizons mission to Pluto and a Kuiper belt object and also the Juno mission to Jupiter Which we're actually active which is active at the moment bring it sending back beautiful images of Jupiter and the Osiris Rex Craft which is also going to be Rondevooing with asteroid Bennu for a sample return mission So the announcement today Drumroll, well, it's not really a drumroll because you probably already heard it already But I'll tell you now the NASA's science mission directorate has said these are tantalizing Investigations that seek to answer some of the biggest questions in our solar system today. So Next one is the Caesar mission comet astrobiology exploration sample return another sample return mission The Caesar mission is going to head over to 67p Churyumov Garrison Menko where the ESA is Rosetta craft Bounced and didn't send back all the data that it had planned to send back But we got some we landed the Rosetta craft on that Churyumov Garrison Menko and now NASA says we're gonna go there get a sample and come back So 67p another target again. The other finalist is the dragonfly mission And this one this one actually I mean the Caesar mission. I'm like, yeah, okay, the dragonfly mission I am excited about this is a drone like rota craft a dual quadcopter Lander that is going to Saturn's moon Titan Which which is an ocean world frozen ocean under the surface this is going to be led by Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland and This is going to the dragonfly mission will be able to land and then fly to multiple locations on the surface of Titan Some hundreds of miles apart to be able to sample materials Determine surface composition to look into Titan's unique organic chemistry and the possibility for habitability of microbial life monitor atmospheric and surface conditions image landforms to investigate geological processes and Perform seismic studies. So oh this one is going to be exciting But you know this now just means they are just beginning they will get the funds to be able to Possibly move forward to be launched at some point in the future but we all know that many of these missions take decades if not longer from conceptualization to launch and actualization so Let's put those in our sights for the future everyone We will leave the planet and head out into the outer solar system again In a few years It'll happen some day Some way Yeah, I know I'm gonna channel my inner Barbara barb barb and then My last story to open up the show as we as we go on and on and on This is kind of gonna lead into Justin's story Justin's got an old story. So do I so published in the journal Geology? researchers From Canada from McGill University have published on finding the world's oldest algae fossils Guess how old the world's oldest algae fossils are algae algae, right? photosynthetic organism I would guess and this is Just a guess that would be 1.047 million years Millioner 1.047 million billion billion billion billion billion. I'm gonna go with four billion Well Justin is the more accurate These you are getting great at these games based on Probably looked at this story earlier today based on the siding researchers researchers They found algae fossils. They're a billion years old from 1.8 to 0.8 billion years ago archae bacteria and other complex minorly complex organisms that have gone extinct they used to inhabit the planet's oceans and Yeah, algae started about a billion years ago But based on their finding of one particular fossilized algae called Bangiomorpha pubescens these were first discovered in rocks in Arctic Canada in 1990 it They were then able to use molecular clocks to guess at what point that algae would have engulfed Another microorganism that allowed it to be photosynthetic and they push it back Photosynthesis gets pushed back to 1.25 billion years ago long long before there were ever plants on the land Long before there was even oxygen in the atmosphere photosynthesis photosynthesis was Runnin runnin rampant growing in the oceans Building up the oxygen on our planet for us and managing in a very warm climate at the time Yeah, it's also very interesting this time period from 1.8 to 0.8 billion years ago It was called the boring billion Because there wasn't a lot going on it was all this kind of unicellular slightly complex ocean Life and not there. It wasn't like big structural evolutionary changes going on and so that algae is an interesting kiki. I think it's very interesting I just think it's funny that Geologists, you know, they got really excited about the Cambrian explosion, you know stuff like that proliferation of life and different forms of life and you know when you have Mass extinctions, that's a big deal. There was this time period as like a billion years Where are just these little sell these creatures floated around making oxygen? And that you know, it might have been boring, but it was very very helpful Yeah, I mean that sweet sweet oxygen had to come from somewhere Yeah, so the researchers say that They expect and hope that other scientists will plug this age for Bangio morphopubescence into their own molecular clocks to calculate the timing of important evolutionary events and test their results If other scientists envision a better way to calculate when the chloroplast the photosynthetic Microbe that was engulfed when it emerged The scientific community will eventually decide which estimate seems most reasonable and find new ways to test it. Ah Yes science Progresses through new experiments and new technology and new methodologies. And so while we say 1.25 billion years ago It could be give or take Justin what you got? What do I have? Indeed, this is researchers at UCLA and University of Wisconsin Madison have confirmed the oldest fossils ever found and In doing so the earliest evidence of life on earth Yeah, microscopic fossils discovered in a 3.5 billion year old piece of rock in Western Australia Study published in the proceedings National Academy of Sciences led by J. William shop shop Professor of paleobiology UCLA and John W. Valley professor of geoscience University of Wisconsin Madison Microfossils were first described in the journal science 1993 by scoff and his team which identified them Based largely on the fossils unique cylindrical and filamentous shapes These are very very very tiny fossils, too So he had to look very closely shop bubble is further sporting evidence of their biological identities in 2002 This time the research relied on new technology and scientific expertise developed by researchers at UW Madison, Wisconsin Sims laboratory So there had been there had been earlier interpretations of scoff's work That had been disputed critics argued that they could be just odd minerals that only appeared similar to biological specimens So they this new testing was sort of necessary to get rid of the critics They the study describes 11 microbial specimens from five separate Toxa including their morphologies to chemical signatures that are characteristic of life So not only did they find a microbe? They found 11 within these micro fossils According to Valley says these new findings put past doubts to rest The micro fossils are indeed Biological, I think it's settled. He says or I think it's settled. I just kind of read into When you're just saying text Yeah, I think I think it's settled. I'm gonna say it more confident. I think it's settled. He says Using a secondary ion mass spectrometer one of just a handful of such instruments in the world Valley news team were able to separate the carbon composing each fossil into its constituent isotopes and measure their ratios Isotopes with different versions of the same chemical element That vary in their masses different organic substances whether in rock Microbial animal-contained characteristic ratios of their stable carbon isotopes So looking at this they said aha. Yes, it's life through some sort of magic process of science I think that's how they date it though is with the with the isotopes so Now differences in carbon isotope ratios correlate with their shapes If they're not biological, there is no reason for such a correlation Their C13 to C12 ratios are characteristic of biology and metabolic function based on this information Researchers were also able to assign identities and likely physiological behaviors to the fossils locked inside the rock Results so that these are primitive, but a diverse Primitive group of organisms team identified a complex group microbes phototropic Bacteria that would have relied on the Sun to produce energy Archea that produce methane and gamma proteobacteria that consumed the methane. So you got a nice little Biological circle there an important constituent They say methane of early Earth atmosphere before the oxygen that wouldn't show up for billions of years as we now know So you said life is is at least three and a half billion years old now and an 11 Forms of it and in this and these micro fossils much closer to my previous guess of four billion It took the Valley's team nearly ten years to develop the processes to act accurately Analyze the micro fossils in preparation for analysis The team needed to painstakingly grind the original samples down as slowly as possible To expose the delicate fossils themselves All suspended at different levels within the rock and cased in a hard layer of quartz And they had to do this without destroying the fossils. So each micro fossil is only about 10 micrometers wide So the fossil grinding took place Times one micrometer at a time for those not familiar with the micro meter system One micrometer is approximately the same as one billionth of a meter So that's Very small Valley are part of the Wisconsin Astrobiology Research Consortium or consortium Funded by the NASA Astrobiology Institute. So this organization Exists a study and understand the origins the future nature of life on not just this planet, but throughout the universe and Chope says studies like this indicate life Could be common throughout the universe But importantly here on earth because the several different types of microbes were shown to be already present by 3.5 billion years Yeah, it tells us life had to begin Substantially earlier, right, which is they were that if they were that Substantial they had it had to be billions of years before that. Yeah, so they're not saying how much earlier They don't have they're not doing the biological clock on this one trying to say how they got evolved backwards but Earlier studies by Valley and his team back in 2001 did show Liquid water oceans existed as early as 4.3 billion years ago Which was 800 million years before the fossils of this study So and that would be just 250 million years after we have our estimation for the formation of earth Which means that the earth might be older than we think or That life just Doesn't take long to find a way or it came from somewhere else Like aliens but but but in a certain way it kind of wouldn't matter Because we're all in space together. Anyway, man Oh Space is big You may think it's a long way to the corner store, but that's just peanuts to space Yeah, I just this kind of a this kind of a study is so fascinating to me because it's we're looking at things that ever smaller scales and There's always that question of even though something looks like a Fossil for microbial life. Is it really and so this really gets at it with the chemical signatures. So there are organic The organic metabolites the signatures of life having been there and been metabolizing and Changing its environment and so these kinds of Tests are actually going to be really Really useful for us looking at other planets even or moons of planets like Titan When they're looking for the chemical signature of habitability or even on Mars Can we look for signatures like this? And and also what's kind of really difficult, you know, even looking at our own planet? Here we found the your algae fossils came from an Arctic region of Canada and This this these bacteria fossils are Happen to be a an exposed bit of rock and western Australia that hasn't undergone the tectonic or a rose of You know processes so that it's managed to stay preserved miraculously on the surface of the planet accessible and findable and viewable not very many areas on the planet have That kind of an ancient history that you could even pull from So yeah, the other one that we we reported in September or October, I think it was September or October on some other Canadian rocks Maybe are very maybe they're similar in location to To the rocks where the algae were located, but there were other rocks. I remember it was I think they determined the chemical traces of The ancient life to be around three point nine five or four billion years old so you know, but our our ability to Find these things further and further back isn't improving It's good that scientists are skeptical and that the burden of proof is On showing the extraordinary, you know on really showing we the evidence to support the hypothesis that this is Really old life versus not just a weird chemical aberrants, you know Yeah, but yeah life is old man Gotta get it a cane. Hmm. Hmm. I Don't know in the grand scheme of things life might just be getting started Yeah, how do we know how do we know how do we know? ours is On the fingernail of the sands of time. I don't know. It's right. I don't know. I'm only looking backwards I'm brand new going forward You know what's new this is this week in science and it's time for Get out your jazz hands. There's animal corner with black And Except for giant Yeah, I have some sweet Sweet justice Let me ask you a question if you see someone doing something wrong Do you demand that? Justice be served. I call Wonder Woman You want to see her show up with her lasso of truth you want to see that that miscreant cart it off to jail because There is right and there is wrong And if we have to follow what is right and what is wrong then they better and they better get their Justice served they better get their just desserts because they shouldn't be allowed to Kind of gray areas too. Well, isn't justice a meaningless word anyway I mean because everybody going to court wants justice But I mean the judge decides one of them gets it when doesn't but they both believe that that's what they're there for well An international team of researchers recently published a study in the journal natural their nature human year, excuse me about human children chimpanzees and crime and punishment So one of these studies was done with chimpanzees in a zoo the other one was done with children from four to six years old in a laboratory and They wanted to see what was similar and what was different about their expectation of justice So first the chimpanzees they were brought alone into a room. They interacted with a human researcher In some scenarios the human offered the chimp some food in other scenarios the human Showed them the food but didn't share it and After each scenario mean another human entered the scene carrying a stick which they used to pretend to Hit the first human and the chimp watched Yeah, both actors moved to another room The chimp could only continue to watch what was happening if they worked very hard They put a lot of physical work into pulling back a heavy door What they found was at the chimps Really really really wanted to see that bad human the one who withheld the snacks They really wanted to see them get hit more They had no interest to even try to open the door to watch the good human the one who shared get hit So wait a second Let me finish so now to the children 72 children between the ages of two and six years old watched a puppet show That puppet offered the child a toy a Toy that the child had previously proven To show a preference for you know call it a favorite or preferred toy in some scenarios They handed the toy the puppet handed the toy straight to the child in others just like with the chimps They showed them the toy and then kept it Then another puppet entered the scene and started hitting the first puppet Then the action moved behind a screen Here's where it gets interesting if the child wanted to continue watching what was happening with the puppets they had to give up stickers Children love stickers. They really do it is stickers illogical that was their payment and They found that the older children about four to six year olds were willing to give up stickers to watch the bad Puppet the one who withheld the toy to watch that puppet get more abuse But they did not give up stickers to watch the good puppets Get it children younger than that. However, we're willing to give up stickers in either scenario. So either It's not care about stickers Don't care as much about stickers Or they're just interested in watching. I mean think about it little kids are like sponges So maybe they're just they're just thinking that those puppets are doing something. What are they doing? You know, it could be stickers But at least with the older children and with the chimps we're seeing a very common trait here that they are interested in seeing this What we are projecting as a punishment or justice scenario Enough to exert work or to give up something else they want I Go ahead. I'm chomping at the bit here because even from the chimps the first one. I came to a different conclusion Okay, let's hear it. I came to the conclusion that chimps and older children are just greedy Self selfish and so they got the treat or the toy From from the one that started getting hit and then they have no interest. I already got the treat What do I care and then the one that didn't give it to him is now getting hit now They're thinking maybe he's gonna drop it. I might have a chance of grabbing it Interesting interesting. I mean, that's we you know, we can't we can't rule that out We don't know what's going on in their brains so this I would agree with you a lot of this study appears to be some projection of the thought processes going on in the chimps and the human child child's heads but There is definitely a correlation here between wanting to see a negative interaction After they themselves had a negative interaction with someone. Well, we know that tit for tat is Very important social behavior that it's it is this is a behavior that enforce reinforces Social norms, you know, you know Over time that somebody in your social circle is not going to give you things and so either They need to not be in your social circle anymore because they don't share or They get they have to have a punishment It would be nice to see them be punished because they're not interacting in the right way So there's some kind of balancing also show a whole hearted Lack of concern for what's happening to somebody who just gave you something who just gave you a gift And you don't even care to see what eventually happens to them while they're getting beat Fine, I got a treat. What do I care? Yeah? There's a dark side of that you can read And come up with a completely different conclusion So the question is whether the interest is a negative or a positive, right? Are they interested in looking at them to see what's going on because there's concern or are they looking at them to see? What's going on because they want to watch this other individual get hurt, right? And then there's this further question of the difference between punishment and reinforcement a lot of the tit for tat type of stuff That we've talked about on the show and that we've seen in scientific journals before is Reinforcement-based I will help you if you help me. Mm-hmm. This is the this is one of the the first studies I haven't seen a lot of studies Based on a punishment idea, which is why this caught my eye because it's something I haven't seen a lot of Research on in the past, but you would expect with the reinforcement model that The positive interaction where you're given food or given a toy that would make you more concerned for the individual Who had you'd had that positive interaction with and so Justin's point is really good one. What else is going on here? That you surprised how you've met here the difference between concern and Interest based on, you know wanting to see justice, right? And I actually with conversations with my six-year-old, you know, and at the age of the kids who were in this study You know, we've had some big Conversations over the last you know over the last year or so in kindergarten and first grade about things happening That were not fair Where he didn't get an ice cream and everybody else got one and he was angry about it I mean so angry that he he wanted other people to to be punished He did Because you get the ice cream that everyone else got and so his verbalization of his emotions He was he's actually, you know, there's a lot going on there that I you know Actually think that yeah, maybe those six-year-olds are pretty happy to give up stickers to see some Punishment needed out to these mean individuals who didn't do something that You know, they that that they offered a toy and then didn't give it to them Yeah, so maybe if we can find a better way to parse out the What's happening there? What's happening there in their brain? What what is the? What is the motivation behind watching right because I would I would argue it's likely that you're right Kiki that a desire for fairness and for for proper punishment May come before cooperation, yeah selflessness and because Things about humanity and chimpanzee Yeah, because as a toddler or as a chimp your entire world is yourself so you might not be worried about that person over there getting hurt because They they don't have anything to do with you But you might want to make sure that someone who did you wrong was not gonna do it again Yep, I think they're hoping that they that that the The puppet or the person getting hit that that still has a treat is just gonna drop it. I'm sticking to that one Reward to be gained on that scenario in the chimp in the chimp scenario the human ate it So there was no dropping it. Oh Okay, well that does change it a little bit So they just wanted to see the human that cheated them out of their snack spit it up Was a graham cracker something like that not gonna work out so well Moving on my next story is about bird brains or rather not the brain themselves But what the brain does and we've talked a little bit on the show about African gray parrots Most people who are into animals even a little bit are aware that they are super smart There have been African gray parrots. Oh gosh, I can't remember his name. There was one that alert Alex to identify different Different items and knew the names for those items. They have an amazing vocabulary Well, something else that they have that our younger ones don't have in terms of humans is a good idea of Conservation of mass and understanding of volume Wow, yes, so there's this classic Piaget and test Which is all about understanding volume and how the same volume of something can take different shapes but it never changes in amount and The way that works usually with a child you show two identical glasses of something usually juice or something like that that they would want they then you ask them which one they want and And most children will recognize same glass same amount. They're the same Then they pour that juice from the same two glasses into different containers One is tall and thin one is short and squat and then again They ask the child to choose and until about age six again lots of talking about six-year-olds tonight Until about age six. They choose the taller container Even though they just saw it come from a glass that held the same amount Because since it's tall and thin it appears to them. It's a bit of an optical illusion for them It appears to take more space. So they think it has more juice now Well in a recent study from Harvard, it messed up on this with like as adults with glasses of water and explanations of glaciers melting Absolutely. Yes, and my my roommate whenever she's cooking. She always says I'm terrible at conservation of mass She'll cook up a big bowl of something and then she'll try to pour it into a Tupperware and it won't ever fit so we it's something that we struggle with but in Most humans after age six would be able to recognize if you started with two cups cups of juice It wasn't changing phases at all. You're just putting it in different containers that in theory is not going to change in amount Right. So this new study from Harvard psychology department looking at Griffin in African Gray parrot a very smart African Gray parrot He was given the same test. He was shown two cups with different amounts of juice this time different amounts Not the same amount. They were then poured into cups One had a false bottom so that it was designed so that the two amounts then looked equal But he was able to recognize which cup held more based on which one started out as more This is even when they tried to Shade or hide the process a little bit as long as they didn't mix up the cups He was able to figure it out And so this is showing us that these birds actually have a pretty good idea of conservation of mass and how volume works and Which makes sense because in the wild everything doesn't come in a graduated cylinder, right? Things come in different shapes and sizes and they need to be able to judge What is more? What is less? What is the same and The example that they give here one of the main Researcher says the idea here is that in their environment birds would need to know that changes and appearance have no effect on Quantity for example a squished piece of fruit has the same amount of nutritional value as an unsquished piece of fruit But now I'm editorializing the squished one it might be much easier to get might be much sweeter Might have other things about it that make it better, right? And so by recognizing that the same amount of fruit. It's the same calories They might be better off to be able to recognize that Volume is conserved Nice So these bird brains Smarter than a six-year-old It's gonna be the next it's gonna be the next hit television show is your bird smarter than a six-year-old Well, and we know that for example crows have a way better idea of object permanence than a lot of toddler human toddlers do Yeah, so it's just added to the list of things that birds have figured out that Small humans haven't yet I think I mean it's it's an interesting comparison with the parrots, especially because they have long lives and they also have a longer Adolescence Comparatively they stay with their their parents for a couple of years And humans toddlers, you know, we have a very long Youth and developmental period comparatively so But we like we compare what's so interesting that we try and make these comparisons between different species that have these completely different developmental Periods and so the question of is this bird that's an adult and having to make potentially make survival decisions on its own without any input from a you know a mentor is That is that bird as as smart as a two-year-old child that is still being completely Dotted over and never has to make a decision of its own and still probably eat sand out of a sandbox That's such a good point too because I think that I think that we keep comparing animals to toddler humans Because there is this expectation that fundamentally there's no way animals can be as smart as adult humans So we have to draw comparisons to half-baked humans humans that are not ready to flourish and go out on their own and so That you're right. It might fundamentally be an antiquated question and an antiquated equivalency I Think it's I think it is in terms of the equivalency aspect for sure It's you know, we we we keep going coming back to this idea of how smart animals really are and intelligence Being adapted to the environment in which an animal lives for the lifestyle that the animal Needs and so it's this these are survival questions. These are questions that you know that compare its apples and oranges You just you just gave me a huge aha moment almost as big as The one where I for the very first time asked myself wait What even is a species? Why are we why are we comparing grown functioning adult animals to babies? I Assumption that they're stupid or they're not developmentally ready to be compared to adult humans But I bet like we were talking about they're adult humans out there that probably aren't as good at and at judging volumes As this African great parrot is so maybe that's our new question Right. What percentile of human adults are they equivalent to? Yeah, exactly. I mean I I kind of get it I mean we only know Ourselves and so this is like trying to put other animals into the human Perception our box of how things work, you know, and but it doesn't fit correctly it's It's kluji and it doesn't doesn't make me happy most of the time But it is but this was a good test because it does show that I mean We can even get rid of this. Hey two-year-olds can't do this get rid of that entirely Because the entire story is it's not interesting, right the entire story is These adult African great parrots have this volume and mass conservation ability That we didn't know they had Absolutely, there's the story I love it To be fair. Yeah, and to be fair too. These are these are parrots that were raised by humans Right, right. You had humans being raised by parrots You would probably find the result to be completely different those Babies by parrots probably be pretty good at this task We will see All right, everybody. Let's go cross-foster some species and ideas Over the break. This is this week in science It is time for us to take a short break because Justin I think needs to go outside. Maybe I don't know He needs to go for a walk. I have some things to say stay tuned for the second half I've got a memory for you and Justin's gonna start talking about poo Hi everybody, thanks so much for watching or for listening to this week in science We are glad you're with us right now and I just want to let you know remind you that our twist blairs animal corner 2018 calendars are available now They are black and white calendars. It wasn't a misprint. These calendars Are for you to fill in with color. 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We really could not do this without you We're back with more this weekend science Yes, we are and it is time now for that wonderful segment of our show where we talk about what science has done for us lately Oh my goodness this weekend. What has science done for me lately? This week's note comes from steve zwidinger I'm alive because of science I was born premature in years past. I probably would not have made it Only bad part is I can't truthfully say I was born ready Steve I'm glad that you you had a little joke about it, but yeah medical science Saves so many lives every year Baby's lives allows people to join the world and have a chance that maybe they would not have had at one point in time Thank you for being with us and thanks science. You're able to be here with us Thank you Everyone We need you to write in tell us your stories. Tell us your comments What has science done for you lately? How has it helped you? Send us a short poem a haiku or send us a little bit longer paragraph or something We want to know what science does for you every day leave us a message on our facebook page That is facebook.com slash this week in science Remember we're gonna fill this segment of the show with something from you every single week and we can keep doing this Don't let this energy energy slow slow down. No, no We're gonna keep it going Now Justin Yes Oh, what do you have for us now? Uh fecal matter transplants apparently becoming a popular thing um And there was a policy forum that was uh talking about it and considering What the appropriate regulatory framework for such enthusiastic behavior might be Uh, they outlined a few key areas for improvement Being that there really is much they say the uh transfer of stool from one healthy donor to a recipient for recurrent clostridium difficile infection Is considered to be standard of care therapy microbial transfers they say are increasingly being considered as treatment for other conditions as well And they're gaining such popularity that some people are self-administering fecal matter transplants as we have We had a guest on the show who did just that. Yep Oh jaziah look what you've started so So when people are doing a kind of di y fmt Uh fecal matter transplanting they are doing so with unscreened stool samples Thanks So the FDA has a stance on this the us food and drug administration Who's one of their main jobs is to prevent fecal matter from being ingested by people Right now has to come up with the guidance That makes it okay, and they did publish Uh some documents that would require stool banks to submit an Investigational new drug application to obtain and distribute stool samples to physicians And which is of course creating a lot of barriers costs and and questions associated with Exactly how you do that and then still allow people who have a medical need for a fecal matter matter transplant The authors of this policy forum propose a different approach where stool banks are required to report to a registry allowing for ongoing capture of patient outcome data on safety and effectiveness. So basically It happens and then we'll find out what happens after that But they're saying we should not be required to have this new drug application And especially since I guess, you know stool has been around long enough that we could have kind of a good idea of of you know The substance itself That we're working with even though we may not know all of the outcomes Directly from a fecal matter transplant. They also recommend that doctors and laboratories retain the ability to distribute um for for the dephosal clisterine dephosal treatment at their discretion But not for the unproven therapies Meanwhile, so meanwhile not really any of the off-label stuff Right, right not off-label. However, meanwhile Dr. Justin's not a real doctor wonder cure for all that alesia probiotic poo pills remain available for purchase while supplies last Though actually taking them is not recommended or advised even if done so as directed Yeah, I think that this This whole thing. I mean it's good that there's a policy forum It's great that they're trying to Standardize fecal transplants. I mean, there's a huge potential here for unknown or Undetected pathogenic bacteria to be passed from one individual to another and cause significant disease and trauma You know, and if it's done In an unregulated way, I mean if people are just getting poop from their friends You know feces from feces from friends Oh dear, and if if they are you know sourcing potentially Healthy fecal matter on their own. This is you know, this is independent. This is diy It's outside the medical institute into institution But when you're talking about doctors in the medical setting giving treatments You know the clinics should be registered There should be some amount of regulation over the treatments To know that there is that standard of care that is going to be helping people And that healthy fecal matter is going to be transplanted and not potentially pathogenic matter Three problems what I have with this. Yeah One is we really are just starting to learn About the microbiome Right so So we really don't know why things might work why they might be we don't know what we're introducing in in full In any fecal matter transplant We we really don't Completely understand all of the all of the conditions ramifications of these things The other part is also the number is You know if we're talking about limiting people from swapping microbes between each other Ah, where does that stop? That's a slippery slope between you need a permit to kiss somebody Engage in another particular types of activities that could swap microbes back and forth so on the on the human to human level I I don't think you can Really legislate that you can't DIY this this thing All right, that's a really tricky one. Well, yeah, I agree with that Here though is that by the FDA Starting to look at this it will get used more and more in the medical field And that's how we will learn how to do it right is through trials And and adjustments based on that so I I think that that ultimately this will help accelerate what we know And how we know how to use it I think so I I do worry though, you know, similar to You know homeopathic Treatments that have ended up Endangering the lives of babies That are sold at grocery stores on on health food aisles, you know, you don't want You know, I'm sorry Justin, but I don't necessarily want Dr. Mr. Justin's poop pills On on on a health food aisle at Safeway, you know, so that anybody can just Pick up their, you know over-the-counter fecal transplant poo pills You know From from the grocery store or even from little Holistic health food shops. That's just going to create a black market effect. Yeah We're under the table instead of over the counter is taking place and then Who knows what? Right. So so yeah, there's a whole lot of questions unless there's There's poop pills that you can get from your doctor that is covered by your insurance Then there's less need for a black market, isn't there? Yeah, or you're a Student and you're you know working out working this out in your lab with your lab partner Be part of a trial I guess I guess I guess part of the thing that I'm also thinking though the third thing was just how do you create legislation on what is the approved guidelines for something that can be so variable Between individuals like what screening I mean, it's not like okay. First thing you do you sterilize it completely Well, then that's that that's exactly when there's no point, right? Yeah How do you know what to screen in and out because we don't fully understand the microbiome? So we don't know what should be screened in or screened out There's there's a whole I mean outside of doing Ah, yeah, I don't even want to say I think there's some stuff you can do very easily like determine safe levels of ecoli In poo pills and go okay thrown out this batch is thrown out unacceptable That is going to save lives and they've already gone and they've already gone that far they already know to test, you know in the trials and in the actual Uh therapeutic treatment that's ongoing currently for like the quastridium difficile infections They are testing and they I mean they're not Sterilizing it 100% like you're saying but they're testing and making sure that there are not known pathogens That are being passed along but it takes the ability to test for that. Absolutely. Yeah And the and the oversight and the oversight. Yeah, and then you got it then it comes into like, okay. What's the shelf life? What's the these are important questions? And I but I think this is the what we're getting at is like the market aspect of it where this is a you know People selling the treatment and the therapy That's a different story altogether than you know Hey, I've got a gut problem. You're totally fine. Can I you know? Where you're talking yeah, can I have you know where you're talking to your friend? And instead of like you mentioned Justin, you know the kissing and the swapping spit or you know that kind of thing In this case, you're you're swapping other Biological material, um, you know, that's not regulated. That's not a market. That is just you and another person And so these are they are different. Um, they are different areas of legislation and regulation entirely Right, so I think what it'll end up coming down to will be Certain individuals who themselves are screened on a regular basis who actually make a profession out of being a professional donor Who go through have a set diet which though advertise, you know on their website This is the kind of food that I eat This is this is my recent doctor update. This is my recent Pathogen screening and you'll actually buying in some individual person because otherwise the anonymousness of it Nobody's really gonna want an anonymous Uh fecal matter transplant. I think you really do want to get to know As much as you care whether or not the chicken was free-ranged or whether the cow got hormones You're gonna want to know where this fecal matter transplant came from You're talking about trusting the source and so if it's from an individual and you're getting it from an individual You want to trust the source source the other question though is if it's a Finkle matter repository the where You know at a at a hospital or a lab or a clinic where they are take Quantities of material to process it and turn it into a therapeutic material Then you trust the clinic you trust the doctor you trust the hospital you have to do On that Well, absolutely because you're going to want to culture things From a sample you're not going to want to take samples because I don't know it's not it's There's no way to a hundred percent regulate What a person has been eating or anything there's going to be too much there's going to be too much background work on synthesizing something in between Them giving a sample and you getting it as opposed to them taking samples pulling out the bacterial strains they want Culturing though What the culture they don't know what they want It's the entire environment that they're adding So they can't just go in there and specifically say we know what it is Exactly. I think that's the whole biome and diversity of it. That's my prediction And unlike a blood drive or a blood bank Where you're being administered this blood typically in an emergency situation where you're not Necessarily caring as much, you know, there's been screening and it's easier to do that screening But in this situation where you might have time Months weeks years to consider your therapy You have that time to drill down and say, you know, I want to know the source I have time. I may even be able to choose my source Take them to the hospital with me Here's my here's my donor like you would do with a maybe if you had a relative who could give you a kidney or something and say hey Go ahead and put them through the basic screening Then back off jack or assist in the processing to put things in a nice neat pill for us Uh, but not necessarily have a bank. I think that bank would be Yeah, nobody would ever rob it. I do hope that we can, um, you know Forstall the nest the the necessity of this, you know with just a better modern diet But that's not that's not fair, right? That's we know that's not how that works It's not all from the food. In fact, sometimes the food That you eat is irrelevant and the outcomes are irrelevant To what your microbiome is and your microbiome makeup Is what makes some foods challenging and some foods not so yeah, yeah How do you regulate that? You know, it's gonna be it's interesting. I I hope to enjoy many more fecal conversations On this on this issue Oh man speaking of other things related to uh survival There are certain words maybe certain things that maybe we our brains evolved over or adapted over millions of years of evolution to To recall better some things, right are gonna help us survive and other things aren't so maybe those things that are gonna help us survive We want to remember those want to pay attention to them We're gonna remember them and so some researchers From binghamton university have just published a study on Asking people to recall various words so they They had a previous experiment which they replicated where subjects had to rate the relevance of different words Um in relation to a survival scenario On the ancient grasslands of africa. So probably something like oh, you know a saber-tooth tiger is Going to be is stalking you and going to be Trying to kill you which of these things would be Relevant a rock an apple ball stick They had to rate them then later after going through this word rating exercise They were tested on the words that they could recall and subjects in the previous experiment and in this one that was replicated We're able to recall more words That were related to survival So that so that had an evolutionary Uh basis So subjects recalled more words when faced with a scenario also that involved raising children But not in a scenario that was involved in Mating or seeking out a mate both activities are related to evolutionary success However, the researchers think that the mating scenario failed Or didn't have the same level of word recall As the child related scenario because the prehistoric ancestors that we had maybe didn't realize that After nine months that thing that they did Was the thing that led to the child Maybe they didn't understand In prehistory that mating could result in children because of the nine month delay But I don't know that's an evolutionary explanation that could use some work The researchers though they uh, they're trying to figure out it's unclear What the ancient grasslands survival scenario and the child rearing scenarios Why they caused more effective memory recall And the researchers argue that they think it has to do with The fact that those scenarios were more important to evolutionary success So they're going to try some new studies. They're going to determine the memory difference between A biological child and an adopted one as well as raising a pet dog And they're expecting that the biological child scenario is going to have the highest amount of word recall And the pet scenario is going to lead to the lowest recall. So Actually, we'll you know, maybe we'll hear more about this study as as they proceed With it. I think it's fascinating that they're It's our brains are so interesting in this that language or just words because of the way our brains Work in a metaphorical way when you read a word It forces you that's maybe a word. That's an object It forces you to Come up with the concept your brain basically imagines that object And so there's a lot of stuff going on in your head And so if you're looking at for say a scenario of surviving an attack on the serengeti the ancient planes that That you you you're probably going to imagine yourself holding a rock or a stick to fight off This attacking predatory animal And so those words my you know, you're not going to potentially imagine yourself eating an apple while You know what what words are going to stick in the metaphorical image that your brain is creating As you're thinking through this scenario yeah I like the way and so this mnemonic advantage it has a Um, it has a term in psychology. You can use it in your next conversation It's the survival processing effect That's right Certain words I guess I guess this is related and uh, but it is a weird thing. Um I remembered this scene of of hunting mastodons Or mammoths or mastodons. I'm not sure and and I it was to the point where I couldn't remember Where this this memory this this of this scene had taken place like I couldn't Think of a movie that it was in or anything to the point where I thought maybe You know, maybe I just dreamed it. Maybe it was a dream I had where I was hunting mastodons And then I was watching some random documentary and there was the scene like it was I just had seen it and I'd forgotten it but but the actual scene like everything it kind of leads up through and then they Uh, throw this rock down it lands on a mastodon. I totally had remembered this And it would I actually it haunted me for a little bit for like where this had come from where this That's interesting because this is maybe one of those one of those survival memories Uh, we're having witnessed or this this this mastodon thing had stuck in my head Like this is important information. You must remember if you ever remember this you ever on a high In a high peak and there's mastodons walking by and you have a rock You can throw it down and then you will eat for days and like somehow My mind registered that really hard. That's right survival Your brain was in survival training mode Speaking of survival training Many cancer treatments are harmful to the body at large so delivering drugs specifically to cancer cells Is something that researchers are looking at to minimize side effects They use stem cells bacteria nanobots and other carriers to deliver necessary drugs to cancer sites Now a new potential drug carrier to treat gynecological conditions has joined the fleet sperm Yeah, well, I mean think about it like Better than One who's specifically designed For this job scientists part in the journal acs nano that they have exploited the swimming power of sperm to ferrecia cancer drug directly to a cervical tumor In lab tests creating an effective way to target cancer cells with drugs is challenging Not for many many reasons drugs don't always travel deeply enough Through tissues they can get diluted in bodily fluids Or get sidetracked and taken up by healthy organs get around these issues Scientists have turned in some cases to loading pharmaceuticals in the bacteria Which can be effectively contained where they can put these drugs in there and the microbe hangs on to them as they propel themselves, but these can actually Uh, and they they've been successful in guiding the bacteria with magnetic fields Or other mechanisms to reach specific targets But they are bacteria and the body's immune system has a tendency to attack them and destroy them before they reach The desired target looking for another self-propelled cell as an alternative drug carrier uh carrier Mariana Medina Sanchez and colleagues at the Lebanon is institute for solid state materials research Dresden turned to sperm Where the researchers packed the common cancer drug Into bovine sperm cells and outfitted them with tiny magnetic harnesses using magnetic field A sperm hybrid motor was guided into a lab-grown tumor of cervical cancer cells When the harness arms pressed against the tumor the arms opened up releasing the sperm The sperm Then did what sperm do best And swam into the tumor Fused its membrane with that of a cancer cell and released the drug When unleashed by the thousands Drug-loaded sperm killed more than 80 of a cancerous ball while leaking very little of their payload in route Further workers needed to ensure the system could work in animals and eventually humans But researchers say the sperm motors Have the potential to one day treat cancer and other diseases in the female reproductive tract and Perhaps beyond opening up The possibility for an entire new line of products that dr. Justin's not a real doctor One to care for all that ails you to which oddly is the number two is the first one Not the second one Right This is great. I mean using uh, the natural motor this is I mean to go this is The sperm has been uh, it has adapted through human evolutionary history to navigate The female reproductive tract. It has the map. It has the map. It knows what it's supposed to do. It's swim Yeah, it knows the obstacles Yeah, it understands the conditions which it will be traveling adapted to the environment too It knows that it's a one-way mission So I wonder if you took a sperm from animals that have a different type of reproductive tract Like koalas and kangaroos And you tried to use that sperm in a in another kind of mammal if it would still work Yeah, so that's a great question. That is a great question. The they used bovine sperm cells Yeah, uh, because they were in a lab condition Well, straight shot straight shot straight shot for all those mammals, but There's koalas and kangaroos. It's a bit of a why curly q situation Yeah Right, so I I would assume if this was a human patient That they would be using human sperm Do you I think they would continue to use bovine sperm. I think that Yeah, they can get large quantities cows are already ranched and it's and they are They're ranched in decent quantities in them for medical purposes as well Um, don't you think that there's a research animals already? I would imagine it would be Yeah, I don't think people would want to um I feel like there would there would be more believe it or not more of an ick factor taking human Genetic packages And change Well, I'm just saying, you know, that's what they are right? So they're they're carrying human genetic, you know information and then you're changing its purpose That I feel like that actually might have more of a stigma on it Then using firm. Yes, but if you could if you could remove the genetic Information, which is uh, I would imagine what they would do. I mean, can you make sperm that only have? Uh a power and the motor Right, so that would be genetic information if you could make synthetic sperm Right. Well, so so part of it though. Isn't it though that like there's going to be biological rejection of Of I would think of a different species Uh, I I think that's the whole point though is that sperm are not as much of a red flag In an in an immune system as other things might be But I think that's you know, it's a it will be a question. Absolutely You know, I'll have to defer I'll have to defer to the ladies on the show I actually thought that it would be the opposite that the bovine Uh thousands of bovine sperm treatment would be More objectionable somehow. Well, I would see it as Um, what is then it is then very clearly a medicinal treatment. It right Superates it from this other use for human sperm and and at the and at this point This is a very early study. They're doing lab grown tumors. This is cervical cells in a dish. They're doing this is not You know, this isn't Looking this isn't actually in a human body at this point in time But what we're looking at is the mechanism. This is a molecular motor that has adapted to swim in this environment and to Deliver a payload and so if they can from this point on scientifically adapt the Um The messenger, you know, the the sperm itself can they scientifically adapt either bovine sperm To not be targeted by the immune system or human sperm to not contain a genetic payload at all And only be the motor component or is there a synthetic? Molecular machine that they can create that would do this same function or another choice possibly could you could you choose your donor? Again, would that make a difference? Would that I mean would that make a difference then people are like, okay, I know where this is coming from I'm comfortable with this genetic material being used And and again like unlike a blood bank where you're They're going for that blood pack because you've lost yours and you could die This one you may have more time Oh, you guys has it been nice and sunny in california recently? Mostly, yeah, it's been yes and cold. It's been cold and sunny Cold oh the cold, you know up here. It's been rainy and cold and oh the other day I was just talking about like My back was aching and I'm like, oh my joints are aching and I was Commenting I was like, oh, it's this rainy weather the rainy weather is making me achy Well, you know what I can't use that as an excuse anymore and neither can any of you Researchers publishing in the british medical journal bmj um from harvard medical school in fact used a big data approach to actually look into this common You know old saying of oh, you know, it's the rainy weather brings out the aches and the pain And they say uh, uh nope No, they looked they linked insurance claims from millions of doctor's visits with daily rainfall totals From thousands of national oceanic and atmospheric administration weather stations So they're basically using insurance claims as proxies for visits to The doctors and the researchers Say no matter how we looked at the data We didn't see any correlation between rainfall and physician visits for joint pain or back pain The bottom line is painful joints and sore backs may very well be unreliable forecasters Question though Yes There are other variables here. We're not looking at like do people not go to the doctor because it's raining out And they don't want to slip and fall Or maybe it's not really the kind of thing that you go to the doctor for because it's just kind of achy and you just Take a couple of ibuprofen or some acetaminophen or something and call it a day Especially if you think it's because of the rain, you might go if it still hurts in a couple days I'll go see the doctor A spike on sunny days. Ah, I I have an ache in my ankle, but I don't know what it is because it's not raining Yeah So I must rush to the doctor to find out where this mystery pain And my left big toe is coming from I would like to see instead of them taking people with habitual hip or knee Or ankle pain putting them in a room and changing the barometric pressure There you go. And then see If they start to feel pain Yes, that would be that would be a more uh experimental approach as opposed to this Kind of a data-based statistical observational approach Where did this study come from? The british medical journal bmj out of harvard medical school on You're slipping harvard. You're slipping That's right So the researchers looked at a variety of questions did more patients seek care for back pain or joint pain when it rained or Following periods of raining weather Were patients who went to the doctor for other reasons more likely to also report aching knees or backs around rainy days What if there were several rainy days in a row? And they've pretty much found that there was a complete absence of a rain effect in the overall group They also asked did patients with a prior diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis report more pain And no They did not and the researchers do say it's hard to prove a negative But in this flood of data if there was a clinically significant increase in pain We would have expected to find at least some small but significant sign of the effect And we didn't I don't know I don't know man I don't know. Yes, and I think you guys are right. There are many more factors That's exactly what I was thinking as I read this but oh my goodness big data. They're using big data Data computers to crunch lots and lots of numbers from giant insurance company data sets and um and weather stations from noah And this is all to determine whether or not people get achy when it rains Which I find interesting Any more stories you guys oh I have a quick one um quick quick uh This week in stating the obvious uh when people know more about things they fear them less In particular scary animals like sharks um a study on 500 visitors in an aquarium in sydney australia Found that in a pre and post survey They were less afraid of sharks when they knew more about How sharks move why they move the way they do how they hunt why they hunt the way they do And they were also less likely to blame sharks for incidents where a swimmer or surfer was bitten once they better understood shark behavior so This is mostly apropos in sydney because of the shark calling going on over there And the referendum on sharks anywhere near public beaches but ultimately It's proving the reason that we're here right now Is that the more people know about the natural world the less they'll fear it and the more they'll want to preserve it So there we go Man have no fear Nature is here Yeah, perfect. And just just to clarify because you didn't uh tell the key point. Uh, I think there are two Uh of that story, which is that If you're not in the ocean You're in absolutely no danger There's no reason to be afraid in the first place of your proximity to sharks Everywhere else So if you do have one of these you've got a phobia and unnatural fear of sharks Stay out the ocean. That's the easiest way Land shark Sorry old SNL skit. Yes. I remember land shark from a weekend update Yeah, so anyway, it was a nice feel-good moment considering what I do for a living Both here and in my day job and it shows that it actually does Do something And and listeners You can help Tell somebody they're more likely to get struck by lightning or die from being crushed by a vending machine Then they are to be bitten by a shark It may surprise them and they may think twice before they support a shark call and about buying that bag of corn chips Yeah, absolutely And thus began the north american vending machine curling You know that would be that bad going bring it back around to the poop pills and the microbiome might actually help us out a little bit That's what I was telling them. Oh, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna wait for the science channel to come out with Vending machine week. Yes. Well, that's like cow cow week. All right. They have shark week Over 200 people a year die from cows And less than 10 from sharks Yep, so we need a cow culling We do that All right, um, if you guys were paying attention to twitter and uh, and social media at the end of last week You might have heard about a washington post article that reported that officials at the cdc centers for disease control and prevention were told That by senior agency officials that they were prohibited from using a list of seven words or phrases In budget documents those words they became the seven dirty words of the cdc fetus transgender vulnerable entitlement diversity evidence-based and science-based This sparked a social media outcry From all of sciencedom and you know, everyone else people claiming that this is uh, it was an orwellian movement on the part of the administration to Limit free speech and also very many arguments and about this but it comes out turns out that uh, this That limiting speech was not necessarily the intent The director of the cdc tweeted on sunday. I want to assure you there are no banned words at cdc We will continue to talk about all our important public health programs And a bunch of people wanted more uh more Explanation so a spokesperson for the health and human services department, which is uh Above the cdc says the assertion that hss has banned words is a mischaracterization of the discussions regarding the formulation process Hss will continue to use the best scientific evidence available to improve the health of all americans now the officials are coming out and saying that the So-called ban as it reported is is not a ban but more a suggestion that individuals and members of the cdc applying for budgetary support in the that might go under conservative review processes that it might behoove them to use Different phrases if they want their research to get uh potentially get fully funded So it is a bit a bit double-speaky and a bit Orwellian but not in the way Think it's more to fly out so that the science can fly under the radar And still get money So by flying baby magic To the crazy idea that I have That is based on previous baby magic I think we have a way forward In a deserving manner for job creation within Yeah, but that's I mean like either way it's that's ridiculous. Yeah, either way it is ridiculous Just the fact that these conversations are being had that there are being alternative phrases handed out to uh to people to use for their documentation, uh that It's just a statement on the state of things As they are currently and uh and how people are starting to think about things to try and maintain funding for For certain things. Yeah So one of the alternatives instead of using the phrase science-based officials could say CDC bases its recommendations on science in consideration with community standards and wishes Wish No No, no Right No Don't don't like if if really if there's a political will out there to make science the word science Dirty bring it on Yeah, we'll have that we'll have that argument out out in public. We're not gonna We're not gonna dance around it. Yeah, so anyway the the bottom line of all this is that there are no banned words at the cdc there has been no suppression of free speech at this point in time, uh, there is There are people having uh political conversations related to budget and And funding so that's where it stands at this point in time. So the outcry in the outrage Um, we can we can reserve that For next time Oh, everyone. I think we have come to the end of another wonderful episode of this weekend science so much fun tonight Yeah, it's a good good one to close out the year on our science news That's right. This is our last science newsy story or show for 2017 next week Is our top 11 science stories for 2017? We will be counting them down From 11 all the way down to one. We'll tell you what we think why is it 11? Why is it 11 when everybody else is the top 10? Yeah It's one better It's one better. It's also you always want to know what didn't make the top 10 list, right? What was the one that almost made it but didn't create that one also, we'll tell you So we will be talking all the science of 2017 the best science of 2017 will be running it down next week And we hope you will be joining us if you have ideas thoughts on the top stories for 2017 tweet us I think we have a hashtag That of course i'm forgetting off the top of my head Yeah, we uh, I know we have a Why we do we have a hashtag somebody already sent one in Wait see now every time you say hashtag the thing that you say right after becomes the hashtag So now you have hashtag somebody already sent it in and I have hashtag my entire explanation that everything you say after hashtag Is the thing that people should be Yeah, so it's top 11 twist science twist science top 11 twi science if you can use that hashtag top 11 twi I still don't understand why we get rid of one of the s's top 11 this week in science Yeah, otherwise it would be this week in science science. Oh, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you're right Thank you blaire bass for putting that in the chat room top 11 twist science Tweet us. Let us know what you think should be on the top stories list And we will see what we think we will measure your input compared to our own, you know We're looking forward to that now is our time to say thank you to everyone Thank you as we come into twist mess for being a part of Everything twisty this year blaire. Justin. Thank you for being amazing hosts with me on this week in science I love doing the show with you both week after week I love coming here seeing the chat room seeing all the names of everyone in the chat room And the new names when new people show up. I notice you I see you in the chat room over at web chat I see you in youtube. I see you on facebook. I do I peek I may not I might not be talking to you all the time, but I see you I do Fada, thank you so much for your help on social media Identity for thank you for recording the show and making sure that I have a copy of it to publish to our podcast feed Week after week. Thank you so much for that and Brandon Thank you for helping to simulcast twist to facebook without all of you This would really not be the endeavor that it is all of you make this possible And also those of you on patreon. 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bilkova kurt larson larry garcia leila louis smith mark morzaro's marjorie mark marshall park matt setter matthew liotwin mitch knees more cowbell mountain sloth nathan greco orly radio patrick cone paul stanton paul disney phil nado philip shane randy mozuko richard henricks richard onimus richard porter rick ramus ross robert astin rodney ruddy garcia salgad sam shi wadis or frank adelec stefan insom steve debel steve lesmond steve michinsky the hardened family todd north cuttony steel tyler harrison tyron fong trainer 84 and ulysses adkins thank you everyone for all your support on patreon this year you have helped us get through another year of this weekend science and i would really especially like to um honor larry garcia who uh we were we discovered this last week is no longer with us he has passed this mortal coil but has been a long time friend and supporter of this weekend science and we will miss him as part of our community for everyone else thank you for continuing to be here and know that we will be here again next week on this weekend science at twist.org slash live you can watch and join our chat room don't worry if you can't make it we'll be here you can find past episodes at twist.org slash live at facebook.com slash this weekend science also just at twist.org where you will find all sorts of links for things like zazzle and patreon and paypal donations thank you for enjoying the show twist is also available as a podcast just google this weekend science in your itunes directory or if you have a mobile type device you can look for twist the number forwardroid app in the android marketplace or simply this weekend science in anything apple market place for more information on anything you've heard here today show notes will be available on our website that's at www.twist.org where you can also make comments and start conversations with the hosts and other listeners or you can contact us directly email kirsten at kirsten at thisweekandscience.com 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is a couple of grand this week science is coming your way so everybody listen to what i say i use the scientific method and i'll broadcast my opinion all of this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science science i've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that's what i say may not represent your views but i've done the calculations and i've got a plan if you listen to the science you may just better understand that we're not trying to threaten your philosophy we're just trying to save the world from japanese this week in science is coming away so everybody listen to everything we say and if you use our methods that are rolling and die we may rid the world of toxoplasma got the eye because it's this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science science science i've got a laundry list of items i want to address from stopping global hunger to dredging Loch Ness i'm trying to promote more rational thought and i'll try to answer any question you've got but how can i ever see the changes i seek when i can only set up shop one hour a week this week in science is coming away you better just listen to what we say and if you learn anything from the words that we've said then please just remember it's all in your head this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science this week in science That's purple and yellow, that's purple and yellow Blair, purple and yellow Salamander. With some lovely leaves of various earth tones, jewel tone here and there. But what color is this mantis shrimp? Mantis shrimp, I mean, this is through monitors, it looks pink, could be orange. Looks pretty pinkish orange, I'm with you there. Pinkish orange. There's like a red, it's blue, that's blue. Those are blues and then there's like a purples in there. Yeah purple, lavender, some blue. See who else sent me some pictures. I like the pictures. There's one. Red, I love the orange tardigrade. Orange tardigrade. I love that, I think that's really well done. Yeah, that one was super good. Yeah, I love seeing these. So everyone order calendars and start coloring and tweet at me. Tweet at me, yo. Tweet to pictures. Hey everyone, thank you for the mood boost. Everyone in the chat room, thank you for the mood boost. Yeah, Bleak says, I was cranky until I got science. You know, I was too, I've been cranky all day, I don't know why. It's a barometric pressure. Maybe that's what it is, it's a barometric pressure beating me down. Probably also the fact that I was cold most of the day and I was tired because of course my son has a cold and so he keeps me awake with his thrashing around. His thrashing? He thrashes. He should be a thrasher. Yeah, my son has a cold, maybe I'm fighting as cold, I don't know. Fighting is cold, so I'm a little, a little just kind of low energy but I come and do the show and talk with you guys and talk about this stuff and just lifts me right up. And then, and then when we're done, I'm going to go to bed. Yeah, I'm really excited for bed too. Oh, here's the, is this black and yellow? Green? Is it black or green? It's, it's like a dark forest green and lime green or yellow, yeah. Yellow, I would say yellow or lime green depending on Depending upon. I think if you saw that color without the green around it would just look y'all. Yeah, maybe. Just looks like, I don't know. Looks like the whole big ball of, I don't know. When are you going to get your glasses that allow you to see the world in color? When I have a spare $450. Oh, is that it? Yeah. Oh, that's nothing. Well, it was just my birthday, Justin. Well, you know, the thing is Blair, I guess, I guess it doesn't seem worth it if you, if you didn't, if you haven't seen colors and aren't even curious as to what they might look like. I can see why that would be a lot of money. Glasses, I really want them, but that is, it's a lot of money. Yeah. That is like. It's almost twice the value of the car you're driving. All right. That's the whole point. No, I get it. I'm right there. I'm right there with you. So. If I'm driving a 15 year old car with one headlight, don't tell anyone. They're like, oh, they're mine. If you drive at night, you know, it's not going to be a secret. I know. Yeah, there's an electrical problem. I have to get my car fixed. Oh, dear. Yeah. Yeah. I changed the headlight. It still didn't work. And then I looked at the old headlight and it was fine. Like, oh, no. Yeah. They don't have contact lenses. They're sunglasses is the thing. Yeah, they're sunglasses. So contacts would probably look pretty weird. Just black eyes, completely black. That'd be awesome. Yikes. And it's my yawning. Why are you yawning? Why am I yawning? Why are you yawning? What's going on? Why are you yawning? Are you kidding me? She took a break from yawning just barely long enough to do the show. She's yawning right before the show starts. And as soon as it's over, it starts yawning again. You know, I'd be bad, but you're pretty accurate. I'm not making fun of you, Claire. That does seem to be the pattern. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. As soon as the excitement of being in the midst of a show that is live and happening now, it's back to our normal boring lives. Kiki, is that pile of calendar shrinking still? It is, slowly but surely. It is shrinking. It is good that we do still have some calendars that need to go. I mean, I don't want to have to color them all. Yeah. And Blair can't. So we need your help. No, I'm going to tell everyone. Please support Blair's artwork. I can't say that it'll be accurate. So you guys, I have a question last week. Maybe people in the chat room know the answer to this last, was it last week? No, two weeks ago when Blair was gone and Kai was hanging out during the show, I mentioned that Kai was going to be sleeping on the couch in here. And I don't know, somebody on Facebook, like, they shared our science stream with their friend and then a bunch of people popped in and everybody got really excited about the couch being here. And I'm at a loss as to what the excitement over the couch was and why people and everybody seemed to only want to be watching the show to find out more about the couch. What the heck are you? What? The comments are hilarious. I'm like, what? The couch? Why the couch? And I'm wondering if there's like some kind of pop culture couch meme that I don't know about or something. Okay, good. Just a quick Google year for couch meme. Right. I think I'm good at eventing. And first in the Kiki studio comes complete with a viewing couch. You can have a live audience. Can I have a couch? That's right, I could. You can sit on the couch and only hear me talk. But those are limited tickets. Those are only a few people that can fit on that couch. Whereas in my studio, I have the bleachers set up. You go back eight rows. So there's enough if you can't get into the Kiki show. The Justin show has plenty of seating. We used to provide beverages, but it got a little rowdy. The crowd got a little out of it, which you're still allowed to bring with you, but we don't provide precarious amounts of alcohol to our live audience anymore. No, no, I ask them to bring alcohol to give to me. Yeah, that's where I hadn't figured it out. It was running up quite a bill, actually. That's right. You're like, if you're going to come here, price of entry, ticket and a bottle of booze. Come on. It looks like this can't be right. There is a couch meme, but it's very adult. Okay. What day was that? Gross. What are you looking up? Blair, get off the internet. Stop googling things. Stop googling things on the internet. Justin. Oh my God, that's funny. You almost have teenagers. Okay. So when you're talking to teenagers, they will snicker behind your back or even in front of your face a amount of meme you don't know. This is the new thing, right? And so this is something that happens with my teen volunteers all the time, is they'll make some reference and I'll recognize that it's probably a meme I'm not familiar with, which is why I go to a certain website called Know Your Meme. This is a website for old people. Keeping up with the kids. Yeah, and you can look up what it's about and that's where I am right now. Okay. That's funny. Oh no. Now you're getting meme references in our chat room for people wanting you to google things. It's going down here quickly. Okay, so I normally am all for extended after hours time, so I apologize to the minions for tonight. I'm going to check out early. You're going to check out early? Yeah, I got a big day both behind and ahead of me. Oh, lots of work to do. Yeah. I just put a link in the chat room to the episode with all the couch comments, which crack me up. Are they nefarious? Like what are the comments? No, it's hilarious. It's like, is the couch fire fam? Is, sir, is the couch dryer? Is the couch leather? Is this that couch sale fam? I am in need of couch. Is the couch in nature? The couch auction's starting soon. Ma'am, how different is the couch? Yeah. Is the couch in California? Will the couch change my bread basket? Oh, what the heck? They wanted a couch auction. I don't know. And they're all sorts of, it's really funny. So the kind of gross couch mean situation I'm reading about is about a black leather couch. Okay. Now, Kiki, based on what Blair pre-informed you before you started reading out couch comments, you do realize we could be having the most raunchy conversation right now. Oh, yeah. And we wouldn't know it. And I know, but maybe there are young people enjoying it and snickering at us behind their hands. Yeah, but that's because they're a bunch of armoires. Yep. Sure. All right. You have a big day, Justin. Do we have anything that we need to discuss before you go for the top 11 show next week? No, I did discover there's a thing in the rundown to start putting ideas in there. And I need to start doing that. I did that. And then, yeah, probably Tuesday. I'll just try between the family stuff and the holiday things and what day I'll be able to sit down and start piecing it all together. But yeah. Oh, identity four. Sorry. The audio sounds stutter-borky. It's OK. It's OK. Stutter-borky. Yeah, I like stutter-borky. Merry Christmas, butter. Merry Christmas, minions. I got to go. OK, Justin. Merry Christmas. Have a good one if I do not speak to you before. And Blair, are you heading out right now? I can or I can say whatever you prefer. I don't know that I have much to talk about. OK. You can go. Or to say other than… You can go. I'm going to do a quick Scrooge McDuck into my bed. That's right. Dive right in as if it were a giant pile of money. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Let's throw just Z's. Everyone out there. Yeah, I'm excited. Is that a holiday season right now? I do love the holidays. I know they are a hard time for some people. But I hope that you, you, you, you are having a wonderful holiday season. I hope that no matter what, we can be a part of your holiday season. I hope that you'll be with us next week for the top 11 rundown show for 2017. And thank you for being here today. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We are all so lucky. So lucky to have this right here now. Happy holidays, everyone. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Happy Christmas. And happy solstice. That's right. Next week. I mean, not next week. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. The brain's not even working anymore. It's probably a good idea if I get off the internet. Happy solstice. It's not bad. Like talk about couches a bunch. I don't know. Solstice is my favorite day of the year. Want to know why? Because it's the shortest. It means that it's all getting better from here. The daylight is on an upward swing. We're going to get back to my time of year, which is summer. Nice. Summer, summer, summer time. That's right. Let's go. Let's get it. Tomorrow. Shortest day of the year. Just means it's all going to get better. So everyone, I hope that you are looking forward to celebrating just like I am this Christmas season. We'll see you next Wednesday. Good night, Blair. Good night, everyone. Geeky. Good night, everyone. Good night. Merry Christmas.