 Hello, everyone. Welcome to Mind Pump. In the first half of the show, we talk about the hidden benefits of fitness that you may not even be aware of. Later in the show, we talk about why choosing supplements because they're cheap is not a winning strategy, as well as other topics. In the second half of the show, we coach four live callers on questions such as, is it a good idea to do warm-up sets before getting started with the working sets? And I'm doing five-by-five training, and I'm achy and have imbalances. What should I do? All right, enjoy the show. All right, look, here's the key to long-term fitness success. You have to realize all of the benefits of fitness that have nothing to do with building muscle, burning body fat, or improving physical performance. There are tremendous benefits in the challenge and the struggle in overcoming obstacles, in accepting your body, accepting your limitations. Those are the real benefits, and part of the reason why fitness provides those is because it's hard. So, believe it or not, things that are hard and challenging will actually make you happiest. Do you believe that you have to connect those dots in order for it to be, like, is it mandatory to connect all those dots to make it a lifelong pursuit? A healthy lifelong pursuit, yeah, because if you're just... Otherwise, you're tortured. 100%. If you're obsessed with just the... Because, look, building muscle, burning body fat, health benefits, physical health benefits, the physical performance benefits, those are all real benefits, right? Those are real. But if that's all you ever focus on, oh, my God, what's that going to look like in 10 years, 20 years of you working out when your older or life challenges happen? You're not going to hit PRs. You're not going to be as lean as you can. You're not going to look the same way or you end up... It ends up becoming this really unhealthy... Do you guys remember meeting people in an advanced age that still struggle with that? Let's say they're fit and they're in shape, but they're still connecting it to vanity. Yeah. It's mostly... We usually see a lot of cosmetic work. Oh, yeah. Yeah, lots of added plastic surgery and injections. It's just like whatever they can do to slow down the process of how they aesthetically look versus finding other values that they should follow. I saw it in ex-athletes, models, celebrities. Those are where you see it most. Yeah, people that were put on pedestals earlier on in their age. Their identity became how they looked. Yeah. And that's a hard thing to let go of. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like most of my clients that were like, average Jane or Joe, person know what that nobody knew of. By the time you got to your 50s or 60s and if you were pursuing health and fitness, nobody jumps out to me right away of like somebody who was really strong. You're right. The vast majority of people who do this forever, the reason why they eventually come to that, right? They figured out. Yeah. They're kind of inevitable. Yeah. In fact, you don't even have to be 50 or 60. I think you just have to do it for like 10 years. Like if you do it for 10 years, you end up... You have to come to these realizations that, okay, wow, I'm getting a lot of value because I learn how to overcome challenges. Like here's what I mean by that. Like when you start working out, you suck at stuff. You just do. And you're going to continue to suck at things as you try new things. And as you encounter new challenges with your body or your lifestyle or you lose your job or you have a baby or you get old or whatever, you figure out how to overcome these challenges, how to work, how to use fitness as a way to improve the quality of your life, meaning that your fitness changes and molds itself. And then you start to value that and you go, wow, this is really cool. This is something that just makes life better. There's a lot of acceptance too. Like you may start off with, and most people start off this way, right? With these real cosmetic goals. And you may idolize someone, like you may look at, like for me it was like, I looked at Arnold Schwarzenegger, I want to look like that. I want to be a bodybuilder. At some point I realized like I'm never going to look like Arnold. I just, I don't have his genetics, I don't have his build. I'm not going to do what he did to look the way he did. But then I continue anyway, right? So I accept it and I continue moving on. It's also the, think of how little value exercise would provide you guys, because you guys have been doing this for a long time. How much less value would you get if it was easy? Like if you went out there and there was no challenge, no struggle, no pain, no hard sets, no heavy weight, no burn, no gasping for air, like how little value it would provide you? Well, anything worth doing is difficult. Always, always. It's the, it's like a life, it's like the conundrum that we have to face. You know, Arthur Brooks is an expert on happiness. It's literally part of the formula of happiness. It's also too, it's like in small doses in terms of like what you can handle. So it's like, well, you can obviously do a really difficult workout and try some real new difficult skill in that direction. But I think it's just a great way to just train your mind. When facing like real life, like crazy challenges that come your way because of all the experience that you've just accumulated by like overcoming one little thing, the next thing. And it just gets, you know, you can actually like handle more and more. You get stronger mentally as a result. Well, why do you think evolutionary that we want that? Oh, boy, it's because it forces us to evolve and grow. Because life is going to kick you in the teeth no matter what. So we had to evolve. I mean, that's the prevailing theory. We had to evolve requiring challenge in order to feel purpose, meaning and actually feel happy because if we didn't, then we would die. We would suffer, die, crumble and fold. You know, so life is always hard. It's always hard, right? We think we make certain aspects of life easier. And then we really we have this terrible realization where it's like, well, actually, it's not it's actually still hard. Like what's going on here? Like I have air conditioning, I have easy life. I don't have to just a different hard. It's just it's no matter what. It's like that scene is one of my favorite scenes from The Matrix, which there's a lot of philosophy in the original Matrix. But there's that scene where Morpheus is sitting. They captured him, right? Agent Smith captured him and he's like, they're trying to crack into his brain to figure out the codes to Zion. And Agent Smith says, you know, the first Matrix that Matrix that we created was a perfect utopia. Life was easy and everything was amazing. And he goes, we lost entire crops of humans because your minds couldn't comprehend life being that way. And he has his own theory. But the philosophy behind that is it's totally true. You we have to have struggle and challenge in order to have value. Now, why is this why is this so valuable? Because if you start to understand that value, you're going to want to pursue your workouts. If it's all about how you look, all about muscle and body fat, at some point you'll stop or you'll kill yourself. You'll develop this terrible relationship with exercise and you'll kill yourself. You know, you know, what's interesting about that is that most all religions have a belief that the afterworld or afterlife or heaven is this paradise of like everything being perfect. And if we believe that now that we desire the struggle, we want that to feel to feel good to have purpose all those things. Why would we even want a an afterlife of eternity? That's all good. Yeah. Well, I do. And I think that we don't. I think that we think is misinterpreted. Yes. I think so, too. I think I think that I mean, I think a lot of, you know, I don't think we can comprehend what I think a lot of religious religion has been misinterpreted. It's what we decide that we think is it's supposed to be. And in reality, it's like that's we can't even truly fathom it. So what is wasting your time thinking that you know what it's going to be like is kind of ridiculous. It's like that saying with when you raise your kids like you can either change the world for your kids or you can make your kids strong for the world. Like, which ones, which one are you going to succeed at? Or more likely to succeed at exactly? I mean, I've been kind of milling this over a lot because I know that you kind of get like two different types of mentalities where one is very drawn to safety and one's, you know, a little more risk adventurous and like we'll kind of go in that direction. But honestly, like safety is an illusion. It's it's something that we we seek it a lot. But at the end of the day, like a meteor could blow us up. And it's it's about being fit and feeling like you're able to withstand challenges and be strong in that direction. But honestly, like we could do whatever we want to feel safe, but it's a feeling. Yes, it's not real. I mean, I'm going to I'm going to add to that because someone may be, you know, maybe say, well, you should wear a seatbelt. Like you shouldn't speed. That's not what Justin is talking about. That's not I'm saying. Yeah, I'll give you an example of the illusion. You could say to yourself, working out, that takes a lot of time. It's hard. You know, I got to pay for a gym membership, so it costs money. So, you know, that makes life harder. Is it or is it harder to be unfit, unhealthy and develop chronic disease? Is it more expensive to pay for a gym membership and to buy, let's say food that is really healthy or supplements that are really sourced really well, for example, is that more expensive or is it more expensive to pay for heart disease, heart attack, cancer? Right. So so it is a total illusion. It's it's complete illusion. The safety illusion, the ease of illusion, like, oh, life is easier because I watch TV, I'm relaxed. I don't have responsibilities. Is it really though? Well, every time we try to solve problems like that and make our life easier, we also create problems. And it's just sort of like that double edged sword that it just it it seems like always our pursuit to make things easier and have ease towards work that's in front of us. But really, the work is that's part of the journey. That's what you need to experience. Yeah, that's what you think that. So I what I find we talked about the software. We didn't talk about this on the podcast, but because of what you're talking about right now, don't you find that interesting that we had we have this kind of attack on the privileged as if the privileged is a better place to be. I mean, that's assuming a lot, right? That, oh, you have a head start. Oh, you have this opportunity. You're making an assumption that they're privileged. Right, because that's what I'm saying. You're you're assuming that having all the opportunities, having all the money, having the big house, having all the private, that's a technically a better life. It's it's assuming a lot. And you know, I thought about this a lot because I went through a phase in my life where I definitely thought of myself as a victim, right? I definitely felt sorry for myself. And then as I got older and I saw the growth and everything that happened from going through those things in my life. I look back now and I go, if I was asked, hey, if you were brought up in a home like X, Y and Z, and there was a time when I used to think, oh man, like if I had the head start that my buddy had, or if I had the parents that my buddy had, I'd be here, here and here. And I and I had that attitude for a portion of my life. And now I look back and I go, I wouldn't want that. I wouldn't want that position because I recognize that all those things that I had to go through built the character that I have today. And I like that character. And I don't want, I wouldn't want it any other way. And so I actually now view the hardships and challenges in my life or the setbacks or the less privileged part of my life as being more privileged. Yeah. Well, it's judging. I mean, just to even say that and I get, yes, you could objectively be like, well, it's easier if this and it's harder if that. And I know there's extremes where that makes a lot of sense, but that's a very arrogant assumption. Oftentimes it is because you could look at somebody and be like, wow, they drive a nice car. They make a lot of money and not know they're on two different antidepressants that they have tons of anxiety that they're struggling with, you know, maybe mental illness. I feel like we have such a great, I feel like we have such a great example of this when we look at celebrities. I mean, when you look at alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, anti-depression, I mean, it runs rapid in the most wealthy, most privileged people. So the idea that we don't even have good examples of that to me is silly, is it's like you and we all, and then we all idolize those people, ironically. I know, I know, it's wild. It is crazy. But, you know, again, bringing it back to the pursuit of fitness, which I've said before is this great vehicle for personal growth. If, and I used to do this with my clients in the later, the second half of my career, is I would point out all these other values, just like with nutrition. It's like, it's like with food, like we all understand that there's a, there's a hedonistic palatability that comes with certain foods. And that is a value. Oh my God, this tastes so good, right? Cheetos, ah, they're so pleasurable. But there's so many other values to food. And if you don't acknowledge and realize all those values, the only thing you'll ever chase is palatability, which we know what that leads to, right? If the only thing you ever chase with fitness is getting lean, getting muscular, athletic performance, looking good, you're going to miss out on 95% of the other tremendous values. And it will lead you down a terrible dark path. You're going to take this incredible tool, which all tools are like this, all valuable tools in life are double edged. Everything that's valuable in life can either make you or break you. That's what makes it so powerful. And if you don't understand all of the other values, like, wow, I overcame that challenge. Wow, I'm able to move about it better. Oh my God, I wake up in the morning now and actually have structure to my day because I exercise. Wow, this is me caring for myself. Whereas before I really didn't do that and now I am, right? Wow, that was so hard for me and it's still hard for me, but my relationship with hard is different now. Now I don't, I don't cringe and I'm not fearful of the burn of the pain. Now it's like I embrace it. And that's a huge, you know, piece of growth. Once you understand all of the value of exercise, wow, it becomes this incredible tool. But if you don't and you only value how it makes you look, you're going to be screwed. I promise you either you won't stick to it or you're going to hurt yourself or cure yourself or find yourself in a very dark place. Yeah, you really learn how to reframe a lot of these like hardships and challenges and look at it as an opportunity to learn to grow, to get to the next level. It's the same kind of way I look at the feeling of being excited versus being anxious. You know, you could either have that kind of negative connotation towards it or look at it as a positive and really like lean into it. Yeah. I remember the first time and I say first time because this happened several times. I know you guys have too, because we've talked about this before. The first time I had a new client. This always happened with somebody who'd never experienced like who really never exercised or never played sports. So it was like total deconditioned average, you know, person. Typically they'll hire me in their 40s because they're like, oh God, I got it healthy and fit. And then they'll hire me and we'll do an exercise and they've never felt what like muscular, like good muscular pain feels like they perceive it as pain. And I remember the first time this happened to me and it's happened before. I had a lady doing tricep press downs. And I don't remember what rep she got. She let go of the bar and the weight crash. You hurt my triceps. And I'm like, what's matter? She's like, oh my God, I think I hurt myself. And I'm like, explain to me what you feel and she's telling me and I'm testing her and I'm moving around. I'm like, oh, that's just a, that's just a muscle burn burn. And I remember the first time that happened when she left. I like sat, had a little break and I sat there thinking about it. I'm like, does she feel more pain from a tricep press down than I do? And I said, no, I said, first of all, she was nowhere near failure. I can push myself to failure and beyond. I said, the difference is my relationship to the pain that I feel the same pain she does. Actually, I feel more pain than she does. My muscles are bigger. I'm pushing myself harder. I can go, you know, much further. But my relationship to it is different. So I'm not so scared of it that I dropped the bar as I go through it. That is a tremendous value that you get from exercise. I used to hear that from women, especially when they'd say that they felt more confident because they got under a heavy bar and struggled through lifting something heavy. And then every day life, they're like, man, I feel so confident. I feel so much more confident with just, you know, moving around. Just take it all on. Totally. Absolutely. So anyway, important lesson that I think all of us should learn. All right, everybody, here's a giveaway for today's episode. Maps and Ebola, the most popular maps workout program. You can get it for free, but you have to win the contest. Here's how you enter. Leave a comment below. The first 24 hours that we drop this episode, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. Do all those things. If we like your comment, we'll notify you in the comment section and you'll get free access to maps and Ebola. Also, these are the final hours for the Cyber Monday sale. Check this out. Every single maps workout program and every single bundle of maps programs 60% off across the board. That means if they're discounted, you get an additional 60% off. It's the biggest sale by far of the year. You've got to take advantage of this if you want to follow one of our programs. So if this is something you want to do, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com, use the code Cyber Monday. You can use it multiple times and get 60% off anything, any of our programs, any of our program bundles. Again, mapsfitnessproducts.com and the code is Cyber Monday. All right, here comes the show. Hey, I want to talk about, we're supposed to mention Paleo Valley today, the protein, the bone broth chocolate. Oh my God. I'm getting tagged all over the place. Hold you. Yeah. Every single year we started, dude. It is the best tasting protein. I've never had it before. I'm intentionally not going to have some now. You're such a rebel. Yeah, it's too popular now. There's being chased. You want to be cool. Yeah, I don't want to, it's that cool for me to do it now. People are going nuts. Yeah, I know. Nuts. I mean, I see it all over people. They're totally loving it and I was trying to get some more. You're such a good salesman, dude. No, it's real. A good guy, you know what I'm saying. It's real, dude. I'm not making that up right now. Well, Doug Cosine for you. So I trust him for sure. So I actually haven't been having to do protein powder lately. I've been pretty consistent with getting, but I mean, I was back to, although today I didn't, I'm saying that. Are you bringing your food? Yeah, I'm back to bring. Whenever I, if I prepare, I'm good. It's when I'm not prepared, when the shakes and the bars and the things like that, I feel like become necessary is when I'm not prepared. But if I'm prepared, I've got my meals made. You know why? It's because food is so accessible and easy that when you're not prepared, it's super easy for you to just, I'll just get this. Yeah, I'll order that. I'll get this. Yeah, yeah, no, totally. And protein is hard to come by. Because no, even what, and I brought this up not that long ago, even when you order out, what we would consider a protein meal, restaurants don't serve you. Well, a guy your size, you know, you're probably looking for what? 50 grams of protein for him. Yeah, what you're talking about, 10 to 12 ounces of a meat. And you'll get one third of that. Yeah, you get four ounces. It's kind of the standard serving size for eating out for protein. And that's eating something that you would look at and go, oh, this is a protein, which is chicken, rice, bowl, and vegetable. Like, oh, that's a healthy, good choice. But it's you're sitting on four ounces of meat. Like I had to eat nine of those for me to hit my protein. Was it you that pointed out at Chipotle? Yes. You don't tell them. You tell them after they give the scoop. Yeah, you wait. The first scoop. You know, that's funny. I've been talking about that for a long time. I've actually seen all kinds of stuff on Instagram viral about that. Yeah, no, I've totally. In fact, I think I actually watched a Alex Hormozzi talk about it in a video not that long ago where he was telling people that's a strategy. I've been saying that for a long time. Like I remember going there, I'm like, wait a second, you tell them double meat first and they give you like little tiny portions. You do them after they do it. You wait. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait real quick. Yes, for me. I mean, that would be like the same hack for like five guys. You order another fry after they give you the first one because they always do like a, you know, five guys give you like a small fry and then they fill the whole bag up. You order your fry and then you go back, okay, get another fry and then you get like double the amount versus if you were to get two small fries, it would end up being the same as if you. Oh, because you get too bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a fry hack. But I mean, I've never ran into a situation where I know I've never had, I've never needed more fries from five guys. They provide for you all those fries. Right here, I cannot stop eating the standard. French fries or potato chips. I can't stop eating. That is your, that's your kryptonite. Bro, I do see chips. I'll eat it. I'll eat them until I hate my, like beyond hate myself. Like I'll just keep going. Justin's cheese, your fries or chips. I'm ice cream for sure. Ice cream or cake. Yeah, that one. I blame you for introducing me to that cheese shop in Monterey. I'm like ordering it online now. Oh, are you serious? Yeah, bro, I get like cheese wheels. Hey, at least you're showing up. I swear to God. Oh, yeah, but at least you're getting like, you know, like legit. I mean, they have every, in that place, cool. Wait a minute. They'll deliver it to your house? Yeah. Will they deliver it over here or do I have to be in Santa Cruz? Yeah, they deliver it here. Really? Yeah, yeah. So I'm a huge, I love. Well, it's cool that I loved about that place. Shout out to that. It's a cheat. I think it's called the cheese shop, right? In Carmel. And they have every cheese in the entire world and then they have somebody behind there. What's a, what's a Somalia? That's what you call the wine. Oh yeah, the wine. Yeah. But they're a cheese one. Well, they, yeah, they actually, The Chomale. They show you how to pair, pair all these cheeses from all over the world with like the, the appropriate wine to go with it. If you've got the time, yeah, you definitely want to hang out there because they'll, they'll take you through that like pairing with the wines or they'll just let you try like basically any of the cheeses you want. Like they'll give you a little piece and so I'm just there for the entire hour. Like, whoo. And then you, I'll think about it. That is part of the, the part of the reason why we moved out there was because of this experience. And if you get a chance, and I've actually had several people DM me and I've pointed them in this direction, like one of the most epic weekends that Katrina and I would create for ourselves all the time would be going to the sanctuary, which is one of the best places in California to stay on, like stay on the beach. You've all stayed there. It's beautiful. You go down to Carmel, which is 15 minutes up the road. You go to the cheese shop. You get yourself. Oh, there's like just a lot of good restaurants down there. Well, no, what this is what, this is the hack for us is to do that. Go get the cheese. And bring it back. Bring it back and wash the sunset from your room. It is like. Yeah, we did that after you said that. I mean, that's what made us live out. I mean, we were doing that so often because it was such an incredible night or weekend that we'd stay there. And we like, we have to, we're coming out here so much. Like, why don't we just move out here? But I love that. It's such a cool like date or experience. You know, real cheese connoisseurs like the stronger the cheese, the better. I'm assuming you're that way, Justin. So you like cheddar, but you like extra sharp. Yeah, extra sharp. Yeah, same here. Yeah, all the way. Even like it's funny because, you know, my kids like I just had them try blue cheese and I'm like, you know, I just ate a bunch of mold. You know, but dude, I would have like been grossed out at that when I was a kid. But like, I remember the first introduction to it was on a steak that I had, I think in college. And then that just like blew my mind. Changed your life. I was like, okay, I'm going like all in on crazy cheese. I told you about the famous cheese from Sardinia, right? That's got actual like. Yeah, that's gross. Or maggots in it, right? I mean, you'll eat the maggots. I don't get Limburger and all of the real stinky stuff. Like, you know. I've never tried Limburger. Yeah, I've used it for pranks. I haven't actually. Now, have you, since you've been doing this, have you been introduced to one as anything new that like you've never seen or heard of? And then you had, you're like, damn, this is, have you found anything like that yet? Well, I mean, I'm stuck right now on Mimolette because it's like, it has these like salt crystals in it. And it's a real hard cheese. Oh, I love hard cheese. Have you tried that, Doug? Yeah, it's so good. I haven't. I'm going to though. I love hard cheese stuff. It's the best cheese I've ever had. Now, is this the kind of cheese that you grate on stuff or you're supposed to eat it? You just have to slice like, it's kind of hard to slice, but yeah. Doug's running it down. I am. Yeah. Now, do you like pecorino and like the really hard? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's good stuff. I like that. Yeah, but some of those like, yeah, you do have to kind of grate them to be able to get access. Doug, what's the name of the restaurant that you just introduced us to that you took Mike and Justin, all of us to? Teleferik. Teleferik. Or Teleferik. I'm not sure the pronunciation. In Los Gatos. Do they have more than one or is that the only one? They do. They have, well, they have one in Barcelona. They have one. Walnut Creek? Walnut Creek. It's Barcelona. Okay, well. Is that how you say it? It's not Barcelona? You're supposed to say Barcelona. No, it's the Spanish pronunciation style is tempting. Shots fired. I was attempting Barcelona. There's nothing more awkward than somebody like just throw it like a just one word accent. Yeah. Everything else is normal. And they're like, but then they just go back to like talking normal. This is just stop. Yeah. I'm very torn about that with like Japanese, like for example, kombucha, right? Yeah. I try to throw a Japanese pronunciation on kombucha. That sounds pretentious. That sounds pretentious, right? You got dinner with your girl, you know? You're like, I really enjoy this nice drink. Kombucha. Whoa, where'd that come from? Or karaoke, right? Karaoke. Karaoke. Oh, I like that. I'm going to use that. No, you're not. No, I'm not. I remember it. Hey, you've got to go try that restaurant. I will. Yeah, you guys will like that for sure. So dude, I got to tell you guys about some fuckery going on with the FDA right now. You know the FDA, that wonderful regulatory agency that's totally not corrupted? Never. Somebody, okay. Mess with us. I wish we had that. Somebody showed me like a... Dude, they're so annoying. How many people were connected to that? It's all big pharma. It's all, it's a joke. So check out what they're doing. So they started this. The first time I heard of this was during COVID. So during the whole COVID, you know, debacle or whatever, there's a supplement called NAC, Enacital Cysteine, which by the way has been sold as a supplement for like two decades. Okay. And what it does is you take it and it raises glutathione levels in the liver. So it's a great antioxidant, antioxidant levels in the blood. Well, they found in studies that NAC may be an actual great supplement to take when you have respiratory illness like COVID because it prevents severe issues in the lungs. Okay. So they showed this in studies. Well, lo and behold, FDA comes out and says, hey, supplement company, stop selling NAC. We're going to regulate it because there's this weird like provision in U.S. law that says, ready for this, it bars ingredients from being marketed as supplements if they were ever first approved or even investigated as drugs. In other words, if a pharmaceutical company puts out a paper that says, hey, vitamin C, you know, that may be something that could treat the common cold. And then they're like, eh, we're not going after it. The FDA could go back and say, hey, 30 years ago, Pfizer said this and now we need to regulate vitamin C. What? So they tried to do this with NAC. They're trying to do with NMN. Eliminate all competition. So NMN, it raises NAD levels in the blood. Well, now, because there was some paper that was written and it wasn't even NMN. It was like this, like a derivative of it or something like that was investigated as a pharmaceutical drug at first. Now the FDA is coming out and saying, oh, you know what we need to do? We need to regulate this. So basically based off of this provision, any supplement that's ever been mentioned by a pharmaceutical company, especially if it's got any efficacious applications because they're not going to regulate shit that doesn't work, right? As soon as it looks like it's starting to work on do something, they're going to jump on it and they'll say it needs to be regulated. Why? Because the FDA, sure they have lots of functions, but one of their functions is to protect their friends in the big pharma companies because you can't have supplement companies selling a product if it's lucrative to do so. It's such incredible bullshit. It's crazy to me that we're like one of the only countries that even allows medicine to be advertised and marketed like that. That's not funny. It's ridiculous. I mean, what's so crazy about it is that we're one of the only countries that do it and then that's like 80% of all. Of all marketing. Yeah. I mean, that's like huge difference. It'd be like one thing of like, oh, we kind of allow a little bit of this or we allow certain drugs to be marketed or talked about. It's like, no, everything's fair game and most of all of our advertising money is spent in that direction in the entire country. So that's fucking wild. So I want to go, I mean, I'll go a step further, right? So, and I understand why the FDA exists. So I get why they exist. I think that it could be totally, I think they could do a much better job and it could save us a lot of money in terms of how much we spend going through them. But a lot of the people that work in the FDA used to work in big pharma. Either they were executives or just people. I've seen somebody do a post that shows all the, how they're kind of interesting, how like some of the, find that FDA then all of a sudden gets hired or vice versa. Yes. Yeah. And it's just interchangeable. Yes. So what that means, it's like a political game. Well, it doesn't guarantee that they're shenanigans, but it does. So come on. It potentially, there could be lots of conflicts of interest. And so what'll happen is they see a supplement that's efficacious like, oh, shit, this is really treating osteoarthritis. And then they can go back and they could try and find some obscure bullshit and then they could say, oh, sorry guys, that actually belongs to this company or that company. Did you hear what the guy said on all in about the FTX guy that was doing all the regulating on the, for FTX, like 10 years before was doing like some shady gambling stuff? I know. I forgot what that was. I sort of, I can't remember what he, but he was the one who was like putting all the, helping them with all the regulation structure of the business for FTX. Meanwhile, 10 years ago, he had got caught up in some like crazy scandal. So my big issue with this is- How's that not like a massive red flag? Oh, it totally is. Yeah. So now here's the big issue. Then you get people who say, well, the supplement industry needs to be regulated by the FDA because there's lots of supplements out there that lie, they put, you know, they don't put what they say is in the label in the actual bottle or they have other stuff in there. This is all true. There's lots of companies that do this. But what you need to consider is, is it better than the alternative? Because if the FDA were to regulate supplements, first off, you wouldn't have 90% of supplements that are out there, because it would be way too expensive to even pursue putting them out there. So your choices would go way down. Then you'd have even more control over an industry that tends to protect these big pharma companies. So you don't want that. Now, again, people always say, well, what about supplements? There's lots of these companies, and there are tons of companies that are shitty that are what, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're not regulated. There's, there are regulations. There's consumer regulation. The supplement doesn't- Which by the way, that's extremely powerful in today's society. You do something wrong. Or you cheat somebody. On the internet today? It moves fast. I mean, you got, within minutes, it seems like you've, which that was never like that in history. No, so there's that. But then there's also this. There's all these third-party regulatory agencies, because there is a market for regulation where they could go to this company that has nothing to do with this company. It has nothing to do with- So if I'm, you know, a supplement company A, I go to this third-party company. I say, test us for glyphosates, test us for the fact that are, we have what we say we have in there. Test us for impurities. And these are third-party companies, and they'll do it. And the third-party company's interest is in being accurate. Do you think that should be, do you think that that should be how almost all markets are ran is instead of having any regulation whatsoever, you just have companies that figure out them going out of their way to pay for third-party- It's a market advantage for them to do that. That's right. I- And then don't you think that- I think many markets- The consumer would, I'm trying to get one that would, that's why I asked you that. That's why I asked you that. Many markets, I haven't heard a compelling argument for regulating environmental stuff, just because sometimes the timeline on that could go out 100, 200 years. But for like products, I definitely think so. I think it puts it in the hands of the consumer. These third-party companies exist. And so here's the deal. If the FDA, if something slips through the regulation or they don't protect consumers, they get more money. Yeah. It becomes an incentive to get more. So the FDA says, Oh my God, these drugs came out that actually turned out to cause heart attacks. You know why? Because we're not funded enough. We need more money and they'll get more money. Now, if a third-party regulates a supplement company and then it turns out the third-party actually messed up, do they get more money or do they go out of business? Yeah. So the incentive- There's a punishment there. The incentive for the third-party regulatory agencies is to be accurate and honest because if they mess up once, they're done. Nobody trusts them anymore. Right. Now, this does put the responsibility in the consumer. For example, sometimes we get criticisms when we promote a supplement company. For example, we just co-branded a kind of pre-workout energy supplement. I was just wondering if you were going to say something about it. I knew, you know what's so, shame on the audience, right? To come after you or to make comments about peak performance, the supplement that you just, it's like calling your baby ugly, bro. Yeah. What do you guys, like seriously, and you did not think, you didn't think Sal was going to say something? Like, come on. I knew that was coming. Well, no, so we're getting a lot of good reviews, but then there's people who are like, people are like, oh my God, it's so expensive. Well, first off, since day one, our priorities were never to be the cheapest. We never work with, if we look at a company- We never said that. We never look and say, are they the cheapest or whatever. We look at quality. Are there lots of third-party testing? Do we like the owners? Do we like their direction? Like a lot of stuff. We don't care. Like, if I'm going to promote a supplement that you're going to take on a regular basis, it's got to be amazing. And if it's expensive, then don't take it. Well, that's what I'm saying. Our message has always been that if it's expensive, we've always pushed whole natural foods as the way to go. And if you want to save the most amount of money, then do that. Right. So peak power, they make sure that it's organic. So that's tested. Then they make sure it's glyphosate, residue-free. That's tested. There's 30-party tested that tells you that what's in the bag is actually in the bag. That costs money too. So what you're paying for is a supplement that actually has what it says it has. It's cleaning just the stems. It's the actual fruiting body. You could go find something that says it's similar, that costs you half as much. OK, you can roll the dice if you want to. Or you could pay. So that's the whole point that I'm trying to make, that it goes on. It's on the consumer. And they exist. These regulations do exist out there in the supplement industry. You don't want these blanket FDA. Believe me, it'll be much worse if you went in that direction. What do you think people's desired outcome is making comments like that? I think that the supplement industry has conditioned people to value price above all else. They say things like, we have the same thing, but we're cheaper. And we're doing this like race to the bottom. And people don't. I think that's in all markets, no. In a lot of markets. But the supplement industry's done that like a ton. And people don't consider, you know, because you don't know. You're taking a supplement. OK, fine. It's got something there you don't want. You might not notice for 10, 15, 20 years. And then you may never actually connect it to the supplement you're taking or the placebo effect. Yeah, you know, it's funny that I was talking to Mike Matthews about this and you know what like a common hustle is would be that some of these supplement companies will do is they will give a competitive product like that for at cost or at a loss in order to drive you into their network to sell you some bullshit. That's like margins are crazy. I mean, that's such that's a hustle is to get somebody. It's I mean, when you think about it smart. I mean, it's a smart strategy for making money, but it's like it's unfortunate because you as a consumer, it's so hard to figure out like if I'm getting duped or if I'm getting a great product, does this really work? It's like, yeah, totally 100 percent. So, you know, for me personally, if I'm going to take something, it's going to be it's going to be good. Otherwise, I'm going to stick to whole natural foods. And also, what are they comparing it to? You know, in terms of the like, so it will be something that's a lot cheaper. But just go back and read those reports of all those companies that had like fillers in there that had like heavy metal toxins in there. Like just look like all the stuff is out there in terms of like the cheaper options. It's there. The protein powders that had the highest heavy metal content when they did that study were organic vegan protein powders. So you're a consumer like, oh, it's organic. It's vegan. It's good for me. But they're not going out of their way to test for heavy metals. And you were literally consuming potentially toxic amounts of heavy metals and not even knowing just that, you know, again, you're the consumer. It's your responsibility. And that's the way it should be. It's your responsibility. Nobody else anyway. Stuff cracks me up. I want to hear who had the dad hack. Is that you? Oh, that was me. Oh, dude. I got so we've talked about this before. Jessica taught me this. And I wish I knew this as a younger dad. So, you know, I'll paint the scenario. Right. So I'm trying to do dishes and Aurelius. He wants to play with me. And so I'm trying to keep them occupied. While I'm doing dishes real fast so I could stop and then go play with him instead. And this is just, you know, I told my cousins who are new dads this and I showed them a video. So I have a video of me washing dishes with Aurelius. Like instead of doing your chores super fast, you can go play with your kid while your kid is waiting for you and being crabby or whatever. Make the chore the game and have fun. And so that's what we do with everything. Washing clothes, dishes, sweeping. It's just, it's a blast. So Aurelius, you know, he does what he can. He's only two. So he'll hand me something or I'll give him soap and he'll, but it becomes the game. I'm so curious how that's going to, like, especially someone like you who has, you know, you have two kids that are much older and you didn't do some of these things. Now you're doing it. And so will you be able to see, be able to compare and contrast the behaviors and stuff? Because we do that with Max too. And I always wonder, like, you know, are we setting him up really good for when we do have chores and things to take care of that? Like it's just been built into him since day one. And so he just accepts it or will I still get pushed back or will it not make a difference? Like I'm really curious. Obviously, I know in the now that it's already a hack, right? It's already a hack that, like you said, like I'm rushing to do these dishes done and so my son can play or he's distracting me or with that. Why not just integrate him into the process and have fun with it and do that way? Like that's a, that's a no brainer. But I even wonder, like, okay, let's take that a step further. Like building that, that routine. And because he's Max's dishes, he's done laundry. He does the, he does the washing the car with me, picking up the dog poop, like all of that's been that. So if, you know, well, can I carry this on to where when he's a teenage boy, he's just like, he's just known to keep doing all that stuff. I'm really curious to see if that's gonna happen. I think so. I also think it makes them feel like they're contributing. That's what it means. Like it's just, this is what we do. Yes. You know what I'm saying? It's not, it's not a chore per se. It's like we are, we all help to keep the house in order and clean. And this is just what we all do. And like, will he just accept it? That's, I mean, that's kind of like what I've been trying to do the most is just like, this is just what we do on a daily basis. Cause like the whole chore thing to me, it just seems like now you're, you're putting all this like negative energy, like in that you have like anytime, I don't know, I've been looking back, I've grown up like a lot of things like I had to do were, were promoted by force. You know, and I'm like, how can I, how can I do this in a different way? Or it's not like, I'm just imposing this in my, what I want like on my kids versus like, you know, pulling them in and selling it a little bit better. So, so along these lines, I have a question for you. I want to try and be better at this. You know, every once in a while when I do the ask me question or what like that. Sometimes people ask like really good questions that I want to propose to you guys. I answer it, but I want to hear what you guys think. And someone asked, who is the strictest father of the four of us? Oh, how would you, how would you order the four of us? I know how I ordered us. I'm curious to how you guys would order us. Oh man. Doug, you have an answer for it right away? I'm probably the most lenient. So I had you, I had you last. Yeah, I'd say, well, I don't know. Sal, are you the most strict? I'll say the order I had. Yeah. Justin. Oh, really? Sal, me, you. Yeah. You know what though? That's a tough one because we're all consistent. Well, that's what makes it fun. Yeah, no, but we're all consistent. You know what I mean? So, okay, lenient, strict, but we're all, whatever we do, we're consistent. It's not like you say to Max. Sure. This is, I think, and I think that's why it was fun and question because I don't think what they're proposing there is, if one is better than the other one, whatever. It's like, who's style is more likely. I agree, we're all very consistent with the way we father, right? And we're all pretty close though. But I think Justin's the most stern and strictest. I think Sal is next. And for different reasons the way you guys do it. Yeah, different. Yeah, like Justin's more hard, straight line and conservative about his values and views and he's going to stick to his guns and like he's very consistent with that. You are like, to me, very like a protective father and always thinking like that and it's like, I'm looking for out for you. And that's the way you deliver that message. I kind of feel like maybe I'm a balance of the two of you guys a little bit that way. And then Doug, I feel like is probably the most easy going. I would say too, like just in terms of words and like just the way that you already have like natural gift of like sell, selling. And so for me, it's like very cut and dry. You know, and so that's why it might come off like that. Sure. Because I'm just like, I'm just very economical with the way that I'm like trying to address issues. No, you're actually a great way to explain it. You know, I don't need to sell this. I'm your dad. I'm just exactly right. I'm not going to sit here and like fluff up. That's a great way to compare the three of us is that you, it is that way. Sal and I are selling the idea. Yes, dude. You're painting the vision always. You guys can't help it. But it's the illusion of choice. Yeah, yeah. Here's why this is a good idea. Yeah, yeah. We're just like, you don't have a choice. This is the way. Well, yeah. I'm dad. But then our kids are like, well, I don't want to do it still. Well, actually, I still have to do it. I'm just telling you why I don't give a shit how that is. I mean, would you guys order it that way? I mean, are we, I think you're probably accurate. That's pretty close. Yeah. You know, it's funny is that dad, that the whole thing with Doug and the dad thing, he was like that with us without us realizing it when we started the show. Totally. Very much so. Let us do our stupid shit. And that's more zen about letting us figure it out. That's wisdom right there. He is the oldest dad. So yeah, no, he's for sure the most patient, I think when it comes to stuff like that. Yeah, but I mean, I've definitely been checking my own self with a lot of that because that was like some of that effect of me, I could tell, like, because of just like everything I wanted to do, there was always like, it was implemented on me through force. And I just, I'm trying to like get better about like finding another way to present it. And so that's like something I'm challenging myself to do. You know what Jessica does really well, which I don't know if it's going to work because your kids are a little older now. So they're, I don't know if you could do this now, if it'll work anymore, but she's really good at giving two options and both options are desirable for her. So she'll say, you know, she'll say to Aurelius, hey, do you want to brush your teeth now? Or do you want to brush your teeth after we play with your blocks? And then he'll, he'll pick. And it's just because what it does, it gives your kid like a feeling. It empowers them, but at the same time too, you're controlling it. Totally, totally. She's really good at that. Like really, really good at that. Whereas, you know, I tried it a couple of times. I remember my oldest son and he's sharp. He was really sharp at a young age. I remember he did it to me. I think he was three. And he comes up to me and he goes, but can I have one popsicle or two popsicles? I'm like, huh? Like, did you just use my trick on me? No popsicles. It's so funny. Anyway, I got something cool to bring up. I got went down a rabbit hole yesterday on some videos on social media. So Adam, you're familiar with MKUltra, right? Yeah, you guys have talked about it before on the show. Have you heard of Operation Mockingbird? Mockingbird? I have both of them, but you have to remind me which one is which. So MKUltra. I know they were like originally government conspiracies that we now know, or no longer. It's not a conspiracy. This is what happened. They actually did it. MKUltra were experiments using psychedelic drugs. This is during the Cold War, to see if we could use psychedelic drugs to, as part of a process of brainwashing. Programming. Programming, conditioning. So like, could we take somebody and turn them into an assassin without them knowing, or get them to obey orders with a trigger word or whatever through this? And we did some pretty crazy tests. This is the stuff that they revealed to us. And then Mockingbird was the CIA trying to put operatives into media and Hollywood because they recognized it as being a subliminal messages and all kinds of stuff. Yeah, so I went down this rabbit hole. Do you know how many videos there are of celebrities like acting hella weird, like freezing? All of a sudden, or somebody says a word and all of a sudden they go, and they like for 30 seconds, those frees like they're a robot or they'll act super strange. Have you seen some of those videos? Yeah, I've watched it. There's a few montages out there where you're going to see like your Katy Perry's, you're going to see your Al Roker's, you're going to see all these people that like all of a sudden, like somebody will say something, they'll just freeze. Like not breathe or anything. It seems like an eternity. It's like 17 seconds or like 30 seconds but they literally like, they don't even blink. They're just like frozen. Dude, it's so weird. What is that called though where you, there's so many examples or something that's really easy to, like it's like when people predict when the world's going to come to an end and they have like all these great like, because this was said here and then this happened. It's just weird because I- There's a name, there's a term for that. Isn't there where we- Confirmation bias? No, no, it's more elaborate than that. That's like, that's basic. Like this is like, you can cherry pick all this data because there's so much of it. That it's odd- You're making connections that you aren't necessarily connections. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, man. There's a term for it. There was one with Draymond when you're boy. Yeah, yeah. And he literally, it looked like someone froze the screen for a while. He just sat there weird. I've never seen someone do that in real life. That's weird. I mean, well to that point too, because it's, we see this from celebrities and pro athletes where they have all the eyes on them. The pressure is like quite more substantial in your everyday average person. And then when they're put on the spot, I can see how maybe like their brain might short-circuit a bit like when they're delivering some kind of speech. But I mean, sometimes though, you're just like, that's weird. Like it's almost like they're about to have a seizure with some of these videos where they just like get like these kind of ticks and weird things happen with their eye twitching. And it's just like, I don't know, do you know how to explain it every time? Like it's weird. Well, plus I'm convinced that Draymond's one of the good ones. So I can't be, so that's why I can't be true. Well, that's why they, it's because they did a good job. They did a good job, bro. You believe? Yeah, I don't know. It's pretty funny. Like that was like back in the day when I used to go down all these like conspiracy holes and the MK Ultra was a fascinating one because there's some truth to it. But then, you know, you can get some people that take that information and then they apply it to so many other things. Like, oh, like all of these like major celebrities go through some kind of like ritual thing with some secret society and then they come back and then they're just, I mean, how much, because that's, that's a lot of people have speculated on that. I mean, Kanye came out and alluded to it just not that long, even though we know how crazy he is. What, where do you guys stand on that? Like, do you believe there is this, this underground cult that gets together and, you know, and dark black capes and they, you know, slice each other's fingers and then they all chant in the underground and tell everybody how we're all going to be billionaires and take care of each other. You think that hasn't happened. I believe it. Yeah, that's fair. I don't know about it going as far as you're saying. Yeah, like, I think there's- That's the part, so okay. I don't- Is over exaggerated? That's what I think. I think, I don't think it looks like Skull's the movie. I don't think it's gone to that level. But I do think that, I mean, look it. We see, and an example that we see this that is more obvious and accepted is internet marketing. Internet marketers that are extremely successful figured out a long time ago, hey, even though we have competing products, there's so many people in the world for all of us to reach that we can all get rich. So let's cross- They create syndicates. Yeah, they create syndicates and they all take care of each other. So I do believe that it looks something like that in the music world. It's an underground network. Well, let me, let me, okay. So I'll give you two examples. And I think it's been painted as this crazy dark. I'll give you, I'll give you two examples of why I think that there's some of the stuff, some of the stuff going on. Who was that producer that finally it came out that he was sexually abusing all these actresses and was it Harvey Weinstein? Weinstein? That's happened for decades. Yeah. And he got, and everybody covered up for him. Everybody kept coming. And there was one actress or musician that said, hey, watch out for this guy. Don't, you know, whatever in interviews. And then all of a sudden her career took a tumble. But he was seen with Oprah and all these wonder, all these people, he was such a great guy. This shit was happening forever. Why did they allow it to happen? Because he held the keys to fame and success. So here's the second part. You have a bunch of people when you're talking about celebrities who tend to be more on the narcissistic, tend to be more arrogant and are also willing to sell their souls for what they worship, which is fame and fortune. So it's not hard to imagine at some point they get to a level where they get these wealthy executives who are like, hey, here's the deal. You just signed an NDA. So everything I say right now is, and here's the deal. I think it's less of the selling your soul and it's more like internet marketing syndicates. I think it's more like that. It's like, hey, you're in the good old boys' club now. Let us show you how things work around here. When news comes out about us or some of this, we make sure we take care of, we get our brothers. Here's the politicians you support. Here's the positions you have. I feel it's more like that than it is this like, you're going to sell your soul to me and this is, if you want to get in the club, this is... I don't know, bro. I don't know if it's like that. But I do know that I think we conveniently dismiss a lot of old rituals and ancient practices that some people still subscribe to. There's some people that really do research back and they find their way into some weird setting where people have now kind of attached themselves to certain belief systems and rituals and things that... Like, for instance, we talked about this cult recently where this lady was like started out just fingering people and make it, right? And then look what she did. She started taking... Oh, you watched it? I watched it. Yes, she started taking other rituals, other parts of different religions, kind of piecing it together and putting it into this thing. So she could elevate the practice and create some kind of belief system around it. Bro, look at Epstein. Epstein, literally. Okay, all that should happen. Nothing else has happened. He was in a cell with surveillance cameras and guards. Oh, surveillance cameras turned off. Oh, the guards weren't looking. Hung himself. So is it though... I think it's a power thing. Statistically though, is it the same as the entire population and as it is in that select group? Because what I'm saying is like, remember when we talked to Bishop Barron about the whole... Oh, I hear what you're saying. Like, there's crazy people. There's a percentage of people. There's devil worshipers. There's crazy people. There's all these people as a percentage of the entire world and celebrities. There's millions of celebrities. I think it's a higher percentage. Okay, so that's the part I'm asking. Yeah, I think it's a higher percentage because people who seek that tend to be more. Do you or do you think that it gets highlighted so much because they're already in the limelight and when something like that happens, it gets talked about like crazy. All it takes is one Kanye West to go off the rails and it's the headline to every single thing. And now it's like everybody's conspiracy theorist. Well, now there's like two guys. I think there's a couple maybe that are like really into it, but they like cross paths and circles a lot. I mean, they get associated with some of the bad seeds out there. But I mean, even look at Bohemian Grove, for instance. That was real. What about, what are they called, spirit dinners or something like that? Yeah, exactly. Spirit dinners where they eat off of people that are like naked and they throw blood on. Or they eat soups made with blood. There's some weird shit that we don't get talked about. There's a video, there's a literal video of like, it was like a party and there's a bunch of celebrities there and they have this body on a table and it's like it's food, but they made it look like a human and with entrails and everything, they're eating from it. Yeah. And I'm like, why? Why are you guys, that's gross. And honestly, I think it's a novelty thing because like you get all this fame and attention and like weird shit. Yeah, you just get into weird things and like drawn into like gurus. Yeah. So you're going to get pulled in by some guru out there that's like doing weird shit. Who's that one baseball player, that video that came out? He was farting on the, what was that guy? It was a hooker. Oh, Chuck Berry. Yeah. Yeah, you got Chuck Berry, dude. Yeah, yeah. What was that all about? Just getting blasted. Yeah, because he did all the normal stuff. He got bored. I mean, it's a good point you made, Justin, that it is and say they're just seeking novelty because when you make that much money, you have that much access, you've done all the things that most people dream and hope to do one day. You've already done all of it. So it's like, oh, I got to do some weird shit that no one's thought of. They do some shit that no one's thinking about that because I've already done everything else. Let's try this out. That makes. I mean, also like the whole, the theories around Epstein was that he, if in order to be a part of the crew, you or group, you came and engaged in some of the behaviors, but then they had video of you. Now they have blackmail. Yeah. I think a lot of that, see, that's another point to it. I think that, you know, like deviously, like I think it's just a way that people always have something on somebody else, like especially in the political realm. I feel like to get in there, even in the network, to get in the network, like they want to be able to have some dirt, some information on somebody, a potential candidate. So that's why I believe it's kind of like the good old boys club where you just, if, let's say like Epstein's house, what about that? If you're there, you're part of the, you don't necessarily need to be part, participating in any of the crazy shits going on, but you're part of the club, which means you can't say anything about the people that are. No. And so you're on the list now. Yeah. And then I think that he was one of those people that saw an opportunity to blackmail all these people that are part of this circle. Or he worked for a group and he was, he was a twin. Well, I know that's taking it to the next level, stuff like that. I, again, I, what's that, what's that thing again? Razor's law, what's that? Occam's razor. Occam's razor. I think again, it's the, it's the more simpler answer. It's just like, listen, you get to that level. I try to leave on that as much as possible. Yeah. You get to that level. There's definitely a good old boys club. We see examples of this even in the fair game playing world of internet marketing and stuff like that. You're part of it. We take care of you. Somebody bashes you in part of that group. We're all going to protect you in that way. If anything bad happens within our group and our circle, we don't ever roll each other on the bus. It's like, and then you have an example like this of somebody that was intertwined with some of the most powerful people and saw an opportunity because he's greedy and wants more and more and more. I think Adam just wants to get invited. He wants to see. He's trying to be cool so that they invite him. I saw it all, but I wasn't part of it, you guys. Then he'll say no, but he'll come back and be like, yeah, all right. Dude, you'll see this in like fraternities, sororities. So it's like, it's not uncommon that, you know, they want, they want you to go through some weird like initiation or some kind of like a ceremony or something. So that way it's like, you're part of the group, you know? And so it's, it could get, I think that could get exaggerated and the pageantry of it, you know, they could just add blood now. And then now everybody thinks it's like this crazy satanic ritual. Yeah. See, I think it's more like that. And I think that's a great analogy too, is just bringing up like the fraternities and stuff. And again, another great example of how we see that play out, it out in the open. I mean, I've seen where you go to a big company that's got thousands of employees. And, you know, conveniently, there's hundreds of those employees that all went to the same school because they're all connected in fraternity. I know you guys are the same way. We'd be the worst people to invite to one of those things. I know, because we're already dicks when we go somewhere and everybody just kind of like claps at the same shit. And all of us are like, oh God, everybody's the same. Did you imagine? That's my skin. Yeah, get us out of here. Anyway, I got to mention public goods. I didn't know this. Did you guys know that their bottles are made from sugarcane? What? That's how biodegradable. Can you eat them? I never, I don't know if you think. Yeah. I don't, I don't think you can, but they're biodegradable. They're really made of sugarcane. That's what they say. The little white plastic bottles? Yes. That's how biodegradable they are. Wow. They're totally biodegradable. So it'll disintegrate at some point, is that? That's it. Wow. It feels like plastic. I know. Yeah. Wow. Isn't that great? Yeah, that's really cool. I did not know that. I had no idea. This whole time we've been working with them, I never even heard that fact. They go the extra mile to, you know, align with their values, which is to have minimal impact on the environment and of course, and provide products that are free of, you know, harmful chemicals. But that, I just learned today, which I thought was really cool. Hey, I want to stay consistent with recommending somebody that one of us is listening to, reading or whatever. Does anybody have anything? Do you guys have anything? Oh, I was going to bring up Jailhouse Strong. Which is a great page that, I like them. Refers to old power lifters, old strong men and I don't think they follow. It's on Instagram. Yeah, it's just got really cool. It references, you know, Mike Tyson, Henry Rawlins, like a lot of like cool quotes and just like lots of real badass people. I don't know. It's a fun page to follow. No, I love that. I mean, that's what I'm, I mean, selfishly, part of why I want to do this one, I want to obviously add value to the audience and provide them some of the stuff for it. Because we all, how often you guys get asked, where are you reading this? Or where are you at that? Like, and I want to include Salsa, you know, because I know you're big on the forums and the place like, you know, that counts too. Like it doesn't necessarily have to be a person. It could be anything from Instagram, YouTube, blog. No, what a great one you picked, Justin. I love this page. Yeah, I'm not even following. I'm going to follow. Oh, bro, they got. It reminds me of all these like old badasses that were like super strong and like some of their old lifts and everything. So. Oh yeah. You're going to see strong, strong man from the turn of the century from the sixties to seventies. This is cool. I'm on Bill Kazmire. There's some great Bill Kazmire clips on that, which he's in my opinion, one of the most badass. He's one of the goats. Yeah. Oh dude, I met him when he was 60 something years old and he rolled up a frying pan right in front of me. What? Yeah, right in his hands. I held the frying pan. You're like, this has got to be fake. No, it was real, bro. And he just rolled it up as part of a demo and did a bunch of them in front of people. That's wild. Hey, check this out. There's a company called Ned that makes hemp oil extract products high in CBD that you actually feel. So these are CBD products that are also full spectrum. So you get all the cannabinoids of the hemp plant and you feel this. It's not like those other crappy CBD products that you're taking. Like, is it actually doing something? This one you actually feel. In fact, one of my favorite products is their Brain Blend. This is a blend of cannabinoids and botanicals that improve cognitive function and produce a euphoric, motivated feeling. I was a part of this formulation. It's great products. Our favorite one now. Go check them out. They have a lot of other stuff as well. Go to helloned.com. That's H-E-L-O-N-E-D.com forward slash mind pump. And get yourself the mind pump discount. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Matt from Indiana. Matt, what's happening? How can we help you? Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm a big fan of the show. My brother put me, preferred me to you guys about three, four years ago. And yeah, ends up a list of you guys ever since. Good deal. See. So my question is, so in your programs, I have a couple of them, anabolic symmetry and kettlebells as well. And I noticed that in the sets, is it total sets or the warm up sets? But it's like working sets. Are you warming up to the working sets? Because I've done warm up sets and the working sets, and I've done some over training. So I just want to get some insight on that. Yeah, that's a good question. When we put the sets in a program, those are work sets. So it doesn't count what you need to do to warm up or prime. Do you have maps prime, by the way? I do. I have prime and prime bro. So I try to, and I do mobility girls all the time. A lot of my sore parts is my shoulder. But I think I have bicep tendonitis. So I've got a slight problem. But I've been doing, I modified the kettlebells for aesthetics. Don't almost look like math 15. Because I do it at home. Good deal. Yeah, yeah, it's work sets. And the amount of time that it takes you to warm up to get to your work sets is going to vary tremendously, depending on the lift, how strong you are and the individual. Like for me, for example, it takes a long time to get to work sets when I'm doing like a deadlifter squat. I have almost no, it takes me almost no time to get to a work set to like a curl or a lateral, or even an overhead press usually. Because usually by the time I get to overhead press, I've already done some kind of bench press or incline press. So you got to feel ready to get into the work sets, but we list the work sets. Now we created maps prime to help people get ready to lift in those work sets better and more effectively. Because traditionally what people would do is they would just do a bunch of warm-up sets of the exercise they were going to do. And that's not necessarily bad, but it doesn't really individualize what your warm-up or priming should look like. Because if I'm going to bench press, and let's say Justin is going to bench press, we could both do a bunch of bench press warm-ups, which is okay, but him and I may have different needs. We may have different shoulder mobility issues or maybe mid-back activation or stability that we need to work on. So prime was designed specifically to individualize that and get you into the groove faster. So that your work sets are more effective. But yeah, there's a pretty wide range of individual. And you may even find this for yourself, Matt. Do you find that sometimes it just takes you longer to get to where you feel like you're in the groove of your sets versus other times where you feel like you can kind of jump in and you feel good? Yeah, a lot of it, my lower body responds pretty quickly, but my upper body still like my shoulders respond a little slower. So it takes me a little longer. Again, my working sets are my shoulders, especially because I have my right shoulder. I think it's nice. So I go a lot lighter, a lot slower. So it doesn't take me a little longer. Yeah, so someone like you, you're a perfect example, like I'd want to do either like a zone one wall test to get you going or handcuff with rotation. That's what I would do with you to prime you. And then we go into your shoulder movements and then hopefully you can get right into your working sets within the first set if not the second set right away. So and to Sal's point, like there's certain people that they're going to be able to get right into a squat and by the second squat, they're already in the groove. There's other people that are going to take three, four sets or they're going to have to do a bunch of combat stretch and 90 90 stuff like, and that was a lot of me. Like I had to do a lot of that work before I could really get into a working set. Now what's cool is if you're diligent with the priming and you don't not only do you prime before you do those lifts, but you get good about priming those shoulders all the time, even when you're not training, you'll have to do less and less of it to get in the groove. So what I just squatted yesterday, and I literally had to get down, do like a couple minutes of priming and then I'm like working into my squat right away. Yeah, before that was like a 30 minute before that's 20, 30 minutes to get me to, I had to get 90 90. And I did all those growing stuff. Frog. I mean, I was spending 20 minutes to get into my squats where I, but I was consistent with that for a couple of years to where now I just, you know, I can warm up prime real quick and get right in my squats, which I wasn't like that just a couple of years ago for me. That's a really, really good point, Adam, to make is that the better you get at this, the less of it you end up having to do as you continue to progress. And if you find that you need more and more warmups, more and more priming as you continue, usually means you're not addressing the root cause. It usually means you're doing some kind of band-aid work. Right. So I used to do this with foam rolling. Like foam rolling can be a great part of proper priming, but by itself it's really a band-aid. And when I first did foam rolling, I thought it was magic, but then I found as I continued to work out time and time again, I'd have to foam roll more and more and more. And that's when I realized, okay, like I'm not really addressing kind of the root issue. You know, with your bicep tendon inflammation, aside from the shoulder mobility, static stretching, not before your workout, but afterwards or in between workouts will really help. So bicep static stretching and lat static stretching. Sometimes tight lats can cause issues in the shoulder when you're pressing, and that can manifest with bicep tendon inflammation. Great. Yeah. Do you, what are you going to follow after this? Because I would like to see you follow... Symmetry. Well, no, he's got symmetry. Do you have MAP Strong? I don't have MAP Strong. Okay. So at home, I have three kettlebells and a hundred pound sandbag at home with some dumbbells as well. Yeah, I like MAP Strong for you afterwards. MAP's performance would be great as well if you don't have that. I think those are two programs that would be good follow-ups to what you're doing. Probably performance because he's working out from home. First, yeah. Yeah. Well, Strong, you could do quite a bit of it if you have a barbell and dumbbells. I think you could do most. I did it at home. Yeah, as long as you have a barbell. Yeah, yeah. So let's send you... I don't have any barbells. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, MAP's performance then. We'll send that over to you. Sweet. I appreciate that, guys. No problem, man. Thanks for calling in. Thanks. You know what's funny about this is that as individualized as a workout needs to be, warm-ups are even more... Of course. Of course. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which is the flip of what people think. It's not something people consider a lot. No. And I'm glad actually this question was asked because it's a very common one in terms of like, is this an actual work session? Because if you get really good at this and you're able to identify those areas that you need to add in and warm up, especially for stabilization or putting you in a good position, it's really going to get you right into the mix and get you to write to the work sessions if you do it right. Yeah, this is an area where not everybody agrees in our space. Yep. There's this idea in the strength community but from very intelligent experience lifters that this idea of priming or doing shit before you work out is a waste of time and you just need to... Just do the exercise. Do the exercise more, squat more, and that'll warm you up and do that. And I don't agree. I just feel like, can you? Yes. Will that work? Possibly. But if you don't do what you said yourself, you don't address the root cross. For example, I had really poor ankle mobility. I could have just kept squatting more, squatting more, and that would have improved my squatting. I'd be a little bit better at it. But because I put so much work even outside of getting ready for my squat, doing it at home, I increased my range of motion on that. Now, when I get ready to go squat, I can literally get right into a squat and do it right away and be effective versus if I always would have just done the whole mentality of, oh, let's just squat more or shoulder press for three warm-up sets before it's like, I'd be in the same position. I wouldn't have increased my range of motion. Yeah. So the reason why I think that there's a lot of strength coaches that are smart, smart people that just say, oh, just do the exercise and warm-up is because there is some truth in it. Now, the challenge is if, first off, if you're experienced, you could identify like, oh, I need to press my knees out as I go down more or oh, I need to pull up on my toes as I go down to work on ankle mobility. So you could theoretically do that just by practicing the squat. But if you don't have that understanding experience, it's going to be really hard. You just keep doing the same squat and you'll get a little warmed up and you're not really addressing some of those root cause versus getting into positions that illuminate it, right? That make it obvious like, oh, I don't have any extra rotation here. That's such a good point, Sal, because the guys that make the argument and girls that make the argument are biomechanically experts. That's what I mean. So they can totally feel and understand. And they often work with other high-level athletes. Yeah. Where the average person doesn't quite know how to connect like that. They can make the micro adjustments on the spot. And I mean, to the other point, for me, if I do do the priming, but I still feel like maybe I'm not quite as stable, like I haven't accounted for all these things as I'm going into the exercise, I might do one set where I'm really feeling my way through and even pausing and connecting to it. But that's all I need. And then I get right into the work session. Yeah. And it depends on the exercise. It depends on the person. I've worked with people that jump right into a squat. I'm not one of those people. A squat for me takes a while. A deadlift a little less, but still takes a while. You know, you give me an overhead press. I could warm up one set and I'm ready to rock and roll. Other people, it's like that guy we just talked to. For him, it's all upper body exercises. Yeah. So, and it's funny because in our space, people think that the workout needs to be the most individualized thing and that the warm-up is this generalized thing. In reality, they're both individualized, but if I had to pick one to be more individualized, it's the warm-up. Of course. That's the most... That's why MAPS Prime was so hard. So it sets you up for success. This is why when we created MAPS Prime, it was by far the most challenging program we ever created. We were stuck for a day and a half on some of the problems that we had to solve with that because it's like, how do we create something that allows people to individualize it to the point where it's effective, not just giving people, you know, general warm-ups? Our next caller is Ed from California. Ed, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, guys, it's great to be on with you. I know your time is extremely valuable. I see how big Adam's bets are on his Instagram, so I'll just dive right in. I'm 41, 5'10", 190 pounds, and I started strength training about 10 months ago, so I'm newbie to it. Before that, I was a typical cardio guy. So I had a dexa scan last week and it showed I added about 7 pounds of muscle since I started strength training. Nice. But my body fat percentage is also up. It's at 25%. So I'm mentally committing to losing 15 pounds of fat over the next year, and I was thinking of doing Dr. Cabral's 21-day detox to kind of prime my body. It'd be my first detox ever, but I'm concerned that the detox will crash my metabolism. My BMR is about 1,800 calories, maintenance is about 2,500, and I'm in the middle of MAPS anabolic. So any advice on how I should run a detox to kind of kick off long-term weight loss without crashing sort of my hard-earned metabolism? Yeah, it's unlikely that it'll happen in 21 days that you'll cause that. People who really, I don't know, for lack of a better term, because it's not like people are breaking their metabolism. Their metabolism is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, right? It adapts. Usually that comes from weeks and weeks and weeks. Chronic for a long time. Yeah, chronic dieting, chronic overtraining, long periods of time. Women are more susceptible to it than men as well. Men tend to rebound a little bit better than women do. I wouldn't worry about it. You're in a good place. Yeah, and really Dr. Cabral's, their goal is to make you healthy. So being in a healthy place is going to set you up better. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. I wouldn't try to make PRs or anything like that during that period of time. After that, then you can go back to trying to eat the way that you feel like you need to, to build muscle and burn body fat. But 21 days is that's not good. I love this idea. I think this is a great, I mean you have a great goal that you set for yourself. I think it's a great way to kick it off, especially if along the way part of your goal is to try and like get closer to understanding what foods maybe disrupt your digestion versus what foods don't. This is kind of how I like to restart. If I were to go into a kick right now, I'm like, okay, I want to get shredded or get lean right now. The very first thing I would do is do a two or three day fast right away for the same type of concept. And then I would slowly introduce foods to kind of pay attention to what foods are agreeing with me and which ones aren't. You having Cabral actually take you through this is even better than that. So I love this. And I think you're in a good place. I think you're eating 2,500, 2,600 calories for your size. You've put on some good lean mass recently. So I think you're in a great place for this. I would love to hear how it goes. Yeah. I mean, I've just been following what you guys have been talking about. So I'm all in, you know, built up my metabolism slowly over the past year. It's been great. Excellent. How much longer do you have of anabolic and what's your plan as far as the programs? What are you following? Yeah. So I have the RGB bundle. And after anabolic, I was thinking of doing performance. But, you know, it was going to just depend on kind of how I felt with this 21. So I was going to do the detox after I finished anabolic. I didn't want to do anabolic well and the detox at the same time. You know what actually, you know, it'd be good to go with that is the is our Maths 15. Yeah. So while you're doing the detox. Maths 15 would be really good. We'll send Maths 15 over to you. Switch over to that, because that'll be like lower volume. So you're still lifting, staying active, but you're more focused on the diet, the detox side. And then then transition into, if I was coaching you, that's what I'd see. I'd say, hey, let's run 15, Maths 15 while you're doing the detox. And then I'll transition you over to performance after that. Don't get too caught up on any lean body mass or body fat percentage changes during this 21 day period. Because really the idea with this is to reduce inflammation, reduce the stress load on your body, identify food and about, you know, food intolerances, that kind of stuff. So, you know, water, your water rate can fluctuate. That shows up as lean body mass sometimes. Inflammation can change. If you do lose a little lean body mass, it comes right back because of muscle memory. So I wouldn't get caught during that 21 day period. I wouldn't get caught up too much on, on, you know, performance, strength and muscle. I would just focus on data collection. Totally. 100%. Okay. Cool. No, that sounds like a plan. Thanks. And you know, my experience with Maths on a Balak is like it's worth 10 times what you guys charge for the entire RGB bundle. Wow. Yeah, we're gonna use that clip. You know what, let's, let's do that. Let's see. Everybody gets mad. I used to go to your gym. I used to go to your 24-hour fitness gym. Oh, did you really? Yeah. Yeah, I'm keyed up. Oh, and I spent all my time avoiding you because you'd walk around with this like huge yoga ball and like just like try and talk up people. And I'd see you bring them into like the, the room to do like the yoga. Wait, hold on a second. Did you, did you actually work out there when I was managing it? I did. Yeah, you would, you'd be there at the front desk with like, you know, the associate and like, you know, greeting people and you'd offer to spot people and like you stood out in my mind, right? Because like it was a manager who was doing all these things. And, and, um, but yeah, we tried to avoid you most of the time because like, you know, we couldn't, we couldn't lift. We were intimidated by the big buff guy who was like, you know, walking around trying to pack people up. Saratoga. So it's ironic that I'm calling you now. Yeah. Saratoga was this tiny little club and Wow, Saratoga. I was only there for a few months that they, because before I went to Sunnyvale and then became a general manager, but it was kind of like a test because I was so young. I was 18 and they were like, Wow, you remember that. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Cause we had the pass that you kind of go to every once. We also went to the Sunnyvale one as well. Oh, good deal. Did I ever sell you, did I ever sell you anything? Did you ever buy anything? No, we were super shy. Like I just go straight to the cardio machines. You avoided you, dude. Yeah, we avoided you. I was like, I don't want to embarrass myself on the yoga ball with style. Hey, listen, I played the long game. I played the long game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look where you are now. 12 years later, he got you. Yeah, it's like 20 years later. So it's ironic that you stand out like, and I'm calling you now. So did you find the show and then piece that all together or did you actually find him because of that? How did you, how did that go? So I found the show and then I pieced it together because like this guy looks really familiar. Oh, wow. And then you started talking about 25-hour fitness like, oh, and then you mentioned keto and then you also mentioned that there was a hot tub that never worked. I'm like, that's, that's the one. Oh, wow, what a small world. He looks just like this guy in New York City. Had way more hair. I tell you what, and if you're ever in the area with your buddies or whatever like that, you want to come watch a live recording, send us an email, and then since you're nearby, you can come stop by and say hi. It'd be great to catch up. Thanks for calling. Yeah, I'd love to because I feel like you guys have done so much. You know, I just want to find a way to thank you guys, you know? For sure, you did, you did. Come say hi, Ed. Thanks, Ed. We'll do it. All right, man. All right, thanks very much. That's, that's the location. Wow, the fact that he remembers it's so great. That's 20 years ago, bro, almost 20 plus. I was such an aggressive kid, too, back then. I was, literally, I walk around. Oh, you know what's funny? So aggressive that he remembers, please. It's just some yoga. Leave me alone. Hey, do you take supplements? I, uh, that's the location where somebody passed out in the jacuzzi and I had to squat down and pick up this like 250 pound wet dude out of the jacuzzi, put him on the floor, ambulance came and everything. You know, he was okay. But I was, I was a kid. I was 18 years old. Like, is someone going to die? You know, on my watch. Wow. A tiny little club. It was a tiny, they don't even own it anymore. They sold it. Oh, they don't? Yeah, it was a tiny, tiny little location. I remember it. I didn't know they sold it though. Yeah, it was really small. Oh, wow. I didn't, I didn't know that. Wow, it's so great, dude. I mean, so back to his question, what, what we really, what he called in for. I love this. I like this idea a lot. Yeah, so do I. Because, I mean, this is, we've talked off air about when we kind of get on these kicks. We, I just did it recently. It was just a month ago or so when I, when I did my little three day fast, like that's my, I love to reset myself before I go into like, okay, I'm going to get focused or prep in my food again or like that. I think it's a, it's a great idea for people to do this. Yeah, I think it brings a lot of insight. Yeah. Especially if you're coming in with the, I just want to get healthier kind of mentality with that. And also, I mean, it's pretty similar to like, I think anybody should do like an elimination diet at some point, you know. So this is kind of in line with that way of thinking. Yeah. And you know what, we should be clear because working with a functional medicine practitioner or functional medicine team, like Dr. Cabral's team, is not the same thing as 90% of the detox, you know, fresh start diet, whatever. Those are all complete bullshit. They're all terrible. And they do cause people problems. This is different. So this is a functional medicine practitioner. They're trying to identify intolerances, work on stress, inflammation. And that's a great place to get started. I mean, it's not the same as those other things. I actually don't like that they use detox. I don't like that name either. Because it's got such a bad connotation. Because really, really what it is is a scheduled, controlled, supervised elimination diet. That's a big part of it. That's what it is. It's really, it's really a controlled by a doctor elimination diet. And I love this for starting. Especially like one of the coolest parts about running a fast or doing something like this detox for 21 days, is as you start to reintroduce foods, if you've never really paid attention to your body's natural signals of if food agrees with you or not, I think it's so, I think it's so enlightening. It's illuminating. Yes. It's empowering. Because now you know like how to navigate going forward with like your food disease. Well, and I always notice something that I didn't catch the time before. That's it. I always get a food that I'm like, oh, I thought that agreed with me. And consider that's you. Those experience, know what you're doing. Now the average person doesn't even have your experience. They get blown away by the stuff that they figure out. Oh my God, I always eat that. I can't believe that's the thing that's causing my heartburn or my sleep issues or my skin issues. And what it is, you know, some of the people that have never tried to do this is it's crazy because you're so sensitive because you've kind of, you know, quote unquote detoxed that when you take in a food that doesn't agree with you, the signals are much louder. That's right. So like they say you're somebody who is, has an intolerance, let's say to, you know, wheat and you didn't know it and you always had wheat in your diet all the time. And but you have up and down days when it comes to your stool and you don't really, you don't know what it's from. Then all of a sudden you do this elimination diet and then the first time you have some wheat and you're like running to the toilet right away or you feel like a rock and you're something like, that is your body telling you, like it does not agree with it. It's hard to hear sounds when everything's loud all the time. Right. It's easy when everything's quiet. Then you can hear little sounds and pick things out and that's exactly what's happening. Doug, is there a website we can send? Because I know we have our forum but if somebody wants to go to the Dr. Cabral site and work with them, let's get that, let's get that, that site so I can. Yeah, I have to look that up. Okay. That's all right. I think it's drstevencabral.com ford slash mind pump and I'll double check that. And then you also have the access to the MP holistic health in the private. Which is a free, free, free forum. Yeah. And you can ask in there too. So if you're just curious and you want to know more questions about it, like go inside that forum. It's actually stevencabral.com ford slash mind pump. Steven is S-T-E-P-H-E-N and then C-A-B-R-A-L.com ford slash mind pump. Our next caller is Daniel from Texas. Daniel, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey guys, how y'all doing? Doing good, man. I guess first of all, I'll start with the, you know, the cursory. Thank you. I've been an avid listener for about two years or so. And you know, the content you guys put out has really, you know, helped me a lot. And there I say, changed my life. Right on, man. But so, so I have a tendency that when I get nervous, kind of try to make dumb jokes. So I'll just try to stick to the script here. Hey, well, Daniel, throw him out. Tell us about your cock on the wall back there. Yeah, we're all dads here. We love, we love. I knew you were going to say that. Adam's the first always to spot a cock. Yeah. I see that he's just kind of surprised you will. So this is like employee housing. And that was, so that's not my cock. It's somebody else's cock. Explain somebody else's cock. Anyway, we're done. That's a big one too. So I'll jump in the background. Children. So I've kind of, you know, I've worked out, you know, strength training on and off for at least 10 years. And, but I've been, you know, super consistent for probably about 18 months now. And, you know, a lot of that I can attribute to, to listen to you guys. You'd help me stay consistent there. But my wife and I had a baby in September. And so, so before that, you know, I worked through anabolic performance. And then I kind of blended those two for, for a couple months. And it did kind of my own deal, you know, with those two programs. And then I got strong and went through that and loved that. And so then, of course, after the baby was born, you know, I didn't really have time and consistency to really get a full workout schedule in. So for, for a little bit, I just kind of basically did mobility and some unilateral work, just, you know, scattered in wherever I could fit it in. And then, you know, luckily at that perfect time, you guys dropped maps to 15 and I picked that up. But I've been doing that for a little while. And it's, it's been fantastic as well. If it's kind of perfectly with my life right now. But, you know, the baby is, it's basically at the point that it's, you know, we're lucky enough that he's almost sleeping through the night now. And he just started daycare. And so I'm kind of getting back to where, you know, pretty soon with the next few weeks, I'm going to be like, you know, physically and schedule-wise able to kind of go back to a full program. And, you know, of the 18 months that have been consistent, it's basically almost all been focused on trying to lose fat. You know, I did, well, I did strong. I did, you know, probably a four, maybe six week bulk there, but it really wasn't very successful. I had, you know, kind of got sick and some stuff like that. Anyway, so now I'm at the point that I, I kind of want to turn around and, and the next year focus on really building muscle. And so, you know, my, my main, my goal is over that year to, to probably put on about eight to 10 pounds of muscle and just not, you know, I know I'm not going to lose fat while I do that, but at least, you know, try to maintain kind of. And so, so my question is with that, with that new goal in mind, how should I kind of start scaling back up my volume after, you know, having, you know, two months here where my volume has been very low, you know, and kind of, you know, physical stress demand of, of how much I'm going to lose. Having a new baby and should I, you know, start back with anabolic and kind of run through the program just like I did last time, you know, anabolic performance and strong, or should I, you know, look at a totally new program? Or, you know, how do I set those up to, to kind of maximize the gain that the gains I want to try to make over the next year? I'm looking at your programs right now that you have. I would love to hear what the guys have to say, but I'd love to see you do symmetry and I'll have Doug send symmetry to you, right? So as you get back in, you're running 15 right now, I would go to symmetry first, then anabolic, then performance, and then I would run aesthetic after that. Or power lift. Or power lift would be great. Are you, are you doing the advanced version of math 15 or the, the. I am, yeah. Yeah, the advanced version. Oh yeah, you're going to be good, dude. I like symmetry right after that. So have Doug send you symmetry and then I like the power lift or aesthetic after your anabolic and performance. Yeah, no, you're going to be good. And you know, scaling down volume, which, which, which maps 15 does, you didn't stop. In other words, you went from, you know, maps anabolic or whatever to maps 15 advanced version. So it's not like you stopped completely. Is that true? No, yeah, I stayed consistent throughout. Yeah, you're going to be okay. You could jump the volume back up and you'll be, you know what'll happen is you'll feel, you'll probably get a little extra, you'll get extra sore for the first week, and then you're going to be fine. When you really need to pay attention to scaling the volume properly is when you go from nothing to back into working out. That's when it really becomes an issue. So really the thing to pay attention to is the intensity. So maybe that first week of map symmetry, just keep the intensity moderate and then go into, you know, maybe more intense. Actually, to be honest with you. Isometrics. You're right. No, map symmetry starts off perfect. That's why I think it's perfect. I think isometrics then go to unilateral work. Yeah, you're fine. And then you go to anabolic and then performance. Yeah. So Doug's going to send you symmetry on us. And then if you were to, if there's any programs that you would get later, I'd say aesthetic and power lift. Okay. Wow. Fantastic. Thank you guys so much. So, so as far as aesthetic goes, I guess just a side question here. The reason I didn't do that last time is because I figured that it had a bunch of kind of cable work and I have a home gym and I just really don't have, you know, cable set up. Is that so should I look toward power lift or is that, is there modifications I can do to that program? You can modify either one. I mean, you know, with the cable exercises with aesthetic, dumbbell exercises can be substituted and bands. Bands. And bands can be substituted as well. And we have that. The dumbbell mods on that one, right, Justin? Yeah. And also we have the at home blueprint for that too if you want to do just the dumbbell version. But yeah, I think he bands will suffice. Yep. Totally. I mean, because remember cables, it's not like cables are like these big compound gross motor movements. They're really designed to, you know, connect and squeeze and you can get that with bands. No problem. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. You got it, man. And congratulations on that. Thank you guys so much. And congratulations on the baby, huh? Yeah, absolutely. Having all the fun. Yeah, good stuff, man. Thanks for calling in. Dude. Yeah, that's a good, you know, I forgot about that. Symmetry starts off perfectly. Yeah. Props to him for, you know, sticking with it. Like I think we literally created Mass 15 for like a new parent. It's the perfect program for that. That's the time you get. Yeah. 15 minutes. All you get. Yeah. And to keep it going and be consistent, it's going to be so much easier for him to get right. I mean, I love to hear somebody who has a story like that, who's been using our programs for the last couple of years, had all these great results, then end up having a kid, ends up transitioning into Mass 15. It's like, but never really stopped. Just keep a beat. Yeah. One of the biggest myths with fitness and challenges that people encounter is they think, if I can't do it this way, then it's not worth it at all. Right. So if I can't do it the way I was doing it before, then why waste my time? It is never a waste of time. Exercise should be molded to fit your lifestyle. That's how you get all the value out of it. And if you fall into that, well, if I can't go crazy hardcore, then I'm not going to do anything at all. You're going to have a rough time with your progress over the years. In fact, you'll find yourself just taking two steps forward, two steps back every time. Our next caller is Arturo from Indiana. Arturo, how can we help you? Hey guys, happy to be here. I want to do the thankful bid of the introduction first. You've helped me and you've helped me help my family and friends. So double thanks for that. Just any of your introductions and even products that you promote are especially good for us. Thank you. A bit of my background. I am 33, 510, about 88 kilograms, which is like 195. Relatively new to weightlifting as in two years due to the pandemic is when I started the cool programs or workouts out there, like the Wolverine workout or the 300 beginner stuff. Eventually, I started running into your guys' content, ran in the Bollock 18 months ago and just fell in love with it. Then got into performance and right before you started promoting power lift or strong, I started doing 5x5 mode of training. Been liking lifting heavy. Been getting strong. I haven't focused much on the weight on the scale as much as the plates on the bar, how I feel, but that's what brings me to you. I've been feeling pains. I've been feeling stiffness, some joint issues. I've been running for about 12 weeks now and it's getting to the point that every plate, as little as it be on the bar, I'm like, well, I don't know if this is going to be the one that snaps it or can I keep going? Because of all the content that you put out there, I know that there's a ton of ways that I can sort of pivot from here, whether it's like multiple plates of motion or more mobility or shorter workouts, lighter weights, but I now have analysis paralysis and I have no idea which way to go from here and if that's going to be the best one. Yeah, first off, I want to say that 5x5 or strong lifts, this is a very old school tried and true tested workout program and it's good. It's actually one of the better workout programs. But like all workout programs, there's positives and negatives and the longer you stay on it, the more you get the negatives and the less you get the positives. And one of the things that you're experiencing is quite common. Training this style, eventually what you start to notice is joint pain. You start to notice imbalances, instability, because it's very, it's basic, which is what makes it good, but the basicness, the working of one plate of motion is also what starts to cause problems. So it's definitely time to switch to something that's going to create more balance in your body. I think map symmetry would be perfect. For sure. That would be a perfect program for you to follow. And then after that, you could try something like map strong or even maps aesthetic, you know, or split, which is more bodybuilding style. But symmetry is going to, it's going to totally tackle all of the issues that are coming up for you right now following 5x5. I think you've just gone too long on it. That's what's happened. My recommendation would be exactly that. It would be symmetry and then go towards more, because it sounds like we haven't spent much time in the bodybuilding type of mentality. And I think that would serve you right now as amazing as the 5x5s are and amazing as anabolic is, like those types, that way of training, I think your body's talking to you now and it's time to take care of it. Symmetry, which is isometric unilateral work, which I think was going to serve you very well. And then going to something that's a little bit more bodybuilder focused like aesthetic or split, I think is the move for sure for now. And then you could go back after that. Then you could return to like a power lift or a strong 5x5, but give the body a little bit of rest on the real heavy, heavy 5x5 type of training and just see how it responds and see if you notice you feel a lot better. Yeah, you'll build more muscles. What's going to happen? Do you have a Maps Prime Pro? No, I only have the Prime. Okay. So Prime is good. Prime Pro is going to get even deeper. And that's going to allow you, if you really like the style of training, because look, this is me, right? I go in and out of different training styles, but I like to live mostly in heavy style training. It's just what I enjoy the most. So I tend to go there most often. And Prime Pro allows me to stay in there longer. Now, I'm not saying it's the solution. Like I could just stay in it forever because I have Prime Pro because eventually I have to move out of it too. But it allows me to stay in there longer so I can do what I enjoy more. And that's what Prime Pro does. It allows people to train the way that they love more often without having to move into something else. I'm not saying that it's an issue moving into something else. That's what you need to do. But everybody has a preference. And that is a value. Part of the value of training is doing what you love. And if you want to continue to train this way a little bit longer, stretch it out a little bit more, then Prime Pro I think would be something that would help you out. But we'll send you a map symmetry. I think that's the next one. Yeah, start there. I think everybody agrees that's the place to start. Totally. Definitely. Thank you. Yeah. My goal is basically that just strength and mobility, the aesthetics are not an issue for me. I like to look good, but I know that's a byproduct. And I do like that feeling of feeling solid, full, not just pumped with air. So yeah, I really appreciate the advice and everything. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, I appreciate it. You got it. Take care. You know what this reminds me of? What's that saying in business? It's like, you got to do the stuff you don't want to do so you can do the stuff you want to do. Yeah. You know what I mean? Do the things you have to do now so you can do the things you want to do later. That's it. That's the one right there. And it's just if you're going to do this for a long time, I mean, you know, that's what you have to do eventually. Eventually, the perfect program is not the right program. Well, what I love about symmetry, too, is like we have that at phase four. Like you're going to be able to see what that does literally to a 5x5 style of training. It's really going to enhance that. And I think, you know, between any power lifter, any strength athlete in general, should really just take that extra time and go through a phase of unilateral training. And look, I can't stress this enough. You will hit PRs doing this. And I think that the fear, and I know this because I'll feel it myself, is if I move away from the style of tramboluse strength, I'm not going to hit that number that I want to hit. No, it's like, you know, what do they say? It's like, you know, pulling back a bow, right? It's like, yeah, you got to take a step back, but only so you can fire the arrow much further. And that's exactly what happens. And I just experienced that now hitting, you know, some numbers I haven't hit in a long time because I went through a long period of training in ways that, you know, I tend to neglect. Well, you hit it on the head on the thing that's probably the most challenging for somebody who goes into symmetry, especially like this, because we tend to recommend it to somebody like this that would serve their body well, is okay, I love heavy five by five and go into isometrics is a dramatic difference. I mean, it's the incomplete opposite into the spectrum. So you're a shill shot. Yeah, here's no weight, buddy. You know, just squeeze and work. So I think the hardest part is the mental shift for someone like that. And then even after they run a phase of isometrics, then you tell them, oh, you got to go unilateral. So again, they're doing a lot less weight than what they're used to putting on the bar. So I think that the biggest challenge of symmetry is disciplining yourself to follow it as it's laid out, but trust the process. Because then you get to the phase where you get to go test what happens when you actually take care of your body like that. 100%. Look, if you like mine pump, head over to mine pump free.com and check out our guides. We have free guides that can help you with a lot of health and fitness goals. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at mine pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at mine pump, Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at mine pumps out. This one's really important. And that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps. If you compared that person to a person who did bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of let's say 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw in some supersets. At the end of that year, you're going to see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury. That's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.