 It's a world where there are two caves. In one cave, people living is conscious, people living, clean people who is worried and concerned about others, about nature, the environment they live in. The other cave, it's people dirty. They don't care about others. When they have to go to toilet, they even don't go out of the cave. So when everything is a mess, they decide to move to another cave. Now, the moment, the current moment we are living, there are no more caves to move. So we have to change our mind and care the cave, the place, the environment where we live. So we must change the mind, the mentality. There is no more me and you. Now it's time for us. Nancho Dean is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas, brought to you by 1.5 Media and Innovators Magazine. Nancho is a naturalist, professional explorer and popularizer, the first person in history to walk around the world and swim across the five continents. There have been more people on the moon. But beyond this feat, what is truly important is the purpose for which he undertakes these expeditions. It is the conservation of our planet. That is the purpose and his mission. From 2013 to 2016, he went around the world on foot, an adventure that led him to travel four continents, 31 countries and 33,000 kilometers on foot alone, without assistance and without interruption to document our big problem, climate change, the climate crisis. Between 2018 and 2019, he completed the NEMO expedition, a challenge that has led him to unite the five continents by swimming to launch a message of ocean conservation. Nancho was born on August 20th, 1980 in Malaga. He owes his passion for nature and adventure to his parents, who from an early age took him to the mountains camping and swimming in the sea. As a professional naturalist, professional adventurer, speaker and writer of a couple of books, his mission is to make expeditions that document the state of our planet, disclose and raise awareness of the importance of caring for this our only home. Nancho, welcome to the show. It's so great to have you here. Hi, Mark, thank you very much. It's an honor and a true privilege talking to you in your podcast. You're absolutely welcome. It's my honor and privilege to have you here because I think what you've done is an absolute amazing feat. You've had some adventures and experience that as it says in your biography, very few people have ever had to see the home that we're actually standing on all the time to see every aspect and to see how it's functioning. You've written a couple of books. I know that they're only in Spanish. Can you tell me the names of them and kind of how the progress is going on those books to get them into English and a little bit of, well, what's in them and what they're about. We have a big Spanish audience, but we also have a much larger English audience and I'd like to let them know that maybe something to hope for in the future. Yeah, I wrote the first book called Wild and Free. I published it in 2017 and it's about the expedition that took me to walk around the world to document climate change. It's actually having a very good welcoming. It's in the sixth edition and by the moment it's only the Spanish version but we are working on the English version. So hopefully I think maybe around 2021 it will be in the English market. And I just published my second book two months ago in June, 2020. It's the name of this book is The Call of the Ocean. And it's about another expedition I did that led me to connect the five continents swimming to rise awareness for the oceans. So the real protagonists of this book are the oceans. It's not me, are the oceans and what I've seen, what I've documented in all the marine environments, I swim and I to cross and connect the oceans. So by the moment two books and we are working on the English version. Fabulous, now did you self publish those books or are they sponsored? Do you have some kind of a partner that's helping you, supporting you to get those books published? Yeah, I publish them with the Publishing House Planeta is the largest publishing house in the Spanish market and they publish here in Spain and also in America. So I'm happy to work with the best team and we've got the same goal is that these books reach as much audience as possible. Fabulous, you have a lot of videos online as well and some in Spanish, some in English, majority in Spanish and there's a lot of ways people can go and look and follow you. I have a few other questions. Your biography actually is much longer because you've been around, you've done a lot of things and you've done some expeditions and it's taken you different years of a journey across the world and not only walking and swimming. My question is there's a program with National Geographic called the Explorer Program. Have they approached you at all? Are you a member of that? One and two, there's another program with Conservation International that they're looking for fellows and people just like you who are going around the world and documenting these things. Have you been approached by any of these big, huge organizations? Because what you do is amazing, they should be gobbling you up to try to get this message out there to humanity. Yeah, I haven't reached those both organizations but it's one of my goals in the, not in the short term, but in the medium term. As you said before, I've been working on the Spanish market but my goal is to jump into the English market because my expeditions are global, are international, so I think my message has to be thrown to all the humanity. So I'm trying to work with different partners, one of course is National Geographic and also for the conservation of the nature. I will be very happy to work with them. And now I think it's time we must collaborate with the partner and people. So, and here in Spain, things move different than in the English market. Of course, walk around the world and connect the five continents are unprecedented achievements and that's not the important for me. The most important thing is the mission I want to reach with this project. So I will be very happy to work with them. Great, well, I think organizations like that are a great support, not only monies but reach and awareness to promote your message. I asked you on the show because I believe what you've done I know it's not about you, it's about your mission and about the planet and the oceans but that's not a feat that everybody would take upon themselves a selfless act. And so I wanna make sure that you're supported in those organizations actually find you and help support to get the word out because it's important because there's things that you've seen, that you've experienced, that you've documented that are important things that we all need to know that we might not be able to go out and do some of the things even tickle the surface of what you've done but we can live vicariously through you and your experiences to bring us to another place. And that's really what I wanna hope to do today on the show is I want you to give your insights and your takeaways to my guests and my listeners so that they can feel empowered or more knowledgeable about what you learned and what they could do in applying it to their lives to make our planet better, to conserve our oceans and help fix some of the problems that we're experiencing. You and I met last year at COP 25 in Madrid and it was a nice meeting, it was very short, we didn't get a talk very long, I was busy running around to other things and you were busy as well but it was an honor for me to meet you but I'm telling my listeners this because I want them to know how we connected and how our paths crossed and how we've remained in touch with each other since that time. How were your feelings at the end of the COP after you finished your days of visiting and your time there? How did you feel that entire event went and from that point to today, how have you weathered the pandemic? How has your progress been and gone up until this point? You mentioned earlier you launched your book during the middle of the pandemic, so June, that's also gotta be a little bit frustrating to launch it in the middle of a lockdown and things and so I would like to find out how you felt about the COP and what was achieved and what you got out of it and then your experience up until now through the pandemic, how all your life's experiences have maybe prepared you, helped you to get through this time. You have another surprise there that maybe you'll let us all know on that happened during that time as well so I won't talk too much but I wanted to set you up to tell us that story. Yeah, for me it was great to meet you in the COP 25 here in Madrid. It's true it was a short meeting but I feel deeply touched by talking to you. I feel just in a few minutes we have many things in common and I was looking forward to see or to meet you in another time so I think now is that moment. It's through a scream but I think it's a first step then maybe it will come maybe new and more steps. Yeah, it's true now. I think every movement we do to raise awareness for the planet and for nature is great, it's good but we don't have time enough to waste so I think we must be ambitious, ambitious from all point of view, citizens from the society, all the companies as top decision makers and of course the governments so it's okay every step is good in the right direction but I think we don't have to waste time and we must act fastly, we don't have time to waste. During this time, of course I published my second book in June it was planned to be published in March so we have to wait three months later. To publish a book is like the end is like to cycle the expedition. I've been for one year training and planning, two years to accomplish the expedition and one more year to write the book so it's four years in an expedition when you publish the book, you expect the top the most so when you publish your book is the pandemic time so it's not the best time to sell it but your job is well done, you've done everything in your hands so we go like we could say like stone by stone building the building, the bridge. There is another surprise, I've been fathered recently. Congratulations. Thank you very much. I was fathered on April 30th of April. I was living actually, I was living in Madrid that's my, we can say with my campsite is in Madrid where I move and I fly and I travel but we have another house in the north of Spain so few days before the lockdown were imposed so we decide to go to this little house in the north of Spain by the sea and we've been here for the last four months since March so my baby is a girl, she's three months actually her name is Mar, it means sea in like the ocean yeah, everything is connected. Yeah, we're here happy, very happy so I've been fathered, I published my second book I've been working also on a project is called We All Together Overcommit with different professionals, we collect letters motivational letters from people of the adventure actors, singers and we are not doctors but I think we can work to improve the spirit and the mentality of people sick with coronavirus so we collect all these letters and we send it to all the hospitals and it was a very beautiful energy a very beautiful movement that spread all Spain and I feel very happy to not be with your arms closed but take action and work for a better society well, I had a lot of journeys and travels and conferences, congresses, almost all of them were cancelled or postponed so you have to re-adapt to reinvent and now here we are working from home through all the platforms I think we are living amazing times or every crisis is an opportunity and one of the things we learn from this pandemic is how relate is the health of the planet with the health of humanity so it's an amazing time to change the compass to rethink about our objectives and what's the path we are following as humanity so that's my mission in life and I think now it's time to make partnerships and to work all together so I'm working hard, 100% That's fabulous, that's great and you must have a very supportive partner and with a new baby to help you on this mission as she also an adventurer and a traveler like you or do you plan future adventures or missions with her because as you mentioned your expeditions are by yourself and kind of lonely and it's this contact with the world or is that something you're going to subject your family on in the future or how will that work in the future? That's just kind of my personal views I'd like to know how you balance that family and expedition life. Yeah, of course, I think life is an adventure having children is one of the greatest adventure we may have in life not only for three or four years it's a full life adventure. Sometimes I think we have children and we try to, I mean we want to reach our goals through our children but when I've been fathered my daughter has made me feel more sure and strong in my believings and thoughts. If I was fully committed with the Earth conservation now I have a daughter even more I want to leave her a much better place to live. So it's not, having a daughter didn't change my mind but just the opposite it's too much fully commit with my mission, my purpose, my goals in life and of course I feel I'm privileged because I have discovered my purpose, my way I feel my feelings, my thoughts and my ideas are on the same path. So I will take my wife, I will take my children on adventure I'm planning a new one, sailing on a boat and I want to travel with, to make a documentary and I want also to travel with the scientists so we make also an inform like a dossier about all the scientific research we do and I'm planning it for the next year so of course adventure goes on and I will not say goodbye to my old style of life but I will keep on with much more strength. Pat, perfect. That sounds like you've got the great new team that's going to support you and make it that much fun, fun or adventure and because you're doing it together you're much more powerful you're united in your own team. The whole reason I kind of ask you these questions is leading up all those experiences those expeditions that you had in order to do those, to achieve those you have to have a lot of resilience. So we both talk about sustainability and cleaning up our planet and document the things that we see but it absolutely does not matter how much sustainability you have if the very next day a hurricane, a typhoon, a climate catastrophe occurs and wipes out all your sustainability you need to have some resilience that has sustainability ingrained in it in order to weather not only pandemics but to weather all sorts of natural catastrophes and I believe you have that resilience do you think, I know you told me you guys moved during the pandemic to your house and it's by the sea and I'm sure it's a beautiful place to live and a beautiful place to be and be close to nature but has any of that resilience that you had or those experience prepared you for this moment that this pandemic has put you on a spot where you can help others like the letter writing that you talked about or to make your transition to a better world or through this time a lot easier can you tell us about that and maybe give us some wisdoms of what others could take away or learn from who might be struggling during this time? Yeah, yeah, of course after walking around the world you became a really resilient person I've been for three years walking through deserts through mountains and jungles and every kind of different environments from 50 degrees by the day plus and minus 25 degrees at night in places with a lot of humidity, different cultures one of the most difficult things is to be able to adapt to so many different environments and constantly changing environments all kind of countries, all kind of religions of kind of languages of kind of color of skin, everything so you must be able to adapt sometimes the food is not good enough or it's not as healthy as your home country sometimes the water or there are illness I get the chikungunya fever in Chiapas, in Mexico because the mosquito bite me there is no vaccine and there is nothing to do just to your body has to react and it was for during six days I was with 41 fever degrees it was like through hard times and I was people with machetes, with knives tried to assault me several times in some countries of Central America like Honduras, El Salvador I was in a terrorist attack in Bangladesh so I live, it's not only been out of the comfort zone but it's putting your life at risk so those moments are a real check to your beliefs and your thoughts because you are much more comfortable at home watching a movie and eating popcorns with your family but if you go through those moments and you still go on that's because you are deeply committed and you fully believe in what you do so I've been for three years living what I can keep in my pram, in my trolley just a few things so that's one of the learnings you have is you become, you became free, a free person not only your body, not only your belongings but your thoughts and your mind is free so you are able to survive in every kind of environment and with just a few things and I think also to appreciate what we have that's also very important learning we always see the glass, it's only the empty glass but it's helpful of course and I think that's another learning of this pandemic we have to appreciate what we have I mean our health, I mean the nature I mean the company of the friends of the family and of course give nothing for granted at any moment life can make a 180 degrees change so give nothing for granted I appreciate what you have learn to live with a few things and always with a positive mind always to improve what you have not with a negative mind of course you became resilient because I have that adaptability to move from one place to another one and always trying to make a positive impact in the society always I think I have something to share or to teach or to yeah, is from my expeditions and older learnings and experiences so I think just only being conscious of the miracle of being alive that's reason enough to be positive and to try to make a positive impact in society and to feel lucky so of course I resilience is one of the things that the times we are going through is more demanded being resilient, yeah there's so many things that you just mentioned and unpacked that I actually we could go down some rabbit holes because I'm sure there are some exciting stories and adventures and maybe not so exciting some very scary and dangerous ones do you think whether it was the people who try to attack you with the machetes or whether it was the terrorist attack in Bangladesh or that that was the hardest to get through those type of fearful and horrific situations or was the hardest thing to control your mind and to get through your own worst enemies as yourself to realize that you can do it that you're not going to give up that you have that resilience inside of you that this is your mission this is how you're going to get through that maybe that mindset or that belief in yourself that that was probably worse than people with machetes or climate change or people in a terrorist situation yeah for sure the most difficult thing is there is your mental fears and that's the most difficult thing and I always say the most difficult thing for me was to make the first step and it's to face your fears and to fight for your dreams because I'm in a very comfortable way of life I mean I have my job I have my family, your friends, your home but you have to give up everything and you start a journey you don't know if you will come back and that's something you must realize you must face life and say okay we are in a journey through life and this is me, this is what I want and this is my risk and this is my decision that's the first step was the most difficult for me and I have to face and overcome my fears then through the journey sometimes you feel alone, loneliness not physical loneliness but spiritual loneliness is when you think there is no more people sharing your feelings or your meaning of life or your vision of the world because not many people went around the world on food but it's not the important thing it's not the challenge it's why I was doing that it was to document, claim a change it's because I really believe and think global action is needed so sometimes as you said not many, you don't have too much support sometimes and you're putting your life at risk for your beliefs and mentally that's hard and you say what's the meaning of what I'm doing why, why I do what I do what makes me mean and why I do what I do so in those moments you realize that you are doing what you are passionate about when you do what you are passionate about you have like an extra strength passion is the reason to wake up every morning I really believe and it's my passion what I do to explore the planet and to rise awareness for the conservation and the second one is to know that what you are doing is transcend is useful you are making a positive impact in the world that gives you also a lot of strength it's not my personal dream it's not something only for me is you know it's transcend and that those things, those motor give you a lot of strength sometimes, yeah, yeah so that's what I believe that's what gives me a strength that's so beautiful thank you for sharing that is there any on either of your two big expeditions and ventures whether it was the oceans or walking is there any specific story that you would like to share with us where there was a moment or a day of real struggle and you can kind of tell us, okay, God I thought I was gonna give up that day or I thought I was when you had the fever that I couldn't go on or something that you overcame or that you dealt with and maybe a learning that came out of it just in the mental blocks or the mental things that you were confronted with that you overcame is there any story like that? If not, it's okay but is there a short story that you would like to share with us? yeah, of course, I have a lot of stories I even love to share with you yeah, of course for me, you imagine it's a thousand and ninety five days in the open air living in nature in contact with the elements and sleeping under the stars in the Atacama Desert sometimes we used to spend our time connected to a scream and we go to nature and we make pictures as if we were not as if we were not part of the full picture we belong to the picture so when you spend so much time in contact with nature you realize that we all have our instinct we belong to nature and those survivals tools you need also to see the northern lights in Alaska open the door of my tent in the jungle of Ecuador and see all the jungle full of thousand of green little lights of those little animals I don't know the name there are fireflies and light bugs and yeah, there's many different types yeah, so that's amazing and just sleeping under the stars or it's raining or you feel the wind you listen to the birds in the early morning with the sunset and that process goes inside yourself you disconnect from the we could say the serious style of life and you start to connect with your with your animal part with your instinct connected to nature that process is very very interesting and you realize our power the power we have physically, mentally and spiritually and it's very interesting because when you face those situations you discover them if you don't go out of your comfort zone you will never know what we are able to do yeah, so that's a very very important part of for me the most important thing the treasure of my expeditions is people people all over the world people offer me their hands open the door of their houses and share what they have in every country it doesn't matter the nationality the language it doesn't matter at all and usually we watch TV they are all bad news but imagine travel alone on foot is if humanity were bad people I couldn't reach even France but so I can say and it's a very important message for me I want to send back to society humanity is good people is worth the human being is worth and we must be conscious of that because we all together can work for a better future and for me that's great learning that's a beautiful message and a great learning and I really appreciate you sharing that with it I know people need to read your book they need to follow your online journeys and adventures but it's so nice to hear it from your own voice that leads me to really my first question which I believe you've already answered but I want to see if you have a different way of framing it for us or explaining it to us how do you feel about being a global citizen and what would you feel like if all in the future there were no borders no nations no divisions of humanity that held us back from one another in some respects you've already transcended that yourself but can you give us your insights or thoughts and feelings of that but where it would be almost a global right in the future to be part of a global citizenry or global humanity that was all connected yeah for sure I really feel like global citizen I was born in Malaga a little beautiful city in the south of Spain if you don't know it I invite you to visit because it's really beautiful my surnames my first surname is English Dean is from England my second surname is Greek Smolia from Greece so in my blood in my DNA it's the global blood and I live in more than 20 different places so I know what it means not to belong to one place I belong to planet Earth so that's my home that's my house and of course I'm a global citizen and even more after going around the world on food and those expeditions of course there are there are borders there are walls there are limitations I think there are geographical borders they will be exist forever I mean like in ocean well of course Pangea will evolve and maybe in 1000 years and more it will change but we've got oceans we've got mountains we've got things that will exist forever but we've got also physical borders I mean it's very every one of us have different limits what it's interesting is to know them and to work to overcome them there are also political borders and limitations and what I truly believe is that we must work to connect people and not to refuse what is different I mean it's okay I respect the essence of every culture and I think that's what we should do the indigene people the aboriginal from Australia the schema from Alaska and the North Pole but we must respect not refuse what is different and from that point of view I think we should abolish those kind of borders as we belong to the planet we should be free to travel from one place to another one I believe there is only one race one human race and there is only one home is the planet Earth and I really feel the planet as a living being where everything is connected the oceans, the air, the land, the forest the animals, the biodiversity so that's my point of view I think the limits or in that way from that point of view the political borders should be abolished but it takes time it's not easy it requires hard work, education and it's not easy because there are a lot of components and circumstances but through my journeys the biggest border or the biggest limitation I've discovered is the mental borders I think we have the power to create reality to build the future and to write history that's what I really believe that doesn't matter not the geographical, not the physical not the political but the mental borders are the most important things and we have that power and as now we are living a crisis moment as opportunity moment we have the future in our hands and we have that power to build that future we want and to write those pages of history and it's just a question of mentality and of ideas Yeah, I totally agree I'm in alignment with you and those borders are really ones that we've created and most of them are in our mind that we just need to dispel there as you did your expeditions you were truly living as a nomad and a global citizen you went not only all the continents but you just really you were everywhere went to a lot of different places did you feel that since you'd already broken the wall or the border in your mind that there was any huge difficulties to have access or to move or to interact with different nations and borders that maybe had or have restrictions or was there any difficulties or did you realize once you committed and you were there that it's all doable that we can interact with everybody? Well, there are borders I went, I walked through four continents I'm 31 countries, so it's many many borders and some kind of borders are easy to cross there is not too much difference I mean, for example, in the European Union then another kind of borders like from Peru and Bolivia it's easy to cross there are much similar from one culture to another one but then there are a big difference for example, when you want to cross from Indonesia to Australia you came from one very busy, noisy and cheap and continent and suddenly you jump into the Commonwealth, Australia is very everything is clean, polite, street, more expensive so another different is from Mexico to the United States there isn't a lot of people who want to go to the United States so there are difference in that kind of borders and every time I cross a border I used to take a picture, selfie to myself to upload in the social nets and in internet to demonstrate I've gone through that border walking on foot one day I had a problem well, I had more problems but I came to my mind one day I was crossing the border between Armenia and Iran Iran is a very different country from the Western Europe the army and the religion and politics is something not to talk about some people from the army watch me taking that picture and I was almost about to finish my expedition on jail in jail because of a spy they thought I was a spy so it was a very difficult moment one hour they making calls I showed them my passport with all the stamps from different countries I showed them also news on the newspaper from different countries well, in that moment you realize how important is the language because I didn't speak Farsi they didn't speak Spanish or English so communication was difficult thanks to that I think they let me go after one hour but it was difficult moments I thought my expedition ended and I was to finish in jail so you realize the borders are special places just to go through as fast as possible just to make your democracy and go even more when you travel on foot that you must go through the borders in the early morning so you have time enough to reach a safe place to spend the night because if you cross at the last hour or the last time of the day you will not go too far and you have to set your tent in the border and sometimes there are not very safe places or the best place to spend the night so yeah there was a lot of learnings that you had there thank you for sharing that that is really interesting and I'm glad that you made it through and you had the records and the wherewithal to get through those and that they were intelligent enough to see of your grand mission and what you were doing I want to move away from more of your inner struggles your inner learnings and what's made you resilient and brought you to this place and move more into now how your learnings on these expeditions of what you saw and documented on climate change on the climate crisis on what pollutions and things were occurring in different places and if in all these travels so the question is if all these travels all these continents all these city, states, nations, countries that you traveled across could you say that there's a big takeaway or understanding of what you saw that all humanity is dealing with in the climate crisis the same types of pollution or the same types of destruction is there something that is unified in that or is it different in every place you go and what are the learnings that you received what did you document say these are some big problems that we're faced with and I want to bring those to the surface so that you guys are aware Yeah, well I don't want to make a catastrophic list because everywhere I've been through and when you go walking is the best means of transport to document the real estate of the environment and the places you go through so every place has different issues is of course the very nice trade it's much more different from the Gibraltar Strait or the Bismarck Sea on the Papua Island also the environment from Spain is much more different from the jungles in India but I could say there is a big problem big issue for all the planet is the biodiversity loss there are scientific documents from the United Nations the United Nations that in the last 50 years we have lost more than 60% of the biodiversity of the world it's terrifying and that's something we are struggling and we should change so many things in a so fast way because we are going in the very wrong way then another thing is the global warming global warming because of the fossil fuels like petroleum so it's causing the high temperatures the North Pole, the glaciers are melting I've seen with my own eyes in the North Pole over the North Cycle Pole in very nice trade the skimos are building walls to stop the waves of the ocean in winter very nice trade used to be frozen you could go walking from Alaska to Russia and come back but now things are changing so biodiversity loss global warming and pollution for me those are the three big risk threats we are going through and pollution I mean not only the atmosphere the hydroxycarbon is the name I mean also the plastics I mean also the chemical in the rivers, in the sea so those are the three big problems and of course we are losing all the forest, the trees I don't want to make it like a catastrophic list but I think those are the three big problems biodiversity loss, the global warming and the pollution so of course there are solutions we could use renewable energies, solar, eolic we can also use an economy model based on sustainable, certified waves of producing things and of course responsible consumerism I think those three things are basic how, education, law the law is very important on of course innovation so we've got the problem we've got the solution and we've got the tools great, we only need the ambition that's absolutely super and it brings me nicely to my most difficult question it's the burning question WTF and it's not the swear word it's what's the future for you, so you've seen the entire planet you've seen everything you've swam the oceans, you've walked it what's the future? the future is what we want to make of it that's the future we've got the ability and we've got the tools and we've got the finance and we've got everything to change the future so if we keep on doing things as we are currently doing not good times are coming we will go through hard times but the future is what we want to so I encourage all the people to do simple change in their style of life in their daily lives because not everybody around the world is concerned and is commit with the global warming and the nature in fact, people used to have like a consumerism and watching TV and having a car and a big house and you know that kind of style of life but so I encourage people it's about consciousness we are absolutely disconnected we are disconnected from nature and from ourselves we must connect again and that's a consciousness problem and that's an education thing we watch nature as if we watch a picture as I said before, we belong to the picture what we make to nature we are making to ourselves so the planet home, the planet earth, planet water is our home what we make to the planet, we are making to ourselves we live as if we have two and a half planets some countries they live with even five planets America, yep you know the overshooting day it's maybe in July we live as if the natural resource were endless and that's not the way to act so I think we must be conscious and the future is what we want to build that's what I believe not as a society and as a single person we have the power to build the future to create that reality thank you for that and I specifically, you didn't specifically answer for yourself, what's the future? but you did in your past not only in your biography and how you live and how you see the world you're leaving the planet better than you found it you're cleaning it up you're living within your planetary global footprint you're part of our planet and you also said it so eloquently as we are a part of nature we're, and I say this a lot in my podcast but also when I speak as we need to become homosymbiosis, a part of a symbiotic earth that we're interconnected with our planet we're interconnected with other species and nature and that our earth's biome is also very similar to our own body biome and those two things work in harmony together and when they not in harmony that's when we have pandemics, we get sick that's when things and problems occur that really disrupt how we live in the future so I'm totally in alignment with you the other thing is, and I say this a lot which also came out in what you said and I'm an optimist, I'm very positive but we're treating our earth like an open sewer where we're shitting and polluting everywhere we're just dumping stuff into our world and our planet at will but if you look at our world from outer space and you've looked at it on the ground not from outer space there is no throw away whether it's greenhouse gas emissions, fossil fuels whether it's plastic pollution whether it's any kind of thing that we throw away or we emit, it doesn't go anywhere it remains here, we need to think there is no throw away so what we create, we need to really make sure that it's in a circular cycle that it doesn't do us harm it doesn't do our planet harm because eventually, if not it's gonna come back to bite us in the ass and it's also going to be very detrimental to our own health and our own problems because we created it there's no one else to blame but us so I would really like to know if there are some sustainable take-aways some ways that you feel are some tools and tips and tricks that you could depart words of wisdoms to an individual to a business, to innovators of where they need to look what they should do how they start with themselves and then spread that to somewhere else if there's anything specific you mentioned the three pillars but I think there's something that's more individual that maybe you could depart or help them with to maybe make them better or empower our listeners more with what they could do as an individual yeah, I always encourage people to spend more time in nature if you love nature, spend more time in nature just as simple as that nature is the master she will teach you everything you need everything is in nature, everything so I encourage people to spend more time in nature once you do that everything will come like a chain your mind will change but that's the sometimes we watch or we think nature is an uncomfortable place of course, nature is not only a Walt Disney world it's also a row, it's hard, it's tough nature has both sides but that's what I think is full of teachings and learnings so spend more time in nature watch the trees, watch the birds, watch the animals we are not so far from them they are behavior is not so different they also have relationships they also have a language they also have sexual needs they also eat, they go hunting they need to rest, they have illness we are not so different from them then of course in our daily lives we can make changes of course try to go walking, try to go by bicycle or use a public mean of transport something is not so polluting to the atmosphere or to the earth what happens that if you want to go walking it means you must own your time because when you go walking you need more time but when you go walking it's not only important the destination but it's all the way and that's life about life is about walk all the way and all the things you live and you learn and the people you meet and when you go walking there is no need to walk around the world but when you go walking to any place what you discover is the insects the sun, the stars, the wind what you enable you with you enjoy all the way and walking is the best way to because you throw oxygen to your mind you see your ideas are more clear all the things connect deep inside your brain you see things much more in a better way and in a more clear way than just being sitting on a car or in a chair every day of course try to reduce what you consume I mean like a responsible consumerism and what you buy try to do as natural as possible free of plastics carry your bags from home try to buy things certified by sustainable stamps or I mean like for example sustainable fish coming from a sustainable fishery I encourage people to go vegetarian or to go vegan of course because there is a great problem with the forest, with the well there is a documentary there's the Causus Piracy I think everybody know it but I encourage people to buy things coming for example when I remember when I meet you in the COP25 I talk to you about my shoes they are made from plastics and fishery nets taken from the ocean that kind of things the fashion company is the second most polluting of the world so there is a real problem with fashion with clothes there are many many things and nowadays there are studies that demonstrate that the most sustainable companies are more efficient and will survive in the long term nowadays we are changing our mind and a company that doesn't make a positive impact in society will go through hard times because they have to demonstrate why they are in the market if you don't make a positive impact if you are not purpose driving people will ask you why you are in the market so now it's time also for changing for that mentality for the companies and of course also for the governments now we're with the social development goals from the United Nations it seems they are in the second because the coronavirus pandemic is in all the media in all the screens in all the papers but we don't we don't much forget that after the coronavirus pandemic is the economical crisis but even bigger is the climate change way and we must change from the short term to the long term we must change that mentality we have to make to have a broad mind we don't live in just one meter of the earth we live in the full earth and what we do here is connected what is happening in 1,000 kilometers and what you eat where does it come from it comes from more than 1,000 kilometers and what's your clothes made of and who make them we must be conscious of that so I encourage people to change from short term to long term to have a sustainable mentality and to work all together I think one of the lessons of the times we are going through is the cooperation and collaboration is the end we talk about before the almost symbiosis symbiosis symbiotic or symbiotic yeah so I think that's the moment for that stop competence stop the Darwin theory it's okay there are mutations there are things happening in the evolution but the real evolution is through collaboration and cooperation this neo-Darwinism, neoliberalism survival of the fittest only the strong survive natural selection that's all bullshit it doesn't exist it's not real those things are ones that are made up and they don't come from Darwin Darwin's original theory is that we're all co-operate that we're all evolving together a species and that twist on the way that only the strong survive that only through competition that it's natural selection that is really a thing that's come back to bite us in the ass that's hurt us that hasn't made us more efficient as businesses it's made us cheapen products which cheapens life if you cheapen food you cheapen life if you cheapen the way you produce a product or that and it pollutes rivers and it harms human health and it harms our environment then you're actually cheapening life for short-term profitable capitalistic gains and that is a very short-term goal or short-term thing that will always come back to hurt humanity and our world in the long run so I'm full alignment with you as an advocate for the sustainable development goals I strongly believe that this is a great plan to get us nicely to December 2030 I also know that right now throughout the world whether it's the pandemic or Black Lives Matters or any Brexit or political things going on in the world that right now are civilization frameworks that we're operating in that we're experiencing wherever we live in this world are not really working for everyone there's the Trump-pocalypse the Bolsonaro's the Putin's, the Shea's the Duarte's, the Erdogans there's all, there's the Brexits there's all these different agendas and things going on in the world they're none of them are unified and none of them are a global plan for us all and just one example one decision that Bolsonaro makes in Brazil to let the rainforest burn affect us all over the world whether Spain or Germany or the US and so that leads me to my question what does a world that works for everyone look like for you, Nacho? Yeah As I walk around the world I imagine the mind is like an onion and you peel all the layers all the layers so you take off all the layers finally you reach the essence what I found there what I found there is love love is the answer to every problem and it doesn't change doesn't matter the country doesn't matter the age we are living doesn't matter the nationality love is the answer but I love as a way of being in the world as a way of love over the differences to treat others, to treat nature to treat ourselves if you don't love yourself it's not possible to love the world surround you so but it's like it's like you have to make a step to reach that point of consciousness so for me that's the answer it works all over the world and in every country doesn't matter the border doesn't matter the differences and for me that's the answer love is the answer beautiful you've given us some fabulous answers during our conversations today and not only connect to nature and love but it's also this golden rule treat people and planet how you would like to be treated to love yourself and to leave the planet better than we found it to clean it up that connection to nature that you've advocated that we get out and we connect ourselves with our nature wherever we are whether we live in a city or not to just get out and take a walk what happens for a lot of people is not only do you feel that reconnection when you do that but you also start to notice not just the good things but you start to notice the ugly things and eventually when you walk by so much plastic or cigarette butts or so much graffiti or so much destruction you love it so much that you decide to clean it up or make it better because you say you know this is my neighborhood or this is my forest or this is my place where I'm walking and actually I don't just want it to be nice and clean inside my home I'd like it to be nice and clean outside and you start to care and you start to nurture that area and clean it up and capture not only emissions but plastic and pollution and make sure that it's a beautiful place to live in and so naturally those are things that over time happen and it's a change that happens with each of us I really thank you for your time for sharing the wisdom Nacho you are an inspiration to me a hero for our planet and I hope that our paths cross and we connect many many more times and we can collaborate on many things I encourage all my listeners to push and promote and help you to help us to make our planet better and to get your mission out there to the world and I'll do the best I can to hook you up with any agency and connection I can to push your mission further thank you so much for your time and if there's anything else you'd like to tell us before I say goodbye this is your chance to depart that message Thank you Mark, it's a really true privilege for me I would like to finish with one tale maybe you heard about it before is the two caves tale, you know? I haven't heard about it I don't think it's a world where there are two caves in one cave it's people living, it's conscious people living, clean people who is worried and concerned about others about nature, the environment they live in the other cave, it's people dirty they don't care about others when they have to go to toilet they even don't go out of the cave so when everything is a mess they decide to move to another cave now the moment, the current moment we are living there are no more caves to move so we have to change our mind and care the cave, the place, the environment where we live so we must change the mind, the mentality there is no more me and you now it's time for us there is no one country, another country it's time to talk about planet Earth, our home so that's the change to be conscious that I encourage everybody to do and to go forward that's my final message and I really appreciate this time this conversation with you I think we have to make another conversation because I have a lot of questions for you I appreciate and hope there is a new meeting coming soon of course and as you get your books in English then I would love to read them and then we can talk about them as well and go into another conversation I would love to have you on the show again I stalk and follow you online regardless and I know we're connected and I wanna make sure that you continue your wonderful mission thank you so much Nacho you have a wonderful day and thanks for your time, thanks thank you Marc, see you